Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Shanna Marie]

There's clearly been a time jump if he has a gravestone.

A time jump of at least 50-100 years to get that degree of wear and staining. And to have a stone of that design, from those materials. What was his father's first name again? Could it be his father's grave, or maybe some ancestor's?

[Souris]

I'm not too fussed about the wear on the gravestone. It could be one that Emma magically created, so it could be any size, shape & patina.

[RadioGirl27]

I am not prepared for this level of angst. Poor Emma. Poor us! There's clearly been a time jump if he has a gravestone. Probably the spring premiere will open X months after the winter finale.

I think you should start preparing yourself. Knowing this writers, when Hook cames back (with all his adventure happening off camera, of course) Emma would be about to get married with a Munchkin or a Leprechaun, or something like this.

 

(I'm kidding. Or maybe not. If Hook cames back on his own, which seems likely, I'm pretty sure we are not going to see much of his fight).

Edited November 3, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Serena]

LMAO, why did you have to post that link? I had to check out the blog because I'm curious and I've now found out people on Tumblr are like "it's totally him and it's permanent!!" and I'm like sweet summer child, have you never watched tv before?

Edited November 3, 2015 by Serena

[Mathius]

Seriously? Did these people believe Rumple's 3A finale death was permanent too?

[mjgchick]

Maybe the grave stone looks old because it's an inside joke to the times Emma has called him old.

 

The real question is will Emma push Henry away because her boyfriend whom she's known for close to two yrs actually died and not have an ex come back to life.

[KingOfHearts]

There are only two people who pay attention to wear and tear on tombstones... Archaeologists and OUAT spoiler fanatics. ;)

[HoodlumSheep]

The fact that the gravestone shows so much wear bugs me. Even with a cheaper grade of stone, it shouldn't look that worn. Unless they got record rain and horrible weather every single day for however long the possible time jump might be.

Of all the crazy things this show has done, it's the condition of a possible Killian Jones gravestone that's going to bug me til the end of my days.

So let's see, a Ghost & Mrs. Muir suggestion...has no one speculated that they could clearly be trapped in some sort of Christmas Carol situation? Regina and Robin obviously represent the Ghost of Christmases yet to come and are showing Killian his grave (because he's obviously Scrooge).

I'll be quiet now.

Edited November 3, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[ABitOFluff]

So let's see, a Ghost & Mrs. Muir suggestion...has no one speculated that they could clearly be trapped in some sort of Christmas Carol situation? Regina and Robin obviously represent the Ghost of Christmases yet to come and are showing Killian his grave (because he's obviously Scrooge).

I'll be quiet now.

I can see that. Or we can go with the tried and true, Yet Another Alternate Universe.

[orza]

Emma and Regina have magic. They can conjure up a headstone to look however they want it to look.

 

In the real world, skilled stone masons working on restoration projects like 800-year old cathedrals regularly produce weathered-looking replacement stone to match existing masonry.

[scenicbyway]

Back to the ring Emma's wearing in the promo photo...it sure looks like the ring Killian wore on his pinky finger for their first date.  I do wonder why she's wearing a ring on a necklace to begin with.

 

I've seen a lot of discussion on Tumblr about how the True Love Couples have all defeated death in some way and now it's Captain Swan's turn.  Snow had the sleeping curse, Charms gave up his heart.  Rumple sacrificed himself to kill Pan, everyone has tried to kill Belle at some point, Robin "died" in Camelot, Regina killed a bunch of people (I don't think Regina and Belle's stories have come full circle yet).  So if Killian "dies" in 5.11 that clears that obstacle on their path to true love and it probably leads to a wedding in 5.22.

[YaddaYadda]

the pap confirmed the name is Eveleigh Kirk. Moving on....

[Hookian]

the pap confirmed the name is Eveleigh Kirk. Moving on....

https://twitter.com/yvrshoots/status/661632676625956864

 

He doesn't know about the one to the left which is the one that people think says Killian. The one he's talking about is the top upper right one.

 

Anyways in other news Hades was cast.

[HoodlumSheep]

Greg Germann? I haven't seen any of his work. Except for Bolt--he voiced the Agent?

Still sticking with the "distinguished gentleman," huh, Abc?

Described as someone you don't want to have drinks with and his friendliness is something to be feared?

...Genderbent Dolores Umbridge??

Hmmm. I feel like that doesn't really fit the Hades from Hercules, but then again, this is A&E's own spin on greek mythology, so I guess it'll be interesting.

