Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Jean]

I dn't think Robin is the problem. Is it really going to make a huge difference or make it better by swapping out one prop for another prop? They will all be props anyway. I don't even care except changing props now might be sacrificing a character that I like to take on that duty instead.

So if the Anna/Elsa reunion is in 4x09 where shit hits the fan for Rumple, could Anna be the key? She knew Belle and Rumple in the past so she might have the goods on him and spill.

[Amerilla]

{quote]Any chance Rumple actually loses his powers by the end of 4x11?  Or even as soon as 4x09?  That's a serious fall to take for someone like Rumple who is not only addicted to his powers and power in general, who chose his powers over those he loved time and time again (killing Pan not withstanding), has not lived without those powers for some 2-3 centuries.  I wonder if the show would have the balls to do something like that. 

 

I would love that. It's pretty clear that they're going to need something akin to the Sorcerer's hat in the OUAT Writer's Room to keep generating stories to keep him Dark One for season after season. I think S3 made it plain that that aspect of Rumpel's personality has been played out, even in terms of Imp!Rumple in the fairybacks. 

 

And as much as I think Carlyle doesn't want to completely lose that aspect of Rumpel in favor of something softer, it seems to me like he's having a harder and harder time sustaining the energy in his perfomance. Losing the whole Bae/Neal storyline was a big blow to him, because so much of the way he conceived and built Rumpel was wrapped around that relationship, and now that it's gone, there's nothing for him to anchor to that has quite the same emotional punch...not even if they were to give him a new baby with Belle (which they inevitably will) or send in Henry as a proxy son.

 

Do they have the balls? No. I would be shocked.
  

But I also think that he has a deep seeded and grudging respect for Hook's bravery and resolve, even when it causes the pirate to do really crappy things

 

Nope. I don't think there's a single molecule in Rumple's body that has any kind of respect for Hook. I think he's going to delve into this with the joy a slightly psychotic child applies to tearing the wings off flies. Which I would rather watch than a million CS kisses.

[KingOfHearts]

Uggggh, the show really just needs to kill off Robin. I can't believe I'm saying this, but both Marian and Regina deserve better than this schmuck!

Yes please... If they want their big twist, please let it be this. He doesn't affect Regina at all. She's already over him. I just want to stop watching him constantly giving Marian the short end like she's a leftover.

Edited October 11, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

I actually think killing off Robin isn't completely unrealistic. The actor is still technically listed as a recurring character, so you'd think they did that for a reason. And by comparison, isn't Socha listed as a regular? So I could see a potential Robin death at the end of 4B for more Regina angst in Season 5.

 

Now that we know Hook uses the fake dagger information to blackmail Rumple into helping him and Elsa find the Snow Queen in Episode 3, I'm even more curious as to how he gets his hand back in Episode 4.

[Mari]

I actually think killing off Robin isn't completely unrealistic. The actor is still technically listed as a recurring character, so you'd think they did that for a reason. And by comparison, isn't Socha listed as a regular? So I could see a potential Robin death at the end of 4B for more Regina angst in Season 5.

I have trouble seeing them actually permanently kill Robin off--they've stated a couple of times that their series mission was "Where could the Evil Queen get a happy ending?"  Since they've killed off Daniel, and then 2nd level True Loved Robin, I'm not sure they're able to imagine a happy ending for Regina that doesn't include Robin.  I think right now he's the end game, in one form or another.

 

However, I do think that angst in one form or another is on the plan as well.  If they decide to ramp up the Regina suffering, I think it's more likely that some sort of long-term curse or separation is likely;  in fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all that at least 1/2 season arc (whether 4B or their planned 5 something) includes the Regina and various Storybrookers gathering to ensure Regina gets her happy ending by rescuing/curing Robin.

[Rumsy4]

So, I was reading more spoilers for the episode, & apparently Robin does kiss Marian, but it doesn't work. Then, he tells Regina that it did not work because he is in love with someone else (me gagging here). I think when the Snow Queen is defeated, Marian's Curse will also be broken. If she doesn't die by the end of 4A, and she has some self-respect, she will leave Robin. Which frees up Robin to get back to Regina.

However, it is quite possible that Maleficent will capture Robin or something. I bet 4B will end with a True Love kiss between Robin and Regina, because a failed TLK involving Robin & Marian screams set up for a successful one later in the Season.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm fairly convinced that Maleficent is Regina's arc much like Zelena was.  Guess we'll have to pay attention to their promos (ie Evil vs Wicked) What I find sad is that there seems to be an audience for the failed TLK or whatever it is.  Talk about a slap in the face.

