Unpopular Opinions: All Alone in Purgatory

[millahnna]

I loved Hawley and everything they were doing with him until they made him interested in Jenny instead of Abby and then only because it felt like an abrupt writing shift. His chemistry with the cast was great and I think he made a really interesting potential romantic interest for Abby because of their being such opposites.

[phoenics]

I loved Hawley and everything they were doing with him until they made him interested in Jenny instead of Abby and then only because it felt like an abrupt writing shift. His chemistry with the cast was great and I think he made a really interesting potential romantic interest for Abby because of their being such opposites.

Yup - that's why if they brought him back, it could only be as a foil to Joenny. I think Joe/Hawley would play off of each other hilariously. Joe is so adorable and sweet - and straightforward. Hawley and Jenny have history and Hawley is a scoundrel. It'd be like watching Luke and Han fight over Leia (forget that Luke and Leia are related and just go with me here).

I do wish they hadn't messed up a potential Abby/Hawley romance with dragging poor Jenny into it - seeing Hawley come back (especially if Crane really has developed feelings for Abbie and is in love with her) to the show after we get Abbie back and seeing her bond with him while Crane pines would be awesome.

But that's not going to happen (Hawley, I mean). But I do miss how hot he was - and cute!

But we have Lance Gross. He's hot too - but they don't do enough, imo to show HOW hot he is. In real life, my friend says he's hotter than onscreen. She saw him in the airport and she said the side of his face must have been ON FIRE because she was staring so hard... she says he really didn't want to look to see who was looking at him, but she COMPELLED HIM with her gaze and he looked, lol! This story is much funnier when she tells it. But she says he's MORE fine in person than on screen.

*fans self*

[fantique]

I donn't like Sophie. I don't see what she brings to the show that is not already covered by their 16000 cast members and the character feels like an Abbie-lite version. I can only hope that the actress' regular status means Reynolds level of screentime. I am certainly ticked off that the FBI storyline was meant to benefit Abbie's character growth and it was quickly rendered moot on that front since she was essentially just doing witness stuff with an FBI badge and now that she's gone they are expanding that story. Problem is, I stopped caring about the FBI stuff. I know it's going to happen and annoy me so I have two months to chill; I am sure Sophie will be linked to the Papa Mills storyline (not as their sister or whatever but as part of the team) and Jenny. I am not here for her (and Reynolds) being part of the team. I will be fair and say that I don't mind the actress and thought she was a lot less insufferable once she had something to do other than being snarky or smug.

[jhlipton]

I think Joe/Hawley would play off of each other hilariously. Joe is so adorable and sweet - and straightforward. Hawley and Jenny have history and Hawley is a scoundrel. It'd be like watching Luke and Han fight over Leia (forget that Luke and Leia are related and just go with me here).

 

If they brought Hawley back, I think that he should come with his own (off-screen) love interest.  But at this point, I don't see what he adds.  He was mostly a means for sidelining Jenny -- now that the adults are in charge, she and Joe more than make up for Hawley's plot-lines.

[Enero]

If they brought Hawley back, I think that he should come with his own (off-screen) love interest.  But at this point, I don't see what he adds.  He was mostly a means for sidelining Jenny -- now that the adults are in charge, she and Joe more than make up for Hawley's plot-lines.

Agreed. I was okay with Hawley when he first came to Sleepy Hollow, but once it became clear that he was just a replacement for Jenny I wanted him gone. Everything he did and knew, the same could be (can be) said for Jenny. I really see no reason to bring him back and especially not with a love interest in tow or even a rekindling interest in Jenny, no just no. If her and Joe are going to have issues there's plenty of obstacles besides another man that can do that. Furthermore, I think the show has more than enough cast members, at this point.

Don't know if this is unpopular opinion or not, but I don't miss Irving. I was extremely disappointed when I learned that Orlando Jones wouldn't be returning to the show. But I have to say I don't feel a hole was left by his absence. I wouldn't be opposed to him coming back for an episode or two though if it made sense to the story.

[Yolapukka]

 

Don't know if this is unpopular opinion or not, but I don't miss Irving. I was extremely disappointed when I learned that Orlando Jones wouldn't be returning to the show. But I have to say I don't feel a hole was left by his absence. I wouldn't be opposed to him coming back for an episode or two though if it made sense to the story.

 

 

I was dumbfounded when he was let go, but now I have no idea how they'd incorporate him successfully into the story they are telling. There would be a level of fuckery in keeping him incorporated in the Scooby gang in the context of his family situation, I don't know how they'd work that in or work around it without the results being somewhat jarring. 

[phoenics]

Yeah - even I'm amazed at how much I don't miss Irving. Orlando I do miss - though sometimes he's still Trollando and I enjoy that... I realized I mostly missed his one-man social media show.

