Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[sharky]

But yea, then the white dresses are going to look bridal at some point. I actually like the black since it matches with what they've done with their costume color palate in the past. Think about the Enchanted Forest costumes for everyone -- Snow is white and off white, Evil Queen is black. The only character who wears the EF costume in the real world is Hook, and now Emma is the second character to do so. It just seems natural that she would have black.

[scenicbyway]

I've been thinking for a while that Emma is going to be the Emma we know in the EF and Camelot while she'll be "Dark Swan" in Storybrooke "her reality" and that appears to be what's happening.  Just as we never saw sparkly Rumple outside of fairytale land we'll won't see sparkly Emma outside of Storybrooke.  I know the promo in the cell seems like it would be different, but I'd argue there's special magic in the cell keeping her transformed.

 

I don't mind Emma's dark wardrobe, I think the hair needs work but maybe it will look different on camera.

 

The new house is reminiscent of a Castle and with that picket fence, I think it might be Emma's dream house.  It would be funny to see Dark Emma live with the Charmings, but with this new found sense of self, it's nice to see her get a home.  I wonder if Hook and Henry will move in though?

[HoodlumSheep]

I've come back from camping to find out Emma has a house! I'm happy.

[Souris]

Is it just me or does Snow seem like she's about to pass out in those BTS pics? And she's clutching her chest. A symptom of having only half a heart?

 

And Robin gets levitated and Arthur ends up on the ground at some point.

 

ETA: The fan who posted the pic with Colin at the studio confirmed it was a pirate outfit. Flashback? Role play with DarkBarWenchSwan?

Edited July 30, 2015 by Souris

[sharky]

Whatever it is, it's not his typical pirate costume. I don't remember having a pirate collared shirt that wasn't all black and that one has some purple on it. WTF.

[RadioGirl27]

I've seen some fans in Tumblr that thinks episode 2 is going to be a flashback for Hook, but I doubt it. First of all, I don't think they are going to use the same structure they have used until now, with the flashbacks to the past of a particular character. But, even if they were going to keep the flashbacks, the character involved in it is usually also heavily involved in the present time, and Colin hasn't been shooting that much for this episode and he even wasn't in the big "secret" scene. I think it's going to be just his Camelot outfit.

[OnceUponAJen]

I'm hoping it's his Camelot outfit and he'll wear it for multiple episodes because I've REALLY missed Hook's piratey costumes ;)

I know! The man's a pirate. Let him be a pirate!

[Watt]

Speaking of clothes why is Snow wearing one of Regina's pantsuits? I can't help but feel her clothing is influenced by how Ginny feels about her post baby body but I think she's got a great figure and wish she wouldn't hide it. She just had a baby for Christ's sake. You're allowed to not be a size 2.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Watt

[YaddaYadda]

I've seen some fans in Tumblr that thinks episode 2 is going to be a flashback for Hook, but I doubt it.

 

I'd be surprised if that's a Hook centric. He already paid a pretty heavy price for magic, several times over.  I thought it might a Arthur centric especially since he seems to have managed to make the trip to Storybrooke.

[Serena]

I feel like they won't do "centrics" per se because they won't have flashbacks to a place in a character's past but flash forwards to Dark Swan and Camelot in the present, so neither of those timelines can focus exactly on one character.

[Scovies]

Perhaps Hook is simply present in the flashback, even if it's not focused on him? He's got the dangly earring that he hasn't worn since the beginning of S4 and more eyeliner than I've seen on him in a while. I like the look, but it's not very similar to his "present-day" styling.

[Souris]

I've seen some speculation that Hook may go "undercover" with DarkSwan, pretending to join her in darkness, in order to stay near her and try to keep her from going more evil. It did sound like Emma's loved ones wouldn't agree on how to help her and would have different ways they try to do it.

[YaddaYadda]

There's also a ball in Camelot or what we assume could be a ball during 5x02.  I like the eggplant color.

 

He also has a brand new earring.  

 

 

I feel like they won't do "centrics" per se because they won't have flashbacks to a place in a character's past but flash forwards to Dark Swan and Camelot in the present, so neither of those timelines can focus exactly on one character.

 

I sort of agree and disagree with this.  The casting call for episode 4 (Merlin centric maybe) seems to maybe indicate some sort of flashback.  

 

As long as whatever they're doing is relevant and not used as some filler!

Edited July 30, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Souris]

There's also a ball in Camelot or what we assume could be a ball during 5x02.  I like the eggplant color.

