Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[SiobhanJW]

So did Emma realize something was off with Hook after she kissed him since she touched her lips and made a face?

[FabulousTater]

I'm starting to wonder if there will be a new spell or curse on the town leading into the next half season arc because the relaxed and happy scenes with Hook and Emma seem pretty incongruous to what we're seeing now. He's clearly traumatized by what he's being put through, and even if he's saved and Rumple's scheme is stopped, I can't imagine him getting back to relaxed and happy anytime soon.

Ha! I don't disagree that it's incongruous that Hook (or Emma) would be so relaxed and happy in those spoilers, but it's this show. You've seen this show. There are no lasting consequences. None! Emma of all people really should be in therapy, but she just moves along like nothing. She had a small meltdown last episode and the ramifications of all of that were what? Nothing. Emma's over it. Snow is over it (if she was ever under it) and we're back to status quo the episode following the meltdown. Hell, back in S3 Emma saw Regina burn her mother alive and by the end of the same episode she was worried about hurting Regina's feelings, and as of right now still wants to be her best friend despite the fact that 5 days out of 7, Regina still wants to kill her.

 

So what, based on what we've seen on this show ever, would indicate that Hook (or anyone else) would display any lasting consequences to everything that has happened? Nothing. No such reaction has ever happened. Until the plot dictates that a character's thoughts and feelings matter, they don't. The authenticity of the character writing on this show is just like their world-buidling -- It doesn't exist. It's a compliment to call it "crap". The writers are either incompetent, stupid, or just don't care about having authentic character reactions and consequences to what has transpired. This is all just stupid crap that the writers pull out of their butts from episode to episode, and the characters react according to what the plot requires of them. The characters on this show are plot puppets. The only reason they seem to have any depth is because of the actors putting their all into their performances, but the writing is shit and nothing can fix that. Not even great acting.

Edited December 1, 2014 by FabulousTater

[kili]

I also thought it was Ursula that was the "mermaid" that saved Blackbeard, not Ariel and she's also the one that Hook traded his ship too. She's not a mermaid in Disney

 

I believe she is just warped by her dark magic (like Tom Riddle's transformation into Voldemort). She was originally intended to be Triton's sister in the movie, but those mentions were removed. She is his sister in the Disney musical version (i.e. she is Ariel's Aunt0.

 

I do think Ariel is the one that saved Blackbeard (or one of her sisters was watching and helped out).

 

Not to worry, Outlaw Queen fans! Despite the fact that Marian's well-being is a priority, something incredibly swoon-worthy is going to happen in this week's episode while the couple prepares for the Spell of Shattered Sight to finally hit.

 

Did I blink and miss this or was it edited out? I seriously did not see anything swoonworthy  that would remotely require me to have pillows strewn about the room. Was it supposed to be them kissing in front of Roland to announce to the child that his father was cheating on his mother? Or was it when he told Regina he had had Roland locked up with his frozen mother? Or was it when Regina discounted Snow and Emma when she said that Henry and Robin cared about her? Or was it when she warned him wisely to get away from her before the curse hit - because I just found that logical and not romantic.

 

Maybe it is a spoiler for next week?

[YaddaYadda]

The only thing I wondered about when it came to OQ last night is why they had scenes at the end.  Go away Robin!

[Shanna Marie]

So what, based on what we've seen on this show ever, would indicate that Hook (or anyone else) would display any lasting consequences to everything that has happened?

Oh, right. Sorry. Forgot which show I was watching. Yeah, Hook'll be fine about twenty seconds after this plot ends.

[Shanna Marie]

So did Emma realize something was off with Hook after she kissed him since she touched her lips and made a face?

She clearly knows that something's up, but my personal theory is that she realized that he just kissed her in a tearful farewell without doing his usual pep talk about how he'll be fine because he's a survivor and besides, she's bound to be able to fix this because she always does. In every other crisis, he's given her a pep talk and has listed everything she's beaten before (and even a few things where she was just a bystander). This time, he just came by to say goodbye and then left. That's not like him. But I doubt she'll actually do much about it until she doesn't find him at the joyous reunion after the spell breaks.

