Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Shanna Marie]

Payoff, hmmm. She keeps using that word. I do not think it means what she thinks it means (since I'm one of those longtime fans and I know how this works).

[Souris]

Yeah, I'm beginning to think she's overexcitable and overly thrilled to be working on the show. Which, you know, good for her, but let's manage expectations, shall we?

Edited September 1, 2015 by Souris

[Curio]

Heh. Well, I wouldn't necessarily say that tweeting, "We're on the mega awesome, epically sized mid-season finale story. So many great payoffs for longtime fans." is overhyping. She works for the show; therefore, she has to promote it as being the best thing ever. We don't get mad at the actors when they hype up episodes as being awesome, so we shouldn't get mad at the writers who do the same. I'll take her tweets over that other guy any day.

 

But, yeah...I'll believe "payoff" when I see it.

 

Edit: Just realized she used the word "epically sized." Are they making this episode two hours long? Or a two-parter?

Edited September 1, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

Here's a question, what are the payoffs long time fans want exactly? Because from where I'm sitting (standing, lying, contemplating fictional life), everyone wants different things for the characters they love, the couples they ship and so on.  Different people want different things.

 

I want Emma's relationship with her mother to be fixed and Hook to have an actual backstory and for Belle to be free of Rumple and for the writers to stop flip flopping with that character and make a damn decision already and for Regina to die a horrible death and for the ground to split open and swallow Zelena because those Mills women are just...and I also want Ruby to come back.  I also want conversations around the kitchen sink.

 

 

 

Edit: Just realized she used the word "epically sized." Are they making this episode two hours long? Or a two-parter?

I'm down with a two-parter. For one, the mid-season finale ends with episode 10. They couldn't even complete their stories properly last year and that was with an extra hour they completely wasted for episode 4x08. And as usual, there seems to be a lot of stuff going on and they're promoting Merida a lot and a lot more than Camelot, so I'm guessing they might be banking on her to draw some viewership.

Edited September 1, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Curio]

Here's a question, what are the payoffs long time fans want exactly? Because from where I'm sitting (standing, lying, contemplating fictional life), everyone wants different things for the characters they love, the couples they ship and so on. Different people want different things.

 

Right? The only "longterm" payoffs I want to see as a fan who's stuck around this thing since Season 1 and still actually remember Season 1 is: Emma finally learning about Regina murdering Graham and getting pissed, Snow and Emma's friendship finally getting back to how awesome it was before Emma broke the curse, Rumple being taken back a notch from "Scene-Chewing Season 4 Moustache Twirling Villain" to "Subtle Season 1 Manipulative and Mysterious Bastard," more scenes where the characters are allowed to have fun with each other and get drinks at The Rabbit Hole like normal human beings, and the return of neglected background characters like Ruby and Whale.

[retrograde]

I'm trying to think of stories from early on that aren't tied up. The whereabouts of Mulan or Jefferson? Just about everything to do with Tamara and Greg Mendell (dear god no)? Whatever the deal is with Blue?

[KingOfHearts]

 

Just realized she used the word "epically sized."

It could mean it involves a lot of characters or stories at a very high scale.

 

Well darn it, now she's got me intrigued. I don't believe the "longterm payoff" she speaks of, but at least something has to happen remotely interesting... at least to some fans. The next episode after that is their 100th, so it be might setup for something major.

Edited September 1, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

Adam needs to have a talk with the new writer. She's overhyping this show way too much. And promising more than A&E have ever delivered on. I'll believe the payoff when I see it.

Yeah, her tweets are starting to get ridiculous, and the reaction of some fans even more ridiculous (the SQ shippers are sure she is talking about them as they consider themselves the only longtime fans).

 

This show is famous for the lack of payoff, so I would believe it when I see it. And, really, this fandom is so fragmented that it’s absolutely impossible to please every faction.

 

The show is so different from season 1 that, at this point, it's impossible to give closure to any of the unsolved situations from season 1, like Graham's murder, Henry's abuse or the fallout of Emma breaking the curse. All of them would involve the characters reacting realistically to the things Regina has done, and we know that this would never happen. The only thing we are dragging from season 1 that I can see happening is a TLK between Rumple and Belle (only writting it makes me wanna puke).

