Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Camera One]

From the EW interview

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KITSIS: And I think for us, personally, we wanted to be able to end the show the way we wanted to with all the actors that we started with in the pilot. We didn’t want to just be like, “Oh, well, these people are sent off to an island and we’re still in Storybrooke.” 

Yeah, it's "these people are sent off to an island and we're now in Hyperion Heights".   What a difference.

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 We’re in a new book with a new land, so we’ll be telling new origin stories as well as Henry’s epic adventure.

Riding a motorcycle right into a horse and carriage is soooooooooo epic.

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The flashbacks we saw in the Enchanted Forest in the finale, was that our Enchanted Forest?
KITSIS: No.

Could've fooled me.  

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We’re in a city now, and it’s more densely populated, and it’s filled with both fairy tale characters and non-fairy tale characters, and that’s another interaction and vibe that we didn’t really have in Storybrooke, where it was all the cursed people. 

This is one of the few things that does intrigue me a little.

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KITSIS: We’re going to enter a season much more like we did with the second part of season 3 where we’re not going to actually know who cast the curse and why, and that will be one of the mysteries. 

You did it in 5A too.  The originality is staggering, guys.

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Is this the type of curse that can be broken by true love’s kiss, or will heroes have to figure out something else?
KITSIS: You’re assuming that we break the curse this year, which we may or may not, and you’re assuming that the heroes didn’t cast it, which we don’t know also. So I would say that hopefully who cast the curse and what’s going on and what the end goals are is an intriguing mystery for the audience to watch this season.

Every time it has been a "surprise", a hero has cast it.  

Edited September 27, 2017 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

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We’re in a city now, and it’s more densely populated, and it’s filled with both fairy tale characters and non-fairy tale characters, and that’s another interaction and vibe that we didn’t really have in Storybrooke, where it was all the cursed people. 

The only way this would be interesting to me is if we as the audience weren't aware of who is a fairy tale character and who isn't. A lot of the fun of S1 was figuring out who was who and/or seeing Emma help them find their real selves and overcome their cursed personalities. It would be fun to try to figure that kind of thing out and they could pull some creative twists or surprises out of that. Otherwise, it's just the writers talking about how different it is that real world people are around with nothing beyond a very surface level to actually show that.  If everyone's cursed to have real world lives and problems, there is zero difference between the real world people and the fairy tale people.

Edited September 27, 2017 by KAOS Agent

[Camera One]

From Page 2 of the interview

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KITSIS: At the same respect, all the experiences she’s had going from Evil Queen to Queen [have led to] a mature character. Roni is kind of the Regina who has all those life experiences and maturity and the wisdom that comes with it.

From Evil Queen to Queen?  Why the hell is she still queen?

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What about for Rumple? We don’t know much about his character.
KITSIS: Well, that’s how he likes it.

Does he have a name?
KITSIS:  The name will be revealed in the premiere.

Do they seriously think it's *that* good they can't tease about it?

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KITSIS: Absolutely. We warned you season 1 he was a difficult man to love, but at the same time, he did find true love last year and choose love over power, so we don’t know what we’ll be looking at. I would hope that the growth and everything he fought for wouldn’t be erased. But as we know, that’s the day-to-day fight.

What show is he watching?  When did Rumple choose "love over power" last year?  What "growth" and "everything he fought for"?

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Is Gold still the Dark One?
KITSIS: That is exactly who he is. As we know, you can’t get rid of the dagger. How do you get rid of the dagger?

Everything is reset and new... except this.

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What can you tease of Emma’s return?
HOROWITZ: I would say the red jacket is back. 

That's all it's basically going to amount to.

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At the center of the first six seasons was obviously a Savior. We look at Henry as the new hero. Is he a Savior or are you leaning more into just how somebody steps up as a hero?

HOROWITZ: I would say this: The savior and the savior mythology, that was the first six seasons. That was the story we really explored there. We’re telling a new story here, and yeah, Henry and Cinderella are at the center of it, as well as Hook and Rumple and Regina.
KITSIS: I would say that in the first one, Emma needed to come back and break the curse, but what we realized toward the end is it takes a village

For something they "explored", I still don't know what a Savior is.  LOL, the whole realization is "it takes a village"?  Including the actual person who cast the Curse and the person who pushed that person to cast the Curse.

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KITSIS... and I think that here we are starting with it takes a village approach, but if I was looking toward leadership, I would look for somebody who was both a mayor and a queen.

Surprise surprise surprise surprise surprise.

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Are we in one new book or multiple?
KITSIS: We have the freedom to go through multiple books.

You mentioned another author, so are there multiple authors then?
KITSIS: I think so. I think there is. There has to be one author for each book. I think that is the case.

Answers like this really makes me think they just make stuff up with little to no planning.  With all the "I think that's the case", etc.

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You initially had a six-year plan. Do you have a certain year plan for this time around?
KITSIS: Six months.
HOROWITZ: Let me put it this way: When we started Once Upon a Time, we had about a six-hour plan, which was it would air and then within six hours we’d get ratings and would know.
HOROWITZ: We’re only sort of half kidding. Like when we created the show we, of course, presented the network with big ideas and big long-term plans. So now, in the same respect, with this new iteration of the show, we do have big ideas and big long-term plans, but we wouldn’t presume to say that we can enact on it. It’s up to the audience.

Not surprising.  We should start to see the stories unravel after 6 months.