 

It's like the Venn diagram center of his black vest and the Red Vest of Sex.

[Rumsy4]

Yay! New Hook costume! I'm so excited!! haha I think it may be his Camelot costume. The Nevengers will probably all get costume changes there. When in Rome, etc..

[pezgirl7]

Are there any other photos of Colin in the new outfit besides just the one Instagram pic? It looks like he has a black piratey shirt on, with a vest that's purple on the front, and black in the back. I'm guessing he'll have a jacket on over it, so the back of the vest will never be seen. The earring is kind of strange, but it doesn't help that it's obviously a clip-on. I feel like he has more eyeliner on than usual, but maybe it won't be so heavy on screen. I'm going to guess this is a new outfit for Camelot. With the right jacket and pants, it could be fancied up for a ball outfit. The shirt and vest are similar in style to the one he wore to the other ball, just different colors. His hair looks nice and floofy!

[Curio]

I feel like he has more eyeliner on than usual, but maybe it won't be so heavy on screen.

 

The more the merrier, I say! I miss the thick eyeliner. If I had things my way, he'd look like a rockstar raccoon 24/7. 

[YaddaYadda]

Episode 3 title : "Siege Perilous"

 

In Arthurian legend, the Siege Perilous (also known as The Perilous Seat) is a vacant seat at the Round Table reserved by Merlin for the knight who would one day be successful in the quest for the Holy Grail.

 

This is usually reserved for Percival (who has been cast) or Galahad.  I'm guessing the knight in question though will be David.

[Curio]

I hope they do something with this:

The Siege Perilous is so strictly reserved that it is fatal to anyone else who sits in it.

[YaddaYadda]

I hope they don't do some quest for the Holy Grail but something else.  Maybe that's what they need to destroy the goop once and for all.

[kili]

I hope they don't do some quest for the Holy Grail but something else

 

If they do quest for the Grail, I hope that somebody says something about the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow. African or European?

[Curio]

I hope they don't do some quest for the Holy Grail but something else. Maybe that's what they need to destroy the goop once and for all.

 

I'll bet $5.00 (Yes, I'm poor.) Once's version of the Holy Grail is the Dark One's dagger.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Curio

[Shanna Marie]

Or the Holy Grail may be the one receptacle that can actually contain the Darkness. The hat was built for that purpose, but didn't work. Their only hope is the Holy Grail. Which will have an entirely different backstory because I doubt they want to introduce religious issues into the show (the concept of the Grail as an object of power and anything other than just a cup isn't Biblical, but the story behind it requires getting into theology).

[Curio]

I like that theory better than mine. And they could get around the religious part by just calling it "The Grail," "The Dark Grail," "The Golden Grail," or "Merlin's Grail."

[Souris]

"Regina's Grail."

[YaddaYadda]

It's probably an artifact that would be as powerful as the Dark One's dagger, that only one person can touch without being consumed by it. Wouldn't the dagger have a twin somewhere?  I mean there's darkness to light and foils and all that good stuff, so why wouldn't the dagger have its own counterpart?

 

Merlin loves creating dangerous stuff, the dark one's dagger, the hat that can cut the Dark One loose from the dagger, the version of the Dark Curse (I'm assuming that's his as well) that brought everyone to Storybrooke, the Author's quill that can remove will power.  This dude seems to be working on his very own version weapons of mass destruction.

 

He must be really bored.

Edited July 30, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Shanna Marie]

This dude seems to be working on his very own version weapons of mass destruction.

 

He must be really bored.

Now I'm picturing Leonard of Quirm in the Discworld books, merrily inventing all kinds of crazy stuff with no concept of how it might be used for evil.

[Writing Wrongs]

"Regina's Grail."

Why did I just go to a naughty place with that?

 

"RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!"

Edited July 30, 2015 by Writing Wrongs

[Souris]

LOL. "RUN AWAY!" indeed.

[LizaD]

This is usually reserved for Percival (who has been cast) or Galahad.  I'm guessing the knight in question though will be David.

Nah it's Woegina. It's Jane's episode so that's obviously Woegina centric. They'll think it's Charming or Percival or whomever but OMG SHOCKER it's Woegina aka the savior biggest victim biggest soul saint whom deserves the most happiness evah!

I feel like they won't do "centrics" per se because they won't have flashbacks to a place in a character's past but flash forwards to Dark Swan and Camelot in the present, so neither of those timelines can focus exactly on one character.