Edited September 1, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Curio]

Since I'm usually extremely disappointed by whatever "payoff" the writers choose to resolve, here are my guesses for what will happen in 5A's finale:

• Regina, as the New Savior, will be the one to save Dark Emma and turn her back to normal. They hug for the first time and call each other best friends.
• Emma will barely interact with her parents. But if she does, it will be a quick hug resolution to whatever thing the Charmings inevitably fucked up during 5A.
• The Charmings will announce they have another baby coming on the way. They'll name this one August.
• If Hook has any kind of plot at all, it will be resolved in 23 seconds.
• Rumple will become the Dark One again and Belle will take him back anyways.
• The majority of the hour will be spent on the Camelotians and their sendoff will be about as rushed as Frozen's was.
• Henry will give Violet a goodbye kiss and vow to try and make a long distance/multi-world relationship work with her.
• Whatever villain is set up for next season will revolve around Regina or Robin Hood, just to amp up the Regina/Robin/Zelena baby chronicles that will take over 5B.
• Robin Hood will propose to Regina, and their wedding will take place during the 5B finale. Regina will ask Emma to be her maid of honor since their "friendship" is already based on Emma being Regina's bitch and doing whatever she says.

 

Why do I watch this show again?

Edited September 1, 2015 by Curio

[Serena]

I guess I just don't see why Adam needs to have a talk with her. Scott last year, yes, was being inappropriate, but this woman is only tweeting stuff like "I'm so excited for the upcoming storylines" and "This episode is going to be great and you'll love it!". I mean, yeah, the episodes may end up sucking, but it's her job to be an excited advocate for the show. I mean, for example, I think Snow/Regina interactions are stupid and eye-roll worthy, but I certainly don't think the actresses should be told to stop promoting them and being excited for them. I think the idea that the Emma and Regina storyline is an example of "strong women being friends" is ridiculous, but I don't think JMo should be told to stop saying that. There are some lines that shouldn't be crossed in promoting the show (no, Regina and Graham was not fun and flirty) but I don't think BH has gone near them.

[CatMack]

Yeah, I don't really get the hate for her tweets. So she's excited to be working on a big name show and is promoting it in a positive way, so what? We may disagree with her assessment but she's entitled to her opinion and she may genuinely believe they're turning out great stuff. And even if she doesn't really personally think it's the best thing ever and is just saying that to promote it, again, so what? I run the Twitter feed for my job, it's literally in my job description to post positive things no matter what I may personally feel about our product. I have the luxury of that social media stuff being under the brand name, not my name. Writers, and actors, etc, on social media have to promote their work under their own personal banner.

She's not being inappropriate, so whether we agree with her or not there's nothing wrong with her posting positive things. That's just not how social media promotion or PR in general works and to expect her to be chastised for promoting the show in a positive way is beyond ludicrous.

[Curio]

Now, say, if Adam & Eddy said in an interview that Emma would play an integral part of retrieving Hook's heart and that the resolution to that storyline would be "satisfying," then yes, we can lambaste the writers for lying to us.

[Rumsy4]

I don't think her tweets are inappropriate. But I think she doesn't realize the inevitable shitstorm when different fans feel they didn't get the promised payoff. Even looking at this thread, we all have different ideas of what that means.

[RadioGirl27]

I don't think she is being inappropiate, but, in general, I find the hyperbole a bit ridiculous and it usually has the opposite effect on me. I know she is promoting the show, so of course she is going to use words like “heartbreaking”, “mega awsome”, “mind blowing” and “incredible” (all of them taken from her tweets about the show), but a lot of people is taking her tweets at face value. So, when the mega awsome mind blowing heartbreaking SQ/CS/OQ/Rumbelle/Snowing scene they are waiting for doesn't happen, the shitstorm in her twitter feed (but also in Adam's and everyone else involved in the show) is going to be considerable.

Edited September 1, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[mjgchick]

It's not her fault that some people take her tweets as face value. That's why I do feel sorry for people who ship crackships/non Canon ships. If you take her tweets as face value but then get dissatisfied with the result well that's your fault. It's not like she's lying when she gets excited about these things. These are her opinion not facts. If the long time fans payoff is we find out that Blue Fairy is actually evil then she ain't lying. lol

[YaddaYadda]

If the long time fans payoff is we find out that Blue Fairy is actually evil then she ain't lying. lol

 

It would be about the only thing everyone might actually agree on.  Blue is one shady fairy. Maybe she was the Black fairy fallen from grace who decided to steal the real Blue fairy's identity and none is the wiser. 