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Do you feel like you could wrap this story up to completion should the show not get renewed this year?
KITSIS: Yeah.
HOROWITZ: Yeah, I think we could, but I also think it’s like anything else where we’re hoping we’re starting a new chapter.
KITSIS: We would be bad showrunners if we didn’t plan for that, or didn’t have that in our head. So if this is the last year, then we won’t leave people hanging, and if it’s not, then we’ll keep coming up with the craziness.

Would be?

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KITSIS: You can absolutely watch episode 1 and not miss a beat, because it really is like a pilot in that we explain the situation in the world and what’s going on. But if you have watched for six years, then the opening scene of Regina saying goodbye to Henry will mean much more.

I watched for six years and it didn't mean anything.

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There are kids that were maybe too young who now are older and can start Once Upon a Time, and people who feel like “Oh, well, I didn’t want to catch up on six seasons,” they can jump in.

Yeah, I'm sure there are one or two of those people... across the entire continent.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Camera One

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 9/25/2017 at 2:32 PM, KingOfHearts said:

=I've also heard this Alice is not from Wonderland, or something like that.

It said she doesn't like to be "pigeon-holed" as being "from Wonderland". Which could mean a variety of things.

10 hours ago, Serena said:

Well, Alice and Adelaide Kane (sorry, forgot her name) look the best. Does that mean Adelaide will be a regular since she's getting a photo?

Drizella. Like in the Disney movie.

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

What show is he watching?  When did Rumple choose "love over power" last year?  What "growth" and "everything he fought for"?

When he chose Belle and Gideon over the Black Fairy, who would have made him all-powerful. In this at least they are correct.

[Colette]

5 hours ago, Camera One said:

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KITSIS... and I think that here we are starting with it takes a village approach, but if I was looking toward leadership, I would look for somebody who was both a mayor and a queen.

Surprise surprise surprise surprise surprise.

I guess they "forgot" that Snow was both a queen and a mayor too.

5 hours ago, Camera One said:

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KITSIS: Absolutely. We warned you season 1 he was a difficult man to love, but at the same time, he did find true love last year and choose love over power, so we don’t know what we’ll be looking at. I would hope that the growth and everything he fought for wouldn’t be erased. But as we know, that’s the day-to-day fight.

 

Can it really be called a day-to-day fight when he isn't even trying to be good? He only cared about Belle and Gideon in the finale and was ready to let everyone die. He was accepted as part of the Charming family far too easily.

5 hours ago, Camera One said:

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Is Gold still the Dark One?
KITSIS: That is exactly who he is. As we know, you can’t get rid of the dagger. How do you get rid of the dagger?

 

But you can get rid of the dagger. Emma and Hook would have done it if it wasn't for Rumple.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Colette

[CCTC]

3 hours ago, Colette said:

Can it really be called a day-to-day fight when he isn't even trying to be good? He only cared about Belle and Gideon in the finale and was ready to let everyone die. He was accepted as part of the Charming family far too easily.

Yes - even his sacrifice in the finale was pretty empty.  It is not like he even gave up his existing power, he is still the Dark One (and really he got off pretty easy for deceptively all the Dark Ones).  No one, especially Belle, should have been on good terms with him at the end of the finale.  It is also a shame with all of the regulars leaving, that he was the one who "saved" the day in yet another retread of his same old story.  He is probably the one character I would not have brought back.  No one's story has run its course more than him.

This is more of speculation on my part, but I also feel like no other actor was as bored by his part than him.  It is not like he doing bad acting now, but there is more of a feel he is going through the motions now.  He might be doing it in an efficient manner, but a certain spark is gone.  I guess I would maybe throw Ginny as here as well.  Although it is harder to tell with her because they gave her less to work with.  Josh was given meatier scenes than she was last year.  They might not have wanted her back, but I think she was more than ready to depart.  I am guessing Robert also is ready to leave the role, but the money or steady work or staying in Vancouver for the family was too good to turn down.

[Camera One]

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When he chose Belle and Gideon over the Black Fairy, who would have made him all-powerful. In this at least they are correct.

That isn't growth to me.  Rumple has always only cared about Belle and sometimes his son.  He didn't have to give up any of his current powers, which is already pretty much "all powerful".  The reason he killed the Black Fairy wasn't because he was choosing "love over power".  He killed her because he was mad she separated him from Belle.  He also didn't "fight" for it at all.  

[Mitch]

3 hours ago, CCTC said:

Yes - even his sacrifice in the finale was pretty empty.  It is not like he even gave up his existing power, he is still the Dark One (and really he got off pretty easy for deceptively all the Dark Ones).  No one, especially Belle, should have been on good terms with him at the end of the finale.  It is also a shame with all of the regulars leaving, that he was the one who "saved" the day in yet another retread of his same old story.  He is probably the one character I would not have brought back.  No one's story has run its course more than him.

This is more of speculation on my part, but I also feel like no other actor was as bored by his part than him.  It is not like he doing bad acting now, but there is more of a feel he is going through the motions now.  He might be doing it in an efficient manner, but a certain spark is gone.  I guess I would maybe throw Ginny as here as well.  Although it is harder to tell with her because they gave her less to work with.  Josh was given meatier scenes than she was last year.  They might not have wanted her back, but I think she was more than ready to depart.  I am guessing Robert also is ready to leave the role, but the money or steady work or staying in Vancouver for the family was too good to turn down.

