Unpopular Opinions: All Alone in Purgatory

[HalcyonDays]

I don't buy that Abraham loved Katrina, let alone deeply.  Their engagement was arranged by their families, as I recall.  Flashback Abraham's attitude toward Katrina seemed more possessive than infatuated.  He didn't particularly listen to her or take her preferences into consideration.  Which was one reason she was attracted to Ichabod -- because he treated her like a person rather than a possession.

 

That's what I always thought too - which is why its weird that Abraham became the Horseman over his "love" for Katrina. I always thought he was angry because he was jealous. In fact he even says something like "how will it look to the public" or something like that. That's not a man in love. And makes Katrina's desire to help Abraham even stranger. She wasn't supposed to be in love with him. She tells Ichabod she doesn't love Abe. It's why some of us believe she's shady. Or at least, inconsistent in her behaviour.

[LeeLeePanda]

While hating Katrina is obviously not an unpopular opinion (and trust me, I don't like her) I don't completly hate her when she's not around Ichabod. Im torn, because while I think she is the worst I kinda want to see how she's adapting to the 21st century. I feel like she needs to ditch the witnesses and make a life of her own as modern woman. And only be seen for 30 seconds every 5th epidsode.

That being said, I do feel kinda bad for Katia Winter. Actors have to have pretty tough skin and be able to take criticism. But it must suck to know that you are televisions most hated character.

Edited January 9, 2015 by LeeLeePanda

[Blackhoney]

Katia needs to not take things so personal. Her character is hated, not HER.

People hated JR Ewing too, so much they shot him, nut the actor playing him didn't take it seriously.

What would TV be without characters you hate or love to hate?

[LeeLeePanda]

Katia needs to not take things so personal. Her character is hated, not HER.

People hated JR Ewing too, so much they shot him, nut the actor playing him didn't take it seriously.

What would TV be without characters you hate or love to hate?

I actually have no idea if she's taking it personally or not. I'm an struggling actor, and you definitely have to learn how take criticism and not let it get to you. It's incredibly hard not to take things personally, but you have to do it. Which is why I posted this in the unpopular opinions thread.

[HalcyonDays]

I actually have no idea if she's taking it personally or not. I'm an struggling actor, and you definitely have to learn how take criticism and not let it get to you. It's incredibly hard not to take things personally, but you have to do it. Which is why I posted this in the unpopular opinions thread.

 

Yeah, I would expect it would be very hard for actors to not take things personally. I mean, everything is critically reviewed. At some level, the criticism would get to you. I feel sorry for Katia for that reason as I would for anyone. It's not her fault that the show runners wrote her character extremely poorly, just like it's not the fault of the actor who plays Laurel on Arrow to be so hated, or the person who plays Barbara on Gotham.

 

However there is a good way and a bad way to respond to criticism. Unfortunately, there have been a few times where she has used social media in a way that some viewed as smug or condescending and rubbed some people the wrong way. I'm not saying that it was intentional at all. Probably the joke got lost in translation. But it didn't endear her to many SH fans. (see M. Raven Metzner). Also, she has been quoted as saying that she loves the storylines she is getting, so that would really not endear her to many fans.

 

Orlando excels at skewering the show, and we forgive him for it because a) he's a comedian and b) his trolling pretty much hits home. I still think Mison took the best approach. Say absolutely nothing at all. But at some point I would expect you would have to develop some sort of thick skin, as it's the nature of the profession.

[LeeLeePanda]

Unfortunately, there have been a few times where she has used social media in a way that some viewed as smug or condescending and rubbed some people the wrong way. I'm not saying that it was intentional at all. Probably the joke got lost in translation. But it didn't endear her to many SH fans. (see M. Raven Metzner). Also, she has been quoted as saying that she loves the storylines she is getting, so that would really not endear her to many fans.

I actually had no idea she said anything condescending. I don't follow her on Twitter, so I'm clueless. I retract my former statement if she's being an ass towards fans. its ok to be upset in private, but you can't take it out on the people who are basically keeping you employed.

[HalcyonDays]

As someone who would like to make her career as a writer, I have an understanding that once I release my work into the world, it will be judged. This isn't accounting. People will have opinions. Anybody who chooses a career in any of the arts has to know there will be people who think their work is drivel. You're a hack, etc. it comes with the territory.

 

This is an excellent way to explain it, SweetTooth. Once the work is released into the entertainment world, it's ripe for criticism. So I would expect that actors, authors, etc would try to handle the criticism. Some can, some learn from, some have a hard time with it. Human nature. Besides, don't they say that Hollywood has the largest concentration of insecure people??

