Mathius November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 (edited) As was Merida's "all it takes is one good hand and a sword" to be a hero, Hook seeming drawn to Excalibur, the comparisons to Arthur (Hook being what Arthur should have become when it comes to being an Excalibur-wielding hero AND a good lover to the woman he loves) and to Merlin (set to accomplish what Merlin could not and save his Dark One lover.) Edited November 9, 2015 by Mathius Link to comment
Souris November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 (edited) Hook is mostly missing during the SB scenes where the Dark Ones/cloaked figures are running around SB & Nimue is marking people on the wrist. There were two scenes filmed with him, one with Regina and nobody saw what the other one was (or at least nobody on set spoiled it). He was spotted wearing a cloak, though that could have been for warmth between takes. Or not. Edited November 9, 2015 by Souris Link to comment
YaddaYadda November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 Merlin's comment about maybe someday there would be someone who could hold all that Darkness but not be evil (only saw scene once so not sure of the exact words) was a huge signpost.... That was interesting actually. But if the sword holds both names, maybe that's the whole reason Emma does it? Isn't Emma doing just that though? Even Nimue said she was worried that Emma would snuff out the darkness instead of the light. I guess Emma crushing someone's heart will send her to that place of "evil", or whatever... Link to comment
KingOfHearts November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 (edited) I still want to see an episode of what some of the background characters have been up since 3B, in the vain of LOST's "Expose," which was written by A&E IIRC. The two characters it focused on were not popular, but the execution of the episode, weaving their stories into the background of already existing scenes was pretty well done. This is really bad timing though. Next week's first episode sounds like the catalyst for the climax in the same vein of A Curious Thing or Fall. If they wanted a one-off, 5x05 or 5x06 (which was already one) would have been better placement. I'm all for side adventures, but they should be to help fuel the current story in some manner or give us new information on the characters. Hansel and Gretel gave us insight on Emma's childhood and how she felt about Neal, for example. With all this momentum going, I'm afraid it might die a little like it did in 4A. Edited November 9, 2015 by KingOfHearts 3 Link to comment
Mathius November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 (edited) I recall Hook in a group scene with Emma, Snowing, Regina, Robin and Rumple as well, so he's still on team good guy (as are Emma and Rumple, I can't wait to see how that goes down.) Edited November 9, 2015 by Mathius Link to comment
HoodlumSheep November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 http://www.buzzfeed.com/keelyflaherty/heres-everything-we-know-about-merlin-on-once-upon-a-time#.ru5VbDZdQ I don't know I should post this in the Spoilers Only (or even media?) thread, because it's pretty vague and doesn't really spoil anything. But anxiety and indecision led me to post it here. If I need to move it please tell me. I'm glad there's more to come with Emma & Merlin and Nimue, and happy to know there's some sort of connection with Killian and Merlin. Link to comment
Selina K November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 I still don't know if I'm a 100% on board with Dark Killy. All the interviews from long ago never sounded like he would go dark. But then again, that was way back before 5x01. So things might have changed, or they did a good job skirting around giving too much away. i feel like every interview at the beginning of the season though, had some question like "Will Hook consider going dark with Emma?" Maybe the "with Emma' part was what let them answer no, he's there to support her. I'm going to give the writers a rare shout out in that we know or we think we know the Underworld is coming and there have been actual references to Charon and Prometheus this season as opposed to Wicked and the QoD who seemingly showed up randomly in the back half of each season with little to no foreshadowing. I am more optimistic about 5B than I have been about the B season any other time. Link to comment
kili November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 There are spoilers about the Camelot crew happily going back to Camelot....how is Arthur going to come back from what he's done? (Ignoring Regina) He is making some really evil choices and I'm not sure he should be rewarded with returing to be King of Camelot. The Storybrookers might be happy to see the back end of him, but would they really help him all that much after what he has done? Something has to happen in Camelot for the dagger to get stuffed back into the rock so somebody gets it away from Arthur. Maybe Emma sends the stone and sword to Storybrooke and Arhtur makes her kill Hook to get them to follow? Or maybe Arthur, somehow in his madness, ends up killing Gwen (I'm betting the acidic goop he made) and forces Emma to save her at some cost to the Storybrookers? Link to comment
