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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

regularlyleaded

By regularlyleaded
in Once Upon A Time

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FurryFury

FurryFury

Huh, Cruella coming out on top would be actually interesting and unexpected. Talk about the real underdog!

Although any of the Queens besting Rumple would be a real shock. Which means it will never happen. They'll try, of course, but he'll definitely win eventually.

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Camera One
Camera One

When everyone realized Rumple and Regina weren't coming back, they had a big celebration and put on a cloaking spell so they can never be found or contacted ever again.

Curio
Curio

At least someone is freaking out over Emma's darkness. Keep giving a shit, Hook! You're pretty much the only one who does...

Serena
Serena

HER GRANDMA IS EMMA! Are they being serious with this?

KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

 

 

Huh, Cruella coming out on top would be actually interesting and unexpected. Talk about the real underdog!

Although any of the Queens besting Rumple would be a real shock. Which means it will never happen. They'll try, of course, but he'll definitely win eventually.

I really want her to join the cast... or at least one of them. It's crazy to think that all three of them could be disposed just so A&E can keep their arcs separate. But from the spoilers it looks like we may be getting Zelena instead. She seems to be coming back for more than just flashbacks, according to that "the news of my death were greatly exaggerated" spoiler.

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Curio

Curio

(edited)

My guess would be out of the 3 of them one of them is gonna turn "hero" and get a good Happy Ending.

 

My money's on Ursula. She helped grab Mal with her tentacles and saved her from the Chernabog, she let Rumple crash on her couch and eat her ramen for 6 weeks, and seemed like a pretty normal person working at an aquarium in the real world. She doesn't scream "super-duper-villain" to me. And especially if Hook is the one who screwed her over in the past, he'll probably work hard to try and rectify what he did and make things right now. I could see a big finale showdown where Rumple allows Ursula to get her revenge on Hook and kill him for what he did to her in the past, but then she'll make a turnaround, forgive him, and secretly go behind Rumple's back and join the hero side of the fight.

 

Edit: Okay, now I really want this to happen because there would be some nice bookend irony to her phone call with Regina in the premiere episode. She was totally bullshitting her way through that conversation about how much she "learned her lesson" and wanted to "change," so if she ends up actually changing for real and joining the good side, it would make Emma and Regina's stupid (it bears repeating: stupid) decision to let them in somewhat worth it.

Edited by Curio
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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

You know even Cruella doesn't seem to be all that bad.  Her husband was being dragged in handcuffs by the FBI, she probably decided she was going to find another rich husband.  It seems like she might have grown up dirt poor.

 

I wouldn't even mind seeing any of those two being redeemed, but please, not by suicide.  Once was enough.

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sharky

sharky

I keep going back to the idea that Ursula somehow has the Jolly Roger and in exchange for Hook redeeming himself and helping her get rid of Gold somehow, she returns the favor by giving him his ship back. Seriously, I miss that damn thing. Is it really that hard to just park it in the harbor so he and Emma can have their own place?

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

Seriously, I miss that damn thing

 

You and me both.  The Jolly Roger is a character in its own right for me at this point.  And I felt the same thing when I saw the Cruellamobile.  Maybe it's because they are so iconic.  The small glimpse of the Jolly Roger in 4A made me oh so very happy that I disregarded everything that was wrong with that episode (wishing star anyone?)

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FurryFury

FurryFury

But from the spoilers it looks like we may be getting Zelena instead. She seems to be coming back for more than just flashbacks, according to that "the news of my death were greatly exaggerated" spoiler.

 

God please no. I'd take literally any other arc villain over Zelena.

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Curio

Curio

After re-watching the premiere episode, the idea of Lily coming in for a major three-episode arc seriously pisses me off. The premiere episode barely had enough time for 15 seconds of Charming and Robin and Will weren't even in it. That's three main characters thrown into the background in favor of the new villains. And now the writers want to throw in this Lily character no one was begging to know more about for an important storyline? She had better have some huge connection to either The Author or The Sorcerer, otherwise, I...ugh. I can't even threaten that I'll stop watching this show because I'm an addict and can't quit. But...I'll be very angry!

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sharky

sharky

Actually, it's not. That's from the 4A finale when the Evil Trio kidnap Belle for that dumb silver glove or whatever. Although it does make me wonder how Belle is going to react to seeing the Queens of Darkness after their past encounter. ;)

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Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

Maybe we're getting some kind of It's a Wonderful Life thing (It's a Horrible Life?) where we see the world where villains get happy endings and they learn that maybe villains not prevailing isn't such a bad thing.

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

Wow, Pinnochio has really grown up.

 

 

They really should have had a town meeting before letting them in. Just about every character other than Regina and Emma has a good reason to want them out.