Edited October 11, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[KingOfHearts]

In one of the recaps, it states the Snow Queen insists Anna urned Elsa and the trolls took Elsa's memory of it away. I actually think that could be true. Apparently the Snow Queen freezes Hans before he can urn Elsa in the episode. I find that all interesting when trying to figure out her intentions.

Edited October 11, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[sharky]

OK, crack theory. What if the TLK doesn't work because of Marian? What if she loved someone else in Sherwood Forest? What if Will somehow reveals something while here like Marian was having an affair with some random Merry Man and hands are clean! Problem is solved! Wheeeeee!

[Artsda]

I can see that happening, like Knave? 

[scenicbyway]

In the interview from NY Comic Con, Adam or Eddy said that Emma is supposed to bring back all of the happy endings, including Regina's.  I'm guessing this means that Regina gets her happy ending before Emma? Great.  Because I'm sure Regina deserves to have hers before the woman who's life she ruined for 28 + years.

 

I just don't care about Robin and Regina.  I feel like they progressed waaaay too fast.  They didn't like each other in the missing year but the moment they are alone at Zelena's house they have a moment?  Then Regina is able to know for sure it's real because he's got the tattoo?  Yet, they refuse to confirm Hook and Emma are true love even though they are on a path of epic adventure and make each other better.  At least Robin tried to kiss Marian.  The story of Robin and Marian is epic though, it's a shame that Robin's really the Evil Queen's true love.

 

When Hook gets his hand back, and then loses it again, shouldn't that be a big discussion between he and Emma?  I hope they don't brush (or I guess sweep in this case) it under the rug like it's no big deal.

 

I do like that the writers are saying that everything Rumple is doing right now, is for Rumple.  He's basically not learned anything by losing Neal (yet another reason why Neal isn't a hero).

[retrograde]

This is not technically spoilery, I guess, but this topic has been discussed so damn much in this thread, I thought it deserves a mention here: apparently the producers (by which I assume she means Adam and Eddy and not the suits) have confirmed to this entertainment reporter that Hook is indeed staying at Granny's. So that mystery is solved. 

 

I do like that the writers are saying that everything Rumple is doing right now, is for Rumple.  He's basically not learned anything by losing Neal (yet another reason why Neal isn't a hero).

I do too, but holy shit did some Rumple fans (most of whom are, I assume, Rumbelle fans) flip the hell out on social media over that one. I actually find it way harder to believe people out there don't think Rumple is a self-serving asshole than that people don't think Regina is a self-serving asshole. The show doesn't even pretend that Rumple is good. It's like we're watching two different shows.

 

RE: Marian and her heart. I'm pretty sure she will be kept on ice -- literally and figuratively -- until the Snow Queen is defeated, and the ice magic disappears. Still don't see how they're going to resolve the storyline after that though. Unless she becomes a villain and teams up with Maleficent to enact revenge on the citizens of Storybrooke, which would actually be kind of awesome. 

[RadioGirl27]

In the interview from NY Comic Con, Adam or Eddy said that Emma is supposed to bring back all of the happy endings, including Regina's. I'm guessing this means that Regina gets her happy ending before Emma? Great. Because I'm sure Regina deserves to have hers before the woman who's life she ruined for 28 + years.

Yeah. I'm sure Emma would not get her complete happy ending until the very last episode of the show. That's why I'm sure we are not going to see a TLK between Emma and Hook (I'm fine with this, the TLK was cheapened when Regina was able to give one without a heart and to the son she has been abusing).

When Hook gets his hand back, and then loses it again, shouldn't that be a big discussion between he and Emma? I hope they don't brush (or I guess sweep in this case) it under the rug like it's no big deal.

Don't worry. They are not going to loose an opportunity to add more angst to that relationship.

[retrograde]

More blurry cell phone clips from 4.03 at this tumblr, if anyone's interested.

[Serena]

I haven't watched any of the clips, but I did click on that Tumblr and read some asks and... there are people who loved Hans? HANS?

[maryle]

I'm really curious about the Snow Queen and Rumple.  

 

She knew about the savior  and was helped Rumple for her own reason or just wanted Emma because she knew Emma could be magical without Rumple knowing it.

 I'm gessing they will just retcon or twist the canon story in some lame way ...again.

[KingOfHearts]

 

More blurry cell phone clips from 4.03 at this tumblr, if anyone's interested.

