Unpopular Opinions: The Cheese Stands Alone

[SoupThrower]

I always found Kathleen attractive in Season 5. I don't know why.

 

But yeah her nose, her eyes and her eye are pretty odd. 

[Petunia13]

Her nose is really small and ski jumpy.

But all the critique I may have is moot because Tori.

[SoupThrower]

Her nose is really small and ski jumpy.

 

Can't unsee it now. :( 

 

But I still find her attractive. Well at that time. Kathleen not Tori.

 

Also UO but Season 7 is worse than Season 8. Season 7 irked me for some reason. Valerie was nowhere, Kelly was annoying, David and Donna thing was way too sappy, Clare and Steve irked together.

 

I guess Season 8 is really just watchable because of Valerie and David. Also found it kind of hypocritical about Kelly going on about Brandon cheating on her when she basically did stuff with Dylan when she dated him. 

Edited December 21, 2015 by SoupThrower

[Jax7917]

I couldn't stand how everyone knew val as the slut of the group and kelly would constantly bring that up, yet kelly got with the entire group with the exception of david and that was only because that was her brother. Kelly got with steve, dylan, brandon, etc and cheated on them all/ betrayed brenda in the process yet is never called out for being the "friendly" one. Made no sense

 

I didn't think kelly and brandon were good together . They were really cute together at first during the whole political storyline but after the honeymoon was over, their relationship became insufferable. Brandon needed a drama free girl and he never found that on the series . Kelly was too snobby for him. When they got back together around season 8 (when kelly's hair made her look like she was 55 years old), i just wanted them to break up already. They were like an old married couple and  they were 21. They were both way too self righteous to be together. Don't get me wrong, I didn't like her and dylan together either. Their entire relationship was literally fighting. I actually liked her best with matt. He brought out the playful, nice kelly.

[Maherjunkie]

You mean when she had the Chop?

[Petunia13]

Yea I didn't like how Val was slut shamed when Kelly was not exactly miss purity and besides that- the men she hooked up with had agency. What the fuck was that?!

[SoupThrower]

Yea I didn't like how Val was slut shamed when Kelly was not exactly miss purity and besides that- the men she hooked up with had agency. What the fuck was that?!

 

Because everyone loves Kelly apparently. Find it funny that Brandon stood up for Valerie more than his sister. 

I couldn't stand how everyone knew val as the slut of the group and kelly would constantly bring that up, yet kelly got with the entire group with the exception of david and that was only because that was her brother. Kelly got with steve, dylan, brandon, etc and cheated on them all/ betrayed brenda in the process yet is never called out for being the "friendly" one. Made no sense

 

I didn't think kelly and brandon were good together . They were really cute together at first during the whole political storyline but after the honeymoon was over, their relationship became insufferable. Brandon needed a drama free girl and he never found that on the series . Kelly was too snobby for him. When they got back together around season 8 (when kelly's hair made her look like she was 55 years old), i just wanted them to break up already. They were like an old married couple and  they were 21. They were both way too self righteous to be together. Don't get me wrong, I didn't like her and dylan together either. Their entire relationship was literally fighting. I actually liked her best with matt. He brought out the playful, nice kelly.

 

 

Because everyone loved Kelly. As much as Brandon is a massive dick, he gets overshadowed by Kelly (And I guess Dylan and Donna) badly. Kind of felt bad for him. He proposed, he lost an election, his parents are moving, one of his good friends moved, his sister is never coming back and she was like "Nah I'll just fool around with my ex-boyfriend since he bought plane tickets and saw me in his past. Oh and I'll disregard your feelings because I'm Kelly Taylor."

 

Still find it every more funny that when Valerie, Clare and Donna named David as their best kiss, Kelly didn't even blink an eye. It's your brother and your friends are naming him as their best kiss. I mean how would you not be grossed out?

Edited December 27, 2015 by SoupThrower

[txhorns79]

Still find it every more funny that when Valerie, Clare and Donna named David as their best kiss, Kelly didn't even blink an eye. It's your brother and your friends are naming him as their best kiss. I mean how would you not be grossed out?

 

In fairness, he's her step-brother, their parents didn't marry until the kids were both teenagers close to graduating high school and they don't really have a brother/sister relationship. 

[SnideAsides]

I don't see any issue with the casting of Gabrielle Carteris. She's exactly the right age to be playing a member of the facu...oh.

