Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[pezgirl7]

Is anyone else slightly worried for Hook at the end of the season, due to possible foreshadowing with him saying he had no one to pull him from the darkness before, but now he has Emma? He could go dark when Emma disappears, but it'll probably be for a hot second with his rum flask, before he snaps out of it and tries to find her.

Edited April 27, 2015 by pezgirl7

[retrograde]

My speculation is that Henry would/will drag his wallowing, druken arse off his ship and give him one of his annoying-but-occasionally-useful "hope" lectures. Hook would probably tell Snowing to bugger off, but if Henry still has hope of finding her* then Hook would never crush it and he'd do his best to be there for the little brat.

 

* This is assuming she actually disappears to another world.

[FurryFury]

Maybe Cora is tied to Will and the Wonderland plot? Who freaking knows!?!

 

Hey, maybe she IS Will. Considering the way villains come back from the dead all the damn time, I wouldn't be shocked.

 

The only way this season can be somewhat redeemed is if they'll reveal in the finale that all of the Author stuff is pure bullshit. No fate but what you make. Maybe he can only manipulate minor stuff, but not people's actual will.

Yeah, I know, it's too stupid to hope at this point.

[Souris]

Is anyone else slightly worried for Hook at the end of the season, due to possible foreshadowing with him saying he had no one to pull him from the darkness before, but now he has Emma? 

 

That's exactly what I think they were foreshadowing.

[YaddaYadda]

Is anyone else slightly worried for Hook at the end of the season, due to possible foreshadowing with him saying he had no one to pull him from the darkness before, but now he has Emma? He could go dark when Emma disappears, but it'll probably be for a hot second with his rum flask, before he snaps out of it and tries to find her.

 

I sort of thought about it and yeah, it sounded like one of those way too obvious anvils.  I think it depends what she tells him in the end.  Hook is someone who needs purpose in his life.  His revenge was his purpose until he met Emma.  I wouldn't be surprised if he went dark to try and find her, as in using any means necessary, but I don't see him going dark for the sake of going dark.  Finding Emma or bringing her back out from her darkness is probably the whole reason he would dip his toe in that pool again.  Honestly, I'm not entirely opposed to him going there either, because maybe he'll get a little more focus and we'd have a dark couple which probably means character destruction.  *sigh*

[sharky]

I sort of thought about it and yeah, it sounded like one of those way too obvious anvils.  I think it depends what she tells him in the end.  Hook is someone who needs purpose in his life.  His revenge was his purpose until he met Emma.  I wouldn't be surprised if he went dark to try and find her, as in using any means necessary, but I don't see him going dark for the sake of going dark.  Finding Emma or bringing her back out from her darkness is probably the whole reason he would dip his toe in that pool again.  Honestly, I'm not entirely opposed to him going there either, because maybe he'll get a little more focus and we'd have a dark couple which probably means character destruction.  *sigh*

I don't know if we would get The Dark Couple, but I do like the idea of Hook using any means necessary to get Emma back. Because yes, the hints have been anvil-licious. [sorry, I know that's not a real word.] Considering what's happened, especially in this past season with Emma doubting her parents in both the Frozen and Queens arc, it would be nice to see someone really fight for her instead of this wishy-washy Charming nonsense. After everything she has done for everyone else, I want to see someone who actually BELIEVES in her to step up and fight for her, which is something we really haven't seen from the Charmings, even in their lame magic egg flashback.

[RadioGirl27]

Is anyone else slightly worried for Hook at the end of the season, due to possible foreshadowing with him saying he had no one to pull him from the darkness before, but now he has Emma? He could go dark when Emma disappears, but it'll probably be for a hot second with his rum flask, before he snaps out of it and tries to find her.

Ir depends on what is going on in the scene with the dagger and what he thinks that has happened to Emma, but I think that him saying that Emma is his reason to live can be read in two different ways: that, once/if Emma disappears at the end of the season, he is going to follow the same path of alcohol and rage he followed after loosing Liam and Milah, or that, because of her love for her, he is not going to stop fighting until he finds her, dead or alive. But I'm pretty sure his first impulse would be to drink himself into oblivion.

