KingOfHearts April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 https://twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/590567177935314944 Script tease. Link to comment
RadioGirl27 April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Snow going dark would be interesting, but I'm on the side that believes that they might want Emma for that because of the whole true love aspect of the dark one's curse when you can apparently just kiss it away like it's a child's booboo. I really think that's the main reason they would go there with Emma. We know Snowing are true love, OQ are pixie dust ordained (I'm not even sure anything regarding a TLK for them is necessary), Rumbelle to a certain extent have been established at true love as well. But Emma and Henry are True Love, so unless they kill off Henry or create some new clause that it has to be romantic true love and not mother-child true love, there is no mystery. Link to comment
YaddaYadda April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Henry is a wishy-washy little f***. I'd like to see him go spew his whole "heroes don't kill" mantra now that his mother did just that to save his life. Why Emma was ever saddled with the spawn that sprung from the Stiltskin line is beyond me. Not even sure how this child was born with the heart of the truest believer either. 4 Link to comment
Rumsy4 April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 (edited) But Emma and Henry are True Love, so unless they kill off Henry or create some new clause that it has to be romantic true love and not mother-child true love, there is no mystery. Well... with Emma disappearing into a different realm, and Henry presumably left in Storybrooke while the Nevengers reassemble to #SaveEmma, someone else will have to step in. The Hook/Emma relationship is sort of building up to that. So, the obvious solution is that Hook will break Emma's Dark Curse. This will also resolve the failed TLK from the 3A season finale. It would be a twist if Snow and Emma manage to sort their differences and a TLK from Snow breaks Emma's curse. It will sort of bookend S1 with a parent-child love breaking a curse. However, the writers have a tendency to use TLK as a bandaid, so they might just use it to swipe under the rug any issues Emma has with her parents. Edited April 21, 2015 by Rumsy4 3 Link to comment
Mari April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 (edited) It would be ridiculous if Captain Swan haven't done it yet. I'm all for waiting, but JFC, 9 weeks have passed.Not necessarily. Emma's been physical with men, but her emotional attachments have been Nealfire and Walsh. Both turned out to be less-than-trustworthy. Some people are far different about emotion-involved sex than they are about simple lust sex. If you add together Emma's emotional guards and the betrayal by the two people she was emotionally and physically involved with, you could easily get a character who is taking the physical side slowly simply because it's frightening. How much she seems to care for Hook would be motivation to keep from taking that one last step. And as for Hook? Well, the last person he committed to AND shared a bed with had her heart ripped out in front of him. It might make him a little wary, too. Edited April 21, 2015 by Mari 4 Link to comment
Shanna Marie April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 I just had a scary thought .. if the 5A villain is something that's painful for the audience and really awful, but we know that Emma is going out in a grand sacrifice, which makes it look like she's not likely to turn into a villain ... what if it's Hook who goes dark, if he gets all bitter and vengeful about what happened to Emma? I would hate it because I really hate the flip-flopping reformed villains, and I'd hope he's learned something along the way, but it is TS:TW, and they love that kind of stuff. And on this show, "dark" could merely mean focused action that gets results. Then again, if he's hell-bent on finding and saving Emma, I can't see that putting him in opposition to her parents or the other good guys, unless Snow and Charming revert to the "it was her choice, maybe it's better this way" attitude. 1 Link to comment
KingOfHearts April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 (edited) what if it's Hook who goes dark, if he gets all bitter and vengeful about what happened to Emma? Dark One Hook? What if Rumple is responsible for Emma having to make the sacrifice? If Emma left the Dagger behind like the shooting implied, that would seem like something that would push Hook over the edge to kill Rumple. Edited April 21, 2015 by KingOfHearts Link to comment
FurryFury April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 I'll definitely cheer for Hook if he kills Rumple. He used to be one of my favorites, but it's really high time for him to go. 2 Link to comment
mjgchick April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 I'm still convinced Emma is the villain they are talking about. If it's not Emma then it has to be Snow because of how Josh said it would break the audience hearts out. Hook, Regina or any other reformed villain wouldn't do that and knowing this show they wouldn't give Prince Charming a storyline like that. 2 Link to comment
Mari April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 I'm still convinced Emma is the villain they are talking about. If it's not Emma then it has to be Snow because of how Josh said it would break the audience hearts out. Hook, Regina or any other reformed villain wouldn't do that and knowing this show they wouldn't give Prince Charming a storyline like that. I'm not sure how Dallas would do, but Goodwin would kill it. Snow's been pretty much ruined already--something like Dark Snow could be very interesting. 1 Link to comment
