Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[KingOfHearts]

Snow reminds us of the heart-splitting and the episode is titled "Broken Heart".... hmm...

Edited November 29, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[HoodlumSheep]

Does anyone have any opinions on the pic of Rumple in the diner that RC posted? Is that actually him? I've seen a small few posters from tumblr who don't think that's actually him.

It's hard to tell. I think it's him? The fancy (fancy to me) bts pic effects kind of throw me off.

Edited November 29, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[orza]

RC posted the picture on twitter so why wouldn't it be him? BTS pictures are sometimes actors standing around between takes or posing for a funny cell phone picture. The pictures don't necessarily represent specific scenes we will see in the episode. RC could have been filming on another set and just wandered over to the diner set during a filming break and someone snapped a cell phone picture..

Edited November 29, 2015 by orza

[Rumsy4]

This is probably right after Hook casts the Dark Curse in Camelot (why does everything happen inside Granny's?). Dark Emma probably knocked them all out and is going to take their memories before it takes everyone back to Sb. 

[Mari]

 (why does everything happen inside Granny's?

Because no one uses their own kitchens.  They might wander too close to the sink and have a conversation.

[InsertWordHere]

This is probably right after Hook casts the Dark Curse in Camelot (why does everything happen inside Granny's?). Dark Emma probably knocked them all out and is going to take their memories before it takes everyone back to Sb. 

Yep, but I wonder who is seeing Clippy!Rumple, Emma or Hook? I would think Hook is seeing Nimue when he kills Merlin and possibly when he casts the curse. Does Rumple reappear to Hook or is Emma seeing him as she takes everyone's memories and he convinces her that she can fix Hook without anyone ever knowing what happened?

[Rumsy4]

It could well be to Emma. Or maybe Clippy!Rumple switches back and forth depending on which DO he can manipulate. 

[InsertWordHere]

The only thing that can save this for me is if Hook is tricking the Dark Ones and Emma and he is doing all this to snuff out the dark, not the light. Otherwise I fear we are getting the Buffy/Angel she has to kill him to save the world ending. Rumple no longer having the cane in spoiler pics for the 100th is explained, so he might not be a Dark One again. 

 

Also, yay for this topic not being locked.

[KAOS Agent]

I don't think Hook has to die for the whole Dark Ones thing to be undone. Rumpel closes the portal with his blood after Emma is de-darkened, so it's not quite Buffy must kill Angel to seal the portal. I think that there will be a choice and Hook will sacrifice to save Emma from the Darkness. I still think that free will must be involved or no one would bother chasing Hook into the Underworld.

[formerlyfreedom]

It's only unlocked due to an oversight, and I was going to let it go, but we're having episode talk in here. Take it to the episode thread, people, or we will lock it.

[LizaD]

Well Jane E. was one of Buffy's writers. She probably pitched it.

The Canadian promo shows Nimue trying to kill Emma with everyone in the background. Looks like it got out of control for it to be a trick, not to mention the filming spoilers of them roaming around town marking people.

I do hope it's a trick, otherwise I can't give credit to Hook's "grand sacrifice" if he's just fixing his own mistakes. Sorry but I thought it was complete bullshit that Woegina was all of a sudden a hero that everyone had to kiss her ass cause she now wanted to stop the fail safe that she was going to use to kill everyone. In the words of Elsa, "no thanks needed when I caused all the trouble."

I also hope the Hook and Woegina centric doesn't mean Woegina is going to step up and Kill Hook cause Emma is incapable of it. In fact, nevermind that's probably the case. Or it's Hook's and Woegina's plan together cause they don't trust Emma to be able to do it and we all know Emma isn't ever allowed to be competent. That would allow to them to say "see our master storytellers give their own twist to Buffy-Angel!"

Edited November 30, 2015 by LizaD

[tennisgurl]

Oh God. I see it all now. Hook realizes he needs to die to fix all the evil he did as Dark Hook. He asked Regina to kill him so Emma wont have to. Drama drama sad faces. 

