Actionmage December 12, 2014 Share December 12, 2014 This is where we can talk about the woman who helped make an empire. Link to comment
Actionmage December 14, 2014 Author Share December 14, 2014 Personally, I'm just glad to have Taraji back on my TV for a couple of months! I think she's going to rock the show and, fingers crossed, get some little statues when the next award season rolls around. I've only seen the extended trailer and the ads on Fox, as I want to be as unspoiled as possible. Yet, the potential for Cookie to be as deep as I think she's going to be? Is going to make this wonderful and squirmy. She's a female in a male-dominant industry (hip-hop); I am curious as to how Lucious was able to take (quote/unquote) her money to start Empire Records. ( I was using Cookie's words and felt the actual quotes might come across as doubting her assertion that the 400k was hers. Or whatever the amount was.) Link to comment
Congo January 8, 2015 Share January 8, 2015 Those weaves, those nails, those CLOTHES! Cookie is awesome. Taraji P. Henson just tore it up. Loved her beating her son with the broom when he called her a bitch. Cookie don't play! 19 Link to comment
Meedis January 8, 2015 Share January 8, 2015 Those weaves, those nails, those CLOTHES! Cookie is awesome. Taraji P. Henson just tore it up. Loved her beating her son with the broom when he called her a bitch. Cookie don't play! That definitely was one of many stand out scenes. She and Jurnee S. are the standouts so far. I'm glad to see Taraji get the opportunity to really shine. 3 Link to comment
mistyknight January 8, 2015 Share January 8, 2015 She was absolutely captivating on scene. She is an amazing actress to be able to convey several emotions via facial expressions alone. 4 Link to comment
Mozelle January 8, 2015 Share January 8, 2015 That definitely was one of many stand out scenes. She and Jurnee S. are the standouts so far. I'm glad to see Taraji get the opportunity to really shine. Jussie? I like his character, too. I mean, it's Cookie, first and foremost, who's wearing the hell out of furs and making me want to wear furs when never in my life have I ever wanted to. 3 Link to comment
ribboninthesky1 January 8, 2015 Share January 8, 2015 Ha, I read Jurnee and thought, "Wait, did I miss her? When did this happen?" I was pleasantly surprised by Cookie, and I hope that she continues to be the best thing about the show. Link to comment
tvfan0812 January 9, 2015 Share January 9, 2015 She owns the screen every time she's on it. It was great to see the reviews calling this fact out. This was my fav scene. Prob not the most PC, but I love that this show doesn't even try to be. 8 Link to comment
LaChavalina January 9, 2015 Share January 9, 2015 Jussie? I like his character, too. I mean, it's Cookie, first and foremost, who's wearing the hell out of furs and making me want to wear furs when never in my life have I ever wanted to. I was into the furs, then I saw her in the fedora with the snakeskin blouse and decided I wanted that instead. 3 Link to comment
Rick Kitchen January 10, 2015 Share January 10, 2015 Maybe there should be a clothing thread ... :D 2 Link to comment
TwistedandBored January 11, 2015 Share January 11, 2015 I love her. Cookie Lyon is my favorite character on the show and it all thanks to Taraji P. Henson. 4 Link to comment
Jazzy24 January 11, 2015 Share January 11, 2015 I love her. Cookie Lyon is my favorite character on the show and it all thanks to Taraji P. Henson. Right!! I hope though they don't continue playing the bitter angle I understand her being mad but I wish she would just focus on her sons and career and forget Lucious. And I hope she does develops genuine relationships with all her sons especially Hakeem and Andre. Jamal and Cookie's relationship is the best thing about the show so I hope we get other scenes with her other 2 sons. 2 Link to comment
Actionmage January 14, 2015 Author Share January 14, 2015 If I was Jamal, I'd want to dress up as his take-no-prisoners mama who's also street-smart and business savvy. It might not have been all homophobia in the reaction to lil' Jamal. Boys are supposed to want to take after their dads, according to the "way things are." Cookie is love! Link to comment
anadyr21 January 15, 2015 Share January 15, 2015 Maybe there should be a clothing thread ... :D Speak of the devil.... During the second episode, Cookie was wearing this yellow, multicolored dress. I'm pretty sure I recognized it from my Covet Fashion game (yeah, don't judge), as a Torn by Ronny Kobo dress that I really wanted. After checking the images and asking my husband, he thought I was right. In fact, one of the other dresses that popped up was the little black number, with the cutout sides, that Hakeem's girl was wearing. So, yeah, loving Cookie's clothes! 1 Link to comment
