Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Dani-Ellie]

I think it would be good character growth for Emma to trust someone else to help her out of this situation.

This. Plus, after four full seasons of Emma being expected to be the savior for everyone, I'm more than ready for everyone to return the favor. Operation Save the Savior is a go, as far as I'm concerned.

[Souris]

 

 

Replying in Writers.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Souris

[RadioGirl27]

What's so offensive about all this is that Emma is evil for doing something any hero would do. She sacrificed herself for the whole town and instead of getting paid for it she's going to get demolished as the town savior and after this whole story arc is done she'll be the first villain of this series to apologize for all terrible things they've done.

This. Emma did something selfless, brave and heroic, and she is going to end up being "a dangerous villain" (Adam words, not mine) because of it. This is so wrong. And the worst part of it is that they are doing it to justify other character actions ("See, even Emma can't resist the darkness. How could have Rumple?").

 

they know people are worried about this whole Emma going evil and from the ending of last season, the expectations are really high that Snowing and Hook will be front and center for this one.  They can obviously do whatever they want, but it would be a huge miss if they decided to forgo Snowing in all of this.

Many fans are expecting it because the finale seemed to be foreshadowing it, but, really, there has been so many foreshadowing in this show that never paid off that I think the fans expecting a TLK or a group effort with Hook, Henry, Snow and Charming are going to be so, so disappointed. If this is really Carlyle's last season, I think it's going to be Rumple the one to save her. If not, then Regina or someone from Camelot. Hell, Emma herself, Lily, Zelena and Belle are higher in the list of possible "saviors" than Hook, Snow and Charming. Ok, here I'm exagerating, but you get what I mean. A&E don't care about Snowing at all and they have been actively trying to destroy them since season 2, and, while they seem to care a bit more about Hook, it's not enough to give him a whole storyline, as season 4 has proved.

 

[Serena]

JMO is back in Van. 

[mjgchick]

I think it would be good character growth for Emma to trust someone else to help her out of this situation. I think she is going to need the love of her family and friends to help her.

Her asking her parents to save her as heroes was huge. We all know Emma can take care of herself but the fact she thrust her loved ones to be the ones to help her out of this situation is why she decided to sacrifice everything for all of them. I still remember that scene where Snow said "You better get use to people putting you first." I'm still waiting for someone other than Hook to put Emma first. lol

I want her hat.

Edited July 7, 2015 by mjgchick

[YaddaYadda]

Am I the only one on #TeamEmma for saving Emma? It's great and all that people are worried about who will save her from the Dark One's powers, but I ultimately just want Emma to say screw it and save herself at the end of the day. "The only one who saves me is me."

No, I don't believe you are.  I think the difference right now is that she can basically get all the help she can get and she's no longer alone in the world where she has to rely only on herself to save herself.  She has people who love her, a boyfriend who would literally die for her.  I think at the end of the day, it's about her embracing all of this and letting people help her especially when the darkness makes her deviate from her path.

 

I've been seeing some things come up with the last two cons that we had and how Colin said at both something about liking Dark Hook.  I'm not sure that's a coincidence.  I'm not saying he's going to revert to his season 2 pre-redemption arc, but I can see him going where Snowing won't, especially after she told them to take the darkness out of her but to do it as heroes.

[Watt]

I love those pap pics of them at the airport. I get so excited!

[retrograde]

The airport photos always make me uncomfortable. Flying makes you feel gross and the actors are basically cornered there by paps and fans. Still, excited for filming to begin again.

[YaddaYadda]

I can't even begin to understand where these people get their information to know who is coming into town and around what time that they're there just waiting for them.

[Souris]

I'd imagine they know when all the flights from L.A. arrive & just hang out then.

[sharky]

Yea, I'm assuming these are paps in Vancouver just hanging around the airport. I doubt Once is the only show that begins filming in Vancouver this week.

[RadioGirl27]

I've been seeing some things come up with the last two cons that we had and how Colin said at both something about liking Dark Hook. I'm not sure that's a coincidence. I'm not saying he's going to revert to his season 2 pre-redemption arc, but I can see him going where Snowing won't, especially after she told them to take the darkness out of her but to do it as heroes.