[YaddaYadda]

Either that or his lunch at Granny's had some serious garlic.

 

Garlic?  Try the fumes from the meth lab.  The fairies are useless.  I can totally see Rumple's point.  So now I'm wondering how they will reverse everything.  If they're breaking Blue free from the hat since we know she's back in 412, that means the Apprentice will be out as well and will take possession of the hat back.

 

Honestly, I don't even think care about any of this because my big shock and even though we did speculate about it when we saw the stills, was the Jolly Roger in possession of Blackbeard.

 

I really can't accept that.  I just can't.  Everytime I think of 409, I'll think about how I hate that Blackbeard has the ship and that despot Hans has Blackbeard in his pocket.  There better be something coming out of this.

 

Also, is anyone getting the feeling S5 might end up being a Pirates of the Caribbean themes type of thing?

[Jean]

 

the dead is dead rule means nothing any more

That rule went out the window long ago, before Snow even.

1. Maleficent is going on 3 times and they can wave away all the "different" forms they want but yeah 3 times

2. Blue Fairy is going on 2 times from that filming for 4x12 tidbit although since we don't know have the hat rules I guess only the ripped soul counts

3. Dead wood August by taser

4. Dead Rumple

5. Dead Anastasia in Wonderland twice!

 

All the anvils guarantees a dead Hook that becomes undead by 4x12. Will might have some of that well water with him. Rumple was filming in NYC. I don't think he'd go out powerless. So did anyone see why Robert would say 4x09 and 4x10 is when he kicks up the evil another notch? He's not given to hyperbole and all he did was mess with the fairies and Hook, that's par for the course for him.

[Alex]

Next episode, "Shattered Sight", press release.

 

“Shattered Sight” – Storybrooke is in a state of chaos with all the residents under the Snow Queen’s Spell of Shattered Sight at each other’s throats. Emma and Elsa race against the clock to free themselves of the ribbons and take down the Snow Queen and her curse. David can only watch when Regina clashes with Mary Margaret in an epic battle. Meanwhile, Gold gathers Belle and Henry as he prepares to leave town forever, and Will Scarlet looks to square his tab with Hook. Kristoff’s thick-headedness leads Anna to a heartwarming discovery, on “Once Upon a Time,” SUNDAY, DECEMBER 7 (8:00-9:00 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.

“Once Upon a Time” stars Ginnifer Goodwin as Snow White/Mary Margaret, Jennifer Morrison as Emma Swan, Lana Parrilla as the Evil Queen/Regina, Josh Dallas as Prince Charming/David Nolan, Emilie de Ravin as Belle, Colin O’Donoghue as Hook, Jared S. Gilmore as Henry, Michael Socha as Will Scarlet and Robert Carlyle as Rumplestiltskin/Mr. Gold.

Guest stars include Lee Arenberg as Leroy/Grumpy, Beverley Elliott as Granny, Georgina Haig as Elsa, Elizabeth Lail as Anna, Scott Michael Foster as Kristoff, David-Paul Grove as Doc, Gabe Khouth as Mr. Clark/Sneezy, Faustino Di Bauda as Walter/Sleepy, Jeffrey Kaiser as Dopey, Michael Coleman as Happy, Mig Macario as Bashful, Rebecca Wisocky as Madame Faustina, Ilias Webb as Kevin, Abby Ross as Young Emma and Elizabeth Mitchell as the Snow Queen.

“Shattered Sight” was written by Scott Nimerfro and Tze Chun, and directed by Gwyneth Horder-Payton.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Alex

[retrograde]

Will Scarlet looks to square his tab with Hook. 

I was wondering when they'd actually pay off Hook punching Will in the face. Seemed an odd thing to include otherwise. 

[Shanna Marie]

I was wondering when they'd actually pay off Hook punching Will in the face. Seemed an odd thing to include otherwise.