Yea, they see Rump as a mysterious villain and the audience sees him as just being a d*ck (and God love the actor, he unlike LP, never "acts" as if his character is anything but a villain..)  Rump could be an interesting character if in the finale they had him loose all his magic power..that would have been a sacrifice for Rump. And it would have made him more interesting in this new version if he has no power, and had to go back to being Mr. Gold and manipulate and control people without it. Having a villain who can NEVER be overpowered isn't interesting.  And it can't be interesting for the actor to pay but I don't blame him, I would ride the gravy train for all its worth.

I am thinking this whole "Hyperion Heights" thing would have worked better if they had used it for a plot twist earlier in the run of the show. SB lost all its potential as it was cut off from the rest of the world so what was the point. This could have happened in  S3 and Zelena. The whole..."Oh Snow and Charm" cast the curse surprise was stupid and it was even dumber that SB was recreated down to the exact towels in Regina's kitchen and the prints on her wall..and somehow it brought magic back to the LWOM??? Or just toss out the EQ part last year, and they could have them bring the BF back, the Emma Hook wedding mid season and then the BF casts the curse and they are brought to Hyperion Heights..(why wouldn't the super evil BF make Henry have a cursed identity?? Why leave him awake and with that stupid book?)

[KingOfHearts]

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This could have happened in  S3 and Zelena.

3B would have been infinitely more interesting if the location was different and the characters had new, false personalities. 

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 Rump could be an interesting character if in the finale they had him loose all his magic power..that would have been a sacrifice for Rump. And it would have made him more interesting in this new version if he has no power, and had to go back to being Mr. Gold and manipulate and control people without it. Having a villain who can NEVER be overpowered isn't interesting.  

Rumple did lose all of his power in 5A, but it only lasted about five minutes.

[Shanna Marie]

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I would hope that the growth and everything he fought for wouldn’t be erased.

You mean, like every single time he found true love and chose love over power and then immediately backslid and went even more evil? There'd be a lot more suspense if they hadn't repeated themselves so often and hadn't made it clear that they don't think good Rumple is at all interesting. It would be a bigger shock if he was good instead of shady, but we know that's not going to happen.

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if I was looking toward leadership, I would look for somebody who was both a mayor and a queen.

Who was a queen by marriage who then took the throne by murder and who was a mayor without ever being elected, strictly due to a curse. Nothing says "leadership" like "dictatorship." I think if I were looking for leadership, I'd look to the guy who as not much more than a kid and while still an enslaved deckhand was able to rally a ship full of men into following his lead to get the ship safely through a treacherous area and mutiny behind his brother (too bad his brother was a jerk) and who later was able to get an entire navy ship to desert the military and join him in a one-ship war against their king. Leadership is when other people choose to follow, not seizing power and forcing people to follow you.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

4 hours ago, Camera One said:

That isn't growth to me.  Rumple has always only cared about Belle and sometimes his son.  He didn't have to give up any of his current powers, which is already pretty much "all powerful".  The reason he killed the Black Fairy wasn't because he was choosing "love over power".  He killed her because he was mad she separated him from Belle.  He also didn't "fight" for it at all.  

But someone like Rumple always wants more power. Both the Black Fairy and his hallucinatory Dark One alter ego tempted him with letting Emma lose the Final Battle so that he'd have power outside of Storybrooke, and with altering Belle and Gideon's minds so they'd stay with him anyway, and he refused. Normally Rumple would have succumbed to temptation, thinking he could get away with subverting Belle and Gideon's wishes, like he did in Season 4A. Although his attempt to stop Gideon was in vain anyway, and led to Henry's speech about "when Good and Evil both did the right thing", which was so sappy-sounding that it made me want to puke. I agree he didn't fight for it, and there was little reason why he suddenly came to his senses this time as opposed to the dozens of other opportunities he's had.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Noneofyourbusiness]

3 hours ago, Mitch said:

Rump could be an interesting character if in the finale they had him loose all his magic power..that would have been a sacrifice for Rump. And it would have made him more interesting in this new version if he has no power, and had to go back to being Mr. Gold and manipulate and control people without it. Having a villain who can NEVER be overpowered isn't interesting. 

Well, at least in Hyperion Heights there's no magic so that's pretty much how he'll have to be there.

3 hours ago, Mitch said:

.(why wouldn't the super evil BF make Henry have a cursed identity?? Why leave him awake and with that stupid book?)

To use his belief against Emma so she'd surrender, I guess. Not that it worked. In fact, he was the only one pushing Emma not to give in, so that doesn't make sense, but what else is new.

[rogvortex58]

Villains lose because they’re stupid.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

So in the new video interview compilation, A&E says everyone knows that no matter how dark our stories get, there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

Unless you're Milah or Auntie Em, apparently. I can't believe they never did something to resolve that.

[KAOS Agent]

Apparently, seeing the creepy souls leaving the river to attack Hook and Arthur when they tried to retrieve the book meant good things for Milah and Auntie Em. We watch a totally different show than the showrunners think they are writing. Edmond Dantes and Snowing's maid, whom he gave up his revenge to save, really show the meaning of happy endings when you act heroically. I can totally see the light at the end of the tunnel for those two.

It's the delusions of the writers in comments like this that leave me with no desire to watch S7.  The show is an endless demonstration that evil acts will never receive justice and good people will suffer massively for doing the right thing. They've already said Lady Tremaine has a sad, sad story. They assume that we'll soon understand why it's totally justified for her to screw over a ton of people. 

