Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[scenicbyway]

I don't know if we're talking about the same thing (I also have a raging headache, so maybe I'm misunderstanding). I was thinking of the ending of 5x02 after Emma was zapped back by the sword, and Rumple told her she had to pay the price.

 

I thought the price for saving Robin was her getting one step closer to being consumed by the darkness, since she liked the rush (I'm still very much WTF on this one) and the failed TLK that she initiated.

We weren't talking about the same thing...you're right he does say there's a price to pay for pulling the sword.  Perhaps someone should talk to Arthur?

 

I'm still not sure that Emma pays a price for saving Robin, even with the addition of a sparkly wrist, because we see in the sneak peek she's using her magic and still hearing Rumple's voice and voices from the dagger even when she doesn't use her magic.  The darkness is consuming her either way, I suppose that's the price for taking on the dagger.

[kili]

Emma tried to pay the price for Robin (and it looked like she did with the sparkly skin) but then something came for him anyway eventhough it was Regina who asked her to perform the magic.  What I can't figure out is that Rumple performed magic for his own uses, someone only paid the price when they asked for the magic.

 

Because of plot. They needed Robin's life in peril and for it to look like Emma's fault, so they came up with the lame-o Fury that was easily defeated. Magic only comes with a price when the plot requires it. It's the Calvinball rules of magic.

 

Now, maybe there is some event that occurs in Camelot that actually put Robin in the cross-hairs of the Fury and we only think it was his near death, but I don't expect to see any explanation about why his life was forfeit because Regina didn't give Emma a lock of her hair when all the magical healing we've seen so far seem to come for free.

 

As for the imp watching the battle between Hook and Gold, that just further makes me think the imp is somebody else. Impy may come to realize that Emma will not do his bidding, so he tries for the more easily corruptable Gold. Imp may not have the power to do much either than whisper in your ear, conceal himself or get out of the way of a fireball, but he's definitely a master manipulator. I imagine Impy wants the sword.

 

Excalibur + dagger looks too long and very badly balanced. It must be a nightmare to fight with.

[mjgchick]

Hook's new daddy is having fun with the fandom. lol I do wonder if maybe he's still alive or if he'll just be in flashbacks with Baby Killy.

[Shanna Marie]

Excalibur + dagger looks too long and very badly balanced. It must be a nightmare to fight with.

Not to mention, the wavy edge doesn't make a lot of sense. It's not even like it's serrated, just weirdly wavy. That must really throw off the balance. It looks cool, but there's no practical reason for it.

[mjgchick]

Is their a chance that the Nevengers all agreed on memory loss for the greater good? Emma's only acting out because they are trying to screw with Arthur after finding out he's no good?

[OnceUponAJen]

If the underworld is indeed part of 5B, maybe Hook meets his father there, as well as in flashbacks?

[Hookian]

Do you guys think that one of the main reasons Emma wiped the memories of everyone is because when they discovered Killian was the rightful wielder of Excalibur Arthur was trying to kill him? To protect him from Arthur, she wiped their memories, because as we saw Arthur would do anything to keep his power and this could be why Hook and Arthur were filming together.

 

This also makes Killian the rightful ruler of Camelot.

[Shanna Marie]

This also makes Killian the rightful ruler of Camelot.

Uh oh, my mental backstory machine just cranked up ... so maybe the flashback with Papa Hook won't be the abandonment scene we already know about, but will be the story about how Papa Hook was once the ruler of Camelot, and something happened to usurp him and put the sword in the stone. He fled with his sons. The abandonment was to protect them. "Jones" sounds like a good alias name for a king on the run. And that means that Killian is actually the rightful heir.

 

Though the timeline doesn't really work because they'd have to get into when the sword was broken and the Dark One dagger spun off because that seems to have happened long before Hook was born.

[YaddaYadda]

I have some serious reservations about Hook being the rightful heir of Camelot. They're playing really fast and loose with the whole sword thing. I think there's a difference between having a destiny where you're contributing to ending the darkness and the one where you're king.