[vanarnd1]

Yeah I think the issue is once Irving was no longer the police chief there was not really room for him in the overall story . I liked the dynamic of him, Abbie, and Crane working together in Season 1 but sticking him in Tarrytown for a large portion of last season was a mistake, and I am not sure how he could have been used even if they brought Orlando back considering he would have being an accused murderer to deal with. I think in the end the show did the right thing in having Abbie,Crane, and Jenny as the only holdovers from Season 2 and pretty much starting over otherwise

[jhlipton]

even if they brought Orlando back considering he would have being an accused murderer to deal with

 

We learned in Maiden Quest on Grimm that a mere Detective can decide what charges a murderer can face (including none at all), so by that logic 'm sure Reynolds can wipe Frank's record clean.

[Enero]

Yeah I think the issue is once Irving was no longer the police chief there was not really room for him in the overall story . I liked the dynamic of him, Abbie, and Crane working together in Season 1 but sticking him in Tarrytown for a large portion of last season was a mistake, and I am not sure how he could have been used even if they brought Orlando back considering he would have being an accused murderer to deal with. I think in the end the show did the right thing in having Abbie,Crane, and Jenny as the only holdovers from Season 2 and pretty much starting over otherwise

I forgot which episode, but the charges were dropped against Frank. So he no longer has the murder charges hanging over his head.

[AmandaPanda]

Yeah - even I'm amazed at how much I don't miss Irving. Orlando I do miss - though sometimes he's still Trollando and I enjoy that... I realized I mostly missed his one-man social media show.

 

This is exactly where I am. I was never a big fan of Irving, but I loved the fan presence Orlando brought to social media. 

[HalcyonDays]

This is exactly where I am. I was never a big fan of Irving, but I loved the fan presence Orlando brought to social media. 

 

Funny, looks like this is not really an unpopular opinion after all. I don't miss Irving either, tbh. Joe is a much better addition to team Witness. But I did love Frank/Jenny chemistry.

[topanga]

UO: I hate that Abbie and Crane are both so asexual. I get that they're Witnesses. I get that they're focused on Jenny and Pandora and fighting monsters. I get that Crane recently lost his Witch Wife--although he didn't seem too horny for her even when she was alive. But Crane and Abbie never talk about crushing on people or who they think is hot or how many dates Crane thinks he needs with Zoe before he's in there. I know, I know, Crane isn't like that. But why not? 18th century men were still sexual creatures. They weren't all married, and they didn't only have sex with their wives. Crane doesn't seem to know that sex and sexual attraction even exist. 

 

Abbie still feels something for Reynolds, but it's not very clear what it is. Is she still attracted to him (at least, before he kept vital information from her)? Or is she simply melancholic about their past relationship? And why the heck doesn't she talk to Crane about it? I get that she's a private person and is focused on her work, but Abbie managed to open up with Crane early on about her past problems with Jenny, her feelings of guilt for abandoning her--and that was episode 2 of the series. She shared details with him about her childhood and her relationship with her mother. Can't she even have a throwaway line about not having time for love, instead of the show just pretending that she's not a young woman with normal urges and feelings? 

 

And why is Reynolds the only one pointing out that it's awfully strange for two healthy, heterosexual adults who spend all day together and go home at night together not to be anything more than roommates? I mean, it happens, I'm sure. But not in TV Land. 

[Julia]

But Crane and Abbie never talk about crushing on people or who they think is hot or how many dates Crane thinks he needs with Zoe before he's in there. I know, I know, Crane isn't like that. But why not? 18th century men were still sexual creatures. They weren't all married, and they didn't only have sex with their wives. Crane doesn't seem to know that sex and sexual attraction even exist. 

 

Not that I don't agree with the weirdness of the elephant in the room, but I have to acquit them on this one. For an eighteenth century man to talk about sex with an unmarried woman would have signaled that he thought she was a fallen women/not a virgin, which in his day meant a woman not to be treated with any respect at all. And in that, he's consistent, because SBR clearly was using sex in the service of whatever her mission was, and the only time Crane has brought it up was a stilted comment about her 'affections'.

[Enero]

UO: I hate that Abbie and Crane are both so asexual.

 

Though IMO there's amazing chemistry between Abbie and Crane that could easily translate to sexual tension, if the writers (and actors) played it up, I agree. At this point, both characters are asexual.

 

 

 

But Crane and Abbie never talk about crushing on people or who they think is hot or how many dates Crane thinks he needs with Zoe before he's in there.

 

Well Crane seemed to alluded to this at the end of 3x6 when telling Abbie his date with Zoe was a “tiny patch of paradise’ and Abbie responded that he shouldn’t get ahead of himself. I think that might be the most Crane will say when discussing his potential sexual entanglements with Abbie. As Julia said it’s just not how 18th century men behave around a woman they respect. And though Crane is coming into his own as a 21st century American man, I can’t see him becoming that modernized to discuss such things with Abbie, that’s what Joe is for. LOL. Furthermore, I would find it to be completely OCC for either character to begin discussing their sexual conquests with each other.