[rogvortex58]

BtW. there’s a recap of the premiere on tumblr.

http://niizoca.tumblr.com/post/165800271427/spoilersscreener-701

spoilers, obviously

[Mitch]

Plus she fought him the whole time, even shoving him down the stairs...(which, besides Zelena running her over with her car, is the one scene that made last year's crap worthwhile!) it would have been in her power and made it easier for her if she gave him a cursed personality..or locked him up in Sydney's cell.  Or it would have worked if she went with Henry to see Emma in her nuthouse...."Go ahead dear, tell Emma all the things you think are true!" And then the moron spouts off about Heroes and Hope ...Emma "Wait a minute..aren't you about 14 or 15?" Fiona..."Exactly dear, your psychosis has had a negative effect on the poor boy...he is 14 but acts like he is 8, and well, I wont even mention his generally annoying personality...but don't you worry, some shock treatments personally administered with me in the room, may just wake him up!"

"Unless you're Milah or Auntie Em, apparently. I can't believe they never did something to resolve that."  There is a creepy underlying misogyny in the writing of this show, that has just gotten more apparent as the years went by. Milah is punished because she had the audacity to leave Rumpie for a hot younger guy...but Rump kills thousands and gets a hot younger girl, with nothing said.  Glinda is trapped in some Snow Cave...somewhere, Auntie Em is either a floating soul or some cadaverous thing...two iconic characters punished that yea, happen to be female.  The last episode, Blue is gone, Snow is her usual helpless self, Regina and Zelena just sit around clutching their pearls, and Emma really has to be passively let a male "spear her" to even win..not by fighting mind you, but just dying. Meanwhile.Rump who treats women like crap, wins the day. Weird.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

12 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

Apparently, seeing the creepy souls leaving the river to attack Hook and Arthur when they tried to retrieve the book meant good things for Milah and Auntie Em.

Where did they say that?

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I haven't checked in awhile.  I did about a month ago and found a post from a month before that (can't find it now) that basically said what I'm still feeling: not getting very excited about any of the spoilers coming out about S7.  Thoughts on the promo pics:

On 9/20/2017 at 0:32 PM, KingOfHearts said:

Yet... I really don't care about any of these new characters, or adult Henry for that matter. I'd rather have versions we've already seen on the show any day of the week.

Adult Henry looks better in modern clothing than he does in his Enchanted Forest getup.  He looks too constipated in the leather Prince Charming outfit.

The new Cinderella is not doing it for me.

Alice looks like she might be interesting.

The Family portrait was just bleh...

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From: https://writesoftheroundtable.com/2017/09/22/advance-review-once-upon-a-time-season-7-premiere-a-new-story/amp/

Last, but definitely not least Roni is absolutely a delight. She ends up giving the hope speech at one point. I was kind of hoping that she would let her Brooklyn accent out but, alas, she still sounds very much like Regina.

Great.  So Regina gets to be the new Emma and the new Snow.  Yippee.

16 minutes ago, Mitch said:

"Unless you're Milah or Auntie Em, apparently. I can't believe they never did something to resolve that."  There is a creepy underlying misogyny in the writing of this show, that has just gotten more apparent as the years went by. Milah is punished because she had the audacity to leave Rumpie for a hot younger guy...but Rump kills thousands and gets a hot younger girl, with nothing said.  Glinda is trapped in some Snow Cave...somewhere, Auntie Em is either a floating soul or some cadaverous thing...two iconic characters punished that yea, happen to be female.  The last episode, Blue is gone, Snow is her usual helpless self, Regina and Zelena just sit around clutching their pearls, and Emma really has to be passively let a male "spear her" to even win..not by fighting mind you, but just dying. Meanwhile.Rump who treats women like crap, wins the day. Weird.

Oh, but the show's history of having bad-ass women is intact for S7!

[CCTC]

32 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Great.  So Regina gets to be the new Emma and the new Snow.  Yippee.

I like Lana and have liked Regina, but they have done the character no favors by turning her into a straight out hero.  She is much less interesting than she was at the start of the show.  Not that with their writing, I would want her still waffling between good and evil.  This show has a hard time doing gray characters - because by their version of gray is simply have them do something bad and then redeem them and rinse and repeat.  They don't do subtly or nuance that makes a true gray character.

[Rumsy4]

7 hours ago, rogvortex58 said:

BtW. there’s a recap of the premiere on tumblr.

http://niizoca.tumblr.com/post/165800271427/spoilersscreener-701

spoilers, obviously

Not surprised Rumple's still a thug in his new iteration. I wouldn't be surprised if he willingly cursed himself just like the first curse, and is also responsible for Hook being present. It will all probably so that he can be reunited with Belle and Gideon, who likely rejected him again.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Rumsy4

[sharky]

OK, so I've finally watched the screener. First, it was good but underwhelming. I think it would've been better if I went into it thinking of it as a pilot and not a continuation. There's alot of new characters to set up in the beginning. The whole Cinderella story, Henry's daughter, the frog princess, and Alice. I have no idea why some of them are in there yet and feel like this is typical A&E -- tossing alot of characters out there and ending up under utilizing half of them.

As for the returning characters, Rogers reminds me of Deckhand Hook -- timid good guy with some ambition. Not sure what's going on with his hand though. He has a black glove on the whole time, but he does move it so it's not like the faux hand attachment for his hook. And every good cop needs a bad cop, which is what Rumple is. Meh. Roni didn't bother me all that much. Probably because all three of the returning characters didn't really have much that reminded me of who they were in Storybrooke. Honestly, if you could be a newbie starting this series with this episode and no back story, you wouldn't have to worry about missing something. It's great for new fans but missing something for the rest of us.

