Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Curio]

What if this is Regina's (not so) happy ending. The Author takes her back to the tavern and she chooses Robin, making the new page real, so there is no curse and everybody goes back to EF to be who they should have been: Snow and Charming are Queen and King, Emma is a princess, Hook goes back to drunken pirate, etc., and Henry is left behind.

 

I want this to be the entire plot of 5A so bad. Heck, they could stretch it out an entire season if they wanted to because time moves so freaking slow on this show. I've built up all these great storylines in my head about this that it's gotten to the point where if we get any other kind of plot for Season 5, I'll be disappointed.

 

They can keep Henry alive by having two alternate universes going on at once - Henry's stuck in the "Real Life Storybrooke" timeline while everyone else is in the "Regina's Happy Ending™ Enchanted Forest" timeline. Henry can finally act more like a teenager and venture out into the real world alone and figure out a way to get back to everyone (Henry would realize what it must have felt like to be Emma when she was his age) while Emma (who'd probably be the only one who remembers their real lives because she's the savior) has to convince everyone in Regina's timeline that they need to go back* to Storybrooke. The only challenging thing would be having to put a bunch of people in makeup every day to make them appear 30 years older than their Storybrooke counterparts.

 

*Obligatory Lost reference.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Curio

[retrograde]

I don't think Regina would want a do-over now Robin is back and also knowing that she would have to give up Henry.

I DO hope they've all been sucked off to another world, though I'm less excited by "we have to get home to Henry" as their motivation again. I'd also love to see them all stuck in their EF lives again, but I don't think the writers have the patience to do that for more than an episode before everyone would remember Storybrooke and their other lives again.

[kili]

Baby Do Over was not born in the EF either.  There's a lot of kids, babies who would be left behind.\

 

Baby Do Over at least conceived in the EF and spent time there as a fetus. Henry has never been there at all.

 

I have visions of an old Star Trek episode (New Generation) where people keep disappearing from the Enterprise. Wesley is desperately trying to save them until he realizes that he is the one who was sucked into another dimension that is slowly collapsing around him. Maybe everybody doesn't get sucked somewhere, maybe Henry does.  As part of the happy ending for Regina, he is sucked into an AU where he is alone. Why he would be in Storybrooke makes no sense, but none of the Author plot does, so why should my theory make any sense either? This way people in  Real Storybrooke could be desperately trying to get Henry back and he could be doing the same thing in AU Storybrooke.

 

Or maybe this is finally where Will comes in. I keep wondering if he's dating Belle for ulterior reasons like he's trying to find something in Gold's shop that can get him back to Ana.

 

I'm not into that theory. Belle just got out of a relationship where the guy was manipulating her all the time. She doesn't need another guy using her.

[retrograde]

This person http://you-broughtmehome.tumblr.com/post/113462572200/heres-some-pics-of-jared-when-he-came-to-meet-the says they heard on location today that there will be a two-day shoot in Steveston in two weeks. If so, that probably kills the idea of everyone being gone for 5a... unless 4.22 is just Henry reenacting "Home Alone".

[YaddaYadda]

Baby Do Over at least conceived in the EF and spent time there as a fetus. Henry has never been there at all.

 

So would that be their contrived reason to explain why Do Over can travel realms but Henry can't.  This better not be another Henry hashtag because I will quit this bitch so fast!  (probably not because I'm a sucker for punishment when it comes to this show).

 

I can't believe they're close to wrapping up  filming for this season though.  I'm gonna need someone to hold me.

Edited March 12, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Curio]

I don't think Regina would want a do-over now Robin is back and also knowing that she would have to give up Henry.

 

I doubt Regina would want a do-over now, but she could accidentally cause something like a do-over to happen because of how fickle she is with her happiness. It could be something as simple as her holding the taped page of her and Robin and wistfully saying in front of the author, "I should have just chosen him the first time" without actually 100% meaning she wants the author to take her back to that decision and do an actual re-do.

