Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Camera One]

Merlin must be an idiot given all the things we know about him.  Here's hoping they casted someone who can make us forget all that.  Since the writing on this show depends on the cast so much more heavily.

[Shanna Marie]

On the dream sequence possibility ... we could be dealing with a "last temptation of Emma Swan" scenario, in which the Dark One within shows her what she could have, sort of a "go ahead, embrace me, and you can have everything you want" thing.

 

Of course, we know she could have fantasy-level romance with Hook without the help of darkness, but possibly not while she's struggling.

[Writing Wrongs]

Will the gauntlet Rump got from Camelot play any part in this arc? I'd already forgotten about it.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Will the gauntlet Rump got from Camelot play any part in this arc? I'd already forgotten about it.

Naw, they'll use something totally contrived and having nothing to do with Arthurian lore or this show's arsenal of pre-conceived plot devices. 

 

(I just described the gauntlet, didn't I?)

[Serena]

So who wants to take bet on what we'll see in SB this Friday? Dark Swan or not DS? Is Arthur still there?

[OnceUponAJen]

It seems like things are going backwards, because we've seen Dark Swan, then Grey Swan, and White Swan.

[mjgchick]

I need a drink. We seriously have 3 Swan's?

[YaddaYadda]

I'm just excited we'll get something.  I didn't think they would be showing up in Storybrooke for another while.

[Souris]

Merlin must be an idiot given all the things we know about him.  Here's hoping they casted someone who can make us forget all that.  Since the writing on this show depends on the cast so much more heavily.

 

I'm a bit skeptical since it's Michaela's fiancé from How to Get Away With Murder. My transition of seeing him as Merlin instead of him will take a bit of effort! Of course, I still have knee-jerk "King Arthur is a terrorist!" reactions.

 

It seems like things are going backwards, because we've seen Dark Swan, then Grey Swan, and White Swan.

 

Translucent Swan.

 

Guess we know why Emilie couldn't make the convention that weekend! That implies she will be filming. That should be the end of 5x04.

[Serena]

I'm a bit skeptical since it's Michaela's fiancé from How to Get Away With Murder. My transition of seeing him as Merlin instead of him will take a bit of effort! 

It's that dude?! I didn't realize. Well, at least he's handsome.

[LizaD]

Didn't someone say we were going to get the backstories of previous DOs in one of the early episodes and that we'll see they all became one for a good reason? I'm assuming by early it's in the first 4 or so? What episode could that be? And who are all the previous DOs?

The only people who are getting cast are Arthur's Knights right? Percival and Lionel so far. Do all of the Knights get a turn or something? But then they would have to predate Zoso/Rump.

[Souris]

Didn't someone say we were going to get the backstories of previous DOs in one of the early episodes and that we'll see they all became one for a good reason? I'm assuming by early it's in the first 4 or so? What episode could that be? And who are all the previous DOs?

 

It may be a more "tell" than "show" thing, if the Dark One Rumple in Emma's mind gives her the initiation history speech.

[kili]

Or Emma dies. Strong possibility.

 

If Emma dies, I have a bad feeling that Charming's heroic act will be to resurrect her using the key to the Dark One's vault. The characters know about it and what the consequences are. Charming has already been willing to sacrifice himself for his family. I can see them using the fact that he shares a heart with Snow to actually save him from the Dark One curse (some nonsense about how it takes your heart, but his was already gone). I can also see the show being able to use this as the reason why Emma goes dark.  Going through the Dark Vault maybe gives you an extra rinse cycle of darkness and being responsible for her father's "death" (not realizing he survives) might be the push she needs.

[maryle]

OK I saw the the fake wedding pic and they exactly the king of picture of what a show about fairytale should be about!! The cuteness factor is out of this world !!

It is what (we as audience ) are expecting for the romance of their lead!

But I' now on team CS will have a big focus this season with a big angst ( episode 5?) but also a real pay off, this time.

I'm not sure about TLK and certainly not a real wedding unleast it is really the last season ( in spite of myself I'm not ready to let Once go...) but no way the showrunner planned a scene like that and the focus is not on CS in a significantly way.

[Souris]

Young Guinevere is also carrying a pink rose in this pic with young Arthur. They're clearly doing some sort of mirror/parallel/link between them, with the pink rose tying it together. There was also the pink rose petals in the scene with Guinevere & Lancelot dancing.