YaddaYadda April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Not necessarily. I don't think everyone agrees on what they did and didn't do. I think they would have pillaged and plundered after their first date if she had her own place. Snow's been pretty much ruined already--something like Dark Snow could be very interesting. It would be very interesting and we sort of got a glimpse of that in season 1, you know back when the show was still good. Dark Snow with full on magic powers? I think she'd be scary. I wouldn't be upset about it personally, I'd break out the popcorn and be happy that Snow is no longer a bore. 2 Link to comment
KingOfHearts April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 (edited) Dark Snow with full on magic powers? I think she'd be scary. That would be ironic, wouldn't it? Snow's very attempts to keep her daughter good would be the catalyst for her own darkness. Edited April 21, 2015 by KingOfHearts 3 Link to comment
mjgchick April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 I'd love a Dark Snow (A real one. Not that bullshit after she killed Cora.) story mostly for Ginny's sake. 4 Link to comment
Mari April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 I don't think everyone agrees on what they did and didn't do. I think they would have pillaged and plundered after their first date if she had her own place. Yeah, maybe. I don't actually have strong feelings or opinions on that issue. I was just suggesting a reason they might not have, should we find out one way or the other later. As for a truly dark Snow? If it was taken seriously, she could be absolutely frightening, and the actress would be good at it. However, would it drastically increase her filming time? Would she be interested in a more rigorous schedule? Also, are we now taking seriously the theory that the dark Emma talk might be a red herring for another big bad switch up? Link to comment
KingOfHearts April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Also, are we now taking seriously the theory that the dark Emma talk might be a red herring for another big bad switch up? I wouldn't take it too seriously at this point. Too many times the writers have done exactly what was speculated. (Zelena = Marian, Emma killing Cruella, etc.) 2 Link to comment
FabulousTater April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Also, are we now taking seriously the theory that the dark Emma talk might be a red herring for another big bad switch up? Unless some new filming spoiler shows up that explains why it looks like Emma is sacrificing herself with the Dark One's dagger, I'm gonna assume for now that Emma's sacrifice makes her the new Dark One and the new Big Bad for s5. I hate the idea. I don't want a Dark One Emma. DO NOT WANT! But there aren't any spoilers right now that offer evidence against the theory. 1 Link to comment
pezgirl7 April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 I don't mind if Hook is the one who "saves" Emma and pulls her from the darkness, but I'm still bitter we never got to see Emma fight for Hook, like we were told. Also, where is the adventure that Hook is suppose to go on? Emma apparently has a few with Regina, but Hook seems to be staying close to home. I can only hope the adventure comes at the start of next season, or the end of this one. And for the record, I don't think CS have had sex yet. I'm still holding out hope that when Emma and Regina return from the EF, whatever happened there is enough to convince Emma to take the next step with Hook. She'll find Hook on the Jolly Roger, maybe we'll get an I love you, and then she and him can finally do the deed. And the reason I'm hoping for an I love you before the whole dagger scene is because that scene seemed fairly short, and when one of them finally says it, I don't want it to be rushed. 4 Link to comment
RadioGirl27 April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 I just had a scary thought .. if the 5A villain is something that's painful for the audience and really awful, but we know that Emma is going out in a grand sacrifice, which makes it look like she's not likely to turn into a villain ... what if it's Hook who goes dark, if he gets all bitter and vengeful about what happened to Emma? I would hate it because I really hate the flip-flopping reformed villains, and I'd hope he's learned something along the way, but it is TS:TW, and they love that kind of stuff. And on this show, "dark" could merely mean focused action that gets results. This idea crossed my mind too, but then I discarded it. It would mean to give Hook something else to do other than looking pretty and being there for Emma. And Dark One Hook would only affect Emma and, maybe, Belle. He hasn't real relationships with anyone else. So I can't imagine Snow, Charming and Regina being all that worried about him and wanting to bring him back from darkness. I see them more like "lets kill him and go on with our lifes". Link to comment
HoodlumSheep April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 If Emma is separated from Hook and everyone else at the end, I kind of wish that 5a/season 5 (however they wanted to pace the stuff), would parallel season 1 a little in terms of the season 1 Snowing fairy backs. Separated for a little while, but eventually come together and go on to defeat the bad guy (whether it's rumple or whoever). I can dream. Now that cruella's dead I feel like the finale is all I have to really look forward to right now. So we'll see how it goes, because I've liked 4/5 of the finales we've gotten (with 4a being the only let down so far). Link to comment