You know you're obsessed about spoilers when you watch blurry cell phone clips just hours before the episode premieres. That'd be me.

 

Looks like Hans is going to be a villain with a sob story that won't be taken seriously.

Edited October 12, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

A new script tease from Adam. So now we are dropping names.

[HeimrArnadalr]

I haven't watched any of the clips, but I did click on that Tumblr and read some asks and... there are people who loved Hans? HANS?

Yes, there are a number of people who ship Hans with the Arendelle sisters. 

 

At least Anna had the excuse that she hadn't seen the end of Frozen yet. Maybe these people haven't either...

[retrograde]

Yeah, I'm a diehard SwanHanser, and can I just say that I am appalled at how little screen-time the show has give this pairing this season? Like, we're basically three episodes in and they haven't had a single scene together, even though anyone with a functioning pair of eyes can see how much chemistry they have together -- or would have if the writers would stop cockblocking their true love. It's clear the Adam and Eddie just hate SwanHans fans. 

[scenicbyway]

Yeah, I'm a diehard SwanHanser, and can I just say that I am appalled at how little screen-time the show has give this pairing this season? Like, we're basically three episodes in and they haven't had a single scene together, even though anyone with a functioning pair of eyes can see how much chemistry they have together -- or would have if the writers would stop cockblocking their true love. It's clear the Adam and Eddie just hate SwanHans fans. 

So true, so true.  If only Neal hadn't died, we could've seen ElsaFire!  I'm pretty sure she would've Frozen him upon meeting him though.

[InsertWordHere]

So true, so true.  If only Neal hadn't died, we could've seen ElsaFire!  I'm pretty sure she would've Frozen him upon meeting him though.

What a missed opportunity by these writers. Forever bitter about FrozenFire.

[RadioGirl27]

So many missed opportunities ;-)

 

Another "exciting" script tease.

[Rumsy4]

FrozenFire is amazing for the ship name alone!

Another "exciting" script tease.

I love your use of the quotation marks! ;-)

[Anakerie]

Oh please. Anyone can see that Hans needs to immediately find his True Love in the arms of Grumpy. Humpy forever!

[SilverShadow]

I haven't watched any of the clips, but I did click on that Tumblr and read some asks and... there are people who loved Hans? HANS?

I enjoy the hell out of Hans. IMO his fake personality, sadly, was much more engaging than Kristoff, and I love the concept of a villain genre-savvy enough to realize that the way to get what he wants is to act like a hero (at least in front of other people). He's like two steps ahead of Regina right there. And the fact that he is genuinely smart and charismatic, but has a serious chip on his shoulder because he's been passed over his whole life makes for some interesting layers. Not saying Elsa and Anna are the real monsters (because no) but I dig the guy as a character and hope we see a good amount of him on Once.

[pezgirl7]

I can't wait for next week's episode! I love that Emma is the one who asks Hook out on the date, and the reveal of Hook at the door was a cool shot. Although I couldn't help but think that Emma looked like she was going to prom, and Hook looked like the bad boy your parents wouldn't approve of. After seeing Emma's outfit, I can't figure out why they covered her up during filming.

I also can't figure out the sequence of events with the hand, since first Hook is asking about reattaching it in his pirate garb, but when he does get it, I think he's in the new outfit. I'm guessing Gold makes him run an errand first before he'll give Hook his hand back.

Edited October 13, 2014 by pezgirl7

[Artsda]

 

Hook looks even better in street clothes!

[Writing Wrongs]

That hand in the jar totally reminded me of Doctor Who.

[YaddaYadda]

Wonder what kind of deal Hook made with Rumple or if he's still milking the whole I know Belle has a fake dagger.

[InsertWordHere]

That hand in the jar totally reminded me of Doctor Who.

If someone touched it during a perilous moment and we somehow ended up with two Hooks, I wouldn't complain. Alternatively, if it brings me Captain Jack chasing Hook down with his hand in a jar, I also would not complain.

[Bluerang1]

I'm cracking up at the pissibilty of Anna as the dark one but she was holding a sword not the dagger. And finally a costume change for Hook!

[YaddaYadda]

I thought it was interesting that Snow Queen blocked Elsa's magic when she tried to help out Hook.  And then she goes on about Emma's magic and if she thinks it's stronger (which apparently it is or Emma had a completely visceral reaction to seeing Hook trapped there).  And we know or think that Emma's powers go completely wonky.  If she can block Elsa's magic, she can probably mess with Emma's magic as well, make her believe she's the one who lost control of it. 

