Spoilers With Speculation

[The Morning Star]

11 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

Wasn't he differentiating between the 2 spellings (Cas/Cass) when he said 'or'?

But either way this doesn't mean the character of Cas we've always had will still be around. It could mean AU Cas, or some other version. I think all we can take from this is that the actor Misha still has a job on the show. Who / what he will be playing is another matter.

The other thing to bear in mind is that, apart from the SD ep - which is nearly certain to be a standalone/fantasy/in their heads type of ep - nothing of s13 is yet written. The writers are barely back at work. So the actors really don't know much at this point.

Collins has a habit of conveying important information in a very under the radar and inconspicuous manner.

for example I recall in one of his tweets or interviews right before the finale, he said and I'm quoting the writers are going to open a whole new universe of possibilities.

 

Based on his history, I say it's not out of question to assume the sudden use of Cas (or Cas) was a sneaky way for him to say I will either play prime Cas or Alternate Cas when the show returns and he isn't sure which way they will go.

 

He also said something about a transformation that I've been trying to figure out the possibility he's referring to.

[Wayward Son]

7 minutes ago, The Morning Star said:

Collins has a habit of conveying important information in a very under the radar and inconspicuous manner.

for example I recall in one of his tweets or interviews right before the finale, he said and I'm quoting the writers are going to open a whole new universe of possibilities.

 

Based on his history, I say it's not out of question to assume the sudden use of Cas (or Cas) was a sneaky way for him to say I will either play prime Cas or Alternate Cas when the show returns and he isn't sure which way they will go.

 

He also said something about a transformation that I've been trying to figure out the possibility he's referring to.

Agreed! There are multiple ways of interpreting that tweet! He could be simply referring to the spelling controversary amongst the fandom, or it could be a way of distinguishing between our Cass and Alt!Cas.

 

Disclaimer: Although I personally prefer to spell it as Cas, since the shows official spelling is Cass I'd imagine if he was creating a way of telling the two a part he'd used Cass for our Cas and Cas for Alt!Cas.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Wayward Son

[The Morning Star]

4 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Agreed! There are multiple ways of interpreting that tweet! He could be simply referring to the spelling controversary amongst the fandom, or it could be a way of distinguishing between our Cass and Alt!Cas.

 

Disclaimer: Although I personally prefer to spell it as Cas, since the shows official spelling is Cass I'd imagine if he was creating a way of telling the two a part he'd used Cass for our Cas and Cas for Alt!Cas.

I think it may well be both.

He could've just intelligently used that "dispute" in this context.

[Jonesy]

20 minutes ago, The Morning Star said:

Collins has a habit of conveying important information in a very under the radar and inconspicuous manner.

for example I recall in one of his tweets or interviews right before the finale, he said and I'm quoting the writers are going to open a whole new universe of possibilities.

 

Based on his history, I say it's not out of question to assume the sudden use of Cas (or Cas) was a sneaky way for him to say I will either play prime Cas or Alternate Cas when the show returns and he isn't sure which way they will go.

 

He also said something about a transformation that I've been trying to figure out the possibility he's referring to.

Misha was clearly talking about the spelling with his first tweet--that's been a long running joke with his twitter followers.  BUT the transformation thing--now there is were we have a question mark.  That's open to debate for sure.  Cas is back and has a future--but in what way?  

17 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Agreed! There are multiple ways of interpreting that tweet! He could be simply referring to the spelling controversary amongst the fandom, or it could be a way of distinguishing between our Cass and Alt!Cas.

 

Disclaimer: Although I personally prefer to spell it as Cas, since the shows official spelling is Cass I'd imagine if he was creating a way of telling the two a part he'd used Cass for our Cas and Cas for Alt!Cas.

Seriously that is stretching it--I follow him, he's not that sneaky about things...he was referring to the spelling thing, they joke about that on his twitter.  Misha has done this before with the spelling.

 

Now with transformation--in his panel, Misha says Cas is transformed by death...not au Cas.  So Cas is back transformed.  Again he says Cas is back.  You may have some right to worry about what transformed Cas is like but he is back.

