Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[YaddaYadda]

So, what are the chances that Rumple's mother ran away with Hook's father? 

 

I am fucking terrified of that.  It's not just the weirdness factor that would make Hook Neal's uncle and whatever.  

 

 

 

Also, how much bravery was Rumple supposed to absorb from someone who seems to have disappeared when he was pretty little?

I always thought Baelfire was very much his mother's son and he barely knew her.  He became more like his father when he grew up.  And Emma is a lot like her parents when it comes to wanting to do the right thing and they had zero influence on that part of her personality (let's not go into the whole eggnapping and them taking the darkness out of her which was a clumsy attempt at setting up season 5).  And we know nothing about Hook's parents, but his father abandoning him on a ship to escape sort of makes him a coward and we know that Hook is the furthest thing from that.

 

With Rumple I think that him being labeled a coward by Milah and his village after he maimed himself is really what turned him into a coward at the end of the day. He was happy to be going to war, but the Seer mind-fucked him with her prophecy.  He wasn't necessarily a coward but he wasn't a soldier either.  Did he ever hold a sword before he was shipped off to the front?  They were drafting every able body they could find, including twelve year-olds to go fight.  By the time "The Crocodile" rolled around, Rumple was in full on coward mode, I'm just not sure he was always like that.  

 

Alright...done defending Rumple.  I still hate his guts after this past season and I doubt anything will make me love him again.

Edited June 22, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[mjgchick]

If the writers are trying to tell us that the heroes are no better than the villains with this story for Emma then they will end up failing. Emma turned into the dark one because she sacrificed EVERYTHING for her loved ones. What this story tells me so far is that the heroes will forever get the Starks treatment on this show.

[YaddaYadda]

What this story tells me so far is that the heroes will forever get the Starks treatment on this show.

 

And we'll be the North, we'll never forget.

 

I think the show goes to extreme lengths to justify a villains actions or their descent into it.  I get that people can be the product of their environment (and they illustrated that very well with James and David for instance).  It would be nice for them to be well teenage Emma was a product of her environment (and even with what they've shown, she was kind and loving and what she did, she did in order to survive) and adult Emma managed to rise above that and when she found her family and Henry and Hook (later) it became much better and because of everything she has now and how good her life was once she acknowledged all those parts, she will rise above the darkness that lives inside of her now.

 

I still don't buy the whole she's going the worst evil that's ever evilled.  If anything, Emma should be shown fighting that because of who she is and what she is. They have to make her sacrifice count for something.  She'll now have darkness inside of her for the first time in her life.  One thing Emma is not is weak.  She's had her moments of not believing, but she isn't weak.

 

Am I the only one not looking forward to hearing the words villain, hero, happy ending.  

[LizaD]

 

What this story tells me so far is that the heroes will forever get the Starks treatment on this show.

I'll take my reply to Once vs other stories thread but I don't think this is true at all. The "heroes" on Once should wish they were given the "Starks" treatment, dead ones and Sansa included. At least those characters have integrity and dignity even if they are stupid at times.

 

I'm guessing Rump's mom is going to have history with Merlin and the flashbacks are with him and baby Rump. Did they specify she would only be in flashbacks? If not she could still be alive.

[Souris]

I was talking to someone who had a meet & greet with Colin in Paris, and she said he said that they don't know what happened to Emma and think she's dead. That just makes things even sadder if it's true, doesn't it? Maybe that means they're not even trying to find her anymore.

 

It was in a private message, so I don't have anything to link.

[Rumsy4]

That would be on par with their general stupidity if they assume that Emma is dead. But one would think that by now they have seen enough people disappearing through portals and not being dead (Rumple, Neal, Lily). :-p

[YaddaYadda]

If they think Emma has died, then it means they're moving the timeline ahead.

 

I'm having a really hard time seeing them giving up on finding proof that she has died.  I mean between Snow and David and how hope springs eternal and Henry and Hook, I just find it difficult to think that they would just give up and go about their business.  It would be just odd and kind of heart breaking.  I know Snowing have their BDO, but Henry and Killian?  Come on!  I'm sort of having a flash of 4x02 when Emma was trapped in the ice cave and how David and Hook wouldn't give up on trying to save her, which makes it even harder to believe for me.

