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Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!


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I don't think we ever saw a body. We just know Cora impersonated him.

 

Exactly.  Cora was a lying liar who lied all the time, so of course she wasn't telling the truth when she claimed to have killed him years earlier.

 

As for how she knew about his connection to Snow, according to the two idiots (Adam & Eddie, not Snow & David), anyone who uses a glamour spell to impersonate another person automatically downloads that person's memories and knowledge, so Cora would have known about the connection the moment she took Lancelot's form.

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The quality it's terrible, but you can hear pretty clearly Emma telling Regina "I saved you, now you save me" while she seems to be giving her the dagger. So, yeah, as I said yesterday, I would believe the "Regina is not the new Savior" when I see it.

 

I have added a link for a better quality promo in the Spoilers Only thread

Edited by RadioGirl27
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Emma actually gives Regina the dagger! ! Freaking hell!!! Clearly Emma has gone totally bat shit crazy!!! Ahh...I need to hit a wall and break something. Just NO...get out the damn chainsaw Emma...this is the worthless ungrateful bitch who calls you a 'problem'.

Just Nooooooooo....!

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The quality it's terrible, but you can hear pretty clearly Emma telling Regina "I saved you, now you save me" while she seems to be giving her the dagger. So, yeah, as I said yesterday, I would believe the "Regina is not the new Savior" when I see it.

 

Remember when one of the streaming companies accidently put a promo up featuring Regina using white magic to stop Zelena and Adam told everybody to calm down because that what was not what was happening in the scene when it turned out to be totally what was happening in that scene....A&E are like Cora...lying liars who lie.

 

In other news, I need to borrow a table from my neighbour because I need another one to  flip.

 

Entrusting Regina with the dagger, why? Why not rip off your own shadow and have it hide the dagger. What does she want Regina to do with the dagger? Regina generally takes the selfish road, so why does she trust her now. There is a big line of people I would trust first.

 

As for how she knew about his connection to Snow, according to the two idiots (Adam & Eddie, not Snow & David), anyone who uses a glamour spell to impersonate another person automatically downloads that person's memories and knowledge

 

I watch a show about fairy tales come to life and even I think that is ridiculous. How does that even work? I could see if you were glamouring up somebody using Polyjuice potion and a piece of their hair, that could happen (since you have something of them), but just Glamour spelling gives you their live's worth of memories? Although it lends another interesting twist to Rumple glamouring himself to be Hook. Was he more uspet getting the memories of Milah loving Hook or Bae bonding with Hook? Will this lead to more problems in the future?

 

I still think Cora was just a clever con-person who picks up on cues quickly.  It was either a happy accident that Snow knew Lancelot or Cora had spies telling her what her step-grand-daughter was up to.

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Bleh!

Honestly that line screams, "you freakin' owe me," more than some romantic nonsense to me. I don't see how that or giving the dagger to someone who can decide to "unplug" her at anytime is considered romantic.

With that and the promos, they really aren't showing most of the main cast for some reason.

*crossing my fingers that Regina begins to abuse the daggers powers, or she loses it; proving that she is incapable of protecting the dagger*

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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I was going to say something pretty nasty about that promo, but in the spirit of trying to be more positive and not jumping to conclusions (and also saving my keyboard from being smashed to pieces), I'm going to post this instead:

 

Adult Hot Chocolate Recipe. This is what I will be drinking during the premiere. But instead of chocolate drizzle, it'll be cinnamon on top. I have a feeling I'll be consuming way too many of these on September 27...

Edited by Curio
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Remember when one of the streaming companies accidently put a promo up featuring Regina using white magic to stop Zelena and Adam told everybody to calm down because that what was not what was happening in the scene when it turned out to be totally what was happening in that scene....A&E are like Cora...lying liars who lie.

Oh yeah. Or when Adam said that the cliffhanger from the season 4 finale hadn't been leaked even if the pics with Emma holding the dagger were everywhere. The TVLine interview was them trying to calm the fans that are annoyed with all the talk about Regina being the Savior and the lack of spoilers about Hook, and they did it with some blatant lies.

 

Bleh!

Honestly that line screams, "you freakin' owe me," more than some romantic nonsense to me. I don't see how that or giving the dagger to someone who can decide to "unplug" her at anytime is considered romantic.

Only the SQ shippers are seeing it as romantic.