[topanga]

 

And though Crane is coming into his own as a 21st century American man, I can’t see him becoming that modernized to discuss such things with Abbie, that’s what Joe is for. LOL. Furthermore, I would find it to be completely OCC for either character to begin discussing their sexual conquests with each other.

I was exaggerating slightly. No, I don't really expect Crane and Abbie to discuss their sexual conquests with one another. I just wish the character development that began wouldn't have abruptly ended in Season 2. They were beginning to become more well-rounded, 3-dimensional characters, and I feel that angle has been dropped. I still like them as characters, and their platonic chemistry remains off the charts. But they don't feel like fully-formed characters, and I'm afraid we're running out of time for that character development to get back on track. 

[jhlipton]

UO: I hate that Abbie and Crane are both so asexual.

 

We know that Crane wasn't completely asexual -- he did have a son with StrugleWitch.  As for Abbie, I never got the feeling that her any of her relationships -- with Luke and Andy, and certainly not with Reynolds -- were asexual.  

 

But they don't feel like fully-formed characters, and I'm afraid we're running out of time for that character development to get back on track. 

 

There were SO many problems created in Season 2 that character development, at least as far as sexual relationships go, have to take a back seat (so to speak) to the other fixes (Putting Abbie front and center, pulling Jenny and Joe into the "Scooby Gang" as full-fledged members, redeeming Ich at least a little from his horrid behavior) the TPTB have been making.  I'm still hopeful we'll get a Season 4, and more development can proceed.

[topanga]

 

We know that Crane wasn't completely asexual -- he did have a son with StrugleWitch.  As for Abbie, I never got the feeling that her any of her relationships -- with Luke and Andy, and certainly not with Reynolds -- were asexual.

I know they aren't actually asexual. There's the child, Abbie's past relationships (and Reynolds' vague references to passionate moments), and Crane's (albeit bland) kisses with Katrina. But this season especially, they're being portrayed as functionally asexual creatures, and any history of sexual activity is a whispery vision that's been locked in Purgatory.  And even though Crane and Abbie have a sexual history, it seems like just that--ancient history. Their sexual present is non-existent. And neither of them seems to mind. Or even notice. When Abbie is encouraging Crane to date Zoe, she never says Zoe is cute, or they seem compatible or Crane seems to like her, but she basically tells him it would be good for him to date someone. To help take his mind off Katrina. She was being very practical and doesn't seem to have a romantic bone in her body. 

 

Contrast Crane and Abby to Jenny. In the first season, even when she was being a badass and was in a gun standoff with an old contact (the redneck possibly White Supremacist group), the head redneck was all, "Girl, I could never say no to you." And Jenny countered with a sly look. That didn't mean she'd hooked up with the dude, but it was obvious that Jenny wasn't shy about using her feminine wiles during her adventures. When she first saw Crane, she asked Abbie about the hot British dude, and Abbie was all, "Whattttt????" as if she'd never noticed he was a handsome man. Jenny also had that undeniable chemistry with the Captain which could have gone somewhere if season 2 hadn't veered off in another direction.

 

In Season 2, even though we hardly saw Jenny, we learned about her past relationship with Hawley which she tried to rekindle (and we witnessed a not bland kiss), and we saw Jenny sitting at a bar one night maybe hoping to hook up with someone. And this season, there was a slow build toward a potential relationship between her and Joe.

[savinggrace]

I've only now begun DVRing this season and boy is it hard to watch. This season's plotlines only cemented my belief that Jenny was a completely unnecessary character brought in only as backup because the writers did not view Nicole Beharie as a sexually viable lead. Abbie's continued asexuality only brings the point home that Hollywood does not know what to do with darker hued Black actresses and as a result neglect their character development particularly when it comes to romance.

 

The side plot going on with Jenny and Joe is completely unnecessary , decidedly unscary, and distracting from the Witnesses story and mission. Everything Jenny does could have been done by Abbie including all the romantic interests assigned to her. Removing Jenny from the picture, would have netted a rather sweet opposites-attract relationship with Hawley. Since Abbie apparently babysat Joe Corbin, if they were going to re-introduce this boring character his ties and working relationship should be with Abbie.

[jhlipton]

This season's plotlines only cemented my belief that Jenny was a completely unnecessary character brought in only as backup because the writers did not view Nicole Beharie as a sexually viable lead. 

 

My mileage couldn't vary more from yours at all. I don't see Abbie as "asexual" in the least. As for Joe and Jenny being unscary, I hope you revisit that oncew you've finished the season.

[savinggrace]

My mileage couldn't vary more from yours at all. I don't see Abbie as "asexual" in the least. As for Joe and Jenny being unscary, I hope you revisit that oncew you've finished the season.

