Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Shanna Marie]

It does make you wonder just how much that ComicCon moment when their big "ooh, isn't it cool?" tease of Henry riding his motorbike and running into Cinderella was instantly deflated by Colin's question about where he gets the gasoline affected them. They kind of laughed it off at the time, but if they really and truly hadn't thought of that before or if they just thought that the motorbike thing would be so cool no one would notice, then that might really have made them paranoid about showing anything else or giving anything else away. You don't want to throw out a teaser spoiler only to have all of Twitter immediately spot the logical flaw that it may be too late to correct -- or worse, that they could correct when they don't really want to. I think they'd rather keep their fingers in their ears and go "la la la, aren't we brilliant" than to open themselves to criticism that they might have to listen to even though it ruins their vision. If they don't come up with a handwave for the gas, it will weaken the story.

And it does also seem like the only thing they value is surprise, so if we aren't surprised and shocked, then it ruins everything. If we are surprised and shocked, that's good, even if we're only surprised and shocked because it comes out of nowhere and makes no sense at all.

[daxx]

A single line that Emma enchanted the bike will solve that problem. It doesn't even need to be said in the premiere, it could be mentioned when he talks to Hook, "how's the enchantment holding up on your vehicle" he could ask Henry.

[Camera One]

With the various returning guest characters, the first four episodes seem to be a continuation of Season 6, just with a significant time jump.  The only original characters we won't see are Snow and Charming, and the Writers have made them so insignificant over the years that the casual/typical viewer won't care they're not there.  I somehow doubt that the Writers are plotting the show any differently.  It's going to be same-old, same-old despite the changes in set dressing.

[tennisgurl]

I wonder if they aren't putting out many spoilers because they know that people will call back to those promises when they inevitably fall apart in the show itself?

"We are very invested in our LGBT couple we will be adding and their love will be just as epic as everyone else's!"

"...They had like one episode together and were never seen again."

"Well...here have some more Gideon!"

[Camera One]

I can't post this in the Other Fairy Tales thread because of the spoilers, so I'll post it here.

The whole curly-haired Regina and Cop Hook setup... it's very reminiscent of the flashbacksideways in Season 6 on "Lost".  They turned Sawyer into a cop for that too.  

Did they say if Henry has his full memories?  If that's the case, then he's playing more of the role of Neal than Emma.  

If he doesn't remember and Lucy has to "reawaken" him, then it's more of a straight-up replay of Season 1 with Henry playing Emma's role.

I don't know which would be more frustrating to watch... Henry remembering and then having to convince the Cursed Hook and Regina to remember him, or Henry not remembering, and having Lucy convince Henry that there is a Curse.  

[Rumsy4]

41 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I don't know which would be more frustrating to watch... Henry remembering and then having to convince the Cursed Hook and Regina to remember him, or Henry not remembering, and having Lucy convince Henry that there is a Curse.

Both scenarios sound equally frustrating--so they'll do both. First, Lucy will have to convince Henry that there's a Curse. Then he and Lucy will team up to convince Hook, Regina, etc.. 

[Camera One]

Agreed.  I mean, less than 10 minutes into Cursed Black Fairy Storybrooke in the Season 6 finale and Henry convincing Emma that the Curse was real, and I was already bored.  

So in some ways, a not-remembering Henry interacting with Hook and Regina in their Cursed personae might be the most palatable out of all the options.  It approximates Emma not believing interacting with Cursed Mary Margaret, but not quite.  There was a sadness about Mary Margaret and Emma separated for 28 years that gave the scenes a lot of poignancy.  I'm not sure that can be replicated with a grown-up Henry with Hook or Regina.  

Even in the Season 6 finale, I was already tired of Lucy.  Once again, the sadness of Young Henry seemingly grasping at straws to escape his situation in the pilot was the reason for his character working.  Lucy is 100% sure that the stories are true, since she herself grew up in the Enchanted Forest.  

A lot of the "reboot" seems to hinge on lightning striking twice.  

On another note, a Henry aware of the Cinderella story meeting another version of Cinderella also makes it very different from Snow White and Charming actually living a fairy tale life with no outer awareness.  

Edited August 4, 2017 by Camera One

[Camera One]

They sure are staggering their articles.  Will they have anything else to write about by September?

Quote

 “Episode 4 is a Rumple-centric type episode that will explain to the audience quite a lot about their relationship — actually even from way, way back in the Fairy Tale Land as well,” Carlyle tells EW about the hour. “It follows the course of their relationship through the years and it explains… where she is now in terms of her life after Storybrooke.”