 

I hate it because I hate Regina, I hate the forced friendship between Emma and Regina that it's based in abuse and victim-blaming and I hate that the relationships I care about (Hook/Emma, Henry/Emma, Snowing/Emma) are going to be sidelined once again for more Emma/Regina. The premiere always hints the finale, so Emma asking Regina to save her in the premiere means Regina saving Emma in the finale.

 

With that and the promos, they really aren't showing most of the main cast for some reason.

Because except for Emma, Regina and Rumple, the rest of the main cast is not important. With all the stuff that seem to be going on in the premiere if Hook, Henry, Belle, Snow, Charming, Robin and Zelena combined have more than  five minutes of screentime I would be surprised.

Edited by RadioGirl27
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In other news, I need to borrow a table from my neighbour because I need another one to  flip.

There's always the local park.  

 

We're heading into fall and winter where I live.  That means picnics will become rarer, and we won't be depriving anyone.

 

:)

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Staying on the positive train...

 

You know what's great about Emma and Hook? She doesn't even have to ask him to save her. It's just a given that he'll travel the realms and go through time to make sure she's okay. They don't need anvil-dropped lines of dialogue because she knows he'll do it. Yay subtlety!

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New promo. now with good quality

An advertisement for the Heroes reboot played beforehand. I glanced and saw Robbie Kay, thinking they involved Peter Pan in the promo somehow!

 

That Swan Queen moment is so ew. I wish we could stop with the whole, "Emma and Regina are responsible for the other's happiness". How many times do they have to switch sides for it to be even?

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Ok, so...

 

We don't know what happens right before Emma says what she says, but she's not begging Regina to save her, she's telling her. That's not the tone of someone who sounds particularly happy if you ask me. I'd even say that Emma looks a bit pissy.

 

Who knows what Regina said to her before.

 

Even Regina's biggest apologist, Snow looks like she might be in her face about this. Unless she's talking to Zelena. But Emma and Snow's demeanor are similar.

Edited by YaddaYadda
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I wonder if this'll be the season where I become an angry-tweeter. Obviously I wouldn't direct any of it towards the writers or actors (I actually try to follow common internet courtesy)

There's just so many things I'd love to say, but I won't. I refuse to lower myself to internet troll standards.

But yes, I interpret the Emma and Regina scene as Emma subtlety (or not so subtlety) reminding Regina that she owes her. Maybe Regina isn't cooperating well with everyone else, so Emma's barking at her to get her act together and help fix things.

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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Maybe my memory is bad, but have we seen any spoiler pics of the dagger recently? Does the timeline go:

 

Hook grabs it on Main Street → Snow shows Grey Emma her name on the dagger in Camelot/Enchanted Forest → Emma gives Regina the dagger?

 

If so, is that why Emma was attempting to break into Regina's vault during that dreamcatcher episode? Because that's where Regina stashed the dagger? Will we see Emma use "love as a weapon" to convince Hook that he needs to break into the vault and give Emma back the dagger, which will probably cause disastrous results?

Edited by Curio
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Emma's line to Regina doesn't bother me, because it sounds suspiciously like, "You owe me, bitch." And boy, does she ever. This isn't the first (or second, or third) time Emma's saved her life.

 

I'm actually stoked for this season. I know it won't ever be as well-written as it should be, but all the spoilers and BTS pics we have thus far are pretty compelling to me. 

 

Something I noticed about the promo -- I think Zelena might not escape her cell because of Hook, but because of Robin instead. You could see he was telling her something happened to Emma, and we know she holds him hostage at some point later in the episode. Maybe Hook won't be given the idiot ball after all!

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Could it be filmed at the same location?

It does seem as though there's one beach in all the realms. The beach in Camelot, the beach in Neverland, and the beach in the Enchanted Forest all are as one beach.

 

I suspect there will be some angry tweeting going on, though I'll try to remain civil about it. Actually, I've revived a geeky pop culture blog I've had for a while but haven't posted regularly on, and I'm about to start posting OUAT rewatch commentaries, as well as trying to review new episodes. Oh, but there will be snark. I'm almost kind of hoping it does suck enough to give me something to snark about.

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I'm actually excited about the new season. Not even that little blip is taking my excitement down. It does sound like Emma is saying "You owe me" in which she does, hello. In fact Regina owes her way more than just whatever Emma's asking her to do.

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Actually, I've revived a geeky pop culture blog I've had for a while but haven't posted regularly on, and I'm about to start posting OUAT rewatch commentaries, as well as trying to review new episodes. Oh, but there will be snark. I'm almost kind of hoping it does suck enough to give me something to snark about.

 

Oh, please do Shanna Marie. (I wouldn't be too worried about the show not sucking. That's just a part of its DNA now.)