[scenicbyway]

I'm not sure what I was expecting for Emma's date dress, but this wasn't it.  It does look like a prom dress.  JMo wears such interesting clothes in real life, I was hoping they'd go with something more edgy maybe?  She looks completely princessy in this dress, which, perhaps, is the point.

 

As for a timeline in the next episode, based on filming spoilers:

 

Emma asks Hook out.  (Which I'd like to know why he doesn't do the asking.  Even though she seems to run the relationship)

 

Hook goes back to Rumple's and finds his hand there.  (Why is it in a jar?  Wasn't it just in the cupboard before?)

 

Hook goes shopping with his restored hand, buys clothes and a rose.

 

Hook picks up Emma, with the rose and hand?

 

They go to a fancy dinner not a Granny's

 

Will Scarlet interrupts their dinner, Hook punches him out.

 

Hooks wakes up drunk on the dock with Rumple standing over him.

 

Hook take matters into his own hand(s) and the Hook is back.  Boo.

 

I'm guessing the interrupted date starts off the real Captain Swan angst of the season.  I want to be excited for the date but, knowing it doesn't end well, nearly ruins it for me.

[Mari]

I'm not sure what I was expecting for Emma's date dress, but this wasn't it.  It does look like a prom dress.  JMo wears such interesting clothes in real life, I was hoping they'd go with something more edgy maybe?  She looks completely princessy in this dress, which, perhaps, is the point.

It's not what I expected, but it is an interesting choice--simply because both times we've seen Emma do anything date-like (the pilot and New York Serenade) she's worn very fitted, stark, short dresses.   They were clothes that didn't really conceal her body much, but also were  not necessarily something she'd think of as traditionally romantic or princess. 

 

Not sure if the costumes are actually speaking to the characters' emotional states, but it is a definite change.

[InsertWordHere]

Doesn't the Snow Queen cause Emma's accident in this episode as well?

[scenicbyway]

Doesn't the Snow Queen cause Emma's accident in this episode as well?

I thought that might be episode 7?  Didn't they film it just a couple of weeks ago?

It's not what I expected, but it is an interesting choice--simply because both times we've seen Emma do anything date-like (the pilot and New York Serenade) she's worn very fitted, stark, short dresses.   They were clothes that didn't really conceal her body much, but also were  not necessarily something she'd think of as traditionally romantic or princess. 

 

Not sure if the costumes are actually speaking to the characters' emotional states, but it is a definite change.

I like the idea of it fitting her emotional state.  Hook already sees her as a princess, it would be nice for her to see herself as "special" even for a little bit.  I like that Hook steps it up.  She does the asking, but he picks her up.  His first clothing change in 100+ years, I'm sure Emma Swan is worth it.

[Jean]

I hope Rumple and Anna is as fun as it looks. Why is he making her want to kill him though? And how does that connect to the present Hook/Rumple?

Anyone get the feeling that what they're going for with the Snow Queen is kind of like Magneto? That whole magic makes you a freak and they fear us conversation is like shades of X-Men. Her sisters probably urned her or that's what she thinks. And I think she genuinely cared for Elsa and maybe Emma. Her view is just twisted and she thinks they should band together and form the Sisterhood of Blonde Mutants but they didn't go for it.

[stealinghome]

Ha, I just made that same comparison on the 4x03 thread!

[Jean]

Great minds and all Stealinghome? I wasn't sure if it should go in that thread or this one since we know that SQ was here in land without magic and that there's another sister. Anyhow I do hope that she was Emma's foster mom and did care for her and Elsa so that they can't kill her at the end. I'd like to see her pop in and out for a visit after Frozen wraps up. There would be no red tape bureaucracy to get through with her like with Elsa and co.

[scenicbyway]

Thinking about SQ's response to seeing Emma.  She seemed touched, but maybe, also a little afraid?  Rumple knows she's there to get something from Emma it seemed.

 

  I also thought Rumple's remark about hoping for Hook's sake (sacrifice?)  Emma was worth it.  Throw the sorcerer's hat into the mix along with the parallel to the urn tonight.  We know the urn works basically the same as the hat, it's just that the hat can accommodate more than one person.  I wonder if Rumple's storyline this season is to capture every magical person in the hat and take over Storybrooke himself?  With Regina and Emma out of the way, what's to stop him?  Maybe Robin and Hook's love for their ladies free them from the hat?

[InsertWordHere]

New theory: Anastasia is in the hat and that is why Will is in town. I have no idea if it's even possible for the owner of the hat to get to Wonderland, I just want to figure out where Ana (my favorite character from that show next to Will) is and why Will isn't with her besides the obvious metatextual reasons.