If they think it's cool and an amazing twist I can see A&E throwing all of Hook's redemption arc and character development out of the window and have him do something stupid to get Emma back, something that, of course, Snow and Charming would use against him for the rest of the series. Edited July 7, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[sharky]

They can't really use much against him at this point though considering Charming killed him. :)

 

I actually have no problem with Hook going dark or at least using his pirate skills to get Emma back. And I actually do wonder how far the rest of them will go along with him. I could also see a possibility where if Emma doesn't remember them, Hook "goes dark" as a right-hand man to Emma while really trying to keep her on the straight and narrow until they can find a solution for the Dark Curse. I know I may be giving these writers too much credit, but I think there is a way for Hook to go dark without going dark dark.

[orza]

I've been seeing some things come up with the last two cons that we had and how Colin said at both something about liking Dark Hook.  I'm not sure that's a coincidence.  I'm not saying he's going to revert to his season 2 pre-redemption arc, but I can see him going where Snowing won't, especially after she told them to take the darkness out of her but to do it as heroes.

 

I don't think it means anything. A lot of actors say stuff like that because it really is more interesting to play a villain or deranged person or any character who is radically different than the actor's own personality and.or previous roles. I doubt Colin knows much about what his character will be doing this season beyond what he has read in the first or second script.

[sharky]

They've actually talked to the actors about where their general storylines are going so Colin at least knows what's going to happen to Hook this season, probably all the way through to the season 5 finale. Maybe not very specifics, but definitely the general path that he'll be on.

[YaddaYadda]

Apparently they'll be exploring the origins of the scar he has on his face (or Hook has on his face) or something?  (I'd rather they explore his origins, but at this point...)

[orza]

How do you know this? I've seen plenty of interviews where actors have said they don't know what is happening with their character because they haven't seen a script yet but none where they said they were briefed on their character's story arc.

[Curio]

I think it's all speculative at this point. The writers have probably told the actors the broad strokes of where they'll take the characters (which they can and probably will change in the future when a new shiny object distracts them), but the actors themselves only know for certain the details of the first script, which we'll hear more about during Comic-Con. Everything else needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

[orza]

That is my point. People post some speculation or made-up shit on tumblr and pretty soon others are repeating it like it is fact. The actors are all very careful to be vague and even evasive at conventions and interviews mostly because they don't know much and have also signed NDAs.

[kili]

Apparently they'll be exploring the origins of the scar he has on his face (or Hook has on his face) or something?

 

I hope they treat it like Harrison Ford's scar. I've seen various movies where they explain it, but its never a big deal (Indiana Jones got it from his whip while trying to fend of a lion on a train while his Working Girl character got it when he passed out while getting his ear pierced and hit his chin on the toilet on the way down).  They can make it some amusing anecdote or have wee Kilian whack himself with a sword in a flashback.

 

(I'd rather they explore his origins, but at this point...)

 

We aren't seeing his back-story unless they need to introduce a new character from the days of yore.

 

The actors are all very careful to be vague and even evasive at conventions and interviews mostly because they don't know much and have also signed NDAs.

 

I hope they play two truths and a lie again - I think we got more spoilers out of that than anything last year.

[HoodlumSheep]

So behind on the latest news :(. Maybe snow will have an identity crisis and she'll die her hair blonde. She'll probably just wear a wig.

Also, that Dark Swan picture is going to give me nightmares. It's freaky.

[RadioGirl27]

They've actually talked to the actors about where their general storylines are going so Colin at least knows what's going to happen to Hook this season, probably all the way through to the season 5 finale. Maybe not very specifics, but definitely the general path that he'll be on.

I doubt the actors know anything past the premiere. In fact, the have said so more than once, than they discover what is going to happen when they read the scripts, but not before. Colin said once (during season 3) that he didn't know what Hook was hiding or what had happened to the Jolly until he read the scripts. So I doubt he knows more than the generic "Hook is going to fight to save Emma".

Maybe Robert, Jennifer and Lana have more info about their characters' arcs, but Colin (or Emilie, Jared, Josh)? I doubt it.

Apparently they'll be exploring the origins of the scar he has on his face (or Hook has on his face) or something? (I'd rather they explore his origins, but at this point...)

He was joking with some fans that asked him about the scar. He explained them how he got it and when they asked him how he thought that Hook got it, he just said that maybe someday they showed it on the show, not that they were going to do it. Edited July 7, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[sharky]

Right, but they have a general idea of what's coming next. At Comic Con last year, we got the spoilers about Colin doing a wardrobe fitting and the thing about Hook's hand. All those happened in the fourth episode, which they hadn't even received a script for at that point. And yes, they may not know details, but they have a general idea. I'm sure they knew who gets the dagger and who's going where before they even got the first script. 

