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Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!


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I do love that picture JMo posted. It's good to see all those women are going to be together somehow. And yes, I'm also hoping it's a rumble. Is it too much to ask to have Regina on the Emma/Elsa side of that fight? At least that's what I'm hoping after all the progress Regina made last season. Siding with the Snow Queen instead would just feel like a slide back for her.

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I feel like A&E have been repeating that Emma magic line since S2 and all we get is a scene showing her doing the spirit fingers and then they act like it's a bona fide story. But maybe with Elsa and Frozen tie-in they'll actually do something with it. I have my doubts.

 

My theory is that the Snow Queen was Elsa's mentor and if that's the case I hope Elsa becomes Emma's mentor. We need a new magic line separate from Rumple. Although knowing this show Rumple probably taught the Snow Queen.

 

I'm not gonna lie but I'd be happy as a peach if all I got out of the Elsa/Emma "friendship" was a drunken karaoke night in a dive bar, with them singing "Let It Go" or any Disney song for that matter.  Hakuna Matata anyone? It's not going to happen though is it?

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It seems we are going to learn more about Robin Hood this season, or at least that says Kalinda Vazquez in her twitter. God, the season gets worse and worse with every spoiler.

 

About Elsa and Emma, I would be more interested if Elsa was here to stay, or if, at least, this half season covered more than just a few days, so it's actually a meaningful friendship.

But really, they would have a conversation about their powers and how love is the way to control them, and nothing more.

Edited by RadioGirl27
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I'm thrilled Emma will have somebody to talk to about magic who isn't Regina or Rumple, and somebody who also spent time not wanting her magic, to boot. Yes, it may be for only half a season, but I think/hope it will be a very good thing for Emma.

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So how powerful is the Snow Queen exactly if we're to assume that there's a three vs one showdown?

Does it matter? I think we all know that Regina is going to defeat the Snow Queen on her own using the magnificent power of her pure light heart/soul/pancreas/left nostril, or whatever freaking thing makes Woegina the most wonderful homicidal sociopath that ever did special.

 

My question is how much further will the writers take the Woegina worship. I wonder if they'll stop when she reaches god like status? 

Edited by FabulousTater
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So how powerful is the Snow Queen exactly if we're to assume that there's a three vs one showdown?

Probably about as powerful as Zelena was when there was a five vs one showdown (okay, two if you count lapdog Rumple), which means she'll be easily defeated by Regina.

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So how powerful is the Snow Queen exactly if we're to assume that there's a three vs one showdown?

 

Maybe it starts off as Elsa vs. Snow Queen and Emma and Regina show up to stop them from destroying the town. Or Elsa/Emma vs. Snow Queen and Regina show up later thinking Elsa's still the bad guy, and Emma/Elsa turn their attention to Regina not hurting Elsa (and I'm sure Regina would love to get a couple freebie shots in at Emma), meanwhile the Snow Queen sneaks away to fight another day. 

 

Or maybe they're all just having a chat under the stars together, who knows.

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It seems we are going to learn more about Robin Hood this season, or at least that says Kalinda Vazquez in her twitter. God, the season gets worse and worse with every spoiler.

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I dislike the Robin character because, well, he HAS no character, but I'd welcome them giving him some. If he's going to be around, I certainly don't see how giving him some depth could be any worse, anyway.

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I dislike the Robin character because, well, he HAS no character, but I'd welcome them giving him some. If he's going to be around, I certainly don't see how giving him some depth could be any worse, anyway.

If they give him a good story, yes. But they will find a way to make it all about Regina and their "epic" love, so then no thanks.

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If he's going to be around, I certainly don't see how giving him some depth could be any worse, anyway.

-The evil king who forced Robin to create the Merry Men was Leopold.

-He was spelled into loving Marian after just almost-meeting Regina.

-He's Ava's younger brother who she forced into hiding from their parents after framing him for something she did.  The Lion tattoo represents their family crest.

-Marian was secretly cheating on him with a Merry Man or so.