[Maherjunkie]

Or a youth counselor at her synagogue.  Not that one, the mature one.

[MissScarlett]

Yeah, Brenda was pretty annoying after Kelly and Dylan became a thing, but I do kind of feel for her. No one was on her side during that whole thing. Not even her brother. I always remember the episode where Brenda finds the diary and then the episode flashbacks to the 60s and instead of going on some trip with the gang, she stays home and Brandon gives her crap about it, and it's like, I get why she is trying to not put herself into a situation where she probably would have no fun. I feel like she started to break away from the group at the time and even the one year she was in college with them, it never felt like she was still part of the gang really anymore. In college, it took less than ten seconds for the gang to believe that rumor about how she got the lead role in the play. As much as Brenda was annoying, I always felt for her because it seemed like she never really had a true person to count on in the gang and that kind of makes me sad. 

 

I agree!  I am in the middle of a re-watch and am now heading to the end of Season 4.  Brenda is by far my favorite character.  She's complicated, she's not afraid to be rebellious or go against the "group", etc.  

 

During the love triangle of Season 3... it was hard to see Brenda and Kelly as the besties they had once been.  Kelly seemed to always have contempt for Brenda.  Even though it was Kelly who had "won".  I never understood that.

 

During the point in season 4, where there was a rumor spread that Brenda had slept with Roy Randolph to get the part of Maggie in Fiddler, not one person was on her side.  Except for maybe Brandon ... and that was marginal at best.  He didn't necessarily believe in her innocence but felt he was in no place to judge because of the Lucinda affair.

 

Brenda really was the cheese that stood alone on 90210.  It is a shame that Brenda was written off the show.  It would have been cool to see Brenda and cousin Valerie shenanigans.

 

Also, another possibly unpopular opinion -- I wish the show would have introduced a Brandon / Andrea relationship that extended beyond "just friends".  The writers seemed to flirt with the idea, but in the end even Andrea and Brandon's friendship became non-existent in Season 4 and thereafter.  Kind of sad since I think they were one another's "voice of reason".

 

I felt that Brandon and Kelly were a much better match for one another than they were with any other that they were paired with on the show.  Same goes for Dylan and Brenda.

Edited January 2, 2016 by MissScarlett

[scarynikki12]

Kelly seemed to always have contempt for Brenda.  Even though it was Kelly who had "won".  I never understood that.

 

I think Kelly's attitude toward/about Brenda had many parts to it.  Being the one Dylan cheated with practically the second Brenda left town, after spending the two previous years in a serious relationship with her, had to leave her aware that he would do the exact same thing should either of them go on a trip without the other.  She also knew that Brenda had ended the relationship instead of Dylan.  Timing was a major contributor to being chosen.  Brenda wasn't allowed to go to Jack's get together, leaving Kelly and Dylan alone for the first time in a while.  Kelly knew that Dylan was sexually attracted to her and likely thought that superseded any rational thought that night.  If Dylan had been the one to dump Brenda, waited a few weeks before going to Kelly, and not waffled about how he felt about either girl, then Kelly would have felt much more secure.  The way he behaved and her own guilt about betraying Brenda left her an insecure mess that manifested in anger, judgement and mistrust.  I think the reason she tended to aim those feelings at Brenda is because Brenda was ultimately really great about it.  She was angry at first but then sucked it up and not only stayed in Kelly's life but didn't retaliate and worked to keep the friendship alive.  Kelly's better when dealing with those she views as black hat villains (see: Valerie) and can't deal with the grey. 

[SoupThrower]

During the point in season 4, where there was a rumor spread that Brenda had slept with Roy Randolph to get the part of Maggie in Fiddler, not one person was on her side.  Except for maybe Brandon ... and that was marginal at best.  He didn't necessarily believe in her innocence but felt he was in no place to judge because of the Lucinda affair.

 

Brenda really was the cheese that stood alone on 90210.  It is a shame that Brenda was written off the show.  It would have been cool to see Brenda and cousin Valerie shenanigans.

 

I felt that Brandon and Kelly were a much better match for one another than they were with any other that they were paired with on the show.  Same goes for Dylan and Brenda.