Ha, Will will be the one to accidentally end up saving the day by choosing the worst/best possible time to get even, thus thwarting Hook's ability to carry out Rumple's latest orders. Rumple can order Hook to fight back so he can get back to his evil mission, but he can't control whether or not Will wins because he doesn't control Will, and while Hook may be slightly taller and have more reach (actually, I'm not sure, I don't remember how they stacked up side-by-side), Will probably has more mass and a stronger will to live (at the moment). Hook being out for the count (Captain Floor!) might delay Rumple's plans just enough for them to be ruined.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Rebecca Wisocky as Madame Faustina, Ilias Webb as Kevin, Abby Ross as Young Emma and Elizabeth Mitchell as the Snow Queen.

 

I'm glad we're finally getting the Ingrid/Emma flashback, but I feel like they've waited too long for it. It doesn't exactly fit into the "Storybrooke chaos" pacing. They're going to be going over a long period of time in just a short episode, and I don't think it'll do the relationship dynamic justice. I'm fairly pessimistic about how they'll handle Emma's past, simply because of their lack of interest in writing it.

 

I wish the Shattered Sight and Emma/Ingrid stuff could have been in more than one episode. There is a lot of story to mine in both areas. I can imagine next week's episode is going to be rushed, rushed, rushed much like 4x09. It's extremely easy to botch up.

Edited December 1, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[HoodlumSheep]

I wonder if will (even in Shattered Sight mode) will recognize Killy's got no heart due to his own previous heartless situation. Also, Will returning a punch makes me think of his and Cyrus' scene in ouatiw, when Cyrus mentions about having to carry a knocked-out Will around if he took up Will's offer of returning a punch.

If Killy gets a hold of Henry, maybe he'll notice something's off too. After the spell has been broken of course. Does this mean David isn't affected even though he got shards in his eyes?

[YaddaYadda]

I know it's the shattered sight whatever...but if Hook is not affected by the curse (I mean he's probably at Regina's office which she magically sealed on Rumple's orders.  Does the heart control trump the curse?  Or is he simply not cursed?)

 

If Hook isn't cursed, I don't see him fighting back.

[retrograde]

I'm glad we're finally getting the Ingrid/Emma flashback, but I feel like they've waited too long for it. It doesn't exactly fit into the "Storybrooke chaos" pacing. 

I agree the timing is weird (both where the story is at, and in this particular episode) so I have to assume that something from the flashback holds the answer to defeating the DQ in the present -- or at least ditching the ribbons.

[Serena]

So Robin isn't in the episode. Because of course, if he were he'd nothing how "bold and audacious" Regina truly is.

[YaddaYadda]

So Robin isn't in the episode. Because of course, if he were he'd nothing how "bold and audacious" Regina truly is.

 

Cause he believes in her and all.  I can't deal with that drivel.

[Souris]

I'm rather concerned about the writers for this ep: One of them has only one co-write (the godawfully offensive 4x05), and it's the first ep for the other. So the newbies are responsible for the denouement of the season's big curse? Seems like a recipe for crap to me.

[Curio]

I was wondering when they'd actually pay off Hook punching Will in the face. Seemed an odd thing to include otherwise.

I'm surprised they decided to follow up on it at all. Knowing our luck with these writers though, we finally get some karmic pay back for Hook punching Will, but Hook's phones messages on Emma's phone will probably never see the light of day.

 

If Hook isn't cursed, I don't see him fighting back.

Yeah. As much as they've been making Hook a giant punching bag this season with all the crap hands they've dealt him, I think I'd prefer to see an un-cursed Hook battle a cursed Will. If they're both cursed, then it'd just be two guys brutally fighting it out. If one of them isn't cursed, there's a bit more tension there with Hook knowing he probably deserves the beat down, but he still has orders to do whatever Rumple needs him to do.

 

Heck, Rumple might pull up a chair and some popcorn to watch their fight. "No Dearie, the hat plans can wait 5 minutes. Why don't you and Will take a moment to hash things out."