[Delphi]

Ginny knows what is happening with Snow's character I figure. ..because she hasn't had an arc since Season 2.

[retrograde]

I think for Comic Con San Diego, TPTB actually feed them some spoilers and talking points. Certainly last year it seemed they knew some specific plot points but not really the context around them. 

 

Perhaps the writers actually sit down with each actor and talk through their arc for the season, but I think that would be unusual. Most TV actors I've seen interviewed say they only find out what is happening to their character when they get a script. And in the case of Once, the actors are in a different country to the writers most of the time, so they're probably not communicating all that much.

[formerlyfreedom]

With ComicCon San Diego almost upon us, just a reminder - please post the actual Spoilers in the SPOILERS ONLY: OUAT topic, and then come here to discuss them. This will allow folks who aren't able to keep up with the ample discussion to read the Spoilers, and then come back here to read the discussion when they are able. If you post a spoiler here, it may be moved over there, and it is possible that any commentary that you include will be lost.

 

Thanks for your help! And now for something completely different...

 

 

 

A Bunny as Snow White...

[sharky]

Oh, bunny!

 

Also, not to be a pest, but how are we handling spoilers if they are part of an interview? Does the whole interview get posted in the media thread and then the spoiler from it in the spoiler thread? Can you just post the interview in the media thread and talk about it here? There's going to be some overlap I'm assuming so just want to make sure we're doing it right before we get flooded with things.

[formerlyfreedom]

Also, not to be a pest, but how are we handling spoilers if they are part of an interview? Does the whole interview get posted in the media thread and then the spoiler from it in the spoiler thread? Can you just post the interview in the media thread and talk about it here? There's going to be some overlap I'm assuming so just want to make sure we're doing it right before we get flooded with things.

 

A link to the article is what should be posted in the Media topic, not the entire article itself; non-spoilery stuff should then be discussed there in Media, and yes, the spoiler-y stuff should come over here. Posting in the Spoilers Only thread isn't required, but it won't be a problem to have a link or even quote the spoiler-y part of the article in that topic, and it would be helpful to some folks to have that to reference to while discussing.

 

Hope that helps! Off to search the internet for more pictures of tiny pets as Disney characters!

[Dianthus]

Backing up for a moment to the article about Hook, Henry and Regina working to save Emma. If this is the case, I'd like to see Hook hitting Regina with some home truths (as well as Dark Emma), since he's one of the few characters occasionally allowed to call her on her shit.

[mjgchick]

I'm glad it sounds like Snow and Charming will do anything to get Emma back.

I have to laugh at Natalie Abrahams obvious hate for Hook. Her "Will Hook go bad now that the only reason why he's good is gone?" Kill me but of course Eddy clocks her by saying he has more reasons to be stay good.

When the hell do they expect Zelena to have this baby though? I'm going to assume this baby must be important for 5B and not just because it's Regina angst.

Edited July 8, 2015 by mjgchick

[retrograde]

Well that was uninformative. Glad there'll be some Jolly Rodger. Glad it's more of a split personality thing than Emma going evil overnight. Ugh on the "new savior".

[Curio]

Will the Jolly Roger be used in any significant way this season?

Kitsis: I can’t imagine it won’t be.

Horowitz: How could it not be? You’ve got to use the Roger!

 

Well, that didn't really stop you guys from not using her after you brought her back in the Ursula episode. (Yes, she was used for a bit in the finale during the alternate universe, but otherwise...nothing all season.) I need to start a petition for the Jolly to get her own flashback centric episode.

 

And yeah, that hot seat interview wasn't very informative.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Curio

[kili]

EW: Hot Seat

 

Well, that was a whole lot of "Can't Say" and "I hope So".  Why do the hot seat if you aren't willing to spoil anything. Maybe they should have given her the questions so they would have had something they could have answered.

 

Will Emma have the powers of the seer as well and be able to see the future?

 

That is actually not a bad question (which Adam non-answers). It would be cool if the Dark One was a big snow ball. It just keeps absorbing all the evil deeds and powers of each of its hosts. It started out as a mini-curse with the person being a little bit darker (maybe it started like Lily with just having the darkness of somebody else put in them) and just got worse and worse and more powerful as time went on. Given that you used to have to murder the former Dark One to become the next one, it has a built in evil-attracting mechanism.