Rumsy4 November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 (edited) It looks like Arthur is controlling Merlin, and is trying to leverage Emma into handing him the Dagger and the Ember. New theory: Merlin asks Emma to kill him and transport everyone back to Storybrooke using the Dark+Memory Curse. Otherwise Arthur would reforge Excalibur and run uncontrolled. Arthur did want to be the greatest king in all the Realms. Merlin trusts Emma can eventually fight her way out of the Darkness. After all, Emma because the DO to save everyone. She might well embrace the Darkness for the same reason. Man, the Nevengers really messed up, didn't they? They had ONE job. Edited November 9, 2015 by Rumsy4 2 Link to comment
mjgchick November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 Wasn't their filming of Arthur being taken handcuffed with Merida? The question is what happens to Guin since she's only Queen because she married Arthur. Since he might be in jail for a bit does she go on ruling Camelot? 1 Link to comment
LizaD November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 I'm pretty pumped for more Merlin and Nimue no matter what they do. And them with Hook and Emma makes up a pretty interesting and good looking quad. I'd watch a show with just them with a side of Arthur and Zelena. Merlin's comment about maybe someday there would be someone who could hold all that Darkness but not be evil I think he said someone might be able to hold it without it burning through their soul or something. I don't think Emma alone is it but Emma and Hook could based off of the 2 names on the sword thing. I think they become co-DOs since Hook had a wardrobe change and imp Rump was spotted in the Gold-Hook fight. I'm guessing Nimue tricked Snowing and co. to stuff the broken sword back into the stone while she gets Emma dark and the one sure way to do that is to get her to crush a heart. Emma's pissed cause she needs that sword to cure herself. Maybe after the heart crushing they don't trust her to be good anymore. Arthur wants the whole sword too so it looks like the only one who doesn't is Nimue. Emma did say to Nimue that she didn't want the sword to be reforged back in Camelot and then Nimue explained why. Link to comment
Souris November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 There was a spoiler about Arthur being restrained when they leave. I bet Guinevere does end up ruling Camelot after she's de-sanded. Link to comment
scenicbyway November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 I don't think Hook goes dark. It looks like Emma does have Zelena tether him to the sword. I thought it was interesting that Emma asked Merlin about using Dark Magic for protection... I do think we've seen how the Nevengers let Emma down, it's letting Zelena basically run free and then Arthur is able to have control of Merlin. I'm surprised they didn't have a party at Granny's before that. Also, all of them have enough battle and storming structures experience it was ridiculous they even listened to Zelena. I wonder what leads Hook to his roof jump? Does he see something in the snowglobe? Why does Emma decide to tether him to the sword? Why does Hook fight Rumple with the sword? I get the sharing the burden part, but it seems like both would end up dead? I hope Emma isn't trying to make Killian immortal too, (which by the way, if Merlin did die for the latest curse, it would appear that no one is immortal, just the darkness)? There was a spoiler about Arthur being restrained when they leave. I bet Guinevere does end up ruling Camelot after she's de-sanded. Is there anything to rule, if the Castle is made of sand? Link to comment
Rumsy4 November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 Is there anything to rule, if the Castle is made of sand? There's still the original rustic Camelot. Besides, Storybrooke is made of magic too. It's not like it's going to crumble an time soon. Link to comment
Mari November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 Since Nimue is apparently scheming in Camelot Emma's brain, is it possible she's gained a body and is in Storybrooke? Link to comment
KingOfHearts November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 Since Nimue is apparently scheming in Camelot Emma's brain, is it possible she's gained a body and is in Storybrooke? I'm guessing Nimue's soul is the only one still tied to the Dark One, as the chalice made her immortal. Excalibur could maybe "cut" her away from it, freeing her body. That's all I got as to why she's in Storybrooke. Unless the curse brought her over as Granny, and the real one is tied up in the freezer. Nimue!Granny could have been listening to their conversations this whole time. Link to comment
