S04.E11: If-Then-Else

[webruce]

Maybe Shaw will be in a coma. If The Machine don't find her and send her off to recoup. Then Greer will send her off to that place in the snowy climate where we first saw him. Then she will go through rehab and brain washing. Then 2 years down the road she will come hunting the team, and Bear will have to snap her out of her brainwash.

[Agent Dark]

The override button is commonly referred to in the industry as a mushroom pushbutton, because is looks like a mushroom shaped pushbutton Dah-dum-dum. Usually it is used and an emergency stop button "Oh no, something went wrong & we need to stop the equipment so someone doesn't die or explode" It is easier to smack it than pressing a standard pushbutton. You don't see them around elevators, its required to be next to generators.

 

Just on that Emergency Stop button (I've never heard them referred to as mushroom buttons here in Australia, is that an American thing?), it does kinda make sense it would be there as a security override for a secure elevator.  The guard who's meant to be stationed there at the desk would check the camera feed from the elevator, and if he sees something shifty he can smack the button and stop the elevator. 

 

 

Also I've seen people question why Shaw had to run over to that Emergency Stop button, and not have just thrown a gun or a shoe as I've seen some people suggest lol, and that is because those Emergency Stop buttons "lock in" when they are activated (that way you ensure the emergency stop stays active after you've pushed it) and need to be physically twisted so they "pop out" to reset the circuit.  As for why Shaw couldn't have then ran back and dived into the elevator - the cage that pulls down is almost certainly going to have a mechanical interlock that needs to be released (ie the cage needs to be down fully in the closed position - there's even a sign hanging on the cage that says 'please close door after exiting') before the elevator will move.  From a technical point of view I don't think there was anything contrived about why Shaw had to do what she did. 

Edited January 9, 2015 by Agent Dark

[bros402]

What was that conveniently prominent elevator override button anyway? Are those common in real life? It didn't look like an emergency shut-off switch, more like the opposite.

Well they were saying that the lower level of the stock exchange was designed to be sealed off in the event of an attack - perhaps a guard is assigned there, but Samaritan operatives took them out? In an actual attack where people need to be kept out, perhaps the guard at that desk would press the button so individuals could access the servers directly (and so that person is the only one who can control the flow of traffic to and from the server area, unless you have a nigh-omnipresent AI on your side, of course)

 

Or maybe the button was activated to lock the elevator, and it needed to be compressed in order to deactivate the lock.

Edited January 9, 2015 by bros402

[shura]

Or maybe the button was activated to lock the elevator, and it needed to be compressed in order to deactivate the lock.

 

This makes sense. My issue with the button was that the system was actually down, and Shaw figured she had to use the button to bring the system back on. That confused me (mildly) because you don't normally see shut-off switches used for that purpose on TV.

 

The funniest thing is, there is a big red button, totally looking like a mushroom, on the wall fifteen feet from where I am sitting at work. I'm sure I've looked at it thousands of times but never paid any attention to it. And now I am sitting here and fighting the urge to walk over and see what the button does.

[ShannaB]

Love this show and I will dearly miss Shaw.  It was a wonderful surprise for me to see Sarah Shahi join the cast because I thought she was absolutely great in LIFE, a highly underappreciated series IMO.  Team Machine needs another 'badass' and I am hoping that Nick Tarabay joins the cast.  His very brief appearance in that one episode when he let Shaw escape gave me hope for a new TM recruit.  His character certainly didn't seem too happy about his mission for Control.

[Dagny]

Just on that Emergency Stop button (I've never heard them referred to as mushroom buttons here in Australia, is that an American thing?),

 

We also call them Emergency Stop buttons, but the vendors have them listed also as mushroom pushbuttons.

 

I think the pushbutton was there just to kill Shaw.It would make no sense to have that big of a button to let the elevator leave that location.

[webruce]

@Shura, push it, lol

 

 Maybe they can get Zoe to come back atleast periodically. But if Martine took out Shaw, Zoe won't be safe.

 

 I miss Hersh. He got to be a likeable bad guy. Maybe why he got killed off.

 

With Madam Control being help hostage by the team next week, will Root get to taze her like she did Root? Also maybe do (or threaten)to do the ear operation Control did to her .

Edited January 9, 2015 by webruce

[DeLurker]

@Shura, push it, lol

 

Damn it!  Now I am picturing Salt-N-Pepa encouraging Shura to do just that!