-Marian and Snow secretly conspired to get Robin Hood declared an outlaw because they found out he was Regina's soulmate.

 

Just to name a few horrifying possibilities.  It's possible they'll just give him some background, but considering what they did with some of the others, and his relationship with Regina?  I'm afraid saying "How bad can it be?"  is like the TV jinx of "That was a close call!"

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If they give him a good story, yes. But they will find a way to make it all about Regina and their "epic" love, so then no thanks.

And what's wrong with some of that? Robin is an important character in Regina's storyline, just like Belle is in Rumple's.

 

-The evil king who forced Robin to create the Merry Men was Leopold.

-He was spelled into loving Marian after just almost-meeting Regina.

-He's Ava's younger brother who she forced into hiding from their parents after framing him for something she did.  The Lion tattoo represents their family crest.

-Marian was secretly cheating on him with a Merry Man or so.

-Marian and Snow secretly conspired to get Robin Hood declared an outlaw because they found out he was Regina's soulmate.

Just to name a few horrifying possibilities.  It's possible they'll just give him some background, but considering what they did with some of the others, and his relationship with Regina?  I'm afraid saying "How bad can it be?"  is like the TV jinx of "That was a close call!"

 

I kind of think he went through something that got him the Lion Tattoo that is tied to Regina or about her. This is what they defined was the sign that he was her soulmate. So that tattoo I get the feeling has something to do with Regina.

Edited by Hookian
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-The evil king who forced Robin to create the Merry Men was Leopold.

-He was spelled into loving Marian after just almost-meeting Regina.

-He's Ava's younger brother who she forced into hiding from their parents after framing him for something she did.  The Lion tattoo represents their family crest.

-Marian was secretly cheating on him with a Merry Man or so.

-Marian and Snow secretly conspired to get Robin Hood declared an outlaw because they found out he was Regina's soulmate.

 

Just to name a few horrifying possibilities.  It's possible they'll just give him some background, but considering what they did with some of the others, and his relationship with Regina?  I'm afraid saying "How bad can it be?"  is like the TV jinx of "That was a close call!"

I kind of think he went through something that got him the Lion Tattoo that is tied to Regina or about her. This is what they defined was the sign that he was her soulmate. So that tattoo I get the feeling has something to do with Regina.

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The thing is, I actually think Belle is a great example of a character whose fairybacks have done the character absolutely no favors. She was great in Skin Deep, but her centrics since then have made her look worse and worse. The idea of The Outsider wasn't bad but they botched the execution so that she ended up looking pretty dumb; the Lacey episode with original Robin Hood utterly destroyed Rumbelle in the past and really did make Belle look like she's suffering from Stockholm Syndrome; and Quiet Minds again made her look, if not pretty dumb, hopelessly naive and gullible (though not nearly as dumb as Neal, for sure).

So I second the thought that Robin's fairybacks, while not a bad idea in theory if they turn him into more than a cardboard cutout, are more likely than not to NOT be good (for the character or the audience).

Edited by stealinghome
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Elsa with the urn somewhere I assume is not Storybrooke. So did she get stuck in there after letting someone out?

 

Let me guess - the Snow Queen is an evil that finally got captured into the urn, Elsa finds it, releases the Snow Queen, gets herself trapped in there, and Rumple picks up the urn thinking the Snow Queen was in it. Hence, that is why the urn was in the unpredictable vault. That's just what I grab from that picture.

 

It's going to be really morbid if Rumple stuck her in an urn with her parents' ashes!

Or her mom is the Snow Queen? I don't know. Elsa looks like she's not supposed to be there. If her parents died in a shipwreck (their ship got totally swallowed up), I doubt they'd be able to get ashes.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Belle's mother - Collette - had been cast. Looks like it's a pretty small flashback role that may be revisited later in the season.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/09/04/once-upon-a-time-frances-oconnor-belles-mom/

Huh, so they cast an Australian in the end anyway. I assume that means the whole "European accent" thing wasn't that important after all (though Frances O'Conner has done a lot of British stuff, I guess). 