Edited November 3, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Shanna Marie]

I'm not sure how Emma would get the ring Hook wore on his left hand, since that's back in Gold's shop (I mean for the promo photos for this episode, not the "Original Recipe Emma" pictures from shooting). He might have given her one of his rings on a chain as some kind of grounding or reminder. Or the ring might have nothing to do with him and be some magical talisman Merlin gave her. To be honest, I don't see a ring on a chain in the promo pictures. It just looks like part of her dress to me, but I haven't bothered analyzing in-depth.

 

Tombstone or not, I don't believe for a second that they'll permanently kill Hook. I doubt the network would allow it. I mean, they used that "selfie" of Colin with Kermit to promote the new Muppet show, and it was Hook and Regina used in the up-fronts promo. If they're using a cast member to promote other things on the network, he's pretty safe. I have to say, though, that if they did kill him for good, I'd be done with the show, not so much because I like Hook himself, but it would be the final straw of crapping on Emma and on heroes in general, if after Emma took on this horrible sacrifice to save everyone else, she not only got turned into a villain but also got "punished" by having her love killed, especially since Regina got handed a pixie-dust-ordained boyfriend and his wife was miraculously removed from the picture, even though Regina was responsible for their initial separation. That would be the final proof that the story they want to tell is not the story I want to watch.

[Souris]

It definitely sounds like Hades is coming to them, rather than vice versa. I'm seriously doubting a trip to the Underworld at all. Maybe Hook will appear only as a ghost/vision or in flashbacks until the season finale, when Emma will finally go after him in the Underworld. Big CS moments tend to happen in the season finales.

 

ETA: I'm with Shanna Marie. I seriously doubt they'd kill Hook for good, but if they actually did, I would be done with the show so fast I'd sprain my fingers deleting it from my DVR scheduling. Absolutely zero chance I'd keep watching.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Souris

[Curio]

If that is Killian Jones on the tombstone (even though it's probably not), maybe he had to fake his death before he went full-on pirate and that's his centuries-old tombstone. He probably knew the royal navy would always be on the hunt for Lieutenant Killian Jones, so he faked his death and created his famous black pirate ensemble. Then after a few years of building up a dangerous pirate reputation, it didn't matter anymore if people knew his real name or not.

[Hookian]

It definitely sounds like Hades is coming to them, rather than vice versa. I'm seriously doubting a trip to the Underworld at all. Maybe Hook will appear only as a ghost/vision or in flashbacks until the season finale, when Emma will finally go after him in the Underworld. Big CS moments tend to happen in the season finales.

 

ETA: I'm with Shanna Marie. I seriously doubt they'd kill Hook for good, but if they actually did, I would be done with the show so fast I'd sprain my fingers deleting it from my DVR scheduling. Absolutely zero chance I'd keep watching.

 

What if the whole reason they fight Hades is because Hades has Killian's body. His spirit is still around fighting but without his body he can't return to the living world? Something crazy like that.

 

I don't think anyone truly believes his death will stick and if they devote an arc to this storyline no way would it end with the death sticking.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Hookian

[Rumsy4]

That tombstone is probably part of the original cemetery. Why on earth would Emma (or Regina for that matter) conjure up a dilapidated gravestone for Killian Jones? Also katmtan seems to have confirmed that it wasn't KJ's name. 

 

Not sure what to make of Hades yet. We shall see...

[sharky]

If it is his tombstone and Hades comes to town, perhaps the tombstone is a decoy to make Hades think Hook is dead. And meanwhile Hook is laying low in Regina's vault. We know she has a bedroom or something in there since she stayed there with Robin. Then Emma and Hook can have secret sex in the same place where Regina and Robin had secret sex. We know how much A&E like their gross parallels.

[YaddaYadda]

We know how much A&E like their gross parallels.

 

Le'ts hope they change the sheets then.

 

Maybe Hades wants to turn Storybrooke into hell on earth. It's already close enough anyway.

 

If Nimue was in the UW, and marked these people, then I can see him coming to lay claim to the souls. How does anyone in SB react to seeing this new guy walking around? I'd think you'd wanna tie the person, and shove them over the town line, no?

[KingOfHearts]

Maybe it's unpopular opinion, but I'm not thrilled about Hades, Hercules or Megara. I don't mean to sound like one of those people who complained about Frankenstein or Cruella being too "out of place", but Greek mythology is a completely different ballpark from Grimm fairy tales. I could see them giving cameos to Poseidon or Medusa, but I don't trust A&E with an entire arc about it. Heck, Camelot fits perfectly into the medieval setting, but somehow still feels very deviated from our main story. Nothing against the source material, which would be cool to do, but it's TS,TW.