I think Nicole Beharie is beautiful and sexy but her character has never been on a date, been kissed or had anything other than a platonic relationship with anyone on the show -- she doesn't even seem to have any friends. Apparently there was a one year time jump yet no evidence that Abby had any sort of romantic fulfillment. Is she celibate?

[Enero]

I think Nicole Beharie is beautiful and sexy but her character has never been on a date, been kissed or had anything other than a platonic relationship with anyone on the show -- she doesn't even seem to have any friends. Apparently there was a one year time jump yet no evidence that Abby had any sort of romantic fulfillment. Is she celibate?

Well she did have a romance with Luke and in the 9 months in between this season and last she was romantically involved with Danny, who is now her boss at the FBI. So there has been reference to her having at the very least sexual fulfillment during that 9 month period.

That said, I understand viewers wanting to see these relationships on screen not just be told about them. I do think though that Abbie's lack of love onscreen is two fold, of course it's the writers' choice. This could be because they don't want to write romance for a darker woman of color. Or it could be a characteristic of the character of Abbie. She has made it clear on more than one occasion that fighting the apocalypse leaves no time, in her opinion, for romance because saving the world comes first. But I personally think Abbie's reasoning is an excuse and her reluctance to get involved, especially seriously involved stems from some personal issues she has with abandonment but that's a conversation for another thread.

[jhlipton]

I think Nicole Beharie is beautiful and sexy but her character has never been on a date, been kissed or had anything other than a platonic relationship with anyone on the show

 

It could be much worse.  On the Blandspot (I will never stop calling it that), they are pushing the leads into a romance, regardless of the fact that No-Lips Twiggystein and Mumbles "Stubby" McGrumpy have no chemistry at all.

[Julia]

But I personally think Abbie's reasoning is an excuse and her reluctance to get involved, especially seriously involved stems from some personal issues she has with abandonment but that's a conversation for another thread.

This actually resonates for me. I think they've handled Abbie's emotional development in to say the least a tone-insensitive way, but the character they seem to me to be writing her as isn't a woman at all, it's Leroy Gibbs from NCIS. We keep hearing he's a lady's man, and he has 147 failed relationships, but he keeps everyone at a distance because of his foundational trauma and we've seen him actially show onscreen interest in a scant handful of episodes over thirteen seasons. Not sexless so much as having relegated sex to unimportance because he's too damaged to make a connection or trust one.

[HalcyonDays]

Or it could be a characteristic of the character of Abbie. She has made it clear on more than one occasion that fighting the apocalypse leaves no time, in her opinion, for romance because saving the world comes first. But I personally think Abbie's reasoning is an excuse and her reluctance to get involved, especially seriously involved stems from some personal issues she has with abandonment but that's a conversation for another thread.

 

That's what I believe it is, and have since season 1 (remember, she dumped Luke for Quantico), and the writers have said as much. She fears losing people she loves (because it happened when she was a kid) and therefore prevents herself from falling in too deep. That is what is being explored this season, and she'll soon make that realization and realize the consequences of her closing herself to romantic relationships.

 

Unpopular opinion: I think Cliff Campbell is doing a good job with this season and setting up a amazing and eye-opening second half of the season.

[jhlipton]

Unpopular opinion: I think Cliff Campbell is doing a good job with this season and setting up a amazing and eye-opening second half of the season.

 

Not unpopular with me -- I'm right there with you.  Just call me TranquilityNights!

[Miss Dee]

I'm there too. In fact, I posted in the general UO thread that I think Season 3 is better than Season 1 in a way because it's more measured and sustainable. Season 1 was a beautiful supernova of a story...but maybe that could never have lasted, not at that pace and level of batshit!craziness.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Miss Dee

[Zara]

I'm new to the show (relatively since I started by binge watching by last Oct).

 

My very own unpopular opinions:

 

- This show seems to be made for Nickelodeon audience.  Everybody with a warm blood can relate with the thrill of desiring someone and fulfilling a passionate romance. No need to go into a Scandal like show but some flirting, some innuendo or a passionate kiss once in a while would go a long way.  

 

- I dislike the whole FBI introduction.  I found more charming when Abbie was lieutenant in Sleepy Hollow and everything was kept as a quaint, unprepared small town thing. I like the 'Fargo' vibe that was attached to it and the fact that Abbie relied more on her wits and intelligence instead of having access to a highly functional and professional organization. Plus, if it was already a little unrealistic that Ichabod could tag along Abbie on her cases before, now it just becomes plain unbelievable.  I can't phantom that FBI would not have vetted, investigated and probed someone as suspicious as an weirdo like Ichabod character hanging around so close to agent Abbie. 