chrisvee November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 (edited) Merlin didn't go dark once he was tethered to the sword -- he's under compulsion because Arthur is holding the sword and Merlin's power is tied to it. So why would Killian necessarily go dark? Why wouldn't he just be immortal and imbued with power -- with free choice ahead of him as to how to wield it as long as he possesses Excalibur? We know that Excalibur was forged for a specific purpose -- to remove magic from a person with power whether it be of the light or of the dark. Merlin was going to use it to remove his magic/immortality and Nimue destroyed it to prevent it from being used against either one of them. The tethering is quite a separate matter since it was a process by which Merlin could ensure the Dark One's power could be limited -- and now it's been extended to controlling those with light magic. I think Nimue's end game is to create the most powerful Dark One ever who has no limitations to power -- Dark Emma. I still think Emma is pulling the long con on Nimue and her plans are still to use Excalibur to rid herself of the darkness thereby eliminating the Dark One -- although not all dark magic since the Dark One isn't the source of all darkness. She was prevented from doing it in Camelot by Arthur probably because he threatened to kill Killian and she was forced to kill someone to save him. That pushed her to full dark. Dark Emma probably plans to die since she thinks the darkness has taken root but wants to leave Killian with Excalibur to wield for good. She tells him part of the story but when he learns she is going to die, he puts himself in her place somehow. Edited November 9, 2015 by chrisvee 1 Link to comment
chrisvee November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 (edited) I'm guessing Nimue's soul is the only one still tied to the Dark One, as the chalice made her immortal. Excalibur could maybe "cut" her away from it, freeing her body. That's all I got as to why she's in Storybrooke. Unless the curse brought her over as Granny, and the real one is tied up in the freezer. Nimue!Granny could have been listening to their conversations this whole time. Presumably Dark Nimue was killed by Dark One #2 with the dagger. Edited November 9, 2015 by chrisvee Link to comment
Souris November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 (edited) Merlin didn't go dark once he was tethered to the sword -- he's under compulsion because Arthur is holding the sword and Merlin's power is tied to it. ... Dark Emma plans to die but wants to leave Killian with Excalibur to wield for good. She tells him part of the story but when he learns she is going to die, he puts himself in her place somehow. Merlin didn't go dark when he was tethered to Excalibur because it wasn't attached to the dagger at the time. The darkness is attached to the dagger. Once the dagger is joined to Excalibur, I imagine the darkness is attached to the entire thing. Excalibur wasn't light or dark or anything when it was just a broken sword. I could believe that Emma plans to do something that would result in her death and that Hook takes her place. It's possible she wants Regina to ultimately kill her like she asked -- but in a way that would now keep Regina from becoming a Dark One because it would destroy the Darkness. But either Regina decides to kill Hook instead or Hook & Regina come up with it together. About there being a link between Merlin and Hook -- I had this random thought that maybe Nimue was pregnant when she became the Dark One, and Merlin is an ancestor of Hook. Edited November 9, 2015 by Souris Link to comment
YaddaYadda November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 (edited) About there being a link between Merlin and Hook -- I had this random thought that maybe Nimue was pregnant when she became the Dark One, and Merlin is an ancestor of Hook. Or how about she's straight up Hook's mother, and part of that family she lost in the village that was destroyed? They fudged up the timeline enough for that to fit. ETA - My friend who is even more obsessed with this stuff than I am found the same flower on Nimue's pink dress, that is also on Hook's massive ring. Since A&E said that hints to Hook's past on his rings, she's taking it to mean that this might be a hint it. I saw the flower, I can buy it. I think it's middlemist since they're set on the pink fabric of the dress. Edited November 9, 2015 by YaddaYadda 1 Link to comment
chrisvee November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 When Excalibur was forged it was not a weapon of light or dark -- it was capable of being used for either. Merlin was going to use it reforged to drive the darkness from Emma -- and the Darkness was trying to get her to use it to kill the light. I don't think it follows that the sword is dark when reforged. The question is who has to be killed with Excalibur to untether Dark Emma from the dagger forever. That's the Darkness's end game. Link to comment
Shanna Marie November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 Why did his rings, etc. become dark? Why isn't he wearing leather? I've always wondered why going dark requires a change in wardrobe. It made sense with Rumple because he went from a peasant to someone with power, so he started dressing more flamboyantly. But there's no reason a "dark" person must wear black or why something they always wear would change color. Why would Hook's jewelry change, unless maybe all his jewels are really mood rings? Would he go out and buy new black stuff to suit his soul? And he already always wears mostly black, so why would he change clothes to other kinds of black clothes? Rumple wears normal nice suits, so it doesn't seem as though Emma was at all required to start wearing skin-tight black leather. Really, going from black leather to what looks like black wool would be going toward the lighter side of things for Hook, based on the Hollywood darkness indicator dress code. 1 Link to comment
