Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[KingOfHearts]

19 minutes ago, Curio said:

I would like to congratulate the majority of us who could see Regina reverting back to evil coming a mile away.

The foreshadowing was better in 5A, imo. Regina hasn't really done anything psycho in 5B.  However, there's been speculation for a long time that Robin would die and Regina would go dark because of it. The way Lana talks about it, there may not even be a Jekyll/Hyde potion involved. I do doubt Henry will succeed in destroying magic, since the Evil Queen wouldn't be herself without it.

So is Zelena going to be Regina's partner in crime, or will she be her rival?

Edited May 3, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

I'm trying to figure out how going to New York (and why is it always New York? They're in Maine. Why not Boston?) in the World Without Magic is supposed to destroy magic. But I guess that's Henry for you.

[Hookian]

Yo if they give us Regina vs Killian and Emma as the new Snowing I think that would be very interesting. A parallel to the pilot. I was expecting Rumple would be in Regina's place vs Emma and Killian. But I'll take Regina as Evil Queen. I like her the best as that.

[Sarcastica]

Henry and his dumb plan, a Regina and Emma road trip with arguing.

Let me rest my eyes now, for when I watch the episode they will be exhausted from rolling every 3 seconds. 

[scenicbyway]

3 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I'm trying to figure out how going to New York (and why is it always New York? They're in Maine. Why not Boston?) in the World Without Magic is supposed to destroy magic. But I guess that's Henry for you.

Can't he just write that no one has magic anymore? Or that Regina could never be evil again?

[Curio]

Just now, KingOfHearts said:

The foreshadowing was better in 5A, imo. Regina hasn't really done anything psycho in 5B. 

Just because 5B Regina has been more subdued doesn't mean her actions in 5A shouldn't go unnoticed. I do think there was some foreshadowing in 5B, but it was primarily whenever Regina was extremely hypocritical towards Zelena without any ounce of self-awareness.

[Hookian]

44 minutes ago, Mathius said:

I think that's exactly it.  She's giving into evil, Henry runs away as a result, the whole finale happens, in the end Regina's good side whens out...and then that confrontation with Hyde happens, the dosage is forced on her, and thus she becomes the Evil Queen anyway.

It's exactly the kind of shocking!twist! A&E would write, like when Emma was being built up to go dark throughout 4B, but didn't in the end, only to go dark anyway due to the Darkness getting loose. 

Well I don't think she takes it against her will. She's probably curious about it and she's grieving and then boom The Evil Queen is born again.

[Mathius]

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The way Lana talks about it, there may not even be a Jekyll/Hyde potion involved. 

The problem is that Henry running away is said to be because of the possibility that she will revert to evil, but Lana Parilla's statements and that picture indicate it will happen, and I can't see it happening just voluntarily after the whole NYC adventure.  Given that we see Hyde confronting Regina and Henry in a spoiler shot, I think he's partially responsible, and that picture of Regina as the Evil Queen is from the result of that.  If Regina was going full-on evil before the NYC trip, there'd be almost no way we wouldn't have heard of it from filming spoilers.  Whereas a secretly filmed final scene with Lana in costume makes much more sense, leaving her evil antics in town for S6.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Mathius

[Curio]

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Being a self-righteous do-gooder can be so dreadfully dreary, darling!

 And this type of attitude is why the writers killed off Robin and hate writing for the Charmings.

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Hmmm…could OUAT be heading into a Season 6 where there are absolutely no spells and everyone has to behave like mere mortals? Radical!

Ha! Oh poor, naive, misguided journalist. These writers don't have the guts to get rid of magic for more than three episodes, tops. I'd actually love it if Henry's plan to get rid of magic impacted the majority of Season 6, but I doubt it'll happen. I've been wanting to see this show tackle the magic vs. no magic debate for a while, and even though they totally butchered that plot during Season 2 and the Home Office stuff, there's so much more to explore there. (Can someone please create some magical laws?!) But I'm guessing this will just be a one-off finale idea that has nothing to do with the rest of the overall narrative.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Curio

[InsertWordHere]

1 hour ago, Souris said:

Dare we hope Emma will give it right back to her for a change?

