Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[orza]

I'm wondering if Robbie Carlyle misread the scene, and Henry actually wants to forget his fake memories so he won't feel so conflicted about things. Between knowing the true history of Emma/Neal, and the Regina/Robin fallout, he might want to forget memories of a happier life so he doesn't feel torn.

That doesn't make any sense. That scene has already been filmed so Robert Carlyle based his remarks on the actual dialog they used, the direction given by the director, discussion with the other actor and info from the producers.

 

[Jean]

I think he wants new fake memories, of Neal, is what Robert meant. The other interesting part of that is Robert has read up to episode 4 script where he revealed that Rumple gets blackmailed about the dagger but he didn't know that Henry is going to be working at the pawnshop, so that is post episode 4. I had assumed that Ep. 4, The Apprentice was referring to Henry working with Rumple but that doesn't seem to be the case. We also won't know the Elsa/Rumple history by that point either. What if EM's character, the Snow Queen was Elsa's mentor and got caught up in the middle of Snow Queen vs Rumple.

[retrograde]

The official OuaT Twitter has released a small script sneak, though it's something we've already seen in the Anna/Elsa scene from SDCC. But once again, you can see through to the pages behind.  I can't personally get a lot out of it, but the fandom always surprises me with its ability to pull spoilers from the tiniest hints.

[l star]

Roland is four correct? I'm expecting him to just be confused. First he meets Regina, gets a new toy and seemingly likes her. Then he gets dropped in this whole new world with his daddy and Regina comes too. They proceed to playing happy families- holding hands, getting ice cream, she's daddy's 'friend'. Then his mom shows up who he doesn't really remember and all of a sudden everything blows up. I hope they don't play it like Roland is just so incredibly bonded to Regina because bullshit but he should be very confused. If the Hood family sees her out in Storybrooke, I could see him trying to take off towards her. Considering how long Marion has been gone, he should know Regina better than her. And while I don't have any strong opinion one way or the other about Marion, if she tells her four year old that Regina tried to kill her, I'm going to seriously shade her. He's four.

 

If the key to Henry's request is that he is unhappy, maybe in preteen boy that really means overwhelmed. He was already unhappy in Storybrooke before he got his memories back. While everything seemed great in the moments right after he got his memories back, that shouldn't fix everything. I don't think it's as simple as Regina vs. Emma or Storybrooke vs. New York. Where does this kid fit in? Emma may not want or feel like a fairytale character but at least she has powers. Henry doesn't really have anything that ties him to either world. Add in the confusion of Marion coming back with Henry now knowing she was gone because Regina killed her and finding out Neal died, and I'm not surprised he might want to go back to New York. Without his memories, he had no reason to think he was anything other than just like everyone else there. That could be appealing for a kid. I don't think he will really want it though. While he and Regina have their issues and he has his issues in this fairytale world, she's his mom and I can't see him actually wanting to leave and forget her. That's more of a kid's fantasy when he's upset than something he would want to follow through on.

[stealinghome]

Considering how long Marion has been gone, he should know Regina better than her.

But Roland's only known Regina for like 3 days. (We have no evidence that they interacted at all in the Missing Year past when she saved him from the flying monkey.) Roland, at this point, should barely recognize Regina.  He's seen her all of, like, once--maybe twice--since she and Robin started dating four days ago. (Seriously--the only time I can remember him spending any time with her in Storybrooke is in 3x22. I really think Roland has met Regina back in Storybrooke one time.)

 

Which is not to say that Roland should recognize Marian, because he shouldn't. But I'm going to cry major bs if the show tries to pretend that Regina and Roland have some ~deep bond. Because...they don't. At this point, both Marian and Regina should be virtual strangers to Roland.

And while I don't have any strong opinion one way or the other about Marion, if she tells her four year old that Regina tried to kill her, I'm going to seriously shade her. He's four.

I don't know, I think Marian is entirely justified in saying to Roland "See that genocidal, world-destroying maniac who tried to kill Mama? If you see her coming, RUN IN THE OTHER DIRECTION. As fast as you can."