What do we still need to learn from Fairy Tale Land about Rumple and Belle's relationship?  More retcons?  Some mean enchantress cast a Curse which had "forced" Rumple to betray Belle five times and Belle knew this.  That's why she always forgave him.

Quote

“The end of season 6 was truly a ‘happy beginning’ for Rumple and Belle and we’re excited to tell what we think is a deeply romantic story about where they go next as both a couple and as parents to Gideon,” executive producers Adam Horowitz and Edward Kitsis tease.

Oh yes, of course, that was truly such a happy beginning so now they're separated.  Deeply romantic story where one member of the couple is MIA and off the show.  This seems to indicate they will keep the True Love intact and provide some sob story for Rumple as he is apart from Belle and Gidiot.  A&E's definition of "deeply romantic" is seriously warped, considering the horrible "love story" Rumbelle got in Season 6.  They managed to sink to new lows.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

The Rumple episode already sounds horrible! Same old same old abuse glorification.

[Souris]

How telling they have NOTHING to say about Emma and her fate.

Apparently AdultHenry filmed at a cemetery in Hyperion Heights visiting a grave, so now even some optimistic Emma fans are freaking out.

I swing from my usual pessimism that they're killing Emma and belief that they're playing on fans' fears deliberately to get people talking/freaking out. Of course, one does not preclude the other.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Souris

[Camera One]

I think Emma will ultimately be alive, but I wouldn't put it past them to milk it for all its worth.  To develop those "walls", Henry will believe that Emma died.  For maximum drama, he would blame himself because of some surprise twist they will reveal via flashback.  Maybe he had a chance to go back, but he didn't, and by the time he returned to Storybrooke, the town had been decimated to ash and all he can find of Emma is a burned piece of her leather jacket.   Snowing probably "dies" too, for good measure.   Then, he finds out Cinderella has "left" him.  These events cause him to build up WALLS.   

[Souris]

I saw somebody speculate that he could believe his wife/Lucy's mom was dead.

[Camera One]

Yeah, I think that's a guarantee as well... the more tragic the better, though bitterness would increase more if it were more of a misunderstood "betrayal", orchestrated by Lady Tremaine to keep them apart.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Camera One

[superloislane]

3 hours ago, Camera One said:

A&E's definition of "deeply romantic" is seriously warped

Adam said he believes Captain Swan had a deeply romantic, epic adventure in season 6 so...

[KingOfHearts]

9 minutes ago, superloislane said:

Adam said he believes Captain Swan had a deeply romantic, epic adventure in season 6 so...

I just wish Emma was there for it. 

[Camera One]

They will also have Adult Henry and Jacinda (Cinderella) interact in the present-day without knowing they are True Loves, to make us want them together.  This makes me think that Adult Henry won't remember her, at least for a time.  This would replicate the whole Mary Margaret-David thing.  Lady Tremaine will trick Henry into being a facilitator in Jacinda being evicted from her apartment or something, as we flash back to their love story in the past.  Maybe they will have nicknames for each other... Henry can call Cinderella "Cindertrash" and Cinderella can call him "Orphansinceyourfamilyalldied", lovingly, of course.  Maybe they ride a (motor)bike together and fall.... that immediately leads to true love.  

Edited August 5, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Henry can call Cinderella "Cindertrash" and Cinderella can call him "Orphansinceyourfamilyalldied", lovingly, of course.  Maybe they ride a (motor)bike together and fall.... that immediately leads to true love.  

If Red and Dorothy's nicknaming skills are any indication, they'll probably call each other "Glassy" and "Penman". 

Edited August 5, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Or Henry will open up about all the loss he experienced in Storybrooke, and that would become his nickname.

I know Jane wanted us to come up with a ship name... Stupid Slippers?

Edited August 5, 2017 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

2 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I know Jane wanted us to come up with a ship name... Stupid Slippers?

Works for me.

While we're predicting ... what do you bet that she injures her hand in some way soon after their first meeting and he bandages it with his scarf in a really sexy way. It worked once, so they keep repeating it, and while they're rehashing stuff from earlier seasons, they might as well borrow all the stuff.

[Camera One]

CINDERELLA: "[Lady Tremaine] blames me for ruining her life."

HENRY: "Did you?"

CINDERELLA: "Yes."

HENRY: "Can you elaborate?"

CINDERELLA: "What's the point.  And tell me, are you running away from your past too?"

HENRY: "Can't Say."

