Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Mari]

That would be too much even for this show. So they are probably going there. The Snow Queen wants revenge over her sisters' daugthers and granddaughter, because Ava and Elsa's mom stole her toys.

Weren't there some specific statements by A&E that no one in the Frozen group would be related to the Once group?  I agree that it's something they'd probably like to do, but would it be considered messing with Frozen too much to make Anna and Elsa cousins with Snow through Eva?

[InsertWordHere]

I dislike the everyone is related aspect of the show too, but in this case, I wouldn't mind it, as I think it would improve upon the overall worldbuilding and provide a good explanation as to why Eva was a princess but apparently not the crown princess and why Snow couldn't turn to her mother's side of the family for aid as the rightful queen was urned at the time. And a small correction, if Eva and Elsa's Mom are sisters than Elsa/Emma would be first cousins once removed, not second cousins.

[Jean]

Yeah A&E said Elsa/Anna aren't related to any of the Once folks, probably cause Disney wouldn't let them. But that the Snow Queen would have a Frozen and a Once connection. The Snow Queen/Once connection can't be blood relations cause that would crossover into the Frozen side. Foster mom is probably the closest they could get away with.

As for the 3 Arendelle sisters it's probably to give the Snow Queen a sob story. They can't do too much with Elsa's mom with Disney keeping them in check but this other sister is a nobody

[retrograde]

They filmed a horse riding scene with the Snow Queen yesterday (albeit using a stunt double).

[Rumsy4]

Was this interview linked before? It's all starting to blend together. 

 

 

There is some stuff that’s going to be revealed that actually impacts everyone in the sense that there’s just some information that comes out about her past that changes the overall puzzle that we’re all considering in this story.

 

That could be interesting, and obviously tied to EM's Snow Queen, but knowing EM's Snow Queen leaves by the end of 4A, I'm not getting too excited. 

 

 

[Hook and Emma] are trying to figure out how to get to know each other amidst all these crises, and how to make time to go on a date. It’s a very unique take on the beginning of dating.

 

Unique=craptastic, is what I'm getting.

[RadioGirl27]

 

There is some stuff that’s going to be revealed that actually impacts everyone in the sense that there’s just some information that comes out about her past that changes the overall puzzle that we’re all considering in this story.

We are going to discover that Emma is, in fact, the big bad of the show, and Regina is a wonderful human being who actually did a favour to everybody in the Enchated Forest with the course, and sending that little witch away.

 

Ok, I'm kidding. I guess they are going to make it look like the Snow Queen is after Elsa, to later show that she is in fact after Emma, for something that happened during Emma's childhood.

Edited October 4, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[kitticup]

Was this interview linked before? It's all starting to blend together. 

 

 

That could be interesting, and obviously tied to EM's Snow Queen, but knowing EM's Snow Queen leaves by the end of 4A, I'm not getting too excited. 

 

 

Unique=craptastic, is what I'm getting.

Now you have me worried. I ship CS (not hardcore), but I didn't like them in the premiere. I felt all there scenes were forced and I never felt that way before. It was also the only time I felt Hook's pirate clothes were wearing him and not the other way around.

[Rumsy4]

Now you have me worried. I ship CS (not hardcore), but I didn't like them in the premiere. I felt all there scenes were forced and I never felt that way before. It was also the only time I felt Hook's pirate clothes were wearing him and not the other way around.

 

Yeah. They just had some really on-the-nose writing in the premiere. I too am getting tired of that long pirate coat. So glad Hook's getting a makeover soon! haha I'm not worried about CS as such, but these interviews and spoilers do seem to suggest a lot of angst right away. Getting mentally prepared... :-p

[Shanna Marie]

It was also the only time I felt Hook's pirate clothes were wearing him and not the other way around.

Probably because that was apparently a really hot day. That must have been like running around wearing a sauna. I'm really hoping that when they dig Emma out of the ice, he takes off the big, long coat and wraps her up in it. That would make so much sense, as it would cover her entirely and is probably the closest thing to a blanket they'd have handy. But that would presume they remember that costumes can be props, and the coat can be removed.

[kili]

I dislike the everyone is related aspect of the show too, but in this case, I wouldn't mind it, as I think it would improve upon the overall worldbuilding and provide a good explanation as to why Eva was a princess but apparently not the crown princess and why Snow couldn't turn to her mother's side of the family for aid as the rightful queen was urned at the time.

 

Plus, the destination that Snow could have been trying to buy passage to from Blackbeard/Random-Pirate-We-Know-To-Be-Future-Hook could have been Arendelle. She was trying to go by ship. Maybe she was trying to get to her mother's relative's kingdom even if she knew about the urning.