 

I know they're still writing episode 1, but the press release after season 4 was over was about everyone trying to cope with Emma being the Dark One.

 

My post is all over the place.

[Curio]

Maybe Colin worded it poorly, or there was a language barrier miscommunication, because I'm also having a really hard time believing they'd go with an everyone-thinks-Emma-is-dead plot. It just makes no sense. Why would her name be on the dagger if she's dead? Wouldn't the dagger be blank, then? Or do they think her sacrifice got rid of the Dark One Curse once and for all? Didn't we already have a plot where Belle knew Rumple was alive after he killed Pan because the dagger was left behind?

 

Unfortunately, I have absolutely no faith in these writers, so I could easily see them turning everyone into idiots and forcing them all to think Emma is dead. If they do go in that direction, my one prayer is that they don't make Killian "move on" with someone else. I need at least one person in Storybrooke to be the crazy conspiracist person who still thinks Emma is alive, and even though everyone has already given up searching for her, he still goes into his cabin in the Jolly Roger, drinks some rum, and reads up on Dark One theories until the wee hours of the morning.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Curio

[Souris]

Maybe Colin worded it poorly, or there was a language barrier miscommunication, because I'm also having a really hard time believing they'd go with an everyone-thinks-Emma-is-dead plot. It just makes no sense. Why would her name be on the dagger if she's dead? Wouldn't the dagger be blank, then? Or do they think her sacrifice got rid of the Dark One Curse once and for all? Didn't we already have a plot where Belle knew Rumple was alive after he killed Pan because the dagger was left behind?

 

Unfortunately, I have absolutely no faith in these writers, so I could easily see them turning everyone into idiots and forcing them all to think Emma is dead. If they do go in that direction, my one prayer is that they don't make Killian "move on" with someone else. I need at least one person in Storybrooke to be the crazy conspiracist person who still thinks Emma is alive, and even though everyone has already given up searching for her, he still goes into his cabin in the Jolly Roger, drinks some rum, and reads up on Dark One theories until the wee hours of the morning.

 

With our luck and their tendencies, that one person will be Regina. Brave and pure Regina, the only person who's true to Emma and who believes in her. That's what I'm kind of expecting now, TBH. And Killian is now shacking up with Lily. (OK, I'm just snarking on that latter one. I think.)

 

I had those same questions, too. It really makes no sense for them to think she's dead given the show's history. Which I guess guarantees that's how the show will go. But it does suggest a time jump if true. 

[YaddaYadda]

Didn't we already have a plot where Belle knew Rumple was alive after he killed Pan because the dagger was left behind?

 

No.  Rumple disappeared with his dagger after he killed Pan.  It was the straw spun into gold that gave her hope that he was alive (I think that was in Quiet Minds). 

 

If they do go in that direction, my one prayer is that they don't make Killian "move on" with someone else.

 

That would be completely out of character.  So this guy who had a hard time moving on from the woman he called his first love, a woman he mourned for some 200-300 years would just move on within days/weeks/months from the woman he called his happy ending?  He was fucking celibate during the missing year even though he had no hope of ever seeing her again.

 

The other thing that would be out of character is him giving up on her now.  He never gave up on her.  

 

There will not be enough WTF moments for me if they decide to move him on.  I really don't care for a Walsh situation.  It broke his heart even though he knew she didn't have her memories, what would it do to hers especially since she's counting on him (and her parents) to actually save her?  Emma Swan who says the only person who saves me is me is counting on the people she loves to come for her and bring her back to herself.  Is this a ridiculous plan so that Emma thinks she's all alone and can give into the darkness much easier?

 

I'm gonna sit here and refuse to believe that these bozos are going to write everyone thinking that Emma has died.  Absolutely and stubbornly refuse to believe that.  

 

Hopefully whatever we get out of ComiCon will shed some light on this.

[OnceUponAJen]

It doesn't make sense that they would assume her dead, because the last thing she said to Snowing was to ask them to remove the darkness from her as heroes this time. It's hard for me to believe they would see the dagger and shrug their shoulders over it, even if they can't find her immediately.

