Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Shanna Marie]

Am I imagining things, or did it look like the preview showed Belle losing the baby? Either she'd eaten some onion rings and was about to give birth, or she was having a miscarriage -- and the vibe I got from the way Rumple was talking in the episode and in the preview was that he was going to transfer the baby from Belle to the Evil Queen, so she'd get to have a baby and Belle would lose control of it.

I really hope I'm wrong because that would take their obliviousness about issues of consent and agency and ramp them up to about 45 (on a scale of 1 to 10), as well as being extremely insensitive to the very real-world issue of miscarriage.

Plus, it gives a contrived reason they can't kill the Evil Queen, unless maybe Regina would be the one becoming pregnant if she reabsorbed her evil side.

[YaddaYadda]

Belle is not miscarrying in the promo, her pregnancy got sped up and she's in labor probably giving birth at the convent.

[Shanna Marie]

3 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Belle is not miscarrying in the promo, her pregnancy got sped up and she's in labor probably giving birth at the convent.

Whew. So, onion rings. And Rumple will try to steal the baby. But I guess that means we don't have to deal with Belle wearing a fake pregnancy belly. That's a good side. Anything else is probably still going to be creepy.

[KingOfHearts]

I'm certain Zelena and EQ will both kick the bucket in 6x10. They haven't been in any spoilers since.

[PixiePaws1]

4 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I'm certain Zelena and EQ will both kick the bucket in 6x10. They haven't been in any spoilers since.

Every time I  see Gold and the EQ suck face (admittedly i see this through the fingers of my hand clamped over my eyes like i do when I am watching something gory!) I can't help but think of Robert getting the script and thinking 'OMG can my contract be up NOW???' And calling his agent to demand Rumple get killed off in the not-faux dead way ASAP. 

[Mathius]

30 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I'm certain Zelena and EQ will both kick the bucket in 6x10. They haven't been in any spoilers since.

Doubt it, especially not Zelena. She was barely seen in filming spoilers before 6x10 since her scenes are usually indoors.

[Free]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

Whew. So, onion rings. And Rumple will try to steal the baby. But I guess that means we don't have to deal with Belle wearing a fake pregnancy belly. That's a good side. Anything else is probably still going to be creepy.

So basically a rehash of 3b.

1 hour ago, PixiePaws1 said:

Every time I  see Gold and the EQ suck face (admittedly i see this through the fingers of my hand clamped over my eyes like i do when I am watching something gory!) I can't help but think of Robert getting the script and thinking 'OMG can my contract be up NOW???' And calling his agent to demand Rumple get killed off in the not-faux dead way ASAP. 

Even if it's supposed to be intentionally disgusting, the fact that they're dragging this mess out...

[orza]

1 hour ago, PixiePaws1 said:

Every time I  see Gold and the EQ suck face (admittedly i see this through the fingers of my hand clamped over my eyes like i do when I am watching something gory!) I can't help but think of Robert getting the script and thinking 'OMG can my contract be up NOW???' And calling his agent to demand Rumple get killed off in the not-faux dead way ASAP. 

It's pretty clear to me that the two actors are having a lot of fun with those scenes. They are going all out to make it campy and outrageous. I see the the scenes and the relationship as twisted fun. I don't have an issue with seeing two attractive people kissing and the actors obviously have fun at their job.

[AnotherCastle]

Quote

Even if it's supposed to be intentionally disgusting, the fact that they're dragging this mess out...

I don't even know what they are thinking with this. Considering the radio silence on the topic (Adam did not retweet the EQ and Zelena talking about GoldenQueen Sneak Peek, he does not answer any of the questions he's been getting about it for weeks, A&E did not adress it at all in their last interview with ET, the staff writers who live tweet their episodes do not mention and skip over the GoldenQueen scenes.) on Twitter you think they know and yet it goes on and on.