Edited December 1, 2014 by Curio

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'm rather concerned about the writers for this ep: One of them has only one co-write (the godawfully offensive 4x05), and it's the first ep for the other. So the newbies are responsible for the denouement of the season's big curse? Seems like a recipe for crap to me.

Ew... just ew. I feel like these new writers are going to have a tilted view on what the "evil" versions of the characters are. Sure you can throw Regina into an Evil Queen outfit, but that isn't rocket science. My bet is that she'll totally dominate it and finally get "payback" from those evil Charmings for "ruining her life". (Emma included.) It'll be played like a triumph. Everyone else will just say snippy things and dodge fireballs while they wait for Emma and Elsa to take off their Easter ribbons.

 

Madame Faustina mildly intrigues me. My guess is that Ingrid goes for magical advice or answers about her prophecy in the Land Without Magic.

Edited December 1, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[retrograde]

It's not as if the individual episode writers just write whatever they want and then hand the scripts out to the actors. I'm sure Adam and Eddy and the other writers had plenty of input.

Edited December 1, 2014 by retrograde

[Emma]

I'm sure Adam and Eddy have a blueprint for the writers to work with but how sad Emma themed episodes this season are being handed to newbies.

[Jean]

 

My bet is that she'll totally dominate it and finally get "payback" from those evil Charmings for "ruining her life". (Emma included.) It'll be played like a triumph.

This will be different from the old crew how? Hey the newbie is giving us a scene where Snow throws Woegina through a door so I'll take it even if she pays through the nose for it afterwards with Dark Spot part 2. And since Charming now shares a heart with her, he'll get the honor of joining in on the groveling.

 

 

I'm fairly pessimistic about how they'll handle Emma's past, simply because of their lack of interest in writing it.

Yeah that's a no brainer. Disney and ratings can't even make them focus on the Frozen story so forget about Emma. I think how they ditch the yellow ribbons is in the past since you don't see Elsa with it in the reunion snow scene but Ingrid isn't defeated. EM was still filming for 4x11. The actress who played Lily isn't listed but her dad is? Is that a mistake? I think beyond Ingrid/Emma story, which doesn't matter, that Lily is also a nugget for 4B.

[KingOfHearts]

 

This will be different from the old crew how? Hey the newbie is giving us a scene where Snow throws Woegina through a door so I'll take it even if she pays through the nose for it afterwards with Dark Spot part 2. And since Charming now shares a heart with her, he'll get the honor of joining in on the groveling.

Who said it'd be different? ;) It's not like the normal writers are any better, but I'm just saying since Regina is the star of the show, its "safe" for this writer to keep her in the spotlight. I expect a very heavy apology from Snow afterwards, so at the end of the day its not even worth it to me. It's to make "even Snow White" look "evil".

 

 

I think I read that she will be a charlatan.

Totally expect that, but Ingrid will probably believe her... at least at first.

Edited December 1, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[retrograde]

The actress who played Lily isn't listed but her dad is? Is that a mistake?

I think has to be unless she was cut -- I'm fairly positive the actress tweeted about filming this ep.

Edited December 1, 2014 by retrograde

[Mari]

I think has to be unless she was cut -- I'm fairly positive the actress tweeted about filming this ep.

I'm not sure on how the listing thing works.  Is it possible that she doesn't have lines?  Would she be listed if she doesn't have lines, but is simply sulking, frolicking, or eviling in the background?

[Serena]

I'm pretty sure they're listed even if they get cut. Regina's father was credited for 311 and he was cut. Actually, I must be blind, but... I don't see Lily's father credited? "Kevin" is the kid who stole Emma's camera. Who else is there?

[scenicbyway]

So Will's biggest enemy in town is Hook? Eh.

