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Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

regularlyleaded

By regularlyleaded
in Once Upon A Time

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HoodlumSheep

HoodlumSheep

(edited)

You know, I find myself unable to completely trust in the idea of 5b being hell/themed and Hades. I mean, look how they dooped people on Rumple's supposed mother. And they managed to keep Elsa a complete secret. Like, i know everything's set up perfectly, and they never bothered hiding the QoD for 4b (and the fact that it's only midseason)...but I'm still bracing myself for 5b to be Winnie the Pooh or something.

How do we know that that casting call isn't another fake-out?

I'm all for greek mythology, etc. but it everything seems too perfect. It's making me a little suspicious

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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Camera One
Camera One

When everyone realized Rumple and Regina weren't coming back, they had a big celebration and put on a cloaking spell so they can never be found or contacted ever again.

Curio
Curio

At least someone is freaking out over Emma's darkness. Keep giving a shit, Hook! You're pretty much the only one who does...

Serena
Serena

HER GRANDMA IS EMMA! Are they being serious with this?

PixiePaws1

PixiePaws1

absolutely. ..we could be getting our chain yanked and Adam's idea of 'hell' could be nothing more than not being able to find anything left that was 'special' about Emma to take from her and give to Regina..ok..

my bias my be showing just a smidgen.

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scenicbyway

scenicbyway

IMDb is listing Adam Croasdell as "Brennan Jones".  How reliable is this web site?

The actor has said his character's name isn't Davy, so Brennan is certainly a possibility.  I wonder if this means he was a fisherman?  All of the fish places where I live are Brennan's such and such.  Brennan also fits with Liam and Killian.

 

Thinking about Emma hoping Gold can hero up and pull the sword.  I wonder if she thinks she can trick Excalibur?  Both Gold and Hook have been villians, Hook is on the hero side now and Gold is neutral.  Besides having a shared past and close ages, they are both orphans.  Hook's dad abandoned him just like Pan abandoned Gold.  I still think we'll just see Papa Hook in flashback, so that we learn how Hook was abandoned and why his name ends up on Excalibur.

 

There has been a lot of speculation over whether Hook would give up being king to Guin and Lancelot.  The thing is, in the Sword in the Stone, Arthur didn't want to be king either, that's why he could pull the sword, he was pure of heart and didn't want it for himself.  Since the sword is in Storybrooke, it's more likely it would make him king of Storybrooke, which makes a lot more sense when you take into account it's in a different realm than the EF, Arrendele, and Camelot, etc.  Storybrooke is Emma and Killian's fairytale home, because they both came from different worlds to have a life there together.

 

As for the God-like figure being cast, sounds like the character will be coming to Storybrooke, ala the "Queens of Darkness."

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HoodlumSheep

HoodlumSheep

(edited)

The actor has said his character's name isn't Davy, so Brennan is certainly a possibility. I wonder if this means he was a fisherman? All of the fish places where I live are Brennan's such and such. Brennan also fits with Liam and Killian."

I can see it now...PLOT TWIST: Papa Hook isn't actually Davy Jones...Davy Jones is actually Killy's evil uncle...or grandaddy...or cousin. Take your pic.

Or, his full name is Brennan David Jones, and his nickname is Davy because he was named after his father and it's a way to avoid confusion...

Okay, I'll be quiet now.

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

 Since the sword is in Storybrooke, it's more likely it would make him king of Storybrooke, which makes a lot more sense when you take into account it's in a different realm than the EF, Arrendele, and Camelot, etc.  Storybrooke is Emma and Killian's fairytale home, because they both came from different worlds to have a life there together.

 

These are my thoughts exactly. Excalibur is being pulled from the stone in Storybrooke, therefore, it has nothing to do with Camelot.

 

Plus, honestly, it took Emma how long to accept her role as Savior. Hook would care less about any kind of titles. Storybrooke already has a mayor, and a bunch of leaders, he would just be one of many, which I think he would be perfectly content with at the end of the day. Let's not forget that his rebellion began because of a king.

 

I saw that it was Liam and Joana's last day on set yesterday, so I wonder if Arthur goes home with Excalibur, or if he decides to just abandon the sword altogether. At the end of the day, it's how he leads that matters, not a stupid sword.

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kili

kili

But this really bugs me. He's a God. How do you take on a God and defeat him?