 

I actually had no idea she said anything condescending. I don't follow her on Twitter, so I'm clueless. I retract my former statement if she's being an ass towards fans. its ok to be upset in private, but you can't take it out on the people who are basically keeping you employed.

 

I'm not sure condescending was the right word, but it didn't sit well with certain fans. At all. Which leads me to my next unpopular opinion....

 

I don't think people should expect actors to promote their shows on social media. I really don't. I've seen lots of complaint that certain SH actors don't tweet enough. I must be showing my age because I don't get that. I want to see the actors on screen. I want to see magazine interviews or talk show stuff. But things like live tweeting? I just don't get. Don't get me wrong, I love reading some people's twitters - some of it is hilarious. I just don't see the need for it. Which is why I think its great that Mison keeps work and personal separate. Good man.

 

Another unpopular opinion. I really don't care about the financial aspects of Abbie "supporting" Crane. I get it, why it's important. I understand and totally see how she is being used by the Crane's. But to me, its like how the Friends could afford multimillion dollar apartments in Manhattan. Just a convenience for the writers that does nothing for the overall story and typically make no sense in real life. If one thinks of logistically, the mathematics make no sense. Abbie isn't rolling in cash to be able to buy so much for Crane. Same as the fact that Joe Corbin doesn't own his fathers cabin, or the fact that there is a beautiful carriage house in the middle of the forest that is in good shape, but no one has laid claim to it in over 200 years.

 

But like in Friends, they write throwaway lines that quickly answer these little things, but logistically and financially makes no sense. There are much more pressing matters (in my mind) that should be addressed on the show before things like rent. *ducks rotten tomatoes* SORRY!

[DeLurker]

RealIty doesn't matter in reality TV and has no place in a show about the Apocalypse, Witnesses, very elastic definition of "dead", a headless horseman, ...

[LeeLeePanda]

My fanwank is that Abby inherited the cabin and there's a trust for upkeep and maintainence. it wouldn't make sense for Joe to inherit in since it was suppose to be a secret.

[HalcyonDays]

My fanwank is that Abby inherited the cabin and there's a trust for upkeep and maintainence. it wouldn't make sense for Joe to inherit in since it was suppose to be a secret.

 

Oh...I like that fanwank. Still is odd for Joe not to take it, especially since we know that he was supposed to take over his father's work. But I like the idea of a trust to upkeep/maint. It's just another thing the show hasn't bother to explain. I'm expecting the episode where we find out Crane has some lost stash of gold or jewelry or other stuff he owned, goes on Antique Roadshow and gets big bucks for it. Easy way to get him some cash, and since he doesn't exist, he doesn't have to pay taxes!

[savinggrace]

I think Joe Corbin is a retcon character. Was there any mention of Corbin having a son during the first season? I certainly don't recall.

[shanndee]

I seem to remember a scene in S1 where Abbie picked up a picture in Corbin'e office. It was a pic of him with 2 kids...I could be mis-remembering though...

[LeeLeePanda]

I seem to remember a scene in S1 where Abbie picked up a picture in Corbin'e office. It was a pic of him with 2 kids...I could be mis-remembering though...

I remember that too.

Back on topic: I thought it was funny that Crane knew everyone in the Revolutionary War. I still want to see a flashback of him being chased by Betsy Ross! Also, I feel like some of the things people have complained about this season have always been there. I think the shorter season masked the issues. I'm torn, because I like that there are more episodes this season, but I think the show flowed better when there were less. Perhaps 15 or 14 episodes would work better.

[FormerMod-a1]

Reminder - this is a place to post Unpopular Opinions. It is not a place to debate those opinions or tell others they are wrong.

It IS OK to correct factual errors, for example if someone posted "I love that Headless has no connection to the Witnesses" it would be OK to reply with "Actually, Headless and Ichabod were friends way back when..."

NOT OK would be replying to a post like "I love Henry and want to see more of him" with "Ugh, I can't stand Henry, no one can..." followed by lengthy reasons why he is hated (and sometimes unintentionally implying the first poster is wrong). If you want to debate please take it to another thread with a simple "Replying in..." post.

We did get back on track, but we had veered away from this a bit on this page. I will not move anything at this time, but make no guarantees of the same consideration if this happens again. Please PM frenchtoast or OnceSane with any questions.

[wayne67]

Here's an Unpopular Opinion.

 

I'd rather they kept Captain Frank Irving a corpse.

 

I had enough of Andy reappearing as a corpse/necromancer the first season. Just kill a character and be done with it already.

