Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[sharky]

Don't know how to link on mobile but Sean Maguire is coming back for multiple episodes according to EW. But he's still dead. So flashbacks or he's a ghost haunting Regina now that she has a new roommate? Weird. But to be fair, Robin is going to be much better as a guest than a series regular. They just never found a real spot for him. 

[YaddaYadda]

They said multiple episodes. I don't know how I feel about this.

[KingOfHearts]

A&E must really regret how they killed him off. It sounds like fan/Regina pandering. I don't really care for this.

Edited September 27, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

I think the constant tweets from OQ fans definitely had an effect.

[Curio]

This is literally the first spoiler for Season 6 that made my jaw drop. I figured they might have snuck him in for a flashback in the finale, but it sounds like they want him for a multi-episode arc.

Quote

Though Robin Hood met a grim fate at the close of season 5, Maguire will appear in multiple episodes this season. However, the character is not coming back from the dead. The powers that be are keeping how he’s returning — whether it’s via flashback or some other means — under wraps.

“We’re thrilled to have Sean back for this story arc and are excited for the audience to see what we have planned, which in the wake of his character’s heartbreaking demise, is something we hope is unexpected and surprising,” executive producers Adam Horowitz and Edward Kitsis tell EW.

I'm holding out hope for the scenario where Regina is given the option to choose Robin at the tavern and alters the timeline, so we can finally have that Emma-grew-up-as-a-princess-in-the-Enchanted-Forest plot. They could play with that alternate universe for the entire back half of Season 6 if they wanted to. It would make sense to book Sean for multiple episodes if they do that.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Curio

[tri4335]

So the cynical part of me has to ask if Sean is coming back because of fandom or was this planned and the remarks on Twitter last year was to just drum up drama?

[Selina K]

I wish I could care about Robin and Regina's story, but honestly my first thought was, "I guess Colin will be happy to have his friend back."

[orza]

Apparently, the network underestimated Sean's fan base and the didn't like the backlash and bad publicity they got for that decision. It wouldn't be the first time a network reversed itself on its decision to fire an actor.

I suppose this was the decision that drove a lot of the reshooting of episode 1. The extensive references to Robin were setup for his reappearance. Robin will probably be Regina's spirit guide or appear to her in dreams or something to help her defeat the Evil Queen.

[Curio]

7 minutes ago, Selina K said:

my first thought was, "I guess Colin will be happy to have his friend back."

Heh, that was my first thought too.

Quote

I suppose this was the decision that drove a lot of the reshooting of episode 1. The extensive references to Robin were setup for his reappearance.

That could explain a lot, if Channing Dungey or someone at ABC told A&E to alter the story in that direction. But it doesn't explain why they reshot the awkward Hyde scene or the other clunky dialogue that didn't mention Robin's name. Most of the Robin references actually seemed to be the most organic part of the premiere.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Curio

[KingOfHearts]

It sounds like backtracking to me. When Adultery Queen was the controversy, A&E decided to make Marian be Zelena. Then when Robin's soul was obliterated, the premiere had to iterate that he went to a better place instead. Apparently that wasn't enough, since he's coming back now. My money is on that he'll be back for more than just "multiple episodes".

It potentially puts Hyde Queen in hot water, sadly.

[Artsda]

I'm happy he's returning, if only for a few episodes. 

[Serena]

I guess Sean backtracked over his "I'm never, ever coming back" stance. 

[YaddaYadda]

I think he'll just help end the Evil Queen arc and be on his way. 

Or maybe Regina will think she's going crazy because she sees him, and they lock her up and throw away the key.

This show is really bad at cutting its losses. I don't know what more Robin will bring to the table.

Edited September 27, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[orza]

Sean's disappointment at the time was no doubt genuine. He did say something about never say never and made an appearance at a con recently, so he is clearly still interested in staying connected to the show. And a job is a job. If he can come back and possibly get paid top of show he would be very foolish to turn that down. The recurring actors the studio likes also tend to get cast for other projects. That's a good reason to come back for a recurring role no matter how small.