[Rumsy4]

It would be about the only thing everyone might actually agree on.  Blue is one shady fairy. Maybe she was the Black fairy fallen from grace who decided to steal the real Blue fairy's identity and none is the wiser. 

 

That would explain everything! lol

 

As for the payoffs I want to see, they include Emma learning about Graham, Emma and Snow having more than a two line conversation about their issues, and Regina being called out on her entitled whiny self. But there's little likelihood of any of that panning out.

[OnceUponAJen]

Actually, I like BH's tweets and her attitude. It's her opinion, regardless of whether anyone agrees with it once they see the final product. I'm curious to see what they consider "payoff for long term fans" to actually mean, since I am one!

[Writing Wrongs]

Are we still supposed to find out who Lily's dad is or is that been put on the backburner?

[Curio]

Are we still supposed to find out who Lily's dad is or is that been put on the backburner?

 

I believe it's been filed under "We'll Get To It Eventually," along with learning about how Will ended up in Storybrooke, whatever happened to Ana, and whatever Will was searching for when he was digging holes on the beach.

[YaddaYadda]

Are we still supposed to find out who Lily's dad is or is that been put on the backburner?

On my end, I hope it is. I hope they drop the whole Lily angle and focus on building the characters they already have instead of just moving them from plot to plot to plot.

[FierceAfroChick]

On my end, I hope it is. I hope they drop the whole Lily angle and focus on building the characters they already have instead of just moving them from plot to plot to plot.

ITA, ITA, ITA.  If Lily gets a backstory involving her father before Hook does, I will scream.  I’ve watched most of season 4 and am truly put out by all the new characters.  I didn’t care about Ursula or Cruella’s backstories at all, didn’t care about Elsa or Anna either.   It would be nice if they could concentrate on main characters, the already established secondary characters and introduce a big bad who has absolutely no connection to anyone.  Or create some nice juicy conflict between the mains, because seriously, they never should’ve had Regina and the Charmings become friends.  And should’ve had more subplots with the secondary characters.  I wish ”Sleepy Hollow” could world build like OUAT and wish OUAT had SH’s CGI.  Both these shows make me wanna pull my hair out.

[RadioGirl27]

Are we still supposed to find out who Lily's dad is or is that been put on the backburner?

This is from EW, in July:

 

How much will we see Maleficent and Lily on the new season of Once Upon a Time? — Jaimie

Because the focus is on Emma becoming the Dark One — did you see the awesome shots of the Dark Swan? — the hunt for Lily’s father will take a backseat for at least the first five episodes. “We intend to tell that story at some point this season,” EP Edward Kitsis says. “We set it up for a reason. That is one we are definitely intending to do.”

Anyway, A&E are not very reliable when it comes to future storylines, but they seem interested in this storyline.

 

ITA, ITA, ITA.  If Lily gets a backstory involving her father before Hook does, I will scream.

Then we will scream together, because that's probably what it's going to happen.

Edited September 1, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Rumsy4]

What if Lily's dad was also Arthur's dad, and she ends up being Morgana. That way, they can pack her off to Camelot at the end of the arc, and we can forget all about her! Seriously, I don't see the point of this character at all!!

IIRC, Eddy mentioned that Lily's parentage won't be dealt with in the first five episodes.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Rumsy4

[scenicbyway]

So, epically sized to me means that the mid season finale will be 2 hours long.  This way they get in 11 hours of programming but in 10 episodes, saving the spring season premiere for the 100th episode.

 

Payoff for long time fans?  I have no idea.  The only thing that would be satisfying for me would be a TLK between Hook and Emma, but I think they are saving it for a long while.  So I can't fathom, what another payoff would be at this point.

[KingOfHearts]

Lily is basically Regina 3.0. (After Zelena.) She's a whoobie who is basically a way the writers could make Regina Emma's best friend since childhood. Her story isn't about Maleficent, Snowing or her father - her only purpose is to be an AU Swan Queen insert. That's why A&E would actually show remote interest in her.

I'm not saying her character is bad necessarily. If the writers used the past 4 seasons to flesh out our main characters more, a new one wouldn't hurt. But alas, here we are.

Edited September 1, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[HoodlumSheep]

Is it wrong that I'd take Regina 3.0 over original Regina? Despite being tangled up in the mess of 4b, I liked her character somewhat (I like her better than Regina and Nealfire). I'd prefer her and Emma forming a friendship again rather than forced buddy Emma/Regina stuff. And Lily's done far less horrible stuff to Emma than what Regina has done.