 

How am I supposed to take death seriously if people keep popping up from the grave? It was okay with Mama because she was a ghost (barely) but too much contact with the other side trivialises the already low stakes of this apocalypse.

 

Another probably unpopular opinion I want the good guys to lose their battles more spectacularly (more colateral damage) as they do a mediocre job of preparing for demonic threats. I want a higher body count and more scrutiny from Abby's supposedly tough boss.

 

*hunkers down to duck rotten fruit*

[jhlipton]

How am I supposed to take death seriously if people keep popping up from the grave? It was okay with Mama because she was a ghost (barely) but too much contact with the other side trivialises the already low stakes of this apocalypse.

 

They have this problem with Resurrection.  There was a "shocking death" that I didn't take seriously because everyone keeps coming back.

[jhlipton]

I think Nicole Beharie mugs and rolls her eyes instead of acting, I used to looove the scenes with her and Mison (and some Jones thrown in, sometimes).

 

I put that more on the director than on her.  When she's given something to say, like in the "What do we do when the Apocalypse is over?" scene, she still sells it completely.  I also disagree wrt Jones and Greenwood.  Again, when they're given decent material, their chops shine through.  Even with some of the dreck they're handed, they do a good job.

[fantique]

I don't think people should expect actors to promote their shows on social media. I really don't. I've seen lots of complaint that certain SH actors don't tweet enough. I must be showing my age because I don't get that. I want to see the actors on screen. I want to see magazine interviews or talk show stuff. But things like live tweeting? I just don't get. Don't get me wrong, I love reading some people's twitters - some of it is hilarious. I just don't see the need for it. Which is why I think its great that Mison keeps work and personal separate. Good man.

 

Another unpopular opinion. I really don't care about the financial aspects of Abbie "supporting" Crane. I get it, why it's important. I understand and totally see how she is being used by the Crane's. But to me, its like how the Friends could afford multimillion dollar apartments in Manhattan. Just a convenience for the writers that does nothing for the overall story and typically make no sense in real life. If one thinks of logistically, the mathematics make no sense. Abbie isn't rolling in cash to be able to buy so much for Crane. Same as the fact that Joe Corbin doesn't own his fathers cabin, or the fact that there is a beautiful carriage house in the middle of the forest that is in good shape, but no one has laid claim to it in over 200 years.

 

 WORD. Especially the social media bit, I always get annoyed with the levels of entitlement I feel from some fans wrt to performers. They still have the right to be human beings and have their own lives and loved ones to spend time with. More casual and repetitive show promotion is why there are PR departments.

 

Here is an UO;

I am getting annoyed at Orlando's continuous mockery of his own show. Now, him doing it once to reassure his fans that he gets their frustration and show objectivity and humility towards work he is a part of was fine by me. However, now it just feels like piling on and it has a hint of bitterness. It makes me wonder if his storyline isolation has to do with some kind of fallout with the showrunners or KW. He used to always talk about Katia and how they were this great theatre troupe and them all being together was the most fun. But yeah... it's definitely not keeping him into my good graces. I expect professionals to have some kind of integrity and solidarity. It feels like he's throwing them under the bus.

Edited January 17, 2015 by fantique

[phoenics]

I just cannot fault OJ for that - KW basically took all of his screen time. I'd be ticked off too - especially when you consider all of the other issues on the show.

Plus, given her tweet to Ichabbie fans that time, I don't think she's nearly as sweet as some think she is.

TOJ is very, very frank and direct. And honestly, this season sucks. His shade is sometimes the only thing that makes it bearable. And even he told the fans to chill out at one point - so I think he balances his shade even still this season.

[DeLurker]

 

*hunkers down to duck rotten fruit*

wayne67 - I found that the fruit rarely makes it past my monitor and it is hell to clean up, so I think your probably safe until next year's CES when spewing monitors will be introduced.

 

But you are not wrong on either count.  Although I am glad to get Frank back, even (maybe especially) if he turns out evil, they really did it way too soon.  But given the lackluster season, I am glad to have Orlando Jones back provided they use him more than they did in the first half.  Cause that was a total waste.

 

Team Witness is pretty sparse, so it would be hard to have a loss there.  But again, Frank was out of the picture most of the first half of the season and Jenny too.

[MissAlmond]

To continue my thoughts in the media thread about my growing suspicion that Season 2 changes came from above.  I fully say this after  being fully onboard the Fuck You, Mark Goffman train.  But now I’m beginning to wonder if there's more here than meets the eye. 