[RedKeep]

From what I remember, Maguire told fans at cons over the summer that he'd only ever consider coming back if he's getting a real story that he gets to talk through with the writers in advance and it's not just empty promises that lead to him standing around in the background again so it makes sense in a way. I still don't think they should have killed him off and could have just dropped him to recurring again. They could and maybe even should do that with quite a few characters, actually. Make sure you really do have a story to tell with their characters when you bring them in again.

In this case of course the backlash must have helped too. Not only as far as ABC and the writers are concerned, but I could imagine the actor doing this at least partially to give his fans/OQ fans some closure too. And the way that article reads it really appears to be about that more than anything. Fixing that terrible, terrible ending they wrote for him last year.

[Selina K]

16 minutes ago, Serena said:

I guess Sean backtracked over his "I'm never, ever coming back" stance. 

That was my second thought.

[Writing Wrongs]

It's nice for OQ fans. I liked Robin ok.

[RadioGirl27]

I can care less about Robin, but I like Sean, so good for him. But, really, A&E seem desperate with this move. Once again they make a decision and then backtrack when they are criticise for it. 

[Curio]

There are a lot of interesting story opportunities that open up by bring back Sean, but I have a feeling TS;TW will go with the most cliche route. I fully expect Regina to have dreams of Robin where he cheerleads and gives her advice, proving that he's not obliterated or whatever. But I'd love to see them actually flesh out why Robin thought Marian's death was his fault, maybe show some flashbacks to Robin being interesting, or go with that It's a Wonderful Life scenario. (This season sets up perfectly for it because Jafar is a genie who grants wishes now.) 

[Rumsy4]

My first reaction was negative. Mainly becasue I keep getting irritated with how they keep backtracking on stuff. However, I am happy for the OQ fans. I still don't think Robin is coming back for good. He'll probably give his blessing to Regina asking her to life her life or move on or whatever.

By the way, the Henry/Regina script tease Adam posted, I think Henry is calling EQ!Regina "mom". So, it looks like he still thinks they're the same person. 

[Mari]

3 minutes ago, Curio said:

This season sets up perfectly for it . . . 

This would be the most likely sign that it's unlikely to work out that way.  It's not enough of a shocking twist, and their follow through skills are on par with their math skills.

[maryle]

Bof, for me but I guess it will give closure for his fans. 

But, if they brought him to live it will be annoying. I thought Regina is supposed to be the most unlucky one.  I mean Emma has a expiration date on her.

[Senna]

I was pretty surprised by the Robin spoiler, especially since Once Upon a Time's Facebook page posted it without so much as a spoiler warning (if I wasn't a follower of spoilers already, I might be a bit upset).  The backlash must've been serious enough that they really want to publicize that Robin will be back.  I always preferred the idea of Robin and Regina (potential) over the reality given in the show (cryptsex and about nothing else), and I don't really see TS;TW doing anything amazing with ghost Robin or whatever.  So I'm kinda glad he's staying "dead."  But hopefully those who are fans of Robin will have some closure?

Edited September 27, 2016 by Senna

[Curio]

I wonder if the decision to bring Robin back was in the works for a few weeks now, or if this was an ABC-driven last second decision after the disappointing premiere numbers. Not that Robin is a huge ratings draw, but there's something fishy about the change in A&E's tune between what was said about Robin at Comic-Con and this sudden news story that Robin's going to show up for multiple episodes. 

[YaddaYadda]

I don't know how many episodes of Timeless Sean is slated to be in, but they probably had to workout some kind of a schedule with him.

[RadioGirl27]

I don't think the ratings have anything to do with them bringing Robin back, there hasn't been enough time for it, but I think they have something to do with the announcement of his return.

I think A&E didn't expect the bad reaction they got with the way they killed him and they are trying to give him a better closure and appeade his fans. It's "Neal was a great father and a hero" all over again.

[Rumsy4]

I'm not all that surprised that Sean will be back in some form--I kinda expected it, provided Sean got over his pique (but who would throw away a chance for work?). What I am suprised about is the multi-episode return. Maybe he'll have scenes with both versions of Regina. It might be interesting if EQ!Regina doesn't think much of him. 