 

 

 

Do you guys think that one of the main reasons Emma wiped the memories of everyone is because when they discovered Killian was the rightful wielder of Excalibur Arthur was trying to kill him? To protect him from Arthur, she wiped their memories, because as we saw Arthur would do anything to keep his power and this could be why Hook and Arthur were filming together.

 

It could be, but it doesn't add up. The curse brought everyone to Storybrooke, including Arthur and his court. If Arthur is trying to kill Hook, then wiping Hook's memory leaves him unprotected. I know Arthur doesn't have his memories either, but it hasn't stopped him from having Grif kill himself for the love of his king and Camelot, so it's not like memory loss is stopping him from wanting to rebuild his kingdom, plus he's clearly angry/upset at the lie he was told/or the things he was not told about Emma coming into Camelot. 

Edited October 15, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Mari]

Holy crap guys it's true love sword. Killian and Emma have joined together to complete Excalibur.

 

 

Wow. I guess those SQ fans shouldn't have pissed Adam off so much on Twitter.

If this ends up being a true love sword, and it's Killian Jones and Emma Swan on it?

 

Even if I didn't usually enjoy the Hook/Emma scenes, I'd want this, for the phenomenal twitter meltdown.  (The Lily Sparks review would be interesting, too.)

[Curio]

I have some serious reservations about Hook being the rightful heir of Camelot. They're playing really fast and loose with the whole sword thing. I think there's a difference between having a destiny where you're contributing to ending the darkness and the one where you're king.

 

I have some reservations, too. The main one being we all know Hook would give up the title anyways because he wouldn't want to make Emma move away from Storybrooke just so he can go play king in another realm. Unless the Camelot folks are stuck in Storybrooke forever, then Hook could be their ruler in Storybrooke, I guess.

[OnceUponAJen]

^And Charming would have to be suitably impressed! Ha!

[CatMack]

I think right now we know too little about who pulls the sword, how it's reforged, or why Killian is fighting Gold to know what it means for Killian in terms of ruling Camelot.  I can certainly understand the speculation given the sword's mythology, but it's not like Once doesn't throw that stuff out the window whenever they feel like it.  Ultimately my main hesitation is I don't really think they'd screw over Arthur that much.  I know there's a lot of hand wringing in the episode threads and elsewhere about making Arthur a villain, but I don't know that I think he is.  Not a pure hero by any means, but he's reminding me of Dark Swan in a way, or at least the way JMo and the writers keep talking about her - using dark methods to achieve goals that may not be that evil.  He seems to genuinely want what's best for his people, and we really don't know what information he's working off of to determine how to achieve that.  From what we've seen so far I don't feel like they're setting him up to die or be a total failure and I don't think we've had any spoilers that suggest otherwise.  I feel like we're going to end the arc with him still as king of Camelot, regardless of what happens with Excalibur.  

[formerlyfreedom]

I was going to put this is in the media thread, but I think the casting news of Hook's dad is a spoiler. Yes?

 

 

No. Casting news is news, not spoilers. Spoilers are actual things that happen in upcoming episodes that get out through a variety of means. Speculation is "What if..." stuff.

 

We're getting seriously off topic in here, with discussion and speculation of things from past seasons and episodes. Please, let's get back to DISCUSSION OF SPOILERS. This can have some speculation, since that can be influenced by spoilers; there is a lot of conversation happening here that should be here, however, there's as much (and possibly more) that belongs in Speculation or another topic.

 

We've allowed a lot of leeway. We don't want to lock the topic, but it will be if the off-topic conversation continues.

[YaddaYadda]

I have some reservations, too. The main one being we all know Hook would give up the title anyways because he wouldn't want to make Emma move away from Storybrooke just so he can go play king in another realm. Unless the Camelot folks are stuck in Storybrooke forever, then Hook could be their ruler in Storybrooke, I guess.

 

I don't think Hook would give a flying fig about being a king. Arthur seems to have done right by the people in Camelot (and Mary Sue Lancelot can say whatever he pleases about Arthur being a villain. You cockolded the man, so you can be on your merry way!). It must suck to feel like a fraud during your whole reign though since the sword isn't whole, and feeling bitter that a rock and a prophecy decided what your life should/will be. 