 

If Robin wants to shack up with a murderer/rapist/destroyer of a world and civilization/enslaver of an entire world's population and put himself in danger (given that Regina has a history of killing her romantic "partners"/sex slaves), that's on him, but Marian is well within her rights to be seriously alarmed that Regina is anywhere near her child, and to tell her child whatever she sees fit about Regina. It's not Marian being petty, it's a question of Roland's safety, given that Regina has killed children--and abused children--in the past. And given that the last time Regina had a stepchild it was Snow White...and that went spectacularly for Snow, didn't it?

Edited August 17, 2014 by stealinghome

[Shanna Marie]

Yeah, I'm confused, because it definitely seemed to me that Henry remembered both lives at the end of last season. Even after Regina gave him TLK, he was telling her about how he'd gotten good at math and his life in NYC.

The New York memories aren't fake, though. He really lived that, so he really got good at math and had New York pizza and bagels and friends, and all that. It was just a life based on fake memories in which Emma never gave him up, and he grew up with Emma as his mom, never having been adopted, going to normal schools with normal friends who grew and aged along with him. Unlike his real memories, in which he grew up in a strange town where he was the only one who grew and changed, and he was the only one who noticed this, which, along with the fact that the entire town was terrified of his mother, meant he had no friends, and he had to deal with the fact that his mother had given him up and that his adoptive mother gaslit him and was willing to hurt him in order to score points against Emma. That may be the part he'd prefer to forget and maybe have the best of both worlds -- growing up with his birth mom and having a normal childhood, then discovering at age 12 that his grandparents are Snow White and Prince Charming and his family is from the world of fairy tales and his mom is dating Captain Hook, who can tell him stories about his birth father, the son of Rumpelstiltskin. But somehow I can't imagine them going there because it would slight Regina and would mean him essentially rejecting her as a mother for good. Then again, it would give her a lot to cry about and an excuse to be bad because she's such a victim and Snow's terrible family keeps forcing her to be evil.

[YaddaYadda]

To be fair, Regina fed Roland ice cream, so he should support her like Henry does.

 

So that's 1 ice cream sighting, 1 ice cream mention and one FroYo.  I hate saying FroYo but I really don't wanna type the whole thing.  Those two jerks (affectionately) A&E were peppering us with those, weren't they.  I'm pretty sure ME won't be Elsa's mother or any relation to her. 

Edited August 17, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[retrograde]

While I think Henry should be screwed up by his dad dying and his past... $20 says he goes to Gold because he's upset about his mums fighting. Losing his memories would be a stupid/illogical solution, but kids do and think stupid/illogical things. Mostly, I suspect they just want an excuse for Henry and Gold to start spending time together. The writers' thinking was probably "Henry needs an excuse to seek Gold, so he needs a problem that can only be solved by magic. His current problem is that his mums are fighting. So what kind of magical solution can we shoehorn in there?" 

 

I mean, I'd love to see Henry actually deal with all the crazy crap he has gone through, but I don't see it happening in the first two episodes with so much else going on. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

While I think Henry should be screwed up by his dad dying and his past... $20 says he goes to Gold because he's upset about his mums fighting.

I totally see this happening, because for one neither Regina or Emma would let Henry even near that stuff unless they stole a dose of Snow's stupid pills. He's probably sneaking around to do it, or his mothers are just too busy to realize what he's doing. With Neal gone, I can see Henry exploring the dark side of his family tree. Which is good, because that kid desperately needs an interesting plot no matter how small.

Edited August 18, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[retrograde]

I totally see this happening, because for one neither Regina or Emma would let Henry even near that stuff unless they stole a dose of Snow's stupid pills. He's probably sneaking around to do it, or his mothers are just too busy to realize what he's doing.

Well I think it's a given the initial meeting is without their knowledge, as Robert Carlyle said he comes there at night. After that... I'd like to think they wouldn't let him hang around that creepy hovel, but who even knows with this show? If Regina is busy with her  romance dramas and Emma is busy dealing with Elsa they might both say, "Sure, sounds like a great first job!" if it's convenient to the plot.

Edited August 18, 2014 by retrograde

[KAOS Agent]

Robert said Henry was in the shop very late at night, so I'm assuming he snuck out. Also, if Henry is upset about his father, maybe someone should point out to Snowing that their naming his uncle Neal is now a constant reminder to Henry of what he's lost. It'll never happen, but I'm still so burned that they didn't think through the implications and painful memories associated with Neal to even bother to ask Emma if she (and Henry too) would be okay with it.