Edited April 27, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[kili]

I think that him saying that Emma is his reason to live can be read in two different ways: that, once/if Emma disappears at the end of the season, he is going to follow the same path of alcohol and rage he followed after loosing Liam and Milah, or that, because of her love for her, he is not going to stop fighting until he finds her, dead or alive.

 

Didn't we see the first play out the first time he lost Emma forever? He went back to heavily drinking and being a pirate and even that he couldn't do very well becase Emma had changed him.

 

It being TS, TW who are ardent recyclers, we'll probably get that story repeated again. Why give us a new story where Hook learned from his previous experience when they can put a new hat on an old plot?

 

And here is a new idea for Hook - if losing one person sets your entire life into a tailspin, maybe try building up a social network of more than one person. Leads to more stability.

[Souris]

This time they may have him take a memory potion to forget Emma and do the DarkSnow thing. Because why come up with new developments when you can retread, I mean, "parallel."

[Shanna Marie]

And here is a new idea for Hook - if losing one person sets your entire life into a tailspin, maybe try building up a social network of more than one person. Leads to more stability.

That's what I hope will keep him from going off the deep end this time with what happens to Emma. The others don't necessarily care enough about him to support him and provide that kind of stability (maybe Belle, depending on which personality she has that week and if they remember the mid-season opener when she was holding him accountable while being encouraging and supportive), but they would at least call him out on going dark/evil, which might be a wake-up call to keep him from going too far. I also think that Henry's presence might be enough to hold him back, even if the relationship isn't reciprocal. Henry is the son of two of the people he's loved and lost (even if Emma's loss is temporary) and the grandson of someone else he's loved and lost. Basically, Henry is the product of almost everyone he's loved, and I think Hook might try to hold on for Henry's sake, especially if his abandoned child trigger kicks in and he's horrified about Henry losing yet another parent. He seems to want Henry to like him, so he might not go too crazy just to keep from disappointing Henry too much when Henry might really need him. Henry might want little to do with him (depending on what personality he has that week), but Hook might feel he owes it to both Emma and Bae to be there for their son.

[YaddaYadda]

‘Mother’ - Press Release

REGINA CONFRONTS HER MOMMY ISSUES, ON ABC’S “ONCE UPON A TIME”

Barbara Hershey and Rebecca Mader Return

“Mother” – Emma returns to Storybrooke to reunite Lily with Maleficent while Regina and Robin struggle to cope with the implications of Zelena’s pregnancy. When Gold’s health takes a turn for the worse, Isaac looks to a new ally for help procuring the magic ink he needs to re-write history. In a Fairy Tale Land flashback, Cora returns from Wonderland to beg Regina’s forgiveness on the anniversary of Daniel’s murder. Cora vows to help her daughter find true love, but Regina remains suspicious of her mother’s intentions, on “Once Upon a Time,” SUNDAY, MAY 3 (8:00-9:00 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.

“Once Upon a Time” stars Ginnifer Goodwin as Snow White/Mary Margaret, Jennifer Morrison as Emma Swan, Lana Parrilla as the Evil Queen/Regina, Josh Dallas as Prince Charming/David Nolan, Emilie de Ravin as Belle, Colin O’Donoghue as Hook, Jared S. Gilmore as Henry, Michael Socha as Will Scarlet and Robert Carlyle as Rumplestiltskin/Mr. Gold.

Guest stars include Barbara Hershey as Cora, Tony Perez as Valet/Nobleman, Beverley Elliott as Granny, Rebecca Mader as Zelena, Sean Maguire as Robin Hood, Wil Traval as the Sheriff of Nottingham, Raphael Alejandro as Roland, Ingrid Torrance as Severe Nurse, Agnes Bruckner as Lily, Patrick Fischler as Isaac, John Innes as Older Man, Jeremy Patrick Schuetze as Young Man, Kristin Bauer van Straten as Maleficent, Chad Cosgrove as Carriage Driver, Joe Dodds as Outrider #1 and Jim Finkbeiner as Outrider #2.

”Mother” was written by Jane Espenson and directed by Ron Underwood.