I have no problem with Brigitte's tweets either. She can tweet whatever she wants, and sounds like she's excited for the upcoming season. She has yet to be dragged down into the toxic, bitter depths that is the Once fandom and hopefully it stays that way.

Edited September 1, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Shanna Marie]

I also have no problem with the new writer's tweets. After all, A&E probably don't think that what they're writing is frustrating and lacking in payoff, so I can't see why they'd feel any need to tell her to dial it back a notch. They probably think it's an accurate description of their work to call it epic and wonderful. They're writing things that work for them. They're not deliberately writing frustrating stuff that doesn't work.

[orza]

I also have no problem with the new writer's tweets. After all, A&E probably don't think that what they're writing is frustrating and lacking in payoff, so I can't see why they'd feel any need to tell her to dial it back a notch. They probably think it's an accurate description of their work to call it epic and wonderful. They're writing things that work for them. They're not deliberately writing frustrating stuff that doesn't work.

And it's also working for millions of viewers. I don't find what they write frustrating and lacking in payoff. If I did, I would stop watching, as would most people.

[KingOfHearts]

And it's also working for millions of viewers. I don't find what they write frustrating and lacking in payoff. If I did, I would stop watching, as would most people.

It really just depends on who you're talking to. Hyperbole works better on some audiences than others. I think the Once fandom in general has shifted quite a bit in taste and wants from S1.

Edited September 1, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's take a quick moment to remember what to discuss in here - SPOILERS.

 

For example; If the writers are tweeting spoilers, that's fine in here. However, if you want to discuss A&E and new writers and their tweeting habits and tweets that are just generally about the season, and not spoiler-y, and the dynamics in the writers' room, etc? That should be discussed in The Writers thread. This is not the only off-topic discussion that's occurred, but it is the most recent.

 

You have a lot of leeway in here, so please think about what you're discussing, and make sure you're on topic. Getting a bit off-topic is fine; when it doesn't correct (e.g., "Replying in the Fandom thread!"), that becomes an issue.

 

No posts have been moved, but may be going forward. Thanks, all!

 

[mjgchick]

Whose bed is Killian undressing us with in that pic Ginny posted on the instagram? Is she trying to kill the Killian/Emma shippers?

[Serena]

That seems to be definitely a "Camelot" bed. So, question. Killian and Emma in Camelot sharing a bed: yay or nay?

[YaddaYadda]

That seems to be definitely a "Camelot" bed. So, question. Killian and Emma in Camelot sharing a bed: yay or nay?

Yay and Westley much? The Princess Bride parallels are never ending when it comes to CS.

[mjgchick]

He did remind me of Westley. It's bad enough Emma's white dress reminds me of Buttercup. If they aren't giving me Princess Bride feels they're giving me Tangled feels.

 

 

I think I need help.

[maryle]

This fandom is so bizarre it is like a emotional roller coaster that never ending !!!

Cute picture of Hook and emma in 5x4 high, 5x5 pic similar to 4x5 dive and cute pic from the concert high again, some fans croossing line shame and finally bed picture of Colin similar to Brincess bride.

At this point I am confuse if I want to stay in the wagon or just take off! For my sanity

[sharky]

Yea, that Camelot bed photo is intriguing. A few days earlier in that Instagram feed is also a pic of Josh Dallas in what looks like Camelot garb on the steps of Granny's with woods in the background. Just confirms what we already know about Granny's moving.

[LizaD]

So there was a picture floating around of the Camelot newbies practicing archery and it dawned on me. Merida is one of the Knights of the Round Table isn't she? Probably taking Tristan's place as he's the known archer. And then the Storybrooke crew makes up the Knights that they haven't cast. So far they have Lancelot, Percival, Henry's future father-in-law right? They're probably going to make Gwen one too so along with Arthur and Merida is 6. The Storybrooke side conveniently comes with 6: Snowing, OQ, Henry and Hook.

[Rumsy4]

That seems to be definitely a "Camelot" bed. So, question. Killian and Emma in Camelot sharing a bed: yay or nay?

 

Yay! I think we're finally getting a CS coffee scene. 

[YaddaYadda]

But is Lancelot past or present? If he is still a knight, maybe the story he told David is not exactly true? I mean there seems to be some changes to A&G's backstory.

