Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[ShadowFacts]

If her actions affected anyone but Regina, yes, Emma's guilt could be in character. But not a person who had been trying to kill Emma's mother for years, tried to kill Emma after she was born, emotionally abused Emma's son for years, raped and killed a guy Emma was starting to fall for, tried to kill Emma, put her son into coma and then tried to kill everyone in Storybrooke. Oh, and Emma had *just* watched Regina burn her mother at the stake. If after all this, Emma's reaction is anything more than "I'm sorry, it sucks, but you brought this on yourself and I don't regret saving a life", I call bullshit.

Also, it's not like Regina suffered *that* much. She also had destroyed Emma's budding romance, once upon a time, by KILLING the guy. Did she feel guilt over it? Hell, did she ever apologize?..

I also don't think she should feel guilty about inadvertently making Regina come face to face with the consequences of her own actions.  If Regina is on any path to redemption that isn't some trumped up light-magic, she-may-not-have-a-heart-but-what-a-soul type of phony bull, here is step one.  Any 12-step program will guide her.  Admit your failings, made amends.  She can start off with killing her father and go from there right up to sentencing her boyfriend's wife to death and she can apologize to little Roland for taking his mother away.  Only one person needs to do any apologizing here, and it ain't Emma.

 

Edit:  Just noting that to keep it on topic, I am referring to the notions of Emma wanting to help Regina "stay" good and Regina being on her new path that Jennifer and Lana spoke about in their interviews/panels. Which on Lana's part was sort of delusional, but that's me.  Regina would not want me on any jury of any crime she was being tried for.

Edited July 28, 2014 by ShadowFacts

[Jean]

Jen and Colin are pretty funny. I see Jen has smartened up about the relationship stuff and left it to the writers to take that one. I love Robert but sometimes I can't make out what he's saying.

 

I really hope Elsa and Emma being friends happen and this is based on what she knows is coming and not what she wants. I wasn't all excited about Frozen at the end of last season but now I hope Elsa and Frozen co. are the biggest airhogs to ever hog. That way the characters I like will spend the littlelest amount of time possible with Woegina. Charming/Kristoff, Emma/Elsa, Rumple with Elsa and Anna etc. Maybe they'll be so popular they'll spin off the Charmings, Rumple, Emma, Hook and the Frozen people onto their own show.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Jean

[RadioGirl27]

I think Emma needs a friend, and the same go for Charming, Hook and almost any other characters. But I think it would be great if those friends actually stayed in the show longer than 11 episodes, so those friendships could last and be realistically explored.

I don't know, but every new bit of information about the new season that I read makes me less and less excited. Between the lack of an actual storyline for half the charcters and all the childish stuff that cames with Frozen, I hope 4B it's better (but I don't hold my breath).

[stealinghome]

I'm ridiculously excited for the 5% of the show that's actually going to deal with the Charmings. But, well...that can't outweigh my 95% of total blah/dread/indifference.

 

I'm pretty sure this show is officially going to turn into Saturday morning cartoon fare in 4A.

[angelwoody]

I'm a bit apprehensive about the Frozen story line.  I've been doing a re-watch of season one and the entire tone of the show seemed to be much darker back then than it was in the last season.  I don't want this to turn into something childish.    

[kili]

childish stuff that cames with Frozen

 

I'm not seeing the childish stuff with Frozen. It had a lot more mature themes than something like Snow White (Evil Queen tries to kill her step-daughter because a talking mirror says she is prettier, girl runs off to live with 7 men and gets animals to help her clean the house, girl dies by eating apple, but is brought back to life by some dude she sang a song with 90 minutes ago????). 

 

I think there is stuff there is a lot they can work with with Frozen. I think things like Sven are just setting the scene (just like the horses do in the Enchanted Forrest - the horses don't act like Maximus and neither will the reindeer). He'll just be in a stall or pulling a sleigh or something. It's not like you can get a reindeer to actually do any acting. They are actually pretty grumpy (and that warning on the script makes total sense). 

 

There are parallels between Anna and Belle, Emma and Elsa, and Kristoff, Charming and Hook that could be interesting. They aren't spoiling much, so we don't know much about what story lines they do have planned.