[The Cake is a Pie]

I've been thinking about this spoilers about Henry. What if this is Regina's (not so) happy ending. The Author takes her back to the tabern and she chooses Robin, making the new page real, so there is no curse and everybody goes back to EF to be who they should have been: Snow and Charming are Queen and King, Emma is a princess, Hook goes back to drunken pirate, etc., and Henry is left behind. But, somehow Regina remembers Henry and tries to go back to him, and we have a finale with Regina being a hero, saving everybody.

I want this to happen, except with a twist that somehow Regina inadvertently does something to Emma that turns EMMA into the Evil Queen, who vows revenge against Regina. So now Regina would know how it felt to live under her tyranny. Regina still remembers Henry somehow, so she has to find a way to set the story right. Meanwhile, back in SB all alone, Henry starts to fade from existence Back to the Future style, since Emma and Neal never met.

Edited March 12, 2015 by The Cake is a Pie

[YaddaYadda]

 

I doubt Regina would want a do-over now, but she could accidentally cause something like a do-over to happen because of how fickle she is with her happiness. It could be something as simple as her holding the taped page of her and Robin and wistfully saying in front of the author, "I should have just chosen him the first time" without actually 100% meaning she wants the author to take her back to that decision and do an actual re-do.

You know, then this should be HER alternate reality, not everyone else's.  It's like why must everyone suffer through Regina's fucked up wants and wishes and desires?  She casts the dark curse?  A whole kingdom gets sucked in even though she's mainly after Snow.  People hating her is her own damn fault.  Pan's curse, her sacrifice becomes everyone's sacrifice.  What did Neal do to deserve being separated from his son?  I may have my problems with Neal, but he didn't deserve that.  Emma didn't deserve to be separated from her parents or even Hook whom she had chosen.

 

And now because this wackjob makes an oopsie, everyone pays for it?  Why doesn't she pay the price ALONE for a change?

 

Everyone should be living happily in Storybrooke while she's living her alternate reality, asleep in her bed or whatever.

Edited March 12, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Curio]

And now because this wackjob makes an oopsie, everyone pays for it?  Why doesn't she pay the price ALONE for a change?

 

As long as Storybrooke still exists, that's basically the entire premise of the show, right? The only reason they live in Storybrooke is because of Regina's decision to cast the curse. So with TS;TW, as unfair as it may be, it'd just be par for the course.

 

And since we're veering more into speculation than spoilers here, I'll bring it back to The Apprentice sighting in 4.21. Any chance that fake VHS video of Hook sucking him into the hat might resurface? Or have the writers completely forgotten about that plot point? If Rumple wanted to turn someone gullible like Henry against Hook for whatever scheme he's running, he could leave that VHS lying around for him to find.

[YaddaYadda]

And since we're veering more into speculation than spoilers here, I'll bring it back to The Apprentice sighting in 4.21. Any chance that fake VHS video of Hook sucking him into the hat might resurface? Or have the writers completely forgotten about that plot point? If Rumple wanted to turn someone gullible like Henry against Hook for whatever scheme he's running, he could leave that VHS lying around for him to find.

 

Wouldn't Hook have come clean about that?  I seem to recall the Apprentice' home which was rented out to Yen Sid.  So it's not like they don't know about him being in the hat.  I'm assuming Emma knows the whole story and so would Henry, no?

 

I would say that Henry should know better than going near his psycho Grandfather who tried to hat his mother in order to cut himself loose from the dagger, but it's this show and these writers and it's Henry who does his schtick of but they're awesome now, so who knows.

 

I did see a BTS from last week I think where Henry is hugging Robin, you know his one week "stepdad".  Who knows with Henry.

[Curio]

Wouldn't Hook have come clean about that? I seem to recall the Apprentice's home which was rented out to Yen Sid. So it's not like they don't know about him being in the hat. I'm assuming Emma knows the whole story and so would Henry, no?

 

I would assume Hook told Emma about it, but I think the adults in Storybrooke try to keep Henry in the dark as much as possible. I could see Emma and the core "heroes" being the only ones who know about it. I honestly doubt it'll come up (since it was a pretty stupid threat by Rumple to begin with), but I just had the thought of Rumple trying to get Henry to trust him by showing him that his mom's boyfriend hasn't made very good decisions either.