 

Weird for saying this but I felt that Kelly dragged down Brandon. Felt he was better with Susan and Tracy than Kelly. Felt like Kelly was really just using him in a way. She basically put his marriage proposal against a ticket all around the world, that's kind of a jerk move and really just cheated on Brandon with Dylan. It's also like she saps the fun and joy out of people (Dylan and Brandon) 

 

Don't think we would have had Val if Brenda didn't leave. That means more Dylan/Kelly/Brenda again and again and again unless Brenda wised up and I don't know hooked up with Steve, David or DeShawn. Also found the Donna David romance kind of stupid (as I said ad nauseam) but I don't get it. I don't get the love for that couple.

 

In fairness, he's her step-brother, their parents didn't marry until the kids were both teenagers close to graduating high school and they don't really have a brother/sister relationship. 

 

But still icky I guess. It's like weird.

[AndySmith]

not one person was on her side.  Except for maybe Brandon ... and that was marginal at best

 

Well, Dylan was on her side. But to be fair, given the way it played out, it wasn't that shocking people thought she hooked up with him.

 

It would have been cool to see Brenda and cousin Valerie shenanigans.

 

The only reason we got Val to begin with was they needed someone to replace Shannon/Brenda. Brenda and Val on the same should would never have happened.

 

Also, another possibly unpopular opinion -- I wish the show would have introduced a Brandon / Andrea relationship that extended beyond "just friends"

 

I wouldn't say that counts as an unpopular opinion. Lots of fans wanted to see that, and lots of fans also wanted to see a Steve/Andrea pairing as well.

[SoupThrower]

Yeah the reasoning was that Roy something or rather sleeps with his actresses, he hit on Kelly, she visited him for a 'second chance', David I think said how much she went crazy that Kelly went for the part and Brandon knows that she does crazy stuff. So it it within good reason. I think Donna thought she wouldn't do it. So basically Dylan and Donna were 100% on her side.

[AndySmith]

Yeah, given that Brenda visits him at his house late at night after spectacularly flaming out in her audition, and he is a known womanizer who occasionally bangs his lead ladies, and is also known for not giving people second chances at auditions, yet Brenda got the part the next day...how dare anyone even raise an eyebrow at the idea that she scored the part via the casting couch!

Edited January 5, 2016 by AndySmith

[CurlyATX]

I'm bored at work post-election, so I wanted to chime in.  Using @AndySmith guidelines I'm going to share what I imagine are unpopular opinions from folks who originally watched the show.

1. I didn't like Kelly with either Dylan or Brandon.  Given her daddy issues and intellectual insecurities, I think she would have been after guys like "Call me Gil" or Dan Ruben. 

2. If she had to pick from the group, she and Steve would have been good on-screen.

3. I think Andrea (or rather GC) is so cute and more of a sexy gal than the girls we see.  Aside from some chemistry with Steve and the will they/won't they with Brandon, I would have liked to see Andrea paired up.  Maybe with Dylan when she was his "editor". 

4. I think the Beverly Beat was completely stupid and Rush shouldn't have bought it. 

5. I wish there were more girl love triangles.  We had Kelly/Brenda/Dylan and then a little bit of Kelly/Val/Collin and Kelly/Val/Tom.  I  would have loved to see some action with Donna/Kelly/someone or Kelly/Clare/Steve

6. I wish all non-gang SO refused to hang out with The Gang... I'm looking at Jesse, Susan, Tracey, Matt, Toni, and Janet.  I think Ray and Collin pretty much hated The Gang, right?

7. I think it's insane that non-gang people had NO friends to stand for them at significant events: Jesse/Andrea's wedding, Janet/Steve's baby's baptism, Nat/Joan's wedding.  The only one that makes sense is Donna/David's wedding and showers/bachelor party.

[atlanticslide]

Have been marathoning the show in my post-Election blues, and I'm in the midst of Season 6. It's just occurred to me that I think out of all of Donna's boyfriends, Joe was my favorite. He was bland, he was boring, but after David being an asshole to her and pressuring her for sex before cheating on her, Griffin being a sleaze, and Ray being... Ray, it was nice to see her with a boyfriend who was actually kind to her and generally respectful of her, and who didn't pressure her about sex. It was also nice just to not have sex be an issue in her storylines for a while. 

[CurlyATX]

Funny, I've been binge watching Veronica Mars for my post-election blues.  I wish they had made Joe's character more meaningful.  I thought it was great that he too was a virgin and not wanting to pressure Donna into anything.  He seemed to genuinely care for her too and was willing to stand up to Ray. 

Is this post Coked-out Kelly?