If she didn't get to do so when she was at her worst (worst for Emma) as the Dark One, even going so far as to tell Regina she was right about using the dagger, I doubt she'll get to now.

57 minutes ago, Curio said:

 

I would like to congratulate the majority of us who could see Regina reverting back to evil coming a mile away.

The Evil Queen hat in the promo sealed it for me!

[Rumsy4]

They took a bunch of plot points from S2-5A, and put it in the finale. 

S2--Henry wants to destroy magic. 

       Regina is tired of being "good" and reverts to EQ-mode.

S3--People inadvertently bring someone shady back from a different realm, setting off the arc for the following season.

       Hook and Emma begin new phase in their relationship in front of Granny's.

       Emma "ruins" Regina's life. 

S4--Regina berates Emma for above.

       Regina and Emma go on road trip to bring someone to Storybrooke.

       AU written by an author.

S5A--Henry/Violet young love.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Souris]

21 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

If she didn't get to do so when she was at her worst (worst for Emma) as the Dark One, even going so far as to tell Regina she was right about using the dagger, I doubt she'll get to now.

Of course not!

I think Emma will be put under a sleeping curse by the EQ at some point in S6. She’s the only one of her family not to have the honor yet. “I promise I’ll sleep for weeks after we defeat Hades.”

[Hookian]

9 minutes ago, Souris said:

Of course not!

I think Emma will be put under a sleeping curse by the EQ at some point in S6. She’s the only one of her family not to have the honor yet. “I promise I’ll sleep for weeks after we defeat Hades.”

CS TLK plus possible parallel to iconic Snowing moment. I'm in.

Want to make it more interesting have Regina interrupt the CS wedding much like she did Snowing. It could be in like some FF in the finale and then 6A is how we get to that point. That sounds pretty awesome.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Hookian

[Curio]

I found this comment while luring in the OUAT Reddit. It's not an official legit source, and it could be entirely made up by the poster, but I figured I'd post it here anyways:

Quote

A friend of mine was an extra on set as they were filming the finale and this article helps clarify a few things she mentioned about what they were filming. She said that Henry was asking everyone throw coins into a fountain and make wishes in order to "save magic". I was a little confused when she first mentioned this, because, coming from the Underworld plot, I wasn't sure why magic was at risk. Now it seems like Henry will be trying to right something that he might have started.

[KingOfHearts]

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They took a bunch of plot points from S2-5A, and put it in the finale. 

So the rest of 5B represents S1 then?

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I think Emma will be put under a sleeping curse by the EQ at some point in S6. She’s the only one of her family not to have the honor yet. “I promise I’ll sleep for weeks after we defeat Hades.”

That would be kind of neat. S6 sounds like original recipe with a twist - a combination of the development from S2-S5, but also a revisiting of the S1 premise. Knowing the Evil Queen, her plan won't be to simply kill her enemies. She'll have some convoluted scheme that involves destroying their happiness. I know there's been some mixed feelings in the past about reverting Regina, but depending on they do it, it could be interesting.

Even with all these spoilers, I still can't connect 5B to what's going on in the finale. There's just so little setup going in. I realize the two-part finales have always been detached movies, but the ones in the past at least had some relevance. The S3 finale was brought on by Zelena's time travel spell, and S4's was the Author giving villains happy endings, which was laid out in the arc prior. Destroying magic, going to New York, visiting an insane asylum with Jeckyll/Hyde and Davy Crockett, and Regina going Evil Queen all seem so... random. (Or shall I put it, "bonkers")

Maybe magic wished it was never born and this will be an It's a Wonderful Life special. 