[YaddaYadda]

I'd buy into this if they hadn't shown Emma swinging Excalibur at Hook in the promo for 5x11. He's threatening her family, so I guess that could push her to act. Although with a family of judgmental, non-supportive asshats, I'm not sure why she would even wanna save them.

[InsertWordHere]

Regina in Season 2 is exactly what this rescue mission will remind me of, if Hook dies due to the mess he started. When Regina inexplicably joined up with Cora in Season 2, I thought she was tricking her too and I was dead wrong. But Hook has usually been less easily manipulated than Regina.

 

Anyone know if Brad Dourif will show up next episode?

[KingOfHearts]

I'm really hoping the Underworld stuff doesn't have to do with saving Hook, especially if Hook sacrifices himself for redemption from what he's done. If they save him after he does that, it means his wishes have been trampled again. Part of me just wants him to die honorably.

Edited November 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[formerlyfreedom]

Topic will reopen Monday morning.

[PixiePaws1]

in the promo the look on Killian's face when Nimue is choking Emma is all kinds of cold...like he has no power to react....

Seriously if he can't pull himself out of the Darkness or he isn't running his own plan to get all the Darkness in one place to end it...then I hope that anyone other than Emma has to put him down. ...she doesn't deserve to have to do that. ..to have that memory. She'll have enough guilt with taking on the Darkness which began the whole mess (we all know it was Rumple ) but Emma won't likely see it that way.

Edited November 30, 2015 by PixiePaws1

[kili]

Man, I was a Negative Nelly about what was going to happen in the last episode and I still wasn't negative enough. Given what we saw last night and in the promos, I'm pretty sure that Hook is doing all the evil he is doing just to be evil. He drank the Dark One Kool-Aid and went back for seconds. So, no, I don't think Hook is pulling a fast one on the Dark Ones.

 

Based on what happens in the CTV promos, I think that Hook finally comes to his senses when one of the Dark Ones does something to harm Emma (some gut thing) in a showdown on Main Street. His expression changes and for once, he looks concerned instead of angry or elated. I can't find it online or I would Zapruder it for clues.

 

So, he's doing all this bad crap, comes to his senses and pulls an Ingrid. He may need a bit of help from Emma to complete his death, but if he doesn't sacrifice himself, I can't see why anybody would agree to go to the Underworld to save him. Given the way they treated Emma who did no more to them than steal their memories, these people wouldn't spit on Hook if he was on fire if he died in his current state.

 

Granted, without reforming somewhat before death, they probably shouldn't save him. The other Dark Ones certainly came back fully evil. Why would you go to save somebody who was still a super-active Dark One - one that did something even Rumple wouldn't do (bring back the Dark Ones)? If Hook doesn't play a part in his own death, I will not be a happy camper.

 

Of course, A&E will paint this all as greatly romantic and figure they've redeemed Hook if he is part of sacrificing himself, but if he's just cleaning up his own mess, it rings a little hollow like when Regina stopped the failsafe. I wish that A&E would learn that an Amazing Idea is not amazing when they must assassinate characters and logic at the same time.

[Hookian]

Killian is definitely going to sacrifice himself to save Emma.

 

I think what you said is mostly true. The showdown is at the lake going from the end of the CTV promo. Nimue is choking Emma and Hook is looking on. He's the only one that will be able to do something because everybody else in the background looks like their frozen.

 

So he'll use that moment to wake up and he will see his TL being choked and that's just not gonna slide so he'll kill Nimue which will somehow in a way kill all the other DO's until it's just him and Emma. I'm thinking that either he will kill himself or Emma will have to kill him to destroy the darkness for good. That's been his plan all along to make the ultimate sacrifice for his TL. 

 

Then when all is said and done, Emma will use the magical ale provided by Merida to contact Killian from the UW for some words probably also including Emma telling him she's gonna go get him back the right way and that she loves him and I'm sure it's gonna hurt like a bitch.

 

Then everybody will go along with her including Rumple because he saved everyone.