Actionmage January 15, 2015 Author Share January 15, 2015 I felt for Cookie in the elevator scene; there was not another soul that gave two figs about Cookie and how that ass talked to her. Maybe Becky would. Once she finds out who really killed Bunky? Earrings off! A shoe will be the least problematic thing Luscious will have coming at him! Treating Jamal as trash, setting her boys at each other, acting like he's better than she is now, and killing Bunky? He may rather ALS get him. I like that Cookie tried to comfort Hakeem. Regardless of the broom beatdown, she birthed him and cares about him, whether he's aware of it or not. I hope that Hakeem gets that as the series goes on. 5 Link to comment
teezy January 15, 2015 Share January 15, 2015 cookie is a straight up hood chcik but i love her lol she seems like the type to stand by her man through thick in thin unlike the weak bitch he got now lol 1 Link to comment
Rick Kitchen January 15, 2015 Share January 15, 2015 I wonder if they're divorced, or still technically married. Link to comment
Jazzy24 January 15, 2015 Share January 15, 2015 I wonder if they're divorced, or still technically married. They're divorced I remember Cookie having a line about him divorcing her in jail. 1 Link to comment
Milz January 15, 2015 Share January 15, 2015 I love Cookie. I love everything about her: her clothes, her no-beating-around-the-bush attitude, and her love for her sons. I understand that Hakeem doesn't know her because he was a baby when she was locked up, but I'd like to knock him around for being so disrespectful to her. And when she learns who killed Bunkie------that is one episode I will not miss! 2 Link to comment
LydiaMoon1 January 15, 2015 Share January 15, 2015 (edited) This was my fav scene. Prob not the most PC, but I love that this show doesn't even try to be. @tvfan0812. I already liked your comment, but I just wanted to add that it's not wrong to love this scene. I'm not ashamed to say that I cackle every time I see it. Edited January 15, 2015 by LydiaMoon1 3 Link to comment
DearEvette January 15, 2015 Share January 15, 2015 I remember when Taraji was tweeting pictures of Cookie in full ponytail/doorknocker earrings & white fur back during the summer. Even through the pictures, it looked like Cookie was a force of nature. I was so excited because I was still bitter and heartbroken over Carter. So I am doubly thrilled at how completely awesome Cookie is. I confess I watch for her. I love how she just swaggers! I think her nails alone need a moment of silent reverence. 3 Link to comment
netlyon2 January 16, 2015 Share January 16, 2015 I think her nails alone need a moment of silent reverence. I don't even like long nails, but that moment when her hand held the elevator door was it! Every scene she's in crackles with the electricity she brings. 5 Link to comment
Jade Foxx January 16, 2015 Share January 16, 2015 cookie is a straight up hood chcik but i love her lol she seems like the type to stand by her man through thick in thin unlike the weak bitch he got now lol She seems to be an older version of the character she played in "Baby Boy." I keep waiting for her to yell, "I'm tired of you cheating on me, Jody!" Link to comment
Malbec January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 My favorite detail about Cookie is how she's frequently shown grabbing food when it's available (or, similarly, demanding food when she shows up at Luscious's house). It reminds you she's been eating prison food for the last 17 years, and more generally, of the fact that she's a character who's been starved of a lot of things. 7 Link to comment
DollEyes January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 Cookie rules! She suffers no fools, respects few boundaries and takes no prisoners. Serving 17 years in prison alone proves that Cookie is as tough as those fierce nails. Cookie not only has balls, she has heart, as shown for her love of her sons in general and for Jamal in particular. Cookie may not always be p.c. where Jamal is concerned, but her loyalty to/belief in him more than makes up for it. Her beating Hakeem's ass with a broom was priceless. Served him right for calling her a bitch. If/when Cookie finds out who killed her cousin Bunkie, I wouldn't want to be Lucius. I heart Cookie, in all her hood-rat, ride-or-die, ghetto-fabulous glory. 5 Link to comment
JBC344 January 17, 2015 Share January 17, 2015 I love that Cookie's language is more about her being "unsophiticated, unpolished, un-PC" than it is about her being a mean person. Love how she can dismiss Michael as Dora but she didn't bat an eye about her gay son on top of his boyfriend in bed. Then for her to get in bed with her gay son and boyfriend while both are naked speaks more in volume about how accepting she is than her language. 7 Link to comment