 

The grave rocks from the promo look a lot smoother than the one the urn is in... unless it's the side we can't see.

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I like Francis O'Conner so maybe Belle's story will finally interest me. Rumbelle is just not my thing at all. I liked the first episode but now I cringe or fast forward through any romantic scene.

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Just to toss it out there: When googling Colette, I got the author of Gigi. Gigi is a novella about a girl being groomed as a courtesan until she meets and marries a man named Gaston.

I also found that Colette is the name of the main female character in Disney's Ratatouille and the name of a minor character in A Series of Unfortunate Events.

I can't fathom A&E going the Ratatouille route, so the Tumblr speculation about her name being a clue to her identity might be bunk. The Gaston bit seems to just be coincidence.

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I also found that Colette is the name of the main female character in Disney's Ratatouille and the name of a minor character in A Series of Unfortunate Events.

 

Colette is also the name of one of the birds in the Tiki Room - on the bird-mobile. Colette is the first one introduced. LOL. Maybe she'll  be the window into some Polynesian Fairy Tales.

 

When googling Colette, I got the author of Gigi. Gigi is a novella about a girl being groomed as a courtesan until she meets and marries a man named Gaston.

 

There is a famous musical based on that book. That's where the song "Thank Heavens for Little Girls" is from. Also, "The Night they Invented Champagne" and "I Remember it Well" (where the older characters remember their first date differently).

 

IIRC Gigi/Colette and Gaston do fall in love with each other. Still, that's kind of a squicky theme for Once to mine.

Edited by kili
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Here you go, Hookian!

 

Outlaw Queen is not dead, apparently. This is from Kalinda Vazquez. It's worth noting Kalinda mentioned in another post that she was the writer of the farmhouse whisky scene. 

https://twitter.com/KalindaVazquez/status/507691235537321984

 

@kirstiejk2191 I think it's safe to say if you want to see more #OutlawQueen you should tune in to #OUATseason4!

 

She alludes to more Robin Hood backstory when asked here:

https://twitter.com/KalindaVazquez/status/507373136266792960

@KalindaVazquez It would be nice to know how the Merry Men came to be, his relationship with Marian, and why a tattoo of a lion.

 

@OutlawQueenSet stay tuned, I think you'll get some of the answers you're looking for in #ouatseason4

Edited by KingOfHearts
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So since we may find out why he chose a tattoo of a lion, do you think this somehow is gonna be about Regina? I mean the tattoo is the symbol that told us he's her soulmate. So it has to do with her or something.

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So since we may find out why he chose a tattoo of a lion, do you think this somehow is gonna be about Regina? I mean the tattoo is the symbol that told us he's her soulmate. So it has to do with her or something.

 

Replying in the new Robin Hood thread.

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Some people here were hoping but they should know better by now. Marian is just an obstacle, a detour. I mean even they said that.

Hoping is not believing. We all knew this dreck is here to stay. Now, let's hope another WOC isn't made a villain and then murdered for this love triangle, like Tamara! I think that's the best case scenario (they don't totally destroy Marian at the altar of Woegina). 

The character of Robin Hood has been destroyed long ago, sadly. A romantic hero that gets with his wife and son's mother's murderer, that's the stuff dreams are made of!

Edited by Serena
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I'll actually be very disappointed if the tattoo is related to Regina.  One of the issues with Robin is that they've given him very little that is independent of Regina.  We don't see him do anything with other characters, or care about things that don't affect Regina.  

 

The obvious connection is King Richard (the Lionhearted).  And of course we have Zelena's father/the gardner from last year, who had the crest on his handkerchief and we were all convinced for a hot second was going to be Prince John.  And since I'm still waiting for a secret/hidden prince or princess plot on this show, I'm wondering if he'll get something similar to the Hook plot we talked about last season...he was a well placed noble, prince, etc. in Richard's kingdom who had to go into hiding from Prince John.  It's a bit of a retread of the Robin Hood series they did on the BBC a few years back, but if he ends up being some rogue military guy, it is a 100% retread of Hook's plot. 