Like I said, it was good, but it's definitely a new show. The real world feels more real than fairy tale, the characters seem more real than fairy tale, everything is just more real and less fantasy and I'm not sure how I feel about that. It could definitely grow on me, but I need to go back and watch the screener with a different mindset about what I should be expecting.

[Kktjones]

1 hour ago, sharky said:

OK, so I've finally watched the screener.

everything is just more real and less fantasy

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the premiere. Very little about the whole "real world" premise actually interests me, and since I was pretty much just hanging on for CaptainSwan at the end, I'm not sure I'll make it past the first couple eps.

1 hour ago, sharky said:

Not sure what's going on with his hand though. He has a black glove on the whole time, but he does move it so it's not like the faux hand attachment for his hook.

This is somewhat intriguing because Colin mentioned in a couple different interviews that he doesn't have the hook, but has a prosthetic in Seattle. So I wonder if it's some sort of robotic hand or if he just forgot and moved it by accident :). Are they setting up Rogers and Rumple to work together?

I guess the only other question I have is what you thought of the chemistry between some of the characters - like Henry/Cinderella, Henry/Rogers, etc. That's probably the only thing that could keep me interested.

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, sharky said:

The real world feels more real than fairy tale, the characters seem more real than fairy tale, everything is just more real and less fantasy and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

That's the part that has me feeling iffy. I'm here for the fairy tales. One thing I loved about season one was the way Storybrooke felt like a fairy tale place, even though it was in the "real" world. It is certainly possible for a modern city to feel like a fairy tale setting -- just look at all the urban fantasy out there. They could have taken a Neverwhere approach to the city. If it just comes across like a regular police procedural with fairy tale flashbacks, it loses some of the appeal. There should be a difference between generic cop with a mysterious, troubled past and Captain Hook cursed to think he's a cop in a modern American city. I guess we'll see how it shakes out after more than a few episodes.

Something that occurred to me -- I'm sure the casting of Latina actresses for Henry's wife and daughter has something to do with the (justified) criticism of lack of diversity in the cast, but given how weird and inappropriate Henry and Regina's relationship could be, it kind of comes across as a bit Freudian that he ends up marrying one of the few other Latina characters we've come across in that universe. And now I'm going to be imagining Henry thinking, "Hey, she's just like Mom!" when he meets Cinderella.

[CCTC]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

"Hey, she's just like Mom!" when he meets Cinderella.

Well -- Dania is only a couple of year's younger than Lana, so it will look like he is interested in someone who is a peer to his mother.

[Shanna Marie]

6 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Not surprised Rumple's still a thug in his new iteration. I wouldn't be surprised if he willingly cursed himself just like the first curse, and is also responsible for Hook being present. It will all probably so that he can be reunited with Belle and Gideon, who likely rejected him again.

And then he'll make one not entirely bad decision that works out, and he'll be hailed as a hero. Belle will claim that she always knew he was good inside and take him back. If there's another season, he'll immediately go back to being shady behind Belle's back. He might have cast the curse to get back to Belle, but then Lady Tremaine will have hijacked it, like Zelena in season 3, which is why they ended up in Seattle instead of in Storybrooke. And like in season 5, there will be no reason they needed the curse to travel to Storybrooke when there are those Apprentice doors, magic beans, etc.

I couldn't tell from the recap, but is there any explanation for Henry aging up when the others haven't? Or will that come in later episodes and we just have to go with it for now?

[rogvortex58]

Right now most people are just assuming that time simply moves differently in this other realm.

Edited September 29, 2017 by rogvortex58

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

There should be a difference between generic cop with a mysterious, troubled past and Captain Hook cursed to think he's a cop in a modern American city. I guess we'll see how it shakes out after more than a few episodes.

I just realized there will never be another funny moment where Hook interacts with technology.  And his phone won't have an Emma button.

[sharky]

1 hour ago, ParadoxLost said:

I just realized there will never be another funny moment where Hook interacts with technology.  And his phone won't have an Emma button.

At the same time, it is strange in a good way to see Hook acting like a normal person knowing who he really is. It's almost like watching Charming as deputy sheriff.

[Camera One]

9 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Not surprised Rumple's still a thug in his new iteration. I wouldn't be surprised if he willingly cursed himself just like the first curse, and is also responsible for Hook being present. It will all probably so that he can be reunited with Belle and Gideon, who likely rejected him again.

I'm guessing we will see a cryptic conversation between Rumple and Lady Tremaine in a dark alleyway in Hyperion Heights which makes us "wonder" how much each of them knows.  

I'm going to hold off reading a detailed recap so I can see if the episode engages me to continue watching.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, ParadoxLost said:

I just realized there will never be another funny moment where Hook interacts with technology.  And his phone won't have an Emma button.

I would be more sad about that if they'd ever really used that to its full potential. Most of the time, they seemed to forget that he didn't have a cursed memory download. We seldom got to see him react to anything modern. So I'm telling myself that the tradeoff of getting to see Colin play something different and wear something different will be worth it.

Does Lucy actually still have her memories, or is she just mapping things she sees to the book?

[cappoe]

9 hours ago, sharky said:

OK, so I've finally watched the screener. First, it was good but underwhelming. I think it would've been better if I went into it thinking of it as a pilot and not a continuation. There's alot of new characters to set up in the beginning. The whole Cinderella story, Henry's daughter, the frog princess, and Alice. I have no idea why some of them are in there yet and feel like this is typical A&E -- tossing alot of characters out there and ending up under utilizing half of them.