 

For all we know, Hook's and Emma's names disappear from the sword once they accomplish what it is they're supposed to accomplish and they hand the sword over to Arthur and send him on his way.

 

What I'm curious about is whether Merlin went to Hook at some point in time and was like "hey, when your girlfriend tries to pull the sword out of the stone in 200 years, stop her!" I'm pretty sure Merlin paid him a visit at some point.

[chrisvee]

Crap I hope this doesn't mean Hook and Emma are destined to have one kill the other. :(

[Rumsy4]

I think right now we know too little about who pulls the sword, how it's reforged, or why Killian is fighting Gold to know what it means for Killian in terms of ruling Camelot. ..

[Arthur] seems to genuinely want what's best for his people, and we really don't know what information he's working off of to determine how to achieve that.  From what we've seen so far I don't feel like they're setting him up to die or be a total failure and I don't think we've had any spoilers that suggest otherwise.  I feel like we're going to end the arc with him still as king of Camelot, regardless of what happens with Excalibur.  

 

Agree. Arthur reminds me of Denethor from the LotR. He was a noble steward, but by the end, he became too focussed on the honor of ruling Gondor. Arthur probably started out with noble intentions as well, but I think he's past caring about Merlin or his prophesies now. He is acting all kinds of shady, but I believe he will come round in the end to help the Nevengers. At the end of this arc, he and his people will most likely go back to Camelot (through one of the hundred portals available). 

 

Once Excalibur is reunited, we don't know how long it is going to have Emma and Killian's names on it. Maybe once the Darkness is defeated, their names disappear from the Sword, and they present it back to Arthur. Or, Excalibur will be destroyed as well. It's too soon to tell.

 

ETA: 

 

For all we know, Hook's and Emma's names disappear from the sword once they accomplish what it is they're supposed to accomplish and they hand the sword over to Arthur and send him on his way.

 

Hah! Two minds., One Thought. :-p

Edited October 16, 2015 by Rumsy4

[scenicbyway]

I think the last thing Killian would want to be is royalty or King, which might be why he ends up that way?  Just as ironic as his true love being the Dark One?

 

I just rewatched the last episode with Hook and Emma's lunch on the boat (for science) and what strikes me now that we know Hook's name ends up on Excalibur is that it was Emma on the boat vs. "the Dark One."  Emma is very clearly steering him away from discussion of the door and memory loss, which of course frustrates him and causes him to think that the Dark One is playing games when it's really his Emma trying to protect him from whatever is behind the door.  Emma must know what's really at stake -- the sword is a path to her freedom from being the Dark One, but it also has consequences for Hook. 

 

It really helps to watch earlier episodes because you can see that Emma has her reasons (just like Jenn said at Comic Con), it's just that they're slowly unfolding but the dots are connecting.

 

I have no doubt that Arthur and Camelot will be leaving town by the end of 5a, but it will be interesting to see if Emma and Killian do end up building a kingdom in Storybrooke based off of Excalibur belonging to them.  The Enchanted Forest belongs to her parents and Regina, perhaps Storybrooke is theirs?

[PixiePaws1]

Credit where it's due.. in the latest sneak peek Regina was actually showing true human concern for Emma....glad I was sitting down when I watched it or I'd have fallen over.

She was warm and kind....more of it and I may begin to think that in 50 years she might be almost worthy to kiss Emma's shoes.

[mjgchick]

Credit where it's due.. in the latest sneak peek Regina was actually showing true human concern for Emma....glad I was sitting down when I watched it or I'd have fallen over.

She was warm and kind....more of it and I may begin to think that in 50 years she might be almost worthy to kiss Emma's shoes.

She really did. More of that show.

[LizaD]

Well they already co-opted Excalibur for the DO stuff so Excalibur doesn't have to equal ruler of Camelot. It could be purely about the DO and Camelot was a red herring. We don't know if Merlin made that prophecy about Camelot and the sword or if it was a lie or if OG DO Rump made it. Rump could've easily pretended to be Merlin or Arthur made a deal with him. I think the sword is going to be more about Merlin and Nimue.

I'm betting at the end Arthur will learn that he didn't need some stupid broken sword to be the King of Camelot. He just need to do the right thing and all that cheese and his obsession with Excalibur is what ruined him.