 

This is a show where FairyTales are real. Can't they twist Greek gods the same way? Gods could be powerful people and our versions of the story could be to make them more powerful than they really were. Our stories clearly got the epic love story of Robin Hood and Mariane wrong (he's actually a feckless frat boy ne'er do well and he never much loved Marianne anyway and she was the real Robin Hood (the real source of the code)). We mistakingly thought that The Evil Queen hated Snow White because she was prettier than her (when really it was because Snow committed the unforgiveable crime of telling a secret to TEQ's manipulative mother).  We have Jack being a brave male Giant killer when she was really a genoicidal thief.

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Serena

Serena

Yeah, plus how do we know he needs to be "defeated"? Like, the Underworld needs to exist because dead people need a place to go and it needs a ruler. If Regina/Hook/Emma/whoever is dead and the Nevengers want to go take them back, they need to NOT succeed because it's straight up stupid (also, because they've been saying "no, Neal is super dead and can never come back" for years, and now when it's Regina/Hook/Emma/whoever who's dead, that doesn't apply anymore?). However, if it's not the Nevengers who go to the Underworld, but Hades who's coming with ill intentions, I think it would be believable for them to realize they can't do it and go ask Zeus (or whoever) for help. That could be a belieavable way to structure the season: divide the group in two, one who goes on a quest to find Zeus, the other who tries to minimize the damage until he can be retrieved.

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mjgchick

mjgchick

Yeah I rather Hades come to SB instead of one of them being dead. Bringing someone back from the dead has already happened on another show and it only further destroyed the character doing it. Having any of the Nevengers bring back Emma or who ever is just going to have the Neal Stans, Graham Stans, Cora Stans, etc... all wondering why not them.

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Pangea

Pangea

It just occurred to me that Mulan's return might give us some additional information. We still don't know how she and Aurora saved Phillip. Maybe they retrieved him from the Underworld.

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Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

Weren't there stories in Greek mythology about wily humans being able to pull one over on the gods? The Greek gods weren't infallible deities. They were powerful beings with a lot of human frailties. Though I don't expect this show to necessarily explore the "seriously, could NOT keep it in his pants for five seconds" weakness that was so common among the gods.

 

I do think that there are scenarios in which there might be a reason to retrieve someone from the Underworld without it necessarily meaning that all people who died previously could have been saved the same way, but it might be more interesting for some kind of gate to have been opened, allowing someone from the Underworld to come to town. On the other hand, that gives us the typical "villain appears in Storybrooke, is defeated at the last second after heroes spend entire arc running around like idiots, life goes on exactly as before" structure we've seen a few too many times before.

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Mathius

Mathius

(edited)

From filming spoilers, it sounds like Arthur, Gwen, Merida, and Violet all go home together. 

 

So as many predicted, Arthur gets redeemed. I'm just worried as to how they'll do it.

Edited by Mathius
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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

(edited)

Guin ending up with Lancelot would not be a good ending IMO. Lance seemed more in love with Guin than she with her. If at the end of the arc Arthur cedes the throne to Guin and vows to follow her, I will be satisfied.

 

From filming spoilers, it sounds like Arthur, Gwen, Merida, and Violet all go home together.

 

So, Violet is not imaginary. Nor dead. Phew. 

 

Merlin is MIA too, and if he ends up dead, that makes two black men from Camelot.  Wonderful.

 

Yeah--the tread is rather disturbing. Still hoping Lance is alive.

Edited by Rumsy4
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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

The difference between Merlin and Lancelot is that Merlin can cross realms, he doesn't need a portal or anything like that, plus he has a vacation house in Storybrooke, so it's not like he's not sort of home, especially if it's his pre-Dark Curse that created Storybrooke.

 

Lancelot...what if Lancelot never made it to Storybrooke, period? I don't think they'll have either Gwen or Arthur crush his heart. You can't redeem Arthur if that happens during the missing 6 weeks.

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Zuleikha

Zuleikha

Or I guess Dr. Facilier (spelling?) from princess and a frog could work too. I don't know if they could squeeze a whole story arc out of that story though.
I haven't seen The Princess and a Frog. Is Dr. Facilier a version of Baron Samedi? Because the Distinguished Gentleman description sounds a lot more like Baron Samedi than Hades to me, and IIRC, Tiana and Jasmine are the only Disney princesses who haven't appeared on Once at all.
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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

The gods could be tricked, by each other and humans, but there were often serious consequences so the one doing the tricking needed to be careful. The main thing that would keep a human safe after tricking a god was having another God on his/her side to offer protection.