[InsertWordHere]

I thought about that too, Kili, but I think she did end up going to that place (I believe she said it was a farm). That's why she needed the coin purse back from the trolls.

[Serena]

Info on 408 filming. Emma, Elsa, and Snow Queen filmed individual scenes.

[InsertWordHere]

2 new sneak peeks! Hook, Charming, and Emma discuss the wall of ice and Emma and Elsa meet.

[stealinghome]

Rolling my eyes so hard at Hook. Yes, because the middle of an actual situation (with Emma's dad right behind you, no less) is the best time to get your game on.

 

The writers really need to dial Hook back on that front, because it's starting to get really obnoxious.

Edited October 5, 2014 by stealinghome

[Serena]

Love them! Except I'm pissed at how they're writing Emma. Of course she has her reasons for acting this way, like she had her reasons for her "I love NY" attitude, but why does her "I'm emotionally hurt" writing have to translate to "acting pissy with everyone"? She wasn't this way in S1 when she was REALLY emotionally closed off, and it's kinda unpleasant.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Serena

[RadioGirl27]

Rolling my eyes so hard at Hook. Yes, because the middle of an actual situation (with Emma's dad right behind you, no less) is the best time to get your game on.

 

The writers really need to dial Hook back on that front, because it's starting to get really obnoxious.

Yes! Hook is my favourite character, but I don't like that scene very much. I guess this scene is there to lead to the script tease of David and Hook, so they needed him flirting with Emma in front of David. But it doesn't make sense.

And the writers, once again, forget that he hasn't been cursed and they make Hook talk about champagne, ice buckets and dates.

 

Love them! Except I'm pissed at how they're writing Emma. How course she has her reasons for acting this way, like she had her reasons for her "I love NY" attitude, but why does her "I'm emotionally hurt" writing have to translate to "acting pissy with everyone"? She wasn't this way in S1 when she was REALLY emotionally closed off, and it's kinda unpleasant.

You know, this is what I was expecting, that she was going to start acting like in season 3B, so I'm not even pissed anymore.

Edited October 5, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Rumsy4]

I agree. Hook's starting to sound annoyingly needy, and Emma, cold. Didn't we just have Emma acting cold and pissy to Hook in 3B? And why does Charms sound annoyed too?

I think Hook is smart enough to figure out power cables, but his comments about dating ettiquette was strange and out of place.

I guess this is when Emma gets trapped with Elsa. And why again is Elsa hahing out by the ice wall if she wants to find her sister? It looks like she hadn't actually recognize Mr. Gold. So I guess she never actually met Rumple. Maybe Hans got the Urn from Rumple and trapped her.

[Serena]

Another script tease

Hopefully after the date in 404 their characterization will even out. Or maybe it'll get worse!

Edited October 5, 2014 by Serena

[InsertWordHere]

Yet again, the best development for Captain Swan (Emma calling Hook about a crisis) happened offscreen. In their efforts to prolong our suspense about Emma's feelings, they are making the relationship look too one-sided. Hopefully this will change by the end of tonight's episode.

 

I can buy Hook adapting well to life in Storybrooke, but he is adapting a little too well. I fear they are going to use all of their fish out of water material for Elsa and won't save any for Marian or Hook.

Edited October 5, 2014 by InsertWordHere

[YaddaYadda]

Oh Captain Hook!  There's a time for everything, but hey PLOT POINT for the "talk".  There are easier ways to do it.

[stealinghome]

I agree. Hook's starting to sound annoyingly needy, and Emma, cold. Didn't we just have Emma acting cold and pissy to Hook in 3B? And why does Charms sound annoyed too?

As for why David's annoyed, I'm assuming he had some sort of run-in with Hook earlier in the episode. That's the only thing that makes sense to me, because otherwise, yeah, his irritation is really inexplicable. Maybe Prince Snowflake kept him up all night?

 

I have to confess I didn't really get "cold and pissy" from Emma in that clip, though. In fact, given that she's trying to be all business (because it's her job) and focus on the mission at hand, I thought she was far less annoyed with Hook than she could have been. She showed some willingness to flirt back, after all.

Edited October 5, 2014 by stealinghome

[RadioGirl27]

A new script tease from Adam. Nothing new.

 

(It was already posted, sorry)

 

In the sneak peek, I'm more annoyed with Hook and Charming than with Emma actually. It just makes no sense, unless the date talk is there because after Hook and Charming save Emma, she ask him to go on a proper date (the one we know is going to happen in episode 4).

Edited October 5, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[YaddaYadda]

I have to confess I didn't really get "cold and pissy" from Emma in that clip, though.