[KingOfHearts]

I really don't like Sean's acting on the show, to be frank. I never have. If I never saw him on it again, life would only be better. I don't care about his character. I would like to see Regina move on to something else.

Edited September 28, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Free]

7 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I think he'll just help end the Evil Queen arc and be on his way. 

Or maybe Regina will think she's going crazy because she sees him, and they lock her up and throw away the key.

This show is really bad at cutting its losses. I don't know what more Robin will bring to the table.

It's also really bad at handling multiple characters/storylines at once.  Idk, I guess more 'closure' even though that's what the last arc was supposed to do but then ended up repeating the same story beats: Emma is keeping secrets again, Regina is once again struggling with her evilness, too many cluttered characters and storylines, etc.

 

Quote

I think A&E didn't expect the bad reaction they got with the way they killed him and they are trying to give him a better closure and appeade his fans. It's "Neal was a great father and a hero" all over again.

And once again they're getting bogged down again.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Free

[Camera One]

I had to visit this thread to comment on the news... I was wondering why "Once Upon a Time" was trending... couldn't have been Emma getting the jitters.  

I just do not see the point of Robin Hood coming back.  They never took the effort to integrate him into the series in a natural way (he has almost zero connection to any of the other characters) and the ship has sailed on making his backstory at all interesting.  Having Robin Hood visit Regina in his dreams or guiding her in multiple episodes is not very interesting.  Considering how many of the relationships on the show are neglected and how several existing main characters already have little or nothing to do, I think this is a poor use of screentime (not that the screentime would have been better used anyway, but I digress...)

Edited September 28, 2016 by Camera One

[ParadoxLost]

7 hours ago, orza said:

Apparently, the network underestimated Sean's fan base and the didn't like the backlash and bad publicity they got for that decision. It wouldn't be the first time a network reversed itself on its decision to fire an actor.

I suppose this was the decision that drove a lot of the reshooting of episode 1. The extensive references to Robin were setup for his reappearance. Robin will probably be Regina's spirit guide or appear to her in dreams or something to help her defeat the Evil Queen.

But didn't we think that the Captain Swan scene in the beginning was one of the new one since they ditched the scene where they all saw the dirigible outside the diner.  

That plus Robin returning makes me lean toward someone telling A&E to back off on the misery.  So they threw Captain Swan a bone, probably under the belief that they had to give fans a reason to remember why we put up with unrelenting misery likely to come.  But since they plotted something too far out to change that requires Captain Swan misery, they needed a 'hopeful' counterbalance that they can add in without disturbing what is plotted. And that is Outlaw Queen because they can add chats with Regina that don't alter the plot too much.

I don't begrudge OQ fans Robin's return.  I don't think Outlaw Queen and Captain Swan can't be simultaneously happy.  I just expect that A&E are too dense to get feedback that everything is too miserable and rethink their plot.  They are more likely to add something that wasn't part of the original plan.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

 Considering how many of the relationships on the show are neglected and several existing main characters already have little or nothing to do, I think this is a poor use of screentime.

If I wasn't aware of Socha's unfair treatment, I would want Will Scarlet back over Robin any day of the week if it meant his story could continue. (Random thought after posting this: Once could have its own Land of Untold Stories. It's where all the guest and secondary characters go after their plot is dropped.)

Edited September 28, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

And that is Outlaw Queen because they can add chats with Regina that don't alter the plot too much.

Ahh, this is a great silver lining!  Thanks Robin in advance for keeping Regina away from Snow and Emma.  Please.

3 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

If I wasn't aware of Socha's unfair treatment, I would want Will Scarlet back over Robin any day of the week if it meant his story could continue. (Random thought after posting this: Once could have its own Land of Untold Stories. It's where all the guest and secondary characters go after their plot is dropped.)

Heck, giving Granny or Blue a multi-episode arc would be awesome in lieu of this.

[Curio]

2 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Once could have its own Land of Untold Stories. It's where all the guest and secondary characters go after their plot is dropped.

The Land of Untold stories plot should have been ditched in favor of this.