[The Morning Star]

5 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Misha was clearly talking about the spelling with his first tweet--that's been a long running joke with his twitter followers.  BUT the transformation thing--now there is were we have a question mark.  That's open to debate for sure.  Cas is back and has a future--but in what way?  

I don't want to imply that you're wrong and I'm right however, I like to keep an open mind as I've seen Collins drop major info like that before.

That said, by the same token, I maybe looking too much into something that's just a joke....

 

Niether of us can really prove it either way.

Edited May 22, 2017 by The Morning Star

[Jonesy]

4 minutes ago, The Morning Star said:

I don't want to imply that you're wrong and I'm right however, I like to keep an open mind as I've seen Collins drop major info like that before.

That said, by the same token, I maybe looking too much into something that's just a joke....

 

Niether of us can really prove it either way.

Yes, no need to argue.  We'll see in the end--I'm pretty sure especially when you add Misha's panel too that Cas's back.  But yes neither of us can totally prove it now.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Jakes

[The Morning Star]

2 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Yes, no need to argue.  We'll see in the end--I'm pretty sure especially when you add Misha's panel too that Cas's back.  But yes neither of us can totally prove it now.

Oh I'm sure we will have Castiel back in one form or another.

I'm just not sure which Castiel and in what form.

[CluelessDrifter]

14 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Misha was clearly talking about the spelling with his first tweet--that's been a long running joke with his twitter followers.  BUT the transformation thing--now there is were we have a question mark.  That's open to debate for sure.  Cas is back and has a future--but in what way?  

Seriously that is stretching it--I follow him, he's not that sneaky about things...he was referring to the spelling thing, they joke about that on his twitter.  Misha has done this before with the spelling.

 

Now with transformation--in his panel, Misha says Cas is transformed by death...not au Cas.  So Cas is back transformed.  Again he says Cas is back.  You may have some right to worry about what transformed Cas is like but he is back.

I don't really see the point in arguing about something that hasn't happened yet, but I will say that my impression of his panel is that: 1) Misha will be back in Season 13 (He says 'I'); 2) There will be some kind of transformation in Castiel as a result of his death; 3) that Cas "or a version" of Cas will be back, and then Misha starts talking about the AU.  Just some things I noticed.  Guess we'll find out what's really happening in October.  :)

Edited May 22, 2017 by CluelessDrifter

[Jonesy]

3 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

I don't really see the point in arguing about something that hasn't happened yet, but I will say that my impression of his panel is that: 1) Misha will be back in Season 13 (He says 'I'); 2) There will be some kind of transformation in Castiel as a result of his death; 3) that Cas "or a version" of Cas will be back, and then Misha starts talking about the AU.  Just some things I noticed.  Guess we'll find out what's really happening in October.  :)

That's basically what I saw too.

[Geordiegirl1967]

57 minutes ago, Jakes said:

He says in his panel that Cas is transformed and changed by his death

Hmmm. That doesn't sound like the same Cas to me.

[SueB]

I think Misha knows that AU!Cas is going to be problematic if that's all we get. But he's also in a VERY difficult situation in terms of what he can/cannot say.  So, I think J2 were like 'fuck it', we'll say you are back as an 'oops' to take THAT worry (your continued existence on the show) off the table.  But Misha can 'salvage keeping it secret' with the whole 'in what form' debate.  First, it'll keep fans guessing so Dabb gets a shot at retaining fans with how well he pulls off the S13 premiere.  Second, it lets them know something big is up so maybe peak interest.  

But, in addition to the apple juice influence, all of JIBCON was a love letter to Misha from the boys.  JIBCON has always had more Misha but their love for the guy was omnipresent IMO. OTOH was Crowley or Mark Shepard even discussed in absentia? 

[Jonesy]

8 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

Hmmm. That doesn't sound like the same Cas to me.

It's Cas but the degree of change is the question. 

