Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Emma]

 

“It’s only been 10 hours since the last crisis!”

 

Not real spoilery but this is a line from 4.01 that Jennifer mentioned at her panel currently in progress at Oz Con.

 

 

For Neal fans - Jennifer Morrison has just said that Neal will definitely appear in more flashbacks.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Emma

[stealinghome]

Re: Neal appearing again--do we think they're going to be flashbacking to more of their time together as teens? I don't know why we'd see more of Neal in flashbacks otherwise--I don't really see how there would be anything relevant left to tell now that he's dead.

[InsertWordHere]

I'm torn. The CS fan in me is really happy that apparently there's no time jump, but the continuity fan in me is like please stop with the breakneck plot pace. Slow down a little.

[stealinghome]

Right?? Like, could we not even have had a week--a freaking week!--between the finale and the premiere?

 

Literally, only 6 months have elapsed in show time since the start of S2 (not counting the one-year jump). That...boggles the mind.

Edited July 5, 2014 by stealinghome

[retrograde]

I hope they're flashbacks that are relevant to Emma and Neal is just kind of there incidentally because he was around at that particular time. I agree with @stealinghome -- what more do we need to know about Neal now he's dead? I'd like to see more flashbacks to Emma's life post-Neal. Jail, for instance. Or bounty hunting!

[InsertWordHere]

Maybe there's a time jump after the premiere? But probably not, not because of Captain Swan or even Elsa, but because you know they'll want to show us every one of Regina's tears over her week-long relationship.

[Rumsy4]

Plot! Plot! Plot!! Arrgh... When will it ever stop? Even fun, fast-paced shows like Eureka managed to have amazing character-development moments between all that action. 

[daxx]

I was hoping they would get a brief respite between crises. Guess not.

[retrograde]

Honestly, I never really expected a time jump this half-season. I mean, is Elsa just going to hang out in that shed for a few months before appearing in town? Fingers crossed for 4B, though. 

 

I was hoping they would get a brief respite between crises. Guess not.

 

 

In fairness, this could easily be a jokey/throwaway line. I think it's fair to assume something will happen in the first episode that will make them aware Elsa has arrived -- a sudden winter (which actually wouldn't be that weird, because there was a polar vortex only a few days earlier) or something. And then there's Marian, which is a bit of a crisis, too. So I don't think this quote indicates there is any more of a crisis than we were already aware of based on the finale. 

Edited July 5, 2014 by retrograde

[KAOS Agent]

I'm not at all surprised at there being zero time jump between the end of the finale and the premiere. Elsa didn't act like she was at all the type to hide out for a few months doing nothing. 

 

However, the showrunners are in denial about Jared looking like the 14 year old he is playing a 12 year old. Henry's sudden aging over ten hours is going to be really amusing. 

[Camera One]

However, the showrunners are in denial about Jared looking like the 14 year old he is playing a 12 year old. Henry's sudden aging over ten hours is going to be really amusing.

 

The writers need to think about Henry for once.  By the time he has his 14th birthday in Season 7, he'll look like he's 18.

 

I suppose that's true those cliffhangers don't leave any room for a time jump.

 

Makes Emma's decision NOT to move back to New York a moot point though.  Emma, you need to stay since we're now in a snowglobe.  Sorry!

Edited July 5, 2014 by Camera One

[Souris]

I was hoping they would get a brief respite between crises. Guess not.

 

Word. I just wanted them to have a couple of freaking DAYS when they didn't have to worry about a crisis. They all need naps. I mean, they can realize it's unseasonably cold, but that happens. But it's not like OMG!CRISIS!!!!!

Edited July 5, 2014 by Souris

[retrograde]

However, the showrunners are in denial about Jared looking like the 14 year old he is playing a 12 year old. Henry's sudden aging over ten hours is going to be really amusing. 

Perhaps offset by the fact that Snow is going to shrink to half her size from the finale. 

Edited July 5, 2014 by retrograde

[KAOS Agent]

Considering she bounced from very full faced to almost gaunt within the same scene in the finale, that's nothing. Snow's got a magical pregnancy weight-loss system.