Edited January 9, 2015 by DeLurker

[Mars477]

Huh, that TvLine interview actually answered a question that was bugging me all season, which was why Shaw was wearing all these cleavage revealing outfits.  It was annoying because in Life season 1 she was looking great in mens' shirts and flats with her hair up, but then all of a sudden in season 2 Ravich and co. sexed up her wardrobe in a really unnecessary fashion.  So why the change here?

TVLINE | See, I didn’t even notice until I posted a teaser video the other day and a couple of readers were like, “I bet Sarah Shahi is pregnant, she’s been wearing big coats….”
[Laughs] I know, I had a few people say something to me too, and this was over a month ago. I was like, “What?! Why would you even say that?” But yeah, it is tricky to hide, and for the most part we just did a lot of close-ups. Also, you can take the “girls” out, because the ta-tas grow…. You try to distract the viewers’ eyelines and make them look up.

So that's an explanation.

[Syme]

I love it when there is electrical equipment in the background. I try to figure out what type of place they are shooting in.  I think this place was a water pumping station, because of the chem pumps and big motor starters next to the elevator.

 

In NYC, that would be in a skyscraper. The city has no water pumping as it is gravity fed from upstate, until you get up to the 5th-6th floor.....THEN you need pumps...

[Syme]

This makes sense. My issue with the button was that the system was actuall. And now I am sitting here and fighting the urge to walk over and see what the button does.

 

Push it & you'll know..... It's likely an EPO - Emergency Power Off.

{Bring a flashlight......}

[wagthedog]

Maybe I'm not looking in the right places, but I'm surprised this show doesn't get more buzz. It's clever, topical, funny, well acted, intense. It has managed to blend the CBS procedural formula with more serialized elements that allow it to aim higher. If-Then-Else was really outstanding. The simulations stayed true to each character while revealing new layers. The "speed up" simulation was fantastic, don't think I've seen anything like it, and it enhanced the Root/Shaw dynamic in an oddly endearing way. 

 

I think it's challenging for shows to remain fresh over time. Introducing a new character is one way to change the dynamic but on so many shows that effort fails as the new character is never embraced by the audience. POI managed to kill off a beloved character and then integrate two new characters in manner that allowed the show to stay as strong as ever. Impressive. Root and Shaw added new perspectives to the landscape, further challenging the Harold world view without being heavy handed in any one direction. And great work by Amy Acker and Sarah Shahi. They both managed to take characters that were initially unlikable and bring them around to places where they where I could at least appreciate them. Add while I didn't ship Root/Shaw, the chemistry was as undeniable as it was unexpected. Good job, show, for running with that find.

 

When Shaw first became a regular I wondered if it was too much. She seemed like she might be better in small doses. Imagine my surprise when I realized I actually felt invested in her story and outcome. In the closing moments of the episode I found myself really hoping she would one day be resurrected. And again, good job show for giving her an exit that respected the core of the character.

 

I'm curious to see how the apparent death effects the rest of Team Machine and I do hope Sarah Shahi will want to return to POI at some point down the road after getting settled with her twins.

[StarBrand]

I've never quite seen a show so willing to fuck with its' status quo, time after time. It's become known to everyone that Shahi's exit was forced by her pregnancy, not her wanting to go, which makes her going-off-the-reservation and doing all kinds of things to get herself noticed, a little more understandable, in hindsight.

 

Real-life factors aside, it would been unrealistic at this point for Team Machine to emerge from this battle unscathed. The challenge of how to make Sameen's exit count and have an impact on the other characters has been met very well. Root will be more motivated than ever to bring down this entity that dared fuck with her family. The next domino to fall will probably be Root-she has to stick around and make sure Team Machine wins. After that, I'm not sure what purpose her character would have...

 

It would be somewhat fitting if at the end of this season, we're down to the core trio-(Fusco, Reese, Finch-I don't think I'd count Carter as coming aboard until later).

[Saint TV]

I agree with "wagthedog" about the deafening sounds of silence about POI. I find it especially strange given that the show has been in the top ten for at least 2 of 3 seasons, if not all 3.

[Mom x 3]

Wow.  Bravo to the writers and the director.  We knew the actors could do it. 

Forget what actually happened in the episode; I'm in awe of the beauty of it.  This was a stunning piece of film, from the direction, to the music, to the cinematography, to the editing.  Just wow. 

[Dagny]

In NYC, that would be in a skyscraper. The city has no water pumping as it is gravity fed from upstate, until you get up to the 5th-6th floor.....THEN you need pumps...