 

I'm honestly more enthused by the undead characters than Team Olympus. 

 

 

Maybe Hades wants to turn Storybrooke into hell on earth. It's already close enough anyway.

Maybe he's going to bring a pen and paper to take notes from Regina. Burning flames? Try living a mediocre life in Maine that never changes! Pan will torture the prisoners as his New Neverland, and Cora can manage the whole thing. (I should mention that in S3, when Rumple was talking about New Neverland, he said it would be "hellish")

Edited November 3, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[PixiePaws1]

Greg Germann ?? Yes!! If anyone could channel James Woods with a twist it is him...yay :o))

omg...dizzy with delight thinking of the verbal sparring between Killian and Hades. Colin and Greg could be comedy gold if given the right material.

I think this is Papa Jones' grave they've found....that is why all the secrecy around his name. Maybe they need grave of a relative to make your UW Portal or this is where Killian's and Emma's doorway back is?

Curious that it looks so grand. So who paid for it? we've been told he didn't abandon his boys willingly; did they pay for the stone once they got older and in the Navy and could afford it? Don't think so..cos doesn't seem like they ever crossed paths again. At first I thought the sculpture on the side of the stone was a crown and perhaps a king/queen put the headstone there after he died in service after having to leave his kids to perform that service apnd couldn't get back to them.

But now I think it is a lantern..like the lantern on Charon's ship...

Since I suggested the similarity between the rings my thoughts are (omg this will sound fanficcy) his mother's ring.

[Hookian]

Le'ts hope they change the sheets then.

 

Maybe Hades wants to turn Storybrooke into hell on earth. It's already close enough anyway.

 

If Nimue was in the UW, and marked these people, then I can see him coming to lay claim to the souls. How does anyone in SB react to seeing this new guy walking around? I'd think you'd wanna tie the person, and shove them over the town line, no?

 

He's a god I highly doubt the townline would effect him in anyway.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Hookian

[YaddaYadda]

He's a god I highly doubt the townline would effect him in anyway.

 

I am only joking. Plus it's this show, where Arthur is an asshole, Robin never really loved Marian, and Captain Hook doesn't have a perm, and waxed mustache. You know Hades will muhahaha around, twirl his "mustache", have the upper hand on the heroes because they'll be stupid, then they'll turn it around in the last episode, and beat a God.

 

I can't take this show seriously.

[Hookian]

Sydney is returning in the 100th. Do you think they'll use Sydney as a way to communicate with Hook maybe?

[legaleagle53]

Man, whom AREN'T they bringing back for the 100th episode?

[Curio]

Man, whom AREN'T they bringing back for the 100th episode?

 

Graham, probably.

[scenicbyway]

Man, whom AREN'T they bringing back for the 100th episode?

Neal

 

I wonder if the penalty for crossing the town line during this next arc will be bursting into flames?  What if Storybrooke actually becomes Hell? Party at Granny's!

 

I hate to speculate on the tombstone, the picture is so grainy.  Maybe Hades is Killian Jones, his grandfather or something?  There's also something up with the robed figures and marking everyone in 5.11.  Perhaps Storybrooke becomes the Underworld?

[kili]

Maybe the grave stone looks old because it's an inside joke to the times Emma has called him old.

 

 

Perhaps the time jump between seasons is longer than the usual 6 weeks....

 

I was in Stevenston for lunch today and they were setting it up for filming later this week (tomorrow?). Some things were the same and some were not.

 

The unmistakable difference was the clock tower. The building they use as the library does not actually have a clock tower. It has a round feature that is a couple of stories shorter and they CGI the clock tower on during post. Today, there is a full-sized replica of the clock portion of the tower sitting on the road. It's in two pieces and I doubt they are going to be putting it on the building (the pieces must be 20 feet high and they are currently sitting higgly-piggly on the road and a truck-bed). So, perhaps it is meant to have fallen off? Didn't we get a spoiler that they were building an exterior library set?

 

Mr. Gold's shop sign is looking decidely worn. It is dirty and is full of some rather signifcant holes. Has the shop been abandoned for a while?

 

The shoe store next to  Rabbit Hole (in the main intersection of ttown where everything happens - shoe store/hardware store/library/gas station) is no more. It is now Harmony Mortuary. Clark's general store (I forget what it was called) is now the Lettus & Sons Candlestickmakers.

 

There is also some work being done beside the post office, but that might just be city workers.