 

I think this is me desperately wanting one of the pieces from Chekhov's arsenal that was introduced in 4A to actually mean something to the overall plot. I should probably just quit while I'm ahead...

[retrograde]

I did see a BTS from last week I think where Henry is hugging Robin, you know his one week "stepdad".  Who knows with Henry.

Pretty sure that was just the actors saying hello.

 

Agnes Bruckner seems to be back in LA. Wonder if they're done with Lily already?

[Shanna Marie]

So would that be their contrived reason to explain why Do Over can travel realms but Henry can't.

That was the reason they gave why Ashely's baby wouldn't have been left behind when they went back before the Missing Year. Henry is still the only character conceived in our world. That we know of.

 

Any chance that fake VHS video of Hook sucking him into the hat might resurface?

Hook and Belle were talking about Hook having helped suck the Apprentice into the hat, and there was stuff about the Apprentice's home on the Conspiracy Board, so Hook doesn't seem to be hiding it. I would assume Emma knows, but on this show, there's no telling, since all the important stuff happens offscreen. We can't see Emma finding out everything that happened with Rumple, but we need to spend hours watching Regina and Henry reading a book.

 

The thing with the potential reset is, is the other version of reality worse/better or just different? If they don't know it's changed, then how is it "wrong"? If Emma were conscious of having grown up in our world, having Henry, him finding her, her finding her parents, and then meeting Hook, then yeah, she's probably not going to be happy in an alternate reality. But if she's just a princess who grew up in a palace with no knowledge of the other life, she's not going to miss it, and if you told her she was supposed to have grown up as an orphan, had a child she gave away as a teenager, and was dating a pirate -- the one she knows as that old drunk down by the docks -- she'd think that sounded like a horrible life. Though I suppose Emma's existence depends on whether Snow and Charming got together if Regina hadn't turned evil. I guess George still could have been evil and still could have forced David to take James's place, and he might have arranged a marriage between "James" and Snow. Or David could have met Snow at his own engagement ball.

 

Or Rumple could have just found someone else to cast the curse, and it all ended up happening exactly the same way, other than Regina and Robin being together, though if she was subject to the curse, she might not have adopted Henry.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Or Rumple could have just found someone else to cast the curse, and it all ended up happening exactly the same way, other than Regina and Robin being together, though if she was subject to the curse, she might not have adopted Henry.

Maybe Henry is immune to the timeline change for some reason, then when the AU happens, he's in cursed Storybrooke? That scene of him alone could be a few moments before it's "completed". So then he has to figure out how to break the curse. With Zelena back, perhaps she's the new curse caster, since the prophecy specified it had to be Cora's daughter. Maybe the AU made her love someone else the most since she may no longer be jealous of Regina's position. They could pull contrivances out of a hat if they wanted to.

Edited March 13, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

So the Apprentice has had a change of clothes from what he had on when he was sucked into the hat.  I guess whatever he is doing has to do with the Sorcerer.

 

It's interesting that the more "spoilers" we get the more confused I am.

[Mathius]

Pretty sure that was just the actors saying hello.

 

Agnes Bruckner seems to be back in LA. Wonder if they're done with Lily already?

Probably. She was said to only be in three episodes: 4x19, 4x20, and 4x21. They're currently filming 4x21, so she likely finished her scenes for the episode.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Probably. She was said to only be in three episodes: 4x19, 4x20, and 4x21. They're currently filming 4x21, so she likely finished her scenes for the episode.

I'm guessing Maleficent moves in with her to help parent her child, and we never see them again.

Edited March 13, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[retrograde]

I'm guessing Maleficent moves in with her to help parent her child, and we never see them again.

This would make a great sitcom: A single mother raising a young daughter in a small town in Maine is reunited with her long-lost mother -- who is really a magical queen from a fairytale world! They all live in a trailer together and hilarity ensues.