[atlanticslide]

I'm getting close to Coked-out Kelly, but I'm not there yet. I just finished the Thanksgiving episode and I think Kelly starts doing coke around New Year's Eve. Season 6 is such an up and down season for me - I love David and Val together, but then she blows it because of idiot Ginger and hooks up with Colin, who is probably my least favorite of Kelly's boyfriends and dominates way too much of the season. Shut up about your stupid art, Colin!

On another note, it will forever irritate me that they never actually committed to Brandon/Andrea but then trotted in Susan as an Andrea-replacement, but what bugs me more than anything is the way that Susan kisses him - she pretty much throws her entire body around him and does every kiss like it's a scene out of From Here to Eternity. Kiss like a normal person, Susan!

To bring it back to Unpopular Opinions, another about Season 6: I love Single White Tara. That was one of the craziest, most unintentionally hilarious storylines they ever did on the show and I love every moment of it.

[lancemalone42]

On December 26, 2014 at 1:53 PM, mtlchick said:

 

 

All of this.  I was shocked to find out how old Gabrielle was at the time the show started in a good way (I had pegged her for about 23 max, not 29.)  But once they went to college...gah.  Baby doll dresses and chokers were the rage and that look was horrible on her!

She looked younger than 29 ????

[lancemalone42]

I believe Donna was an underrated character that brought alot to the show . Although a tad spoiled Donna care md abt others & was generally a good person . Donna Martin GRADUATES ppl !! 

[FireFoxy]

I am a David/Valerie fan for life. Those two should've ended up together. They were the superior adult 90210 couple, especially in S8.

I thought what Dylan and Kelly did to Brenda was gross. Who hooks up with her best friend's boyfriend?!? Brenda had all the right in the world to be pissed. And even if I loved Dylan/Brenda, she deserved better. I was actually glad Dylan abandoned Kelly in the reboot. 

Brandon and Kelly were such a sanctimonious, soul sucking couple. They should've stayed together.

Donna was such a blackhole on the show but I liked her with Joe. And she was a good friend to Brenda.

I actually liked Steve/Claire until they made her into such a biatch.

[CurlyATX]

19 hours ago, FireFoxy said:

I am a David/Valerie fan for life.  I was actually glad Dylan abandoned Kelly in the reboot. 

 

I too think that David and Val made the best couple.  Val (TAT) has chemistry with anyone, even her ex bf at the time.  I also liked that they shared some of their dark leanings with each other.  I think David was the only one who really knew the truth about Val's father.  I wish stupid Ginger didn't ruin it all.

As for the reboot- I was very disappointed in how they assassinated some characters.  Dylan was really into family and I don't think would ever abandon his child.  I can see him/Kelly divorcing but he would have stayed an active parent. Look at how he leeched onto Erica (before dumping her to Iris).   Kelly's mom relapsed and was apparently a horrible parent and Mel was a skirt chaser who couldn't be bothered to help.  I only watched it a little and it was thoroughly disappointing.  They even spun the Brenda/Kelly/Dylan triangle to make it seem that Brenda was the cheater.  It's like they searched for writers who had never heard of the show.

[Jax7917]

On 12/6/2016 at 3:54 PM, FireFoxy said:

I am a David/Valerie fan for life. Those two should've ended up together. They were the superior adult 90210 couple, especially in S8.

I thought what Dylan and Kelly did to Brenda was gross. Who hooks up with her best friend's boyfriend?!? Brenda had all the right in the world to be pissed. And even if I loved Dylan/Brenda, she deserved better. I was actually glad Dylan abandoned Kelly in the reboot. 

Brandon and Kelly were such a sanctimonious, soul sucking couple. They should've stayed together.

Donna was such a blackhole on the show but I liked her with Joe. And she was a good friend to Brenda.

I actually liked Steve/Claire until they made her into such a biatch.

I really liked david/ valerie together when they first got together ( season 6 maybe?). I thought they were really cute together. But during their second time around in season 8/9.. I didn't see the chemistry at all. He didn't seem like he was into her in the least bit. It actually felt realistic because once a relationship is over the first time, there's usually no going back. And it showed.

 

And yea. How was kelly and brandon only like 19? They acted like they were in their 60's. Their relationship was a buzz kill

[Jax7917]

Also, I really liked susan and brandon's relationship . It felt real and fun. I wouldn't have minded if they ended up together( other than killing her character by insanely screwing brandon over ). Brando and kelly's relationship was only good when they weren't in one . Their best scenes together are when they aren't dating each other but they have the cute flirty thing going on

[AllyB]

On 12/7/2016 at 4:56 PM, CurlyATX said:

They even spun the Brenda/Kelly/Dylan triangle to make it seem that Brenda was the cheater.  It's like they searched for writers who had never heard of the show.