[scenicbyway]

4 hours ago, superloislane said:

Adam said he believes Captain Swan had a deeply romantic, epic adventure in season 6 so...

Was that the adventure Emma had in the Wish Realm or the one Hook had on the Odyssey?  Because maybe Adam forgot they were separated for those?

[Free]

15 hours ago, Souris said:

How telling they have NOTHING to say about Emma and her fate.

Apparently AdultHenry filmed at a cemetery in Hyperion Heights visiting a grave, so now even some optimistic Emma fans are freaking out.

I swing from my usual pessimism that they're killing Emma and belief that they're playing on fans' fears deliberately to get people talking/freaking out. Of course, one does not preclude the other.

They and Jen were insistent that she was only in 1 episode, which we know from the filming info.  That and how they awkwardly handled her exit in the interviews certainly didn't help.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Free

[Camera One]

Quote

Adam said he believes Captain Swan had a deeply romantic, epic adventure in season 6 so...

Moving reply to All Seasons

Edited August 5, 2017 by Camera One

[Souris]

22 minutes ago, Free said:

I mean, can you blame them? 

I can always blame them. For anything. Including those annoying subscription cards that fall out of magazines.

[CCTC]

2 minutes ago, Camera One said:

then they got engaged and then one lied to the other

Wasn't that just a little lie about killing her grandfather?  Nothing that cannot be resolved in a half an episode or less.

This really is not a solid statement, because I am just basing it on a couple of pics I have seen and it is not backed by anything substantive, but I fear they are really going to push look how cute and plucky and adorable Lucy is.   I already feel my teeth ache from the sweetness and precociousness.

Also, a premature statement based on a few pics and a contrived first meeting, but I am predicting that Henry and Cinderella are not going to have the chemistry to pull of the epic story.  Again, no solid basis and premature to judge by some still shots, but I think they would have been better having Henry be single and child-free in the new story.  That way they could explore different options  and have him have  a few romances, and it would be a bit of a different formula than the couple heavy writing of the original version of the show.  Starting a plot with a pre-ordained couple can really limit future stories (since TV writers have problems writing for happy couples) , esp. if that couple does not really take off with the viewers.  

[Camera One]

Quote

they're playing on fans' fears deliberately to get people talking/freaking out. 

I think Adam thinks all the concern will mean everyone will tune in to Episode 2.  The main thing he was trying to put across on Twitter the last few days was that Jennifer is going to be in "A LOT" of the episode despite limited filming days, so that people will believe it's worth it to tune in.

Quote

but I fear they are really going to push look how cute and plucky and adorable Lucy is.   I already feel my teeth ache from the sweetness and precociousness.

I agree.  I'm sure the actress is really talented, but the writing and the character didn't evoke any emotion from me in the Season 6 finale.

As for Adult Henry, I couldn't tell the guy in the Enchanted Forest with Lucy was the same guy who opened the door at the end.

5 minutes ago, CCTC said:

I think they would have been better having Henry be single and child-free in the new story.  That way they could explore different options  and have him have  a few romances, and it would be a bit of a different formula than the couple heavy writing of the original version of the show.  Starting a plot with a pre-ordained couple can really limit future stories (since TV writers have problems writing for happy couples) , esp. if that couple does not really take off with the viewers.  

I know we were joking about "How I Met Lucy's Mother" a couple of months back, but that was the approach they should have taken.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Camera One

[MadyGirl1987]

14 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I know we were joking about "How I Met Lucy's Mother" a couple of months back, but that was the approach they should have taken.

In that case, it would end up with Henry not meeting the mother until near the end of the show, and them being awesome together, only to have her die and Henry get together with his true love, the on-again/off-again girlfriend who we will see never work together again and again through the show's run and was actually married to Henry's friend for a time. (Why yes, I am still bitter over that whole fiasco of an ending, thanks for asking)

Seriously though,  I do agree they should have had some  mystery over who Lily's mom is and how he is in love with Cinderella 2.0. Let the mystery of how Henry went from the high schooler in the diner with his family celebrating their happy beginnings to the man who answers the door in Seattle years later unfold over the season. Show us, don't tell us main parts of the story before the season even begins.

Edited August 5, 2017 by MadyGirl1987

[Free]

8 hours ago, Souris said:

I can always blame them. For anything. Including those annoying subscription cards that fall out of magazines.

No I was actually talking about the fans feeling that way because of the way they handled her exit.

[darkestboy]

I do hope the LGBT character is male.