 

That would make sense.  Those starters looked really big and you might want to put in a little chlorine to keep the residual.  I stayed in NYC once and got a kick out of counting the water towers on the surrounding buildings.

[Bort]

My aunt watches the show and I texted her on Friday to see if she’d seen the new episode yet: she hadn’t. And she was all, I’m watching it this weekend, I’ll try and remember to text you when I do. Me: Oh trust me, you’ll remember.

Sure enough, I was having dinner with friends on Saturday when my aunt started frantically blowing up my phone. This is the really interesting part, though: she never suspected anything going on between Root and Shaw, so the kissing took her totally by surprise. I can’t believe she never noticed.

Edited January 13, 2015 by kariyaki

[HawaiiTVGuy]

Speaking of Martine, she now knows that Fusco is part of Team Machine, meaning Reese cover is definitely going to be blown, I wonder how they'll address that.

I think other people mentioned it that Cusco did not seem to be ID'd in the real scenario. Just a personal pet peeve but considering they knew they were outgunned, why did they leave the heavy weaponry from the guys they disabled leading up to the shootout?

Another thing no one mentioned about Shaw, this was kind of inevitable once she was ID'd by Samaritan, she couldn't work overtly anymore.

Edited January 13, 2015 by HawaiiTVGuy

[johntfs]

Real-life factors aside, it would been unrealistic at this point for Team Machine to emerge from this battle unscathed. The challenge of how to make Sameen's exit count and have an impact on the other characters has been met very well. Root will be more motivated than ever to bring down this entity that dared fuck with her family. The next domino to fall will probably be Root-she has to stick around and make sure Team Machine wins. After that, I'm not sure what purpose her character would have...

 

I think Root's going to stick around for a good long time unless Person of Interest is ending this season.  I mean, think about the next logical step in the storyline.  Team Machine beats Samaritan and more than likely ends up on semi-friendly terms with Control and her faction.  What happens next?  Well, figure what happens next after Decima is "decimated" is that the various programmers and computer folks take the code, special chips and programming knowledge for Samaritan on the run to the various higher bidders.  What happens next is a dozen or hundred Samaritan-lites all onver the globe and the build up to a possible AI apocalypse.  

 

I mean, really, you don't think the show will simply reset to John, Harold and Fusco helping random unlucky people out of their jams circa season one, do you?  Even if you do, consider that The Machine reached out and official recruited Root at the end of Season 2, well before Samaritan was a threat.  The Machine liked the idea of someone specifically devoted to itself to acts as its hands and voice in the real world.  Even if Samaritan is destroyed and Root dies, The Machine wants someone in that role.  Given that case, it may as well be Root because it's mildly ridiculous for the showrunners to essentially say "Yeah, we're going to get rid of the talented Amy Acker and the role of Root and then bring in somebody else to do exactly the same stuff the Root does."

 

 

I know Fusco got recognized in a simulation but were they ID'd in the firefight? I didn't think Martine or the guy version got close enough. Just a personal pet peeve but considering they knew they were outgunned, why did they leave the heavy weaponry from the guys they disabled leading up to the shootout?

Maybe it would destroy it and not activate it? I was thinking throwing an empty gun at the button would work? Or did the door need to be closed and locked when the button was pushed?

 

They didn't have a handy gym-bag and stopping too long to gather guns and ammo would get them shot by Decima reinforcements.

 

As for the button, that's this show scknowledging reality.  It's really, really hard to throw something hard enough and accurate enough to press a button like that.  If Shaw takes the time to play ninja with her unbalanced for throwing guns, she'll fail to push the button and then Decima wil arrive and kill everyone.

Edited January 13, 2015 by johntfs

[DarkRaichu]

Loved that Fusco kissed Root in one of the simulations.  It was probably the only way to confuse Root :D :D :D

[johntfs]

I loved that The Machine had her be slightly puzzled instead of angry and then cool with the whole thing since they were in a simulation.  For my part, I loved the meta-dialogue, especially between Root and Shaw:

 

Overly affectionate greeting

Greeting

Transparent rationale for conversation

Annoyed attempt to deflect subtext

Overt come on

[StarBrand]

johntfs, I wasn't meaning that I wanted Root to get gone. I just thought that perhaps Root would go out in a blaze of glory for the sake of the Machine. Maybe that happens this season, maybe not. I certainly hope she does stick around.