 

They're definitely going to the Underworld though. I know that many have thought the UW is going to them but this episode has now confirmed they're going. We have BTS pics of Rumple cutting his arm with the dagger and placing the blood in the water and we know that opens a portal to the Underworld. More than likely it means that we'll end the finale with them on their way to rescue him.

 

Operation Light Swan commences at the end of next weeks episode.

[RadioGirl27]

in the promo the look on Killian's face when Nimue is choking Emma is all kinds of cold...like he has no power to react....

Seriously if he can't pull himself out of the Darkness or he isn't running his own plan to get all the Darkness in one place to end it...then I hope that anyone other than Emma has to put him down. ...she doesn't deserve to have to do that. ..to have that memory. She'll have enough guilt with taking on the Darkness which began the whole mess (we all know it was Rumple ) but Emma won't likely see it that way.

God, no. If he doesn't sacrifice himself, then it has to be Emma, this is her mess to clean. Having either Regina or Rumple do it would be anticlimactic (and, especially in the second case, insulting for Hook's fans, because not only they are completely destroying him, they are leting his mortal enemy end him). Edited November 30, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Mari]

I think it is either himself, or Emma, or them in combination.

 

But, well, TSTW--so I don't think the necessity of it not being Regina or Rumple would occur to the writing team.

[sharky]

My question is if he does dispense of the other Dark Ones, what happens to Gold? Wouldn't he disappear too? Or it the fact that he's still alive because of loop holes save his sorry ass?

 

Also, those BTS photos with Gold and Emma make sense now. I'm not sure why Gold is using the dagger to cut himself instead of just a plain old knife or something -- maybe it's something only dark magic like the dagger can affect -- but it's obvious that he's cutting himself to open the portal. So then the next question is why is Gold even cooperating at that point?

[Hookian]

It's gonna be some kind of combination. He'll kill Nimue which will kill all the other DO's and then he'll make Emma kill him which will destroy the darkness for good.

My question is if he does dispense of the other Dark Ones, what happens to Gold? Wouldn't he disappear too? Or it the fact that he's still alive because of loop holes save his sorry ass?

 

Also, those BTS photos with Gold and Emma make sense now. I'm not sure why Gold is using the dagger to cut himself instead of just a plain old knife or something -- maybe it's something only dark magic like the dagger can affect -- but it's obvious that he's cutting himself to open the portal. So then the next question is why is Gold even cooperating at that point?

 

Gold is no longer the Dark One, he had a reset so he'll be safe.

 

I think Gold is cooperating because of the type of person he is now. Also Hook did take away his limp, and he did save them all so he may feel like he owes him.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Hookian

[chrisvee]

Man, I was a Negative Nelly about what was going to happen in the last episode and I still wasn't negative enough. Given what we saw last night and in the promos, I'm pretty sure that Hook is doing all the evil he is doing just to be evil. He drank the Dark One Kool-Aid and went back for seconds. So, no, I don't think Hook is pulling a fast one on the Dark Ones.

Based on what happens in the CTV promos.

I hear you! I thought it would be bad but it was worse than I suspected. Hard to save a relationship after those kinds of words are spoken and those kinds of things are done. If I were Emma I wouldn't be able to forgive it. But Emma's a damned saint so I'm sure she will.

From the CTV promo I sense they'll fake the Buffy/Angel thing but really do a Darth Vader/Luke thing. Hook looks pretty conflicted when Nimue is forcechoking Emma.

Did Merlin actually brew the dark curse or did Hook do it when he disappeared for a bit? Gotta say that I won't mourn Merlin much. Tired of him being useless other than 'I told you so.'

Edited November 30, 2015 by chrisvee

[Hookian]

I hear you! I thought it would be bad but it was worse than I suspected. Hard to save a relationship after those kinds of words are spoken and those kinds of things are done. If I were Emma I wouldn't be able to forgive it. But Emma's a damned saint so I'm sure she will.

From the CTV promo I sense they'll fake the Buffy/Angel thing but really do a Darth Vader/Luke thing. Hook looks pretty conflicted when Nimue is forcechoking Emma.

Did Merlin actually brew the dark curse or did Hook do it when he disappeared for a bit? Gotta say that I won't mourn Merlin much. Tired of him being useless other than 'I told you so.'