 

I do agree that the troll does give me pause (I hope he just gets a line or two even though I love the actor) and I'm hoping the Marshmallow design is left up to the CGI team that did the Flying Monkeys and not the one that did Medusa.

 

I've been thinking about Charming and his previous connections with the Arendelle people. I wonder if one of them washed up on a nearby shore. Could be the Mom (Elisabeth Mitchell) or perhaps Kristoff (after the sisters were urned).  He could have helped save one of them when he was still a shepherd and they may have wanted to not come to the attention of Rumple, so they pretended to be a peasent (this theory derived from talking about Twelfth Night this weekend).  I bet that Kristoff/Anna wedding gets ruined.

[Jean]

The "dark" adult-ish stuff sucks though. They can't deal with it properly or not at all. They usually just sweep it under the rug and act like it never happened. My standards are pretty low at this point. I just want to watch the pretty people and something other than Epic Victimization Saga of Woegina. I'll even watch Charming play patty cake with BabyNeal all episode long  versus some of the stuff they've given us. Also this show can use some light and humor. I think my favorite episodes last season were the Back to the Future stuff minus the last few minutes. Everytime they do "dark" or adult it usually means some poor character is getting thrown under an 18 wheeler to prop St. Woegina.

 

I can't tell if Josh is just trying to sell his story or what because I'm thinking his most likely connection is with Kristoff which shouldn't really be a big deal. Wasn't he saying the Rapunzel episode last year was a big game changer for Charming too? And nada.

[RadioGirl27]

I'm not seeing the childish stuff with Frozen. It had a lot more mature themes than something like Snow White (Evil Queen tries to kill her step-daughter because a talking mirror says she is prettier, girl runs off to live with 7 men and gets animals to help her clean the house, girl dies by eating apple, but is brought back to life by some dude she sang a song with 90 minutes ago?)

I actually saw Frozen last Saturday and, while I think it's really cute, I found it really simple and not that deep or interesting. And the characters aren't that great. I meam, Anna is not very clever and Kristoff is just there, he has no personality.

Many fairytales are like that, but Once has had the chance to twist them a bit. Some times it worked, some times it doesn't but at least they had the chance. But Frozen is Disney's new cashcow so they are not going to let them change anything so all that possible stories and paralels are really limited. And if one of the reasons of doing Frozen are the ratings the potential new viewers are little girls who love Elsa and Anna. So, yeah, what we get are trolls, reindeers and a giant snowman.

Edited July 28, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Serena]

I knew Robert would be dropping spoilers. Someone (not Belle) finds out about the dagger and blackmails Gold in episode 4.

 

Possibilities:

• Henry, because he'll be working at the shop and he may find it. But it doesn't seem in character. 
• Hook... Colin did say that he's "still a pirate".
• Regina... because she's Regina.
• someone random from the guest cast, meh.

 

I'm pulling for Hook!

[Rumsy4]

Someone (not Belle) finds out about the dagger and blackmails Gold in episode 4.

Possibilities:

• Henry, because he'll be working at the shop and he may find it. But it doesn't seem in character.
• Hook... Colin did say that he's "still a pirate".
• Regina... because she's Regina.
• someone random from the guest cast, meh.

I'm pulling for Hook!

Oh, cool!

I think it's either Hook or Regina. I'm pulling for Regina--she might be able to spot a fake Dagger more easily than Hook. Besides, would Hook be stupid enough to blackmail the Dark One? At least Regina has magic, and she might use the info as leverage to get Rumple to act against Marian. Dun dun dun...

Edited July 28, 2014 by Rumsy4

[kili]

Someone (not Belle) finds out about the dagger and blackmails Gold in episode 4.

 

I wonder if blackmail could be for something other than money (e.g. to get Rumple to do some magic for free).

 

Given that Henry will be working at the shop and can defeat Rumple's cloaking mechanisms with blood magic (I bet Rumple doesn't think of that angle), he's the most logical to find the dagger, but it's completely out of character for him to blackmail people. He'll guilt the crap out of somebody, but not blackmail. Although he did kind of blackmail Emma into taking him home (said he would tell the police she kidnapped him if he didn't), but the only thing of that sort I could  see him saying in this case is  "If you don't tell Belle, I will". Maybe he finds it and gives it to somebody else who blackmails.