 

I wonder if they will explain why Merlin was dumb enough to create a Dark One vault with a key if he was trying to controlt he dark power. Why not just throw away the key and then you've got the dude contained. Of course, they will forget all about the vault and the key because that was just a stupid way to kill Neal. I still think they should have had Zelena make Rumple kill Neal to invoke the curse because that would have given Rumple a legitimate reason for blaming her for his son's death and really super mess up his head.  But no, we had to make Snow as evil as Regina, so make her do the curse (for reasons that still make no sense since Emma was not required  to stop Zelena).

 

Will Rumple still have magic?

 

Another good dquestion with no answer. I want to see Rumple powerless. Give Carlyle something to do.

 

Since we have a new Dark One, is there a new Savior this season?
Kitsis: Sure is.
Horowitz: That’s a great question.

 

We need to get Kitsis in a room away from Adam. We might get some actual spoilers.  New Savior....what are the over-under odds that its Regina?

[Curio]

New Savior....what are the over-under odds that its Regina?

 

100%. There's no way Adam & Eddy let it be anyone else, or go with the more original route and let there be multiple saviors who have to all work together to save The Savior.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Curio

[kili]

100%. There's no way Adam & Eddy let it be anyone else, or go with the more original route and let there be multiple saviors who have to all work together to save The Savior.

 

Meanwhile, Snow and Charming are confirmed to be crossing some lines, so I guess they get to be the imbecelic, hapless villians of the season.  You know, the mini-villians that keep the B or C story going. By the end, they will learn the error of their ways and how they should have listened to Regina about how Emma wouldn't have wanted to be saved that way.

[RadioGirl27]

Natalie Abrams is so obnoxious. That question about Hook is so biased. But I like A&E's answer.

And who cares about Henry's love life or Lily's father?

[YaddaYadda]

I really hate the "Savior" title.  They tacked that onto Emma even after she broke the curse (or part of it) and then it became her burden and I just need for the title to go away altogether at this point.

 

I thought the whole thing about Emma (maybe) having a split personality to be interesting.  But isn't that how Rumple was though?  As long as she's not all out villain all of a sudden, I guess?

[kili]

I thought the whole thing about Emma (maybe) having a split personality to be interesting.  But isn't that how Rumple was though?

 

No, Rumple was not a split personality (except for one short duration). He sometimes felt compelled to not be nasty, but most of the time he was conniving (even when there was no Magic in Storybrooke).  Largely, he was just concerned with what he wanted, no matter the cost others had to pay. Sometimes, he revelled in making others pay a price. He was sometimes conflicted wanting to make his son or Belle happy which was at odds with his own self-interest, but his self-interest always won out.

 

If they do go with a true split personality where sometimes Emma fights through to do some good while other times the Dark One succeeds, that would be more like when Rumple had Neal inside him (although in that case it was crazy Rumple or sane, but confused Neal).

 

It would be interesting for Jen to play because she gets to be outright evil and then dismayed about it. Kind of exhausting.

Edited July 8, 2015 by kili

[mjgchick]

Maybe we'll have the savior killing anyone who messes with her family and not feeling guilty about it? Then again she didn't feel any guilt in killing Cruella. It was her parents clutching their pearls. I will say I'm ok with Snowing doing anything they can to get Emma back even if it means breaking their promise to her when she said they have to do it as heroes. Just not half assed like killing Cora or whatever that was with them kidnapping a dragon.

[YaddaYadda]

I just read the plot for Black Swan which I haven't watched and I don't know if anyone else has seen it and if they care to weigh in on it since the main character seemed to have some sort of a split personality as well.  

 

What if Emma thinks that things are happening and they really aren't?  Like she's doing terrible things, but it's just the darkness in her trying to drive her over the edge?  I'm assuming she'll have enough control over the darkness since she's a product of true love and didn't have darkness in her before this AND has powerful light magic.

 

There are two lines that keep coming back for me and it's the same one but in two different characters' dialogue.  Zoso tells Rumple he knows how to recognize a desperate soul and Rumple told Emma exactly that.  Emma is no longer that person though, she's no longer in that place of being alone and so on and she seemingly has made peace with her past and her history.  I did say seemingly...

 

No, Rumple was not a split personality (except for one short duration). He sometimes felt compelled to not be nasty, but most of the time he was conniving (even when there was no Magic in Storybrooke).

Good point.