 

They'll chalk it up to the darkness but Killian won't forgive himself for what he said to Emma. I'm sure during that scene with the magical ale because you know that will come back that scene will be heartbreaking and beautiful and show us the real Killian with Emma then Emma vowing to save him.

[kili]

I'm horribly afraid that dumba$$ Merlin is going to show up next episode. He's probably in the boat hiding out behind the boar. If he brewed up the Dark Curse potion (he doesn't need the scroll because he wrote the spell) he had to have known he was going to die and his heart was going to be crushed to complete the curse.

 

I can just see him popping off his hood and spouting some platitudes to save the day. This was all his plan all along. Gag! He even admitted that he saw this path for Emma (then why didn't he warn them to wrap Hook in cotton balls and keep him the hell away from Excalibur? Jerk), so he's playing some long game.

Edited November 30, 2015 by kili

[Rumsy4]

So then the next question is why is Gold even cooperating at that point?

Maybe he realized that Hook threw the fight on the Jolly Roger (if he did) + he thinks it will help him win back Belle. Or he really is the most honorable hero ever now (:-p).

So, Belle apparently does leave Storybrooke to "find herself" or something. Her father did want her to get out of that place long ago. I wonder if we will even see de Ravin in 5B until perhaps the last episode or two.

[Hookian]

Maybe he realized that Hook threw the fight on the Jolly Roger (if he did) + he thinks it will help him win back Belle. Or he really is the most honorable hero ever now (:-p).

So, Belle apparently does leave Storybrooke to "find herself" or something. Her father did want her to get out of that place long ago. I wonder if we will even see de Ravin in 5B until perhaps the last episode or two.

 

I would imagine that since 5B is taking place in the Underworld and not vice-verca aka UW comes to them it means that Belle won't get screentime at all. Probably did this because of her pregnancy.

[Mathius]

Brigitte Hales is dropping some none-too-subtle hints on Twitter that Hook does indeed have something else up his sleeve here ("let us finish telling the whole story before making any assumptions"). Again, I find this obvious: him just being evil and dying would make the Underworld mission to rescue him make no sense at all. He's making a sacrifice.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Mathius

[mjgchick]

Of course he'll sacrifice himself for the greater good other wise why make him so drastic to evil and pile up on Emma like that? He'll either let Emma drive the sword through him or he does it himself or like others have said he kills Nimue which kills him because of his wound. Maybe they'll get their true love kiss but he'll still get sucked into the Underworld because why not.

[Dianthus]

Going back to the EQ testing Hook spoiler for a moment, what if she's doing it at someone else's behest? What if that's how they incorporate Poppa Jones into this mess? What if Jones Sr. is forbidden from interacting with his son, but wants to see how far gone he is? It's more of a Rumple thing to make deals, but, maybe? 

[oliverwendell]

 

He's making a sacrifice.

 

This would be great, but my fear is he's going to decide to make a sacrifice. Right at the end. Better late than never and all, but I would be much, much happier if he'd been planning all along to drive Emma away and make her hate him enough to do the killing that needs to be done. I'm honestly not sure I can forgive him otherwise. Those things he said to her were so awful, and if he killed Merlin just to get back to SB to kill Gold (as opposed to killing him to get back to the Hellmouth to summon the Dark Ones so he could end the Darkness)? Ugh. Plus, I can't help it, I need him to be as strong as Emma in his fight against the Darkness (or almost as strong; I get that she should be stronger because she's the Saviour) or I won't think he's worthy of her. And then this ship will be dead to me.

[InsertWordHere]

There's got to be something sympathetic for Hook in this backstory and it cant just be wee Killian and his dad. Otherwise, they're following up Hook being terrible in Camelot and Storybrooke in 5.10 by showing Hook being terrible in present day, Hook being terrible as an adult in the flashbacks, and then Hook dying in the last five minutes or so because he pulls a heel face turn at the last minute. No thanks. Why would anyone want to rescue him, last minute sacrifice or not?