 

I hope it's not Hook that finds it. I can't really see how he would have access to the real dagger to figure it out (unless he snatches the fake dagger from Belle's purse, tries to get Rumple to dance like a chicken and Rumple strangles him to death instead). Hook's quest to destroy the Dark One with the dagger was long and almost sacred.It would seem almost disrespectful to Milah, Emma and even himself if he suddenly found the dagger and chooses to use it for profit.  Being able to step back from his revenge relationship from Rumple has allowed him to grow towards redemption. To use such a powerful totem of that revenge for something trivial seems kind of gross. Hook may be a pirate, but that would be terrible form for him to do that given his history.

 

Regina might be able to find it, but is she the blackmailing type? She'd just use the dagger to make Rumple do things - no blackmail required. I suppose if she only knowledge of the ruse, blackmail could be an option. But Regina is about as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face. I can't see her doing something subtle like blackmailing somebody. And since she gave the dagger to Belle in the first place, I think she too would just want him to tell her the truth.

 

It cannot be Snow because she would blurt out the secret to Belle within 2 seconds of seeing her.

 

Now Emma or Charming....I could see them using blackmail. Both of them are very pragmatic. They would both realize that telling Belle straight up helps nobody, but if Rumple is being intransigent about helping with the Frozen problem, how about a little blackmail to nudge him along?

[Serena]

I do think ultimately it will be one of the Frozen people. Like Hans, if he's gonna appear in SB and cause problems, he's gonna need an angle. He may ally himself with the Snow Queen/Mitchell's character, but he doesn't have magic and everyone distrusts him, so why would she need him? But if he somehow gets hold of Rumple's dagger, he could be dangerous.

 

Tyler Jacob Moore is Hans. He'll appear first in 403 and be recurring.

Has anyone spotted Mitchell in Vancouver yet? I haven't heard anything.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Serena

[stealinghome]

It's gotta be Regina or one of the Frozen-ites.

[kili]

Like Hans, if he's gonna appear in SB and cause problems, he's gonna need an angle.

 

Actually, I can totally believe that slimeball might do it (although, what is his story for getting to Storybrooke? I might buy the sisters being urned and Kristoff conveniently being there, but Hans? I'm going to need a good story served up with that coincidence).

 

It would also fit into Adam and Eddie getting a little bit of a look when asked if somebody non-magical will ever be a villain.

 

I would laugh like a loon if Hans gets the dagger because Rumple was tricking Belle and it would have been safer in Belle's purse all along ("Never mess with thte contents of a woman's purse" is more of a truism than "All magic comes with a price"). Time to pop some popcorn and settle into a comfy chair to watch as karma kicks Rumple in the butt again. Hans totally would make Rumple dance like a chicken too.

 

ETA: The actor looks like he can laddle on the smarm.

 

"Hans has lost his mean streak as he's described as having a serious chip on his shoulder and a burning desire to be king." ....I'm going to be a mighty king, so enemies beware....I just can't wait to be king! He'd totally have fun with that dagger or blackmailing Rumple.

Edited July 28, 2014 by kili

[Joenigma]

 

Someone (not Belle) finds out about the dagger and blackmails Gold in episode 4.

Possibilities:

    Henry, because he'll be working at the shop and he may find it. But it doesn't seem in character.

    Hook... Colin did say that he's "still a pirate".

    Regina... because she's Regina.

    someone random from the guest cast, meh.

I'm pulling for Hook!

 

I don't know why, but I'm hoping it's Sidney.

[KingOfHearts]

Regina gave the dagger to belle in the first place, though. I would, however, love if Rumple had to answer to Regina. Those two have been in a power struggle for years, so seeing the tables turn would be kind of funny.

I really hope a Frozen character joins the main cast. I know there are too many characters, but if Robin goes with Marian and Neal is dead, a man like Hans annoying the crap out of everyone would be welcomed from me. Most of the villains on the show are on the redemption route, so a gray/evil character joining the cast might help balance it out.