[KingOfHearts]

Rumple didn't really change after he became the Dark One - Rumple was always Rumple. All the power did was enable him to use his selfishness. I believe he was corrupted even before it. Whatever Emma's dark side is will just be tempted and more prominent. The Dark One curse simply amplifies one's darkness and puts it under a magnifying glass. It doesn't make you more evil, just more obvious.

Edited July 8, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[queenbee]

This show retcons so much it is near impossible to predict what will happen. What we saw for Rumple, when he took on the Dark Curse, may mean nothing when it comes to Emma, not because of world-building reasons or the story following the internal rules set for how magic should work, but because the PLOT will require otherwise.

 

Ditto re: Regina being the new saviour. I expect the writers will think that this brings them full-circle, with Emma and Regina switching roles and Regina finally achieving her redemption. I hope to be wrong but I'm not enthusiastic.

[LizaD]

 

I expect the writers will think that this brings them full-circle,

Full circle would be Rump being the savior wouldn't it? He was the DO we were introduced to and he was the one that made Emma the "savior" before all the retcons anyway.

 

Or it'll be Zelena and Robin's baby. I hope it is just for the ridiculous factor. And then we'll find out Zelena stole Woegina's egg and implanted herself with Woegina and Robin's zygote. Pretty sure that's been a soap opera story and we all know they steal all their stories from them.

[Curio]

Or it'll be Zelena and Robin's baby. I hope it is just for the ridiculous factor.

 

If The Savior™ is going to be a baby, it would actually make story-sense for it to be Neal since he's technically another child born of True Love™. (Actually, if they really want to go the ridiculous soap opera route, the big Season 5 secret will be that Emma is pregnant and her baby is going to be the new savior because it has Emma's savior blood and would be the child of a True Love pairing.)

 

But more importantly...

I really hate the "Savior" title.

This. I was really hoping this upcoming season would abolish the "savior" title altogether (much like how Season 4 was all about not pigeoning people into "heroes" or "villains"), but maybe we'll be lucky and that hot seat question is a misdirect by Adam & Eddy.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Curio

[KingOfHearts]

 

I really hate the "Savior" title.

Replying in Emma thread.

[Souris]

OF COURSE the "new savior" will be Regina. Because This Show, These Writers.

[Curio]

The sad thing is, I can totally imagine Adam & Eddy giving an interview where they say, "We felt like Regina had to be the new savior because we like to play with the audience's expectations, and Regina is the least likely person in Storybrooke to become the new savior. Plus, we really enjoy how she started as the main villain of the show and transformed into the new savior." Meanwhile, we'll all be sitting here banging our heads saying, "We saw this twist coming a thousand miles away."

 

I'll totally eat my shoe if they mix things up and make Charming the new savior. Now that would be a twist.

[Souris]

Maybe it can be Lily, and she can stay in Camelot to be the savior there or whatever. There was that line about Emma & Lily being connected even before the darkness swap, right?

Edited July 8, 2015 by Souris

[Curio]

Maybe it can be Lily, and she can stay in Camelot to be the savior there or whatever. There was that line about Emma & Lily being connected even before the darkness swap, right?

 

I could actually get on board with that. Maybe every big realm has to have its own "savior." In Arendelle, those saviors are Anna and Elsa. In Camelot, it's Lily. In Storybrooke/The Enchanted Forest, it's Emma. In (whatever realm Hook is originally from), maybe it's Killian and he doesn't realize it yet. In Oz, it's Dorothy. And then when all the realms are under attack in the final season however many years from now, there will be a meeting of all the saviors who hold an emergency convention to figure out how to battle the ultimate Big Bad.

 

At the end of next season, I'd really love for them to just say, "A savior is anyone who puts their life at risk for the benefit of others with no expectation of rewards in return. Anyone, magical or non-magical, can be a savior, but very few are brave enough to be."

Edited July 8, 2015 by Curio

[Rumsy4]

I agree with the idea that Rumple might be the savior, much as I too dislike that title. This arc is bound to be about Rumple as much (or more) as it is about Emma. After all, he has been the Dark One for centuries. It would bring his arc to a full circle if he sacrificed himself to rid the world of the Dark Curse. That way, they could write Carlyle off the show if that's what he wants. That's why I'm wary of predicting a Captain Swan True Love kiss to break the Dark Curse on Emma. The writers love to draw out the CS romance as much as they can. With S5 unlikely to be the final season, I'm not sure we'll be getting that TLK this year. The season premiere may give us more clues.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Rumsy4