 

Obviously, Guinevere betrays Arthur in the legend with Lancelot. That would tie in with Selina K's theory about the Swan Princess/Swan Lake parallels of the prince/Hook betraying the White Swan.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Souris

[Curio]

Young Guinevere is also carrying a pink rose in this pic with young Arthur.

I could see the show going two different routes here: 1) They're attempting to do some relationship parallel between Arthur/Gwen and Hook/Emma, or 2) There's something magical about the pink roses that will play a role in the episode. I hope it's the latter, because from all the character descriptions we've gotten so far, Arthur/Gwen isn't supposed to be a happy relationship, so I'd hate to have that paralleled with the stable Captain Swan.

 

If the roses are magical or poisonous somehow, then there'd be some dramatic irony when Hook hands the rose over to Emma. The audience could get a flashback of young Arthur and Gwen with the rose, and we'd learn through the flashback that the rose garden was magically manipulated by Merlin in some way. Then, in the present, Hook and Emma are blissfully unaware that the garden they've wandered into is the same garden Merlin tampered with.

 

Just a hump day theory.

[Serena]

I was just coming here to post that! Yikes, Arthur/Guinevere parallels. Or at least, parallels to Arthur/Guinevere before the whole Lancelot thing. That makes me think something WAY bad happens to CS this episode. Can't wait for SB filming!

 

I think CS are clearly headed toward a kind of relationship breakdown like A/G, hopefully there will be some kind of "the A/G relationship failed because he reacted all wrong like this, this and this" and we will see CS avoiding those mistakes and reacting to their obstacles in a better way.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Serena

[YaddaYadda]

Young Guinevere & Arthur.

Ok, so there's this, then there's Kay?  I am officially excited.  

 

I know what A/G are supposed to be and Lancelot coming in and all of that, but what if Lancelot's feelings are one sided?  Or what if there's nothing between Lancelot and Gwen at all and it's just an excuse to send Lancelot on a mission outside of Camelot without anyone being the wiser?

 

The reason A/G end up not working out is because she falls in love with someone else. That's not the case with CS.

 

But OMG, am I close to getting what I want.

[LizaD]

Well there's also the pink rose from Beauty and the Beast that Belle is toting around. Maybe the rose is a timer for when the DO curse completely takes over.

[HoodlumSheep]

i'm fine with the pink roses turning out to be magically evil. I'd probably prefer that compared to the idea of Hook betraying Emma (unless it was completely unknowingly). The possible CS/AG parallels worry me a little bit. They seem to be paralleling happier times. The young Arthur and Guinevere could suggest a time when there was a general happiness of sorts between them before things went sour when they grew up. So maybe the CS scenes parallel the happier times before things go south? And while A/G couldn't fix things between them, CS can???

Maybe we can figure out what happens based on future spoilers.

Edited August 19, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Souris]

 The young Arthur and Guinevere could suggest a time when there was a general happiness of sorts between them before things went sour when they grew up. So maybe the CS scenes parallel the happier times before things go south?

 

It's perhaps significant that the rose is intact with young G/A, but when she's grown up and with Lancelot, the petals that are tossed have been plucked. The rose is no longer whole. I suspect something is going to happen to that rose Emma is carrying. (Mentally revisiting college lit paper on the use of nature imagery in Jane Eyre....)

 

Definitely the happy time for CS before it all goes to hell!

Edited August 19, 2015 by Souris

[RadioGirl27]

An Arthur/Guinevere parallel for CS can only mean bad things for the relationship, unless A&E are doing one of their "clever twists" (insert sarcasm here) in the Arthur/Guinevere/Lancelot story, like Guinevere and Lancelot were just friends but Arthur was manipulated to think it was something else. The same way Emma could be manipulated to think that Hook has betrayed her, even if it's not true. Or maybe they are doing a Hook/Emma/Darkness triangle were Emma chooses to embrace the darkness over Hook.

Whatever it is it can only mean lots of pain for them.

Edited August 19, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[HoodlumSheep]

Is Colin leaning against a real live horse in one of the spoiler pics(the close-up of his outfit)?!?! If so, Colin: step away from the horse immediately. Someone should warn him not to do that, because that is very dangerous. If that horse decides to kick he could get seriously injured (or end up dead). You never stand that close to the back of a horse. Now I'm freaking out.