 

[retrograde]

I can't believe we're one episode from the finale and basically nothing has happened this half season. I mean obviously a bunch of crazy crap has happened, but the characters are pretty much where they were at 4.12. Belle, Rumple, Hook, Henry, and Regina haven't really changed or done anything. Emma's relationship with Snowing has changed, but it has mostly just gone backwards and I wouldn't say there has been actually character development on either side. I guess ultimately Regina will learn something about fate or destiny or true love or something, but I'm pretty sure that's it until the whole dagger thing.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm guessing the new ally Isaac turns to is going to be Lily.  Oh and look poor Rumple's health!  Not!  I guess Regina will just accept that Robin and Zelena are having a baby together or whatever.  I really could give a flying fuck about more Regina flashbacks.  This is two Regina centrics already this half season, meanwhile other characters are twirling their thumbs.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'm guessing the new ally Isaac turns to is going to be Lily.

I'm guessing Regina. Weren't they in the crypt together in the promo? Or at least talking?

This is two Regina centrics already this half season, meanwhile other characters are twirling their thumbs.

Well to be fair, Snowing had 2 as well. (Unforgiven and Best Laid Plans) Hook had 1, while Emma, Belle, and Rumple had zero.

 

Cora returns from Wonderland to beg Regina’s forgiveness on the anniversary of Daniel’s murder.

I'm side-eyeing this hard. So Cora could just pop over to the Enchanted Forest whenever she wanted to? Why wasn't she more involved in the EF events then? Why was she desperate for Jefferson's hat? If the retcon is that Cora manipulated fate to make Regina evil, then I don't see why the flashbacks would be during the Evil Queen years.

 

I find it interesting that the Severe Nurse is back. I miss Dr. Whale.

Edited April 27, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

I think yesterday was an Emma centric, no?  I could not care less about Belle especially after those looks she was throwing Rumple's way and Rumple can fall down the rabbit hole and never come back up.  I realized just how much I despise both Belle and Rumple after yesterday's episode.  He's...I've run out of words to describe him and she has zero pride and no backbone.  So she can just go away.

 

Snowing had to have those centrics, I mean how would Emma ever go down the contrivance dark road?  I also don't need to see every beat of Regina's life.  Cora figured a way out of Wonderland to only go back?  Like WTF!

 

I think they're going to lock Zelena up in the psych ward so she can't escape.  That's probably who severe nurse is for.

[KingOfHearts]

I think they're going to lock Zelena up in the psych ward so she can't escape.  That's probably who severe nurse is for.

I love how the "psych ward" is basically Regina's prison. She can just toss whoever she wants in there whenever. Was the Severe Nurse the head warden or something in EF?

 

I think yesterday was an Emma centric, no?

I suppose it could be viewed that way.

 

Cora figured a way out of Wonderland to only go back?  Like WTF!

Sort of takes away from Regina and Cora's big reunion in 2B, doesn't it? All that time I thought they hadn't seen each other since the mirror incident.* Nope. Retcons... retcons everywhere.

 

Wil Traval as the Sheriff of Nottingham

The Sheriff of Nottingham? So many characters in this episode. Sounds like a crazy mess.

 

Cora vows to help her daughter find true love, but Regina remains suspicious of her mother’s intention

Oh it all makes sense now. Outlaw Queen is the direct result of Cora's meddling. Maybe I'm just holding on to a false hope that OQ was not meant to be after all...

 

 

* Granted Regina saw her "dead" body, but I don't really count that emotionally.

Edited April 27, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[HoodlumSheep]

I'm also confused about the Cora events. Unless she basically gets "banished" again through another mirror or something. Maybe this is when Henry Sr. gets kidnapped? And her "helping" Regina find love again? even if she's faking it, I still feel like it doesn't match up with how Cora views love. Love is Weakness!!!!

[Guest]

I'm also confused about the Cora events. Unless she basically gets "banished" again through another mirror or something. Maybe this is when Henry Sr. gets kidnapped? And her "helping" Regina find love again? even if she's faking it, I still feel like it doesn't match up with how Cora views love. Love is Weakness!!!!

 

I'm working on the theory that tis was supposed to air a week later and its the 'Mother's Day' episode and we shouldn't dissect it to closely.  Holiday episodes usually make less sense than normal episodes.