[YaddaYadda]

It doesn't make sense that they would assume her dead, because the last thing she said to Snowing was to ask them to remove the darkness from her as heroes this time. It's hard for me to believe they would see the dagger and shrug their shoulders over it, even if they can't find her immediately.

 

They knew Henry's location from that globe even though he was no longer in Storybrooke.  Now, I can see them figuring out where she is but having no way of getting to her because the convenient door to Arendelle was a one time thing, there are no magic beans, they can't summon her with the dagger because she's in another realm, the Apprentice has died and he can't open a portal for them...but mermaids can open underwater portals.  Ariel can do it, she brought Poseidon through one and Ursula brought the JR from the EF through a portal she opened with her tentacles using a rigging from the ship and she would have been able to bring the whole thing even if it wasn't bottled.  And they can be summoned with a conk shell, across realms.  

 

I swear, this show makes my head hurt.  I'm guessing there will be a Storybrooke filming when the guys get back to work.  We're like less than two weeks away from that.  Where has time gone (this counts as a spoiler because I have no clue ;)

[Curio]

Rumple disappeared with his dagger after he killed Pan. It was the straw spun into gold that gave her hope that he was alive (I think that was in Quiet Minds).

 

Ah, that's it. Although, I looked up the exact wording Belle used, and she seemed to be reaching even harder for a desperate excuse to believe Rumple was alive:

 

Belle: "I heard you talking to David about Rumple. You know, we never saw his knife. I think we can get him back."

 

So if Belle thought Rumple could be brought back when she didn't see a knife, why would everyone think Emma is dead when they have physical evidence of a knife with her name on it? It just doesn't make any sense.

 

It doesn't make sense that they would assume her dead, because the last thing she said to Snowing was to ask them to remove the darkness from her as heroes this time. It's hard for me to believe they would see the dagger and shrug their shoulders over it, even if they can't find her immediately.

 

Yeah, the entire set up was Emma asking her parents to take the darkness away from her this time. Why would she say that and then immediately die? I think that fan misheard Colin or something.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Curio

[RadioGirl27]

The actors don't know anything about next season. Even Jennifer, who is supposed to be main character in this storyline, knows nothing about it and she has been contradicting herself when talking about Dark Emma (she is going to be the same, she is going to be the opposite). So I'm going to take what that fan says with a grain of salt until it's confirmed.

And really, this "they think Emma is dead" makes no sense unless we have a enormous time jump, where they have been searching for her for years, and, even then, I can't imagine Hook giving up without a body. But, hey, it's TS, TW, and Hook is the only character they haven't messed up yet so, I wouldn't put pass them to have him act so OOC and move on with someone else.

[Souris]

If they think Emma is dead, since she's the Savior, would that mean she'd arise in the third ep?

[LizaD]

I'm betting Rump's mom was the original human Merlin tethered the DO to. If her casting call is accurate she probably volunteered ala Emma cause we know this show loves their parallels. If not, then Merlin the big baddie screwed Rump's family over. And that probably makes Merlin, Snow's great great great grandaddy, the family line where all evil originated from.

[Souris]

Just in case anybody doubted that the Dark!Emma arc would be All About Regina saving her:

 

“We asked Lana something about Regina’s reaction to Dark!Emma and she explained their roles could be reversed in season 5.“

“I think Regina’s role now is to be the hero, and in some way…the savior too. I think she’ll help Emma, that she’ll feel it’s her responsability to do it, but I don’t think she feels guilty about what’s happened. Regina didn’t force Emma to do what she did, Emma did a choice. And now Regina will make HER choice: she’ll decide to help Emma to overcome this situation”.

 

I know it's Lana, and Lana makes everything about her and Regina all the time, but I'm sure she's been told in broad terms what Regina's role will be.

 

Yay.

[YaddaYadda]

but I don’t think she feels guilty about what’s happened

 

Well, Regina never feels guilty about anything she's ever done.  She doesn't feel guilty for killing I don't know how many people, including her father.  She doesn't feel guilty for keeping people in a time warp for 28 years, so why should she feel guilty that Emma sacrificed herself for the good of all and saved her worthless life.  