Is the flash forward a confirmed spoiler? Cause I feel like Dark Swan is the present and Camelot is the flashbacks. They're not going to leave Emma's evil deeds in the hypothetical as some possible future thing. I also don't ever think they'll let up on the centrics format. That's the formula crutch they use to juggle a large cast. You know so they can tell fans to shut their pie hole when they get things like "why was Belle asleep for 90% of the season?" Well she got a centric what more do you selfish fans want? We can't sacrifice Woegina's story!

[Souris]

This is an interesting theory I saw on Tumblr. I like it. It would explain why they bothered to cast Percival.

 

But it's probably not Regina-centric enough to actually happen.

[OnceUponAJen]

"Siege Perilous?" OK, I'll say it. Have a good time storming the castle!

Great bit of sleuthing about the seat for the finder of the Grail. I had not heard of that.

Edited July 30, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[OnceUponAJen]

This is an interesting theory I saw on Tumblr. I like it. It would explain why they bothered to cast Percival.

But it's probably not Regina-centric enough to actually happen.

That's just perfect! I'm excited to see what happens!

[RadioGirl27]

This is an interesting theory I saw on Tumblr. I like it. It would explain why they bothered to cast Percival.

But it's probably not Regina-centric enough to actually happen.

Interesting, but yeah, not enough Regina for A&E.

There are a lot of theories in Tumblr about Hook and Camelot, and some are really good (some others are terrible). I like the one about Hook and Arthur being half-brothers (I'm on my phone and I can't link it but it's on my Tumblr). But, really, the truth is that any of them is going to happen, so I will not get too invested in any of them.

[Souris]

I was a huge Arthurian geek during my college years, so I knew about the Siege Perilous. Of course, that makes it more likely I'll be annoyed by whatever they cook up, as it will mess with my beloved Arthurian head-canons.

[Writing Wrongs]

I have been watching some Arthur documentaries on Youtube lately and had just heard about "Siege Perilous". Interesting.

[LizaD]

Siege Perilous is also a thing in the Marvel universe and Disney owns that. I think it was some kind of mirror that was a portal to another realm or universe. But you get judged first for your actions or something like that. I don't remember a direct Arthurian connection. Maybe Merlin created it or something? That sounds something more up Once's alley and there's the mirror theme to connect it to Woegina centric.

Edited July 31, 2015 by LizaD

[Writing Wrongs]

From Marvel wiki:

Creates a portal which grants any person who walks through it a new chance at life, with a new career, home, and so forth. Sometimes people walking through it forget their old life, sometimes they remembered.

and

Originally given to the X-Men by Roma for defeating the Adversary, the intent was to allow the X-Men to start over with new lives if they became overwhelmed by being heroes.

Hmm. Even more interesting.

[Souris]

In-ter-esting. According to the Marvel wiki, the Siege Perilous is easily carried -- which makes me wonder if it will serve as Once’s non-religious version of the Holy Grail. If, of course, they go this route with it instead of the more likely traditional Arthurian seat version. Or they could somehow combine the two.

 

Its powers would certainly dovetail nicely with DarkSwan being a possible future.

 

Josh said something at SDCC about Charming being at his most heroic this season, and bro-ing hard with Arthur. So maybe he'll be the one to attain the Siege Perilous and save Emma, to let them avoid picking a "side" on either CS or SQ -- since they seem to want to keep SQ stringing along.

 

Some very interesting theories thrown out today. I'm sure whatever happens onscreen won't be any of them, as the interesting spec I fall in love with never happens on the show.

[Mari]

Nah it's Woegina. It's Jane's episode so that's obviously Woegina centric. They'll think it's Charming or Percival or whomever but OMG SHOCKER it's Woegina aka the savior biggest victim biggest soul saint whom deserves the most happiness evah!

I've started to be a little afraid when you put these ideas out there, because you seem to be freakishly accurate.  :)

 

I'd actually had thoughts about Regina being the one, simply because of the New Savior thing, but didn't want to release it to the universe, just in case.  

[Curio]

I really need to stop watching Adam & Eddy interviews; it isn't good for my health.

 

In a BuddyTV video from Comic-Con, the interviewer asks, "Is Merlin actually good? Should we actually think he's good?" This kind of goes along with what many of us have been speculating on here about Merlin—Merlin kind of sounds like a douchebag for tethering the darkness to one individual person, and by creating weird loopholes with the magic hat that's pretty useless and being annoyingly vague with his prophecies. But, surprise...what the writers presented on screen isn't what the writers intended based on A&E's answer:

"He was presented that he was good. He was presented to me as the opposite of the Dark One."