 

If all this came from just the head of Mark Goffman, why did it take FOX’s public statement for changes to suddenly occur?  Tweets and everything from SH turned on a dime after that renewal contingent on creative changes comment.   If K/O Productions had been concerned all this time, they had the power to step in long before FOX.  They could have sat Goffman down, said obviously there was a failure to communicate, and here’s how things will be from now.  But they didn’t say that - FOX did.  Even Aaron Beier alluded they wanted to try something different for Season 2.

 

 I think back to the person who was worried about the inclusion of John Noble.  They believed K/O wanted an Emmy for him but this theory was doubted since SH is a genre show.  But does that stop people from wanting any award?  What if there was a grain of truth to that theory?  What if  K/O felt, a genre show about the Apocalypse wont’t win that Emmy, but, oh, the heartwarming story of a mother wanting redemption for her son?  Now that might work.  I also believe Goffman is more comfortable with traditional stories and grew tired of people taking him to task about Book of Revelation not Revelations, the location of Roanoke and how this or that mythology was wrong.  So much research for telling a story on network TV.  A traditional story with a traditional leading lady was probably his comfort zone and - here’s what I’m beginning to  think - with the full support of K/O,  he went for it.   Throw in the thought (not reality) of perhaps winning an Emmy for an actor they adored, and everybody's happy.  But SH never knew their audience.  They admitted this seveal times.  The entire thing backfired and backfired big. 

 

Of course, maybe I’m wrong.  Maybe it was just all Goffman and K/O was asleep at the wheel with too many projects.  I still don't trust the Goffman and the huge role he played in ruining SH.  His All Katrina interviews are what made me back away from the show.  But I no longer can shake the feeling that maybe, just maybe, it wasn’t just him and that’s why nothing happened until FOX stepped in and when they did,  things happened fast.  I do know the BTS story of SH must be a doozy.  Maybe I need to become a vampire to stick around and read Goffman’s book.

 

OK, so there it is.  My flame suit is clean and ready to put on LOL. 

[Indi]

If all this came from just the head of Mark Goffman, why did it take FOX’s public statement for changes to suddenly occur?  Tweets and everything from SH turned on a dime after that renewal contingent on creative changes comment.   If K/O Productions had been concerned all this time, they had the power to step in long before FOX.  They could have sat Goffman down, said obviously there was a failure to communicate, and here’s how things will be from now.  But they didn’t say that - FOX did.  Even Aaron Beier alluded they wanted to try something different for Season 2.

 

Because they were all on board with the changes. They were never concerned, until FOX intervened. I just had to read Baiers' tweets between the lines and what different producers, writers and actors said at different times, to reach the conclusion that Goffman might be the worst among them, but they are all responsible for sidelining Nicole and for playing favorites with Winter. I'm seeing so many fans elsewhere suddenly thanking and praising Baiers for taking over and saving the show, when the only thing he's doing is PR. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but I think they're trying to save face, while everyone is busy pointing their fingers only at Goffman. I know that if there is a S3 and Abbie makes it, it won't be thanks to any of them, but thanks to FOX, or rather, thanks to the poor ratings, because if they had been high enough, Nicole would be jobless by the end of the season.

[DeLurker]

Nah, put the flame suit away.  Goffman's names gets thrown around a lot, but I suspect most of us realize not one person has that much say normally.  So whenever I say Goffman it really means "Goffman and all the other nameless faceless powers-that-be".

 

I think the availability of so much information through the internet gives the appearance of transparency since we can easily see who wrote a specific ep or what not plus the attempts to use social media to market (with spectacular missteps occasionally), but the reality of what goes on is not that easy to access.

[MissAlmond]

Nah, put the flame suit away.  Goffman's names gets thrown around a lot, but I suspect most of us realize not one person has that much say normally.  So whenever I say Goffman it really means "Goffman and all the other nameless faceless powers-that-be".

 

  Thanks DeLurker.  I just remember how there was so much thought that if K/O returned, the show could be salvaged.  But Aaron Beiers post Fox slapdown tweek on the thought process leading into Season 2 made me re-think things, so I went searching for K/O statements.   I also remember what the purported insider said about FOX giving SH the freedom to tell their own story.  That is, until things went south.  Would FOX really do that for a TV person (where the majority of Goffman's credits lie) or with two Hollywood producers who worked on big budget films?  Maybe all the chickens are coming home to roost on just who did what and when.  Hell Yeah, I'd read the book LOL.

Edited January 29, 2015 by MissAlmond

[DJG1122]

To continue my thoughts in the media thread about my growing suspicion that Season 2 changes came from above.  I fully say this after  being fully onboard the Fuck You, Mark Goffman train.  But now I’m beginning to wonder if there's more here than meets the eye.