4 minutes ago, SueB said:

I think Misha knows that AU!Cas is going to be problematic if that's all we get. But he's also in a VERY difficult situation in terms of what he can/cannot say.  So, I think J2 were like 'fuck it', we'll say you are back as an 'oops' to take THAT worry (your continued existence on the show) off the table.  But Misha can 'salvage keeping it secret' with the whole 'in what form' debate.  First, it'll keep fans guessing so Dabb gets a shot at retaining fans with how well he pulls off the S13 premiere.  Second, it lets them know something big is up so maybe peak interest.  

But, in addition to the apple juice influence, all of JIBCON was a love letter to Misha from the boys.  JIBCON has always had more Misha but their love for the guy was omnipresent IMO. OTOH was Crowley or Mark Shepard even discussed in absentia? 

This sounds logical--I do think Jared intentionally spilled his "mistake."

[Morrigan2575]

I think what you're going to get is Cas Transformed by his death AND AU Cas. I don't think for a minute they won't play with Doom World.

I aslo think we'll have a parallel story to start with. Sam/Dean/Lil Luci n Real World with Mary/Lucifer/Bobby and AU Cas in Doom World (similar to S7 Sam's Summer Vacation and Dean's time in Purgatory flashbacks).

I'm guessing, that Lil Luci will bring Cas back, probably as a slave/acolyte and Dean/Sam will need to break through the spell/brainwashing to free Cas.

[DJG1122]

14 hours ago, SueB said:

 

Mark's on the Creation schedule through 2017 and into 2018 

So, Mark not at JIBCon is not related.  However BOTH Mark & Ruth will be at the Con in two weeks in Phoenix (I think it's Phoenix). AWKWARD.  

Actually, the ONE con that is a portent of who is on the show is San Diego Comic Con. That is specifically about teasing the next year.  This year it's back to the third week of July, so hopefully we'll get a sizzle real this year.  

Would you keep us posted with anything you hear? I really like both Crowley and Rowena. Thanks

[goldy]

8 minutes ago, DJG1122 said:

Would you keep us posted with anything you hear? I really like both Crowley and Rowena. Thanks

There is a Con Schedule posted here: http://ibelieveinthelittletreetopper.tumblr.com/post/158706568958/hiatus-con-schedule

[DittyDotDot]

22 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I think what you're going to get is Cas Transformed by his death AND AU Cas. I don't think for a minute they won't play with Doom World.

I aslo think we'll have a parallel story to start with. Sam/Dean/Lil Luci n Real World with Mary/Lucifer/Bobby and AU Cas in Doom World (similar to S7 Sam's Summer Vacation and Dean's time in Purgatory flashbacks).

I'm guessing, that Lil Luci will bring Cas back, probably as a slave/acolyte and Dean/Sam will need to break through the spell/brainwashing to free Cas.

This is pretty much my thinking except I hadn't thought about the spawn "brainwashing" Cass. Now that I have, I can't unthink it. ;)

I hope alternate universe Cass will not be played by Misha; could be Cass is in Claire in the alternate universe. That would be a way to mess with the audience's expectations.

[SueB]

Random thought --- those giant spires, sure LOOKED like Angel Blades on steroids.  Wouldn't it be fun (although impossible) if the Angels in the AU were their TRUE size (you know the size of a Chrysler Building)?  

I know, not feasible, but those spires look like the blades of long dead BIG Angels (think Statue of Liberty in original Planet of the Apes).

PLEASE NOTE: This is just random CRACK!thoughts....

Edited May 22, 2017 by SueB

[Jonesy]

12 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

This is pretty much my thinking except I hadn't thought about the spawn "brainwashing" Cass. Now that I have, I can't unthink it. ;)

I hope alternate universe Cass will not be played by Misha; could be Cass is in Claire in the alternate universe. That would be a way to mess with the audience's expectations.

Yes--I agree with you both...I expect to see both real Cas transformed somewhat AND AU Cas.  I could see real Cas being brainwashed for a while as a possibility.

 

And I actually would find it perfect to have Misha play both Cas's with different personalities to a degree.

[Idahoforspn]

3 minutes ago, Jakes said:

  I could see real Cas being brainwashed for a while as a possibility.

 

 

We just had a brainwashed Mary. I would like to see a little more originality personally.