Or if all else fails I'm sure he could squeeze out some tears and whip up a mean baked ziti. And voila, pure of heart Arthur is back in the house.

There's still the missing piece of how Merida fits in too. The actress did say she had a lot of stuff with Rump and she seems to be part of the crew.

[Souris]

Crap I hope this doesn't mean Hook and Emma are destined to have one kill the other. :(

 

I had this theory that maybe the only way to destroy the darkness is for the Excalibur hero to stab the Dark One through the heart with the rejoined sword/dagger. Merlin gave Emma some unclear warning about this in Camelot, but since he's confusing with prophecies that he gives her, she got the idea that it spelled bad news for Hook rather than her, hence the memory loss and return to SB. Or the memory loss/curse is actually unrelated.

 

I can't see Hook willingly stabbing Emma through the heart unless it gets to a point where she BEGS or COMPELS him to do it for the good of everyone. Now, since the show is unlikely to kill off Emma, Hook & Emma being the two parties in the prophecy but also True Loves would end up saving her with the power of their love. (Too cheesy?) Or Hook could then rip out his heart with that potioned Chekov's hook and give her half of his heart. Or, if the theories about Emma sharing her heart with Hook are true, then they would both die if he stabbed her in the heart -- but again with their being saved by True Love.

 

With this show and the "love is a weapon" theme for the season, True Loves having their names side by side on the rejoined Excalibur should have a deeper significance.

 

It would give new meaning to "When I stab you with my heart, you'll feel it." LOL.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Souris

[Rumsy4]

There's still the missing piece of how Merida fits in too. The actress did say she had a lot of stuff with Rump and she seems to be part of the crew.

 

I don't remember that spoiler. But then, I kind of forgot Merida the past two episodes. I'm starting to feel they just threw her in to have adventures with Red and Mulan (and Belle, apparently). 

 

I'm still squeeing over the casting news about Hook's dad. I wonder if they will also cast Little Liam to go with Baby Killy. 

[KingOfHearts]

Is anyone else genuinely interested in knowing where Henry plans to take Emma? He's only been in EF for a week or two. As a random side note, I'm kind of peeved that this is Henry's first time in FTL and they haven't really done anything with that. In fact, none of the characters have shown any reaction to being there. It's like they're on a business trip. Surely the writers can come up with more culture clash than an iPod.

 

Regina was actually respectful in the sneak peek. I liked how she poofed away without a word.

 

 

I don't remember that spoiler. But then, I kind of forgot Merida the past two episodes.

 

Kinda strange she's been gone. Meeting up with her again is going to have to be pretty random since she presumably doesn't live in Camelot. I found her to be extremely forgettable in the premiere. But somehow, even though ABC was worried, I didn't forget Robin in 4B. (But not for good reasons.) Funny how that works.

Edited October 16, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[KingOfHearts]

It's not really his first time, since he technically went to FTL in the AU finale. The characters all looked amazed at the castle when they were walking in, not to mention the ball. At this point, they're pretty used to frequent realm-jumping though and there are more important things to deal with than focusing on culture clash.

That wasn't FTL though - that was something bizarre in a book. He also wasn't there very long. Maybe I'm expecting too much from this show, but taking the entire cast to a completely different universe in a place they've never been to before (Camelot) should generate story on its own. But since the writers have said themselves this arc is not about Camelot, they're all just kind of there.

[Souris]

This is an interesting theory that the part with Killian's name is a THIRD part of Excalibur.

[KAOS Agent]

 

That wasn't FTL though - that was something bizarre in a book. He also wasn't there very long. Maybe I'm expecting too much from this show, but taking the entire cast to a completely different universe in a place they've never been to before (Camelot) should generate story on its own.

 

Henry's mom looks like she's in a pretty bad way. It would seem really off to have him happily exploring during this time. I still wonder what they did with him while they are on their horseback adventure in the garden. Henry's a total third wheel there, so maybe we will get something in this next ep.