[myril]

I'm also confused about the Cora events. Unless she basically gets "banished" again through another mirror or something. Maybe this is when Henry Sr. gets kidnapped? And her "helping" Regina find love again? even if she's faking it, I still feel like it doesn't match up with how Cora views love. Love is Weakness!!!!

 

I guess, that is the point, love is weakness to Cora except the love of power, so think we're getting to see Cora just again trying to manipulate things her way, an attempt to teach Regina, that her true love should be all about power. Love someone - for the sake of your own greatness, no, just use them to get what you want. Like a child of your own to ensure your royal status and eventually carry on your legacy. Of course, never know with this show. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'm working on the theory that tis was supposed to air a week later and its the 'Mother's Day' episode and we shouldn't dissect it to closely.  Holiday episodes usually make less sense than normal episodes.

Cora is a representative of Mother's Day? *shivers*

[Dianthus]

I don't want Snow being roasted if it means Emma loses her mom again

As annoyed I am with Snow I hope the show actually spends time redeeming her next season because Regina is happy now. Hopefully a happy Regina means no more boring angst with her so we could get over with confusing angst with the Charmings.

Do you really think we'll ever get a "happy" Regina?

[retrograde]

I just don't think they know what to do with Snow. I actually kind of wish they'd continued the mayor storyline now. Stupid as it was, it at least gave her something to do that wasn't exclaiming "Emma!" once every few episodes.

 

So I may be crazy, but my expectations for the finale are actually pretty high. I'm hoping it's going to be a 3B scenario, where all the stupid magical bullshit that was boring and not actually going anywhere all season (in 3B the time travel spell, this time the author rewriting stuff) finally culminates in something pretty cool, and everyone goes on a fun adventure. I know there will be more Robin/Regina than 3B and than I'd care for, but so long as we're headed to some sort of AU scenario, I don't think I mind. Because I think what happens is that the writers decide where they want the half-season to end, and they decide who the villain/s are going to be, and then they just try to fill in the blanks to get there. And they often suck at filling in the blanks. I am aware that I may come to regret this level of optimism. But everything we know about the finale so far sounds good to me.

Edited April 28, 2015 by retrograde

[MaiLuna]

Mark Isham posted this quite creepy picture of Emma that I assume it's from the finale. She looks really disturbed. I wonder if that's from the AU part of the finale or from after she has vanished because of the dagger.

[retrograde]

Awesome. 

 

Also, is she on a ship?

[Serena]

She's totally playing an Evil Queen in some kind of AU scenario, isn't she? Ugh.

[OnceUponAJen]

It looks like it could be a ship. There's a pile of rope to the left in the picture. That definitely seems to be an EF costume. It looks dark or dark and light blue? Bet she looks fabulous in it.

Edited April 28, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[YaddaYadda]

OMG!  She looks like her head might start spinning any moment.

 

BTW, the first part of the finale is the origins of the Author which I could care less about, so I guess we'll see how that goes.  Also, can we talk for a quick second about how Regina goes to the Author for her happy ending even though Robin is back in her life?  I get there's the whole Zelena/pregnancy aspect, but seriously, she needs to mellow out a bit.  And I absolutely want someone to throw the blame on her with whatever happens in the finale.  For someone who talks about Snowing messing with powers we don't even understand, she sure is quick to do the same thing.

[HoodlumSheep]

Emma looks so batty. I love it, she looks wonderful in blue and looks like a real witch in that photo.

[Rumsy4]

Evil Cleavage for sure!! Hey maybe Emma becomes a pirate captain! I am excited... 

[RadioGirl27]

She looks crazy. I would love to see a scene with Dark Emma trying to seduce the proper Lieutenant Jones. It won't make up for this mess of a season but it would be fun.

[sharky]

The only thing is we don't see her hands. My first thought is that she was struggling, not that she was evil. Would it be too much to hope for if Hook is still a pirate and somehow gets ahold of her? Or perhaps Blackbeard is returning and Hook gets to be the hero who saves her? I don't know. I know she's likely evil but man, that looks a bit over acted if that's the case.

[YaddaYadda]

Maybe it's overacted because it's not actually part of a scene?  Or we don't have the rest of the scene to make up our minds about it.  I think she looks like she might be shackled.  