Edited November 14, 2016 by AnotherCastle

[PixiePaws1]

18 minutes ago, orza said:

It's pretty clear to me that the two actors are having a lot of fun with those scenes. They are going all out to make it campy and outrageous. I see the the scenes and the relationship as twisted fun. I don't have an issue with seeing two attractive people kissing and the actors obviously have fun at their job.

I was thinking more along the lines of the total degradation of quality in the storylines and scripting, the number of pretzel shaped retcons and the disservice to his character whom has lost nearly all his nuances. Robert is an excellent actor but he needs something to work with. What he has been getting...only challenge he gets acting-wise is to keep a straight face...

I also agree Robert and Lana are having fun in their scenes but they can do that while still lamenting how lame the show has become and the mangling of their characters. 

[Amerilla]

It took some sifting through the Rumbelle tags on Tumblr, which is right now primarily one long, primal rage-scream directed at A&E, but there were a couple of interesting theories embedded in there I thought I'd share:

1) That Spinner!Rumpel + Original-Recipe-Dark-One-Rumpel is finally being overwhelmed by the force of having all the past Dark Ones darkness in him 

2) That Rumpel used the Shears on himself to cut Spinner!Rumpel out of the equation - thus the haircut - to give him the best chance at control over the RumBaby 

I don't know either theory works exactly. I could see Rumpel using the Shears on himself, for example, but to cut away all of some of the Darkness - i.e., to win Belle's love and a chance at changing their destiny - only to have it backfire. Rumpel generally effs up his chances to do the right thing, so it would be his usual luck to try to cut away the Darkness only to end up slicing off the last bits of good rolling around in there. And it is the type of thing the show would do as a "surprise twist," because all the audience saw was Gold suddenly drop what he was doing, walk behind a curtain, and exit sans sad little wig.  

Still, I think it's clear we're supposed to be seeing something anomalous and escalating in Gold's current behavior. It was notable that Gold called Belle "Dearie" and referred to himself as "Rumpelstiltskin" in the third person twice in this past episode, that he was more harsh and controlling towards than we've ever seen post-Skin Deep, and there's no pretending pursuing GoldenQueen is normal behavior on his part. 

Oh, and there's a growing sense that not only will Belle's pregnancy be accelerated to end in the next episode (obvious in the promo), but that there's not going to be a RumBaby at all, that "Gideon" will be somehow fast-forwarded to adulthood. That does make some sense, given that we see Morpheus in SB in later episodes already fully grown. There was also no casting call for a baby that anyone remembers seeing. Although I suppose it's possible that TV babies don't get regular casting calls, that casting directors just pull from a pool of babies as needed. 

[Rumsy4]

4 minutes ago, Amerilla said:

That Rumpel used the Shears on himself to cut Spinner!Rumpel out of the equation - thus the haircut - to give him the best chance at control over the RumBaby

Except he didnt have the Shears when he got a haircut. I do thing being the Super Dark One is messing with him.

Quote

Oh, and there's a growing sense that not only will Belle's pregnancy be accelerated to end in the next episode (obvious in the promo), but that there's not going to be a RumBaby at all, that "Gideon" will be somehow fast-forwarded to adulthood. 

My theory is that the hooded figure is Gideon from the future. He killed his father and became the Dark One because Rumple tampered with his fate somehow. He time-travelled back to make sure things remained the same/wanted to change a pivotal moment in his past. That means there will be baby Gideon and adult Gideon running around at the same time. I think adult Gideon will die.

[Amerilla]

8 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

think adult Gideon will die.

I've also seen fan theories that Gideon is a new Savior, which might tie into how they wrap this tedious "Emma's Gonna Die of Savior-itis" storyline.

[PixiePaws1]

Bex Mader just posted this..supposed BTS 6x12..

https://mobile.twitter.com/OUATSpoilers/status/798260997907574784

[YaddaYadda]

46 minutes ago, Amerilla said:

I've also seen fan theories that Gideon is a new Savior, which might tie into how they wrap this tedious "Emma's Gonna Die of Savior-itis" storyline.