I only half watched the new series and that was just for Brenda but I don't remember that. I just really, really hated that they had both of these professional, successful women in their late 30s still hung up on this total douche of a man. In reality Brenda at least would have been breathing a heavy sigh of relief that she wasn't the one with a lifetime tie to him.

[TigerLynx]

On 12/22/2016 at 5:42 AM, AllyB said:

I only half watched the new series and that was just for Brenda but I don't remember that. I just really, really hated that they had both of these professional, successful women in their late 30s still hung up on this total douche of a man. In reality Brenda at least would have been breathing a heavy sigh of relief that she wasn't the one with a lifetime tie to him.

I never watched the new series, but a friend of mine mentioned they had tried to rewrite the Brenda/Dylan/Kelly history.  I watched the clip online and Kelly says to Brenda something like, "You stealing Dylan from me," which had me going WTH.  My friend stopped watching the new series after the first couple of episodes.

I stopped watching the original once Brenda moved to London.

[Asp Burger]

I don't know if it's a UO among the wider fandom (or whatever we call people who watched some or all of 90210), but I never had a problem with Brandon. When I follow the recaps and visual aids here, I laugh, and oh God do I get it. So many '90s dramas had that guy who was supposed to be the true-blue young male protagonist, and over time the writing and/or the acting made him insufferable, and you wanted him to get punched in his smug face in mid-lecture. Dawson Leery, Bailey Salinger, Dr. John Carter, and Matt Camden all qualified for me.  

But, strangely, not Brandon. Keep in mind I bailed after season 6, so there's a lot I didn't get firsthand. But I always liked the character, and thought Priestley was one of the assets of this show. He was just a solid lead. I especially liked him with his male co-stars. He had a convincing real-friends vibe with both Ziering and Perry, and sometimes they'd do little bits of business that would crack me up. 

Plus, he did have that megawatt smile. Yeah, I'd believe John Hurt would fly over to stalk that after accidentally seeing Hotpants College 2.   

Oh, now here's a legit unpopular one. I think they should have kept Ray around. Not reunited him romantically with Donna, ever, but actually dramatized that rehabilitation that happened offscreen. We saw various members of the gang get involved in things that put themselves and others at risk (alcohol and drug problems, gun non-safety, gambling addiction); why not domestic violence from the side of the abusive character? That might actually have been a valuable message. But they tried to have it both ways. "Ray isn't evil and horrible or anything, he just has a problem and needs help, and our characters do still like him and will go to his shows...but he's gone."  

Edited June 8, 2018 by Asp Burger

[Jax7917]

3 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

I don't know if it's a UO among the wider fandom (or whatever we call people who watched some or all of 90210), but I never had a problem with Brandon. When I follow the recaps and visual aids here, I laugh, and oh God do I get it. So many '90s dramas had that guy who was supposed to be the true-blue young male protagonist, and over time the writing and/or the acting made him insufferable, and you wanted him to get punched in his smug face in mid-lecture. Dawson Leery, Bailey Salinger, Dr. John Carter, and Matt Camden all qualified for me.  

But, strangely, not Brandon. Keep in mind I bailed after season 6, so there's a lot I didn't get firsthand. But I always liked the character, and thought Priestley was one of the assets of this show. He was just a solid lead. I especially liked him with his male co-stars. He had a convincing real-friends vibe with both Ziering and Perry, and sometimes they'd do little bits of business that would crack me up. 

Plus, he did have that megawatt smile. Yeah, I'd believe John Hurt would fly over to stalk that after accidentally seeing Hotpants College 2.   

Oh, now here's a legit unpopular one. I think they should have kept Ray around. Not reunited him romantically with Donna, ever, but actually dramatized that rehabilitation that happened offscreen. We saw various members of the gang get involved in things that put themselves and others at risk (alcohol and drug problems, gun non-safety, gambling addiction); why not domestic violence from the side of the abusive character? That might actually have been a valuable message. But they tried to have it both ways. "Ray isn't evil and horrible or anything, he just has a problem and needs help, and our characters do still like him and will go to his shows...but he's gone."  