 

I'm sure the people who actually love Emma will be racked with guilt because they'll be all about how they could have done more while Regina goes on with her life.  Emma nearly put her relationship with Hook on hold because she felt bad for wrecking Regina's relationship with Robin by bringing Marian from the past.  What I'm getting is that Regina's life is going to go on as normal.  Her and her boyfriend of two weeks will be living together, raising the boys together while they wait for Zelena to spawn so that they can raise that baby together too.

 

Whatever...and I sure as hell hope that Regina will try and help because this is her fault.  If she hadn't gone on that silly quest for the Author, hadn't told Rumple about it, the Dark One would still have been inside of him (likely taken over Rumple completely).  

 

As far as the whole Regina is the new Savior.  Lana needs to really stop talking.  I know it's a huge fantasy, but Emma is the Savior, that's who she is.  So, please, lady...find another title.

Edited June 26, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Curio]

I think Regina’s role now is to be the hero, and in some way…the savior too. I think she’ll help Emma, that she’ll feel it’s her responsability to do it, but I don’t think she feels guilty about what’s happened. Regina didn’t force Emma to do what she did, Emma did a choice.

 

Please, please, please...just no to Regina being a new "savior." I don't care if Charming gives another town speech about how they all need to become saviors of some kind to save Emma, but I swear to Granny's lasagne if the writers give Regina alone a new shiny title of "savior," I might have to give up watching this show live and only watch Youtube clips from now on.

 

And yes, Regina should feel guilty for the "choice" Emma made. Sure, Regina didn't force Emma to do anything, but constantly yelling at Emma at the beginning of Season 4, being a bitch and telling Emma that it was her fault for ruining her life because of Marian—even though Regina should have killed her in the original timeline, yelling at her throughout all of 4x05 and making Emma feel like shit, and ignoring Henry were all big factors in making Emma feel guilty enough about what she had done during her time travel adventure to drop everything and promise to give Regina a happy ending. But I suppose it's in character for her to not feel guilty about anything, so whatever.

[RadioGirl27]

This is the original link to the interview (in Italian). Lana tends to exaggerate and there are a lot of conditional tenses in that interview, but I'm pretty sure that she is going to have a larger role than Hook, Snow, Charming or Henry in saving Emma. She is A&E favourite character and Lana usually gets what she wants from them, so of course she is not going to be sidelined. Those who think that this DarkEmma storyline is going to end with a TLK between Hook and Emma are going to be so, so disappointed. 

[Serena]

Lancelot is coming back.

 

That Italian Lana interview is a rollercoaster of lol-worthy quotes! Amongst others, Regina "tried hard to make amends to the people she hurt" (sure) and in season 4 she was "lonely and abandoned" (lolwut).

Edited June 26, 2015 by Serena

[YaddaYadda]

I hate knocking actors, but Lana needs to knock it off.  She might have felt lonely, but she was far from abandoned.  She turned her back on her son who was miserable because of a dude.

 

It was just a matter of time before they announced Lancelot's return.

[Curio]

“Oh man, you can’t go to Camelot and not see Lancelot,” executive producer Edward Kitsis told EW when conducting our special Comic-Con edition of Hot Seat, which will be out the week of the big event in San Diego.

 

Translation: "We'll see Lancelot for one flashback episode, and then drop him like a hot potato once he's served our plot's purpose."

Edited June 26, 2015 by Curio

[Shanna Marie]

Translation: "We'll see Lancelot for one flashback episode, and then drop him like a hot potato once he's served our plot's purpose."

Alternative translation: "We're so excited about Lancelot and all the other Camelot characters! Until it comes time to actually write the episodes they're in, and by then we'll have been distracted by some other shiny thing and we'll forget why we wanted them in the first place, so their storyline will just kind of fizzle out with no real purpose."

[orza]

I hate knocking actors, but Lana needs to knock it off.  She might have felt lonely, but she was far from abandoned.  She turned her back on her son who was miserable because of a dude.

Lana's take on her character is just as valid as anyone else's. There is no reason she needs to "knock it off". Part of her job is to promote the show and her character, as well as promote herself and her career. That's how the business works.