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I hope Emma makes a million copies of that stupid dagger and gives everyone a copy and a "personalized" speech.

 

 

so seeing them together would be neat.

Not with the founders of the Church of Victimology. Nothing good has ever come out of sharing breathing space with Woegina. Hook needs to be left alone. He's one of the endangered species left that hasn't had their soul and personality removed by St. Succubus.

 

I wonder if Arthur removing Excalibur freed Merlin somehow. And that's the point we see him conveniently hop on over to play Usher with kid Emma or it triggered something that lead to their meeting. Cause otherwise the premiere would have 4 timepoints: kid Emma/Usher, Arthur's flashback, Camelot with Storybrooke crew and DS in Storybrooke.

 

I'm also not convinced Rump is just Emma's imaginary traveling buddy. I think they're splitting up the DO part of Rump and the non-DO part. The DO part came out of the vault with Emma and if he could join up with the comatose body, he's good to go. And yes it sounds wacky but if Rump can absorb Neal's "spirit" or whatever the hell it was, this would be along the same line.

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Something interesting I noticed about the new promo.

 

When they show the clip of Snow in the mayor's office saying "We are going to find my daughter," that's actually two separate audio clips spliced together. (We are going to/find my daughter.) It's Snow saying "We are going to..." in the mayor's office, and then "...find my daughter" is a completely new audio clip that might be from a different part of the episode. So it could be the case where Snow says "We are going to make sure you keep your happy ending, Regina, because that's all that matters on this show anymore" in the mayor's office. And then later on in the episode, she tells Hook, "I know you will find my daughter because you've done it numerous times before, so we're just going to ignore you until Episode 10 when we need you to be useful again."

Edited by Curio
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Could it be filmed at the same location?

 

They are both filmed in the area around Vancouver, but I think they are at least meant to be different locations. The Liam/Killian arrival scene is filmed around a little bay where the Camelot one would at least be looking in a slightly differen direction. Based on the hills/mountains in the background, I would guess that Neverland is somewhere in the Valley (up the river) and the Camelot scene really looks like it is further up towards Squamish/Whistler on the Coast. 

 

It does seem as though there's one beach in all the realms. The beach in Camelot, the beach in Neverland, and the beach in the Enchanted Forest all are as one beach

 

The Enchanted Forrest Beach (where we see Cora and Hook and a few other times) is Iona Beach off Richmond. The beaches in Storybrooke tend to be in Stanley Park and Gary Point Park (just off Stevenston). But, yes, it's all parks around Vancouver so they are going to look a lot alike.

 

I hope Emma makes a million copies of that stupid dagger and gives everyone a copy and a "personalized" speech.

 

That would be funny. She can have a big backpack full of them.  She's saved everybody at least once, so, why not? I envision her handing them out like Sandra Bullock handed out her first wedding invitations in "While You Were Sleeping" .  Although, Emma can make them all think they have the one, true dagger until they all get together to compare notes. "You have the dagger? I have the dagger!"

Edited by kili
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I am not surprised that Regina has the Dagger, but I am not happy that Emma hands it to her. Really, woman, how stupid can you be?? This Emma/Regina friendship angle is really so dumb! I do agree though that Emma seems to be implying that Regina owes her. However, this does portend that Regina will be the one to ultimately "save" Emma one way or the other. The finale reflects the premiere. I'm trying to remain positive, but it's not like we can expect A&E to not give Regina a prominent role all of a sudden. 

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the way I look at all of this is simple. Regina is the only one who isn't emotionally invested in this. Sure, she and Emma are sort of friends and they co-parent Henry and Emma trusts her enough, but she is not emotionally invested, whereas Snowing and Hook are. We haven't heard a peep out of David so far. Hook tried to summon Emma and Mary Margaret seems to be channeling bandit!Snow. 

 

Hook is the boyfriend and Snowing are the parents and i'm sure they're all distraught over wanting to find Emma, finding Emma, watching her descent into this whole darkness thing. 

 

So Regina makes sense.

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Not watching the promo this year.

But Emma has already asked her loved one to save her, so I decided to stay positive about it. Only, hope that Emma is really a little bitchy in the way she asked.

Honestly, more spoiler makes it look like Regina is super involve less I worry.

there only one thing that A and E loves more than Regina and it is their super secret twist and everyone (ER, SQ, CS and UglyD) is sure Regina will have the big moment.

So, even if originally, that's what they planned (because Regina!!) they will change it slightly. So they still will claim to have surprised everyone.