[Jonesy]

3 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

We just had a brainwashed Mary. I would like to see a little more originality personally.

Actually this would be more mind control from a super power being versus human brainwashing--though I see your point.  But meh, it wouldn't bother me personally.

[DJG1122]

39 minutes ago, goldy said:

There is a Con Schedule posted here: http://ibelieveinthelittletreetopper.tumblr.com/post/158706568958/hiatus-con-schedule

Thanks

[DittyDotDot]

6 minutes ago, Jakes said:

And I actually would find it perfect to have Misha play both Cas's with different personalities to a degree.

I don't mean to suggest Misha couldn't do both, just that having someone else play the alternate version wouldn't be expected and would be a way to have a little fun with the storyline. They could play around with the notion of what could've happened, but didn't. 

And now I think I might understand why Dabb was saying the finale would be very meta. Only takes me two or three days sometimes. ;)

[MysteryGuest]

I love Misha and I love Cas, and I'm very glad he'll be back next season.  But I think he needs to come back transformed a bit.  He's been really depressed and questioning of his self worth for the past few seasons, and it's become difficult to watch for me.  His angel powers come and go based on plot need, which is annoying.  I know they use his powers to get them out of a sticky plot issue, but then when big things happen to characters (like Charlie, for example), he's shown as completely inept.  I know that powering him up takes away a lot of the drama, since Cas can just fix everything with the touch of a hand.  So maybe powering him down is the answer.  I'm not sure what they're going to do, but Misha deserves better than what he's had recently.

[Geordiegirl1967]

2 hours ago, SueB said:

But, in addition to the apple juice influence, all of JIBCON was a love letter to Misha from the boys.  JIBCON has always had more Misha but their love for the guy was omnipresent IMO. OTOH was Crowley or Mark Shepard even discussed in absentia? 

Really? Because I have watched most of the main panels and it is the bond between Jared and Jensen that came shining through to me; Their description of their friendship, the reports of Jared taking care of Jensen when he got upset during the autos, the hug during that last goodbye to the fans, Jensen talking to Jared's kids on FaceTime etc etc. It was actually pretty moving I thought. Because of Jared's breakdown just before JIB a couple of years ago (and Gen's sisters terrible accident that caused them to have to rush home a couple of years before that) I think there is always an element of concern / worry / bad memories mixed with the good for Jared and Jensen at this con - which seems to make them open up more. Last year we had the beautiful scene between Jared and Jensen during the closing ceremony and this year was similar. 

Of course I am not trying to say they don't get on really well with Misha. They clearly do (the story of them sharing a house that was too small for a night was funny). And the joint MC/JP and MC/JA panels were great fun. But 'JIB was a lover letter from Js to Misha'? That wasn't my interpretation of the con. YMMV

(actually this probably belongs in the appearances thread, but as it is hiatus.....)

11 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

love Misha and I love Cas, and I'm very glad he'll be back next season.  But I think he needs to come back transformed a bit.  He's been really depressed and questioning of his self worth for the past few seasons, and it's become difficult to watch for me.  His angel powers come and go based on plot need, which is annoying.  I know they use his powers to get them out of a sticky plot issue, but then when big things happen to characters (like Charlie, for example), he's shown as completely inept.  I know that powering him up takes away a lot of the drama, since Cas can just fix everything with the touch of a hand

I don't know what the answer is if they are not going to let his death stick to be honest. They have been faced with this problem re Cas for years and haven't come up with a way of addressing it yet.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Geordiegirl1967

[rue721]

Is there a mythos-based reason to think that AU!Cas would have Jimmy as a vessel? I mean, was Jimmy and his direct line the only vessel that Cas could use or stay in? I honestly don't remember back to when Cas was first introduced and they were talking about how/why he chose Jimmy.

Otherwise, I would think that it would be a total fluke if Cas were in Jimmy again. In general, I think it would be more likely that Misha Collins would be around playing Cas's vessel than Cas himself? Since Misha "looks like" Cas's vessel, but not like Cas himself?