I agree with this. I liked Brandon as a character for the most part but every time he was a know it all or his morals came out in high gear, I got annoyed by him. I too liked his friendship with Steve (less with Dylan but only because Dylan was always so moody with everyone that I just didn't like his relationship with anyone.) But with Steve his friendship felt very natural. 

I don't think they should have kept Ray around long term, but I see what you're saying. It was definitely annoying that the characters did drugs, cheated, etc themselves, yet shunned anyone outside of the group that did the same. 

[CurlyATX]

I was a huge nerd, so at the time, I thought Dylan was this "tortured soul" who was into the lit books that I was into.  Now, I see him as a pretentious ass- but 20+ years ago, I wasn't able to see red flags and that boy is a walking red flag.  I was never into Brandon but didn't see him as the punchable bray that he is.  Age is a wonderful thing I guess.  

I think Ray was the start of the "disposable significant other of the year" that most of the main characters had.  Deep down, you knew that they would never last.  Clare lasted for several years and Valerie too.  But with Ray, Collin, Susan, Tracey, Mark (later Gina)- all these folks who were part of this revolving door of love interests.  It was better than the girlfriend of the week that Brandon had from season one.  

I think part of what stagnated the show is this sense that there was never any new long-lasting blood.  Even Melrose Place had expanded a little to be beyond the folks who lived in that apartment complex.  

I guess Noah stays until the end but by then, we just are so sick of all the new people who will leave.  

[Jax7917]

15 minutes ago, CurlyATX said:

I was a huge nerd, so at the time, I thought Dylan was this "tortured soul" who was into the lit books that I was into.  Now, I see him as a pretentious ass- but 20+ years ago, I wasn't able to see red flags and that boy is a walking red flag.  I was never into Brandon but didn't see him as the punchable bray that he is.  Age is a wonderful thing I guess.  

I think Ray was the start of the "disposable significant other of the year" that most of the main characters had.  Deep down, you knew that they would never last.  Clare lasted for several years and Valerie too.  But with Ray, Collin, Susan, Tracey, Mark (later Gina)- all these folks who were part of this revolving door of love interests.  It was better than the girlfriend of the week that Brandon had from season one.  

I think part of what stagnated the show is this sense that there was never any new long-lasting blood.  Even Melrose Place had expanded a little to be beyond the folks who lived in that apartment complex.  

I guess Noah stays until the end but by then, we just are so sick of all the new people who will leave.  

I guess that leads into another unpopular opinion.. in that I never found Dylan to be as good looking or desirable as mostly everyone in real life and all the girls on the show thought he was. Looks wise, I always thought Brandon and David were much better looking. Sure, their 90's styling got ahold of them and they had rough looking moments with their clothes, but facially I thought those 2 were really good looking. Dylan, not so much. Not sure if that has to do with his annoying brooding personality or what, but the best looking I found him was during his relationship with Toni in season 6 and even then, eh. But to each their own.

I thought Noah was the most dragged out character EVER. He was just there for too long IMO. 

To your point, Valerie lasted because she wasn't a guest character. She took Brenda's place as one of the main characters. As for Clare, I was shocked she lasted as long as she did because to me , she was more of a guest character than a main one. Each season that she was on, I kept wondering when they'd boot her. I was indifferent about Clare...AT FIRST. Her personality annoyed me as well as her bad hair and nose (sorry for the shallow note), but she was fine in the first couple of seasons. But her last season on the show, it was like the writers were trying to get you to hate her. She was brutal to Steve all the time (although when he hit on other girls he deserved it).. but every other time I was just like omg please leave.

[Cilantro]

I like Nana Ahhhhhndea's laugh because it is genuine and doesn't sound cutesy and forced. 

[MCMLXXVII]

Upon this last rewatching, I really dislike Val. She reminds me way too much of “cool” friends I didn’t realize were incredibly toxic when I was at that age. She can’t leave the show fast enough.

Edited July 30, 2018 by MCMLXXVII

[gesundheit]

I guess this UO forum is the safe space to say I liked Kelly. And David. And Val was a really bad person.

[Jax7917]

6 hours ago, gesundheit said:

I guess this UO forum is the safe space to say I liked Kelly. And David. And Val was a really bad person.

The writers tried to play both sides with Val , but not just like she's a good person with a bad attitude sometimes . They somehow made her character a good person and a terrible person depending on which episode it was . Granted , when she was good she was just being phony most of the time , but they did try to write her as if she had a split personality disorder . What I did like about her was that she liked to have fun and the rest of them were 20 year old duds . 