KAOS Agent April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 Is it possible the "change in condition" is that everyone is cursed again? They could have Emma as the Dark One then with no worry about True Love's Kiss if no one remembered her and if she didn't remember them, she could have issues with everyone. This scenario would destroy the show for me, but I could see it playing out. 1 Link to comment
daxx April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 Maybe the change in condition is when Emma is sent/ pulled to wherever she goes then all the magic leaves Storybrooke and it becomes mundane and people from the real world can see it and come and go. Not sure what that would mean for a rescue party trying to cross realms but I am sure the writers could ass pull something like Ariel hauling the Jolly across realms. 5 Link to comment
ParadoxLost April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 (edited) I finally got around to watching the leaked finale filming footage and its changed my thinking. Its staged like a big cloud of curse is coming, but this time instead of letting it wash over them Emma tries to stop it with the dagger. I don't see anything that seems to point to Emma being the Dark One from that scene. How would that even work? Emma would have to kill Rumpel to become the Dark One. We have precedent of Regina using the dagger for magic without taking on the Dark One power to release the fairies from the hat. This seems more like that. Nothing about Emma comes across as if Emma has evil taking root and she's doing one last noble deed before going completely dark. She disappears right after so how does the power transfer to Emma. I'm even leaning towards they took Emma dark so inexplicably early with the thinnest of explanations so they can spend a couple episodes wallowing in it before she rallies and proves she is the Savior, no matter Snowing's idiocy, by the finale. So that leaves 'change of condition'. I don't know. It could be Storybrooke without a Savior. Maybe magic is sucked wherever Emma is. Maybe Emma is unsuccessful in stopping the cloud and happy endings get rewritten to Rumpel's version instead of Regina's or the original (I'm presuming that Regina's version is the concept episode). The troubling bit is Dallas' comments about the big bad being the worse thing that can happen and disturbing. I rejected it initially, but Snow as big bad could actually make sense. She loses her daughter a second time after being estranged through her own actions, lies, and failure to believe in her child then mystery condition change in Storybrooke and maybe some kind of rampage of vengeance from Snow. Or maybe I'm just desperate for Emma to be in some other land. I need her sent somewhere instead of transformed because I need a break from Storybrooke. It wears on me. Edited April 22, 2015 by ParadoxLost 1 Link to comment
KingOfHearts April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 (edited) Love how 4x18 ended with Emma "going dark", then for 4x19 there's photos of everyone having breakfast together at Granny's. No matter how much tension or craziness is going on, casual family gatherings at Granny's seem to be mandatory. Edited April 22, 2015 by KingOfHearts 3 Link to comment
LizaD April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 I haven't seen the last 3 episodes but I'm still positive new Dark One Emma is the finale. As much as the writers cater to the fanatics by incessantly yapping about Woegina and Emma, onscreen, the real one-not the one running in their air and coke filled heads, it was always Emma and Rump as 2 sides of the same coin. Rump started out his whole journey from a desire to protect his kid and greater good too. It's the exact same stuff we saw in 3b. Dark Emma is just the new Empire State of Mind-NYC is the bestest Emma. Emma being the one person standing in Zelena's way with the lightest magic is the same as Emma being the only person standing in villains' happy endings way. Which means the real "shocking" target is Woegina the real Savior Saint Victim. Snow even got to do the darkest! thing ever again. And they'll flip the finale where 3B was Emma and Hook's thing with Woegina's poor sad fate as the semi-cliffhanger, this time it'll be Robin and Woegina's adventure and Emma with the cliffhanger. But no worries! Woegina will not be the life ruiner-they have to keep one thing constant. So it'll be dumb ass Emma ruining her own life. Oh and I bet Rump seemingly gets his happy ending too with some grand Rumbelle moment that's overshadowed by some screwup of his. Maybe renewing vows or pregnant Belle in his fake happy world. Since there hasn't been a new billion dollar Disney cartoon out, we won't get an Elsa-esque cliffhanger. Unless we see a sonogram of Rumbelle's fetus and its shaped like a snowman and Belle calls it Olaf. Link to comment
Watt April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 Well a change of condition would be a pregnancy. If they go that route Bell seems most likely. Also, why didn't snow and charming care much about little neals darkness and lightness quota? Link to comment
legaleagle53 April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 Well a change of condition would be a pregnancy. If they go that route Bell seems most likely. Also, why didn't snow and charming care much about little neals darkness and lightness quota? Because Maleficent's warning at the tree was about the child that Snow was then pregnant with (Emma), not about a child that she would have 30-odd years later (and which nobody could possibly have foreseen happening). Link to comment