I also don't think it's definitive that "our" Cas will be back. IMO in the con video, Misha seemed to me to say definitively that *he,* the actor, would still be on the show next year -- and that we will be seeing some version of Cas next year, too. But IMO he actually emphasized that this death isn't meaningless, that it will mark a change in the role. Whether that's because he's going to be playing AU!Cas or the vessel of some other angel or Jimmy or what, I don't know -- and it is very possible that he just meant that he'd be playing our!Cas but emotionally/psychologically different somehow. But I do think that he was emphasizing both that he would continue to be on the show and that Cas *will* have undergone a transformative change.

[auntvi]

2 minutes ago, rue721 said:

But I do think that he was emphasizing both that he would continue to be on the show and that Cas *will* have undergone a transformative change.

I don't know how they can get away with saying "nevermind, Cas isn't dead." Not after he flashed out and left his scorched wings on the ground. I hope they don't do it. This season's version is so watered down from the original Cas, I think it would be a lot more interesting to see an alt-Cas. JMO

[Jonesy]

8 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Is there a mythos-based reason to think that AU!Cas would have Jimmy as a vessel? I mean, was Jimmy and his direct line the only vessel that Cas could use or stay in? I honestly don't remember back to when Cas was first introduced and they were talking about how/why he chose Jimmy.

Otherwise, I would think that it would be a total fluke if Cas were in Jimmy again. In general, I think it would be more likely that Misha Collins would be around playing Cas's vessel than Cas himself? Since Misha "looks like" Cas's vessel, but not like Cas himself?

I also don't think it's definitive that "our" Cas will be back. IMO in the con video, Misha seemed to me to say definitively that *he,* the actor, would still be on the show next year -- and that we will be seeing some version of Cas next year, too. But IMO he actually emphasized that this death isn't meaningless, that it will mark a change in the role. Whether that's because he's going to be playing AU!Cas or the vessel of some other angel or Jimmy or what, I don't know -- and it is very possible that he just meant that he'd be playing our!Cas but emotionally/psychologically different somehow. But I do think that he was emphasizing both that he would continue to be on the show and that Cas *will* have undergone a transformative change.

He was saying the Cas we know will be back and also there may some AU possibilities.  Cas will be changed but he's talking about the original Cas being back.  How much change, is not clear.

[DittyDotDot]

4 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Is there a mythos-based reason to think that AU!Cas would have Jimmy as a vessel? I mean, was Jimmy and his direct line the only vessel that Cas could use or stay in? I honestly don't remember back to when Cas was first introduced and they were talking about how/why he chose Jimmy.

Vessels are supposed to run in bloodlines. Cass says that it's not easy to find a suitable vessel when he first was introduced in S4 and the reason Cass could possess Claire was supposed to be because she was Jimmy's daughter. They used to be very careful in casting to make sure the same angel ended up in a vessel that would be believable in the same bloodline. . Although, the angels falling kinda nuked that idea because in S9 not all vessels were strong enough, but it didn't seem to matter if they were in the right bloodline.

[Jonesy]

9 minutes ago, auntvi said:

I don't know how they can get away with saying "nevermind, Cas isn't dead." Not after he flashed out and left his scorched wings on the ground. I hope they don't do it. This season's version is so watered down from the original Cas, I think it would be a lot more interesting to see an alt-Cas. JMO

Tons will LOVE getting Cas back.  PLUS I absolutely loved a bunch of Cas this year with the show having Cas and Winchesters show how strong their loyalty and love for each other is this year.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Jakes

[Bessie]

3 minutes ago, auntvi said:

This season's version is so watered down from the original Cas, I think it would be a lot more interesting to see an alt-Cas.

Agreed. I'd like to see them explore altCas and leave regular cas alone for awhile. There are a lot of avenues they can explore with this scenario, whereas the writers seem unimaginative when it comes to regular Cas. 