[Joanh23]

i think Emma would be willing to cross the line to save Hook or her parents and not just Henry at this stage. But I agree I think Emma will think she's doing the right thing only for it to blow up in her face. I'm interested in seeing how Henry will react if Emma does go dark - when he found out she lied about Neal he gave her the cold shoulder for days - so I'm curious to see how he'll react to a "not saviour" Emma

[YaddaYadda]

Well anything Emma does in Henry's little universe that isn't the right thing is BAD.  I can tell you he wouldn't be making baskets to console if she did something terrible and was depressed about it.  He after all isn't sure about her choice of boyfriend (but you know, he wants her to be happy, so sacrifice!) so he tolerated the guy she is with now even though said guy doesn't have a wife or a small child.  (I know we don't know how Henry really feels about Hook, but this is how I choose to interpret it.  I guess it would make him happier if his girlfriend came back from the dead since affairs are the one thing Henry seems to support).

 

And he doesn't call her mom when he's talking to his other mom, but when his talking to mom!Emma, he does call other mom my mom, so....

 

It's not that I want Emma to have a baby because babies are very meh, but I really want her to have a baby that's not Henry and that doesn't belong mostly to Regina.  

[RadioGirl27]

Sneak peek 2, a gift for Swan Queen shippers.

[Emma]

Oh ffs. I can't with that clip. Why do they do this to Emma?

[Alex]

Well, wasn't she going to turn dark? Here we go.

[pezgirl7]

Emma is too good for these people. The only bright spot in that sneak peek was Hook and Charming exchanging glances. Hook was probably wondering what soft ball is and if he should be super offended at being called a mascot.

[Emma]

I wonder if Snowing will take any blame in this possible turn for Emma? It's they're stupid secret that gets this ball rolling.

[Souris]

Oh ffs. I can't with that clip. Why do they do this to Emma?

 

Because they don't actually care about Emma. She's just set dressing for Regina's story, like everybody else on the show.

[Curio]

Whoa, Regina. Watch your use of the "p-word." I doubt we should be throwing that around if the "e-word" isn't allowed anymore, either.

 

Can Hook and Charming's exchanged glances mean that they mentally agreed to just have a few drinks at The Rabbit Hole instead of going through with this stupid plan? I'd much rather watch that scene.

[YaddaYadda]

This is how we know that things will not end well for Emma.

 

Go Mongoose yourself Regina, seriously!

[legaleagle53]

Emma is too good for these people. The only bright spot in that sneak peek was Hook and Charming exchanging glances. Hook was probably wondering what soft ball is and if he should be super offended at being called a mascot.

 

That, and Snow's look when Emma said she was going undercover with Regina.

[RadioGirl27]

Can Hook and Charming's exchanged glances mean that they mentally agreed to just have a few drinks at The Rabbit Hole instead of going through with this stupid plan? I'd much rather watch that scene.

Yeah, me too. At this point Hook and Charming are the only characters I care for. I also like Emma, but only when she is not kissing Regina's ass.

 

This is how we know that things will not end well for Emma.

 

Go Mongoose yourself Regina, seriously!

I'm pretty sure all this is Rumple's plan. No way he doesn't know Regina is playing them. He is going to use Regina to make Emma do something he needs in his quest, and that thing, whatever it is, would put Emma in the path of darkness.

Edited March 13, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[YaddaYadda]

I'm pretty sure all this is Rumple's plan.

 

Of course it's all Rumple's plan.  Rumple who doesn't really share details of anything, ever, but has people do his bidding.  Maybe the "thing" they need to retrieve or whatever it was is Emma but they'll call her by a different name so that no one knows until the last minute.

[MaiLuna]

I miss the Emma in my icon. Please, let her come back.

[sharky]

I'm pretty sure all this is Rumple's plan. No way he doesn't know Regina is playing them. He is going to use Regina to make Emma do something he needs in his quest, and that thing, whatever it is, would put Emma in the path of darkness.