 

In Hook's last scene in "Fall" (where he's at the docks with the turned over trash cans??) I noticed what looks like his pirate coat directly behind him.  Interestingly, in the promo, he's still in his modern wear when he goes to the Mayor's office.  I think a "cursed" Hook would've changed clothes.  Perhaps he's immune without his heart, perhaps he thinks he's already his worst self, remember, he stood in front of the mirror just like Belle did and nothing happened.

 

I don't think Henry sets the marble trap for Hook per se, but for anyone trying to come into the office, it just happens to be Hook.

 

It's also strange that this is a Robin free episode.  The writers must really not want him to know who she really is. 

 

I wonder if the spell will actually be broken by the end of the episode.  No doubt the "heartwarming" thing that Anna finds is the message in a bottle from her mother.  I guess Kristoff thinks he can paddle his way back to Arendelle in the trunk so they end up finding the bottle?

[Rumsy4]

It's not like I want to see Robin on the screen, but seriously, he's not even going to see Regina being all Evil Queen? Why do the writers want to retread old ground of Snow vs Regina? So Robin is not only not allowed to acknowledge all the evil Regina has done (even to his wife, himself, and his son), but he is not even allowed to witness spell-induced regression? That absolutely dishonest writing. I really hope that was just an oversight, but who knows?

 

Btw, the "mirror" Hook was looking into was fake. I don't think Hook will be affected by the spell, though. Probably because he is currently heartless.

[Mathius]

Um, that's not Lily's father who's listed, it's Kevin the bully boy from the video of Emma in Ingrid's foster home. I definitely agree that Lily is gonna be a big 4B character.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Mathius

[Souris]

A filming pic of foster-mom DQ and young Emma from the next ep.

[sharky]

Actually, I think the black thing behind Hook is a net and it's laying on top of lobster traps. The thing I noticed though was that he didn't seem to have his hand chained down somewhere. So unlike Snowing or Belle, he isn't really locked up somewhere. Seems like it would be an odd thing to miss for continuity -- unless it makes it easier to respond to whatever after the spell comes down.

[scenicbyway]

I have a hard time believing that the message in a bottle will be the way to defeat DQ.  As far as she knew, DQ was forever in the urn.  It's also unlikely that she would just happen to write to her daughters about the shattered sight spell.  It's more likely about the wishing star or that they decided they didn't want to take Elsa's powers away because they lover her just as she was/is.

Actually, I think the black thing behind Hook is a net and it's laying on top of lobster traps. The thing I noticed though was that he didn't seem to have his hand chained down somewhere. So unlike Snowing or Belle, he isn't really locked up somewhere. Seems like it would be an odd thing to miss for continuity -- unless it makes it easier to respond to whatever after the spell comes down.

He probably figured it's pointless to chain himself down if Rumple's just going to crush his heart anyway.  Rumple could easily free him if he needed too.

[Souris]

JMo posted a pic from the mayor's office of A&E directing.

[Serena]

Is it Eddy directing too? Why did the script say only Adam? Are they slowly becoming one entity?

[retrograde]

Promo photos are out http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/12/once-upon-time-episode-410-shattered_2.html?m=1

Glad to see Anna is part of the action, if only because I enjoy her out-of-place commentary on Storybrooke.

[Souris]

The snow falling on Emma, Elsa & Anna in the one BTS photo calls to mind the snow falling during the reunion. So it starts while they're confronting DQ. Perhaps the snow is an analogue to Gerda's tears in the Snow Queen tale and washes out the glass shards.

 

If Anna doesn't have the baby, WHERE'S THE BABY? Do Snowing somehow overcome the spell and suddenly become fit to watch the baby? Or did Rumple's deal with DQ actually make Babysitter Belle immune to the spell? If she, say, found Emma's phone in the shop and listened to the voicemail, maybe she would venture out.

[InsertWordHere]

I don't know where the baby is, but I don't want Regina anywhere near Prince Snowflake!

[YaddaYadda]

So DQ has some kind of a scroll in her hands which then Anna seems to have and I also noticed that Emma and Elsa are no longer wearing their ribbons. 

 

DQ also has rocks in her hands which I'm assuming are Elsa and Emma's trapped memories.