The thing that's weird about Robin coming back is that he was barely used at all when he was a regular. Why ignore your actor that you upgraded to regular, never use him, kick him off, and then bring him back for a few episodes? If A&E weren't bothered to even give Robin a single centric episode during the season he died, it makes me think this decision was beyond A&E's control. 

[Camera One]

I think we're already watching The Land Where Great Ideas Go To Die.

[Free]

2 minutes ago, Curio said:

The Land of Untold stories plot should have been ditched in favor of this.

The thing that's weird about Robin coming back is that he was barely used at all when he was a regular. Why ignore your actor that you upgraded to regular, never use him, kick him off, and then bring him back for a few episodes? If A&E weren't bothered to even give Robin a single centric episode during the season he died, it makes me think this decision was beyond A&E's control. 

It's a mess, it's like they're trying to one up last season's trainwreck of a narrative.

[Rumsy4]

7 minutes ago, Curio said:

The thing that's weird about Robin coming back is that he was barely used at all when he was a regular. Why ignore your actor that you upgraded to regular, never use him, kick him off, and then bring him back for a few episodes? If A&E weren't bothered to even give Robin a single centric episode during the season he died, it makes me think this decision was beyond A&E's control. 

I agree. I think the network forced their hand for whatever reason--maybe feedback from pretty much everywhere. Why couldn't they have forced A&E to write him a decent storyline when he was actually a regular on the Show?

Quote

If I wasn't aware of Socha's unfair treatment, I would want Will Scarlet back over Robin any day of the week if it meant his story could continue. 

The Cinderella episode would have been the perfect opportunity to bring him back and wrap up the Anastasia storyline.

[tri4335]

I could dig the Robin scenes if he would be able to drop some truth bombs on Regina and really move her development but I'm sure it will just be all you're the best of the best and I'm so sorry that you have the worst luck in the land! At least for Sean there will be planned scenes with an end date so he won't just be standing around....but with these writers it could be that he just floats around looking at Regina but doesn't interact!

[YaddaYadda]

Robin to the EQ: You're even bolder and more audacious now that Regina kicked you out of her body.

Because he's Robin, that's how he rolls. I wonder what the writers told him they were going to do because from his interviews, it sounded like Sean was basically done with the show. I guess the tweet wishing everyone a great first episode was done because he knew he was coming back.

[Free]

10 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Robin to the EQ: You're even bolder and more audacious now that Regina kicked you out of her body.

Because he's Robin, that's how he rolls. I wonder what the writers told him they were going to do because from his interviews, it sounded like Sean was basically done with the show. I guess the tweet wishing everyone a great first episode was done because he knew he was coming back.

It seems like the writers don't seem to know, so they're just throwing just about everything out there.

[KAOS Agent]

I'm not sure what exactly they think they're going to do with Robin now that they couldn't do while he was a regular. I hope he has an actual story this time. One where he has actual feelings and a point of view. The best part of his coming back is that it puts to rest all of those horrible rumors that were being spread about him. They wouldn't hire him back if any of that were even remotely true. Not that I believed them, but he was let go from the show, so those people were able to continue to say that they were right.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Speaking of Tree!Dopey, how is he? Did they address his status somewhere and I missed it? Maybe he was at Granny's at the end? And didn't one of the dwarfs tweet something about how he was leaving the show? So are there only five dwarfs available now?

That's supposed to be addressed in S6. Apparently we're getting an entire dwarves story. The actor who played Dopey was the one who said they were leaving, so it's six dwarves I believe.

Edited September 28, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Free]

2 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

I'm not sure what exactly they think they're going to do with Robin now that they couldn't do while he was a regular. I hope he has an actual story this time. One where he has actual feelings and a point of view. The best part of his coming back is that it puts to rest all of those horrible rumors that were being spread about him. They wouldn't hire him back if any of that were even remotely true. Not that I believed them, but he was let go from the show, so those people were able to continue to say that they were right.

To stand around and be a LI for Regina, because that's all that happened, that and pointless drama with Marian/Zelena that's been swept under the rug at this point.

[Camera One]

Sneak Peek of Robin Hood's return!