If 5b explores the fallibility of the gods, with some trickery on the part of the humans, then it could work.

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PixiePaws1

PixiePaws1

if they go the route of someone's soul has been separated from their body by supernatural means - say a wibbly-wobbly sword with magical plot device properties, and the freely floating soul was taken/stolen/volunteered to take someone else's place (Killian in place of Emma!) in the Underworld but technically the body isn't quite dead (but time is running out to reunite soul & body) that gets around the 'dead is dead' law.

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

that gets around the 'dead is dead' law

 

Except when dead is dead applies to the characters they really want it to apply to. 

 

David should be dead is dead, and Robin should be dead is dead. David lives with half a heart, and the Guardians of the Galaxy cheap knock off saved Regina from trading her life in for Robin's. 

 

Technically, David and Robin should be dead is dead, but they're not.

 

Zelena traded Marian in, and she gets the added bonus of a baby.

 

I don't think anyone is going in the Underworld as much as the Underworld is coming to them, and Robin being alive, even though he shouldn't be is a pretty good start for that, because technically, he should be deader than dead at this point.  

 

Plus, I'm still grappling with Emma's line from 5x02, when she told yelled at Regina about the whole "Now life is precious to you?" bit. 

 

I don't think we're done with that.

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PixiePaws1

PixiePaws1

(edited)

maybe Killian's soul/heart is forfeit or more likely he has it back on some sort of weird temporary basis until he can save Emma from the Darkness or he gave up his heart in Camelot to save her once before but she did something to get it back and as long as she remains the Dark One then Killian gets to stay out of the Underworld but someone breaks the deal and the DG comes to collect. ...something like that.

Edited by PixiePaws1
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Souris

Souris

If that TVLine spoiler about a fall finale death refers to Hook, it's going to be a BRUTAL hiatus, because it said the finale would end with it looking like a permanent death, and Matt had conflicting info about whether the death would stick or not. I do not want to live in that world/fandom with a seemingly dead Hook for three months. As if the fandom isn't a snarling pit of ship vipers as it is….

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PixiePaws1

PixiePaws1

Just no....!!! Not to mention how Emma will feel....

I will have to find a safe deep dark hole to hide in with a huge stockpile of chocolate.

I am clinging to that new writer's tweet a while back saying 'happy tears'...and I am saying it on repeat over here in my little land of denial.

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

If that TVLine spoiler about a fall finale death refers to Hook, it's going to be a BRUTAL hiatus, because it said the finale would end with it looking like a permanent death, and Matt had conflicting info about whether the death would stick or not. I do not want to live in that world/fandom with a seemingly dead Hook for three months. As if the fandom isn't a snarling pit of ship vipers as it is….

Is there a link for this? I must've missed something.

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

Thanks for posting.

 

I doubt it has anything to do with Once. I can start a whole list on various shows, with characters that should just die and stay dead. 

 

For Once, I find it just seems too much to kill off Hook, then bring him back. Been there, done that, if anything. Same with Rumple. He's already died once. I guess there's always Belle...Regina still hasn't paid the price, so Robin should technically not be alive (I will fight anyone who says otherwise!), David, half a heart.

 

You know, I actually just realized how little I care, because Once should re-name itself As Once Turns, Once in Our Lives, Once Hospital (probably why they need Whale back!), Once and Restless.

 

Expecting a "whose the daddy" storyline any day now. Which princess will sleep with two different dudes in a very limited timeframe, find out she's pregnant, and not know who the father is. I mean we have baby by rape, so...yeah.

 

You know what they should do? I know! An amnesia storyline! 

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Curio

Curio

Yeah, there's no way that blind item is referring to Hook. He might be the male co-lead of the show, but the ladies are still way ahead of him in terms of importance. If anything, that blind item would have to be talking about Emma, Regina, or Snow.

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shipperx

shipperx

The gods could be tricked, by each other and humans, but there were often serious consequences so the one doing the tricking needed to be careful. The main thing that would keep a human safe after tricking a god was having another God on his/her side to offer protection.

If 5b explores the fallibility of the gods, with some trickery on the part of the humans, then it could work.

Orpheus tried to lead his wife Eurydice out of Hades, so in Geco-Roman mythology someone tried. And Hades not only wasn't the devil he wasn't even particularly dastardly. He was simply the lord of the dead. It wasn't a place of torment in Greco-Roman mythology. ( in Disney, he was a villain though.). Then again I am probably influences by Roberta Gellis' novel re-telling of several myths-- including the Minotaur, Eurydice, and the story of Hades and Persephone where Hades was the romantic hero of the tale and Demeter a hyper-controlling mother-in-law.