Edited May 3, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[PixiePaws1]

17 minutes ago, Curio said:

I found this comment while luring in the OUAT Reddit. It's not an official legit source, and it could be entirely made up by the poster, but I figured I'd post it here anyways:

There was that little 'tab' in the editong program pic tweeted by Mark Isham that reads 'Magic gone wrong'

[Souris]

Of course, if Emma does go under a sleeping curse, there will have to be some sort of separation or secreting of her away, since both Henry and Hook would be able to TLK her awake. I would hope it wouldn't be too long, since I don't want Emma to develop Belle's persistent off-canvas narcolepsy. Though I suppose if JMo needs a bit of time off or reduced hours for her Sun Dogs movie, that might fit well.

[retrograde]

"Magic gone haywire" could be a decent premise for a half season, but "No magic at all" would get boring for that many episodes, I think.

Them hiding magic/Storybrooke from the rest of the world is fertile ground, but I feel like they abandoned that direction throwing the baby out with the bathwater with Tamara and Greg, and will now just stick to "Surprise! *Disney franchise* has come to town!" until the series ends.

[PixiePaws1]

OmG! That script tease better not be Emma saying she was wrong to try and bring Killian back. Talk about handing the rabid anti -Hook factions more ammo to level at poor Emma. Geez....she had the right to try and get both their happy endings back and stop his torture at Hades' hands. She might have still lost him but she rescued him from excruciating physical pain ..

[retrograde]

25 minutes ago, PixiePaws1 said:

OmG! That script tease better not be Emma saying she was wrong to try and bring Killian back. 

It could be, but it doesn't make much sense -- he's "dead" either way, at least by going down there she got more time. I think that by "a lot of mistakes" she must mean other things go bad.

Edited May 3, 2016 by retrograde

[Serena]

I'm pretty sure she's talking about going to the UW. The writers love Emma flagellating herself more than they love remembering their plot points for a few episodes ago (yes, she failed, but at least she stopped the TORTURE!)

[retrograde]

I agree it's the underworld, I just mean if, say, Robin dies due to some related circumstance, she could be talking about multiple things going wrong rather than just the Hook thing. One can hope, anyway.

[RadioGirl27]

2 hours ago, PixiePaws1 said:

OmG! That script tease better not be Emma saying she was wrong to try and bring Killian back. Talk about handing the rabid anti -Hook factions more ammo to level at poor Emma. 

That is exactly what she is saying and that is why she is going to let everybody, especially Regina, shame her for everything that happens in the next three episodes.

[HoodlumSheep]

That article is crazy spoilery, although it confirms what everyone has been theorizing for months, so it's not very shocking.

with that, I've lost all interest in the finale, but I'll still end up watching it at some point. 

That article does make it sound like Regina doesn't need any jekyll/hyde potion help with going evil again.

i can't believe they're retreading 2b with Henry's anti-magic crusade. And Rumple attempting to stop and/or harm Henry. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

9 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I'm trying to figure out how going to New York (and why is it always New York? They're in Maine. Why not Boston?) in the World Without Magic is supposed to destroy magic. But I guess that's Henry for you.

Maybe there's some magical anti-magic talisman still hanging around Neal's old apartment?

[Mari]

10 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I'm trying to figure out how going to New York (and why is it always New York? They're in Maine. Why not Boston?) in the World Without Magic is supposed to destroy magic. But I guess that's Henry for you.

This is one time when NYC actually makes teenager sense.   Henry's lived there, knows people there, and is comfortable there.  Plus, there's the apartments that somehow never get new owners/renters/occupants for them to crash in.

[3dog]

Seriously, who's making payments on that thing?

[Curio]

Does this mean we'll actually meet Avery? (Cue the writers and the audience saying, "Who the hell is Avery?")

[Mari]

No.  We most likely will spend all the time watching Regina and Emma being frenemies (yuck) and Henry not remembering he actually knows people he could call.  It's TS, TW.  

[scenicbyway]

3 hours ago, RadioGirl27 said:

That is exactly what she is saying and that is why she is going to let everybody, especially Regina, shame her for everything that happens in the next three episodes.