[pezgirl7]

I saw a recent pap photo of Gennifer, and her face still looks pretty full. If she does start to lose weight though, it will probably appear to happen very quickly on the show, assuming only a few days go by each episode.

[Serena]

For the Neal thing - they've also been saying for a year that August will definitely appear in flashbacks, so I don't know how much I trust that. How about some Bae instead?

[retrograde]

I think the kid who plays Bae will soon look too old to play the age he was supposed to be (if he doesn't already). Unless you mean post-Neverland Bae.

 

I think I'll wait on an actual quote or video for the Neal thing, too. It's possible she said he definitely could still be back. Regardless, I think the actors tend to say, "Of course I'll come back for cameos!" when they're leaving and it's like, "Awww, I'll miss this place!" But once they have other gigs, fitting in a tiny stint on Once seems less appealing. Like when you leave almost any job and swear you'll stay friends with everyone. 

[sharky]

I could see bringing Neal back for flashbacks if they're doing a Hook/Neal parallel episode. You know, this is what Neal didn't do vs. this is what Hook did.

 

And as for the crisis line, it could also just be something she says flippantly in regards to Regina and Marian or something completely different -- maybe Granny's ran out of cinnamon or something. I remember all of us getting concerned when she said Hook had a line about someday he was going to stop chasing this woman and it ended up being something just off-handed in the finale.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm torn up about the 10 hours.  On the one hand, I'm glad Emma doesn't get to wallow in the whole I ruined Regina's life and she and Hook get to be blamed almost right away for the deep freeze that hits the town.  On the other hand, the show is basically starting the morning after everything happened....and everything is just happening so quickly.  I haven't watched Frozen, so does Elsa freeze stuff gradually or is it a winter blast right away where they're gonna wake up snowed in?

 

Maybe they'll have Henry on less since I'm sure the kid who plays him is taller than Jen, Ginny, Lana and the guys who play the dwarves.  That would be my consolation prize.

[Serena]

Elsa freezed everything pretty much right away in the movie. But that's when she isn't in control of her powers at all. Since this is post-movie, she should be able to control them better.

[YaddaYadda]

Shouldn't Henry (yeah I know) and even Emma recognize right away what's going on since Frozen is an animated movie and he pretty much watched this stuff.  He could have caught the movie during their hiatus in NYC?  Or are they going to pretend there isn't an animated movie of Elsa and co?  It just kinda hit me.

[sharky]

I would assume they can get away with pretending it doesn't exist. Based on the timeline of the show, they're a bit behind present day so it's easily possible that they're currently living in a time where the movie hasn't even been released yet. It's not like the Lion King reference, which wasn't problematic given the time frame of the show vs. reality.

[Amerilla]

I find it sort of sad that they have trained me to the point where it never occurred to me that they would slow down.(I feel like going into a Crazy Rumpel stream-of-consciousness: "Trained....trained seals...train barreling downhill....trainwreck.....") 

 

The writers need to think about Henry for once.  By the time he has his 14th birthday in Season 7, he'll look like he's 18.

 

 

What, just because he already has a deep voice and acne, you think he can't still play 12? :-)

 

You'd think they'd have to time-jump at some point, just to let things that take time, have time. I can't believe the part of the rationale behind so quickly marrying Gold and Belle wasn't to pave the way for his replacement baby - because, frankly, now that they killed Neal, they need to give him a motivation to continue being Rumpel, and it's got to be something on par with what he just lost, (Watch the Golden Bun will be a girl named "Gemma," and become playmates with Snowflake Neal - don't tell me the showrunners wouldn't go there).But they can't really fall back on the Missing Year contrivance again, and they can't keep Belle pregnant for the next 5 seasons..which would still only bring her up to the end of her first trimester at this rate.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Amerilla

[Serena]

I think the fact that they need Rumple to keep being Rumple is precisely why they won't give Rumbelle a baby - at least until the series finale. If he had a new Neal, there'd be a reason for him to behave - but the writers don't want him to behave.