[snarkastic]

Zoso is apparently returning

[Rumsy4]

Zoso is apparently returning

Very interesting. Another Ogre-war flashback? Dark One origin story?

Edited August 18, 2014 by Rumsy4

[sharky]

Granted, I saw this on tumblr, but some are speculating that he's going to be the "elderly, grizzled and unflappable knight" mentioned in this TVLine spoiler column. Still have no idea how that fits in to whatever story they are telling for episode 4 but there you go.

[Souris]

How did I not realize that Brad Dourif was the previous Dark One???

[retrograde]

Granted, I saw this on tumblr, but some are speculating that he's going to be the "elderly, grizzled and unflappable knight" mentioned in this TVLine spoiler column. Still have no idea how that fits in to whatever story they are telling for episode 4 but there you go.

That spoiler was taken from a casting notice, though. They wouldn't be casting if the character was already going to be Dourif/Zoso.

Edited August 18, 2014 by retrograde

[snarkastic]

Granted, I saw this on tumblr, but some are speculating that he's going to be the "elderly, grizzled and unflappable knight" mentioned in this TVLine spoiler column. Still have no idea how that fits in to whatever story they are telling for episode 4 but there you go.

 

The person who originally posted that theory forgot he had already appeared on OUAT and edited their post after, but everyone had already reblogged and gotten carried away, as happens on tumblr.

[FurryFury]

I'd definitely want to see a Dark One origin story, because the whole thing is a part of the show's original mythology and should be dealt with sooner or later, but it's too early for that. That should be saved for when the writers feel bold enough to finally depower Rumple and maybe transfer the curse to another character in order to shake things up. Ideally in the last season or at least the penultimate one.

[InsertWordHere]

Well, since Anna and Kristoff don't appear to be in Storybrooke yet, maybe some of the original theories were on the right track when they speculated that "Frozen' occurred a couple centuries ago and Zoso is the one who trapped Elsa and Rumple just inherited the urn. That doesn't explain Elizabeth Mitchell's character if she is the mom though, unless she too was urned or is immortal. This is for The Apprentice right? So is someone Zoso's apprentice? Or is Zoso just Obi Wan-ing Rumple?

[FurryFury]

I doubt Frozen happened long ago. Otherwise, all three characters (and probably Mitchell) would have to be kept in stasis, and that's too contrived even for this show (oh whom am I kidding, not it's not). 

[KAOS Agent]

Wouldn't Rumpel have to have been the one who urned Elsa? Why else would she be looking at the newspaper announcing the Rumbelle wedding with anger? 

[Souris]

Interview with Colin about Hook for S4. Mostly variations on the same themes we already know.

[retrograde]

Wouldn't Rumpel have to have been the one who urned Elsa? Why else would she be looking at the newspaper announcing the Rumbelle wedding with anger?

I'm sure you're right, but I do love the idea that when you become the Dark One you inherent this job lot of random shit.

[FurryFury]

I kinda doubt Rumple inherited anything material. It's been a while since I've seen "Desperate Souls", but I don't recall them being well acquainted before he killed Zoso. Of course, the show may always say "along with the magic powers, the next Dark One gets the knowledge about some treasure vault", but it would still feel a retcon. And yes, Elsa definitely wouldn't have recognized Rumple's name if it was the case.

[retrograde]

Unless he let her out and she went all ice crazy so he was like "NOPE" and shoved her back in again.

But yeah, there's gonna be a bunch of dagger stuff coming up between Belle and the blackmailing, so my money is on a Zoso flashback related to that.

Edited August 18, 2014 by retrograde

[Jean]

Well maybe the dark curse is from Arendelle. Or Zoso is from Arendelle and number however many in a long line of Dark Ones. I'm just glad Rumple gets something to do besides relationship drama. I kind of think both Anna and Kristoff is in Storybrook and imprisoned by EM's character. That one interview where someone asked the cast if the Frozen people were in Storybrook or not and Jen went yes then no? It looked like she accidentally let the cat out of the bag. And they would have to be kept in stasis anyway, at least as long as Elsa's been and we don't know how long that is.

 

 

I'd definitely want to see a Dark One origin story, because the whole thing is a part of the show's original mythology and should be dealt with sooner or later, but it's too early for that. That should be saved for when the writers feel bold enough to finally depower Rumple and maybe transfer the curse to another character in order to shake things up. Ideally in the last season or at least the penultimate one.