 

If this flashback does take place after Hook brings Cora back, maybe the focus is on Hook conning Regina, who thinks he has killed her mother. I don't get why Regina would be testing him after (as far as she knows) he already did the job she sent him to do, but maybe this is to show that Hook can and has fooled the evil person trying to use him as her lackey?

[YaddaYadda]

Yeah, so I'm pretty sure Hook just gave Nimue what she wanted, and that he is now playing her. He did what Emma wouldn't, kill Merlin.

 

Plus, I really have to wonder if Hook didn't know about Merlin's plans, visions because he got the darkness from him, so he got to see what the man was thinking. He walks into Granny's and is all about the Dark Curse that's already brewing in the kitchen.

 

Oh, okay!

 

He put everyone in the same room, he's the vessel that's going to contain all the darkness, since he's going to fulfill Zelena's role, and he'll peace out, though I really don't think he dies.

 

You can't destroy something that's not physically there. And Nimue keeps calling herself all Dark Ones. She's all Dark Ones. So I'm assuming you start pruning the tree with her, until you get to the last 2 people standing.

Edited November 30, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[kili]

There's got to be something sympathetic for Hook in this backstory and it cant just be wee Killian and his dad. Otherwise, they're following up Hook being terrible in Camelot and Storybrooke in 5.10 by showing Hook being terrible in present day, Hook being terrible as an adult in the flashbacks, and then Hook dying in the last five minutes or so because he pulls a heel face turn at the last minute. No thanks. Why would anyone want to rescue him, last minute sacrifice or not?

 

Because A&E don't care about building redemption arcs. They are just going to have everybody say they forgive him and everybody will. He might be emo for a few episodes, but it will all be soon forgotten because of Plot.  If he turns evil so easily and so quickly and so extremely, maybe people should be side-eyeing him and not want to rescue him. That's not being a bad person, that's being sensible. But, A&E will not want to give up their toy, so they will just declare him good again like Regina.

 

I'm quicly convinced that Hook's careful redemption arc happened by accident. That's why A&E were willing to blow it away for an illogical Amazing Twist

 

As for the flashbacks to Hook's childhood, I expect Merlin to show up and tell him something cryptic and creepy and Hook will suddenly remember it 300 years later and it will save the day because that will be a classic A&E Amazing Twist.

[Rumsy4]

What if the Nevengers go the UW not to save Hook, but because they were all marked by Nimue, and need to save their own asses? Maybe Emma will be the only person who believes Hook played her so he could sacrificed himself. Gold might back her up for once, especially after he refused to give or get help from her for his duel with Dark Hook. Maybe he realizes that Hook only needed his blood.

Plus, I really have to wonder if Hook didn't know about Merlin's plans, visions because he got the darkness from him, so he got to see what the man was thinking. He walks into Granny's and is all about the Dark Curse that's already brewing in the kitchen.

 

Yeah--something seriously shady there. Why was Merlin making the Dark Curse? He did seem surprised that Hook was going to use his own heart. So maybe Merlin had some other scapegoat in mind.  

Edited November 30, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Shanna Marie]

I don't know that Hook sacrificing himself would just fall into the category of cleaning up his own mess, along the lines of Ingrid and Regina with the failsafe, since he was being influenced by something else that he didn't want and specifically asked not to be done to him. How much culpability he really has remains to be seen, but unlike Rumple, who murdered to get the Dark One power, this was forced on Hook against his wishes, so there is at least a tiny degree of victim here.

 

I keep holding on to the fact that if everyone is going to the Underworld to save him, he has to have done something good, since I'm not sure that anyone but Emma would have crossed the street to help him even before he was the Dark One doing dark things.

[Souris]

What if the Nevengers go the UW not to save Hook, but because they were all marked by Nimue, and need to save their own asses?

 

That doesn't fit with the set spoiler line of "I agreed to come here and get your pirate and get the hell out!"

 

Also, there's a time jump of some length between them all going to the lake with the Dark Ones and Dark Swan, and the scene of Gold cutting his hand -- they all change clothes. If they were going to be forced to the UW, I would think it would've happened immediately.