He's already aware of the book idea since Regina told him so I wouldn't be surprised. But I'm wondering if all this teasing about "Emma going dark" is really just Emma going undercover with the Evil Trio. Maybe they want us to believe she could go dark because they want the Queens of Darkness to believe she can go dark.

 

Also, I've started thinking out this Wonderful Life Theory and I think it definitely has some potential. Jennifer said in her Twitter ask that her favorite costume is coming up. Perhaps she does in fact get dressed up as a princess because she's going to be a princess if Regina gets her happy ending with Robin and doesn't enact the Dark Curse. And of course then Henry is alone in Storybrooke while everyone else is in the EF. But seeing as this is just 4x20, I wonder if Regina knows the truth about the story being changed and decides to change it back so she can get back to Henry. Of course, that will still piss me off a bit. These characters just need to stay somewhere. Go to the Enchanted Forest and stay there or live in Storybrooke. Stop hopping back and forth.

[MaiLuna]

The Hot Seat: Once Upon a Time bosses answer your burning questions

[Serena]

The "deserted Storybrooke" thing is 421, not 420, so the consequences of changing the book could very well be 421/422 as a two-hour finale. 

Here's the hot seat. Nothing much new, and who knows what "big adventure" actually means? I'd love if they had the two-hour finale again with CS like last year, and it was really popular and critically well received, but when have A&E ever been able to recognize a good thing?

[RadioGirl27]

This makes me happy:

 

Does Rumple’s new quest for a happy ending re-write include Baelfire?
KITSIS: It does not, because unfortunately Baelfire is no longer with us.
HOROWITZ: But the loss of Baelfire weighs heavily on his quest and it’s addressed.

And this sad:

 

Will we ever see Hook as a young boy?
KITSIS: Not this season, but someday.

Translation: only if we find a way to add Regina in that flashback.

[Serena]

I mean, I don't want Neal back, but it's stupid that his quest doesn't include him. If this author is all powerful, why can't Rumple coerce him to write "and then Rumple found a magic potion that resurrected people, and Neal came back"?

[Selina K]

 

 

Will Emma and Hook have another crazy adventure this year?

HOROWITZ: Yes.

 

Well, this makes me happy, assuming that doesn't mean "It's so crazy that Emma and Hook walked into the library together to meet up with Regina, right?"

[KingOfHearts]

That sneak peek... I didn't get why Emma was so protective of Regina, as if she couldn't handle herself. When they made that comment about going undercover skills, all I could think of was when Regina disguised herself as Wilma and totally blew it. Regina is many things - subtle isn't one of them.

So tired of Swan Queen making characters act so bizarre.

Edited March 13, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[FurryFury]

I'm disappointed Rumple doesn't want Neal back. There is no in-story reason for this - just actor unavailability. And hell, they could have used a younger version of him not played by MRJ.

[YaddaYadda]

An adventure of last year's sort of magnitude.  I got all giddy about it, but I just can't think about this because I don't wanna get my hopes up.  I couldn't even watch GoT after the season finale last year.  Couldn't even focus I was so far down the rabbit hole of fangirl heaven.

[pezgirl7]

An adventure of last year's sort of magnitude.  I got all giddy about it, but I just can't think about this because I don't wanna get my hopes up. 

 

Same here! And they never said "an adventure together". I hope CaptainSwan isn't separated, but if they are, I just hope the adventure takes place in the EF, or some other awesome land, and there's cool sets that aren't all CGI, and there's sword fighting and hijinks. But I'll try not to get my hopes up. CaptainSwan The Movie™ was an awesome surprise, so anything is possible.

[RadioGirl27]

Same here! And they never said "an adventure together".

I was going to say just that. They never say that Hook and Emma are going on an adventure together, so it can be Emma with Regina (the road trip) and Hook with someone else. This is me right now.

Edited March 13, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[LizaD]

 

I'm disappointed Rumple doesn't want Neal back. There is no in-story reason for this - just actor unavailability. And hell, they could have used a younger version of him not played by MRJ.