 

As to Merida, maybe she doesn't connect anymore with the Camelot stuff, but only in the Storybrooke timeline? We know she's in this upcoming episode and there's spoilers that say she went into Gold's shop with her bow drawn in episode 5 which leads to her and Belle having adventures in the sixth episode. I don't even want to know how she's suddenly on adventures with Mulan & Red, but that's so obviously a quickly made up storyline to fill the extra hour that it will have nothing to do with anything.

[KingOfHearts]

Henry's mom looks like she's in a pretty bad way. It would seem really off to have him happily exploring during this time. I still wonder what they did with him while they are on their horseback adventure in the garden. Henry's a total third wheel there, so maybe we will get something in this next ep.

Yes. Henry's feelings and what he does with his time have been strange at best when it comes to his mom's peril. From drinking sodas at Granny's, to crushing on acCamelot girl to finding secret spots.

[PixiePaws1]

This is an interesting theory that the part with Killian's name is a THIRD part of Excalibur.

That is interesting/ I have been looking at a comparison of the area near the top of the sword when Arthur pulls it from the stone in ep 1 and the sword in the stone in Emma's basement. The blank area is considerably shortened when in the stone in SB . . .maybe Killian's name is already on it but you can't see it because it is buried.

https://pmctvline2.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/20qs-once-excalibur.jpg?w=315&h=195

[YaddaYadda]

About Merida, she will be in 5x04, and there's this suspicious line in the press release which I think points to Merida.

 

 

 

In Storybrooke, Dark Emma unleashes a secret weapon in the next phase of her plan to find the brave soul she needs to draw Excalibur from the stone

 

It's an interesting play on words.

 

ETA-

 

About the sword being in 3 pieces...maybe they have different props and they just don't look the same because this show is completely inconsistent.

 

In Arthurian legend though, Galahad put back together a sword that was broken into 3 pieces, so I guess it could be a possibility with Once.

 

Actually, anything is possible with this show.

 

About the sneak peek, yes, Regina showed some genuine worry for Emma. I'd go as far as to say she was a bit motherly towards her. I thought it was funny that she was standing there while Snowing were fighting. I'm sure it must've been eerie for her to witness a fight between those two. (what? they fight?)

Edited October 16, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[chrisvee]

Hm. Was Arthur's name ever on the sword? I just assumed the sword magically lengthened to include Hook's name once he pulled it from the stone. Are there any spoilers about how it's removed from the stone? I just assumed that while Dark!Emma is off training Gold using Merida, that Hook breaks in with Outlaw!Queen and pulls it right out of the stone lol. But why Gold would be fighting him...I'm so confused.

[kili]

Yes. Henry's feelings and what he does with his time have been strange at best when it comes to his mom's peril. From drinking sodas at Granny's, to crushing on acCamelot girl to finding secret spots.

If Henry waits until neither of his Moms are in peril, the town isn't being threatened or a monster isn't chasing people down Main Street, he's never going to get to do any of those things. His situation normal is when doom is looming.

[YaddaYadda]

I don't think they find the sword. I think after the ship encounter, and Hook's questions, Emma will probably magic some gizmo to hide her basement. I think they'll find a whole bunch of dreamcatchers though to set up 5x05.

 

But if the sword is calling to him, then he'll become even more relentless. 

 

I have to say that I'm really happy with all these new interactions between the characters this season. One thing I really hate is for people to stand in the same room and ignore each other.

[scenicbyway]

If Henry waits until neither of his Moms are in peril, the town isn't being threatened or a monster isn't chasing people down Main Street, he's never going to get to do any of those things. His situation normal is when doom is looming.

Well and Adam and Eddy have said this first romance will be heartbreaking...aren't all first romances heart breaking for at least one of the parties involved?  I think we might be overdramatizing how important Violet will be and how affected Henry will be.  I do like that they've given him a first love, it fits with the romance theme this season.

 

I would like to see Hook and Hood giving him tips since we've already seen Charming offer advice.  It looks like the next opportunity for Henry/Violet interaction is the festival, where Hook looks upset so maybe we'll see Robin give him a push.

Edited October 16, 2015 by scenicbyway

[Souris]

In Arthurian legend though, Galahad put back together a sword that was broken into 3 pieces, so I guess it could be a possibility with Once.