 

Judging from the promo, they seem to be giving the light touch to Hook's returned hand. I know it's a promo and they are often filled with quips and eye-catching moments, but I hope the hand return is handled with some seriousness. It should be a big deal and I don't want it to just be treated as a joke, even if it's only temporary.

I thought that might be episode 7?  Didn't they film it just a couple of weeks ago?

Hmm, for some reason, I thought this happened before the date. I'm fairly certain that Emma was wearing the same jacket in the diner in the promo that she was wearing when Dairy Queen caused the accident and she chased her down the alley, but she often wears the same jacket in consecutive episodes. Does anyone remember when we got the accident filming pics?

[maryle]

Her sisters probably urned her or that's what she thinks. And I think she genuinely cared for Elsa and maybe Emma. Her view is just twisted and she thinks they should band

 

 

 

 

I have this crazy theory that she wants or needs to convince Elsa and Emma for something ( maybe because the ice castle ) or just to protect them from the non magical people. Maybe it is her own family (Elsa's mother who urned her) so for her everyone is an ennemy of magical being and they must remain together for their own safety or to fight the common enemy.

[Rumsy4]

New theory: Anastasia is in the hat and that is why Will is in town.

Hmm, for some reason, I thought this happened before the date. I'm fairly certain that Emma was wearing the same jacket in the diner in the promo that she was wearing when Dairy Queen caused the accident and she chased her down the alley, but she often wears the same jacket in consecutive episodes. Does anyone remember when we got the accident filming pics?

I like the theory about Ana. I hope they didn't write her out of the story by claiming Time Travel shenanigans.

If you mean the car accident, I too think that happens next week.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Jean]

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/10/13/once-upon-time-elizabeth-mitchell-snow-queen-spoilers/

EM's new interview. The new spoilery bits: She's motivated by an honorable thing and trying to steer people down a certain path (yep Magneto), and Rumple/SQ camraderie will change. The other stuff we kind of already know like the Emma/SQ connection is important to both and she got here by some other way than the curse.

EM also said they're about to shoot the last episode for the arc so 9 or 10? The part about her going barefoot is hilarious.

[Serena]

EM also said they're about to shoot the last episode for the arc so 9 or 10? The part about her going barefoot is hilarious.

Depends on what the interview took place. If it was recent, like Friday, then she probably meant 10. The filming pics we got last week were from 9.

[InsertWordHere]

Rumple/SQ camraderie will change.

Welp, I feel like once Rumple's after her, SQ won't be long for this world, like all the other women who have ever gone against him. The one area Regina has shown intelligence in is that she's never directly opposed a fully powered Rumple. Her little Belle trick nearly cost her dearly.

[FabulousTater]

From the EW interview linked to up thread:
 

The Snow Queen appears to know Emma from her past. Is there anything you can say about their connection?

I know that everyone thinks it might be negative, so Emma must think that. I can say it’s surprising, but I can’t really [say much] because it’s so much a part of the whole thing. It’s one of those ones where it’s definitely worth keeping an eye on, and it does mean a lot to both of them[...]

This makes me think that perhaps Emma found herself in a bad foster home situation and the Snow Queen got her out of it. Perhaps stayed with her for a while, but for one reason or another were separated (Emma's magic went wonky and got her moved to yet another home???) That look The Snow Queen gave Emma in "Rocky Road" when she first saw Emma seemed to have a hint of sadness (along with a touch of fear). Wow, I'm intrigued. I'm really liking this development (and man, let me tell ya, it's been a looooong time since I've been interested in any plot developments in this show.)

Edited October 13, 2014 by FabulousTater

[InsertWordHere]

I was looking over screencaps of the promo and I noticed that Hook has his pirate outfit on in the first clips with Rumple when he asks if Rumple can reattach the hand, but in the clip where they show the hook and hand in the same shot, he is wearing the new outfit. Is this two different scenes or does Rumple change his clothes? I did not think it was the latter because I thought O'Donoghue said that Hook picks out the new look for himself. Does Hook not accept whatever deal Rumple offers him at first and then later changes his mind for some reason? Maybe he decides that the hook just does not accessorize well with the new outfit?

Edited October 13, 2014 by InsertWordHere

[Ariah]

If you mean the car accident, I too think that happens next week.

Perhaps this car accident will be the thing that triggers Emma to ask Hook out. Near-death experience (well, the second in two days...) can do that to a person.