Prince Mills ship. Calling it now.

Edited July 29, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[retrograde]

I think the writers confirmed that the Frozen toys are all going back on the shelf at the end of 4A.

 

I also wish there was a bona fide villain around, but the problem is the setting of Storybrooke doesn't really allow for it. It was one thing when it was Rumple or Regina—people deeply embedded within the town—but for any outsiders who come in now, the Nevengers are just going to fight them until they're gone. 

[ParadoxLost]

So my memory is crap.  I just watched the season 4 preview from comic con.

 

The scene where they transition from S1-3 to Frozen where Emma falls from a rope bridge while Regina watches is that prior seasons or 4?

[kili]

The scene where they transition from S1-3 to Frozen where Emma falls from a rope bridge while Regina watches is that prior seasons or 4?

 

Season 3. It was in the Jolly Roger episode. While Killian is off being tricked by the Fake Ariel, Regina is teaching Emma magic. Regina decides that putting stress on Emma is the only way to get her to do magic, so she causes the bridge to fall. Emma saves herself by rebuilding the bridge in a free-form pattern.

[KingOfHearts]

If they played Hans right, I don't think the Nevengers would try to take him down right away like Zelena. If he's sneaky and manipulative like he was in the movie, then he might have a chance to stick around. Outsmarting the good guys isn't a difficult task on this show, anyway. If Zelena had half a mind, they'd all be dead by now.

If Hans and Regina scheme together... Well, that's a power couple right there. They could probably concoct a way to rule the town together if they really tried.

It's really sad they want to cut off 4A's plot elements as soon as it's over. It makes it sound extremely disappointing to me. If it's just going to conclude itself, there's not much point in watching. I honestly don't give a crap about what happens with the Frozen plot except if it directly affects the main cast in the long run.

Edited July 29, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[l star]

I'm going with Henry finds it and knows from Belle that it is not where it should be. He shows it to Regina and she blackmails Rumple with it. While I think she will want him to tell Belle the truth, it would be completely Regina to want something first.

[Jean]

I love Robert "I don't give a damn" Carlyle and his, here have a major plot spoiler in episode 4, self. I'm going to go with Hans who's coincidentally introduced in the 3rd episode or the Snow Queen since they love to pit Rumple against all the villains. If it's Woegina I'm going to have to finally turn this show off. Unless the end result is he kills her.

So episode 4 is probably Rumple and/or Belle centric. I also noticed Jen said that whatever's going on in past Arendelle is going to be parallel to the modern stuff so does this mean the fairybacks are all going to be purely Frozen? And that in some contrived way they interacted with the forest folks?

[Souris]

So somebody finds out about the dagger, but clearly they don't gain possession of the dagger, or there would be no need for blackmail -- they'd be controlling him.

 

My guess is that the person who finds out is either Regina, Hook or Henry. Since Henry is going to be in the shop, he makes the most sense in terms of access, but I don't know about the blackmail aspect. (Hmmm, would he blackmail Rumple into teaching him magic?) Lana did say that Regina "had something up her sleeve," which could be the dagger. Or she could have been referring to Sidney. But it would totally be Regina's style. I hope it's not Hook, but Colin did mention the "still a pirate and a bad boy" in several interviews. I wonder what he would want from Rumple? Maybe if Emma is having trouble with her magic, making him help her? (I'm doubting she'd ask Regina, given the circumstances.)

Edited July 29, 2014 by Souris

[kitticup]

Awhile ago pre Comic con in Speculation thread, I speculated that:

Elsa was “urned” by Rumple perhaps as a favor to the Black Fairy Snow Queen [Elizabeth Mitchell].  Rumple doesn’t want Belle to know that he is responsible for destroying Elsa’s happiness, so he keeps quiet about what he knows and his suspicion that Black Fairy is behind everything.  Maybe the Black Fairy knows the truth about the dagger and blackmails Rumple.

 

 

I now revise it and instead of Black Fair/Snow Queen, it is Hans.  Rumple made deal with Hans to urn Elsa and Anna.  Hans is the one to figure out about the dagger. 