scenicbyway April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 I do think the 5a villain will be Emma with Hook leading the rescue mission to find her. My guess is that Captain Swan will be what we've seen this half season with Robin and Regina---a relationship told through previously unseen flashbacks or dreams---that way shippers still get there fix and continue to watch. Hook has been woefully underused this half season in the name of including Regina everywhere Emma goes. For me the intrigue is...what happens to Rumple. It looks as if Rumple does cleave himself from the dagger, does this mean he and Belle share a kiss that breaks the spell? Or, is he dead? I wonder if they are going to kill of Will. We've never gotten more of his story, now he just seems to make out with Belle. Perhaps this is the end of his story? Link to comment
RadioGirl27 April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 For me the intrigue is...what happens to Rumple. It looks as if Rumple does cleave himself from the dagger, does this mean he and Belle share a kiss that breaks the spell? Or, is he dead? At this point, after everything that he has done and what he is trying to do, the only logical option is to kill him. But it's this show, so A&E would probably try to redeem him and they would try to make us forget what he has done to Belle, Hook and Emma this season. Anyway, I don't know if this pic has been posted yet, but Lily and her daughter? More pics here Link to comment
KingOfHearts April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 (edited) Anyway, I don't know if this pic has been posted yet, but Lily and her daughter? More pics hereBut who's the baby daddy??!!!;) Edited April 22, 2015 by KingOfHearts Link to comment
HoodlumSheep April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 Is that girl gonna end up being Henry's girlfriend/future TL ? She probably is, isn't she? 2 Link to comment
YaddaYadda April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 But who's the baby daddy??!!! ;) Neal! Since their fates are so intertwined, maybe Neal met Lily and knocked her up too. The family tree isn't convoluted enough as it is. 6 Link to comment
FurryFury April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 They'll probably not be able to get MRJ back. So it's Hook. It's not like logic and common sense matter much for the show. Link to comment
YaddaYadda April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 So it's Hook. well all I have to say is thank God for those BTS. She walks right past him and they don't recognize each other. Please don't put stuff like that on the internet. 2 Link to comment
FurryFury April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 This was a joke. I mean, after all the stuff the show has thrown at us, I wouldn't be that shocked, but I wasn't really serious (although you probably know it already). 1 Link to comment
Rumsy4 April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 The real question is--was Lily's child an eggbaby as well? :;-) Link to comment
KingOfHearts April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 The real question is--was Lily's child an eggbaby as well? :;-) Now I'll be mad if we don't see Lily in dragon form in EF. Link to comment
The Cake is a Pie April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 I'm looking forward to seeing Mal's reaction when she realizes she's a grandmother. 1 Link to comment
ParadoxLost April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 Did we ever find out if Lily had a father or is it like the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park - life will find a way? Link to comment
YaddaYadda April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 We don't know who Lily's father is. And we can't really place anything in the context of a timeline because this show plays fast and loose with it. I'm still wondering why the Chernabog targeted Maleficent specifically. She had already done horrible things, so did she have even more untapped darkness potential than the two others? Cruella couldn't kill, her ability to do that was taken from her, so I'm thinking that would have had the most potential for darkness. Link to comment
FurryFury April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 Wasn't it because she was pregnant? Maybe it targeted Lily inside Mal, not Mal herself? I don't really remember if she was pregnant at the time, though. Link to comment
YaddaYadda April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 (edited) Wasn't it because she was pregnant? Maybe it targeted Lily inside Mal, not Mal herself? I don't really remember if she was pregnant at the time, though. That's what I thought too, but the stuff happened as the show put it "many years ago". So unless a dragon takes a long time to gestate (?) Maleficent goes to Snowing after Regina steals back the dark curse, she's already pregnant and she is close enough to laying her dragon egg, which makes Lily a good 7-8 months older than Emma. Was the timeline before or after David put the egg in Mal's dragon form? This whole thing is so ridiculously ambiguous. I do have a question, but I really hesitate to even write it at this point. If the beast targeted Maleficent because she was pregnant, then I have my foregone conclusion on that or something. ETA - Something just dawned on me regarding the whole dagger business. Regina used the dagger in 412 to free the fairies and they show her shaking and then there's a moment where she's looking at it a bit unsettled. Is it possible that using its power means that there's some kind of a tether that was created between her and the dagger? And then I'm assuming they might need the dagger again to release the Apprentice. Edited April 23, 2015 by YaddaYadda Link to comment
FurryFury April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 I do have a question, but I really hesitate to even write it at this point. Why not? go for it! I'm sure your question is nowhere as ridiculous as what Adam and Eddie are planning, anyway. 1 Link to comment