[OnceUponAJen]

Yay! I think we're finally getting a CS coffee scene.

So is this the much-speculated payoff?

[Souris]

If it's a new or fairly new pic, then I guess it's from 5x05. Sex with Hook isn't going to make Emma lose her soul and go all dark like with Angel and Buffy, is it?

 

But seriously, is Emma going to leave Hook in bed to go off and do whatever with Regina/Henry/magic battle and then turn full Dark?

[Curio]

That seems to be definitely a "Camelot" bed. So, question. Killian and Emma in Camelot sharing a bed: yay or nay?

 

Gotta love the crazy eagle-eyed Tumblrettes who seem to have found Emma standing in the background with her white dress on all blurred.

 

But seriously, is Emma going to leave Hook in bed to go off and do whatever with Regina/Henry/magic battle and then turn full Dark?

 

Well, it fits Emma's M.O. Make out with boyfriend in back hallway of Granny's; immediately go find Regina and get roped into a terrible plan (Operation Mongoose). Have fun with boyfriend in bed; immediately go find Regina and get roped into a terrible plan (battling Merlin).

[mjgchick]

So basically she should stop listening to her grandma?

[Souris]

So Rumple, Merida & Emma/GraySwan filmed together in the first ep in what was an EF setting. According to spoilers from today, that trio (JMo, no spoiler about her "color") filmed together again in a SB setting (judging by the bug's presence) for the "heartbreaker" ep, which IMO is the ep where we see Emma go full dark. I feel like there must be something important going on among this trio. Are they working together somehow? 

 

Seems like Merida is going to have a big/important role.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Souris

[mjgchick]

So Gray Swan comes to Storybrook before Dark Swan emerges. I bet she turns dark because she has no choice and probably thinks it's what's best for everyone.

[Souris]

Sorry, I wasn't clear in separating the various Swans, LOL. I think the Gray Swan stuff is all EF/Camelot. There haven't been any spoilers about how Emma was dressed today, but I'm guessing Dark Swan.

 

Amy Manson posted a pic and teased Merida fighting someone. So I guess maybe they're not all working together?

Edited September 2, 2015 by Souris

[YaddaYadda]

So I've got a question.

 

Emma is "Grey" Swan when she's found or when she finds them because of her dress. We don't know what kind of dress she'll be wearing at the ball and if she'll even be attending, but then she's in white, like pure white, dress and cloak for at least 2 episodes that we know of. Why is she in white, white, white if she's already started transitioning into grey?

 

And in Storybrooke, she's dressed all in black even though she hasn't gone full on dark. If she had gone full on dark already, I don't think Regina would allow her to be anywhere near Henry (and I think she might even be encouraging Emma to be with Henry).

 

one thing though is that from what Henry tells Emma when they're by the bug about how he's missed "them", it sounds like sometime has passed between when they're in Camelot and he's there with both she and Regina, and when he's getting in the bug with her.

 

About the filming with Amy Manson and RC, is it possible that this is a new episode? 

[PixiePaws1]

That seems to be definitely a "Camelot" bed. So, question. Killian and Emma in Camelot sharing a bed: yay or nay?

I don't think that bed would look out of place in the Storybrooke Dark Swan house....maybe that's where Emma has been keeping him. Handy with the posts and all (!)...and she put him back in his pirate leathers for...oh, so many, many reasons. Perhaps it is no coincidence the bedspread is red and he's wearing his new red vest. (I may have just upset myself in a good way *smirk*)

[Souris]

So I've got a question.

 

Emma is "Grey" Swan when she's found or when she finds them because of her dress. We don't know what kind of dress she'll be wearing at the ball and if she'll even be attending, but then she's in white, like pure white, dress and cloak for at least 2 episodes that we know of. Why is she in white, white, white if she's already started transitioning into grey?

 

And in Storybrooke, she's dressed all in black even though she hasn't gone full on dark. If she had gone full on dark already, I don't think Regina would allow her to be anywhere near Henry (and I think she might even be encouraging Emma to be with Henry).

 

I think she has gone full dark in SB. I don't know why Hook would be resisting her advances if she hadn't gone full dark. And I'm not sure Regina IS allowing Henry near Emma -- she may not know, and that's why she's pissed afterward and lecturing Emma.

 

Yesterday COULD be a new ep, but that would make 5x05 a 6-day shoot, and it's usually 8 days. But it can vary. Who knows!