[DittyDotDot]

4 minutes ago, auntvi said:

I don't know how they can get away with saying "nevermind, Cas isn't dead." Not after he flashed out and left his scorched wings on the ground. I hope they don't do it. This season's version is so watered down from the original Cas, I think it would be a lot more interesting to see an alt-Cas. JMO

I think we're going to see both, an alternate Cass and the Cass we already know. Personally, I'm not adverse to an alternate Cass I just think it's pretty poor to take all the history of who Cass actually is and replace him with another Cass who doesn't have that history just because they don't know what to do with current Cass. I'd prefer they try to get our Cass out of the corner they've written him into rather than just closing the door and starting over in a completely different room. 

[Geordiegirl1967]

15 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Vessels are supposed to run in bloodlines.

This is true of the archangels but not so much for lesser angels. When they fell they were pretty much taking anyone who'd say yes. Some were strong enough. Some got burnt out pretty quickly. But there's been no canon on ordinary angels needing specific 'true' vessels. 

I think it'd be a huge stretch of credulity if AU Cas had chosen same vessel i.e. Jimmy. In our world Cas took Jimmy as a vessel so he could communicate with Dean and persuade him to play his role in the apocalypse. No Dean or Sam, no need for hell rescue. So Cas the angels history on the AU earth would be vastly different. 

Edited May 22, 2017 by Geordiegirl1967

[rue721]

It seems redundant to me to kill him just to resurrect him. If they were just going to bring back Cas Original Flavor, why not do what they did with Mary and leave him alive but in peril at the end of the episode? I think they are planning on a major transformation, and some kind of spiritual death *at least.*

It also seems redundant AND kind of maddeningly pointless to me to kill Our!Cas just to bring in a replacement. Especially if the replacement is so similar to our!Cas that he's even in the same vessel -- except with none of the same history, relationships, or growth that Our!Cas has to actually make him interesting, natch.

Just now, Geordiegirl1967 said:

I think it'd be a huge stretch of credulity if AU Cas had chosen same vessel i.e. Jimmy. In our works Cas took Jimmy as a vessel so he could communicate with Dean and persuade him to play his role in the apocalypse. No Dean or Sam, no need for hell rescue. So Cas the angels history on the AU earth would be vastly different. 

Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's already going to be somewhat of a fluke if Jimmy (and Claire) even exist.

[Wayward Son]

Originally all Angels had a particular vessel line and it was stated in season 4 that the Novak line were the ideal line for Castiel. The whole "strong enough" mythology was a retcon introduced by Carver in season 9. 

[CluelessDrifter]

6 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

I think it'd be a huge stretch of credulity if AU Cas had chosen same vessel i.e. Jimmy. In our world Cas took Jimmy as a vessel so he could communicate with Dean and persuade him to play his role in the apocalypse. No Dean or Sam, no need for hell rescue. So Cas the angels history on the AU earth would be vastly different. 

Unless what Jack does isn't bring our Cas back, but bring the AU!Cas into Cas's vessel.  

[Jonesy]

2 minutes ago, rue721 said:

It seems redundant to me to kill him just to resurrect him. If they were just going to bring back Cas Original Flavor, why not do what they did with Mary and leave him alive but in peril at the end of the episode? I think they are planning on a major transformation, and some kind of spiritual death *at least.*

It also seems redundant AND kind of maddeningly pointless to me to kill Our!Cas just to bring in a replacement. Especially if the replacement is so similar to our!Cas that he's even in the same vessel -- except with none of the same history, relationships, or growth that Our!Cas has to actually make him interesting, natch.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's already going to be somewhat of a fluke if Jimmy (and Claire) even exist.

It's a supernatural thing to kill regulars on this show and bring them back--I'm fine with it as long as we get our guys back. 

[DittyDotDot]

2 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

This is true of the archangels but not so much for lesser angels. When they fell they were pretty much taking anyone who'd say yes. Some were strong enough. Some got burnt out pretty quickly. But there's been no canon on ordinary angels needing specific 'true' vessels.

As I stated, S9 nuked that idea, but before that it was strongly implied, if not outright said, all angels had bloodlines they could posses. Even Michael could've possessed Sam, just as he did John, and Lucifer could've possessed Dean if consent had been given because it was in their blood. 