Shouldn't have Emma at least asked Regina how she knew them?

Edited by KingOfHearts
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FabulousTater

FabulousTater

(edited)
I can't even threaten that I'll stop watching this show because I'm an addict and can't quit. But...I'll be very angry!

In general (not directed at you Curio, just a general observation) I would say this is why this show will never get any better. The plot will continue to suck, they'll keep introducing senseless plots about characters no one wanted to see again (Lily), adding regulars that only get two lines every other episodes (Will), and worst of all the Woegina Permaboner will continue to grow obscenely larger and stronger because no matter what loads of offensive, stupid, stinking crap these writers squeeze out of their butts, people keep watching.

 

This shows viewership are predominantly (show) junkies -- the real casual viewers left months ago -- and junkies always go back to their dealer no matter how crap they are or how crap the product is. The show could be 41 continuous minutes of a scene wholly focused on a pile of dog crap on the sidewalk, but as long as the writers give their customers their crack -- a 26 second scene of <insert_your_favorite_character/"ship"> -- people will keep coming back for more.

 

I don't think anyone should worry about this show ever being cancelled. It's going to be here, delivering nonstop Woegina Permaboner storylines, for a very, very, very long time.

Edited by FabulousTater
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sharky

sharky

(edited)

More than that.

Gosh, Lana, JMo, Bex, Jared, Colin, Sean on set

What kind of messed up mess is that? First, what happened to our Evil Trio? And second, what the hell is with all those people? Pictures better show up soon!

Edited by sharky
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RadioGirl27

RadioGirl27

(edited)

They are doing it, they are really doing it: (the Marian is really Zelena thing)

 

As far as I can see:

Bug + other car arrive back in sorrybrooke. Emma gets out and hugs Henry first, then Hook. Lily gets out of the bug too. Regina and Robin get out of the orher car with Roland.

Then Regina and David go back the bug and basically drag Zelena (yes really, Bex is here) out of the car.

This is not just jumping the shark, it's jumping the whole ocean.

 

Edit: if we need any more proof: Zelena is wearing Marian's coat.

Edited by RadioGirl27
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orza

orza

This is not surprising that Zelena is back. The clues were all there in 3B. The "death" scene with Zelena, Rumple and the dagger in the jail exactly paralleled the scene of Zelena, Dorothy and the bucket of water, in which we saw that she was not really dead but had just tricked Dorothy into thinking she was. We also had Glinda saying in one episode that Zelena's power or life force or whatever was in the necklace and then saw the green magic smoke emerge from the necklace and find its way to the portal back to the EF along with Emma and Hook.

 

Apparently, they are going with Zelena has been impersonating Marion and Emma actually brought Zelena back from her time travel adventure, not Marion. The real Marion probably died a long time ago as Robin always believed..

 

Rebecca Mader has been regularly attending conventions and promoting the show since her character's supposed demise last spring. Eion Bailey started promoting the show at conventions shortly before it was announced that he was returning for a guest appearance on the show. Robby Kay has also been diligently promoting the show at conventions. My guess is he will be back next year or perhaps in the season finale to set up Rumple's story line for next season.

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retrograde

retrograde

(edited)

I was actually convinced of the Marian is Zelena theory after season 3, but dropped it after nothing happened in 4a. I guess this is what was originally supposed to flow on from there. Shame it didn't, really, because we could have avoided Robin's bullshit "We have to break up but no not really because my penis" and crypt sex.

(I don't think convention attendance is s sign of anything on the show, though. Actors do then because they pay really well, and the convention organizers set the appearances up through their individual publicists, not through ABC.)

Edited by retrograde
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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

All I have to say is poor Marian.  Regina didn't kill her, but Zelena very likely did.  How can anyone not feel sorry for this woman?  She dies and then her memory gets tarnished and her husband tells her he doesn't really love her anymore.

 

Marian, biggest victim ever on this show.  I don't know if that's what they intended on doing, but I feel beyond sorry for her.

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pezgirl7

pezgirl7

And what about Roland? He gets to lose his mother, again. But I'm sure Regina will be there to take her place. I never really believed the show would do the whole Zelena is Marian thing. Marian seemed pretty adamant about not wanting to go to the future with Hook and Emma, but maybe that was just acting on Zelena's part? And if Zelena wanted to leave town, why didn't she just leave right away on her first night back? Or maybe she didn't want to leave, and was truly frozen and taken across the town line against her wishes. So many questions. I am still not 100% convinced that Zelena is Marian though!

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Selina K

Selina K

(edited)

Shame it didn't, really, because we could have avoided Robin's bullshit "We have to break up but no not really because my penis" and crypt sex.

 

Retrograde, you win the internet today because I'm dying over this Zelena / Marion thing and this just made me laugh hysterically.