[kili]

Shouldn't Henry (yeah I know) and even Emma recognize right away what's going on since Frozen is an animated movie and he pretty much watched this stuff.  He could have caught the movie during their hiatus in NYC

 

The timeline works so they can play it either way. If the Once universe started with a timeline concurrent to our own, then it was fall of 2011. Two years have passed (Henry is now 12) in that world while 3 have passed in our own. "Frozen" didn't come out until November of 2013, so it's conceivable that that they missed it (or that the movie will be released while they are experiencing 3B). They'll probably ignore it. Or have somebody say "I thought Elsa was a misunderstood good guy" and somebody else say "Like Pan?", but then it turns out that Elsa is actually a misunderstood good guy.

[sharky]

You'd think they'd have to time-jump at some point, just to let things that take time, have time.

I'm actually starting to realize that Adam and Eddy are really using Lost as a road map for this show. The flashbacks, the heroes becoming villains and vice versa, etc. And the timeline issue is definitely a big thing the two share. Lost was on for seven seasons but when you break it down, the timeline of the characters is actually much shorter than that.

 

That being said, I don't mind the breakneck pace as long as they get rid of the drop-in villains after this half season. They defeated Pan in two weeks, then had a year break because of the curse, then defeated Zelena in two weeks. So are we going to have new characters just drop into town every two weeks? With the changes that happened in the finale, I don't mind the immediate pick up, especially when it comes to Captain Swan. But after 4A, Storybrooke needs a bit of a breather and perhaps 4B should be a return to the people who are in the town.

[Rumsy4]

I'm actually starting to realize that Adam and Eddy are really using Lost as a road map for this show. The flashbacks, the heroes becoming villains and vice versa, etc. And the timeline issue is definitely a big thing the two share. Lost was on for seven seasons but when you break it down, the timeline of the characters is actually much shorter than that.

 

Responding in the All-seasons thread.

[Amerilla]

I think the fact that they need Rumple to keep being Rumple is precisely why they won't give Rumbelle a baby - at least until the series finale. If he had a new Neal, there'd be a reason for him to behave - but the writers don't want him to behave.

 

 

I don't understand half the choices the writers' make any more, so this could certainly turn out to be the case.

 

That said: the only thing that has ever made Rumpel's "villainy" even remotely sympathetic is that his motivation was to protect / get back to his child. Yes, he did plenty of nasty, evil things just for glittery, manic giggles, but his overall actions were always driving towards the single goal of finding Bae.

 

So if you take that away from him, and he just starts doing nasty, evil things out of grief, then he just becomes an asshole with no motivation beyond making people suffer because he's suffering - he becomes another Regina, basically. 

 

A new baby would be more likely to make his mis-behave, to knock him off the path towards redemption, because he'd want to hold on so tightly - that's where he always gets himself into trouble. He wants to be there for his infant son, so he cripples himself and destroys his marriage. He wants to protect Bae from war, so he becomes this dark power and he drives Bae away. He spends years and years making getting to the Land Without Magic, and he gets scared, so he brings magic back and traps himself. By having him lie about the dagger, they already put him in the same spot with Belle - he wants to hold on to his power and his sense of control, but he does it in a needlessly destructive way that's going to cause them both (and if history is any guide, a bunch of innocent bystanders) a lot of unnecessary pain.

 

Plus, just on the nuts-and-bolts level, they foreshadowed a Golden Bun in 3a when they had Pan telling Rumpel that Belle seemed "fertile" (ewww), and that Rumpel should forget about Neal and Henry and start a new family - the same way they had Zelena foreshadow the wedding by calling Belle "Mrs. Gold." 

[InsertWordHere]

Shouldn't Henry (yeah I know) and even Emma recognize right away what's going on since Frozen is an animated movie and he pretty much watched this stuff. He could have caught the movie during their hiatus in NYC? Or are they going to pretend there isn't an animated movie of Elsa and co? It just kinda hit me.

My guess, going by Charming's "Almost 30 years" since Emma's birth (which was in October 1983) is that it's around September or October 2013 in show time, so Frozen hasn't come out yet. That's assuming the show has actually been paying attention to the passage of time since the Curse broke. The snow in "A Curious Thing" would have been a little early, but late Fall snow showers are not unheard of in Maine. If it's supposed to be nearing Winter, I wonder how the characters are going to know that there's anything out of the ordinary going on. The snow in Frozen was so problematic because it happened in the middle of the summer so the kingdom was unprepared. Of course, magical ice storms are probably not desired in any season. Or they just run into Elsa freezing things and it won't matter.