7 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

I think it'd be a huge stretch of credulity if AU Cas had chosen same vessel i.e. Jimmy.

That's why I've been suggesting Claire as an option. 

[Jonesy]

16 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

Unless what Jack does isn't bring our Cas back, but bring the AU!Cas into Cas's vessel.  

That doesn't jibe with Misha saying Cas is back--even if transformed somewhat it would be Cas at the foundation.  Anyway I'd say this is fantasy show...to have both Cas's have Jimmy Novack wouldn't be impossible.  Sometimes destiny can be the same at certain points in AU's.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Jakes

[CluelessDrifter]

Just now, Jakes said:

THat doesn't jibe with Misha saying Cas is back--even if transformed somewhat it would be Cas at the foundation.  Anyway I'd say this is fantasy to have both Cas's have Jimmy Novack wouldn't be impossible.  Sometimes destiny can be the same at certain points in AU's.

It absolutely jibes with Misha saying we'll be getting some version of Cas.

[Jonesy]

Just now, CluelessDrifter said:

It absolutely jibes with Misha saying we'll be getting some version of Cas.

But he says Cas is back...he wouldn't be back at all in your scenario.

[ILoveReading]

What I don't want to see is Cas be resurrected 5 minutes into the opening of the premier and then everything goes along fine and then in the mid-season finale we find it it was AU Cas all along. 

That would just make the brothers look like idiots that they couldn't tell the difference.

But given the writers and their lack of imagination, I can easily see that happening.

Edited May 22, 2017 by ILoveReading

[Geordiegirl1967]

21 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's already going to be somewhat of a fluke if Jimmy (and Claire) even exist.

Agreed. It sounded like there weren't many humans left on AU earth. And those that have survived would have to be stubborn, experienced and tough like Bobby and Rufus. I can hardly see Mr Nice Jimmy Novak and family surviving an apocalypse. 

Edited May 22, 2017 by Geordiegirl1967

[rue721]

9 minutes ago, Jakes said:

But he says Cas is back...he wouldn't be back at all in your scenario.

From what I heard, Misha said definitively that *he,* the actor, will be back. IIRC, what he said about Cas was pretty vague:  that he'd be undergoing some kind of transformational change, and that he had "a future." IMO that could mean that Our!Cas will be back, or it could mean that we'll be getting an AU!Cas. Personally, I think that Misha's statements hint pretty heavily that what we'll be getting is a "different," AU!Cas rather than Original Flavor. Especially the stuff about "a future" -- to me, that's a hint about Cas appearing in an AU specifically.

And all that said, I doubt that Misha even knows very much for sure, because what's going to happen is (for the most part) still unwritten.

[Jonesy]

6 minutes ago, rue721 said:

From what I heard, Misha said definitively that *he,* the actor, will be back. IIRC, what he said about Cas was pretty vague:  that he'd be undergoing some kind of transformational change, and that he had "a future." IMO that could mean that Our!Cas will be back, or it could mean that we'll be getting an AU!Cas. Personally, I think that Misha's statements hint pretty heavily that what we'll be getting is a "different," AU!Cas rather than Original Flavor. Especially the stuff about "a future" -- to me, that's a hint about Cas appearing in an AU specifically.

And all that said, I doubt that Misha even knows very much for sure, because what's going to happen is (for the most part) still unwritten.

I watched it again--he first says he Misha will be back then he adds we will see Cas again and that the thing to wonder is how death has transformed or changed him then he adds there is also the AU world.   He adds the AU world as an addition to regular Cas coming back.  He clearly says regular Cas comes back but changed.

 

That said--about how much Misha knows?  Well I think he knows if he's still a regular or not contract-wise...and I would think(but not know) that Dabb and gang have given Misha and the boys a general heads up.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Jakes

[CluelessDrifter]

Just now, Jakes said:

But he says Cas is back...he wouldn't be back at all in your scenario.