 

I think Hook may figure out Rumple is being blackmailed and is torn between seeing Rumple suffer and helping Rumple -- maybe? 

Edited July 29, 2014 by kitticup

[Souris]

I think Hook may figure out Rumple is being blackmailed and is torn between seeing Rumple suffer and helping Rumple -- maybe? 

 

Hmm, that could be an interesting development. Nice idea! Though his level of torn-ness would depend on what Rumple was being blackmailed to do, I would imagine.

 

The more I think about it, blackmailing Rumple is a really dodgy proposition. If the blackmailer has the dagger, no need for blackmail. If s/he doesn't have the dagger, what's to stop Rumple from killing them or turning them into a rose and pruning off their legs? He's not going to let somebody just get away with that unmolested. So I think either the blackmailer has strong magic of their own (Regina/Elizabeth Mitchell's character/Elsa) or it's somebody Rumple doesn't want to harm and would allow to "get away with" the blackmail (Henry, I think, would be the only character Rumple would balance against Belle not finding out about the betrayal).

 

Lindsay B

‏@lemon_buzz

#OUAT is filming today and tomorrow in Stanley Park

Edited July 29, 2014 by Souris

[InsertWordHere]

Maybe Sidney finds out about the dagger while doing his grunt work for Regina. Before Comic Con, I didn't think Sidney was going to be a major player, but since one of the two scenes they chose to show featured him, maybe he is going to play a bigger role.

 

ETA:

 

The more I think about it, blackmailing Rumple is a really dodgy proposition.

Yeah, how would that even work? Even if Rumple wasn't willing to kill that person (and I think he'd be willing to kill anyone besides Henry or Belle at this point), he could always alter the person's memory so they wouldn't remember that he gave Belle a fake dagger. Regina easily altered Henry's memory in Season 2 and I'm positive Rumple could too with maybe a little hesitation if the blackmailer was someone Bae cared about, like Emma or Henry. Unless the blackmailer has some sort of elaborate plan in place like they wrote themselves a letter or wrote Belle a letter which will automatically be sent to her if anything happens to the blackmailer. I think you are right and it must be someone magical who Rumple is unable to fight against for whatever reason.

Edited July 29, 2014 by InsertWordHere

[retrograde]

I'm down with it being Hook, so long as he has a good reason. I don't think he would he would do it just to be cruel or as an extension of his former revenge vendetta, but I doubt he cares much for Gold and I think his moral compass is probably still pretty bit skew-whiff. If Gold was standing in the way of something he, Emma, or Henry wanted or needed, I don't think he'd hesitate to blackmail him without really seeing the problem with it (and if Gold is being a dick, maybe there isn't one). I think it would be interesting to see Emma have to deal with his more villainous side.

 

I kind of hate the idea of it being a Frozen character, because I'm pretty positive it would just become a tiresome plot device. Like Zelena having the dagger last season. In fact, now I think about it, a straight-up villain blackmailing Gold to do things would kind of be a repeat. 

 

So my hope is that it's Hook and he uses it to get Emma cheap rent on her new apartment.

[RadioGirl27]

I knew Robert would be dropping spoilers. Someone (not Belle) finds out about the dagger and blackmails Gold in episode 4.

 

Possibilities:

• Henry, because he'll be working at the shop and he may find it. But it doesn't seem in character. 
• Hook... Colin did say that he's "still a pirate".
• Regina... because she's Regina.
• someone random from the guest cast, meh.

* Henry is the only one who can find the dagger and he is a not very clever kid, but blackmailing Rumple is too much even for the Truest Believer.

* Colin said that Hook is "still a pirate", but he also said that Hook is "trying to be the man Emma deserves", so unless he thinks the man Emma deserves is a dead man, it makes no sense for him to blackmail someone like Rumple, someone who hates him and would kill him without thinking.

* Regina would be to busy with Marian and Robin.

So yeah, it has to be someone from the Frozen guest cast, someone too stupid (Hans) or too powerful (maybe whoever E. Mitchell is playing) to consider that blackmailing the Dark One is a good idea.