YaddaYadda April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 (edited) Why not? go for it! I'm sure your question is nowhere as ridiculous as what Adam and Eddie are planning, anyway. See, I wonder if the writers actually pay attention to whatever it is they are writing. Emma and Hook time travel and in order to save Hook from Rumple and to get him to cooperate, Emma tells Rumple about how he is planning to enact the dark curse and he replies that it's all mere speculation, which means that he is likely planning on stealing the dark curse, it is not in his possession just yet. The time travel puts us about what? 2-3 years before Emma's birth? Rumple also lies to the QoD (still so laughable!) about how he knows their secrets which we now know he doesn't. He had no clue Cruella knew the author back in the day and he certainly had no clue she could not kill anyone. He pretends to know all, but he really knows shit all when we think about it. So he takes them to the cave where the dark curse is to help him steal it, then he turns around and bids them farewell while telling them they're going to die because the beast seeks out the heart with the greatest potential for darkness. So the way I look at it and what I'm getting (and I'm actually re-watching 412 right now), Rumple considered his heart to have greatest potential for darkness, which means the beast would have sought him out and not any of the 3 others. That is the assumption he makes and he is the Dark One and he has done a lot of horrible things in his centuries. And it's the same assumption Regina makes, that the beast will kill her because it devours the heart with the darkest potential (direct quote). But then, he clearly doesn't know anything, because when the beast goes after Emma, we are supposed to believe that her heart is the one that has the greatest potential for darkness, but Emma as we find out has been wiped clean by what her parents did, taking away her darkness and the spell is apparently still at work as per Snow and her line after Emma says she would never hurt a defenseless person. And Rumple also mentions how the beast was going after Emma because she has the greatest potential for darkness. So here's my question...If Maleficent was pregnant during her encounter with the Chernabog and if Snow was sent flying by the tree of knowledge or wisdom (can't remember what they called it) because of the potential darkness of zygote Emma, then what does that say about Emma right now? Yeah, I know. Edited April 23, 2015 by YaddaYadda Link to comment
FurryFury April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 but Emma as we find out has been wiped clean by what her parents did, taking away her darkness and the spell is apparently still at work as per Snow and her line after Emma says she would never hurt a defenseless person. And Rumple also mentions how the beast was going after Emma because she has the greatest potential for darkness. God, it's all so stupid. So I guess the potential for darkness is still there inside Emma, but whatever it is that Snowing did (btw, what exactly did they do? Haven't seen that episode) "locked" or "froze" it. And something will happen when she meets Lily (probably) and with Rumple's help (probably) the potential will be "unlocked" and Emma will be able to become dark. Link to comment
Rumsy4 April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 I think Yadda Yadda may be suggesting that Emma could be pregnant. I hope not, because if CS haven't done the do yet, Walsh would be the baby daddy. Ugh... Link to comment
YaddaYadda April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 I think Yadda Yadda may be suggesting that Emma could be pregnant. I hope not, because if CS haven't done the do yet, Walsh would be the baby daddy. Ugh... No it won't. At least 3 months have passed since Emma was in NYC. They skipped the timeline by 9 weeks since the events of 411. I'm hoping they won't go there because I don't see how they would work that out and it's a lot of mental gymnastics for to me to actually arrive to that conclusion and apparently babies even if they barely have a heartbeat to hear are already dark or whatever crazy the show is peddling. 1 Link to comment
FurryFury April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 I'm sure Adam and Eddie would show CS sex if they've wanted to make Emma pregnant. Link to comment
Rumsy4 April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 I'm sure Adam and Eddie would show CS sex if they've wanted to make Emma pregnant. But it's also typical of them to fail to put in sufficient clues in order to protect their surprise twist. However, I do think that it's very unlikely Emma is pregnant. As to why she still has the greatest potential for darkness even though the Apprentice transferred it to baby Lily---who knows, other than saying A&E wanted it both ways. Link to comment
FurryFury April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 It's really weird how badly the season has been plotted, there are so many inconsistencies and unexplained issues. Not to mention the big retcons are badly defined and make no sense. It's like they don't even care anymore. 1 Link to comment
YaddaYadda April 23, 2015 Share April 23, 2015 We haven't been introduced to the Sorcerer yet, but powerful or not, he is the stupidest person ever. Creates the hat that can help separate the Dark One from the dagger and probably created the dark curse. WTF, dude! Let's create these things that can contribute to mayhem and destruction. Anyway, we still have 4 hours of this drivel to get through. Link to comment
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