DearEvette January 19, 2015 Share January 19, 2015 I love that Cookie's language is more about her being "unsophiticated, unpolished, un-PC" than it is about her being a mean person. Love how she can dismiss Michael as Dora but she didn't bat an eye about her gay son on top of his boyfriend in bed. Then for her to get in bed with her gay son and boyfriend while both are naked speaks more in volume about how accepting she is than her language. Exactly. I remember after the pilot people were all upset she used the term 'f*****.' I was like... did you all NOT just watch the preceding 50 minutes? And did you not get the ironic context in which she was using the word? 2 Link to comment
ParadoxLost January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Serving 17 years in prison alone proves that Cookie is as tough as those fierce nails. Cookie not only has balls, she has heart, as shown for her love of her sons in general and for Jamal in particular. I get the feeling that Cookie's feelings towards her sons have a lot to do with which ones visited her in prison. I get the feeling that Jamal is the only one who (ever?) did and that he kept it up the whole time she was there. Link to comment
ribboninthesky1 January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Cookie resonates for me because I have a childhood friend that's in prison, separated from her three boys, because of her husband. The circumstances are different, but it really disturbs me how some women/girls are willing to throw several years, if not a lifetime, away for some man who wouldn't even think of reciprocating. So I want Cookie to rise and thrive. No, she shouldn't have been into running/dealing drugs, but knowing how hard it is to rise out of poverty, I understand it was a means to an end. One that she still wouldn't have reaped any rewards from if she didn't force Lucious' hand. Then again, I could see Jamal helping her out, but who knows how long that would have lasted. I'm hoping she'll get some allies on her side, even if it's just the mutually beneficial alliances. I think I read on the pilot thread that Tasha Smith was her sister, so I wonder where she is and what's going on with their relationship. I hope we find out. 3 Link to comment
Ohwell January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Tasha Smith as Cookie's sister? Oh Lord. Everybody better watch out! 1 Link to comment
JBC344 January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Yeah Tasha was in the pilot. In the flashback scene where Lucious puts Jamal in the trash. Right before Lucious grabs him they flash to Tasha sitting on the couch, she is the one we hear scream for Cookie. I hope that wasn't just stunt casting for the pilot and they plan to continue the character. Link to comment
BigBlueMastiff January 20, 2015 Share January 20, 2015 Those weaves, those nails, those CLOTHES! Cookie is awesome. Taraji P. Henson just tore it up. Loved her beating her son with the broom when he called her a bitch. Cookie don't play! Ha, right on, don't forget her comment about weaves smelling like goats. Ha, I read Jurnee and thought, "Wait, did I miss her? When did this happen?" Is she Annika, I didn't even recognize her, damn. Link to comment
ribboninthesky1 January 21, 2015 Share January 21, 2015 No, Jurnee isn't on the show. I think the original post just mixed the names up. Link to comment
mistyknight January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 I believe Tasha Smith plays her younger sister according to last night's episode. I disagree with the fact that she favors Jamal because he visited her. I think she favors Jamal because of how cruel Lucious was to him over his sexual orientation. Look at how fierce her mama bear was during the trash can scene. If her relationship revolved solely on who visited her in prison, she would have been more ambivalent during that scene. I mean look at Anika. She has been around how long...? She could care less about any of those boys and sits perched by Lucious' side while he unleashes his hatred towards Jamal. 3 Link to comment
kikaha January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 I disagree with the fact that she favors Jamal because he visited her. I think she favors Jamal because of how cruel Lucious was to him over his sexual orientation I think that's part of it, but also that she knows how cruelly the world treats young gay boys. One example was that early scene, when Jamal paraded around the party in women's clothes. All the adults showed their disgust. Cookie knew she had to protect him -- not only from his father, but a world where homosexuality was taboo. Taraji hits it out of the park in all her scenes. I really wish her character in Person of Interest had not gotten killed off. 2 Link to comment