As for the returning characters, Rogers reminds me of Deckhand Hook -- timid good guy with some ambition. Not sure what's going on with his hand though. He has a black glove on the whole time, but he does move it so it's not like the faux hand attachment for his hook. And every good cop needs a bad cop, which is what Rumple is. Meh. Roni didn't bother me all that much. Probably because all three of the returning characters didn't really have much that reminded me of who they were in Storybrooke. Honestly, if you could be a newbie starting this series with this episode and no back story, you wouldn't have to worry about missing something. It's great for new fans but missing something for the rest of us.

Like I said, it was good, but it's definitely a new show. The real world feels more real than fairy tale, the characters seem more real than fairy tale, everything is just more real and less fantasy and I'm not sure how I feel about that. It could definitely grow on me, but I need to go back and watch the screener with a different mindset about what I should be expecting.

How was the CS moment that is supposed to be SO reassuring. I'm assuming it's supposed to parallel the S6 finale when Emma was cursed and saw a pic of Hook and was drawn to it and recognized it. Is that sort of suggesting no matter who this Hook is his true love is still Emma?

[InsertWordHere]

9 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

And now I'm going to be imagining Henry thinking, "Hey, she's just like Mom!" when he meets Cinderella.

Well, he does meet her when she's on her way to kill someone for revenge.

[sharky]

6 hours ago, cappoe said:

How was the CS moment that is supposed to be SO reassuring. I'm assuming it's supposed to parallel the S6 finale when Emma was cursed and saw a pic of Hook and was drawn to it and recognized it. Is that sort of suggesting no matter who this Hook is his true love is still Emma?

It's reassuring but not SO reassuring. I do think it parallels that Emma scene and another one in the series so who knows where this leads. 

Edited September 29, 2017 by sharky

[Camera One]

7 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

Well, he does meet her when she's on her way to kill someone for revenge.

Hmmm... wonder when we've seen that before?  And typical, if she had killed that someone for revenge, they probably wouldn't all be Cursed.  But Henry must stop her from doing it, or her heart will be filled with Darkness, which actually makes zero difference.  And how novel and practical of her to wear her puffy blue dress with a getaway carriage to commit such a treacherous deed.

[Mitch]

21 hours ago, CCTC said:

I like Lana and have liked Regina, but they have done the character no favors by turning her into a straight out hero.  She is much less interesting than she was at the start of the show.  Not that with their writing, I would want her still waffling between good and evil.  This show has a hard time doing gray characters - because by their version of gray is simply have them do something bad and then redeem them and rinse and repeat.  They don't do subtly or nuance that makes a true gray character.

Agreed I like Regina best as the conflicted anti-heroine...not bouncing around town spouting off hope but not going around snarling and killing people. She should be driven by selfish needs and ego, but fight against that. She should also should be "the ends justify the means," type. I thought the whole point of S1 was that they were stuck in their world with cemented roles...hero and villain..(which would make sense with the author crap) but in our world they have free will and a fresh start, but it is hard to fight the past.

16 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

That's the part that has me feeling iffy. I'm here for the fairy tales. One thing I loved about season one was the way Storybrooke felt like a fairy tale place, even though it was in the "real" world. It is certainly possible for a modern city to feel like a fairy tale setting -- just look at all the urban fantasy out there. They could have taken a Neverwhere approach to the city. If it just comes across like a regular police procedural with fairy tale flashbacks, it loses some of the appeal. There should be a difference between generic cop with a mysterious, troubled past and Captain Hook cursed to think he's a cop in a modern American city. I guess we'll see how it shakes out after more than a few episodes.

Something that occurred to me -- I'm sure the casting of Latina actresses for Henry's wife and daughter has something to do with the (justified) criticism of lack of diversity in the cast, but given how weird and inappropriate Henry and Regina's relationship could be, it kind of comes across as a bit Freudian that he ends up marrying one of the few other Latina characters we've come across in that universe. And now I'm going to be imagining Henry thinking, "Hey, she's just like Mom!" when he meets Cinderella.

Eh, I was always here for the premise they sold the show on, fairy tale characters in the real world. They changed that after S1 with airy fairy crap all the time and there is only so much you could take of that. I hope that with the budget constraints they will not use as much of their really, really bad CGI and spend more time with character development...(HAAH, I almost wrote that with a straight face!)

[Kktjones]

3 hours ago, sharky said:

I do think it parallels that Emma scene and another one in the series so who knows where this leads. 

My guess is that it leads to 7x02 and that's where it ends. I just don't see them wanting Rogers' story to center around his memories of someone who isn't on the show anymore. I know I should just wait and see what they end up doing in the second ep, but I still don't see any resolution for Hook and Emma's story that sounds even remotely "satisfying". I can't even get excited about the prospect of a CS child since Rogers would be separated from said child for the entire season, so what's the point? 

[daxx]

33 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

My guess is that it leads to 7x02 and that's where it ends. I just don't see them wanting Rogers' story to center around his memories of someone who isn't on the show anymore. I know I should just wait and see what they end up doing in the second ep, but I still don't see any resolution for Hook and Emma's story that sounds even remotely "satisfying". I can't even get excited about the prospect of a CS child since Rogers would be separated from said child for the entire season, so what's the point? 

Historically speaking the entire season is usually a couple weeks so him being separated doesn't bother me all that much.

[Kktjones]

8 minutes ago, daxx said:

Historically speaking the entire season is usually a couple weeks so him being separated doesn't bother me all that much.