Come to think of it aside from grown up Henry, Hook and Rumple (and guest starring Gideon), they have yet to reveal any prominent new male characters for Season 7.

Lady Tremaine will clearly be a rehash of Season 1 Regina/Evil Queen. Might work, might not. Cinderella then will be likely to be Snow 2.0 as well.

[Camera One]

Adam is on a roll on Twitter... in the last 45 minutes alone:

- What about handling her exit bothers you? We've only been honest

- We've talked about it every time we've been asked. The only secrecy is about the story. But that's the case with most of our stories

- You're making judgments based on no knowledge of the story we're telling. Happy to hear criticism or praise... after you see what we do

- I've said Emma is central to OUAT before

- I like surprises. I don't like to read the last page of a book first. That's just how I roll. If that makes me not a "good writer" so be it

- As I said in a PUBLIC STATEMENT about Emma in May: "She will always be a part of the show and its heart and soul." Was that unclear?

- As I said in May (which is when we were writing these episodes): "She will always be a part of the show and its heart and soul."

- Now can I "reassure" you about the storyline? Of course not. I want surprises. I want the emotion of Emma's episode to play unspoiled

- Will she live? Will she die? Will there be some other story turn? If I answer ANY questions, it dilutes the potential power of the story

[KingOfHearts]

Adam, me thinks thou doth protest too much.

[Camera One]

Adam says he's busy today writing.  It must be difficult to get into the head-space of writing after arguing with people on Twitter.  

[Souris]

4 hours ago, Free said:

No I was actually talking about the fans feeling that way because of the way they handled her exit.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were referring to A&E there!

Adam is totally playing on people's fears. He's perfectly fine saying that new wicked witch is in no way related to Zelena, which is not #nospoilers at all. Hypocritical much?

[Free]

33 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Adam, me thinks thou doth protest too much.

 

25 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Adam says he's busy today writing.  It must be difficult to get into the head-space of writing after arguing with people on Twitter.  

And he's been doing this for years, you would think he'd learn by now in S7, but no.

Just now, Souris said:

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were referring to A&E there!

Adam is totally playing on people's fears. He's perfectly fine saying that new wicked witch is in no way related to Zelena, which is not #nospoilers at all. Hypocritical much?

Oh it's fine.  Yeah, Adam is still spewing nonsense in the interviews and on twitter.

[Camera One]

5 minutes ago, Souris said:

Adam is totally playing on people's fears. He's perfectly fine saying that new wicked witch is in no way related to Zelena, which is not #nospoilers at all. Hypocritical much?

That whole thing was bizarre.  What did they expect people to think when they released the new recurring character's description as a witch who was as wicked as they come or whatever. It's almost like they wanted that response to occur.  I wouldn't be surprised if Zelena did return later this season.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

 I wouldn't be surprised if Zelena did return later this season.

Don't get my hopes up.

I would like to see her come back as a regular in the second half, though.

[Camera One]

ABC's TCA Press Tour is tomorrow.  More of the same or another "juicy" tidbit?  A&E is basically Hansel throwing breadcrumbs every couple of days, so we can all willingly enter the seemingly attractive Witch's house to be burned, LOL.

[Camera One]

Quote

Channing Dungey: “A lot of it is going to depend on how these new characters and this new story line resonates,” she told reporters at the Television Critics Association’s press tour on Sunday. “If it does, we have the opportunity to tell multiple years with these new characters"

Does she seriously think these new characters will be sustainable beyond a season or even half a season?  Do they think A&E actually have a plan once this new Curse breaks?  That's when they started floundering like Nemo on dry land last time.  What makes this time any different?  

[KingOfHearts]

37 minutes ago, Camera One said:

That's when they started floundering like Nemo on dry land last time. What makes this time any different?  

A&E: "Yes, but you see, this time Regina is a bartender."

Edited August 6, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Writing Wrongs]

New photos

New identities

They're gonna put Hook and Regina together, I just know it.

[Camera One]

From the IGN article:

Quote

Not-Regina, meanwhile, is a bar owner in Hyperion Heights who wears rock T-shirts instead of power pantsuits. She's no longer in charge and more rough around the edges, which will lead to some fun interactions with West's cursed version of Henry.

"You see these two characters interact in a way that you certainly have never seen," said West. "It's cool to see these characters interact in a completely new way." Added Kitsis, "It's very similar to Season 1 to Emma and Mary Margaret, [when Emma] didn't know it was her mom."