 

So this AU, I wonder if people actually remember each other and whatever they are in this AU, Emma some batshit crazy witch and Hook is a lieutenant and Snow could be a princess of the realm as opposed to a bandit and I don't know what David would be though I'd like him to be more like James and have some actual edge to his person...It's like even if you're in an alternate universe, everyone has enough redeeming qualities that these couples would still be reunited in spite of the crazy.

 

Is it terrible that I really want very minimal Rumple and Belle in all of this?  I used to really love Rumple, but the last few episodes have completely turned me off and I just really despise Belle after 4x19.  Run, Will, RUN!

[retrograde]

My theory is that they won't remember who they are, and then something will happen about halfway through and then they do. The person who spoiled the thing about Hook's costume also said he and Emma were working together (or something to that effect), which seems unlikely if Hook is back to the upstanding naval officer and Emma is now evil.

[Emma]

Damn. What an image. She looks tied to a chair. Maybe screaming up to her captor?

[Bluerang1]

I thought that spoilers had Ursula and Cruella in "Lily". That it would explain what happened to them after they got sucked into the portal?

[Souris]

I'm trying to reconcile the concept of everyone being someone else in an AU/altered timeline with the scene where it appears Emma, the Apprentice & Regina come to lying on the street, and Robin & Henry run up to greet them. Why only Robin & Henry? Where is everyone else?

 

I'm guessing a TLK b/t Regina and Robin in the AU is what wakes them up to remember, and they have to get Emma to remember. TLHug b/t Regina & Emma?

[YaddaYadda]

I'm guessing a TLK b/t Regina and Robin in the AU is what wakes them up to remember, and they have to get Emma to remember. TLHug b/t Regina & Emma?

 

I think you're forgetting Henry in this scenario.  Henry who is left behind in town and somehow manages to make it to wherever everyone is.  I think whatever happens, he's the one who changes the course of the AU and brings everyone back to their old selves.  

 

I'm assuming everyone wakes up or goes back to the places they were in before they were torn from Storybrooke.  If someone was at Granny's, that's probably where they will appear back.

 

My whole thing I guess is if Rumple is responsible for this then he'll want certain people (I'm looking at you, Hook) to be as miserable as possible in this new reality.  

Edited April 28, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[KingOfHearts]

 

My whole thing I guess is if Rumple is responsible for this then he'll want certain people (I'm looking at you, Hook) to be as miserable as possible in this new reality.

I wonder if instead of giving all villains happy endings, this gives one to a particular one.

[RadioGirl27]

I'm trying to reconcile the concept of everyone being someone else in an AU/altered timeline with the scene where it appears Emma, the Apprentice & Regina come to lying on the street, and Robin & Henry run up to greet them. Why only Robin & Henry? Where is everyone else?

They shoot a scene with Regina, Emma and the Apprentice going into Gold's shop the same day they shoot the scenes with Henry in a deserted Storybrooke. So I guess that they are there to stop Rumple or the Author, but it's too late and they end up in the Enchanted Forest AU. I think Henry is going to be involved in breaking the curse. Everyone wakes up in the same place where they were when the curse hit and that's why Emma, Regina and the Apprentice are in front of Gold's shop. In that scene Emma hugs Henry and then leaves running. I guess she goes looking for her parents after a realizations similar to the one in last season finale, or, I hope, looking for Hook.

 

From E Online

Hannah: What's coming up for Snow and Charming on #OUAT?

Don't shoot the messenger, but it sounds like they are headed to trouble! Also you really shouldn't shoot the messenger because the messenger is Josh Dallas, who just stopped by our E! News set. He told me this about what's ahead: "There's big stuff going down, things that are going to shock the fans, things that a lot of the characters, particularly Snow and Charming, something that they don't want to happen." Dallas also spilled on the quest to return Lily to her mother, Maleficent, and it sounds like that's not going to go well either. "Lily's not going to be too happy with Snow and Charming," he added. That's understandable given what they did, but still...not happy news!

Yeah, Emma is going dark, we get it, Josh.

Edited April 28, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Souris]

I think you're forgetting Henry in this scenario.  Henry who is left behind in town and somehow manages to make it to wherever everyone is.  I think whatever happens, he's the one who changes the course of the AU and brings everyone back to their old selves. 