Also, thinking back to the 2/4/2014 UK interview with Katia Winter where she said she had been talking to Mark Goffman AND Alex Kurtzman and was very excited about her upcoming role.

You aren't alone in Purgatory. Several of us agree completely with you.

Edited January 29, 2015 by DJG1122

[jhlipton]

There is almost certainly enough blame to go around -- to Goffman, Kurtzman and Orci and to Katia Winter (her media comments show that she was just fine with being the StruggleWitch until the clamor grew loud enough, then it was "not my fault!").

 

Not a single one of them (and probably many more) can escape culpability.

 

(I do tend to to blame Goffman more than the others since his love of Katia/Katrina and his distaste for Nicole, Lyndie and Orlando has been on full display for the whole season.  He made himself the "face" of SH, now he has to pay for it.)

[ParadoxLost]

I think this may actually be the first truly unpopular opinion I've ever really had.

 

Sleepy Hollow has not cratered in terms of quality.  I never thought it was as good as everyone seemed to think it was the first season and its not as bad as everyone seems to think it is now.  At least not enough to explain, to me, why the dissatisfaction seems to consume the internet and its becoming short hand for saying that the quality of entirely unrelated TV shows have gone down.

[topanga]

 

Sleepy Hollow has not cratered in terms of quality.  I never thought it was as good as everyone seemed to think it was the first season and its not as bad as everyone seems to think it is now.  At least not enough to explain, to me, why the dissatisfaction seems to consume the internet

Great opinion. And I can only speak for myself, but topanga never thought Season 1 was perfect. The things that I Ioved about S1, however, are in shorter supply this season--Crane and Abbie's banter and great partnership, Abbie's intelligence and ability to solve cases--sometimes alone, and sometimes when she and Crane put their heads together. Even the loosely-interpreted history lessons and crazy End-of-Days theories--As my kids say, "Where dey at, tho?". Instead, the weaker elements of SI have been pushed to the forefront and down our throats--under-developed Katrina, for example.

 

Katrina's character still hasn't been developed. It's like TPTB said, "Katrina isn't a fully-formed character, but she's pretty. And she's an important witch. Let us show you how important she is as a character without making her interesting or multi-layered. Hell, she can keep whispering all-season if that's what the actress wants. Katrina's a powerful witch! Even though she doesn't really do anything of significance. But her desire to save evil characters and her marital drama with Crane are now going to be what you, the viewer come to care about! Keep watching--it will happen. The more you watch Crane Family Drama, the more you'll care...keep watching, it'll happen soon. We promise."

[blixie]

 

"Katrina isn't a fully-formed character, but she's pretty. And she's an important witch. Let us show you how important she is as a character without making her interesting or multi-layered. Hell, she can keep whispering all-season if that's what the actress wants. Katrina's a powerful witch!

 

You know if this show were monster popular I could actually see SNL doing a spectacular spoof of Katrina on SH, makes me wish Nikki hosted SNL. They could have Taram as Ichabod, Jost as Abraham, and Cecily as Katrina with all the white dudes saying she's a POWERFUL witch only to show her failing over and over and while Nikki and Sasheer say everything the audience is actually thinking about Mz Mapowesaresweakened, magic is not like a musket!

[topanga]

So Sasheer would be Jenny? And Leslie Jones could make an appearance as Mama? And maybe Kate's Justin Bieber could show up someplace. I love it.

 

My UO: The show underplays Nicole Beharie's height--or lack thereof. There's a throwaway joke here and there about Ichabod reaching something high up that Abbie can't, but couldn't Abbie hide in a cabinet or pretend to be a teenager or something? Kristen Bell had a great line on "Veronica Mars" about being able to curl up in a cabinet to hide a from a nurse, and there was a powerful scene on "Scandal" where Kerry Washington stood toe to toe with Norm Lewis to give him a piece of her mind. She wanted to stand eye-to-eye, but he was too tall-which made her confidence that much more noticeable.

[LeeLeePanda]

My unpopular opinion: I really like Katrina's black outfit from season 1. Teenage Goth LeeLee Panda would have found someway to recreate it and freak her parents out. Also, I don't think it's weird that she wears corsets with her modern clothes. I had to wear a steel boned corset for 12 hours a day when I worked at my local rennaissance Faire. once I forgot to pack it in my costume bag, and I felt naked and off the entire day without it. I can imagine that she just isn't used to not wearing one, and feels uncomfortable without it.

[savinggrace]

I think if the show returns for Season 3 the only core characters who should be back are Abbie and Ichabod- no Katrina, Henry, Irving or Jenny.  They need to just rebuild a solid, compelling mystery show around those two a la X-files and cut the family/redemption stories.