aprilbabe January 22, 2015 Share January 22, 2015 I disagree with the fact that she favors Jamal because he visited her. I think she favors Jamal because of how cruel Lucious was to him over his sexual orientation. Look at how fierce her mama bear was during the trash can scene. If her relationship revolved solely on who visited her in prison, she would have been more ambivalent during that scene. I mean look at Anika. She has been around how long...? She could care less about any of those boys and sits perched by Lucious' side while he unleashes his hatred towards Jamal. I agree, I think she feels that Andre's alright. Educated, sucessfull, etc (although he has his issue) Hakeem has Lucious. So she probably feels Jamal needs her the most. God only know what he went through without Cookie there to protect him. I also think she most drawn to him, because he's most like Lucious (minus the gay part of course) You could really see that in Cooke/Lucious and Cookie/Jamals interaction when playing that song. 1 Link to comment
mistyknight January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 (edited) I think that's part of it, but also that she knows how cruelly the world treats young gay boys. One example was that early scene, when Jamal paraded around the party in women's clothes. All the adults showed their disgust. Cookie knew she had to protect him -- not only from his father, but a world where homosexuality was taboo. Taraji hits it out of the park in all her scenes. I never thought of it that way but I definitely think your thoughts have merit and totally make sense to me. I agree, I think she feels that Andre's alright. Educated, sucessfull, etc (although he has his issue) Hakeem has Lucious. So she probably feels Jamal needs her the most. God only know what he went through without Cookie there to protect him. I also think she most drawn to him, because he's most like Lucious (minus the gay part of course) You could really see that in Cooke/Lucious and Cookie/Jamals interaction when playing that song.Yes, I got that vibe as well. Cookie doesn't have to worry about Andre because he is self reliant. She also is timid to approach him because she thinks he is ashamed of her. So she keeps waiting for him to reach out to her. If you notice, whenever Andre deigns to give her attention Cookie is kind, and loving. As we have seen in a previous episode, Cookie is willing to do what it takes to prove her love to Andre even though she knows Andre is trying to use her. Edited January 23, 2015 by mistyknight 3 Link to comment
Minneapple January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 Taraji hits it out of the park in all her scenes. I really wish her character in Person of Interest had not gotten killed off. I still have not forgiven Person of Interest for killing her off. But on the bright side, if she hadn't been killed off PoI, she wouldn't be Cookie on this show! So yay for Person of Interest? I do love Taraji in this role. It just seems like she's having so much fun. 4 Link to comment
wanderingstar January 24, 2015 Share January 24, 2015 I do love Taraji in this role. It just seems like she's having so much fun. Yes - and that's super infectious! 2 Link to comment
phoenics February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 I am obsessed with Cookie on Empire. I kinda think of her as Empress Cookie - but Queen works too! What I love about Cookie is that she's layered and multi-dimensional. In less capable hands, Cookie would be written as a ghetto stereotype. Here on Empire, she's loving, kind, fierce, loyal, passionate, vulnerable, BOSS, take charge, with insecurities about her past and where she came from. She's so real - I wish I had a Cookie in my corner, lol. Force of Nature is right. And her chemistry with Lucious - WOW. 7 Link to comment
Actionmage February 19, 2015 Author Share February 19, 2015 I wish I had a Cookie in my corner, lol. Don't we all? *g* And her chemistry with Lucious - WOW. It was demonstrated again tonight, and again? WOW. *G* Link to comment
jhlipton February 19, 2015 Share February 19, 2015 It was demonstrated again tonight, and again? WOW. *G* Anika who??? LOL 1 Link to comment
phoenics March 6, 2015 Share March 6, 2015 I was just re-watching the episode where Cookie gets to work with Elle. I think those scenes really reinforce how the writers intend for us to see Cookie as a character - she's all about being real and speaking your truth. She's all about putting her life into her music and into her work - and her life is truth. Consider how she got Elle to stop putting on airs and pretending and hiding. She made Elle get rid of everything that was fake - the hair, the fur, the eyelashes, the heavy makeup - everything Elle was hiding behind, she made her get rid of it. That's Cookie. She's real and she's the truth and she relates to people through that truth. Sometimes it comes off as brash, loud, over the top - and folks have characterized her as a hood rat or an ABW, but I think those labels are unfair. Sometimes when you live your truth, you can go too far. Perhaps that's why she's all gas and no brakes - I guess being in prison 17 