 

-  I am very glad they brought Joe back instead of Hawley.  I never like that character and he was borderline gross, probably because he was so cliche ( bad boy but then good heart, womanizer, buff blond looks)  I'm reading so much hate for Joe but I found refreshing that there is a male character that can actually have a bromance with Ichabod instead of the tiresome piss contest dynamic. They brought Reynolds for that apparently. 

 

- Although I have love for the Joe + Jenny relationship, it feels a cheap replacement for a much more convincing romance between the leads.  We are asked to believe that Joe and Jenny went from friends to lovers in two minutes of interaction while the much longer and profound relationship between the two leads is kept as platonic. It just become way harder to justify why romance grown out of friendship is so natural for one sister and so taboo for the other.  If the intention was to appease the fans, it may just have the opposite effect. 

 

- Abbie is no victim. Of anything. Ichabod is no coward or ever dishonorable or abusive towards her. Judging by some opinions, Abbie is trapped in some kind of abusive relationship where  she is always the caring one and Ichabod is lacking or taking advantage of her. That could never be true with the Abbie that is portrayed in the show.  There is so much nip picking on Ichabod's slightest actions towards Abbie but we see scenes that clearly shows Abbie is a control freak ( as Jenny clarified) that would never subject herself to do or be done what she doesn't want to. If anything, she is the one defining their dynamic more than the other way around.  We see for instance a scene where Abbie dryly cuts Ichabod's question about Reynolds with a 'none of your business' quip. This is a direct contrast to Abbie accessing Ichabod's phone and reading his personal messages -- something that not even couples may do ---and then meddling into his love life and pushing him into meeting Zoe.  I can only imagine the outrage if it had been Ichabod committing such blatant act of 'disrespect' for Abbie's privacy.  

So, my unpopular opinion in this case is that Ichabod and Abbie are very well adjusted and balanced in their caring for each other as well as their own shortcomings in their relationship. 

Edited January 15, 2016 by Zara

[LeeLeePanda]

I'm new to the show (relatively since I started by binge watching by last Oct).

My very own unpopular opinions:

- This show seems to be made for Nickelodeon audience. Everybody with a warm blood can relate with the thrill of desiring someone and fulfilling a passionate romance. No need to go into a Scandal like show but some flirting, some innuendo or a passionate kiss once in a while would go a long way.

- I dislike the whole FBI introduction. I found more charming when Abbie was lieutenant in Sleepy Hollow and everything was kept as a quaint, unprepared small town thing. I like the 'Fargo' vibe that was attached to it and the fact that Abbie relied more on her wits and intelligence instead of having access to a highly functional and professional organization. Plus, if it was already a little unrealistic that Ichabod could tag along Abbie on her cases before, now it just becomes plain unbelievable. I can't phantom that FBI would not have vetted, investigated and probed someone as suspicious as an weirdo like Ichabod character hanging around so close to agent Abbie.

- I am very glad they brought Joe back instead of Hawley. I never like that character and he was borderline gross, probably because he was so cliche ( bad boy but then good heart, womanizer, buff blond looks) I'm reading so much hate for Joe but I found refreshing that there is a male character that can actually have a bromance with Ichabod instead of the tiresome piss contest dynamic. They brought Reynolds for that apparently.

- Although I have love for the Joe + Jenny relationship, it feels a cheap replacement for a much more convincing romance between the leads. We are asked to believe that Joe and Jenny went from friends to lovers in two minutes of interaction while the much longer and profound relationship between the two leads is kept as platonic. It just become way harder to justify why romance grown out of friendship is so natural for one sister and so taboo for the other. If the intention was to appease the fans, it may just have the opposite effect.

- Abbie is no victim. Of anything. Ichabod is no coward or ever dishonorable or abusive towards her. Judging by some opinions, Abbie is trapped in some kind of abusive relationship where she is always the caring one and Ichabod is lacking or taking advantage of her. That could never be true with the Abbie that is portrayed in the show. There is so much nip picking on Ichabod's slightest actions towards Abbie but we see scenes that clearly shows Abbie is a control freak ( as Jenny clarified) that would never subject herself to do or be done what she doesn't want to. If anything, she is the one defining their dynamic more than the other way around. We see for instance a scene where Abbie dryly cuts Ichabod's question about Reynolds with a 'none of your business' quip. This is a direct contrast to Abbie accessing Ichabod's phone and reading his personal messages -- something that not even couples may do ---and then meddling into his love life and pushing him into meeting Zoe. I can only imagine the outrage if it had been Ichabod committing such blatant act of 'disrespect' for Abbie's privacy.

So, my unpopular opinion in this case is that Ichabod and Abbie are very well adjusted and balanced in their caring for each other as well as their own shortcomings in their relationship.

I agree about the G rated romance on this show. It's actually really weird to me. I don't want them to sex it up to Scandal levels, but I too would like to see some passionate kissing. I'd especially love to see it between Abbie and Crane, but that may be asking too much.