The problem is that they haven't even done anything with the Savior Mythology. She's gonna die, and everyone including Emma is just there standing around, not doing anything. Research? Nope! Let's just take what every other bad guy has said at face value because those guys are paragons of virtue. 

As far as Gideon goes, I'm more inclined towards he's never a baby, don't pass Go, don't collect your $200. He does straight into adulthood and that's that. I also think that in the event that Robert Carlyle is done after this season and the show gets renewed that they might be looking for a replacement and someone to take up the Dark One mantle. And it keeps Belle somewhat relevant. 

[Mathius]

Yeah, Rumple had the magical ability to turn Neal back into a kid if he wanted, so he could turn a baby into an adult. 

Also, @Amerilla, I'm pretty sure theory 1 is obviously correct - when he's called "the darkest Dark One", his behavior has to reflect that.

It's funny how he lives up to that evil hype, while the split Evil Queen who was hyped as sooo much worse than the previous one is just a troll.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Mathius

[PixiePaws1]

The storyline with Gold asking the EQ to kill Zelena looks to be setting up either:

A) we get confirmation that she is physically  unable to kill for some bizarre plot reason...like she doesn't have the heart of a killer anymore because Regina crushed it

Or

B) she can't bring herself to do it and has this grand ephiphany that results in the EQ choosing to merge her two halves

However it comes about i think the EQ will be the one to choose to remerge...how different Regina will be once this happens is anyone's guess. 

[Rumsy4]

30 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I also think that in the event that Robert Carlyle is done after this season and the show gets renewed that they might be looking for a replacement and someone to take up the Dark One mantle. And it keeps Belle somewhat relevant. 

That's an interesting idea. This way, Belle might still get to reform the Beast.

As for the EQ/Zelena thing, I feel that the EQ may end up attempting to kill Zelena, and "Regina" will save her life.

[maryle]

I do believe R. C could be done after this season and that why they took Rumple this far this season. The endgame in the final could be

Rumble sacrifice himself for Belle and his son or definitely choose the evil path and must be defeating  a last time.

I will consider both options a good end.

But, if it is just same old same old.

If Rumbelle are back together and Rumple scary behavior withewashing by some gimmick. Rumble or rumbelle will have lost the last opportunity to have some significance and creativity.

The fact that the spoiler indicate that they film a lot together make me cringe. It will be absurd that after everything they just keep going like never happened and is a terrible message to send in the world 

[Free]

3 hours ago, AnotherCastle said:

I don't even know what they are thinking with this. Considering the radio silence on the topic (Adam did not retweet the EQ and Zelena talking about GoldenQueen Sneak Peek, he does not answer any of the questions he's been getting about it for weeks, A&E did not adress it at all in their last interview with ET, the staff writers who live tweet their episodes do not mention and skip over the GoldenQueen scenes.) on Twitter you think they know and yet it goes on and on.

It serves no purpose whatsoever and it doesn't help that both characters have been degraded to cartoon caricatures instead of actual threatening villains.  It was a master/student relationship where they used each other for their own means that suddenly turned into a 'romantic' one this season.

[Tiger]

Anything on Aladdin & Jasmine?

Its fucking unbelievable to me that two characters with strong strongly defined AND amazing personalities that even a fucking mid 90's Disney Channel cartoon was able to capture, have to been reduced to the fuckery we're seeing on our screens.

Karen David at least tried in her first appearance and centric, but she's being given jack shit to work it.  The writing and acting for this Aladdin is the epitome of FUBAR.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Tiger

[orza]

5 hours ago, PixiePaws1 said:

I was thinking more along the lines of the total degradation of quality in the storylines and scripting, the number of pretzel shaped retcons and the disservice to his character whom has lost nearly all his nuances. Robert is an excellent actor but he needs something to work with. What he has been getting...only challenge he gets acting-wise is to keep a straight face...

I also agree Robert and Lana are having fun in their scenes but they can do that while still lamenting how lame the show has become and the mangling of their characters. 