[Dr.OO7]

On 1/5/2016 at 7:39 AM, AndySmith said:

Yeah, given that Brenda visits him at his house late at night after spectacularly flaming out in her audition, and he is a known womanizer who occasionally bangs his lead ladies, and is also known for not giving people second chances at auditions, yet Brenda got the part the next day...how dare anyone even raise an eyebrow at the idea that she scored the part via the casting couch!

I hate how that was filmed to be ambiguous and make the audience wonder. And then Brenda caps it off by getting angry and defensive and never once outright answering "No" to the question.

No one came off good in that storyline. The teacher giving her an "off the books" second chance was unfair to Laura. And meeting her like that was dangerous--Brenda herself could have lied and claimed he demanded sex in exchange for the part and there would have been no one to contradict her.

Laura starting rumors when she could have and should have simply made a legitimate complaint about Brenda getting an undeserved second chance.

Steve believing Laura when he KNOWS from painful experience that she's a hysteric and a liar.

I hated Valerie. I'm sorry for the hell her father put her through, especially if it influenced the horrible way she behaved, but that's just it. Her behavior was horrible and so was her lack of remorse.

[atlanticslide]

I remember finding Val absolutely insufferable when I was younger - I'm generally not a fan of scheming characters who just want to screw people over - but watching the reruns now I like her a lot more. This might sound crazy considering the show, but I think TAT actually did a really good job conveying Val's vulnerabilities and elevated way beyond the material that was written for her. Randomly, on this note I always think of that scene between her and Brandon at the end of Season 5 when she's inexplicably desperate for his junk and she talks to him about how in all the months she's lived at Casa Walsh, they've never touched each other, and the writing is absolute garbage (especially considering it's fucking Brandon) but she sells the shit out of it. In general in Season 5 I think she did a good job of coming across as someone very mixed up about who she is and what she wants, which I don't even really think is what the writers were going for - I think they were mostly just going for Scheming Soap Bitch - but TAT really made it work.

I think the other thing that's made me appreciate Val more in recent years is seeing how much of an asshole Kelly was to her right from the jump. Val tells a dumb white lie about pot and Kelly basically hates her forever from that point on. I don't know why, but that just makes me want to be on Val's side, even when she does things that are inexcusable. 

[CurlyATX]

11 hours ago, atlanticslide said:

Kelly basically hates her forever from that point on

I don't think The Gang ever acknowledges what a bitch Kelly is.  She puts the whole suicide info on blast.  She rats out Dylan/Valerie (because she's jealous).  She continually slut shames Val throughout the run of the show.  When she thought Val had an abortion, she meddles so much.  She tries to hook up with Buffalo Tom.  And the worst was when Val was legitimately raped by Noah, Kelly leads the charge against her and barely "apologizes".

What I didn't understand from Val was why she screwed Donna over so much with hooking up with Ray.  

[MCMLXXVII]

4 hours ago, CurlyATX said:

What I didn't understand from Val was why she screwed Donna over so much with hooking up with Ray.  

*Sexually harassing* Ray since she threatened his employment at the club.

Because toxic.

[atlanticslide]

Yeah, that was a period that I really hated Val back in the day, and still makes her look like an asshole to me. Especially because, RAY. There was not one single appealing thing about that guy. Val was hot, rich (at that point), and lived in a hotel. She should've been able to have her pick of guys, but she went after freaking Ray? That said, it annoys me that up until their fling was revealed, it seemed to be portrayed as Val being the dark temptress that lured innocent Ray away from angel Donna, when he could've put a stop to it too. And on the one hand, I appreciate that when Donna found out, she didn't buy Ray's excuses and didn't accept his "she's just a lying bitch!" bullshit about Val. On the other hand, there was no real reason that Donna should've stayed friends with Val after that. That whole storyline was such a mess.

On the Kelly front, one of my least favorite Kelly moments is from that same episode when everyone finds out about Val and Ray, before they find out, they're talking about best kisses or something, and Kelly snarks bitchily about how Val has kissed Steve, Brandon, Dylan, like that makes her such a slut, and like, first of all, it's 3 guys. Who the fuck cares if a woman in her early 20s (or any age for that matter) has kissed 3 freaking guys. Second of all, those are all guys that pretty much ALL of the gang girls have made out with or fucked at some point! INCLUDING KELLY. Fuck off, Kelly. 