[HalcyonDays]

I think if the show returns for Season 3 the only core characters who should be back are Abbie and Ichabod- no Katrina, Henry, Irving or Jenny.  They need to just rebuild a solid, compelling mystery show around those two a la X-files and cut the family/redemption stories.

 

I sorta disagree. I think Jenny needs to stay and Irving - or a good link to the police department - needs to be around also.

 

X-Files had Mulder and Scully as the core, but AD Skinner was there to direct them, or be an obstacle, or provide them with info, etc. The baddie was of course Cancer Man/The Syndicate. Re-occuring help was from Deep Throat and X.

 

I would make a case that SH could do an X-Files (they have tried, but are not Chris Carter - i.e. fascinated with gov't conspiracy and alien abduction. You have your stand alone cases of the week/MotW which would mostly be Abbie and Ichabod. You also have your apocalypse type more serious end of days scenarios. These are the ones they could be building a world on, dropping hint after hint.

 

So Jenny, because of her kickass skills, snark with Ichabod, overall hilarious quips and humour, and her artifact hunting are needed. Irving - or some link to the police force - to guide them, provide info, sometimes be an obstacle, ala Skinner. You could have an secret informant, like a X or Deep Throat.

 

SH tries this, but their pacing was off. Everything revolved around the Apolcaypse and there were never any cases were the person was just a stone cold serial killer or just messed up. They could have had shows where the Witnesses think it's linked, but it's really not, but a lesson is learned in their fight. Things like an episode could have focused on Irving, but been a stand alone case resolved at the end of the episode (they did that with Skinner multiple times).

 

Its funny to me that the episodes where Mulder was so focused on his sister Samantha - to the detriment of Scully - I disliked, and remind me of the episodes where Ichabod is so focused on Katrina, to the detriment of Abbie. You could have stand alone episodes with Ichabod, stand alone with Abbie, some down time, etc.

 

Somehow I've gone off on a tangent. Basically, there was so much opportunity to do so much more.

 

The core should always have been Ichabbie. Jenny needs to stay to provide her skills and support and snark. And you need to have a Skinner-like older mentor to guide them along (Hello, long lost Corbin...what could have been).

 

The four need to stay - them and only them. Everyone else flits in and out of the show. Just my opinion.

[Amethyst]

My unpopular opinion: I really like Katrina's black outfit from season 1. Teenage Goth LeeLee Panda would have found someway to recreate it and freak her parents out. Also, I don't think it's weird that she wears corsets with her modern clothes. I had to wear a steel boned corset for 12 hours a day when I worked at my local rennaissance Faire. once I forgot to pack it in my costume bag, and I felt naked and off the entire day without it. I can imagine that she just isn't used to not wearing one, and feels uncomfortable without it.

 

IA with this.  I don't like the corset, but I can see why Katrina would feel uncomfortable wearing something else.  And I don't think she would be comfortable shopping for modern lingerie with Abbie or Jenny, because she's not friends with them.  When it comes to clothing, I don't think Katrina looks any more or less out of place than Ichabod.

[fantique]

My unpopular opinion: I really like Katrina's black outfit from season 1. Teenage Goth LeeLee Panda would have found someway to recreate it and freak her parents out. Also, I don't think it's weird that she wears corsets with her modern clothes. I had to wear a steel boned corset for 12 hours a day when I worked at my local rennaissance Faire. once I forgot to pack it in my costume bag, and I felt naked and off the entire day without it. I can imagine that she just isn't used to not wearing one, and feels uncomfortable without it.

I don't know where else to put this. Okay. This is going to ruffle some feathers, but, I'm sick to death of hearing the "white privilege" or "white male privilege" slur. . YES, slur. ... because, that's how it's being used . It's just as offensive as "angry black woman" as a slur and cliche. Sometimes a woman, who happens to be black, is angry. Sometimes, a person who is white, happens to write for a particular actor.

I'm sorry, but, this has been percolating for sometime as I've seen this slur flung around nonchalantly on various websites. Hate breeds hate. .. no-one owns racism, bias, hate. .. no-one is immune. .. and, all slurs are offensive. .. to me. All slurs are cliche.

I'm sorry, but this is just how I feel.

YOU GUYS ARE NOT ALONE!!!!!! I totally loved that dress! I am also tired of reducing issues to bigotry, unfortunately life is not as easy as that.

[savinggrace]

I sorta disagree. I think Jenny needs to stay and Irving - or a good link to the police department - needs to be around also.