Maybe that is not an issue for them. For the actors, this is a job. They are not emotionally overinvested in it the way some fans are. Robert Carlyle is a great actor who has taken on a whole bunch of awful roles in really bad movies in the name of paying his bills and feeding his family. I doubt this phases him. He makes no bones about the fact that he is doing this for the money and for his family, not for the art.

[Rumsy4]

48 minutes ago, orza said:

He makes no bones about the fact that he is doing this for the money and for his family, not for the art.

I doubt Carlyle is alone in that regard (acting is a paying job like any other), but I also don't think he's that detached. 

Edited November 15, 2016 by Rumsy4

[KAOS Agent]

Is it possible that Regina wishes the Evil Queen away, then wishes for Robin back and so the Evil Queen is out of the picture until she needs to use her third wish to undo her previous wishes?

Are Snowing awake together in recent filming? It ought to make things easier for David to look for his father's murderer if Snow isn't awake. 

[CCTC]

2 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

Are Snowing awake together in recent filming? It ought to make things easier for David to look for his father's murderer if Snow isn't awake. 

In the pics posted from last week's filming, Ginny is missing, whereas all the other heroes seem to be there. 

[Rumsy4]

Just now, Rumsy4 said:

Rumbelle Script Tease.

At this point, do Adam and Eddy know that they are normalizing domestic violence, or is this Graham redux?

It seems to me like Rumple was threatening Belle the minute before, but she's still hoping that he'll change.  I am beyond disgusted.

[orza]

They are not normalizing it. Writing uncomfortable stories does not necessarily mean they are endorsing that. Rumple and Belle have always been written as a tragic story about a dysfunctional relationship between two people who are in love with the idea of each other but all wrong for each other in reality.

[Camera One]

Yeah, the script tease got me in here.  

First of all, how many times do we have to hear the same conversation?  Secondly, so glad the script had the note that it "isn't threatening" because who would have been able to tell otherwise.  Confessional?  More like the usual excuse-filled crap that Rumple spews every other week.  If he thinks this tease will get people interested, he's delusional.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Camera One

[orza]

I'm interested.

[Rumsy4]

11 minutes ago, Camera One said:

First of all, how many times do we have to hear the same conversation?  Secondly, so glad the script had the note that it "isn't threatening" because who would have been able to tell otherwise.  Confessional?  More like the usual excuse-filled crap that Rumple spews every other week.  If he thinks this tease will get people interested, he's delusional.

Exactly. This is the same old crap Rumple's been spewing over and over again. Adam really is delusional about Rumbelle.

[Souris]

Adam is delusional about a lot of things.

[Katherine]

2 hours ago, orza said:

They are not normalizing it. Writing uncomfortable stories does not necessarily mean they are endorsing that. Rumple and Belle have always been written as a tragic story about a dysfunctional relationship between two people who are in love with the idea of each other but all wrong for each other in reality.

For me the problem isn't that they're writing about a relationship that, IMO, goes beyond dysfunctional into downright abusive. The problem is that they continue to give Rumbelle fans hope, both in interviews and in script teases like this one, that maybe the couple will work things out. To me, that sends the message that love is enough to change someone's terrible (and arguably abusive) behaviour. I know it's just a show, but I still think this is a troubling message to send to fans. I understand that not everyone views the Rumbelle relationship as abusive, and that's totally fine. But, IMO, the fact that the writers feel the need to specify in the script that Rumple's behaviour isn't threatening speaks volumes. Again, the problem isn't that they're portraying an abusive relationship. That would be absolutely fine if they acknowledged it as such. The problem is that they're portraying an abusive relationship but at the same time still treating it as a viable romance. YMMV, of course.

All that being said, I actually don't believe that Rumple and Belle will get back together after this. I think even the writers realize Rumple has gone too far. Despite the fact that they still seem unable to resist giving Rumbellers hope for the relationship, I agree with those who have predicted that Rumple's story will end with him sacrificing himself for his child. And as someone who's a fan of Rumple and wishes his story with Bae hadn't ended so abruptly, I would actually be fine with that conclusion. 