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Oh god the BBC show was so awful. I don't know how I've managed to watch 2 seasons of it. It was just painful.

It did have Richard Armitage, though, and their Marian was actually a pretty good character, but otherwise... Ugh.

 

I'll actually be very disappointed if the tattoo is related to Regina.  One of the issues with Robin is that they've given him very little that is independent of Regina.  We don't see him do anything with other characters, or care about things that don't affect Regina.

 

They really should have set him up as a character better before playing the soulmates card. Why didn't they do a proper flashback? Hook got one with his first appearance. It's not like there aren't any episodes in 3B that couldn't be thrown out without any loss, *cough* like Zelena-centrics *cough*

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So since we may find out why he chose a tattoo of a lion, do you think this somehow is gonna be about Regina? I mean the tattoo is the symbol that told us he's her soulmate. So it has to do with her or something.

Stop me if non-canon. Too much fanfic? I thought Robin explained that his tattoo was the Locksley family crest? And A&E have said it's not a misdirect - he was the man in the pub.

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I thought Robin explained that his tattoo was the Locksley family crest?

If that's true, I totally tuned out that part of the episode.  I think the only in-show discussion we've had about the tattoo is Regina telling him what Tink said. 

 

If it is the Locksley family crest, we're one step closer to "secret royalty"  

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It's strange I find myself  curious about the Belle stuff more than the OQ stuff for now.

 

 Maybe it is because I feel that the triangle storyline is déjà vu and that I know the end.

I mean, we know it will be the soul mate together and the writers don't even hidden that Marian is just some obstacle to overcolme for the epic lovers.

 

 Rumbelle at this point is a little more mysterious for me.

Is Rumple 's mind is really at play ! (jekkill,misster Hide) like it been said some time ago.

 What's the story with Hook and Henry.

Will Belle have a centric!! and really become independent from Rumple!

 There something of a mystery there. Plus there the Frozen connection.

 

After Emma more central role ( captainswan, Frozen) my immediate interest are on them at my own surprise, not sure if it last after the first episode!

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Is this Kalinda person the new designated Woegina writer? And is this her personal endorsement? Cause......lol

 

 

she was the writer of the farmhouse whisky scene.

 

I don't really care except I hope this means Jane E. gets to move on to greener pastures. Maybe she's assigned Elsa temporarily. A&E would not want to eff up Disney's current cash cow.

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Maybe it is because I feel that the triangle storyline is déjà vu and that I know the end.

I mean, we know it will be the soul mate together and the writers don't even hidden that Marian is just some obstacle to overcolme for the epic lovers.

 

I think it will be a little problematic if the epic lovers in fact overcome the obstacles and have their happy ending too soon.  That would be too much happy coupledom for one show -- Snowing, Emma and Killian, and then Regina/Robin.  I leave out Rumbelle because that will be conflict-riven soon.  It will not be interesting to see Regina in true love-soulmate land, she has to have angst, anger and misery to fuel her.  I think her character would become flatter, weaker if she has Robin by her side or at home or wherever.  Something bad will happen even if Marian is removed from the equation.

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This may be very unpopular...but I remain unconvinced that Robin/Regina is going to end well.  Or at least end well anytime soon.  As ShadowFacts just said...we can't have all the leads happily paired off and the fact remains that Sean has not yet been upped to a regular.

 

I wish OutlawQueen fans all the best, but I am prepared for the worst.

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This may be very unpopular...but I remain unconvinced that Robin/Regina is going to end well.  Or at least end well anytime soon.  As ShadowFacts just said...we can't have all the leads happily paired off and the fact remains that Sean has not yet been upped to a regular.

 

I wish OutlawQueen fans all the best, but I am prepared for the worst.

They probably will kill Robin off, and then Regina will be sad and act out and cry and bemoan her lot in life.  That would be something new and different.