He says, and I quote, "I - I, I think that um . . . I think I'll - I think I'll be back on, uh, Supernatural, um, in Season 13." ("I" meaning Misha will be on Supernatural in season 13).  Then he goes on to say, "I think that we will see Cas again, but the question is what this death does to him, um, is you know, uh, is I think the one to wonder about, you know.  In, in Supernatural, a character's death can mark a sort of big transition point for them, um, and, and I think that, you know, what we'll need to wait and see is how, how this transforms him.  Um, but I do think we'll see a version of him again.  There's also this parallel universe in which, uh, possibly everyone is alive in a different iteration.  Um, so . . . you never know."

You can read that how you want.  I read it as we're getting AU!Cas instead of our Cas.  I don't see them having Cas play off of AU!Cas the way the had Dean play off of Future!Dean in The End.  That took a lot of work to get right, and I just don't think they're going to do it with Cas, but that's my opinion.

[Pondlass1]

40 minutes ago, auntvi said:

This season's version is so watered down from the original Cas, I think it would be a lot more interesting to see an alt-Cas. JMO

I agree.  And anyway, although it's fun to speculate... no one knows anything yet. Not Misha, not  the showrunner or his writers.  They're just getting started brainwashing ideas.  I'd assume they'd dilly-dally with an AU Cas at the beginning and see how it goes over with fans.  Unfortunately it's not until the winter break that any viewer reaction can be assessed (that was the issue with Samelia).  If AU Cas doesn't work, I'd assume they'd somehow return him to regular.  Although today's regular Cas  is light years away from the original season 4 Cas.  

An AU Cas could be like a shot in the arm - could be intriguing.

The biggest error this series makes is to have 'regulars' disappear for weeks at a time and we're left thinking "why don't they call Cas?" or "where's Cas?" etc.  I realize these actors are only assigned a certain number of episodes - but it's all in the writing.  Too many writers writing in isolation and a showruner that's not experienced enough to tie SLs and characters together.

[Jonesy]

1 minute ago, CluelessDrifter said:

He says, and I quote, "I - I, I think that um . . . I think I'll - I think I'll be back on, uh, Supernatural, um, in Season 13." ("I" meaning Misha will be on Supernatural in season 13).  Then he goes on to say, "I think that we will see Cas again, but the question is what this death does to him, um, is you know, uh, is I think the one to wonder about, you know.  In, in Supernatural, a character's death can mark a sort of big transition point for them, um, and, and I think that, you know, what we'll need to wait and see is how, how this transforms him.  Um, but I do think we'll see a version of him again.  There's also this parallel universe in which, uh, possibly everyone is alive in a different iteration.  Um, so . . . you never know."

You can read that how you want.  I read it as we're getting AU!Cas instead of our Cas.  I don't see them having Cas play off of AU!Cas the way the had Dean play off of Future!Dean in The End.  That took a lot of work to get right, and I just don't think they're going to do it with Cas, but that's my opinion.

Yes we read that clearly differently--Misha is back, Cas is back changed and maybe something happens with the AU world.  We wouldn't be seeing Cas again if he was really AU Cas.  Cas is transformed--so he's there.

[Bessie]

Thanks for the transcript, @CluelessDrifter. I don't read any certainties into that either way. Other than Cas being transformed in some way, that was as clear as mud!

[Jonesy]

I do think the producers and writers already know a big thing like is a character coming back or gone--and they'll keep the actor involved especially if the actors is a regular.  So I have no doubt the J's and Misha know that much.

 

That said none of us know FOR SURE--but going by what Misha said I feel better about regular Cas being back.  Just don't want him changed too much.

[MysteryGuest]

11 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

And those that have survived would have to be stubborn, experienced and tough like Bobby and Rufus.

I don't think Rufus was in the AU world.  AU Bobby had named his gun Rufus.

I doubt we'll get two versions of Cas.  I think either Jack will bring Cas back, and he'll be "different" somehow, or we'll get AU Cas.  They boys will mourn the loss of Cas in the season 13 opener, and then find his double in the AU world when they try to save Mary.  I know that scenario does't work for some people, but I would welcome a more relevant Castiel.  I keep thinking about The End version of Cas, and there was a lot to like about him, IMO.  I have to think even Misha would appreciate something more interesting to do.