 

And this quote just makes me want to flip a table:

"[season 5 has] really focused everything back on our characters again. And we love it because it has this Season 1 vibe of Regina and Emma again and everyone dealing with an internal crisis as opposed to the last couple of seasons which has been an external crisis."

First: I'll believe character-driven season when I see it. Second: I'm sorry, but wasn't Season 1 actually more focused on Snow/Emma and Henry/Emma and their relationships? Regina was there, but she was more of the main villain they had to defeat. Or did I totally misinterpret what Season 1 was about?

Edited July 31, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

They also said this in one of their interviews

 

“Camelot is part of the first half.  The first half isn’t about Camelot.  The first half is about a family in crisis. It’s about Emma, and her loved ones, and her family, and how they deal with what she is going through.”

 

 

Is Camelot part of the whole season?

 

"He was presented that he was good. He was presented to me as the opposite of the Dark One."

 

I take this to mean that yes, he was the opposite of the Dark One.  He did fight him after all according to the Apprentice to stop the darkness from consuming the realms.  I'm thinking Merlin is the whole good gone bad which the show is so very fond of.  I'm still not ready to say that the guy is evil, but he sounds like a mad scientist.

 

I think he's Rumple's counterpart when Rumple was trying to find his son, where he manipulated and played with people to achieve his end result.  We didn't know what Rumple's endgame was during the curse other than he lost his son, but we didn't know the son was alive (or at least I don't remember if we knew or not).  We won't know what Merlin's endgame is either. But I'm pretty convinced he's after something or someone.

[Rumsy4]

Is Camelot part of the whole season?

I took that to mean Camelot would not be the sole focus of 5A (unlike the Frozen arc). I don't think it will extend to 5B.

[YaddaYadda]

I took that to mean Camelot would not be the sole focus of 5A (unlike the Frozen arc). I don't think it will extend to 5B.

 

Bubble effectively popped!

[LizaD]

He was presented that he was good. He was presented to me as the opposite of the Dark One."

I'm picturing the clowns patting themselves on the back for thinking they misled the poor suckers that is the audience, into not seeing their OMG shocking twist. I've said since the finale aired that black flubber IS Merlin and this just confirms it to me. He is presented as the opposite of the DO but omg we're so smart, you will never guess that he is the DO. It goes with their lightest of light is also the darkest of darkest thing. They're saying it's Emma but really it's Merlin. They also love to do this. Put the spotlight on Emma but their patented twist is that it's not Emma. Emma isn't even a real character anymore. She takes turn being the biggest red herring to have ever existed to being a prop for their St. Victim Mary Sue.

Season 5 has really focused everything back on our characters again.

I don't think they were saying 5A will be character driven here, I think they were reiterating that it will focus on the "core" characters again. Something they've been shouting from the rooftops since Frozen cause they got hammered online for it. What kills me though is that, they're so focused on the twitter stuff they're not seeing reality. The numbers don't bear this out. Frozen gave them their highest ratings since early S1. Their bad writing drove the Frozen crowd away. Their focus on "core" ala 4B gave them new demos lows. And yeah you can debate if 4B was really core focused or not but the thing is 4B IS what the clowns think is core focused. I'm not saying the core focus is the problem either. But the writers seem to think touting the core will solve all their problems and criticisms.

[RadioGirl27]

I don't think they were saying 5A will be character driven here, I think they were reiterating that it will focus on the "core" characters again.

They keep repeating this but then they add a gazillion guest and recurring characters and the "core" characters not named Regina are sidelined. That happened last season and it willhappen this season. They have already casted Merlin, Arthur, Gwen, Parcival and Merida, Lancelot is coming back, and Lily probably too. And we are just in episode 2.

Edited July 31, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[retrograde]

From the twits:

QUOTE

Miss Ford ‏@FordMiss

@AdamHorowitzLA you're probably not gonna reply to this but anyway, the first arc is Camelot but dark swan is the whole season theme?

Adam Horowitz ‏@AdamHorowitzLA

@FordMiss it's not as simple as that.

 

I'm looking forward to the dark swan thing, but I do hope it is wrapped up at the end of 5A.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm looking forward to the dark swan thing, but I do hope it is wrapped up at the end of 5A.

 

if they intend on making Merlin the villain (which I'm not really sure I buy), then Dark Swan might be wrapped up in the first half and the Camelot arc would continue for the whole season.