 

Also, I don't care about the baby though I thought him sucking on his thumb was very precious, but his name is Neal, so yeah.

Edited December 2, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[Jean]

I think that's after the curse breaking or right before the curse breaks? Elsa doesn't have the yellow ribbon anymore so I'm assuming Emma doesn't either. But yeah for E&E/Anna teamwork against Ingrid. And did Ingrid turn into Morpheus? That picture of her holding out something in both hands with her barefeet on the recliner crack me up for some reason. What is she holding? You can see Ingrid holding some white parchment in another still? I bet that's the message in the bottle from Gerda and there's probably a part in there that says "I love Ingrid and regret urning her." End story.

 

 

Kevin the bully boy from the video of Emma in Ingrid's foster home

My bad! I couldn't remember any other random male character from 4x05 flashbacks so that shows you how much I paid attention to that episode. That picture of young Emma and Ingrid holding hands looks sweet

Edited December 2, 2014 by Jean

[RadioGirl27]

I think in one of the pics the DQ has two memory rocks, to make Elsa and Emma remember.

[Rumsy4]

From one of the bts pictures, someone on tumblr had the hypothesis that Ingrid literally explodes into snowflakes. That could well be it?! haha I think Anna, Elsa, and Emma become the three sisters, and defeat Ingrid. Their bond might prove more powerful than mere ribbons.

 

If Emma and Elsa get their memories back, that will be one loose end tied up! 

Edited December 2, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Souris]

From one of the bts pictures, someone on tumblr had the hypothesis that Ingrid literally explodes into snowflakes. That could well be it?! haha I think Anna, Elsa, and Emma become the three sisters, and defeat Ingrid. Their bond might prove more powerful than mere ribbons.

 

I posted the DQ poofs into snowflakes a few days ago here about the reunion snow, mainly as a joke. Or kind of joking on the square. It could happen!

[Souris]

Looks like they will be filming in Steveston soon. Emma's bug parked and ready. Maybe Tuesday?

[regularlyleaded]

Also, I don't care about the baby though I thought him sucking on his thumb was very precious, but his name is Neal, so yeah.

I'm laughing so hard at this right now. Thank you for that, Yadda Yadda. Also, ITA.

 

I kind of wish the baby would just disappear like Connor from Angel and come back grown up (or not at all, I prefer he not come back at all) and not just grown up but quite elderly, like 86 years old. That would be so awesome. This show is ridiculous I don't see why they can't do it. Just imagining this scenario makes me laugh.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I kind of wish the baby would just disappear like Connor from Angel and come back grown up (or not at all, I prefer he not come back at all) and not just grown up but quite elderly, like 86 years old. That would be so awesome. This show is ridiculous I don't see why they can't do it. Just imagining this scenario makes me laugh.

I think you just uncovered the identity of the Sorcerer! ;)

 

(But seriously, I'd love for that to happen to Henry.)

Edited December 2, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Writing Wrongs]

Why is Regina licking the sword? Ew.

[The Cake is a Pie]

I'm laughing so hard at this right now. Thank you for that, Yadda Yadda. Also, ITA.

I kind of wish the baby would just disappear like Connor from Angel and come back grown up (or not at all, I prefer he not come back at all) and not just grown up but quite elderly, like 86 years old. That would be so awesome. This show is ridiculous I don't see why they can't do it. Just imagining this scenario makes me laugh.

Maybe someone can cast a reverse curse to mirror (HA) the first one and baby Neal has to be sent back to the Enchanted Forest to give him his Best Chance? Oooh, and Robin and Marian are the ones who have to take him and raise him. BAM, two problems solved in one.

Since we know DQ's spell gets broken, we'll need some other spell to curse the town at the end of the season. Because there is nothing the writers like better than plot resetting curses.

[Souris]

BTS fan pics from the next ep.

[InsertWordHere]

This is when Elsa and Emma "prank" Regina and run away then? Awesome! They look so cute and giggly.