years with your life on hold can kinda make you want to have your foot on the gas all the time. Plus, everyone is already thinking mess about her because she's an ex-con, so why not just live out loud? Cookie will probably soften around the edges eventually, once she settles into her life and is able to really live on her own terms. Right now, she's hustling and trying to make her way - so that comes with a bit of an edge. Anyway - just my thoughts. I think the reason why I identify with Cookie and don't really get Anika is because she is still hiding behind a mask. We don't see her real face - ever - there is an air of falseness about her - I think the show tends to bury her in heavy makeup (why? she's gorgeous and doesn't need it) and very harsh clothing in order to sell her as a hard business woman or something and perhaps a cold woman in contrast to Cookie's warmth. It'd be nice to see both women soften up. 3 Link to comment
ribboninthesky1 March 7, 2015 Share March 7, 2015 From the episode thread: To me, Cookie seems to pretty much forgive Lucious for divorcing her and leaving her to rot in prison. I figure it's supposed to be that she loves the boys and the business and him so much, she agrees that him cutting her out of his life while she served her term was the best thing for all. Very much the martyr, which I think is why she went to prison (and not him) in the first place. I was hoping this would not happen, which is why I've lost interest in Cookie. Cookie operates as if Empire is just as much hers as Lucious', and I must have missed the scenes where Lucious authorized Cookie as co-CEO, or otherwise made arrangements for Cookie to inherit the company should he die or otherwise be incapacitated. Maybe that occurred in the episodes I didn't watch. Otherwise, despite her savvy and moxie, Cookie's got the few million he gave her at the beginning, and is working hard...for whose benefit? She presumably has yet to receive a return on the artists she manages. Was she given a guarantee that she'll have a stake in the company? What prevents Lucious from acting in his best interest, and leaving her out, as he has done years prior to her release and into the present? It's been suggested before that Cookie is playing a long con, and I hope so. Otherwise, she's not nearly as smart as the show portrays. It's great that she has agency, but I'd like to see her more powerful. Cookie clearly has a big heart, and that's nice, if predictable. But as it stands, the power is solely in the hands of Lucious, and there's little to suggest that he's planning to transfer any to her. Link to comment
jhlipton March 8, 2015 Share March 8, 2015 (edited) Cookie has a seat on the board. That alone brings in a share of the company's earnings. on top of anything else. Plus, she's determined to make her sons succeed and Empire is the entity to achieve that. Edited March 8, 2015 by jhlipton 2 Link to comment
ribboninthesky1 March 8, 2015 Share March 8, 2015 (edited) I don't know how it works on Empire, but I thought board members who also work for a Company weren't compensated. Given that she's managing at least three Empire artists, I assume she's an Empire employee. Maybe she's drawing a salary on top of the payout she received early on. Nevertheless, she could still be left with nothing. Lucious still holds all the cards, and their sons seem to have no executive power. Her sons could reasonably succeed outside of Empire. Family loyalty seems to be the main tie, but that's largely one-way street that Lucious primarily benefits from. Edited March 8, 2015 by ribboninthesky1 Link to comment
netlyon2 March 8, 2015 Share March 8, 2015 I was just re-watching the episode where Cookie gets to work with Elle. I think those scenes really reinforce how the writers intend for us to see Cookie as a character - she's all about being real and speaking your truth. She's all about putting her life into her music and into her work - and her life is truth. Consider how she got Elle to stop putting on airs and pretending and hiding. She made Elle get rid of everything that was fake - the hair, the fur, the eyelashes, the heavy makeup - everything Elle was hiding behind, she made her get rid of it. That's Cookie. She's real and she's the truth and she relates to people through that truth. Sometimes it comes off as brash, loud, over the top - and folks have characterized her as a hood rat or an ABW, but I think those labels are unfair. Sometimes when you live your truth, you can go too far. Perhaps that's why she's all gas and no brakes - I guess being in prison 17 years with your life on hold can kinda make you want to have your foot on the gas all the time. Plus, everyone is already thinking mess about her because she's an ex-con, so why not just live out loud? I so agree with what you're saying here. What's really frustrating to me (and several other posters, judging by the episode