[Dizzychickstar]

I agree tho some of those Disney pairings generate more heat than what we've been privy to.

[kieyra]

I think Nicole Beharie is beautiful and sexy but her character has never been on a date, been kissed or had anything other than a platonic relationship with anyone on the show -- she doesn't even seem to have any friends. Apparently there was a one year time jump yet no evidence that Abby had any sort of romantic fulfillment. Is she celibate?

Late, but I've commented in other threads how NB/Abbie is cold with everyone this season, bordering or robotic. Maybe there is a "psychological" reason but it doesn't enable the viewers to connect if we don't know what it is.

[allyw]

Pandora may not be as bad as Katrina, sexy Betsey Ross and The Hidden One but I don't find her interesting at all.

Other than a couple episodes, this season is freaking boring.

[CooperTV]

My main complaint this season specifically is that they made Abbie/Crane incredibly one-sided. Ichabod is caring, loving and acting basically like Abbie's husband in all ways that matter this season: he always stresses how their bond is special and unlike anything that happened to him, he's territorial, he's respectful of her boundaries, he wants her to be happy, he's passionate about her (even in very platonic way). And Abbie seems to act like they're buddies or like he's her annoying little brother, that's why she doesn't particularly care about his boundaries or his feelings and that comes off as dismissive and cold to me in their interactions. The first couple of episodes were better about that than the season overall.

[FierceAfroChick]

- I dislike the whole FBI introduction.  I found more charming when Abbie was lieutenant in Sleepy Hollow and everything was kept as a quaint, unprepared small town thing. I like the 'Fargo' vibe that was attached to it and the fact that Abbie relied more on her wits and intelligence instead of having access to a highly functional and professional organization. Plus, if it was already a little unrealistic that Ichabod could tag along Abbie on her cases before, now it just becomes plain unbelievable.  I can't phantom that FBI would not have vetted, investigated and probed someone as suspicious as an weirdo like Ichabod character hanging around so close to agent Abbie. 

 

 

 

I definitely agree with you here.  It made more sense that Abbie was able to investigate the strange happenings in Sleepy Hollow as a local cop.  And the strange angle could've allowed for whoever the Captain is to approve of Crane as a consultant (and allow for some sort of stipend as well...dude needs a job). 

 

Not sure how jurisdiction works with the FBI, but it seems kind of farfetched that she’s conveniently called in on all cases involving SH.  You mean to tell me the FBI is called in on a murder case before the local authorities are?  And then they’re conveniently having FBI training exercises in the woods surrounding SH?  I wouldn’t mind at all if Abbie went back to the sheriff’s office.

[TaurusRose]

My unpopular opinion is this: I think the showrunner(s), writers, etc. are jerking our chains regarding a full-blown romance between Abbie Mills and Ichabod Crane. I have tried to "keep hope alive," but Incommunicado exceeded my tolerance level for bullshit. Also, I liked Jenny before she and Joe got together. Now I want to punch her in the face every time I see her, and her relationship with Joe is one step above cringe-worthy. I'm indifferent towards Joe at this point. They have no chemistry or heat. I felt nothing when she talked beastly Joe down and told him she loved him. Really? REALLY?! Which moron working on SH thinks anybody gives a flying fuck about Joe and Jenny? I am bordering on major dislike for them as individuals and as a couple. Nothing would make me happier than being proven wrong about the direction of SH and having my attitude changed before the season finale, but I am not holding out any hope for a miracle at this point.

[Three]

Okay. Just throwing this out there, and I know I’m not the first, but I think that there is a good possibility that Sophie is Crane and Abbie’s daughter and she knows this. My evidence?

The temple in the Catacombs is very Mayan looking. And that’s where her parents went missing. There’s no other Mayan mythology in the show.
I initially thought that there was a frisson when Crane and Sophie first meet (which I was bummed about because ichabbie), but then looking back I think it may have been a ‘that’s my dad’ moment. She also responds to him a bit like a teenager responding to a dorky dad.

When she and Abbie are walking in the woods together by themselves in Into the Wild, it really feels like a mother-daughter time. There’s just something about it.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if Ezra knows this.

She also seems to encapsulate a lot of Crane and Abbie’s best traits. BAMF and academic.

Anyway, thin, I know, and probably far-fetched. Although NR did say “past and future”. I just needed to say it.

I spend way too much time thinking about this show.

[Miss Dee]

Yeah I'm on board with that scenario too. Would that mean Ichabod and Abbie would have to time travel back a few decades, I wonder? Maybe a change of time and place where they don't know anyone else could be the catalyst for them acknowledging their love.

Or they could meet up with Corbin! Conveniently played now by Zach Appelman! And a young Ezra! And that's how Corbin and Ezra get involved with the supernatural and why Corbin tracks down young Abbie in the future! And they longer they're there, the more Sophie remembers of her parents in the present!