[KAOS Agent]

They actually had a date on the Emma/Neal first date flashback in the finale. It was 2001. Since Henry is already 12 and we assume 9 months of pregnancy (full term is actually closer to 10 months) that right there pretty much puts you in 2014. That doesn't even count that I doubt Emma got pregnant the night they met, so there would be more time built in before the pregnancy. This show hasn't shied away from its characters knowing who they are dealing with, it's just always been the twist that the story from our world was never quite right. I don't see them having to make it so that Emma & Henry don't know anything about Frozen.

[retrograde]

From Jennifer Morrison's Oz Comic Con panel today:

 

Will Regina stay good or go bad?

The writers are going to work on Regina and Emma’s friendship this season. Emma is going to try to fight for Regina to stay good.

 

I don't think that's a direct quote as much as a summary, so grain of salt, etc. But I feel like this is going to set some fists shaking...

[KAOS Agent]

How does Emma feel about being a big sister?

I think it’s going to be really good for Emma. She had to give up Henry and now she’s going to watch her sibling grow up. There will be heart-warming moments and heartbreaking ones. She’s going to realise moments she missed with Henry that she can never get back.

 

And just how fucked up is it that the baby who is making her realize what she missed with Henry is named Neal - You know after the guy that knocked her up and left her underage self alone and in jail putting her in the position of having to give her son up and thus missing those moments with her baby.

Edited July 6, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[Serena]

What do you mean, he's named Neal? That kid's name is Prince Graham Snowflake of the Enchanted Forest!!! /denial

 

Yeah, that's awkward. 

[stealinghome]

I actually want Emma to think about the moments she missed. (You know, because of Regina and Rumpel.) This may make me a horrible person, but I'm so tired of Emma's angst about giving Henry up (largely because I feel like the show keeps using it as a way to hammer in that Emma! was! wrong! Regina! is! right!). Can Emma be reflective about herself for once?

 

Also, I'm rolling my eyes so hard at Emma fighting for Regina to stay good. Yes, because that burden should be on Emma. It would be just too crazy to ask Regina to take some f'ing responsibility for herself. (Disclaimer: I'm sure that's not how it's going to play out on-screen, and I know that appeasing the homicidal maniac amongst you is probably a good idea, but the way that was worded just really rankles me. Yet AGAIN it's on the victims of the abusers to convince the abusers to stop abusing them. Ugh.)

Edited July 6, 2014 by stealinghome

[Serena]

Some hopeful news from the JMO CC panel:

 

 

she talked a bit about elsa and anna’s entrance to the show next season and how they impact storybrooke. she said there will be a lot of parallels between emma and elsa because both of them have magic that they didn’t ask for and don’t really want it or understand how to control it. she also said there will be parallels between emma and anna as well and we’ll see it all unfold.

This should be good! (until the writers take it and give it to Regina instead, that is)

[Rumsy4]

Sounds promising! Although Henry is more like Anna, no? :-p However, from several of these quotes, I get the feeling that they are going for an Elsa who is still struggling to control her powers a little. It could work...

[CatMack]

I think having Elsa still struggling with her powers, and paralleling it with Emma could be great.  If this is post Frozen movie (which we're pretty sure it is, right?) then that actually helps with one of the bigger issues I had with the movie (it was cute and I like it, but it wasn't perfect).  If Emma's resolution in the season 3 finale was like someone flipping a switch, then Elsa's in the movie was like someone using a clapper to turn the light on.  She went from completely out of control with her powers, to her sister saving her with the power of love, realizing that love was the secret to controlling her powers, and completely undoing everything she did in the space of about 5 minutes.  And I mean 5 minutes in universe.  If she shows up on Once and doesn't actually magically have perfect control over her powers that would add a nice little bit of complexity there, where embracing it instead of fearing it like her parents taught her to helped her get some control but she still has to work hard on it.  Likewise, Emma made strides in season 3, but I'm glad to hear it doesn't sound like she's suddenly going to have perfected magic just because she opened a portal, and that she's still going to be struggling with it.  I just hope she actually gets to grow over an actual arch this time, not half a season of stagnation and then a giant leap forward in a single episode. 