[CatMack]

 

Tyler Jacob Moore is Hans. He'll appear first in 403 and be recurring.

I just started watching Shameless a week ago.  This actor can definitely do the smarmy "I'm your best friend except actually I'm a giant douche" routine.

Edited July 29, 2014 by CatMack

[myril]

So somebody finds out about the dagger, but clearly they don't gain possession of the dagger, or there would be no need for blackmail -- they'd be controlling him.

 

 

Had the same thought. Finding out about the dagger doesn't mean finding the dagger. While blackmailing when one could control the Dark One for their own purposes. After all Rumple lied and pointed out, that Belle had the (fake) dagger, so he pretend couldn't have been involved in   the disappearance of Zelena.

 

That implies to me as well, that it won't be Regina - she is one of the people Rumple might have some interest to hide the fact from that he has the real dagger and is in control of himself again. Regardless how busy she will be with her soulmate disaster

Henry - unless they decide it's time for him to be not just stupid acting but evil can't see him blackmailing his granddad.

Hook - what for should he blackmail Rumple? Unless for safety of his life. But Hook should be pirate enough to know that knowing about the dagger is not enough, quite the opposite, it could make Rumple feel inclined to find a way to get rid of him.

One of the Frozen characters - could be, but Rumple could very well look for a nice way to cause a little accident, and the person is gone, unless she or he has some powers on her/his own. Who would miss Hans?

 

All that said, all is still possible, because logic is not the strongest in the story telling of Once.

 

After reading, that they have cast John Rhys-Davies to voice Pabbie (no geek adventure show is complete without him, lol), had the thought, it would be funny, if they'd cast William Shatner as voice for a troll as well at some point, or something else.

Edited July 29, 2014 by katusch

[Serena]

Well, Shatnet is a OUAT fan, so I wouldn't be surprised if they gave him a quick voiceover role one of those days. 

[kili]

The preview from ComicCon finally kind of leaked. This youtube video features the audio and pictures starting at the 37 second mark.

 

Scene: We hear clicking of hills and then a door creaking open (obviously hasn't been opened for a while.Tense music.

Sidney: What are you doing here?

Regina: I need my mirror (crowd goes wild) There is someone sending away my happiness. I need you to help remove them.

(Mirror has a beard and looks a little rough)

[ShadowFacts]

Oh that preview of Sidney is a real strong indication that Regina is on a path to redemption - my ass!  How in the hell can she be full of light magic that conquers wicked witches when she still has that poor sap locked up in solitary?  Let alone all the murder, attempted murder, rape, enslavement that she has never been prosecuted for? Much less atoned for.  I am really rooting for Robin + Marian 4ever.  Regina needs a Law and Order SVU level of stalker, that's the kind of love she deserves.

[Joenigma]

 

So somebody finds out about the dagger, but clearly they don't gain possession of the dagger, or there would be no need for blackmail -- they'd be controlling him.

What if Marian took the fake dagger from Belle to try and get Rumple to hurt Regina; only to find out it's a fake and she's black mailing him to either Protect herself and her family from Regina or to help her to "expose" Regina is still evil. I could even see her using Roland as justification and Rumple would understand where she is coming from. And this would be how Rumple is also invovled in that plot.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Joenigma

[retrograde]

* Henry is the only one who can find the dagger and he is a not very clever kid, but blackmailing Rumple is too much even for the Truest Believer.

If Henry is hanging around Rumple and the shop, he could find it and inadvertently tell someone else without realizing what he has uncovered.

 

The sneak with Anna and Elsa has also leaked.

[kili]

The sneak with Anna and Elsa has also leaked.

 

Yay! Thanks for finding that. I knew somebody in the crowd must have filmed it.

 

I really  like Elsa (although, is she going to have to wear that dress the entire time? She's as bad as Hook with her iconic outfit so maybe she too will have to wear it for her entire run). I'm not as sold on Anna. You could totally see her acting and the chemistry between the two sisters wasn't great. It finished nicely. I suppose I shouldn't judge on a 1 minute clip. Vancouver looked fabulous.

[sharky]

Wow. Yea, not sure about the acting but the scene seems epic in tone. I wonder how exactly this Frozen is going to play compared to past seasons -- could be really good!