 

So if Zelena = Marion and real!Marion is long gone, did she still die because of Regina or was it somehow Emma and Snow's fault because they're gray and villains are not real - it's just an illusion (in best Doug Henning voice.)

 

So, Zelena = Marion = Richie's mom = Fonzie friend of Richie = motorcycle = shark = Superbowl = Katy Perry

 

So Zelena is really Katy Perry and this has all just been the fever dream of a Katy Perry video.  That makes as much sense as anything else at this point.

Edited by Selina K
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scenicbyway

scenicbyway

I think the fact that their bringing back Zelena is very worrisome.  They've got 3 villians plus Rumple and they need Zelena as well?  Throw the mysterious Lily into the mix and where are our main characters?

 

Oz was last year, why bring Zelena back now?  Just to show that she's been still trying to wreck Regina's potential happiness?  To show that Emma can be duped?  I think that they had no intention of bringing Zelena back but recognized that there wasn't enough focus on the Robin and Regina drama and needed a way to put it front and center.  If anything, the QOD have overshadowed the Robin and Regina story (not that I'm complaining).

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

They are doing it, they are really doing it: (the Marian is really Zelena thing)

This is not just jumping the shark, it's jumping the whole ocean.

 

Edit: if we need any more proof: Zelena is wearing Marian's coat.

 

Not usually the one to advocate caution (especially with this show), but it's possible that Zelena found Robin and co. in the Real World, and then killed Marian. As someone in that tumblr post pointed out, if Zelena was really impersonating Marian in Storybrooke, she should have switched back once she crossed over the town line. Also, when Regina took out Marian's heart to save her from Ingrid's spell, the heart was red, with no dark spots. 

 

However, I am sick of Zelena, and do not like the fact that she is back. 

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retrograde

retrograde

I don't know if they'll actually do much with Zelena. But now they potentially have a whole mess of villains in town and only one very insecure jail cell. Perhaps they'll have to open a portal to dispose of them.

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Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

As someone in that tumblr post pointed out, if Zelena was really impersonating Marian in Storybrooke, she should have switched back once she crossed over the town line.

Yeah, her magic disguise should have stopped working over the town line -- unless she's like Emma and has magic that works in the outside world. Her flying monkey magic apparently worked in New York.

 

But if Zelena switches places with Marian back during the time travel, then it's the most convoluted and dumbest scheme ever because it relies on a lot of ifs that were totally out of her control. She would have had no way of knowing that Emma would be thrown in the dungeon with her, no way of planning on Emma being able to escape and taking her with her. Zelena wasn't nearly subtle enough to use reverse psychology in her "you go and save yourself" act in the dungeon and her "I'm not going with you because I'm going to my family now" act once she was saved. In fact, there's no way Zelena would have managed to sustain the ruse that long without snapping, and can you imagine her keeping an even remotely straight face in telling Regina that it's totally okay if her husband chooses Regina?

 

So I could sort of buy her still being alive. I couldn't begin to buy her having been Marian all along.

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

So I could sort of buy her still being alive. I couldn't begin to buy her having been Marian all along.

 

Same here. 

 

Those are good points, Rumsy, but do we really think the writers thought of them?

 

Good point. If Marian really turns out to have been Zelena all along, that might be the final straw for me. Forget about jumping the shark, it's Blackbeard jumping over a Sharknado of Megalodons on the Jolly Roger.

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

Didn't they just create a precedent with Chernabog, a totally magical creature that just went poof the moment it crossed the town line?  Maybe they should think before they write stuff like that.

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

Not sure what to say about all this. I would like to see Zelena and Regina form a sisterly bond. It would make sense for Zelena to have made the switch in New York. It's funny to have speculated such a ridiculous theory, only to have it come true. Only on Once, people.

 

 

If Zelena did become Marion in order to make Regina miserable, her new plan is illogical and stupid. It relies on far too many variables beyond her control.

Unless it's like InsertWordHere's theory, where Zelena had no control over it. Or it has to do with whatever is in the Wizard's furniture shop.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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kili

kili

(edited)
Those are good points, Rumsy, but do we really think the writers thought of them?

 

No, because they will think it is a Great Idea (even though all the OQ fans thought it up 8 months ago and even some non-fans too, so it is hardly an Original Idea (Non-)). All logic and continuity can be tossed into the dumpster for a Great Idea.

 

If Zelena did become Marion in order to make Regina miserable, her new plan is illogical and stupid. It relies on far too many variables beyond her control.

 

As much as I have hated the absolute slaughter of the Robin/Mariane true love story, I would hate even more if Mariane has been Zelena all along. Give the poor woman a little dignity. If Zelena wants to mess with Regina, she should be shape-shifting Robin. That would seriously mess her up. And then we would totally understand why this version of Robin is such a feckless, loser. Mariane is far too awesome to be shaded in this way.