[FAU]

I hope they're flashbacks that are relevant to Emma and Neal is just kind of there incidentally because he was around at that particular time. I agree with @stealinghome -- what more do we need to know about Neal now he's dead? I'd like to see more flashbacks to Emma's life post-Neal. Jail, for instance. Or bounty hunting!

 

Not only that, it's a little late for Emma to deal anything Neal related especially since he's dead and she's dealing with the next villain that Regina or Rumple will eventually take care of in the end.

 

Also, I'm rolling my eyes so hard at Emma fighting for Regina to stay good. Yes, because that burden should be on Emma. It would be just too crazy to ask Regina to take some f'ing responsibility for herself. (Disclaimer: I'm sure that's not how it's going to play out on-screen, and I know that appeasing the homicidal maniac amongst you is probably a good idea, but the way that was worded just really rankles me. Yet AGAIN it's on the victims of the abusers to convince the abusers to stop abusing them. Ugh.)

 

More Poor Regina antics unfortunately.

[maryle]

she talked a bit about elsa and anna’s entrance to the show next season and how they impact storybrooke. she said there will be a lot of parallels between emma and elsa because both of them have magic that they didn’t ask for and don’t really want it or understand how to control it. she also said there will be parallels between emma and anna as well and we’ll see it all unfold.



Good!

That was hoping for with the Elsa story, well that and I hope that Emma have to prove she love Hook( Frozing Heart)!

 

Regina arc at first seem to be about the triangle and the way she deals with that , actually it could be O K, but it should be the time for Regina to think about what she done not a Snow 2=Emma to become her cheerleader of good because she feels it's her fault that Robin broke up with Regina.

But I'm still scare of the writing.

For sure it is something like Emma struggle with her magic , but at the end Rumple and Regina will still save the day.

[YaddaYadda]

If Emma feels that she has to do everything she can to keep Regina good, then it doesn't say much about Regina's character.  Emma can feel bad about bringing Marian back (seriously?), but Regina should be responsible for Regina's actions and their consequences.

 

The rest sounds interesting.  So I get how Elsa and Emma parallel with the whole magic stuff, but what about Anna and Emma?  If someone wants to enlighten me on that particular character, it would be much appreciated.

[kili]

but what about Anna and Emma?  If someone wants to enlighten me on that particular character, it would be much appreciated.

 

Anna is hopeful, lightness, trusting and a little bit clumsy. I'm not seeing a lot of Emma there.

 

Anna is also loyal, loving, persistent and willing to die for the ones she loves. She refuses to give up trying to rescue her sister and ends up sacrificing her life for Elsa (although, that sacrifice itself saves her life because it is an act of true love).

 

Spoilers for Frozen:

Elsa accidently freezes Anna's heart which is slowly causing her to die. The trolls tell Anna/Kristoff that an act of true love can reverse the curse. Anna/Kristoff/Olaf believe that getting her fiance, Hans, to give her a True Love kiss will saver her. Turns out that Hans is an opportunistic a$$ who can't waint to kill her, so no True Love kiss. Olaf then informs Anna that Kristoff truly does love her and Anna sets off to find Kristoff (who is now also looking for her). Meanwhile, Hans sets off to kill Elsa and Elsa believes she has killed her sister. At the last moment, Anna is given the choice to either run to Kristoff to get the kiss to saver her own life or to save her sister's life. She chooses to save her sister and ends up a frozen block of ice. But, that act of true love (for her sister) causes her to thaw.

 

So, I suspect that we are going to see Emma give up her life to save somebody she loves (probably Baby Neal given the Anna connection) and that will ultimately save her life.

 

I wonder if we'll get to see the good wood trolls from Frozen. Poor trolls have gotten a lot of bad press in the OUAT universe so far.