[l star]

I liked Elsa a lot but the Anna actress was missing all of Anna's charm. I can't see this girl being scared and confused but able to lift her chin and be The Princess because she recognized that that was what everyone needed. Then again this Anna barely seemed affected staring at her parents' graves.

 

I loved the Regina/Sidney clip. I was sad when they got rid of the mirror. That relationship was just so hilariously twisted. It was a great example of the kind of crazy that is only in fairy tales. It will be fun to see Regina with her number one lackey again but I still want to know where all her black knights went. How did they not come with her?

 

I think the biggest similarity between Emma and Elsa will be that they were both screwed over by their parents' good intentions. I think both parents did what they thought was best but that doesn't mean it didn't suck for their daughters. Emma grew up in foster care and Elsa grew up locked away. If Emma's magical abilities did show themselves when she was very young, that would be another similarity. Both were taught that there was something wrong and dangerous about them that they couldn't control. Whoever suggested that baby Neal brings back bad memories for Emma had a really interesting idea. If Emma bounced around a lot later, it is entirely possible no one saw the weirdness long enough to really catch on that something was different. She would just be that strange kid. But in her first home, if she was told she was getting a new baby sibling and everyone was excited then little things started happening until finally the family chose the baby over Emma, that could come back up in a bad way watching Snowing with baby Neal.

 

I think Regina having the dagger and only choosing to use it to blackmail Rumple would be a great way to show how far she's come. I'm pretty sure I have different redemption standards for her but having the ability to do really evil things and only choosing to do a little bit of bad instead sounds pretty awesome to me. I'm expecting her self-absorption to show up in massive quantities during whatever the Frozen fight will be. Just for instance- with the dagger she could have Rumple kill Elizabeth Mitchell and nip the whole problem in the bud. Instead she uses him to kick Marion's puppy and the opportunity is missed.

[Featherhat]

The clip was ok, I'm assuming (hoping) things will be a lot better when we have more than 1 minute of footage and its property quality etc. I think we're seeing the fact that Anna's actress is literally fresh out of drama school and maybe she'll get better as she gets more comfortable and experienced. 

 

I think both parents did what they thought was best but that doesn't mean it didn't suck for their daughters.

 

I do give Snowing more of a pass there, because the literally had to do it to save her life when she was 2 minutes old. Elsa's parents obviously had their reasons and thought they were helping and protecting there daughters plural. But they had several years to come up with "accept and control" rather than "repress and be a recluse".

[Jean]

Well Emma and Elsa were both done in by a prophecy.  The troll in Frozen told a prophecy and that spooked Elsa's parents. Snowing got Rumple the imp's brand of "prophecy."

 

I wonder if they'll explore the origins of Elsa's powers and tie that into Emma's, beyond the lame-o true love baby thing. That's something they can add on their own without affecting the movie. Cause now that true love couples are popping up like weed, are they going to give every one of them powers too? If not I want an explanation beyond well some do and some just don't. And they never explained why Zelena was born with magic either.

[kili]

I wonder if they'll explore the origins of Elsa's powers and tie that into Emma's, beyond the lame-o true love baby thing.

 

I think the magic is  linked to a recessive gene. Zelena's parents clearly weren't true love. It wasn't even sort of kind of love. It was a total scam-a-rama.

 

Emma gets a boost in the heart protecting thing due to her True Love parentage combined with innate magic ability. Charming and Snow each carry a recessive magic gene and their children have a 25% chance of being magical. If their children marry somebody without a magical recessive gene, the children of that pairing will just be magic carriers. If they marry somebody with a recessive magical gene, there is a 50% the kids of that pairing  will be magical.

 

I suspect that Elsa comes by her magic in the same way (and that Anna is either just a magical carrier or not magical at all).

 

Anyway, that is my head cannon.

[BoPeeps]

The intensely private Carlyle never seems to respect the spirit of the cons, etc (grin)  He speaks "spoiler" fluently.

[MaiLuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNemvBP7Xb4&feature=youtu.be

 

2 Lies & 1 Truth with the cast! That's a fun way to give spoilers.

[Serena]

Wow, how could it be possible for Eddy to drop "Hook gets his hand back" right there like it's nothing? I intensely don't want it to be true, but if it is, I'm guessing he IS the one who blackmails Gold, and he wants the hand. 

[Kaw912]

Wow, how could it be possible for Eddy to drop "Hook gets his hand back" right there like it's nothing? I intensely don't want it to be true, but if it is, I'm guessing he IS the one who blackmails Gold, and he wants the hand.

Sometimes I think Adam and Eddie read more Fanfic than we do.

[Joenigma]

 

Wow, how could it be possible for Eddy to drop "Hook gets his hand back" right there like it's nothing? I intensely don't want it to be true, but if it is, I'm guessing he IS the one who blackmails Gold, and he wants the hand.

Maybe. I wonder his spoiler could be linked to the one Colin was struggling to say. What if Emma and Hook are kissing and Emma magically brings his hand back inadvertainly. And that could freak her out causing the drama in that relationship....you know like how can you possibly have a serious relationship with someone if you can magically change any flaw you see in them? Which would then make her able to relate more to Regina and Rumple and their struggle with relationships....

Edited July 29, 2014 by Joenigma

[Souris]

What with the what now? I came in to write something fairly boring, and instead Hook getting his hand back is in here? Alrighty then.

 

Maybe they couldn't figure out a good way for the hook prop to work with modern clothes, given the uneven arm length that it creates? If that's what Hook blackmails him over, that's not too bad. Hmm, I could also see Henry coming across Hook's hand in his shop-work and making Rumple give it back. I could also see Joenigma's theory. That would certainly be a big magic thing that would freak Emma out.

 

Makeout session with groping

Hook: I have never wanted my other hand back as much as I do right now.

Emma: Me, too! ::POOF::

Hook: ....

Emma: ....

Emma: See ya!

 

Speaking of Henry and the shop, what I came in to say is that I could see there being Hook/Emma tension over Henry working for Gold in the shop. Given their history, I think Hook would be very against it, and Emma would be all "You're not his parent! Back off! Gold is his grandfather!"

Edited July 29, 2014 by Souris

[stealinghome]

I think the biggest similarity between Emma and Elsa will be that they were both screwed over by their parents' good intentions. I think both parents did what they thought was best but that doesn't mean it didn't suck for their daughters. Emma grew up in foster care and Elsa grew up locked away.

I don't disagree, but if the show tries to pretend that Elsa's parents locking her up because they're morons is totally the same thing as Snow and Charming sending Emma away to save her life, I will flip a table. I really need the show to stop pretending like Snow and Charming a) are at fault for what happened to Emma and b) didn't do the best possible thing for her.

 

I'm loling that one of Emilie de Ravin's was "You see me wearing flats." Hee. Also, Colin O is so bad at this game it's hilarious! And I died laughing when Lana just deadpanned "Regina's a man." Bwah!

Edited July 29, 2014 by stealinghome

[Curio]

I'm kind of conflicted about the possibility of Hook getting his hand back. Once he gets his new clothes, that hook is basically the only iconic thing left in his outfit that makes him Hook. If that "truth" ends up being true, then I hope they play it out in a way where maybe Henry discovers Hook's hand in the shop and gives it back to Hook, but Hook decides against magically re-attaching it because his hook is a symbol of what he went through in the past and a reminder to never go down that path again. (I think Jane Espenson mentioned something like that on Twitter, too.) But at least he would be in possession of his hand instead of it being displayed in a pawn shop.

 

ETA: This might also be my own personal bias since I always thought they'd save the big moment of Hook getting his hand back until closer towards the end of the series, when he can officially go from Captain Hook to Killian Jones full-time.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Curio

[Jean]

If they're giving Hook his hand back then its probably because they couldn't figure out a way to cover the prop without billowing sleeves and a 50lb jacket. But you know who says that's the truth?

 

It could be Snow and Charming in a one sentence joke thrown in. Like Snow is being cranky and says "I'm getting a divorce." That would still make their spoiler a truth. Or Gold is moving to a new house on "San Francisco St." in Storybrook.