 

I didn't get that either actually.  I thought he caught her off guard with the champagne comment .  I thought she got a kick out of the whole power line being down.

[Emma]

I actually liked the clip. I wonder if its David's talk that moves Hook into the wardrobe change and so on?

[Rumsy4]

I guess charming being annoyed with Hook is Good Form-lite, where the episode begins with Charming questioning Hook's intentions with Emma, and ends with them bonding over the saving of someone's life. But the way Charming keeps flipping back and forth over Hook for convenient plot reasons is starting to get old. 

 

I rewatched the clip, and I agree that Emma doesn't sound cold as much as back to "avoid" mode so she can focus on the job at hand. One can't blame her--they literally are in the middle of a crisis. More on the nose writing so that Emma will realize she wants to go on a date with Hook.

[stealinghome]

One can't blame her--they literally are in the middle of a crisis. More on the nose writing so that Emma will realize she wants to go on a date with Hook.

Yeah, it makes me think that the writers don't really get that it is in fact, appropriate for people to put their personal ish aside when dealing with an immediate crisis! (Of course, they love Regina, so I don't know why I'm surprised that they fail to realize this.)

[ShadowFacts]

From the clip with David I guess we can now confirm that they could in fact leave town, and now, "once again", they cannot.  At least some of the peasantry should/could have hit the road.

[Jean]

It bugs me that they placed Arendelle in the same realm as the Enchanted Forest/Fairytale land, separated only by a short ship's journey. They can't have Elsa knowing about magic elsewhere because that undermines the whole Disney movie. But because Anna has to go there by a magic-less way it has to be close. It's just hard to believe Arendelle is totally ignorant of all the magic shenanigans going on there. The King and Queen don't keep up with what their neighbors are up to? Even Whale knew of Rumple-Dark One and he was in a whole new realm. And Rumple didn't get word of Elsa the magical being when she threw her icy fit? Rumple was so worried about Bae in the Ogre wars, why didn't he just get on a ship and go to Arendelle where that's not a problem. Stealing money for passage is probably easier than stealing the Dark One's dagger. Ahh it bugs.

Yes, because the middle of an actual situation

But the point is they're always in a situation. They're never going to have an "appropriate" time for anything ever because a crisis is always going on. It's like last season when Charming and Emma were building a crib with Wicked looming over them. I suspect this is A&E's compromise of crisis and normal stuff.

[YaddaYadda]

So the clip seems to be implying that Emma has contacted Hook twice.  Does that mean he has a cell phone now?

[Mathius]

OK, how is Emma being bitchy, and how is Hook doing anything wrong here? He isn't seriously trying to woo Emma in the middle of a crisis: he's just JOKING about how crises are pretty much the only dates they seem to be able to go on since nothing ever slows down in Storybrooke. And it's not like the current crisis is at a life-or-death point either, it's just a power outage and a big ice wall. There's no reason Hook can't take the time for a little levity.

[pezgirl7]

I actually don't find Hook's flirtyness all that strange, since last episode he was just telling Emma that she needs to live her life amongst all the crises that keep happening. Might not have been the best timing, but it's not like their lives were in immediate danger. I did find his "That's what I would do" a little strange, and for some reason his accent sounded different.

I liked both Emma's and Hook's body language/stances. Her with her hands in her back pocket, her front side completely vulnerable to him, and Hook with his hand on his belt.

ETA Mathius, I was writing my reply when you were posting yours, but you took the words right out of my mouth! :)

Edited October 5, 2014 by pezgirl7

[Artsda]

He did say "distress call." So he has to have a phone? 

[Emma]

We see Hook using a walkie-talkie later in the episode. Maybe that's where he heard Emma's call?

[Rumsy4]

She probably called him at Granny's or wherever he's staying. If Hook now has a cellphone, they will show him use it, like they did with Belle.

 

The first "date" was them fighting the Snow Monster together. He's just joking, but his face fell when she apparently ignored him yet again to walk into the ice-wall and investigate. I had to roll my eyes. 

[YaddaYadda]

But Emma does that a lot though.  There was a giant portal open and she decided to go and check it out and she decided to parlay with the snow monster and now she's gonna go get herself trapped in a the South Pole.  If I were Hook, I'd be concerned that she doesn't give a second thought before she puts her life in danger.

Edited October 5, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[Rumsy4]

No--I was rolling my eyes at Hook. haha And yes, I agree Yadda Yadda. Emma is somewhat reckless/dim when it comes to rushing headfirst into danger. 