I actually think they've run out of ideas for Rumple and hence why we might be getting the origin story. I wouldn't be surprised if they uncursed him this season or in 4B and come up with a never heard of before loop hole (aka plot point) to keep him alive but uncursed. Then they can use another half season to curse him all over again. I feel like it'd be something dumb Henry would do, out of some heroic notion, stab Rumple to get rid of his curse but not knowing all the details.

[RadioGirl27]

I have a huge problem with Rumbelle, but I would be really mad if any possible decurse of Rumple doesn't somehow include Belle. But that's speculation.

Back to spoilers, I think Zoso's presence means we are going to know the origins of the Dark One curse, and that's one of the few things left to explain I'm actually interested, so yeah!. And Brad Dourif, doble yeah.

Edited August 18, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[FurryFury]

Well maybe the dark curse is from Arendelle. Or Zoso is from Arendelle and number however many in a long line of Dark Ones.

 

Please no. I don't want them to connect the Dark Curse origin which I'm kinda interested in with Frozen, which is basically mythology-free and seems very tacked-on and extraneous to the central story.

 

I actually think they've run out of ideas for Rumple and hence why we might be getting the origin story. I wouldn't be surprised if they uncursed him this season or in 4B and come up with a never heard of before loop hole (aka plot point) to keep him alive but uncursed.

 

I dunno, I think Rumple still can have relevance even without the curse. He has knowledge and brains and a lot of magic items hidden away.

I think they'll save the uncursing at least for s5-6, they could go with curse transferring to someone like Hook or even Henry (please no) or baby Neal (hello, Charmed!)

[Souris]

If someone else ended up as the Dark One, it would be interesting if it was Belle.

[FurryFury]

It would be if Emily was a better actress and the character had something going for her besides "patient and delusional love interest". But she doesn't, thus I don't really want to see her on screen more. Not to mention she isn't connected to anyone on the show except Rumple.

[stealinghome]

Nah, if anyone will be the new Dark One, they'll make it Snow. And of course Regina will have to heroically defeat her...just to prove that Snow is actually the evilest evil EVAR and Regina is the Unicorn of all Lightness and Good.

[FurryFury]

Don't give them any ideas.

[Shanna Marie]

Or Regina will become the new Dark One, but because her soul is so deep-feeling and good, she won't actually be dark. She'll just be super powerful and save them all with her amazing Light One magic. Never mind that even with ordinary magic, she used it to crush and hurt people and get her own way with no thought as to how it might affect others.

[FurryFury]

Hey, maybe she'll turn the Dark One into the Light One!

[retrograde]

Looks like filming in Steveston for Tuesday and Wednesday is confirmed.

[BaggythePanther]

 

Nah, if anyone will be the new Dark One, they'll make it Snow. And of course Regina will have to heroically defeat her...just to prove that Snow is actually the evilest evil EVAR and Regina is the Unicorn of all Lightness and Good.

I actually wouldn't mind Snow as the Dark One. I liked the bit of Dark!Snow in season one, and the writers tend to write better for villains anyway. And you could use Charming's True Love Kiss to break the curse. Or maybe they'll give the TLK to Regina to show that she's totally over the whole Daniel thing and it's all good now.

[FurryFury]

And you could use Charming's True Love Kiss to break the curse.

 

I don't mind Snowing most of the time, but that would be way too cheesy and predictable. We already know they have true love that can break any curse. I don't see much of a story in the Dark One Snow, she has two children and a loving husband. Way too stable for that.

[Souris]

If Snow became the Dark One, would David transform, too, since they share a heart? Thus, the Dark Two!

[stealinghome]

Oh snap, @Souris, that could actually be kind of awesome! We've talked elsewhere about how cool a dark mirror of Snowing could be...but Snowing themselves could be that mirror!

 

On the Zoso front, is there any possibility that they're flashing back to Rumpel wherever he was before Belle and Neal resurrected him? Maybe that vault contains the souls of all the Dark Ones? If they want to get into dagger mythology this season, that could be a way to do it.

[FurryFury]

Or maybe, the Dark One is kinda like the Avatar (ATLA/Legend of Korra)? That would be... actually pretty cool. A retcon, but cool.