Worst scenario Regina is strongly involve, but Merida gives the last speeches before Emma sacrifices herself!

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Honestly, more spoiler makes it look like Regina is super involve less I worry.

there only one thing that A and E loves more than Regina and it is their super secret twist and everyone (ER, SQ, CS and UglyD) is sure Regina will have the big moment.

So, even if originally, that's what they planned (because Regina!!) they will change it slightly. So they still will claim to have surprised everyone.

Worst scenario Regina is strongly involve, but Merida gives the last speeches before Emma sacrifices herself!

You have a good point--if A&E are aware at all of how the entire fandom seem to think Regina's probably going to solve the Emma/Dark One issue, they might pull a surprise and have someone like Merida do it.

 

They love Regina, but they love their "surprises" even more, and since Regina's officially a hero, now, she might get slightly less adoring writing.

 

(OF course, this means we probably have to start watching out for Zelena is awesome! writing, instead.)

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I hate it because I hate Regina, I hate the forced friendship between Emma and Regina that it's based in abuse and victim-blaming and I hate that the relationships I care about (Hook/Emma, Henry/Emma, Snowing/Emma) are going to be sidelined once again for more Emma/Regina. The premiere always hints the finale, so Emma asking Regina to save her in the premiere means Regina saving Emma in the finale

 

 

Exactly. It's not about SQ. It's about Regina being shoved front & center into every arc at the expense of character who SHOULD be front & center in that arc instead. And it's about the forced, toxic Emma/Regina friendship that isn't earned and makes no realistic sense.

 

I wonder if this'll be the season where I become an angry alcoholic.

 

LOL! Thank you for the laugh! Sorry about your liver, though.

 

If so, is that why Emma was attempting to break into Regina's vault during that dreamcatcher episode? Because that's where Regina stashed the dagger? Will we see Emma use "love as a weapon" to convince Hook that he needs to break into the vault and give Emma back the dagger, which will probably cause disastrous results?

 

Emma steals the vault key & returns it later as a peace offering. So no actual breaking into the vault, it doesn't sound like.

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I went back and good long look at the new trailer and I no longer think Emma gave Regina the dagger (thank freaking goodness! !! ) I think Regina was already holding the dagger because she summoned Emma once they reach the EF. I am guessing Killian couldn't handle the disappointment of failing again ....??

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I think Regina having the dagger makes sense. Like others have said, she will try to save Emma because she "owes" her and for Henry's sake, but she is not so invested that she wouldn't also be willing to take her out if she becomes dangerous, unline Snowing and Hook. Plus, let's not forget she's the only one with magic! If Snowing and Hook had it, it would be laughably simple for a villain or for Emma herself to take it back whenever they wanted, like Rumple did with Belle all the time. Regina has the magical means to at least put some magical protection on it. Furthermore, we've heard Regina is really not stoked about having to save Emma, so a scene when Emma is like "You owe me, buddy" also makes sense.

I get disliking the SQ friendship, I do as well, but for once this development makes sense from both plot and character point of view, IMO. I've thought about it, and putting aside my immense dislike for her, Regina SHOULD have the dagger.

 

EDIT: also, look at Emma's expression during the scene. That's a "bitch, please" face if I've ever seen one.

Edited by Serena
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Magic or not magic, Regina is as vulnerable, if not more, as the others. If a villain gets Robin or Roland, she would give him the dagger without a second thought. At least, Hook or Charming would be ready to die protecting it. And, there is the little detail that if they get to the point where she has to kill Emma with the dagger, she would become the Dark One.

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Magic or not magic, Regina is as vulnerable, if not more, as the others. If a villain gets Robin or Roland, she would give him the dagger without a second thought. At least, Hook or Charming would be ready to die protecting it. And, there is the little detail that if they get to the point where she has to kill Emma with the dagger, she would become the Dark One.

I think anyone of the group (Snowing and Hook) would give up the dagger if some villain were threatening to kill someone (Roland, Henry, etc). Regina at least has the strenght to protect it against an attack.

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They love Regina, but they love their "surprises" even more, and since Regina's officially a hero, now, she might get slightly less adoring writing.

 

She had her 'redemption' and is BFFs with Emma, now she gets to play Savior.  It's all about poor Regina and her happy ending.

 

(OF course, this means we probably have to start watching out for Zelena is awesome! writing, instead.)

 

As if the garbage pregnancy plot wasn't bad enough.