[stealinghome]

I think what tips this particular incidence over the line into annoyance for me is that it's starting to feel like Hook isn't respecting Emma's boundaries (and also is super whiny and clingy, never an attractive quality). If it was just a one-off thing, it would be fine--but at this point, I'm starting to wonder if Hook does anything with his life other than follow Emma around and basically whine at her to pay more attention to him. And it doesn't help that he is often basically saying "I want more commitment from you than you have expressed you are comfortable with giving right now," because I find that to be an uncomfortable subtext. I also think there's a difference between trying to get Emma to open up when they're walking down the street on a normal Monday morning versus trying to push in the middle of situation, when Emma's trying to work and figure out the big ice wall that just appeared and took out the entire town's power supply. Their lives may not be in danger, but that is something I would actually consider to be a real emergency situation. The timing is just off, for me. (Also, while I agree that Emma does at times need a good prod to get moving emotionally, at some point Hook is going to have to deal with the fact that this is who Emma is. While she has empathy to spare, she's not particularly sentimental-gushy or inclined toward talking about her feelings 24/7; she's someone who is pragmatic, who is going to be reserved, who's going to lock down to deal with the crisis at hand. If Hook is looking for someone who is going to text him every half-hour to say "ILU BOO!" and be all sappy 24/7, he's looking in the wrong place.)

 

idk, maybe after 3B I'm just really tired of the "Hook constantly chases Emma and then looks sad when he realizes that she has a life outside of him" dynamic in general and it's just bubbling over in this scene, but what was intended to be cute and charming just came off as annoying imo. Not a great forecast for tonight's ep....

[KingOfHearts]

2 new sneak peeks! Hook, Charming, and Emma discuss the wall of ice and Emma and Elsa meet.

 

The writing on this show! Hook is needy, Hook shouldn't know about the electricity, Emma just walks into danger, Charming is patronizing Hook, and doesn't even think Emma might be unsafe for walking into the ice cavern. It's becoming harder and harder to ship Captain Swan for me. Thought the second date comment was inappropriate, plus Emma pretty much ignored him.

 

Elsa/Emma scene was awesome. Can't wait to see their friendship tonight.

Edited October 5, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

idk, maybe after 3B I'm just really tired of the "Hook constantly chases Emma and then looks sad when he realizes that she has a life outside of him" dynamic in general and it's just bubbling over in this scene, but what was intended to be cute and charming just came off as annoying imo. Not a great forecast for tonight's ep....

 

Combined with the season premiere and this scene, I will admit that Hook is coming off as super-whiny. She just asked him to be patient in the morning (presumably), but that very night he's making snide remarks about not going on a proper date with her (how does he even know the concept of dating? Did someone explain the differences and similarities between courtship and dating to him?). 

 

In 3B, Hook doesn't constantly chase Emma though. He does want to be with her and participate in her life, and would like to be something more, but he doesn't push her or ask for anything. Emma went out of her way to be cutting and nasty with him, while keeping him by her side, because she was trying to protect herself from getting hurt. This one-sided dynamic between Hook and Emma spilling over into S4 is really annoying me. Either the writers should tone Hook down, or have Emma show more enthusiasm to be with Hook in the romantic sense. The pacing of the episodes also don't help. Because it's now episode 4.02, but it's still the same day as 4.01. 

[KAOS Agent]

Maybe everyone should just wait for the entire episode to air before making judgments on entire relationship dynamics based on clips that are not in context? They even edit some things out of sneak peeks, so I find it hard to deal when people start judging (both good & bad - not picking on anyone here) before seeing what exactly has happened before and after the clip. Remember the firestorm when the sneak peek of Regina & Emma playing the town in "Witch Hunt" came out? I refuse to watch the sneaks for this very reason. I think I'm overly optimistic about the Elsa/Emma meeting in tonight's episode (please God let Disney have had a big say in making this part of the Once Frozen story a positive viewing experience), but I refuse to let a bit of manufactured Captain Swan drama dim my excitement for tonight's episode.

 

That said, the reason for Emma's issues will out in the next episode, so this kind of thing with Hook might be a really heavy handed and annoying build up for the next episode in which we understand why Emma is being so standoffish. I'm seriously hoping that's the case and it's just the writers not understanding how irritating it is when this kind of crap is drawn out - particularly after a four month hiatus in which they left us with those two finally seeming to progress.

Edited October 5, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[YaddaYadda]

Regarding Hook, the writers have pretty much decided not to give him anything outside of Emma.  It's kind of like the David situation in a way which they seem to be addressing like 4 years later.  David had basically no one outside of his mother, then he met Snow and when his mother died, David had friends who were Snow's friends first.  Hook had a brother and no friends.  Hook had Milah and no friends and we can just go on like that.  And even if he had family and friends, they're likely long gone given his age, so outside of apparently Will Scarlett with whom he has a "complicated" relationship (he has a lot of those), the odds he'll be bumping into people he knows (that' aren't Smee and the crew he ditched to go find Emma) are slim to none. 