[Souris]

I love the idea of Dark Two Snowing the more I think about it! That would certainly throw things for a loop. As long as it's eventually undone without them dying. All their friends would certainly spend the arc trying to figure out how to free them without killing them, while trying to thwart whatever mischievous havoc the Dark Two wreak.

 

Filming info:

They'll be filming in Steveston on Moncton Street on Tuesday and on the water on Wednesday. Perhaps a boat outing for the CS date? I'm trying to figure out what else could be on the water. Unless they're planning to digitally freeze the water.

 

Another interview with Colin about S3 & S4. For some reason, I couldn't get it to load in Firefox, but it loaded fine in Explorer.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Souris

[Curio]

They'll be filming in Steveston on Moncton Street on Tuesday and on the water on Wednesday. Perhaps a boat outing for the CS date? I'm trying to figure out what else could be on the water.

It could possibly be a Jolly Roger (or Jewel of the Realm) flashback, or a flashback to Elsa and Anna's parents' shipwreck.

But personally, I like your date theory much better! 

Edited August 18, 2014 by Curio

[Souris]

I don't think it can be a JR flashback, unless it's a built set, because the Lady Washington (the ship they use for the JR), is in Bremerton, Wash., and scheduled for an evening sail there on Wednesday. And I can't see them doing a built set on the actual waterfront, because surely that would be hella involved and probably blow their budget.

 

Apparently Colin is the show's new spokesperson (no complaints here): The 237th interview today is a TVLine interview. Sounds like there may be a bit of fun with Hook vs. technology.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Souris

[sharky]

I'm sure the PR people just scheduled him for a round of interviews today. I have to say though that some of those sites are kind of random. Whatever. And I'm finding it odd that they had him do it now as opposed to closer to the actual episodes airing. I'm wondering if filming tomorrow is going to include Colin's new clothes and perhaps an official photo release of the new threads.

And yes, I will be scouring tumblr all day tomorrow in hopes of seeing those new clothes.

Eta: Never mind. Forgot that he was probably doing press because of the DVD release.

Edited August 18, 2014 by sharky

[Joenigma]

 

On the Zoso front, is there any possibility that they're flashing back to Rumpel wherever he was before Belle and Neal resurrected him? Maybe that vault contains the souls of all the Dark Ones? If they want to get into dagger mythology this season, that could be a way to do it.

 

Back at TWoP I was wondering if Zoso was the one who really trapped Elsa in the Urn and Rumple inherited it when he became the Dark One, but spoilers so far don't really pan that out.

[Emma]

I wish I could care about this but I just don't. Guess Belle fans will be happy.

 

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/08/18/once-upon-a-time-belle-mom-season-4/

 

 

“We are going to meet Belle’s mother,” executive producer Adam Horowitz tells EW. “For the first time, we’ll delve into Belle’s past pre-the encounter with Rumple.”

That means as we learn Belle’s history before meeting new hubby Rumplestiltskin, we’re finally going to find out who Sir Maurice was married to.

[retrograde]

I don't care about Belle's mother BUT if Belle gets her own storyline that frees Rumple up to have non-romance storylines which is always a positive.

I am mostly hoping tomorrow reveals these new clothes to stop the crazed speculation on social media. It will result in days of Tumblr declaring that it is "DEAD" and "can't even" but it will be worth it.

[KingOfHearts]

http://abc.go.com/shows/once-upon-a-time/news/frozen-zone/0140815-sneak-peek-elsa-anna-making-of-frozen-special

 

There will be a Once Upon a Time preview during the Frozen special on September 2 featuring Anna, Elsa and Kristoff, "never before seen".

 

 

“We are going to meet Belle’s mother,” executive producer Adam Horowitz tells EW. “For the first time, we’ll delve into Belle’s past pre-the encounter with Rumple.”

 

Belle's mother, eh? She better be an actual fairy tale character or someone important. If she's another Prince Jonathan or Princess Eva type, I pass.

Edited August 18, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Anakerie]

At this point I refuse to believe Belle's mother is anyone but Derpy from My Little Pony:  Friendship is Magic

[Jean]

I bet Derpy ate Woegina's heels and therefore ruined her life for all eternity.

Which branch of Henry's family tree is still blank? That's probably where Belle's mom fit it.