 

If there's an event that could potentially shake her belief in the machine, Shaw's perceived death would probably be it. Of course, that would be tempered somewhat knowing Shaw's still alive.

 

There's a couple of things about the episode I didn't notice the first time around. When the machine "rewinds" back to real time, everything goes backwards-including the soundtrack. I also didn't notice at the end credits, where Emerson usually says "stay tuned for scenes from next week", it's sllent-but Samaritan is displaying that on its screen.

 

I probably didn't notice these things, because I had a lot on my miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd....

Edited January 13, 2015 by StarBrand

[Camera One]

Shaw has really grown on me, and I'm sad she's leaving the show and they killed her off.  It wasn't easy to watch Reese, Harold and Root die either.  The problem with groundhog day type episodes on most shows, is the repeated scenarios could get a bit tiresome, and I felt a bit of that in this episode.  I find it interesting that the Machine chose the scenario where the fewest number of people died, even the anonymous goons.  I hope Martine gets her comeuppance in the end.  Hate her so much.

[DeLurker]

 I hope Martine gets her comeuppance in the end.  Hate her so much.

My hate for Matine will be one of the few times a character will probably make me dislike every other role the actor ever gets. I still can't watch anything with William Petersen in it because he was the scuzzy hubby in Cousins.

[Netfoot]

I still can't watch anything with William Petersen in it because he was the scuzzy hubby in Cousins.

 

I know what you mean.  I always dislike whatever character is played by Barry Morse, because he wouldn't give David Janssen a break!

[Camera One]

Why would Greer let Martine and his goons kill Team Machine?  If some escaped, wouldn't it be smart to keep one as a hostage?  Wouldn't he want to capture Root or Harold to get a better understanding of The Machine and to ensure it's disabled and out of commission for good?  

Edited January 22, 2015 by Camera One

[stealinghome]

That's precisely why I'm convinced Shaw is alive (at least for the moment)!

[stealinghome]

Upon rewatch, If-Then-Else remains probably the best episode this show has done. 'Nuff said.

 

Shaaaaaaaaaaaaw.

 

And Shoot! That kiss! And "maybe someday" and "yeah, Sameen...that's good enough for me" and sim!Shaw's face and voice after sim!Root died. And Root's FACE as Shaw went down. Just. The last five minutes were amazing on all levels.

 

But for real though, this episode blended action and character perfectly--and not just the human characters. The amount of insight we got into The Machine was just amazing. It's little things, too; like I didn't notice until the second go-round that The Machine actually lists the survival of her team as the primary objective and saving the world economy as the secondary objective. While on the one hand that's totally logical, on the other, it nevertheless speaks volumes about her priorities (Root taking the painting down did that too). Or how she's scrolling through options faster than I think she did at any other point in the episode when Shaw was down and Martine was walking up to her--like she was frantically running through options faster than she ever had before to try to save Shaw. On the heels of TM's chat with Samaritan last week, this episode just hammered home The Machine's humanity, which is amazing.

 

I didn't catch it on the first viewing, but Shaw said to the jumper "You embezzle money or Twinkies, Harvey??" Bwah! Oh, Shaw. I'm really, really going to miss your sense of humor--her "Oh, you guys look like CRAP" later was pretty awesome too. I'm pretty sure the burden of lightening the tone is pretty much going to fall to Lionel alone now. Finch isn't particularly funny, John works better as the straight man, and Root's not going to be in a joking mood for quite a while. But I think Fusco's up to the task...his cereal nicknames alone this episode were amazing. And the kiss to Root! Methinks The Machine has a cheekier sense of humor than we generally imagine. Maybe that's part of the reason she and Root get on so well.

 

It's really interesting that the first simulation, which had the "logical" path--the hackers going to do the computer stuff and the muscle going to secure the escape route--was the most immediately disastrous simulation and was terminated immediately. The fact that the most predictable, logical path was the worst was kind of a nice, subtle nod to human unpredictability, I thought--which, at the end of the day, was of course what this episode was dedicated to glorifying.

 

Greer and Martine are super creepy psychos that have slightly inappropriate chemistry. It's almost uncle/niece, but a little too charged for that. He enjoyed saying "Enjoy yourself," and she enjoyed him saying it, just a little too much. Ick.