--

Regina wakes up inside a car. 

REGINA: Where am I.

ROBIN (sits up in the back seat): Regina.

REGINA: Robin!  I thought your soul was obliterated.  

ROBIN: This is the Land of Obliterated Souls.

REGINA: What can I do, Robin.  How can I save you?

NEAL: Hi.

REGINA: What the hell are you doing here?

NEAL: Oops, I think I pressed the wrong button in the elevator.  I was supposed to get off at "A Better Place aka Too Boring For An Underworld Appearance", but I think I accidentally hit, "Backtrack City".

Edited September 28, 2016 by Camera One

[TheGreenKnight]

UGH. So disappointed Robin will be back. Hopefully he stays dead and Regina eventually moves on with Hyde, who's hotter, better-acted, and just a superior character all around already. If it is because of executive meddling, then that's just one more stupid decision that can be laid at their feet this season. I wonder how many more there'll be.

Edited September 29, 2016 by TheGreenKnight
wrong who's

[mjgchick]

You know if they had introduced Emma's tremors last season I might be into it but of course they just decided on it probably 2 weeks before they started writing the pilot lbr.

[Joanh23]

I really don't know what to think about Robin coming back - as of now I don't like it as it feels like the writers are already regretting killing him off.  I think my biggest issue is that they are saying he'll be back for multiple episodes, that means he'll have a pretty big story line.

I don't know it will really depend on how this plays out but it will have to be a really good storyline for me to change my mind.  I guess all will be revealed in the next couple of months.

[Shanna Marie]

I'm inclined to think that Robin's return isn't network interference -- really, the character was barely there when he was on the show and he's not that high-profile an actor. If the network were going to interfere to boost sagging ratings, that hardly seems like the kind of move they'd make -- but rather yet another case of A&E not taking criticism well and scrambling to be liked. It's this year's version of last season's "no, we're not homophobic, in fact, we're working on a LGBT storyline!" fiasco that resulted in a couple of thrown-together one-off episodes after an offhanded defensive remark in an interview led to headlines about them working on a same-sex romance storyline and they were stuck having to follow through. They've taken a lot of flak about Robin's death and the way he was written out, along with the treatment of the actor, so now they're scrambling to show that everything's okay. Also, as much as they talk about how much Regina suffers, they're utterly allergic to making her actually suffer for much or for long, so it would be just like them to try to undo what they did and at least give Regina some kind of closure and assurance that he really did move on to a better place. It's like when they were making Regina suffer by having her soulmate leave town with his wife, and they couldn't sustain that for very long before they contrived a way to give him back to her. They may have started with the intent to really kill him for good, with the soul obliteration to explain why they couldn't just go get him back like they did Hook, but they buckle every time they try to do something truly bad to Regina. Maybe that's why they're always talking about what bad luck she has and how much she suffers. They come up with all kinds of grand plans to put her through the wringer, but then they can't bring themselves to really do it, so they're left with the impression of what they planned to do even if it didn't end up in the show.

My guess is that it will somehow be Robin who talks the Evil Queen version down because they're still soulmates, and that's how the Evil Queen will cooperate in the reintegration. So then they can redeem both versions of Regina. Expect to see a repeat of that dream Regina had about the Evil Queen threatening Robin, and then they'll try to make it sound like they've been planning this all along. Also, did they say that Robin is definitely staying dead forever, or just that he's definitely dead now? If they were just saying that Robin is really dead, then that's on a par with "Jon Snow is dead, for real" and "Hook is dead."

[Curio]

3 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Expect to see a repeat of that dream Regina had about the Evil Queen threatening Robin, and then they'll try to make it sound like they've been planning this all along.

Which would be pretty ironic, considering the scene you described was added in at the last second because ABC thought viewers would already forget Robin existed by that point in 4B.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Also, did they say that Robin is definitely staying dead forever, or just that he's definitely dead now? If they were just saying that Robin is really dead, then that's on a par with "Jon Snow is dead, for real" and "Hook is dead."

IIRC, they said something along the lines, "For now, let's just say dead is dead."