Edited November 15, 2016 by Katherine

[Rumsy4]

5 hours ago, Katherine said:

Again, the problem isn't that they're portraying an abusive relationship. That would be absolutely fine if they acknowledged it as such. The problem is that they're portraying an abusive relationship but at the same time still treating it as a viable romance. YMMV, of course.

This is my issue with it as well. Especially considering how poorly the writers have handled sensitive issues like male rape, I have zero faith in the writers when it comes to spousal abuse and domestic violence. Milah still gets the short end of the stick--Rumple murdered her twice, and he's gotten away with it.

Belle and Rumple are standing together in spoiler pics in later episodes, and the newest script tease indicates that Belle is still willing to take him back. They already sent the message that having a bad father is better than having no father. And "family" trumps everything in this Show. That's why I'm not hopeful the Rumbelle storyline will be resolved in a sensitive manner.

[daxx]

Now if this isn't Rumple but actually Jafar and Rumple is trapped in the lamp I could understand Rumbelle getting back together. I couldn't understand anything else. Not saying he's not actually Rumple just that is the only way I could support it.

[mjgchick]

I'm so disgusted by anything that has to do with Rumple and thinks Belle should just end his life.

 

If their demon baby is the Dark One and Emma ends up killing him wont be the Dark One AGAIN? Not going through that mess again.

[YaddaYadda]

38 minutes ago, mjgchick said:

If their demon baby is the Dark One and Emma ends up killing him wont be the Dark One AGAIN? Not going through that mess again.

If their kid is another Dark One, the rules probably won't apply to him because he wouldn't be tethered to anything the way Rumple, Emma or Hook were. He wouldn't have his own dagger as far as we know, so he'd be a Dark One on the loose.

Of course, if the show had made a real effort and explored the Dark One mythology seriously, maybe we would have an idea. They didn't, so they'll make it up as they go.

[KingOfHearts]

"Ill-Boding Patterns" is a reference to a sword given to Beowulf. (The Hrunting.) The Beowulf story was briefly featured on OUATIW, but only with Grendel.

Edited November 15, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[maryle]

Actually, this is my biggest problem with the rumbelle storyline.

Yes,the writer know they are writing a love story going very bad and abusive, the actors know it. Well, at least E. De R. Because I know that she had talked about it a little bit. 

But, they will never going to be up front about it and very probably will use some gimmick at least minute to excuse Rumple of his abusive relationship. The rumbeller are already looking for all the way that could make rumble look like the greatest husband and father. 

And because A. and E. miss the courage to follow their best creative idea that exactly what they will doing. Rumbelle will remain the soap opera usual and fans will let to decide if Rumple was really abusive or a poor victim of the Dark one or the last curse they dream about.

But, I wonder what the message to young girls it is really sending.

[Rumsy4]

22 minutes ago, maryle said:

But, I wonder what the message to young girls it is really sending.

I keep reading posts about how Belle keeps stringing Rumple along all the time, and that she's a terrible person for keeping Rumple from his child. Belle has been part-enabler. There's no doubt about that. But only a moron would allow Rumple near this child.   

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

"Ill-Boding Patterns" is a reference to a sword given to Beowulf. (The Hrunting.) The Beowulf story was briefly featured on OUATIW, but only with Grendel.

Interesting. I skipped several episodes of OUATiW, so I didn't know that they used part of the Beowulf mythos in that Show. The title could be in reference to another legends sword a la Excalibur. Or a reference to fate. 

[maryle]

The title being about a sword could be a explanation why everyone us fighting with a sword since the beginning of the season.

I could make a case that probably link to Emma vision ( very possible) but like already said others also had fight with a sword. So I can be certain that about her specifically. 