 

IF Killian is playing a pseudo-Galahad role, then him being taken to the Underworld would be fitting. Galahad was taken to heaven after finding the Grail.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm not super down with the whole Underworld thing because they're going to CGI the hell out of it. But I think the show is making Excalibur their equivalent of the Holy Grail. I mean they've built a whole quest about making the sword whole (again). Should be interesting.

[kili]

I would like to see Hook and Hood giving him tips since we've already seen Charming offer advice.

Hood should not give anybody advice on romance. The dude has a very questionable dating history. "Try stealing her father's horse". " "Maybe you'll get lucky and she will have slaughtered villages and children. You can use that to flirt with - call it bold and audacious". "She doesn't want to talk to you? Wait until you find her somewhere romantic, like her dead father's crypt, and seduce her." "Your in love with somebody else? Who cares? She's not around. Get it on with the lady you no longer love because she cared to be here."

[HoodlumSheep]

Still basking in all the CS/Papa Hook goodness. Sipping on the bitter tears of the anti's. The tears taste delicious. I'm happy that CS/Hook is getting some focus. And contrary to belief, it's not turning into the "CS/Hook show." By the end of the arc, everyone's screen time will be decently spread. I'm sure spoilers regarding the other characters will come out soon.

Anyways, now that's off my chest...

I'm surprisingly fine with the Henry/Violet stuff. The place she probably shows him in the script tease probably will be where we see Emma and Hook end up. Hopefully the tragic stuff isn't too tragic. Maybe it'll end up just being an emotional goodbye as she heads back to Camelot by the end of the arc??

Concerning the sword length/balance stuff: How long is David's broadsword (? I don't know my swords very well) compared to the whole Excalibur? Aren't broadswords usually on the longer side and they're wide-ish. The narrowness of the blade might make it look a little longer than it actually is?

[sharky]

I'm not super down with the whole Underworld thing because they're going to CGI the hell out of it. But I think the show is making Excalibur their equivalent of the Holy Grail. I mean they've built a whole quest about making the sword whole (again). Should be interesting.

Eh, I actually don't mind the idea of going to the Underworld. They spent a whole season on a sound stage with potted planted. Just turn the lights out and it'll be fine.

 

I'm kind of liking the Henry/Violet thing since it at least gives him a bit of a storyline and justifies his existence in Camelot.

[Souris]

We might go crazy for spoilers though if they are always in studio. 

 

Especially if it looks like Hook or another character is dead -- we'd have very little info about who was filming when. Brutal.

 

Close-up of Excalibur shows two people on a horse. (They look like they're tandem jousting.) And of course we have the spoilers of CaptainSwan on a horse.

[RadioGirl27]

I really hate the idea of the Underworld, so they are probably going there. At least, I hope is not Hook or Emma the one dragged there so they can stay together. Those poor babies really deserve a bit of happiness.

 

Close-up of Excalibur shows two people on a horse. (They look like they're tandem jousting.) And of course we have the spoilers of CaptainSwan on a horse.

I don't know if that has any mean, but it looks like one of the most famous of the Templar Seals, the one with the Two Riders.

[mjgchick]

I think people are going to be very disappointed about Hook being a King. lol

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'm not super down with the whole Underworld thing because they're going to CGI the hell out of it. But I think the show is making Excalibur their equivalent of the Holy Grail. I mean they've built a whole quest about making the sword whole (again). Should be interesting.

The Underworld might be interesting if it's different from what we'd expect. Maybe it's a mental realm that's constructed from the memories of your life, sort of like a physical interpretation of an incorporeal world. But that may be too Star Trek-y. There's also the question of whether the Netherworld has any bearing.

[RadioGirl27]

I think people are going to be very disappointed about Hook being a King. lol

Yeah, this is why I'm always saying that people has to lower the expectations.

[YaddaYadda]

I don't know if that has any mean, but it looks like one of the most famous of the Templar Seals, the one with the Two Riders.

 

It does, plus the sword has two Templar crosses on it, so Templar seal makes sense. Plus there was the whole reference to the burning bush when Arthur was talking about the torch they were going to use.