mjgchick November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 Did anyone catch Emma wielding Excalibur on an unconscious Hook? Is she jealous of Captain Floor again? 1 Link to comment
SiobhanJW November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 (edited) Did anyone catch Emma wielding Excalibur on an unconscious Hook? Is she jealous of Captain Floor again? Or is he a dead Hook? And she used her Dark Side too bring him back and that is why she became Dark Swan and why he was probably pulled to the Underworld. Edited November 9, 2015 by SiobhanJW 1 Link to comment
FierceAfroChick November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 And is that black smoke going into Hook or is she drawing it out of him? Link to comment
Souris November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 (edited) He looks dead. And it looks like she's drawing something dark out of him. Drawing Death out of him? She's not Dark Swan yet, so I think she goes full dark in order to save him. Either by this act she's doing here, or crushing someone's heart later. And somehow the sword gets put back in the stone. Edited November 10, 2015 by Souris 1 Link to comment
scenicbyway November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 The question is, does she try kissing him before she tries the sword? It looks like black wisps coming from the sword which would mean the she's wield magic vs. the black coming from him? Why are they back in the middlemist field? Is this Hook's new thing now? He dies in every land but the Enchanted Forest? This must mirror the fight Emma has with Arthur in the Storybrooke forest? I wonder if Zelena kills him, like she killed Neal? Link to comment
mjgchick November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 Would Dark Emma even want to work with Zelena if she killed Hook? I think Emma was serious about protecting Zelena. Link to comment
LizaD November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 (edited) Oh so maybe Hook's soul is already tethered to the sword in Camelot. We only got to see 1 side of the sword right? The names could be on the other side. Could it be like Cora's candle, a life for a life? Since Merlin is tethered to the sword, somehow she sacrifices him for Hook? Or maybe she merged them together like Rump did with Neal. Wouldn't that be a hoot? Technically Nimue is "inside" Emma and now Hook and Merlin are merged. Edited November 10, 2015 by LizaD 1 Link to comment
Hookian November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 This has been an amazing arc and whatever it is it's sealing the deal on the main couple being CS and Emma and Killian being true love. Either she saves him by tethering him to the sword which will make him immortal thus cheating death or she gives him half her heart. The lightness and she takes all the darkness. 3 Link to comment
scenicbyway November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 Oh so maybe Hook's soul is already tethered to the sword in Camelot. We only got to see 1 side of the sword right? The names could be on the other side. Could it be like Cora's candle, a life for a life? Since Merlin is tethered to the sword, somehow she sacrifices him for Hook? Or maybe she merged them together like Rump did with Neal. Wouldn't that be a hoot? Technically Nimue is "inside" Emma and now Hook and Merlin are merged. But if Hook's name was already on the sword, Rumple would've said something. It also looks like Emma is using Zelena to tether Hook to the sword in Storybrooke next week. I wonder if Arthur commands Merlin to kill Hook and Emma steps in? This would mirror Emma fighting Arthur in the Storybrooke forest because it looks like Hook is at that fight too? I suppose the overall point is that Emma goes fully dark because of her love for Hook and she's been buying time in Storybrooke? 1 Link to comment
YaddaYadda November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 Hook's name is not on the sword in the promo when Emma is standing in front of her parents and Regina. The sword has only Emma's name on it. 2 Link to comment
chrisvee November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 I think that's it -- I wonder if Emma had to kill Merlin as well? I think she likely put the sword in the stone herself -- her Plan B to get rid of her darkness in SB. Link to comment
PixiePaws1 November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 I also think that ring is coming back into the mix somehow. Link to comment
PixiePaws1 November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 (edited) I'm sure it will... which is part of the reason why Emma will feel so so guilty about what happens, since Killian gave up the one thing that ensured his survival to keep her safe, driving her to resort to drastic means to bring him back/save his life in the first place. Oh yes..girlfriend is carrying a LOT of guilt...as she already expressed to Merlin... Edited November 10, 2015 by PixiePaws1 Link to comment
YaddaYadda November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 I also think that ring is coming back into the mix somehow. I'm pretty certain it will come back in the mix during 5x08. Link to comment
mjgchick November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 I think everyone is getting their memories in this episode. A&E lied about everyone getting it their memories one by one. They must be related to I Marlene King. Link to comment