 

I did forget he is part of the EF stuff too. So I guess maybe he could TLK Regina and Emma.

[KingOfHearts]

 

So I guess that they are there to stop Rumple or the Author, but it's too late and they end up in the Enchanted Forest AU.

In the promo for 4x20, I'm pretty sure there's a scene with the Author writing something down in Gold's shop. This could be the cliffhanger for 4x21. But the walls look different, so maybe not. The glass case/table is what tipped me off.

 

I'm betting Maleficent is against Lily getting revenge. When Snow gets hurt, she looks worried and appears to go toward her aid. I'm not sure why she wouldn't just torch those two and be done with it, but maybe it's because she just wants to retire from evil like's she's always wanted to. Or it could be that she respects Emma's wishes in return for finding her long lost daughter.

 

 

So I guess maybe he could TLK Regina and Emma.

Now I just imagine everyone having to get TLK'd to remember who they were.

Edited April 28, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

For all intents and purposes, Mal was actually retired from the game.  I'm assuming that when Regina went to visit her to steal the dark curse, Mal already knew she was having a baby, so that's probably the reason she decided to bow out of the whole thing.

 

I haven't got a clue where the Author is, though it might be Regina's crypt of sex?

from TV Guide

[RadioGirl27]

As much as I dislike Henry (and I used to love him in season 1), I can get behind him being the hero, if it means it's not Regina.

 

 

We are flipping everything. It's a change so big it will ripple through every character.

I still think this has to be something different than just Emma turning dark.

The only two things that I would consider so big to consider them a real game-changer are all of them going back to EF permanently or magic leaving Storybrooke and the real world finding the city and its inhabitants. The other option, the one I would absolutely hate, it's that every hero turns a villain and every villain, a hero. So we are having not only Dark Emma, but also Dark Snow, Dark Charming and Dark Belle, and Heroic Regina and Heroic Rumple. I don't know where Hook would end up here.

Edited April 28, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Shanna Marie]

I haven't got a clue where the Author is, though it might be Regina's crypt of sex?

I think it looks kind of flashbacky -- probably from the Author origin part of the episode.

[kili]

I'm betting Maleficent is against Lily getting revenge. When Snow gets hurt, she looks worried and appears to go toward her aid. I'm not sure why she wouldn't just torch those two and be done with it, but maybe it's because she just wants to retire from evil like's she's always wanted to.

 

I think that Mal learned (imagine that, on This Show!) that trying to get revenge led her to nothing but failure and heartache, so she wants to stop her daughter from going down the same path.

 

Cora would probably be thrilled if Regina had gotten a double dose of darkness, but Malificient is very upset about it.

 

Mal never makes any effort to harm the Charmings even though she feels they have done great harm to  her. She's willing to do stuff to get her daughter back, but she stops the evil at that. Maybe she's seen Rumple's heart.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I think that Mal learned (imagine that, on This Show!) that trying to get revenge led her to nothing but failure and heartache, so she wants to stop her daughter from going down the same path.

Mal has always come off as the villain with the most common sense to me. Her evil is always to step toward a logical reason, unlike some other people.

[HoodlumSheep]

Hmmm...not sure about Henry being front and center in the finale, but I think I'll be okay with it as long as he doesn't go handing his heart over to any stranger or eat a poisoned apple turnover to prove a point.

I like this talk of Mal being a "retired" villain. It makes sense with what we've seen so far.

[orza]

Mark Isham posted this quite creepy picture of Emma that I assume it's from the finale. She looks really disturbed. I wonder if that's from the AU part of the finale or from after she has vanished because of the dagger.

I suppose she is going for angry or fierce but the effect is runied by the over-botoxed forehead. The frozen forehead and juvedermed nasolabial folds were really distracting the last two episodes. Whatever possessed Jennifer Morrison to get half her face immobilized so she could look a few years younger.

[KingOfHearts]

https://twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/593152456189554689

Script tease.

 

Regina: "Don't talk to me about this day, Daddy."

Edited April 28, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

I hope that next season, they will considerably scale back on the whole Regina flashbacks.  I've had enough of those to last me a lifetime.  Rumple and Snow fall in that category as well.