**Nevermind, it looks like his stunt double. There's no scruff. Either way, step away from the horse!! it seriously freaks me out seeing people stand so close (or leaning against) the back end of a horse. If that horse decides to kick...*shudders*

Edited August 19, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Souris]

I noticed that EXACT same thing, HoodlumSheep! So not safe. I saw another pic where Jen was standing right behind the horse. My mom was kicked by a horse, so I've heard about how dangerous that is.

[daxx]

Depends on the horse, I could duck under the belly of my mare to the other side or tug on her tail, she never kicked.

[Lieutenant]

So, I noticed that in the pics of little Arthur and Gwen from 5.04, one of the "bullies" seems to be the kid who plays Kay.  I wonder what direction they are going to go with those two?

[YaddaYadda]

So, I noticed that in the pics of little Arthur and Gwen from 5.04, one of the "bullies" seems to be the kid who plays Kay.  I wonder what direction they are going to go with those two?

 

Kay is a bit of a hot head, so there's that.  In Once and Future King, he actually loves Arthur, and he is one of Arthur's first knights, so I guess we'll see what the show will do with that.

 

Funny story...Kay has a small adventure with Robin Hood and Maid Marian.  I don't know if they'll cast adult Kay and if they do, I hope they don't know each other. Imagine the awkward conversation.  My wife was originally killed by my girlfriend, you might know her as the Evil Queen and then she really was killed by the half-sister, the Wicked Witch who tricked me into sleeping with her by taking my wife's form.  We're expecting a bundle of joy in about 6 months.

[Serena]

If Guinevere cheats on an Arthur she's known since they were little kids when he used to be a poor bullied boy and he gave her roses - yikes, that's not going to paint her too sympathetic to the audience.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Serena

[Curio]

If Guinevere cheats on an Arthur she's known since they were little kids when he used to be a poor bullied boy and he gave her roses - yikes, that's not going to paint her too sympathetic to the audience.

 

Oh, don't worry. All they'll have to do is show a bunch of shots of Gwen crying into a pillow and saying, "Woe is me, why does life always kick me in the teeth?" and she'll automatically gain sympathy from half the audience.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

Does anyone remember what the casting call for Gwen said?  I know she was supposed to be younger than Arthur, but with these flashbacks, they look to be the same age (take of leave 1 or 2 years).  

 

They could go down the whole first love vs true love with them which seems to be somewhat a prevalent theme on the show at the very least with one of their main couples.  

 

I think they're going to change Gwen's characterization though.  It's just an impression I'm getting.  Maybe she really does love him and something happens that pushes them apart.  I just hope it's not her wandering eye.

[CatMack]

Do we know for sure that Guinevere betrays Arthur on Once or are we just assuming because that's the most common telling? After all, the most recent TV incarnation of the couple (on BBCs Merlin) was portrayed as true love that ha to overcome obstacles to be together, with Lancelot being a complication but not a permanent obstacle. I'm not saying A/G will be all sunshine and roses on Once, but there's certainly precedent for alternate versions of the story, and Once loves to change established narratives. So unless there's been confirmation that I missed that Once is for sure going with Guinevere betraying Arthur with Lancelot, I'm not going to assume paralleling CS with them is meant to foreshadow horrible betrayal on the horizon.

[YaddaYadda]

So unless there's been confirmation that I missed that Once is for sure going with Guinevere betraying Arthur with Lancelot, I'm not going to assume paralleling CS with them is meant to foreshadow horrible betrayal on the horizon.

 

Nothing has been confirmed.

 

What got me excited about them doing those flashbacks to a very young Arthur and Gwen is that maybe they're going to not go there with her.  

[Serena]

I also hope they don't go there, but with Arthur being - not bad exactly, but grey - it looks like they could use that to justify it, like "Arthur changed so much from the boy she fell in love with, power/being king corrupted him, that she just fell out of love."

[Souris]

Colin looks like he belongs on the cover of the new romance novel "The Pirate and the Princess" in these filming pics. (Here since the pics are spoilery.)

[Selina K]

Colin looks like he belongs on the cover of the new romance novel "The Pirate and the Princess" in these filming pics. (Here since the pics are spoilery.)

I'm so struck by the light in these pics and the others we have seen of Jen.  So beautiful. 

[mjgchick]

They look like they are doing a photoshoot.

[YaddaYadda]

So apparently there's a rose called Camelot?  Not the foxgloves, but an actual "Rosa-Camelot", it's pink and all too.  Very likely irrelevant to this exercise, but I think it's an interesting fun fact.