That's true - not to mention time could move differently in EF 2.0 and HH, so he may only be gone for a day or two. I guess my point is that we won't see him interacting with their child (or Emma), so why is that something to get excited about? If the child was somehow in HH and there was a connection btw him/her and Rogers, that would be interesting to me. The fact he and Emma have a child is nice and all, but if I don't get to see them together as a family, it just doesn't do anything for me.

[cappoe]

9 hours ago, sharky said:

It's reassuring but not SO reassuring. I do think it parallels that Emma scene and another one in the series so who knows where this leads. 

Which is the other one it parallels?

5 hours ago, Kktjones said:

My guess is that it leads to 7x02 and that's where it ends. I just don't see them wanting Rogers' story to center around his memories of someone who isn't on the show anymore. I know I should just wait and see what they end up doing in the second ep, but I still don't see any resolution for Hook and Emma's story that sounds even remotely "satisfying". I can't even get excited about the prospect of a CS child since Rogers would be separated from said child for the entire season, so what's the point? 

I could have sword they said something like CS is still gonna play a part, their TL will still be felt or something. Comic Con or in May I feel is when they said that. I could see even if this is not our Hook he clearly is still drawn to Emma enough to recognize her. Which shows their true love shines even through a curse.

My personal scenario is we see a FF in 7x02 that is after the curse and we get to see CS reunite and see Hook see his baby for the first time, and them all together as a family. Then the rest of the season is about getting to that reunion for Hook. To me that's one of the only things that matches everything Colin has said. And Colin never speaks in absolutes but he is now, and I feel like that's for a reason. If CS was facing a season long separation with the unknown and never knowing what is gonna happen, he wouldn't be saying that CS fans have nothing to worry about and how CS is happy and they have their happy ending together. 

Colin speaking the way he does means something. Adam and Eddy saying crap means jack squat to me, cause they play the semantics game all the time.

Edited September 29, 2017 by cappoe

[oncebluethrone]

3 hours ago, cappoe said:

My personal scenario is we see a FF in 7x02 that is after the curse and we get to see CS reunite and see Hook see his baby for the first time, and them all together as a family. Then the rest of the season is about getting to that reunion for Hook. To me that's one of the only things that matches everything Colin has said. And Colin never speaks in absolutes but he is now, and I feel like that's for a reason. If CS was facing a season long separation with the unknown and never knowing what is gonna happen, he wouldn't be saying that CS fans have nothing to worry about and how CS is happy and they have their happy ending together. 

Colin speaking the way he does means something. Adam and Eddy saying crap means jack squat to me, cause they play the semantics game all the time.

I would love it if there was a flash-forward, but it doesn't seem like something A&E would do since it would be spoiling their own show and they are very #no spoilers.

[Rumsy4]

51 minutes ago, oncebluethrone said:

I would love it if there was a flash-forward, but it doesn't seem like something A&E would do since it would be spoiling their own show and they are very #no spoilers.

I agree. Besides, why should A&E bend over backwards just to reassure CS fans? It's not their style. They prefer to leave fans dangling over every little thing (plots, charatcers, etc.). 

Quote

Colin speaking the way he does means something.

I took what Colin said with a grain (or several bags) of salt. I think he was feeling the pressure to promote the new season in a positive way, and he went a tad overboard (with calling the season opener the best script he'd read, etc.). 

[RedKeep]

Besides, it's not like any of the cast likely already knew the details of how their respective stories are going to play out and eventually end over the course of this season at that stage. Promotion for this show prior to a season premiere has always been very much focused on the first couple of episodes and not because the cast was so great at keeping everything beyond that to themselves, but because you got the impression they honestly didn't know any more than that. I personally don't feel like that's changed this year. And yeah, I definitely don't see any flash forwards happening just to reassure a certain portion of their audience. Absolutely not their style and, for what it's worth, considering the scenario they're going for with this season I don't think it would make much sense either, especially not two episodes in.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, oncebluethrone said:

I would love it if there was a flash-forward, but it doesn't seem like something A&E would do since it would be spoiling their own show and they are very #no spoilers.

The aren't really #no spoilers.  They only pull that out when the topic is the carrot of what will happen with Emma because that is the only "mystery" that will get a segment of the audience to sample S7.  I've found myself amused at how often the #nospoilers is thrown out and then they talk at length about Henry or Regina or a hundred other spoilers not CaptainSwan related.

But that also make me agree with you that A&E won't do a flash forward because it gives closure that will be enough for some viewers to let the show go.  They are going to string this along.

[cappoe]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

I agree. Besides, why should A&E bend over backwards just to reassure CS fans? It's not their style. They prefer to leave fans dangling over every little thing (plots, charatcers, etc.). 

I took what Colin said with a grain (or several bags) of salt. I think he was feeling the pressure to promote the new season in a positive way, and he went a tad overboard (with calling the season opener the best script he'd read, etc.). 

Honestly I do not agree. I'm not taking anything Colin says with a grain of salt, because Colin is aware and he knows what his words mean to us. He is not one that deceives, he doesn't lie. This is not an Adam and Eddy situation where it's a technicality or semantics thing. He has straight up said absolute things and he's been consistent with it all summer long. From one end to the other. So I take that to mean something. 

Sure what he's doing to promote the new season is overboard however what he is saying about CS to me is something that means something. He wouldn't be doing this if there's gonna be unknown or something. He would speak in maybe's and we shall sees but he's speaking in absolutes. And this is the first time he's spoken in absolutes in his 5 years on the show.

Quote

But that also make me agree with you that A&E won't do a flash forward because it gives closure that will be enough for some viewers to let the show go.  They are going to string this along.