Somehow, I doubt they will be able to recapture the Emma-Mary Margaret dynamic.  There are so many differences with this scenario.  Emma and Mary Margaret were forcibly separated.  Mary Margaret never got to see Emma grow up and Emma grew up thinking she was unloved.  Henry chose to leave Storybrooke.  I'm sure they'll try to come up with a heartbreaking scenario to try to make it more "similar".

Quote

This new clean slate allows Once to not be "beholden to old mythology," which means new origin stories for characters like Cinderella. The showrunners liken Henry and Cinderella's "epic romance" to the Snow/Charming pairing in Season 1.

So they were "beholden", eh?

They're "likening" everything to stuff we loved from Season 1.  Not a good sign for a "new beginning".

Quote

Kitsis said, "That doesn't mean that I don't have a day when I don't miss writing Snow and Charming scenes."

Thanks for ending with a joke.  

This is from the EW article:

Quote

“We really want to differentiate between the two worlds now,” Horowitz said. “Seattle is going to look like the modern day and there’s not really going to be magic on that side, but there will be in the Enchanted Forest.” 

Well, at least they're fixing *one* problem... though I have doubts this will last for more than half a season.  There may also be magical objects up the wazoo in lieu.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Camera One

[Free]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

Does she seriously think these new characters will be sustainable beyond a season or even half a season?  Do they think A&E actually have a plan once this new Curse breaks?  That's when they started floundering like Nemo on dry land last time.  What makes this time any different?  

 

4 minutes ago, Camera One said:

From the IGN article:

Somehow, I doubt they will be able to recapture the Emma-Mary Margaret dynamic.  There are so many differences with this scenario.

So they were "beholden", eh?

They're "likening" everything to stuff we loved from Season 1.  Not a good sign for a "new beginning".

Thanks for ending with a joke.  

Agreed, this is just a poorly copied, rehash of S1 with different characters in Seattle.

[KingOfHearts]

Seeing Adult!Henry and Hook together just looks wrong to me. Henry looks so different, but Hook doesn't look a day older. It's just not working for me.

Edited August 6, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

3 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Seeing Adult!Henry and Hook together just looks wrong to me. Henry looks so different, but Hook doesn't look a day older.

They sell Oil of Baby Dragon Egg at the Storybrooke Drugstore.

They don't want to make Hook less attractive.  That's a really important draw to the show.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Camera One

[CCTC]

11 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Kitsis said, "That doesn't mean that I don't have a day when I don't miss writing Snow and Charming scenes."

Being that they show Adult Henry basically wearing wearing the Charming costume from season 1, and you pics of him having a spirited confrontational first  meeting with  Cinderella in the woods, they are simply reusing some of the old Snow and Charming scenes.  

This is a little nitpicky, but that pic of them in Enchanted Forest attire seems off.  They seem like modern people playing dress-up (which makes sense in a way for Henry, since he would not be native).  Dallas and Goodwin looked like they could have been from a fairy tale, which is partially what made their story "epic".  Plus, as great as Dania looks, she is close to 40, and having her in a dress that a 20 year old princess would wear doesn't help.  It is like when they tried to make Regina look like an ingenue for Daniel and had her hair in braids.  It just made her look older.  Again. very petty and superficial statements.  An attractive woman for sure, but Henry kind of looks like a kid next to her, and I am not sure how that is going to play into the epic nature of their love

[Camera One]

22 minutes ago, Writing Wrongs said:

New photos

It's like they gave Henry Josh's old costume except it doesn't fit.

[tennisgurl]

For all the talk about a "fresh start" and a "total reboot", this season just sounds like a crappie version of season one. Oh joy. 

[legaleagle53]

I agree.  I'm trying to keep an open mind -- partly because morbid curiosity makes me want to see exactly how they explain the setup in the first few episodes -- but those two idiots (no, Regina, I'm not talking about Snow and David!) aren't making it any easier for me.

[ParadoxLost]

28 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Somehow, I doubt they will be able to recapture the Emma-Mary Margaret dynamic.  There are so many differences with this scenario.

Given this show's track record of having every Regina relationship not being received the way they intended, I'm going to laugh my ass off when memory loss + aging weirdness +S1 redux results in inappropriate Regina/Henry sexual chemistry.

Edited August 6, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[legaleagle53]

3 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

Given this show's track record of having every Regina relationship not being received the way they intended, I'm going to laugh my ass off when memory loss + aging weirdness +S1 redux results in inappropriate Regina/Henry sexual chemistry.

That sound you hear is a collective "Eww!" from the viewers, followed by copious retching.