[maryle]

So, I suspect that we are going to see Emma give up her life to save somebody she loves (probably Baby Neal given the Anna connection) and that will ultimately save her life.

 

Nothing against baby Neal (exept the name) but i think if all the stars wars connection by the writer and the cast and the fact that there so much Doubs about how Emma really feels about Hook it Will be him that She have to Save. Maybe Hook Save Neal (baby) and risk hie live so Emma made a acte of trie love and Save hlm .

[Camera One]

I wonder if we'll get to see the good wood trolls from Frozen. Poor trolls have gotten a lot of bad press in the OUAT universe so far.

 

Their role will probably be played by Rumple?  Since on this show, people only get help from Rumple.  So does this mean Rumple as the Dark One raised Kristoff for a short time and that's how his heart melted a little?

Edited July 6, 2014 by Camera One

[Serena]

Nothing against baby Neal (exept the name) but i think if all the stars wars connection by the writer and the cast and the fact that there so much Doubs about how Emma really feels about Hook it Will be him that She have to Save. Maybe Hook Save Neal (baby) and risk hie live so Emma made a acte of trie love and Save hlm .

Yes. I'm biased, but since 3A and 3B were all about Hook proving his love to Emma, and the finale had a conversation from Hook about "I don't know if she would do for me but I did for her", I think narratively it makes more sense for the person Emma sacrifices for to be Hook as a continuation of that storyline. I mean, I don't think many people are actually asking "but does Emma really love her brother?"

[Camera One]

Or maybe Emma makes the sacrifice for Regina, to parallel how Regina sacrificed her life/happiness for all humankind at the end of both Season 2 and Season 3. A test of the new sisterly bond between Emma and Regina.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Camera One

[InsertWordHere]

Emma will save Regina and then all the characters will line up to thank Regina for allowing Emma to save her.

 

I kid. Emma is her father's daughter, and Charming's sacrificed himself like three times now, so I could see Emma doing something similar to save someone she loves or just the town in general.

[retrograde]

Also, I'm rolling my eyes so hard at Emma fighting for Regina to stay good. Yes, because that burden should be on Emma.

Although I think you're probably right that that is how it will play out, I don't think the burden necessarily needs to be on Emma for her to want to help Regina stay away from evil — for Henry's sake if nothing else. I mean, she'd be well within her rights to say, "Screw you, you brought this on yourself," but the whole town will suffer if Regina goes dark again, so if there's something Emma can do (though I'm not entirely sure that that would be), I imagine she would want to do that. 

[Serena]

I've been wondering... do you guys think season 4A will be villain-less (since we know Elsa is not gonna be a real 'Big Bad') or are they gonna spring a surprise villain on us? I'm hoping for option 1, honestly, so hopefully there will be more time for character interactions. But I'm not sure A&E can resist.

[retrograde]

I wonder if perhaps there will be a villain in Elsa's past, hence how she ended up in the bottle. Whether that villain will cross over into Storybrooke, and if so how soon, I don't know. 

 

I would love 4A to be more character-driven. Sure, they've got the Elsa thing and the Marian thing, but it would be nice to see them slow down a little and have a bit more focus on day-to-day stuff — Emma returning to her job as the sheriff and dealing with other crimes and problems in Storybrooke that don't necessarily relate to the half-season arc, for instance. But I agree that they can't resist making every episode about the characters facing sudden doom.

[Camera One]

I think for the first few episodes, they will think Elsa is a villain, which in effect could be the same thing (eg. Anton the giant trying to stomp the entire town).  With the spoiler that seems to suggest Emma will be in the same boat as Elsa learning to control their powers, maybe then the villain will turn to whoever took/captured Anna and Kristoff.  I would love the 4A to be villain-less as well.  

 

I've mentioned this before, but my hope is that the problem could be external... Elsa (since she can't control her powers) freezes Storybrooke which makes magic not possible, and the Curse malfunctioning, so the townspeople would need to look to the leadership to provide them with basic needs, which would cause enough weekly problems to solve.

 

Sadly, it wouldn't surprise me if Marion shapeshifted into some evil mastermind near the end of 4A.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Camera One