 

This. I also took this as confirmation that there IS an Author and one that has the actual power to write crap. Because if there isn't one then there would be no reason why Neal can't be Rump's quest and have him fail or realize that there is no one with that power. How disappointing. I was really hoping this whole dumb Author thing would turn out to be a red herring where some bum working at McDonald's tells them to go "write" their own freaking ending idiots. Or die. 

 

So I'm laying my money on the peddler being the writer. He's the only other guest of note. If not, then it has to be someone in the cast already.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm surprised as everyone that Rumple wouldn't want to try and get his son back as part of his happy ending.  For me at least, it nullifies his centuries old quest, the dark curse and everything he has done to be reunited with him.  I thought for sure he would attempt something just to fail spectacularly at it.

[Curio]

Will Emma and Hook have another crazy adventure this year?

HOROWITZ: Yes.

You know what's really sad? I think the last time Hook and Emma teamed up to take down a bad guy, it was the premiere episode of 4A. And that wasn't so much teamwork as it was running away from the snow monster and relying on Emma's magic to save the day. Since then, they've always been separated during a crisis. Hook and Elsa went off together to spy on the Snow Queen while Emma and Charming tracked down Will. Regina and Emma battled a lame CGI viking, and Emma and Elsa were paired up for the rest of the season dealing with the Snow Queen while Hook was doing stuff with Rumple. And then in the 4B premiere, it was Emma and Regina fighting off the Chernabog while everyone else was useless and Emma and Charming teamed up to track down Cruella and Ursula. Why didn't Hook go with them for a ride-along? What does he even do all day? Just wait around to have dates with Emma and deliver her grilled cheeses? Hang with Belle? Why doesn't he have a job by now? Listen, I'm glad he's branching out and making new friends and not being attached to Emma's hip 24/7, but it'd be nice to see some of that other development on screen. So yeah, I'm taking that spoiler with a huge grain of salt.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'm surprised as everyone that Rumple wouldn't want to try and get his son back as part of his happy ending.  For me at least, it nullifies his centuries old quest, the dark curse and everything he has done to be reunited with him.  I thought for sure he would attempt something just to fail spectacularly at it.

I never got the vibe that Rumple actually cared about Belle enough for her to be part of his happy ending. Perhaps briefly in Skin Deep, but it's always been Himself, His Power, Bae, then Belle. I'm not sure why he even cared she's with Will now. Knowing Rumple, he would be swearing revenge against Belle by now, like he did with Milah. What they're doing is a retcon to appease Rumpbellers, if you ask me. I always pictured Bae + Power as his happy ending. For Rumple to not even look into it just feels sort of meh.

 

I just don't buy Rumple's need for Belle. I really don't.

Edited March 13, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

What does the QoD wanting to shift the entire balance even mean? It's all so vague... It's no-meaning drivel.

I agree about Rumple. Since when did having his Happy Ending not include Bae? Unless he's decided that he would never be able to manipulate Bae/Neal the way he's been manipulating Belle. If so, he's lost an essential humanizing part of him. It's not even the same character anymore.

[Shanna Marie]

I never got the impression that anyone (okay, other than maybe Regina) thought the Author could change the past, just the future. So bringing Bae back isn't going to happen. Rumple just wants his future worked out, which seems to involve maintaining his Dark One power and immortality so that he can have that power anywhere and so that no one else can control him, and also get Belle back. Who knows what the hell Regina wants. I guess the other villains just want to win for a change instead of always being defeated by the bad guys (which brings up the question of why be a villain if you know it's some kind of cosmic rule that you will always be defeated).

 

Though all of this brings up the question of free will in so many ways. Not only does it suggest that there's some fate making people be the way they are, denying their free will, but if one person gets their wish, it removes the free will from others. Would Belle's happy ending be with an all-powerful Rumple? If he gets his happy ending, what does that mean for her? If Regina gets Robin, what does that mean for Marian? What about her happy ending?

[daxx]

Dropping expectations for the finale, title spoiler Operation Mongoose part 1. Sigh, so it will be the Swan queen version of last years.