 

Finch checkmating The Machine in slow motion in the flashback while "No Valid Option" flashes on the screen is so good, and so, so sad when you realize it's foreshadowing. I also found the last shot of Harold walking away from the chess board, while all the other boards didn't have any pieces on them, to be wickedly effective. Harold, at this point in the timeline, is playing a game that no one else even knows exists--such a fantastic visual representation of that. And I love Harold as someone who probably could be a chess grand master but chooses not to be because he doesn't like the game, because I feel like that hits at the heart of the contradictions that make him up. Really these flashbacks, and those of the 42 Machines from 4x05, are some of the most moving in the whole show. SO much better than 4x10's flashbacks.

 

I didn't realize this initially, but in the subway simulation where Shaw says "die for something that you love," they're playing a softer variation on the music that plays when real Shaw sacrifices herself (there's also a hint of it in the sim when she successfully talks the guy down). THE FEELS.

 

I had forgotten that the simulation where John and Root die was the same one, which is really interesting imo given that it looks like they're going to be teaming up off and on for the rest of the season, and the fact that they're similar in general. I'm wondering if that's foreshadowing of some kind, because they were both also so very human in their last moments, thinking about the people they care about--John saving Fusco, Root saying goodbye to Shaw. Both Root and Reese are fueled by emotion, too...I'm really interested to see where they go in the back half. (And, side note: not only is The Machine a total Shoot shipper--she kept the second simulation going after John's death basically just to see Shaw and Root talk!--I'm starting to think Martine is too. Between her offer last week to kill Shaw and Root together, and the way sim!Martine let Root have that last conversation with Shaw? Total shipper! Real!Martine also looked less victorious than you'd expect when she was bringing her gun to bear on Shaw's head. Though that may just have been because Samaritan chirped in her ear to save Shaw at the last minute.)

 

Man, Amy Acker's eyes must have been burning after shooting this episode, between having to cry when Finch died, Root died, and Shaw "died." Her little sniff over Harold's body broke my heart. Root talks a big game, but she's so utterly unprepared for anyone other than her to die.

[DEM]

I didn't realize this initially, but in the subway simulation where Shaw says "die for something that you love," they're playing a softer variation on the music that plays when real Shaw sacrifices herself (there's also a hint of it in the sim when she successfully talks the guy down).

 

These and the motif that played when Shaw argued with Finch and packed her gear in 4x10 were all Shaw's theme.  In fact, nearly every single frame of Shaw in 4x11 was accompanied by her theme.

[prican58]

Shaws Theme. Wow! Must re watch. 

[ABay]

In all of the excitement the first time I around, I forgot: The Machine commissioned a hacker to create the stock market fix. Hmm.

[Oscirus]

Just getting caught up and I must say this is easily the best episode of this year. The biggest things that I got coming out of this episode was the evolution of the fate of the painting that Finch loved so much.  The machine finally getting Root to save the painting showed that there's more to the machine then Finch thinks.

The other thing I caught was the fact that once Finch died, the machine shut down that simulation real quick. If you notice the second time around, the machine let the scenario play out even after Reese died. I think this shows that despite his best efforts the machine will always value Finch above all others.

 

If I had to compare the gang to chess pieces it would be- Finch- King, Root Queen, Reese- Rook, Fusco- Bishop, Shaw- Knight.

[Coxfires]

I just started binge-watching this show last week (thought it was a procedural, and am not that much into them), and boy, I missed one of the best show out there.

My, I just loved everything about this episode, apart maybe the fact that Team Machine lost Shaw. I will really miss her tomboyish presence, the little sister/big brother interactions she had with Reese, her buddying with Fusco, and of course her relationship with Root. We have already seen the rest of the team dealing with grief with Carter, but Root's reaction to Shaw's death will be terrifying. Not saying that the others will be OK with it, but we've already been there with these characters, and exploring Root's feelings towards the Machine and "her" inability to save Shaw will be interesting: will she lose faith in "her"? Will she revert to being a total psycho? At least I hope either Root or Reese gets to dispatch Samaritan's blonde bitch, in an EPIC way. 

Apart from that, this episode had everything: the sense of urgency and real threat, poignant scenes of Finch teaching the values of every human life to the machine (and just how incredible is Michael Emerson, playing opposite no one but still managing to convey so much, what a first-class actor), the humor (Fusco takes the cake with "It's a simulation so why not?), being in The Machine's POV (I loved the simplifying simulation being spot on about everyone: "cooly delivered sadistic warning"), the Machin having "learned" the chess lesson, and this ending... It will be hard to top such an incredible episode.