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Souris

Souris

(edited)

I am clinging to that new writer's tweet a while back saying 'happy tears'...and I am saying it on repeat over here in my little land of denial.

 

She didn't say "happy tears." She said the crying was "the good kind." Writers love angst, so she'd probably think some tragic, sacrificial death would be "good crying."

 

I think Hook could be counted as a "co-lead" on the show. I think any of Emma, Regina, Rumple & Hook would qualify as "co-lead." Co-star could be any of a number of co-stars, so IMO co-lead could mean the same.

Edited by Souris
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OnceUponAJen

OnceUponAJen

They could portray Death/Hades in a way similar to Piers Anthony's Incarnations of Immortality series. In "On a Pale Horse" Death was potrayed as an office that is occupied by someone who manages to kill the former occupant of the office. Kind of like the Dark One.

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retrograde

retrograde

I think Hook could be counted as a "co-lead" on the show. I think any of Emma, Regina, Rumple & Hook would qualify as "co-lead." Co-star could be any of a number of co-stars, so IMO co-lead could mean the same.

I guess you could technically call him that in the very general sense that this is sort of an ensemble show. But the thing with blind items is you have to put yourself in the position of the writer who does know who the blind item is about and are thus able to very accurately describe that person. If you were trying to describe Hook without saying his name, is that how you would describe him? I think you would call him a "main character" or maybe a "major character" (though the guy gets very few of his own storylines) or you would start with "fan favorite." But "co-lead" would be a really weird choice of words. I think you would use "co-lead" for a show that genuinely has two leads: Castle, Supernatural, Bones, Sleepy Hollow, etc.

 

"Given the importance this particular character has to the series, it’s tough to imagine that it would" would also be an odd thing to say about Hook, I think. Sure you could say it, in the sense that Hook is important to Emma and obviously she'd be pretty crushed if he died and she is the main character. And I know a lot of people around here would be mad if he died. But really, the show could go on pretty easily without him. I think you'd be more likely to say "Given how popular the character is..." 

 

If anything, the description would fit Regina or Rumple much more accurately. But I still think it's far more likely to be something like Castle.

 

Fans will always twist BIs into their chosen show, but as a rule of thumb, I've found that if it doesn't immediately and obviously fit without some twisting, then you're safe. As they say: when you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras.

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Rosiejuliemom

Rosiejuliemom

First, if Hades is like his Disney counterpart, bring him on. Hades makes the best gifsets. Second, if this show wasn't already overrun with too many damn characters I would DIE to have Meg on it.

 

 

If they are going to go with Hercules, can I please get James Woods as Hades? Pretty please? Throw in Danny DeVito as Phil and I'll never say a bad thing about this show ever again.

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Hookian

Hookian

(edited)

I think Jennifer's pic confirms it. Hook dies, sacrificing himself for Emma and they end the season on their way to the Underworld to save him. Hook's not gonna really die on this show, not gonna happen.

 

Hey at least now we know that Emma will go to the ends of the Earth for Killian.

 

They've also already confirmed Hook centric episode in 5B.

Edited by Hookian
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Hookian

Hookian

(edited)

Yep Hook is taken to the Underworld and basically means 5B is Hook-centered. Is anybody else shocked, his dad was introduced in the mid-season finale? And he's gonna play a role going forward. I kind of feel he may be Zeus or some other immortal being. I know you all suffer PTSD from 4x11 but this is real.  

 

God I can't believe how CS/Hook S5 is. Such a big difference from S4.

Edited by Hookian
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pezgirl7

pezgirl7

Gotta say I'm a bit sad. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. I really don't want them to leave off pretending like he's really dead. I want to see a glimpse of him in hell or something in the closing moments of the finale. I'm sure he'll have something snarky to say to Hades or whomever.

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Hookian

Hookian

Gotta say I'm a bit sad. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. I really don't want them to leave off pretending like he's really dead. I want to see a glimpse of him in hell or something in the closing moments of the finale. I'm sure he'll have something snarky to say to Hades or whomever.

I don't think they'll end the finale without us knowing he's alive. Not to mention the promo for 12 will air and likely will feature Hades which is a dead giveaway they're going to The Underworld.

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