 

I think people are going to be very disappointed about Hook being a King.

Merlin's prophecy names Arthur by name, I think, for the one who to pull the sword out of the stone, if we are to go by Kay's rant in 5x01. Besides, if Hook is the one to pull the sword out of the stone, he is doing it in Storybrooke, not in Camelot. Those are two different realms. The action is happening in two completely different places.

 

I think the most interesting thing that might come out of this is who really made the sword and who ended up breaking it into two pieces (I don't know about the 3 pieces, since the sword is magical and might be able to refit itself). Excalibur technically belongs to the Lady of the Lake, who is likely going to be Nimue. Maybe Merlin breaks the sword and controls her with the dagger and plants the rest of the sword in the stone to make sure she can't pull it out.

 

The sword is like the stupid hat from last season. 

 

The hat needed the heart of someone who knew the pre-Dark One person, pulling the sword out of the stone requires a hero, but apparently not just any hero since Storybrooke is crawling with heroes these days.

 

Arthur's line to David about what makes someone a hero is key, I think. I also really liked that line.

[mjgchick]

Question, does this mean Emma was always suppose to be the Dark One as well as the Savior? If so then if Killian's name is on the sword then was he and Emma suppose to meet this whole time? I always liked that they met by accident but now knowing all of this sounds like they were always meant to cross paths. Plus Cora having Hook pretend to be a blacksmith now makes it seem like she always knew they would meet the Savior.

[scenicbyway]

Question, does this mean Emma was always suppose to be the Dark One as well as the Savior? If so then if Killian's name is on the sword then was he and Emma suppose to meet this whole time? I always liked that they met by accident but now knowing all of this sounds like they were always meant to cross paths. Plus Cora having Hook pretend to be a blacksmith now makes it seem like she always knew they would meet the Savior.

I think Adam and Eddy hinted at one of the Cons that they always intended for Emma to go dark, it was part of the plan from the beginning.  Do we think Killian's name is on the sword in Camelot?  I haven't gotten that impression.  The thing is, Emma's name was put on the dagger in Storybrooke so it would make sense that Killian's is put on the sword when it's deposited in Storybrooke.

 

Here's what I don't understand, if the sword is about true love....Rumple's name has been on the dagger forever and I assume that Arthur's has been on sword?  Maybe it's their true of love power that united them on the sword?   

[Shanna Marie]

Here's what I don't understand, if the sword is about true love....Rumple's name has been on the dagger forever and I assume that Arthur's has been on sword?  Maybe it's their true of love power that united them on the sword?

This may be one of those "impossible conditions" things that come up in fairy tales -- in order to do whatever (kill the Darkness, reunite the sword, etc.), the Dark One and the holder of the sword have to have true love for each other. And that'll never happen because the person who draws Excalibur has to be a hero, and the Dark One will never really love a hero, and a hero couldn't possibly love a Dark One. They're enemies! It even seems like Arthur wants to get the Dark One just to get the dagger to complete the sword, and that can't happen without him loving the Dark One. But now we have this rare case where it can actually happen.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I think Adam and Eddy hinted at one of the Cons that they always intended for Emma to go dark, it was part of the plan from the beginning.

That sounds a bit odd. Emma has never stroke me in S1 as capable of going dark. I'm more than positive that if that were in their minds so early in the game, they would have done it by now.

 

 

Here's what I don't understand, if the sword is about true love....Rumple's name has been on the dagger forever and I assume that Arthur's has been on sword?  Maybe it's their true of love power that united them on the sword?

I'm thinking it has more to do with Nimue.

Edited October 16, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

Jen said in one of the interviews, and it might've been at NYCC that it was sort of in the plans since season 3 to make Emma dark, they just didn't know how they would do it. 

 

About Excalibur, I don't know that it's a "true love" sword per se as much as the thing that's supposed to defeat the darkness if it's in the right hands, with the names of the people who are supposed to do it? 

 

I think I posted a few pages back after the whole hero thing came out in the promo about the person who can pull the sword out of the stone, that if it works the same as the hat, then it will require someone who turned away from the darkness, the same way Anna did. That's what Rumple needed to unlock the hat.