 

I bet all those who hated The Frozen arc wishes the same writers who wrote for 4A was writing for this mess now. lol Their was hardly any Regina. The only upside is...Mirelda would probably be the Anna of 5A.

 

My problem is that it basically turned into a Frozen cosplay while our other main characters were sidelined.

Edited by Free
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I think Regina having the dagger makes sense. Like others have said, she will try to save Emma because she "owes" her and for Henry's sake, but she is not so invested that she wouldn't also be willing to take her out if she becomes dangerous, unline Snowing and Hook. Plus, let's not forget she's the only one with magic!

 

 

The dagger isn't a gift to anyone who holds it that isn't the Dark One. It's a horrible omen. 

 

Merlin, this all powerful wizard, who forged the dagger to control the Dark One ended up losing the dagger. How does that happen? 

 

Belle had the "dagger" in 4A, we saw what happened, Rumple came back and tricked her into giving him the dagger back by making himself look like someone she trusted. Rumbelle fell completely apart because of that dagger.

 

Hook calls it a cursed blade. He doesn't call it that for shits and giggles.

 

IF Emma has given the dagger to Regina, then she's taken the burden off the people she loves.  Regina is not emotional (if she is emotional at all) about the situation like Hook or Snowing might be. 

 

But this dagger is like a hot potato. It will very likely change hands, I wouldn't be surprised if it ended in Merlin's hands eventually.

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It doesn't matter who ends up with the dagger. It's all about the symbolism of Emma giving Regina the dagger, to prove she trusts her more than her family and that Regina is the only one who can be trusted because she's SO much better than everybody else. A&E said it would be such an emotional thing. Such BFFs! Such love! Such devotion! Of course, I find the symbolism disgusting that Emma submits herself to selfish narcissist Regina and gives her power over her, but who cares what Emma fans think on this show?

 

While I was sleeping, I came up with a theory to fit the "love is a dangerous weapon" theme. Someone (Regina, cuz let's be real) will use the dreamcatcher or the dagger or some new magical item to suck all the love out of everybody. That love will then be used to defeat the darkness once and for all. It'll be a repeat of the Shattered Sight spell, only everyone will be depressed and emo. Regina will go back to being the Evil Queen, and that will be the midseason cliffhanger. Then ep 100 will be everyone getting their love restored.

 

That would technically fit Adam's assertion that it's not "binary A or B" that saves Emma, but Regina will still get all the credit for saving Emma because she held the magical McGuffin and worked the spell -- just like with the hat and the fairies.

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It doesn't matter who ends up with the dagger. It's all about the symbolism of Emma giving Regina the dagger, to prove she trusts her more than her family and that Regina is the only one who can be trusted because she's SO much better than everybody else. A&E said it would be such an emotional thing. Such BFFs! Such love! Such devotion! Of course, I find the symbolism disgusting that Emma submits herself to selfish narcissist Regina and gives her power over her, but who cares what Emma fans think on this show?

Yes, they said it was an emotional thing, but in the exact same sentence they also said it was practical because the person chosen doesn't have as much emotion and feelings at stake as others. Regina is getting the dagger because she doesn't care about Emma as much as Snowing and Hook, not because she's better than them. Emma is not submitting herself, she's aware that she could become dangerous to others and she needs someone ruthless enough to take her out if it happens.

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It's interesting because just like a week ago or something like that Adam had mentioned how they had a storyline for Mulan figured out, but they didn't know when they'd find the time or right place to actually do it. Huh.

Here's the wikipedia page to nimue:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_of_the_Lake

Maybe the spell book that got photoshopped into the camelot graphic (posted in the media thread) belongs to nimue rather than merlin.

Or I wonder if Emma will double as Nimue for stuff.

Maybe Nimue is the original Dark One? I could see Once doing that. She and Merlin are in love, she turns evil or something. He tethers her to the dagger and banishes her or something. Or she steals the dagger from him. ???

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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Dang they bringing back Ruby now Mulan?

 

Can they please have an intervention with Emma and tell her that there are way cooler chicks out there Emma could be BFF-ing it up with? And then Emma, Snow, Ruby, and Mulan can start an awesome badass ladies drinking night once a week at The Rabbit Hole. Belle can join once she gets her act together and stops pining over her abusive husband.

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Emma is not submitting herself, she's aware that she could become dangerous to others and she needs someone ruthless enough to take her out if it happens.

 

But that makes no sense to give her the dagger to take her out with, because then Regina would become the Dark One, and that would be a TERRIBLE thing. That's exactly why Regina should be the LAST person to have the dagger.

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