 

X-Files had Mulder and Scully as the core, but AD Skinner was there to direct them, or be an obstacle, or provide them with info, etc.

 

 

I don't think Irving in his current embattled, undead and unemployed incarnation should return. However I do agree that he works as a "Skinner" which is what he was before the writers completely fucked up his story arc.One of my favorite episodes was when they were trying to destroy Headless's head and Irving and Abbie were giving Ichabod a harsh education on Jefferson --including Sally Hemmings.

 

Jenny on the other hand represents the same problem as Katrina. Jenny is nowhere near as useless and annoying but she's still a distraction for her Witness sister. Plots that feature Jenny come across extraneous. I found myself frustrated in the last episode that the main plot kept being interrupted to show what, to me, was a far less interesting Frank/Jenny storyline.

[jhlipton]

I'm sick to death of hearing the "white privilege" or "white male privilege" slur. .

I am as white as may be, but I realize that "white privilege" is a very real thing. It doesn't always apply, but I think it does here -- shunting the three POC to the B plots and bringing the white folks to the front, and not notice that you're doing so, seems very much a matter of what I call "structural racism". I wouldn't call Goffman et al racists, but their white privilege blinds them to a racist outcome.

[LeeLeePanda]

I am as white as may be, but I realize that "white privilege" is a very real thing. It doesn't always apply, but I think it does here -- shunting the three POC to the B plots and bringing the white folks to the front, and not notice that you're doing so, seems very much a matter of what I call "structural racism". I wouldn't call Goffman et al racists, but their white privilege blinds them to a racist outcome.

I agree with you, and want to point out a phrase that has been used incorrectly: Manpain. Now, I'm a card carrying feminist and I think that term has a time and place. For example, when a dude tries to derail a conversation about women's issues with "what about the men!?!". I think it's kinda cruel to use to describe the issues Crane has with being a man out of his own time. I think its perfectly reasonable for a person who woke up 200+ years in the future and had to claw his way out of his grave only to find out everyone he knew and loved is dead to be a bit moody.

[MissAlmond]

 

I will say this. This IS a racist element in the SH fandom. Dear god. Unfortunately, they tend to be the ones who prefer Katrina and the story of Ichatrina. Not all of them, but there are a select few out there that make my mouth drop. There are some very nasty comments being thrown out there that make me ill. I'm sure some of you guys have read it, so you know exactly what I'm talking about. These people are seriously not right in the head.

 

 

This much is so true.  I also think they presented themselves well enough on Facebook that certain writers truly felt they were indeed, the true fans of the show.  After all, they were so nice to them. But when FOX stepped in with their "creative changes" remarks, their true faces suddenly showed.   They went crazy on Twitter and Aaron Baiers (who, handled things with grace) met them face to face (or tweet to tweet), masks off.  I swear, I think that's when FOX decided to give the ok to release that November Mison interview.

[MissAlmond]

I think if the show returns for Season 3 the only core characters who should be back are Abbie and Ichabod- no Katrina, Henry, Irving or Jenny.  They need to just rebuild a solid, compelling mystery show around those two a la X-files and cut the family/redemption stories.

 

I’m in this camp too.  I don’t want SH to have wasted an entire season on Crane Family Drama only to turn around and now be all  about Grace Dixon, Abbie’s mother and what powers Abbie and Jenny’s family tree might hold.   I know some want this and I respect that.  But, IMO, trying to be serious, along with background stories and family/redemption plots derailed this show.  Switching from the Crane’s to the Mills doesn’t change that for me.  SH works best (again IMO) as a cool, refreshing drink at the end of a long, hot day.  It fails when it tries to become a wine tasting convention. 

 

 

To my mind, Irving works best in the police department (which expands the SH universe), Katrina has potential as the now crazy Mother Bear who will never, ever forget the wrong done to Henry, and Jenny works as recurring.  Like tasty appetizers, these characters need to give an episode a shot of flavor, and then leave the rest for the main course.  IMO, besides the town (of course), SH should bring on the rest of the horseman and take their time on who they want the Big Bad to be (and please, NO connection to either Witness).  Meanwhile, Abbie and Ichabod could be putting out fires as they try to discover the real danger.  The two of them should find clues from the past and present, giving us more crazy, twisted American history.   Why not have the witnesses go from presidential library to presidential library seeking clues on what every subsequent president since Washington  was told in the famous "Letter to the next President".   Oh, so that was what the 18 ½ missing gap was all about!   What?  Clinton was close to the truth but sidelined by the charms of a succubus? 