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I do think there will be antagonism between Hook and Will and I look forward to seeing it. Not all tension has to come from romantic rivalry.

I'd enjoy it if Hook grew jealous of Will's friendship with Charming. :)

 

And, because I binge-watched Once: Wonderland, I do want Will's true love to remain his true love.  Hire her for a visit or whatever, but I liked their chemistry and it sort of blows the 'true love' bit if he suddenly forgets all about her after all the heartache she caused him (and her dying to protect him and then her being resurrected, etc.)

 

I assume there will be Will in Robin Hood flashbacks.  Will Scarlet is naturally part of Robin and Marian's past.  (And aren't most Robin Hood legends either that he was a commoner, a returned Crusader/knight or a displaced Earl?  Generally, he isn't cast as royalty, is he? (Except as an Earl he would be an aristocrat, so perhaps distantly.  Having a 'family crest' would mean some form of aristocracy.)

 

As to Robin/Regina . . . I'm okay with it.  I understand the teeth-gnashing over "Woegina" but it's a bit like swimming against the tide.  The show has its take on the character of Regina and fighting against it is a bit like being caught in a rip tide and desperately trying to swim directly to the shore.  It's not going to change the tide and will only lead to the exhaustion of the swimmer.  So... I go with the tide and see where it goes.  I don't think it was well developed last season, too much by-passed and under-developed, but I can't get all that worked up raging against it. It'll either get better or it won't.  Saddling it with a host of expectations (one way or the other) does little but close the door to my own possible entertainment. I may find this seasons development a disappointment (again), but I'm not going to pre-decide that beforehand.

 

Same goes for Frozen.  I assume that the Frozen characters will work with the shows regular characters thematically.  The various sub-plots have a thematic point with the regulars.  Not every storyline has to deposit permanent characters (in fact some of the better uses have been short-lived).  So, again, I don't know the way that they'll interact thematically, so I cannot judge yet.  It could be interesting, it could suck.  I'm willing to sit tight and see where it goes.  (Personally, I enjoyed the Peter Pan plot last year far more than the Wicked one... but I realize mileage varies on that subject).

 

And I am a bit amused that the actress hired to play Belle's mother is younger than the actor playing Belle's love interest (i know, timey-wimey on this show and actually Rumps is far older than even that, so it's a bit dumb to become too overwrought about it, but still it causes a rueful eyeroll.)

Edited by shipperx
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Crimson Belle, you owe me a new monitor. Ha!

 

And, because I binge-watched Once: Wonderland, I do want Will's true love to remain his true love.  Hire her for a visit or whatever, but I liked their chemistry and it sort of blows the 'true love' bit if he suddenly forgets all about her after all the heartache she caused him (and her dying to protect him and then her being resurrected, etc.)

Will and Ana actually would tie onto the Once canvas relatively easily, if the show wanted to bring Ana on for a few guest spots. As one of Cinderella's evil stepsisters, and another protege of Cora, the groundwork is definitely there. I agree that I really liked Will and Ana together (well, I watched like the last two episodes of Wonderland and liked them then, at least)--if we've got him long-term, I wouldn't at all mind seeing her around.

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 As ShadowFacts just said...we can't have all the leads happily paired off and the fact remains that Sean has not yet been upped to a regular.

 

I wish OutlawQueen fans all the best, but I am prepared for the worst.

Actually, breaking them would be the best for both characters. But the writers love Regina too much to leave her alone. About having all the leads happily paired, I'm pretty sure they are going to have Hook and Emma break up a couple of times before the show ends. And I don't think Rumbelle is in a very good place right now, even with the wedding.

 

I'd enjoy it if Hook grew jealous of Will's friendship with Charming. :)

I think that if Will is easily accepted by everyone in Storybrooke, while he is still looked with suspicion, that can contribute to that identity crisis we think Hook is going to have this season.

Edited by RadioGirl27
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Did ANYONE think it would be? We'll never be this lucky.