[formerlyfreedom]

Just a reminder - Lancelot's return was announced in Entertainment Weekly, which means it's out there in the news, and not an actual spoiler - the Media topic is where discussion on that should occur.

[mjgchick]

lol I can't take Lana seriously anymore.

 

I hope Sinqua's shirtless. That is all.

[YaddaYadda]

Link

 

When will you be posting #EWHotSeat for Once Upon a Time? — Andy
You’ll have to wait patiently because Hot Seat won’t be coming out until Comic-Con. But I’m feeling generous, so how about a little sneak peek? When I asked the guys whether Zelena’s baby will be born this season, EP Edward Kitsis answered with a definitive…. yes! Poor Regina. That is one messed up family tree.

 

 

I'm sure we already all knew that anyway...

[Curio]

Damn. And here I was hoping we would have a time jump and skip all of that baby nonsense.

[scarynikki12]

At least this confirms that the season will be longer than the usual one week. 

[Rumsy4]

Hmmm... I don't think this means no time-jump. I expect there will be one either before S5 starts, or after the 5A finale, just in time for Zelena to have her baby in 5B. ugh...

[daxx]

Since watching Emma mwahaha for months would be bad TV I am assuming the time jump is prior to 5-1 or during. I am hoping for that, have you seen Jared lately?

[RadioGirl27]

Hmmm... I don't think this means no time-jump. I expect there will be one either before S5 starts, or after the 5A finale, just in time for Zelena to have her baby in 5B. ugh...

Yeah, I expect a six months time jump at some point next season, probably at the beginning. That way Emma has been the Dark One for six months, alone somewhere, without her family to help her, while the rest of the characters are desperately looking for her. With this, Zelena can be ready to give birth in the half season finale, setting the story for 5B.

[KingOfHearts]

I imagine they'll parallel Little Wicked's birth with BDO's from 3x20. Irony and all that, you know? I'm not sure if she'll have it in the premiere or closer to the finale. I perhaps hope it's the former so we could skip some of the boring angst.

[daxx]

I imagine they'll parallel Little Wicked's birth with BDO's from 3x20. Irony and all that, you know? I'm not sure if she'll have it in the premiere or closer to the finale. I perhaps hope it's the former so we could skip some of the boring angst.

Oh, I hope she's not pregnant the whole season, just ugh.

[Mari]

Yeah, I expect a six months time jump at some point next season, probably at the beginning. That way Emma has been the Dark One for six months, alone somewhere, without her family to help her, while the rest of the characters are desperately looking for her. 

Depending on where they are with the Dark One Emma story when/if a time jump happened, it would also allow them to have Emma do mysterious evil deeds that cause plot issues later, and would allow for Dark One Emma flashbacks as needed later in the season.  (Or season 6, should season 6 happen.)

[RadioGirl27]

Interview with Jennifer Morrison (in French and English). She talks a bit about Dark Emma. I don't know if we can consider it an spoiler, or just her vision of how the things are going to go, but I put it here just in case. If not, feel free to move it somewhere else.
 
I find this interesting, and, if we extrapolate it to Rumple, worrying (and disgusting):
 

LBA: How do you think this will affect the relationships that she’s built with her parents, Regina, her son, Hook…

Jennifer: I think no matter what, it’s going to be a strain. Clearly because she’s not gonna be the person that she truly is but that being said, they know that she’s tethered to the darkness and that the darkness itself is an entity that’s overcome her. So it’s not as if Emma is actually making these terrible decisions. She isn’t actually this person. They need to find a way to save her from needing to be tethered to this darkness. So, I think they will have a self awareness and awareness of the fact that this isn’t actually who she is but there will be a strain in the sense that they won’t be able to anticipate what she might do or what she might be capable of because it’s so different from who she truly is.

This has been my fear with this storyline since the beginning, that they are going to use it to justify Rumple ("it wasn't him, it was the darkness. Rumple is just another victim" ugh)

Edited June 28, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[myril]

Call the Exorcist! Or do we better call the Ghostbusters?