 

 

Listen to Dana Walden and be about fun, Sleepy Hollow.  Pure, unadulterated,  batshit crazy, mixed up American history, every episode (not shocking cliffhanger!!!)  fun.  And remember to never, ever again mess up the gift of chemistry handed to you.  I think that’s when the show is at its best. 

 

 

As a sidenote to those who think the show is now simply pandering to "certain" fans.  As some of these Purgatory comments reflect, there are all sorts of fans who want different things from SH.  It’s impossible to “pander” to us all.   But the one constant is the chemistry between Tom Mison and Nicole Behaire.  On that, SH should never, ever tamper with again.   

Edited February 19, 2015 by MissAlmond

[jhlipton]

So while I do absolutely think that Abbie and Jenny and Irving were sidelined, it was for mysogynistic reasons, not racial reasons.

How is it that Irving was side-lined for mysogynistic reasons?  I really don't think that it's a coincidence that all the characters who were sidelined were black.  So I think that there's both sexual and color reasons at play here, albeit unconscious. 

[Sparkling Beth]

I think this is an unpopular opinion, at least judging from comments on other threads--

 

I love the connections that Crane has with historical figures.  It reminds me of Quantum Leap and what they called their "kisses with history" where Sam runs across famous people in his time travels; e.g., he uses a familiar technique to save a man from choking only to overhear a woman ask the choking man afterward, "Are you all right, Dr. Heimlich?"  It's just fun and I really enjoy hearing Crane's opinions of these people whose names are so familiar to us.

 

Another opinion that may or may not be unpopular:  I can't get past the fact that Henry looks nothing like his parents.  Tom Mison and Katia Winter are both pretty stunning.  John Noble, while immensely talented, looks like a cross between Al Franken and Lewis Black.  Whenever I'm watching him, my mind is screaming, "They wouldn't have a son who looks like that!"  Very shallow of me, I know, and if it's not an unpopular opinion, it probably should be.

[BrokenRemote]

I've avoided posting in this thread because it seems like every unpopular opinion has several posts after it telling the owner of the unpopular opinion why he or she is wrong, but that seems to be a no-no in the thread guidelines. Not sure if I'm misunderstanding the rules of the thread, so I'm hoping a mod can maybe clarify? If I disagree with something that's posted is this the place to say so, or should it go in another thread?

Edited February 19, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[savinggrace]

I've avoided posting in this thread because it seems like every unpopular opinion has several posts after it telling the owner of the unpopular opinion why he or she is wrong, but that seems to be a no-no in the thread guidelines. Not sure if I'm misunderstanding the rules of the thread, so I'm hoping a mod can maybe clarify? If I disagree with something that's posted is this the place to say so, or should it go in another thread?

 

The thread would be pretty boring if it were just a laundry list of unpopular opinions with no discussion, agreement or counterpoints. I enjoy hearing why people agree or disagree with my unpopular opinion. Tumblr's a good place to state opinions with minimal engagement with others.

[Sparkling Beth]

I've avoided posting in this thread because it seems like every unpopular opinion has several posts after it telling the owner of the unpopular opinion why he or she is wrong, but that seems to be a no-no in the thread guidelines. Not sure if I'm misunderstanding the rules of the thread, so I'm hoping a mod can maybe clarify? If I disagree with something that's posted is this the place to say so, or should it go in another thread?

My impression of the rules is that you're allowed to disagree as long as you state your feelings in a way that makes it clear that you're just giving your opinion and not calling the original poster wrong.  I realize that can be a fine line but I would certainly hope that we're allowed to have different opinions on the matters under discussion.  The mods will have the final say on that.

[VanillaBear85]

Forget it.

Edited February 19, 2015 by VanillaBear85

[AmandaPanda]

As everyone is discussing their unpopular opinions, please remember Previously.TV's Don't Be a Dick policy. You are welcome to discuss your opinions. You are not allowed to call out other posters because their opinion differs from yours. 

 

Please refer to the pinned post at the top of the page for guidelines on appropriate posts.

[BrokenRemote]

Well, I read the rules at the top (which I'd done before asking, natch) and I'm as confused as before. Guess I'll just stay in the other threads to be on the safe side. No biggie.

Edited February 20, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[OnceSane]

Well, I read the rules at the top (which I'd done before asking, natch) and I'm as confused as before. Guess I'll just stay in the other threads to be on the safe side. No biggie.

It's simple. Feel free to post your unpopular opinions. Do not feel free to tell others that they are wrong to have their opinions.

[DeLurker]

I seem to recall young Jeremy being kinda cute.

 

I wanted their to be more interaction shown between Frank and Henry once Henry owned his soul so I could call Irving Frankenhenry.