*slowly raises hand*

What disappoints me here is that OQ shippers are actually going to get more happy shipper content. I totally expect drama and tension with the Love Triangle of Doom, but I was also hoping that we wouldn't be getting David Nolan all over again. What I was expecting was a murder plot to kill Marian (which is pretty evident from the Sidney clip), or just tension between everyone. But right now, I can't watch any OQ scenes and look at it in a positive light.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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I'm 100% positive Hood and Woegina are endgame. You guys really can't think of more story for them? We still need the wedding with the big bad showing up with the worst curse ever, the truest wuv that ever wuved when they split a soul and spleen, and birthing of the super special octuplets. That should take them to the end of the series easily, however long that is.

 

Snow and Charming have moved into supporting roles but I'm sure they can separate them again or give them some kind of baby drama. I'm still waiting for a baby swap or baby-knapping. That's one of the soap staples they haven't gotten to yet that I'm sure it's coming down the pipe.

 

Emma and Hook aren't focused on all the time and their brand of drama is pretty benign compared to the others. Even in the middle of whatever coupley mini-drama they have, they still do their running around town thing.

 

Rumbelle? Well I'm sure they'll keep on the same track they've been on the last 2 seasons.

 

Having 4 established/official couples don't means happiness. They're pretty much established now.  I don't think they're real big fans of the "build-up" part of a love story. They like to have the couples get together ASAP and the drama comes after.

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I'll actually be very disappointed if the tattoo is related to Regina.  One of the issues with Robin is that they've given him very little that is independent of Regina.  We don't see him do anything with other characters, or care about things that don't affect Regina.  

 

 

The same can be said for Hook concerning Emma.  Stalking a woman until you wear her down does not make a romance.  Just..no.  I really liked Hook, but I wish he would have some other connection besides Emma's love interest.

 

Don't even get me started on Emma's plot twist behavior of late.  I miss the characters that I grew to enjoy in season one.

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I'm wondering if Will and Hook might have some sort of history. It all depends on how the timelines line up, but they did both once work for Cora, and Hook was in Wonderland. I don't recall if we knew how long -- if he showed up, Cora tortured him into making him take her back, and then they were gone or if he was there for a while before she was ready to go. We also don't know where Will was when Curse 1 hit other than that he ended up in Storybrooke, so he could have been back in the Enchanted Forest during the time Hook was bouncing back and forth between Regina and Cora. Their paths could possibly have crossed while Hook was Cora's errand boy immediately before the curse, and Cora probably wouldn't have been overly keen on Will having managed to get his heart back and out from under her thumb.

 

The Wonderland series seems to have taken place entirely (aside from flashbacks and the final "happily ever after" scenes) between the first episode of season one and the end of 3A (since toward the end of Wonderland, they went to Will's apartment in Storybrooke), and Will's flashbacks seem to have taken place in the year or so before the curse. Time seems to pass differently in Wonderland, but I seem to recall that Cinderella was already married or getting married when Ana and Will were scheming to get Maleficent's mirror so they could escape to Wonderland, and Snow and Charming were already married when Cinderella got married. We know Hook was back from Neverland and in the Enchanted Forest when Snow and Charming met. So there's potential for some existing bad blood.

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TVLine:

 

 

Is there anything you can tell us about Hook’s arc for this season of Once Upon a Time that we haven’t heard yet? Anything on his childhood/parents? –Ana
Series cocreator Adam Horowitz would only say that when it comes to the good (?) pirate, “There is more delving into his past to come” – though the burning question of whom he traded the Jolly Roger to, in the name of finding Emma, won’t be revealed until “somewhere down the road.”
Do you have any Once Upon a Time scoop that has nothing to do with any of the ‘ships? –Sara
Always! For Episode 7, the ABC series is casting the one-off role of a pompous prince who beneath his veneer of confidence-slash-arrogance is not much more than a coward ill-equipped to handle conflict.
Edited by Souris
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