[sharky]

Colin looks like he belongs on the cover of the new romance novel "The Pirate and the Princess" in these filming pics. (Here since the pics are spoilery.)

You know, one thing I've noticed by looking at these pictures over and over and over again is the guyliner he's wearing. The theory here and elsewhere is that Hook's guyliner changes depending on his level of good or bad going on. We saw it thin out at the end of S4 but it's looking much darker in these photos, which makes me think there is something else going on here. Perhaps a dream sequence or perhaps he's going darker -- whether intentional or unintentional -- to keep up with Emma. Perhaps we will be able to gauge just how far into darkness Emma is going by how dark Hook's eyeliner gets.

[Shanna Marie]

Perhaps we will be able to gauge just how far into darkness Emma is going by how dark Hook's eyeliner gets.

Or they just have to intensify the makeup when they're shooting outdoors in sunlight. :-) It's hard to judge how it will look on film until we see it on their film, lit the way they're shooting it for their cameras.

[sharky]

Shanna -- That's too logical of an explanation for this show. What's wrong with you? ;) ;) ;)

[retrograde]

I think maaybe they lightened it a bit when he moved to modern clothes because it just looked too weird a contrast.

[Watt]

Colin looks like he belongs on the cover of the new romance novel "The Pirate and the Princess" in these filming pics. (Here since the pics are spoilery.)

I'd read that.

[Souris]

I find it oddly festive they're going to be having a block party in SB. With kettle corn. Is Dark Swan gonna crash the party?

[KingOfHearts]

 

I find it oddly festive they're going to be having a block party in SB. With kettle corn. Is Dark Swan gonna crash the party?

Knowing how fast this show is, it's probably a celebration of Emma being rescued and back to normal. The rest of the arc will be #ReactToMerlin, then 5B will be something random and totally irrelevant to Camelot.

[LizaD]

Maybe Dark Swan is throwing the party. And since she's the evilest evil ever, she won't invite Suzy Victim homemaker and her lasagna. That's how you will know Dark Swan has arrived.

Or they're throwing a party to lure DS out and it's a trap of some sort.

Either way I hope DS sets up some fun games. Like a live "pin the beanie on the dwarves" or find your heart scavenger hunt. And she can serve some BBQ royalty and grilled true love babies on the cob.

[retrograde]

Given the apparent Camelot-Storybrooke cross-over theme, I hope the fair involves an archery contest. I've always wanted to see the Storybrooke residents bring more fairytale stuff into the modern world because, well, it's the stuff they grew up with and their cultural heritage, in a weird way. Why don't they ever hold balls, or go practice sword-fighting? And does the school now teach Enchanted Forest subjects as well as real-world ones? I have always wondered.

[Souris]

I think Dark Swan will enjoy the "Kiss the Pirate" booth. Though she'll have to fight off Charming. ;)

 

Dare we hope for a "Dunk the Evil Queen" booth? She'll be great at the insult-screaming.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Souris

[YaddaYadda]

About Merida

 

Particularly, Merida will first cross paths with Emma (Jennifer Morrison) before eventually meeting up with the rest of our heroes and villains. “It’s certainly a part of Emma’s journey as the Dark Swan and dealing with her darkness,” Horowitz says. “All that is tied with how we explore the world of Camelot this year. At the end of last year, Merlin was revealed to be very important to what Emma needs. Hopefully you’ll see that it all ties together in a fun way. You’ll get that pretty much from the start. In the season premiere, there’s a lot that happens, including Merida and giving you a taste of what we plan to do with Camelot.”

 

So is this a year long arc or is it generally speaking?

[Rumsy4]

So, we get to see Merida after that events of the movie, just as with Elsa and Anna. If abc is trusting A&E with yet another new disney creation, dare we hope that Disney will once again oversee the writing for this arc?

I think the overarching theme of this season will be all about exploring the Dark One mythology, but I don't think the Canelot characters and Merida will be seen beyond 5A.

ETA: I'm glad Merida won't just be interacting with Belle!

Edited August 21, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Curio]

So, we get to see Merida after that events of the movie, just as with Elsa and Anna. If abc is trusting A&E with yet another new disney creation, dare we hope that Disney will once again oversee the writing for this arc?

Eh, I doubt it. I think Frozen was a special case because of how popular and recent it is. Brave, even though it's fairly recent, isn't the huge juggernaut Frozen is.