 

Anyway, as KAOS said and let's just wait and see.  I'll do what I usually do when I watch this show, check my brain at the door (that's probably the reason I don't remember half the stuff that happens).

[Serena]

I think it's a mix of things that makes the clips annoying. Like we've been bagging on Hook and Emma, but what about David? He wants to know his "intentions"? Dude, the guy jumped into a weird black portal for her. He told you he'd follow her until the end of time. You REALLY need to ask about his intentions? David comes off as needlessly confrontational, too. And now that I've complained about every character featured in the sneak peeks (no, wait: also, Elsa's ice is too cold!), I can wait the three hours left until the actual episode.

[stealinghome]

Elsa/Emma scene was awesome. Can't wait to see their friendship tonight.

Yes--I did very much like that scene. I always love when Emma gets to show her empathetic side in general, and Haig just continues to have great presence as Elsa. Hell, I might be shipping Ice Swan soon!

[Shanna Marie]

Thinking about all the spoilers/speculation about Emma having hurt someone with magic and that being why she's pulling away from Hook now, plus the foreshadowing-laden (it seemed) line about him having all the time in the world unless a monster kills him, I think that the likely logical conclusion to this arc will be him being hurt and seemingly or nearly killed by something entirely unrelated (because it's pretty much a rule of drama that if you push someone away to protect them, they'll still be hurt by something entirely unrelated, leaving you with all those things unsaid), Emma doing the tearful confession of love and "don't leave" me scene and then inadvertently saving him with her magic, so she learns that her magic can save and protect the people she loves not just hurt them.

 

But on this show, the likely thing will be all the buildup about Emma fearing her powers, Hook being hurt and Emma doing the tearful confession of love over his dying body, and then Regina will show up and magically heal him -- never mind that she's been shown in the past as unable to heal with magic and never mind that she's using light magic while working with the man she imprisoned in a mirror to wipe her romantic rival out of existence. And then the author of the book will realize that Regina is a hero and a saint and admit that he needs to rewrite the book to give her a happy ending.

[RadioGirl27]

I think it's a mix of things that makes the clips annoying. Like we've been bagging on Hook and Emma, but what about David? He wants to know his "intentions"? Dude, the guy jumped into a weird black portal for her. He told you he'd follow her until the end of time. You REALLY need to ask about his intentions? David comes off as needlessly confrontational, too. And now that I've complained about every character featured in the sneak peeks (no, wait: also, Elsa's ice is too cold!), I can wait the three hours left until the actual episode.

It's just a problem of bad writing. They need to drag the angst between Hook and Emma for the big revelation in episode 3, but, at the same time, they need the new fans that have started to watch because of Frozen to know that those two character are in some kind of romantic relationship. So we end up with this kind of scene, where Hook looks needy, Emma cold and Charming confrontational.

Edited October 5, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Serena]

I've also noticed that often Jane Espenson will go for the quippy, snarky, Whedon-style one liner even when it doesn't make sense. Like I still believe that it made no sense for Hook to be the one to go "Says the daughter of Snow White and Prince Charming?" in Witch Hunt. That bugged me so bad. And the same thing is on display here.

[maryle]

I saw the sneak peak and mostly like it. It is true that all the date talking is to bring the date episode et maybe it could be better  but for that they will have to allow more screen time to the Relationship itself. This short echange with a humor tone  do what she have do to in a episode who will probably be like always plot driven.  I will take it. ( they still cute)  I'm not asking for more because on this  show it is pointless.

[KingOfHearts]

Like I still believe that it made no sense for Hook to be the one to go "Says the daughter of Snow White and Prince Charming?

 

You know, I wished they showed Hook becoming accustomed to this world instead of tossing in whatever knowledge is convenient for the plot or witty dialog. Does Hook even know how iconic Snow White and Prince Charming are? Also, if I were in Hook's position, there's no way I could have guessed some random wreckage was the cause of the power outage.

Edited October 5, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[ParadoxLost]

I've been avoiding spoilers but I just read the episode guide and I can't wait an hour.

 

Can someone please reassure me that Anna isn't some kind of motivational life coach who helps Charming stand up to his bully, Little Bo Peep.

[Rumsy4]

Can someone please reassure me that Anna isn't some kind of motivational life coach who helps Charming stand up to his bully, Little Bo Peep.

 

Muahaha... Ma Bo Peep's coming for you...