I agree.  Because Emma hasn't been through enough already, she'll have to pay for wanting to bring Hook back.  Never mind that the rest of them went along on the trip to do the same thing.  It's got to be Emma that's miserable.

Do the writers not get it that it's not entertaining to watch Hook and Emma suffer for an entire year?  Do they not get that it looks like they are out of ideas?  Now we've got another forced bonding session (and yes it's forced, because Henry running away is probably the only thing that would keep Emma from Hook on his return....unless drinks with Regina) between Emma and Regina.  The thing is, Regina is nearly solely responsible for Emma's life being miserable, they already amicably co parent, there's no reason to be BFFs.

[Curio]

Henry is the typical boy who forgets all about his guy friends once he's crushing on a girl.

On the one hand, I'm excited for Lana to go back to being the Evil Queen because "hero" Regina is incredibly boring, but on the other hand, I'm dreading next season because it probably means a redux of Season 4 where Emma feels bad about Regina and bends over backward to bring her back to the light. Ugh. 

[YaddaYadda]

But what happens, including Robin's death is not Emma's fault. Actually Robin's death has nothing to do with Emma if Regina wants to blame her for it. That is squarely on Regina's shoulders because she encouraged Zelena to romance Hades because she thought love can change him.

Well it didn't, but he's taking full advantage of it.

I don't see this as a redux of season 4, as much as I see it as a Snow vs EQ, but Emma starring in the role of Snow instead.

To quote Regina in season 3A, Emma has everything! This is exactly how she will feel after Robin dies. Emma gets to have Hook back, and Regina gets to lose Robin.

[Souris]

7 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

But what happens, including Robin's death is not Emma's fault. Actually Robin's death has nothing to do with Emma if Regina wants to blame her for it. That is squarely on Regina's shoulders because she encouraged Zelena to romance Hades because she thought love can change him.

Well it didn't, but he's taking full advantage of it.

I don't see this as a redux of season 4, as much as I see it as a Snow vs EQ, but Emma starring in the role of Snow instead.

To quote Regina in season 3A, Emma has everything! This is exactly how she will feel after Robin dies. Emma gets to have Hook back, and Regina gets to lose Robin.

That's exactly it.  

When has Regina EVER placed blame where it belongs, especially if it's on herself? It's always the fault of a 10-year-old or a book....

Pretty sure they're setting up S6 to be ER vs. CS, blaming Emma for Robin's death, poor Regina, always a victim of the Snow family, etc. Everything old is new again! That awful, Emma-shaming script tease is part of it.

[Curio]

12 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I don't see this as a redux of season 4, as much as I see it as a Snow vs EQ, but Emma starring in the role of Snow instead.

I wish they would go that route, but it'll also make the inevitable Regina/Emma friendship moment at the end of the arc even more ridiculous. I can't handle another arc where Regina is absolute trash to Emma while Emma rolls over and does her Savior duty to give Regina her happy ending again. Enough is enough at some point, and Regina needs to fight for her own happy ending without Emma and the Charmings' help at every turn.

[Mathius]

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That article does make it sound like Regina doesn't need any jekyll/hyde potion help with going evil again.

Here is pretty much the proof that Hyde is responsible for Regina's turn.  It's one of the last scenes filmed, Hyde is clearly getting Regina to come with him somewhere private, naturally leading to a secret interior scene.  Cue the potion and Regina turning into the Evil Queen.

They'll tease Regina going evil on her own at the start of the finale, but c'mon, we know they'd never go there.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Mathius

[Curio]

I'm curious how they're going to do this Jekyll/Hyde thing with the Evil Queen. Is it going to be a situation where she turns Evil Queen at a specific time every day, or will it be her Hulking out whenever she gets pissed? Will Regina feel bad about whatever she does as the Evil Queen, or will she not even know what she does when she morphs? Knowing these writers, it'll probably be the latter because they like to treat the two characters as completely separate from one another.

Also, Henry? You're a dumbass if you think getting rid of magic will keep your mom from going evil. Mayor Regina was plenty evil even without her magic.