Not sure how the show would survive a two-pronged time/place structure like that, but it's fun to imagine.

[Three]

Yay! I'm not alone. Although I think she's come from the future to sort some stuff out.

[AD55]

Okay. Just throwing this out there, and I know I’m not the first, but I think that there is a good possibility that Sophie is Crane and Abbie’s daughter and she knows this. My evidence?

 

The more I think about this, the more plausible it seems. I will feel cheated if this is the impetus for Abbie and Ichabod discovering they love each other (well, Abbie, at least. We know Ichabod is head over heels). It would be a quick and dirty way of getting them together in the finale. "Hey, we made a kid together. We must have fallen in love at some point. Cool."

[HalcyonDays]

that Sophie is Crane and Abbie’s daughter and she knows this

 

I've seen this theory floating around a lot so it's actually a pretty popular opinion...possible, but Sophie doesn't quite act like it. If Ichabod and Abbie were her parents, you'd think she'd discourage her mother from dating Danny? Unless that is what is supposed to happen and if Sophie interferes, then messing with timelines, course of history, etc etc.

 

There is only one more episode. Too much going on to include that plot line too.

 

Unpopular Opinion. I'm perfectly fine if Ichabbie don't kiss this final episode, or declare their love for each other, but ONLY if we get a season 4 and they start to explore the romantic side of Ichabbie.

 

Another UO: I do not want any boringly typical trope romantic declarations of "I Love You" when we haven't even seen these two date!! In fact, I hope they never say it on the show. And no babies. Ever. I want to see Ichabod and Abbie navigate the world as a couple, not married, not pregnant. Swoony in love/lust absolutely. I want the lusty teasing, the flirting, the dates, etc - basically the fun part of a relationship - which most people experience in the beginning. Since they already act "married", it would be awesome for them to in a way go backwards and explore them dating. Especially Crane learning how dating works 21st century style.

 

And again - no marriage, no proposal (well, maybe this) and no babies.

[Watermelon]

I don't want Sophie to be their child.  I would much prefer to find out her family is part of the Mills family tree in some way, which is why they were into archaeology and how they got targeted by supernatural things.  I think a cousin would be MUCH easier for the writers to make right, as opposed to some weird time travel timeline.

[phoenics]

Okay. Just throwing this out there, and I know I’m not the first, but I think that there is a good possibility that Sophie is Crane and Abbie’s daughter and she knows this. My evidence?

The temple in the Catacombs is very Mayan looking. And that’s where her parents went missing. There’s no other Mayan mythology in the show.

I initially thought that there was a frisson when Crane and Sophie first meet (which I was bummed about because ichabbie), but then looking back I think it may have been a ‘that’s my dad’ moment. She also responds to him a bit like a teenager responding to a dorky dad.

When she and Abbie are walking in the woods together by themselves in Into the Wild, it really feels like a mother-daughter time. There’s just something about it.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if Ezra knows this.

She also seems to encapsulate a lot of Crane and Abbie’s best traits. BAMF and academic.

Anyway, thin, I know, and probably far-fetched. Although NR did say “past and future”. I just needed to say it.

I spend way too much time thinking about this show.

This would be amazing. I really love the whole academic vs BAMF part too. It does kinda make some sense - but ... hmmm... I do wish this could happen and we still get a S4 AND I want a kiss!

[Enero]

 

Unpopular Opinion. I'm perfectly fine if Ichabbie don't kiss this final episode, or declare their love for each other, but ONLY if we get a season 4 and they start to explore the romantic side of Ichabbie.

 

I'm right here with you, to a point. Even if we don't get a S4 I don't want to see Abbie and Crane declaring their love and kissing in the finale. If it did happen I'd likely be cheering like the rest of the Ichabbie shippers. But in reality, if their relationship turned romantic in the finale it would seem cheap and contrived, considering Abbie is not giving any indication at.all. that she's even remotely in love with Crane. It would not make a lick of sense for her to suddenly have an epiphany and as a result dump Daniel and run to Crane to declare her love. That scenario would work only if we'd actually seen Abbie fighting her romantic feelings for Crane, which we have not or we get a time jump that shows them already together. 

 

 

 

Another UO: I do not want any boringly typical trope romantic declarations of "I Love You" when we haven't even seen these two date!! In fact, I hope they never say it on the show. And no babies. Ever. I want to see Ichabod and Abbie navigate the world as a couple, not married, not pregnant. Swoony in love/lust absolutely. I want the lusty teasing, the flirting, the dates, etc - basically the fun part of a relationship - which most people experience in the beginning. Since they already act "married", it would be awesome for them to in a way go backwards and explore them dating. Especially Crane learning how dating works 21st century style.

And again - no marriage, no proposal (well, maybe this) and no babies.