HoodlumSheep November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 That's an exciting promo image! Wonder if Killian'sname won't show up until he grabs the sword or something. Either that or she tethers it in the EF, it somehow gets untethered (like maybe the curse messes with things (like how Charming was going to croak), and then retethered? It's hard to tell. I need more info! *grabby hands* 1 Link to comment
InsertWordHere November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 I think Emma doesn't just cast the Curse. I think she breaks the rules of magic and undoes everything that happened in Camelot. Hence the sword being broken and Hook being alive. But she knows it won't last long so she has to get Hook tethered to the sword. Only thing It wouldn't explain is the mushroom and Merlin's message. Link to comment
OnceUponAJen November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 (edited) This is exciting! I need Emma to save Killian. I need Killian to find out what happened. I want it....give me all the things. I saw speculation that Killian jumps off the roof to prove that he's immmortal? Could be. Edited November 10, 2015 by OnceUponAJen Link to comment
YaddaYadda November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 (edited) I saw speculation that Killian jumps off the roof to prove that he's immmortal? Could be. It doesn't make sense to me. Why would he summon her for that? I wonder if the weird way Emma was looking at the sword means something. Was she looking for his name on it? Edited November 10, 2015 by YaddaYadda Link to comment
Souris November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 I wonder if Hook gets caught in the magical crossfire of the Emma and Merlin battle? Link to comment
mjgchick November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 (edited) Zelena's probably living the ultimate fan girls dream by tethering Hook and Emma. I'm kind of excited to see the Wicked Witch and the Dark Savior. ETA: Damn you Arthur. Emma just made a new friend and now they are about to blast each other with magic. Edited November 10, 2015 by mjgchick 1 Link to comment
Mathius November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 Zelena poofing her and Arthur away in green smoke made me realize that she most likely made/gave Arthur that viper poison during this point in time, even though Arthur doesn't remember when he actually uses it, which explains the green smoke making Grif's body vanish. You would think that would have gotten more of a surprised reaction out of Arthur. XD Link to comment
Souris November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 Here's a thought. Merlin can heal. If he's tethered to the sword, does that mean Emma could somehow access his powers via the sword and heal Hook with it? Link to comment
snarkastic November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 I wonder if Hook gets caught in the magical crossfire of the Emma and Merlin battle? Oooh, you mean like Emma is about to kill Merlin with her magic, but that would turn her fully Dark, so he steps in between trying to save her from that? Oops. Link to comment
Souris November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 (edited) Oooh, you mean like Emma is about to kill Merlin with her magic, but that would turn her fully Dark, so he steps in between trying to save her from that? Oops. That wasn't what I meant, but that would be awesome! (I was thinking more accidentally.) Though given that he appears tied to a tree during the fight, I don't think he can. (Unless he cuts rope with his hook.) Edited November 10, 2015 by Souris Link to comment
Rumsy4 November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 I just rewatched Nimue (I liked it even better the second time around). The arguments Nimue used to try and persuade Emma to kill Merlin seem significant. To paraphrase, she says that if a loved one tries to hold you back from being what you are, you need to not listen to them and kill them even if you love them. I think that's pretty much what Emma does when it comes to Hook in Camelot. Much as I would love to see a magical battle between Emma and Merlin, my heart is going to break if/when she kills him. :-( Link to comment
Souris November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 I just rewatched Nimue (I liked it even better the second time around). The arguments Nimue used to try and persuade Emma to kill Merlin seem significant. To paraphrase, she says that if a loved one tries to hold you back from being what you are, you need to not listen to them and kill them even if you love them. I think that's pretty much what Emma does when it comes to Hook in Camelot. I hope Emma doesn't take that advice to heart, because that was some crazy-ass, twisted bullshit. 4 Link to comment
PixiePaws1 November 10, 2015 Share November 10, 2015 (edited) I only had a quick look at the new promo but is Snow looking like she is deliberately standing between Killian and Emma...as if preventing Emma from getting to him.. ..something about this setup is saying Killian's about to get sacrificed ...will have a better look at home. Edited November 10, 2015 by PixiePaws1 Link to comment
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