[Camera One]

2 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

"Ill-Boding Patterns" is a reference to a sword given to Beowulf. (The Hrunting.) The Beowulf story was briefly featured on OUATIW, but only with Grendel.

I thought it was referring to "bold and audacious".

It will probably have as much significance as that mythical hammer this week.  

"It's the only blade that can cut your destiny away while allowing you to say Savior, Emma."

"Let's find it."

"Oh no, the villain has it."

"I forgot to tell you it's also the only blade that can kill a Savior."

"Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo."

Edited November 15, 2016 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

Just now, Rumsy4 said:

Press Release for Changelings.

Quote

Rumple collects Jack and Jill’s son as bait to lure a powerful being to him.

Funny, I always thought they were supposed to be siblings in the nursery rhyme... I guess this story invokes the baby-stealing aspect of Rumple.

Quote

she convinces Hook and Emma to help her steal squid ink that can immobilize him, and, as a result, Belle is left to make a sacrifice that will affect the lives of everyone in Storybrooke. 

The birth of Dark Damien... I wonder what her sacrifice will be. Allowing him to rapidly age?

Quote

Jasmine finds a genie-less lamp that she hopes to use to save Agrabah, and Aladdin finds a way to be her hero, 

Confusing...and cheesy. Aladdin was the one who found the Lamp this past episode. Why is it genie-less, and how can that help? 

[Serena]

52 minutes ago, Camera One said:

It will probably have as much significance as that mythical hammer this week.  

What was up with that hammer, anyway? Why did Henry need it to crush the heart? Is it ever coming back or was it a totally random object? Oh, who am I kidding, of course it was.

[Rumsy4]

Quote

Jamie Murray as Black Fairy

Oooh...

[scenicbyway]

Let's see, Emilie has been in current filming, so Belle doesn't die.  So, I'm guessing she gives her son to the Black Fairy?  No, probably not.  I'm guessing she sticks him in a wardrobe tree and he's off to the EF for 28 years till he comes to break the curse on Storybrooke!  Where have I heard that plot idea before?

Come ON show.  If Rumbelle's baby is the new Savior, I think I might have to stop watching.  Hook and Emma aren't even interacting at this point so what's the point of watching?

[PixiePaws1]

Someone upthread suggested that Emma &Co will think they have avoided Emma dying and then.....nope....skewered. 

I think one of the last images we get before the hiatus will be Killian sobbing over a (seemingly) dead or dying Emma...

An empty genie lamp...fitting punishment for Rumple to end up endlessly serving others an no deals in sight....shove the EQ in it and force her into plaid sweatpants for the rest of her days....or make Emma a genie to save her life?

They already went the 'get cut, you die' route with Excalibur....aren't they going to need another blade with similar consequences for Emma's healing magic not work on herself or can't she do that???

[YaddaYadda]

The Black Fairy seems to be in the flashbacks as the powerful being Rumple tries to bait with Jack and Jill's son. Maybe she went to the Land of Untold Stories after Blue banished her and she's now in Storybrooke.

[KingOfHearts]

3 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

The Black Fairy seems to be in the flashbacks as the powerful being Rumple tries to bait with Jack and Jill's son. Maybe she went to the Land of Untold Stories after Blue banished her and she's now in Storybrooke.

Maybe she's this arc's Gauntlet of sorts. Or, she's going to be a bigger player later in the season.

Or she's just a cameo so A&E can check "Finally address Black Fairy" off their bucket list.

Edited November 15, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[PixiePaws1]

That photo of Belle cowering in the lift with Rumple's shadow looming over the doorway is truly disturbing. 

I really like Belle's oufit..why couldn't they have put Snow into something pretty like that when she was preggers..!

Emma is looking shocked in one of those pics in Granny's  ...maybe that's where Belle's baby bump expands rapidly and her water breaks. 

At least CS are in two scenes...they might even TALK to each other!!!

[Rumsy4]

I was very disturbed too @PixiePaws1

Edited November 16, 2016 by Rumsy4