 

What if the darkness that is in Emma right now was in Merlin before and he managed to take it out of himself thinking he could defeated and then failed at it?  The Apprentice tried to contain the darkness in the hat when he took it out of Rumple.  What if that was the purpose of the hat all along?  Instead of Merlin building the hat for the purpose that Rumple wanted to use it for, he instead built it to try and contain the darkness, but underestimated how strong and powerful the darkness truly was?  So he had to fight it and lost and came up with the dagger idea instead.

 

As far as villainy, Merlin for me right now is the Author on steroids.  

 

Edited August 1, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Watt]

I bet it's going to take till the end of 5A to get Emma back to normal, but then 5b will be them dealing with the fallout and Emma dealing with her inevitable guilt that will cause her to pull away from everyone she loves even though she's the one who put them in that position to begin with.

[kili]

What if the darkness that is in Emma right now was in Merlin before and he managed to take it out of himself thinking he could defeated and then failed at it?  The Apprentice tried to contain the darkness in the hat when he took it out of Rumple.  What if that was the purpose of the hat all along?  Instead of Merlin building the hat for the purpose that Rumple wanted to use it for, he instead built it to try and contain the darkness, but underestimated how strong and powerful the darkness truly was?  So he had to fight it and lost and came up with the dagger idea instead.

 

But why would the Apprentice spend his life watching the hat if the hat that was known to be useless? Why not destroy it? Then the Apprentice could have gone and done something worth his time and there would be one less dangerous magical object out there. Thanks Merlin.

 

If Snow/Charming were evil for hoovering the evil out of their daughter and putting it in another baby, how evil do you have to be to dump your over-the-top evilness into random schmucks for eternity and have them run amuck? He sent the Apprentice to apologize to Lily for a small evil transplant, where is Zoso's, Rumple's and all their victim's apologies?

 

IDK, Merlin's motivations are terribly murky at this point. I would be hoping for an epiphany where everything becomes clear, but its TS, TW and I expect just to be informed I'm stupid by A&E when nothing about Merlin's motivations is ever explained or ever makes any sense.

 

So, I'm resigned to Merlin not making sense, so here is my crazy theory. He's Snow on steroids. His idea was that he was going to take all the evilness from all the people everywhere and stick it in the vault (you know somebody had to create that thing and Merlin seems to be the King of creating dangerous objects that will turn out badly).  That way, the world would be perfect and he was all Pollyanna-ish in his early days (bonus: Disney owns Pollyanna) and thought that would work. But, as all tales about things that should never be opened goes, some idiot gets tricked or curious and ends up opening it anyway (Mummies come back to life, dinosaurs escape their enclosures, Pandora's box gets opened). Boom! All the evilness attaches itself to that person and he's so evilly powerful, Merlin can't do much to stop him except tether him to the dagger (it's like putting a leash on a bear - it doesn't stop the bear from being dangerous and he's probably going to eat  you anyway, but you might just control him for a little bit and maybe escape).

 

The hat is a trap. Merlin starts a rumour that the hat will free the Dark One from the dagger, but when the Dark One takes the bait, it is the Dark One that is supposed to be hoovered up by the hat. But, Merlin has good ideas that don't work (he should totally be played by Dick Van Dyke as an homage to the hapless inventor he played in Chitty-Chitty-Bang-Bang even if that wasn't from Disney and a total rip-off of Mary Poppins). So, instead, the Apprentice really does think he is supposed to be protecting it and he actually is pretty good at his job. Meanwhile, Rumple's too smart to stand on the wrong side of the hat and the trap is easily foiled. And as it turns out, the hat never could have held the evil anyway. Fail Hat.

 

When they do find Merlin hidden in a cave trying to invent an automated hair-cutting machine,  he will admit that his knowing how to stop the Dark One was just another rumour that the Apprentice believed (the Apprentice was the most gullible man Merlin could find). Merlin started it in hopes that the Dark One would stay away from him (he also put Camelot in stasis as part of his cloaking spell to hide himself and the Dark One. He will have convinced himself it was for the good of the people and it will explain why Arthur is still alive 300 years after first sending the Jones brothers to get Dreamshade - and the original enemy they were going to kill with that Dreamshade was the Dark One. So, Killian getting all self-righteous about Weapons of Mass Destruction just ensured his hand would eventually be cut off and he ended up Dreamshading the Dark One anyway. A&E would love that kind of closed loop).  Our heroes will be disappointed that Merlin is no help at all on the Dark One front, but like all season finales, a helpful deux ex machina will show up in the last episode to helpfully resolve the entire issue (all you needed was a cat to scare the Dark One away forever).