 

There are so many sharks circling this plot waiting to be jumped, I'm beginning to think that OUAT is having a cross-over with Sharknado 3.

Edited by kili
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Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

If Zelena did become Marion in order to make Regina miserable, her new plan is illogical and stupid. It relies on far too many variables beyond her control.

I mean, seriously: "Mwa ha ha, I'll have my revenge on my sister, even if the time portal I opened took me to the wrong time. I'll just impersonate Marian, the wife of Regina's boyfriend. Then Regina will throw me in her dungeon. Emma will get captured by Regina, too, and she'll find a way to escape. Then she'll rescue me while she's at it, but she'll think it's her idea because I'll tell her to go and save herself. Then I'll tell her I want to get back to my family, but she'll insist on taking me back to the future with her in order to save the timeline. And then I'll be safely back in Storybrooke, where I can totally mess with Regina's life without her being any the wiser. And then I'll get my heart frozen by that ice cream lady no one else noticed in town while they were distracted by me, and even when the spell is broken, I'll still be affected, so I'll have to leave town and Robin will have to come with me even though I'd cut him loose to be with Regina because he obviously loves her more than he does his "wife" ... and what was the point of this scheme? I forgot. But I'm sure that every complicated detail will come out exactly the way I planned it."

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

Is that Maleficent?

 

This episode is more and more surprising.  I don't know which way is up, which way is down.  I know these are rehearsals, but does that mean the QoD are reformed for real?  That is the only way Emma and Regina would have left town at all, if those 3 did not represent a danger for Henry, especially.

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

 

Is that Maleficent?

Nope, that's Zelena. At second glance the hair is too blonde. It really is white and gold, after all.

 

 

I know these are rehearsals, but does that mean the QoD are reformed for real?

Her hair being down could mean she's redeemed, believe it or not. If it's not rehearsal, that is.

 

 

That is the only way Emma and Regina would have left town at all, if those 3 did not represent a danger for Henry, especially.

I could picture a redeemed Maleficent. To me she seems like a person who used to be good, got scarred, and now just wants to be alone. She just doesn't seem like she's out to go "mwhahaha" unless she needs to.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Curio

Curio

(edited)

Holy shit, the Marian-is-actually-Zelena crack theory might actually be true?? I honestly didn't think the writers had it in them. Wait, that's a lie, because a bunch of us theorized that would be the case over the summer.

 

Is it sad that I'm more excited about this insane, shark-jumping spoiler than Operation Mongoose and the Queens of Darkness combined? Because I really am excited. It's just so completely ridiculous that I'm totally on board. With The Author plot, it just makes no sense on a philosophical and fundamental level. The Queens of Darkness bore me. But with Zelena's disguise, it's like, wow...I feel like this show is becoming a circus full of fun house mirrors, so I guess I'll just go along for the ride.

 

If Zelena is back, they better do some time travel or alternate universe stuff for the finale. If we're getting all these villains searching for their happy endings without some alternate timeline where they actually achieve that, I'll be disappointed.

Edited by Curio
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sharky

sharky

You know, is it possible that Maleficent is somewhat redeemed because Emma was able to bring Mal's daughter back to her? You know, Lily? Because you know, Lily's disappearance might have something to do with Snowing's secret? Maybe they all agreed to send Emma through the wardrobe instead of Lily. Or they agreed to put both girls into the land without magic to see who would have the best chance of breaking the curse or something. There has to be something else there that makes it logical for Maleficent to be there but not the other evils.

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

You know, is it possible that Maleficent is somewhat redeemed because Emma was able to bring Mal's daughter back to her? You know, Lily? Because you know, Lily's disappearance might have something to do with Snowing's secret? 

 

That is a good theory. Maybe Lily is Mal's daughter by the original Mr. Sleeping Beauty. 

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LizaD

LizaD

 

Nope, that's Zelena. At second glance the hair is too blonde.

So is it Zelena or Mal after all? I thought it was Mal at first glance but it does look like Zelena too.

 

Now all we need is Lily to be Robin/Woegina's kid or Robin/Zelena's kid and we'll have Days of Woegina's Life.

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oliverwendell

oliverwendell

 

You know, is it possible that Maleficent is somewhat redeemed because Emma was able to bring Mal's daughter back to her?

 

Leaving aside whether Lily is Maleficent's daughter, I don't think Maleficent's been redeemed.  Rumple told both Ursula and Cruella to pretend they were redeemed so they could mingle with the townspeople and gather intel.  My guess is he gave the same directive to Maleficent when he revived her.

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