[mjgchick]

Yeah wasn't their a dialogue about Regina going to get Emma's pirate? If Hook didn't do something good why would anyone do this?

He probably does save them all. They had David says he hopes Emma's faith in her love for Hook pays off after Snows hope speech so yeah I think he does.

[Rumsy4]

That doesn't fit with the set spoiler line of "I agreed to come here and get your pirate and get the hell out!"

 

It might, if Gold says that line, and if as I said, he believes Hook sacrificed himself to save them.

Also, there's a time jump of some length between them all going to the lake with the Dark Ones and Dark Swan, and the scene of Gold cutting his hand -- they all change clothes. If they were going to be forced to the UW, I would think it would've happened immediately.

 

Not necessarily. ONCE loves doing that kind of fakeout where everyone thinks the threat is destroyed... but wait!!! It's not really. 

They had David says he hopes Emma's faith in her love for Hook pays off after Snows hope speech so yeah I think he does.

 

I hope so... ;-)

 

ETA: Was this Elliot Knight's last episode, or will he be in Swan Song?

Edited November 30, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Mathius]

It might, if Gold says that line, and if as I said, he believes Hook sacrificed himself to save them.

 

No, I think Regina says it, because she is characteristically ungrateful that Hook sacrificed himself to save them.

 

ETA: Was this Elliot Knight's last episode, or will he be in Swan Song?

 

A&E and Elliot Knight have hinted that he's going to show up in Swan Song.

 

No thanks. Why would anyone want to rescue him, last minute sacrifice or not?

 

Um, they saved Regina during the S2 finale when she attempted her last minute sacrifice.  So why not Hook?

 

Also, I'm pretty certain that Hook's evil, at least in present Storybrooke, is based around multiple factors:

 

- Acting evil to fool Nimue and the other Dark Ones.

- Acting evil in order to push Emma and others away so they won't stop him (just like Emma did to him and the rest).

- Acting evil to get Emma to be willing to kill him once he takes on all the darkness.

- Acting evil to get to the position in which he CAN take on all the darkness.

- Acting evil and doing/saying truly nasty things so that, to him, he will DESERVE death in the end.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Mathius

[mjgchick]

He'll probably meet young Killy or maybe give us a "Surprise Bitch. Thought you heard the last of me." on us.

[kili]

Yeah wasn't their a dialogue about Regina going to get Emma's pirate? If Hook didn't do something good why would anyone do this?

 

Because A&E don't want to give up their Hook toy? Seriously, A&E have written Regina sympathetically while she was complaining about being evil all while she had a guy falsely imprisoned and she was thinking about murdering her boyfriend's wife. Emma will want to save Hook and all those people who wouldn't even let her help read a book last week will suddenly be all Ohana and of course we will save your psychopathic boyfriend even though we have to go to hell and back to do it.

 

I can't even predict where they are going with the story next week because nobody on this show behaves in a logical manner when it comes to the villains. Hook could be running a long-con on the people who live in his head (woudn't they have noticed if he'd had a chat with Merlin about anything so it couldn't have happened in Camelot - the only chance is if Merlin told 5 year old Killian the plan). Hook could have a sudden change of heart (that's a go-to move for villains on this show from Cora to Ingrid to Rumple to even Regina. Either everybody or themselves are about to die and they suddenly decide they want to save everybody and all sins are forgiven). Hook could go down like a rabid dog, but Emma just can't live without him, so everybody will cheerfully (with a soupçon of snark) go along with the plan.

 

Whatever A&E will thing will give them the biggest Amazing Twist will be what they go with. And if viewers complain that it is completely illogical, they will just tell us that we are stupid or patronize us (well, we couldn't just have them kiss for 45 minutes). Argh!

[InsertWordHere]

Um, they saved Regina during the S2 finale when she attempted her last minute sacrifice.  So why not Hook?