Edited November 3, 2015 by kili

[shipperx]

People must have clearer JPEGs than I've seen. How do people know that it's 'weathered'? It's a dark stone, but granite comes in various colors (as does limestone). And it's actually just set decor so who knows. Are there more clear shots than those that have been linked?

[YaddaYadda]

There's also something up with the robed figures and marking everyone in 5.11.  Perhaps Storybrooke becomes the Underworld?

 

Possibly. Maybe too much magic tore the veil between SB and the UW. 

 

Thanks for the report kili.

[Souris]

Perhaps the time jump between seasons is longer than the usual 6 weeks....

 

I was in Stevenston for lunch today and they were setting it up for filming later this week (tomorrow?). Some things were the same and some were not.

 

Ooh, thanks for the report! Are you going back for filming tomorrow?

 

Now there's a mortuary. I wonder why they'd build a clocktower instead of usual CGI?

 

If it's too long a jump, they will jump past Zelena's baby's birth. Would they do that? I guess they could show it in flashbacks.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Souris

[Hookian]

Ooh, thanks for the report! Are you going back for filming tomorrow?

 

If it's too long a jump, they will jump past Zelena's baby's birth. Would they do that? I guess they could show it in flashbacks.

 

They said we would see her give birth this season so I can only imagine that the babies birth will be seen live. I think we can expect a couple months of a time jump.

[Mathius]

Looked closely at the gravestone and yeah, it's not Killian Jones'. Too much is wrong with it (the lettering, the old wearing away of most of it, the fact that the alleged J actually looks like another O and the alleged K may be an R). People are just seeing what they want to see because Killian dying is such a big theory, but even if he did he wouldn't be given a gravestone.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Mathius

[PixiePaws1]

Perhaps the time jump between seasons is longer than the usual 6 weeks....

I was in Stevenston for lunch today and they were setting it up for filming later this week (tomorrow?). Some things were the same and some were not.

The unmistakable difference was the clock tower. The building they use as the library does not actually have a clock tower. It has a round feature that is a couple of stories shorter and they CGI the clock tower on during post. Today, there is a full-sized replica of the clock portion of the tower sitting on the road. It's in two pieces and I doubt they are going to be putting it on the building (the pieces must be 20 feet high and they are currently sitting higgly-piggly on the road and a truck-bed). So, perhaps it is meant to have fallen off? Didn't we get a spoiler that they were building an exterior library set?

Mr. Gold's shop sign is looking decidely worn. It is dirty and is full of some rather signifcant holes. Has the shop been abandoned for a while?

The shoe store next to Rabbit Hole (in the main intersection of ttown where everything happens - shoe store/hardware store/library/gas station) is no more. It is now Harmony Mortuary. Clark's general store (I forget what it was called) is now the Lettus & Sons Candlestickmakers.

There is also some work being done beside the post office, but that might just be city workers.

Whoa!! Seriously freaky! so my guess is this what Hades did to SB....or what happens if Emma goes after Killian in the UW cos time passes differently there and by the time they come back. ..Henry is finally the age Jared is (just kidding). I think the town has declined while The Savior is slumming it in the UW..

I think what this really is....this is the UW version of SB ...

[kili]

I think what this really is....this is the UW version of SB ...

 

Grannies was  still there so it could be some kind of punishment...

 

They weren't finished dressing the streets though, so more of the shops could change (Grannies tends to keep that sign up during the filming season - other shops, have temporary Storybrooke signs installed for filming. Mr. Gold's sign seems permanent). Bo Peeps butcher shop, Any Given Sundae and Modern Fashions were still there. They Storybrooke Hardware looked pretty much the same, but the sign might have been a bit more worn. The bakery looked the same so far.

 

Maybe we are getting an "It's a Wonderful Life" episode and this is the seedy Storybrooke.

 

Are you going back for filming tomorrow?

 

Probably not. They should consult my lunch-out schedule before the set filming days ;-)

Edited November 3, 2015 by kili

[RadioGirl27]

Man, whom AREN'T they bringing back for the 100th episode?

This is what I meant in my previous post. A&E wanted to bring as much characters as possible for the 100th episode, and the Underworld storyline is their way to bring back the dead people they want back, like Pan, Cora and, probably, Cruella. I'm pretty sure they would bring back Graham and Neal if the actors were available (I doubt it). So I don't think they have a real plan behind this other than making a big 100th episode.

[Mari]

As many times as Neal has come up in the last few episodes, I think we can expect to see some incarnation of Nealfire.  I doubt it'll be permanently, but I expect to see some version of him.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Man, whom AREN'T they bringing back for the 100th episode?