[Shanna Marie]

Even if it's not a case of Emma being constantly berated and having to take it, I find it rather sad that apparently as soon as she's reunited with her back-from-the-dead boyfriend, Emma's going to have to leave to go on a road trip with Regina. It's like they took the thing we were so angry about from 4A and amplified it. Then, he was nearly killed and she went to have shots with Regina instead of spending time with him. Now he actually died and she thought she lost him forever, and she has to leave town with Regina instead of spending time with him. Couldn't Hook have gone with them? He's pretty good with Henry and is non-magical, so he might have been a good person to help talk Henry down off the ledge.

Or do we know for sure that Hook's back before Emma has to leave? Most of the finale photos I can recall involved him with the Charmings. Might he return while Emma's out of town, then he teams up with the Charmings for whatever, and then that joyous meeting we see outside the diner might be when Emma comes back and finds him alive?

[Curio]

I'm pretty sure Hook comes back before the road trip because the road trip doesn't happen until the finale, and Colin was seen filming with Jen for the next episode and she was wearing her funeral outfit. I'm guessing Hook, Charming, Snow, and Zelena get sucked into the portal at about the same Henry decides to ditch with Violet and go to NYC, so Henry doesn't realize that destroying magic means all of those people will be lost forever. So that's why Emma and Regina have to go and convince him to stop his plan in NYC, but they realize they're too late because Rumple does something bad, but at the last second Henry comes up with the "throw your coins into the fountain and make wishes everyone!" plan, and that's enough to bring back some magic and make Hook, Charming, Snow, and Zelena appear in the fountain.

But yeah, it's really annoying that Emma finally gets reunited with her True Love™ only to be separated again and forced to take a road trip with Regina.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Curio

[RadioGirl27]

6 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Or do we know for sure that Hook's back before Emma has to leave? Most of the finale photos I can recall involved him with the Charmings. Might he return while Emma's out of town, then he teams up with the Charmings for whatever, and then that joyous meeting we see outside the diner might be when Emma comes back and finds him alive?

There is a pic with them that is clearly after the funeral, with both of them wearing black clothes.

I don't need a script tease to know what Emma is going to say to Hook once he comes back: "You are alive, great. I'm sure there is a fantastic story there, but I have to go coddle Regina. See you around".

[Mathius]

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I'm pretty sure Hook comes back before the road trip because the road trip doesn't happen until the finale

Also, Hook was with Snowing and Zelena when they get sucked in the portal after sending the Camelot folks home.

Which will most likely be a side effect of whatever dumbass plan Henry enacts.  Thanks a lot, Truest Stupid!

[Rumsy4]

27 minutes ago, Mathius said:

They'll tease Regina going evil on her own at the start of the finale, but c'mon, we know they'd never go there.

Agree. 

14 minutes ago, Curio said:

Will Regina feel bad about whatever she does as the Evil Queen, or will she not even know what she does when she morphs? Knowing these writers, it'll probably be the latter because they like to treat the two characters as completely separate from one another.

It will be a big mystery for half the season, becasue lbr, the Nevengers are not going to figure out the truth even if it danced naked in front of him wearing Dobby's tea cozy. heh

13 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Even if it's not a case of Emma being constantly berated and having to take it, I find it rather sad that apparently as soon as she's reunited with her back-from-the-dead boyfriend, Emma's going to have to leave to go on a road trip with Regina. It's like they took the thing we were so angry about from 4A and amplified it. 

Geniuses. Yeah. I'm already pissed about this. 

4 minutes ago, Curio said:

I'm guessing Hook, Charming, Snow, and Zelena get sucked into the portal at about the same Henry decides to ditch with Violet and go to NYC, so Henry doesn't realize that destroying magic means all of those people will be lost forever. So that's why Emma and Regina have to go and convince him to stop his plan in NYC, but they realize they're too late because Rumple does something bad, but at the last second Henry comes up with the "throw your coins into the fountain and make wishes everyone!" plan, and that's enough to bring back some magic and make Hook, Charming, Snow, and Zelena appear in the fountain.