thread) is that these labels get slapped onto the character (and, honestly, many women of color) based on a selective sampling of her scenes. The loud, no-holds-barred behavior that gets Cookie called a "ghetto hood rat" and ABW comprises, what, maybe 40% of her scenes? We've seen her be gentle, playful, humble, vulnerable, passionate, compassionate, businesslike, savvy, maternal, etc. in pretty much every episode, but these sides of her character get ignored in favor of the easy labels. Granted, part of the reason for this is that "no brakes" Cookie has hilarious one-liners (often in conjunction with Porsha), so many people probably remember those first. Another part is probably that the story constantly puts her in those antagonistic scenes where she is defending her territory. However, that doesn't change the reality that we've seen plenty of times when Cookie applied the breaks. What this week's conversation has really underscored for me is the lack of female relationships on the show. I should have seen it coming with a core family of four men and one woman, but I did have hopes. The most consistently written female relationships for Cookie are the ones with Anika (antagonistic, hence ABW) and Porsha (often in "no brakes" mode), neither of which showcases those other sides of the character. It's frustrating, because I absolutely love her relationships with Tiana and Elle, both of whom add depth to Cookie's story and character beyond the central question of who gets the empire. I also thought the one scene that Cookie and Rhonda were allowed to have together was promising, and I really hope that those two team up at some point. Camille is just going to be another antagonist, but what about Cookie's sister, Titan's mother, or even Becky? Give me something, show. I don't know how it works on Empire, but I thought board members who also work for a Company weren't compensated. Given that she's managing at least three Empire artists, I assume she's an Empire employee. Maybe she's drawing a salary on top of the payout she received early on. Nevertheless, she could still be left with nothing. Lucious still holds all the cards, and their sons seem to have no executive power. Her sons could reasonably succeed outside of Empire. Family loyalty seems to be the main tie, but that's largely one-way street that Lucious primarily benefits from. One of the things that Cookie is fighting for is the chance to prove herself as a producer, which she is doing with Jamal (natural talent who is blowing up), Tiana (budding superstar who recognized the hustle and left Anika to work with Cookie), and Elle (counted-out "has been" who just needed care and a firm hand). It seems that the thing Cookie abhors most is being lazy; she is always on her grind. That work ethic should pay off--in the short term by putting her in the now-vacant A&R position, and in the long run by building her a solid (and bankable) reputation. If the Empire goes down, I think she'll be okay. 3 Link to comment
aprilbabe March 8, 2015 Share March 8, 2015 I think Lucious is paying for her basic living expenses. Apartment, bills etc. and she got an actual settlement, plus when cookie tried to give Jamal cash he wouldn't take it because it was lucious money. But she does have a salary, in the pilot she asked for 5 mil and Lucious said he could only get her 3 a year. She now manages 3 people. Doesn't the individual artist pay the manager not the record co? I am assuming she's gonna become head of A&r now that Boo boo kitty's gone. The reason why she works so hard for the company is because that was her dream too, her dream job, she invested and did time for this and she wants it to succeed or else what she did was for nothing. Link to comment
ribboninthesky1 March 8, 2015 Share March 8, 2015 I hadn't thought about the A&R vacancy upon Anika's departure, so that's a good point. It's more defined that her current status. I thought the money Lucious gave Cookie was a one-time deal, not annual salary. At the time, it was hush money, if I recall correctly. Empire was already successful before she arrived, so she's fighting for her piece of the pie. The show presumably knows what it has in the character, so hopefully there will be some specific, individual payoff for Cookie. It's fine if she is fighting for her son(s) as well, but it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive from her own power. We'll see. Lee Daniels doesn't inspire much confidence, from what I've seen with his films and lead female characters. Link to comment
aprilbabe March 8, 2015 Share March 8, 2015 When they first met when she got our of jail in his office she said she wanted 5 mil a year he said the board would never approve 5 that he could get her close to 3. So she is on salary at empire along with probably a settlement lucious paid her. Link to comment
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