[Souris]

TVLine:

 

Any scoop on Once Upon a Time? I’m not particular, I’ll take anything! –Allison
I’m hearing that the season opener, not unexpectedly, will pick up right where the finale left off, with Emma having vanished after taunting the disembodied Darkness with the Dark One’s dagger. Where exactly the Savior was transported to, however, thus far remains a closely guarded secret (but hey, that’s what Comic-Con is for, amiright?) Also, it will be sooner rather than later that we meet King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table.

 

(Uh, I'm not sure I'd call what she did "taunting.")

Edited June 29, 2015 by Souris

[YaddaYadda]

I guess that settles that then.  No time jump.  If there is a significant one, I'm guessing it will be after the mid-season finale.  I hope Emma doesn't get stuck in Camelot playing supporting character to a bunch of new ones.

[OnceUponAJen]

I kind of suspected no time jump. Didn't the spoilers for the finale have Hook anguished saying, "Emma!" right after she disappeared? Since we didn't see that in the finale, I thought it might have been filmed for the S5 opener

[Souris]

I don't understand WHY Emma would end up in Camelot. Unless she's now so powerful she can realm-jump simply because she wants to and wanted to find Merlin immediately. Rumple didn't realm-jump when he became the Dark One. So her getting deposited in some other realm doesn't make any sense to me.

[YaddaYadda]

They can spin it any way they want at this point since they never delved into the Dark One's mythology (and completely mislead us in believing it was something it isn't).

 

I wonder if the clip at SDCC will have anything to do with what's going to happen on the show.  The 4B clip they showed was completely misleading and had nothing to do with what happened.

[retrograde]

I wonder if the clip at SDCC will have anything to do with what's going to happen on the show.  The 4B clip they showed was completely misleading and had nothing to do with what happened.

Katmtan reckons JMo did a "creepy" photoshoot at the end of filming. Not sure if they also filmed some stuff. But unless they're going to do some secret filming before the official start date of July 8, surely they must have filmed any footage they're showing last season? Could be Dark Emma, but could equally just be like Rumple waking up or something.

 

I can't believe filming starts again next week. I've missed you guys!

[Camera One]

That whole promo with Emma and the Villains/Queens of Darkness was misleading as hell.  

 

Try rewatching it after 4B, and it's almost funny:

Edited June 30, 2015 by Camera One

[Souris]

Yeah, if the promo is something like that was, it'll be basically meaningless and just for "mood." They probably wanted to do that because they knew they'd have only a day or two of filming done by SDCC.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Souris

[LizaD]

How much damage is "Dark" Emma gonna be able to do in 3 days? Cause you know an entire half-season usually lasts a couple of days max for Once. Maybe the "picking up right where they left off" scene is a flashback? Jen herself said they had something for SDCC in one of the morning shows she went on, to hawk the finale. I'm guessing it's like the quick promo of Hook we got for SDCC for S2 or the one of Ariel for S3. They don't get too fancy with these.

 

 

This has been my fear with this storyline since the beginning, that they are going to use it to justify Rumple

 

They're so lazy. This takes away the complexity and interesting factor for Rump's character. It's not even Rump anymore, but some dark goo character. I wonder how Robert feels about that. But it had to be obvious that's where they were going when they made the thing a separate entity and Rump's heart turned white. This is probably Robert's exit storyline and Rump's going to be the one that ends up destroying DO for Emma/town as his Last Grand Sacrifice.

[KingOfHearts]

No time jump? Such crap. Again this show has everything happen within a week's time, which cheats the characters out of organic development. Emma's been gone for 5 minutes! Oh noez! At least they'll find her in a few days! Way to not create drama, writers. But I guess 5A is over the course of nine months...?

Can't wait for spoilers.

Edited June 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

But I guess 5A is over the course of nine months...?

 

I don't know they can write like that.  Every season has been in a super compressed time frame.  I'm guessing some time jump between 5A and 5B, or Zelena's pregnancy gets super accelerated because pregnancies work differently around big black blobs.

[retrograde]

Perhaps when the showrunners said Zelena was going to pop her sprog "this season," they meant "season 5" because I agree there is no way they will spread 5A out across nine months... unless the show picks up straight off the finale, but then there is a time jump. Other shows do that quite regularly, though it's usually to wrap up loose ends rather than as the jumping off point for a new storyline.

Edited June 30, 2015 by retrograde