It's like they're going to do a new cameo every 5 minutes. If these characters don't end up staying for the arc (which is possible), these might be random flashbacks we're looking at, al a Going Home. We know it will probably be a tribute to everything we've seen for the past 4.5 seasons. If we're getting Pan, Cora, Hercules, Megara, Hades and Hook's dad, it's going to be very heavy... like 4B territory.

 

 

I'm pretty sure they would bring back Graham and Neal if the actors were available (I doubt it). So I don't think they have a real plan behind this other than making a big 100th episode.

As many times as Neal has come up in the last few episodes, I think we can expect to see some incarnation of Nealfire.  I doubt it'll be permanently, but I expect to see some version of him.

If they can't land MRJ, I'm pretty sure Dylan Schmid would be on the table. It's safe to say the writers can take liberties with what form each undead person will take. They're not necessarily going with what the character looked like when they "died", since Robbie Kay is coming. Barbara Hershey is more identifiable as Cora and has a history of interacting with the cast. She would fit better and feel more established than Rose McGowan.  After seeing Belle return to EF in her gold dress, I'd say anything goes.

Edited November 4, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

Only Hades and, maybe, Hercules and Megara are going to stay for more than one episode. The rest would be short cameos in episode 100.

[Shanna Marie]

Of the dead returnees, it seems that most of them have some kind of tie to Hook -- Pan was critical in him turning into a pirate and held him captive for more than a century, and then he and Cora were allies (he referred to her as a friend). If Bae shows up, then he's also part of it. Who else have they mentioned?

 

Then again, everyone on this show is connected to everyone else, so you could probably find the same connections with any cast member. But if the speculation is true about Hook being in the underworld, the dead characters whose returns have been verified might be people he'd run into, and in the form he'd recognize (so older Cora instead of young Cora, Pan instead of Malcolm, and perhaps Bae instead of Neal). We just need Liam and Milah, but I doubt those actors/characters would get a lot of publicity in returning for a 100th episode.

 

Or I could have forgotten other returns and that makes my speculation very wrong.

[HoodlumSheep]

Sidney's back? In both forms? Mirror and person? All I can hope for is that he doesn't get stuck back inside the mirror or made to apologize to Regina for backstabbing her (which she completely and utterly deserved).

I'd be fine is they snagged Dylan Schmid for Baelfire. Although even if they can choose what form they're in as ghosts, I don't know if Nealfire would choose that form due to his crappy childhood and general running from the past.

But whatevs. Hoping for Cruella, Liam, James, Milah (for more possible closure). Heck, I'd love to see Abigail again or even King George (what has he been up to? Or was he not swept back to Storybrooke after Pan's curse?

I thought 3b's finale handled the slew of returning characters just fine, so I'm not too worried about a bunch of people returning (they might not all get lines, but it'll be good to see them).

Edited November 3, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[mjgchick]

Sidney's back? In both forms? Mirror and person? All I can hope for is that he doesn't get stuck back inside the mirror or made to apologize to Regina for backstabbing her (which she completely and utterly deserved).

Remember when the press release said Regina suffers a huge loss and it was Sydney's double cross? lol

 

Anyways how the hell did Emma get Hooks ring? That ring she's wearing looks exactly like the one he wore on his chopped hand. Did she still it from Gold? Y'all know she use to steal.

[HoodlumSheep]

Maybe Hook had more than one ring of that design? It might not be completely identical. He could have a stash of rings buried somewhere. He is a pirate after all.

[YaddaYadda]

He's probably the only person in Camelot who actually has an actual room at Granny's.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Only Hades and, maybe, Hercules and Megara are going to stay for more than one episode. The rest would be short cameos in episode 100.

Well... that's disappointing.

[Writing Wrongs]

Will Greg and Tamara be back, too? Please, no.

[KAOS Agent]

It seems like the characters that are returning are all villains, yes? That seems to fit with a "hellish" return since those people would be there. They can escape the idea of Neal or Graham or Liam coming back by saying those people aren't in hell and wouldn't seek out the forces of darkness to join them on their hellish crusade.

 

I suspect that there will be a significant time jump between the finale and premiere, several months at least. I guess we'll find out tomorrow. I'm most interested to see how Emma looks at this point. I think her demeanor and general look would be the most telling in terms of what has happened since the finale. Also, whether Emilie is filming or if Belle left town at the end of the finale.

[Souris]

As much as they've been mentioning Neal, I think it's inevitable he'll return for a cameo. They could stick him in Hell because he was one with the Dark One for awhile. (And also because he was a giant douchecanoe.)

Edited November 4, 2015 by Souris