This has to be the dumbest solution ever, even by ONCE standards. Sorry for the grouch today. I'm just feeling really down this week after the episode. 

[Curio]

3 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

This has to be the dumbest solution ever, even by ONCE standards.

It's basically the equivalent of the scene in Elf where everyone has to sing a Christmas song to make the magic sled work again.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

43 minutes ago, Curio said:

It's basically the equivalent of the scene in Elf where everyone has to sing a Christmas song to make the magic sled work again.

It's Peter Pan where the audience has to clap if they believe in faeries in order save Tinkerbell.

[KAOS Agent]

Definitelt sounds like Henry is responsible for the portal going haywire and everyone getting sucked in. Do you think maybe this time Henry could face some consequences for being a brat?  Also, if Rumpel is evil and not helping, do they just steal his car to get home?

[Curio]

1 hour ago, KAOS Agent said:

Do you think maybe this time Henry could face some consequences for being a brat?

If a Graham gets killed in the forest and no one is around to see Regina do it, does it make a sound?

[CheshireCat]

I have a hard time believing there isn't much more to the story. After all, A&E made a point of saying that a lot of characters get closure on their past in the UW. So, having the bad guys then go bad again (assuming that it might not just be Regina but also Zelena (who's still sort of in between so it's not such a huge step for her)) makes it sound like this whole UW arc was for nothing. In general, it would suggest that all the characters have gone through was for nothing. And while it seems that this whole "overcoming obstacles for nothing" is happening on another show right now, I would like to believe that this show is a fairy tale and overcoming obstacles is never for nothing in fairy tales. Overcoming obstacles actually leads to happy endings in fairy tales, so I sincerely hope that there's more to the story and this is just another obstacle.

[Souris]

I came across this BTS pics post again today, and it looks like Henry ends up with part of the Olympus crystal that Hades has in the preview. I'm guessing that's what he uses to (try to?) destroy magic.

[RadioGirl27]

2 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

Overcoming obstacles actually leads to happy endings in fairy tales, so I sincerely hope that there's more to the story and this is just another obstacle.

Not for Hook and Emma, for them only leads to pain and despair.

Edited May 3, 2016 by RadioGirl27
Aghhhhh

[Mathius]

4 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

So, having the bad guys then go bad again (assuming that it might not just be Regina but also Zelena (who's still sort of in between so it's not such a huge step for her)) makes it sound like this whole UW arc was for nothing.

I don't think Zelena is going bad again given spoilers, and as I said it's almost a certainty that Regina does not give in to the temptation to willingly go bad, and the Evil Queen's return is Hyde potion-induced.  Since these writers love their role-reversals, I wouldn't be surprised if Zelena steps up in 6A to try to bring Regina back over to the good side. 

Quote

And while it seems that this whole "overcoming obstacles for nothing" is happening on another show right now, I would like to believe that this show is a fairy tale and overcoming obstacles is never for nothing in fairy tales. Overcoming obstacles actually leads to happy endings in fairy tales, so I sincerely hope that there's more to the story and this is just another obstacle.

Have you watched this show lately?  Less and less happiness is coming out of these obstacles, it's always on to the next obstacle rather than give anyone time to actually breathe and BE happy.  It already IS all for nothing.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Mathius

[KingOfHearts]

Could the universe stop giving Henry things he doesn't know how to use properly? Dynamite, Author pens, Olympian Crystals...

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This is not really spoilery, but here it is the article from EW about who the new guys are not.

Eddy mentioned Graham? So they do remember him! (Except when it comes to Regina murdering him. That part's a little fuzzy.)

The way A&E are talking, they seem to be alluding to the Jekyll/Hyde potion for Regina. That's the only way I could see them having any significant impact for S6. They're also playing up their identities, which affirms Jekyll/Hyde even further.
 

Edited May 4, 2016 by KingOfHearts