That's exactly my point. I don't want them to pull Regina-like wankery to suddenly be on Hook's side. I don't want Hook to sacrifice himself stopping the threat that he stupidly caused. Hook is not Regina. This show has never treated him like Regina in terms of the bending they have done to other characters to justify the lengths her victims will go to for her. I don't want him to be like Regina. If he pulls a last minute sacrifice to stop the Dark Ones, not because he was planning this all along but because he has a last minute change of heart, then to quote Emma, that's not enough for me. That's why I say no thanks. Sure, they can make the characters do whatever they want, and some fans will say it's in character and others will say it's not, but it won't change how I feel about this storyline. 

 

Your further points are just emphasizing my belief that Hook is pulling a con on everyone. I want him to be pulling a con. 

[Souris]

Reminder of Brigitte's earlier tweets about the winter finale.

[YaddaYadda]

Your further points are just emphasizing my belief that Hook is pulling a con on everyone. I want him to be pulling a con. 

 

I'm gonna sit next to you on this one. Plus there's this.

 

Killian: Well, you’re only a pawn if you don’t know you’re being used.

 

so he knows perfectly well he's being used, I think he got in Nimue's good graces by crushing Merlin's heart. Emma was supposed to kill him, she didn't.

 

Nimue: We’re here, all of us, as promised, in the flesh.

 

Sounds like he made a deal with her. 

[InsertWordHere]

 

(woudn't they have noticed if he'd had a chat with Merlin about anything so it couldn't have happened in Camelot - the only chance is if Merlin told 5 year old Killian the plan)

Didn't Merlin stay behind at Granny's while all the others (except the unseen dwarves, Granny, and the kids) trekked to the Dark One Vault? And Dark Hook was away from Emma a couple times in Camelot.

 

Edit: Nevermind, you were talking about the DO voices. Um, maybe Merlin has a cone of Silence or something?

 

I think he got in Nimue's good graces by crushing Merlin's heart.

If so, and Merlin wanted this to happen, then it really is like Snape and Dumbledore. 

Edited November 30, 2015 by InsertWordHere

[Watt]

Maybe Hook is trying to make Emma hate him to make it easier (in his mind) for her to lose him. I firmly believe he's got more going on than what we see.

[TwistedandBored]

I love how we are blaming Merlin for Hook turning Dark One real quick as well as killing him. I mean way to go Merlin.

 

Honestly, these writers fucked up this whole season 5A and I blame them but that is just me. 

[kili]

Didn't Merlin stay behind at Granny's while all the others (except the unseen dwarves, Granny, and the kids) trekked to the Dark One Vault? And Dark Hook was away from Emma a couple times in Camelot.

 

Yes, Hook could easily have talked to Merlin without the other live people noticing, but they aren't the ones he really, really needs to fool. If Hook and Merlin were to cook up a plot in Camelot where Hook would be playing a long-con on the other Dark Ones, when are they have supposed to have done it? Clippy!Rumple and Clippy!Nimue know what is going on with the live Dark Ones even if they aren't shown in the scene. Clippy!Rumple found Hook before Emma did. Clippy!Nimue knew exactly what was going on when she showed up at the Prometheus Stone and in Grannies. It's inconcievable that Hook could have snuck off to Grannies to make some sort of plan with Merlin without the other Dark Ones knowing about it (although, I'm pretty sure A&E don't know the meaning of the word "inconcievable").

 

The only way Merlin and Hook were playing the long-con is if Merlin told him about the plan prior to him becoming a Dark One. We clearly saw Hook getting frustrated with Merlin for not telling them anything, so it would seem a bit strange for Merlin to have been plotting with him in Camelot. The slim possibility is that Merlin told BabyHook the plan and then says something to him to remind him about the plan. That would be completely consistent with how Merlin rolls. The quizical look he gave Hook when he first saw him could be him wondering if Hook recognized him. In 300 years, one can forget a lot of people and strange things one was told as a child.

 

If Merlin is Dumpledore and Hook is Snape and they are running a long-con on the Dark Ones, then this had to have been plotted prior to Hook dying. Merlin can see the future, so pretty much anything is fair game. Although, why he didn't kill Nimue when he had the chance remains a mystery if he is willing to get her killed later.