Colin speaking in absolutes says something. This can't be strung along otherwise we're looking at a cliffhanger that will either be resolved off screen or implied 20 + episodes later and Colin would be a bold faced liar that deceived us by telling us all summer long we had nothing to worry about and that they're together and happy and they have their happy ending. I don't think Colin is like that.

I think out of respect they should do that sequence or at the very least let the audience know that JMO can come back to resolve the SL whenever the series finale is or say that when JMO was there they filmed some other things that will be added throughout the season including the reunion.

Edited September 30, 2017 by cappoe

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, cappoe said:

Colin speaking in absolutes says something. This can't be strung along otherwise we're looking at a cliffhanger that will either be resolved off screen or implied 20 + episodes later and Colin would be a bold faced liar that deceived us by telling us all summer long we had nothing to worry about and that they're together and happy and they have their happy ending. I don't think Colin is like that.

But as others have said, how much does Colin know of the rest of the season? The series? I'm sure A&E would happily string along CS fans for as long as the Show lasts with a potential CS reunion, which they may not even deliver on-screen. 

Quote

I think out of respect they should do that sequence or at the very least let the audience know that JMO can come back to resolve the SL whenever the series finale is or say that when JMO was there they filmed some other things that will be added throughout the season including the reunion.

That seems like a rather unrealistic expectation. TV show writers have no obligation to coddle a small portion of the audience of a show that's waning in popularity. Besides, JMo coming back to film the series finale (whenever that happens) will depend on abc and JMo. I've never heard of a network or an actor contracting to come back for a series finale set in the undetermined future. Negotiations typically take place closer to the end date, if known. As for filming scenes that will be used for several episodes, that's not what JMo signed for. She signed on to come for one episode in Season 7. Not to film scenes for all of it. I'm sorry if I'm sounding discouraging, but I think it would be better to temper expectations and watch Season 7 as a new Show, rather than as something that's tied to its past (in any way).  

Edited September 30, 2017 by Rumsy4

[cappoe]

Quote

But as others have said, how much does Colin know of the rest of the season? The series? I'm sure A&E would happily string along CS fans for as long as the Show lasts with a potential CS reunion, which they may not even deliver on-screen. 

It doesn't matter what Colin knows about the rest of the season what matters is he knows about what happens to Emma and CS. That's where this all boils down to. I could give to flying flips what he knows for the rest of the season, it's this episode and this episode alone. He knows about this episode, and he's speaking with absolutes and certainties. That's the point I am trying to make.  He wouldn't be talking the way he is if we were gonna go through a 20 + episode separation with zero pay off. 

Although all interviews point to me that they will respect CS they won't disrespect it by doing dumb things this season and I know some people doubt the writers but if there's one thing I believe is when they're adamant on no new LI for Hook. They look like they're doing their dumb thing and just being a troll. It's not taken seriously like when they talk about the Regina LI which will happen in 7B.  

Also based on spoilers it seems like no matter what version of Hook this is, Emma is still his true love and that's not gonna be erased curse or not IMO.

Quote

hat seems like a rather unrealistic expectation. TV show writers have no obligation to coddle a small portion of the audience of a show that's waning in popularity. Besides, JMo coming back to film the series finale (whenever that happens) will depend on abc and JMo. I've never heard of a network or an actor contracting to come back for a series finale set in the undetermined future. Negotiations typically take place closer to the end date, if known. As for filming scenes that will be used for several episodes, that's not what JMo signed for. She signed on to come for one episode in Season 7. Not to film scenes for all of it. I'm sorry if I'm sounding discouraging, but I think it would be better to temper expectations and watch Season 7 as a new Show, rather than as something that's tied to its past (in every way).  

She signed on for one episode but they could have filmed a reunion that will be used later on in the season. She'll be payed for that appearance just like she will be payed for the 5 second cameo of Emma in the book in the season premiere.

[Kktjones]

15 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

But as others have said, how much does Colin know of the rest of the season? The series? I'm sure A&E would happily string along CS fans for as long as the Show lasts with a potential CS reunion, which they may not even deliver on-screen.

I totally agree. I think Colin was under a lot of pressure to promote S7 and was given the talking point "Emma and Hook got their happy ending". He's been running with that talking point since D23 when he had seen the script for 7x01 at most. I don't think he's lying, but the happy ending they are talking about could easily be what we saw at the end of S6 or the time between S6 finale and S7 premiere. I don't believe he has ever said "CS fans have nothing to worry about". He has only stuck to the "Emma and Hook got their happy ending" talking point. As was said above, these writers are not writing this for the CS audience - especially since Emma isn't on the show anymore!

2 minutes ago, cappoe said:

one thing I believe is when they're adamant on no new LI for Hook.

When have they ever been adamant on no new love interest for Hook? The only time I've seen it addressed was when Eddy said "Never say never." And then on twitter Adam said it was a legitimate question. I don't think they will go there, but who knows?

4 minutes ago, cappoe said:

She signed on for one episode but they could have filmed a reunion that will be used later on in the season.

Fans specifically asked about this and Adam shot this idea down in no uncertain terms.

I'm with @Rumsy4, I don't want to be a downer, but I think people have a better chance of not getting disappointed if they keep their expectations nice and low!

[Camera One]

3 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

with calling the season opener the best script he'd read, etc.

This time next week, we'll be experiencing this epic masterpiece!

[Rumsy4]

17 minutes ago, Camera One said:

This time next week, we'll be experiencing this epic masterpiece!

Are the tables ready for flipping? ;-)

Edited September 30, 2017 by Rumsy4