 

 

If the show was on long enough for Abbie and Crane to be lusty, coupley and "date" cause we know they'd never get a real date with the never ending parade of monsters they'd face, I'd be okay with a declaration of love. But I agree, marriage might be a bit much, a proposal maybe, but babies absolutely not. I have no interest in seeing them go there on the show. 

Edited April 5, 2016 by Enero

[HalcyonDays]

I'm right here with you, to a point. Even if we don't get a S4 I don't want to see Abbie and Crane declaring their love and kissing in the finale. If it did happen I'd likely be cheering like the rest of the Ichabbie shippers. But in reality, if their relationship turned romantic in the finale it would seem cheap and contrived, considering Abbie is not giving any indication at.all. that she's even remotely in love with Crane. It would not make a lick of sense for her to suddenly have an epiphany and as a result dump Daniel and run to Crane to declare her love. That scenario would work only if we'd actually seen Abbie fighting her romantic feelings for Crane, which we have not or we get a time jump that shows them already together. 

If the show was on long enough for Abbie and Crane to be lusty, coupley and "date" cause we know they'd never get a real date with the never ending parade of monsters they'd face, I'd be okay with a declaration of love. But I agree, marriage might be a bit much, a proposal maybe, but babies absolutely not. I have no interest in seeing them go there on the show. 

 

That;s why I don't want to see the "I Love you". If either one utters it - yes even Crane - it cheapens the whole thing. As you said, Abbie definately has shown little to no sign of thinking of Crane as so much more. Crane, yes, but even him declaring he "loves Abbie" in whatever flowery way, would be meaningless to me and to Abbie.

 

I know many fans are hoping beyond hope there is a kiss, hence the UO.

 

Besides, most of us, when daying, have has passionate and intimate relations (kissing or otherwise) with a partner without having said the words ILU. I want that for Ichabbie too, because it's realistic to me. They will say it, but right now it's meaningless fandom bait without any substance. That's why I don't want it. Along with the babies and the cutesy little white picket fence scenario - they already have the white picket porch - that's good for me.

 

But it becomes an unpopular opinion in a way, based on what I've read elsewhere and just half of the Ichabbie fanfic out there literally is:

 

Crane: "Hello Lieutenant. How is my friend?"

Abbie: "Hey Crane. Not bad. Let's kill a demon."

Crane: "Agreed."

 

*Ichabbie almost die in demon attack.*

Ichabbie look at each other, winded. Suddenly, they run into each others arms...

 

Abbie" I love you!"

Crane, "As I love you!"

 

/kissing ensues

 

Sorry, not realistic and there is no prior connection besides the bond (as weird as that is to say). Not saying the fic is bad at all, it's just jarring in it's sudden 180 in the characters behaviours. If we have a season 4, like you said, I want to see the connection.

 

Unpopular Opinion (due to a change that's popped up the last two weeks): If there is a season 4 - I WILL be watching.

[Miss Dee]

What change is that?

My unpopular opinion is that I really liked the last episode. Without reservation. Yes, even with Rip Van Betsy and Poor Dead Naked Joe (may he rest in peace).

[HalcyonDays]

What change is that?

 

That those who were going to watch SH till the end, decided to really bail starting two weeks ago. I didn't word it right.

[Watermelon]

Is it an unpopular opinion that IDK what everyone is SOoooooo up in arms about, with Betsy returning and how this must mean bad things and such and such?

 

Like...we did this last season. And TPTB dropped us off a most excellent episode for our troubles.  After knowing the shitty folk ended on a high note, why would you not give new boss a chance, especially with one episode left?!

[CooperTV]

Is it an unpopular opinion that IDK what everyone is SOoooooo up in arms about, with Betsy returning and how this must mean bad things and such and such?

 

Like...we did this last season. And TPTB dropped us off a most excellent episode for our troubles.  After knowing the shitty folk ended on a high note, why would you not give new boss a chance, especially with one episode left?!

 

My thinking was that they shoved too many important stuff in the last two episodes (like Betsy being in the Catacombs, Daddy Mills being Supernatural Hunter, Abby/Danny, etc) for literally no reason. They could have done it in the beginning of 3B or at the end of 3A instead of wasting time on Zoe or Joe/Jenny or spending an entire episode on making Jenny liking Sophie in that gargoyle filler episode.

 

This show has serious pacing issues. The episode called Ragnarok, a season/the show finale, literally has not time for Ichabod to have any closure with Betsy.

[Julia]

But isn't that more or less exactly how they got Jenny and Joe together?

[TaurusRose]

Not a fan of the "Sophie is Ichabbie's future daughter" theory. It's just too much of a fanwank for me to even try to get there and it makes no sense, IMO. Also, not a fan of the Jenny kills Joe plot twist. It just felt so manipulative and the actors didn't have the chops to pull it off as the great tragedy I guess it was supposed to be, nor was I invested enough (well, actually not at all) to care.

Edited April 8, 2016 by taurusrose