[Jax7917]

Lolol omg yes to Kelly slut shaming Val for kissing 3 of the guys when she kissed , had sex with AND dated all 3 of those best friends .. let alone one of the guys was her best friends boyfriend . Do the writers not remember anything ? 

[CurlyATX]

9 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Lolol omg yes to Kelly slut shaming Val for kissing 3 of the guys when she kissed , had sex with AND dated all 3 of those best friends .. let alone one of the guys was her best friends boyfriend . Do the writers not remember anything ? 

But in Kelly's case, she LOVED them, so it's different.  Remember: Kelly only has sex with people she loves (minus her slutty years).  Insert full body eye roll. 

[Dr.OO7]

On 11/9/2016 at 10:44 PM, atlanticslide said:

think out of all of Donna's boyfriends, Joe was my favorite. He was bland, he was boring, but after David being an asshole to her and pressuring her for sex before cheating on her, Griffin being a sleaze, and Ray being... Ray, it was nice to see her with a boyfriend who was actually kind to her and generally respectful of her, and who didn't pressure her about sex. It was also nice just to not have sex be an issue in her storylines for a while. 

I liked Joe too, for all the reasons mentioned. Speaking of "non-gang" people, I hated the way they were always made them so bland so that even though they may have been perfect for whoever they were dating, there was still always something "wrong" with them so that they'd get ditched for the "gang" person.

[dariafan]

On 12/5/2014 at 5:43 PM, Moo said:

I always thought Andrea had the prettiest face by a mile. Brenda had a nice smile and great hair but the eye thing threw me off, Kelly looked like a small woodland creature and Donna had a horse-face.

I didn’t mind Tori’s face in the early days .... all the work on it just messed it up in her quest to be an actual Barbie Doll

[Scarlett45]

On 8/2/2018 at 7:41 PM, Camille said:

I liked Joe too, for all the reasons mentioned. Speaking of "non-gang" people, I hated the way they were always made them so bland so that even though they may have been perfect for whoever they were dating, there was still always something "wrong" with them so that they'd get ditched for the "gang" person.

Joe was the best boyfriend Donna had- he was compatible with HER! They had fun, shared the same values, he didn’t talk down to her or treat her badly. Shame they wrote him off. 

[Dr.OO7]

50 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Joe was the best boyfriend Donna had- he was compatible with HER! They had fun, shared the same values, he didn’t talk down to her or treat her badly. Shame they wrote him off. 

Hell, that's probably WHY they wrote him off. God forbid a soap character be in a healthy relationship. 

[Jax7917]

14 minutes ago, Camille said:

Hell, that's probably WHY they wrote him off. God forbid a soap character be in a healthy relationship. 

I thought joe was her best match too .. but he really did bore me to tears and I always thought he looked way older than the character he was playing . 

I guess my unpopular opinion is that I did want David and Donna back together in the end .. I liked the way they were written and even though Donna was always written as a saint and David was chronically moody , I thought they were cute together ( that is , until home wrecker Arielle came into the picture .) but hey , they had to break up at some point and they were together for a couple of years which never happens in the world of tv . It’s usually one season and the characters are broken up . 

[SoupThrower]

David and Donna ran their course once they finished high school. Someone like Joe was perfect for Donna, and someone like Claire, Val or even Brenda would have worked well for David.

I would have loved to see Celeste as a main character. Other than Janet, she was perfect for Steveo. I hated Claire with him.

I wish there was more Brandon, Steve and David trio moments. They have good chem especially Steve and Brandon. It was more natural than Donna and Kelly.

Also I wondered what would happen if Brenda stayed and I think Claire would have played the Val and would have dated David still. We would have had the whole Kelly, Dylan and Brenda thing again and I do not think we would have had Ray tbqh. 

[Jax7917]

14 hours ago, SoupThrower said:

David and Donna ran their course once they finished high school. Someone like Joe was perfect for Donna, and someone like Claire, Val or even Brenda would have worked well for David.

I would have loved to see Celeste as a main character. Other than Janet, she was perfect for Steveo. I hated Claire with him.

I wish there was more Brandon, Steve and David trio moments. They have good chem especially Steve and Brandon. It was more natural than Donna and Kelly.

Also I wondered what would happen if Brenda stayed and I think Claire would have played the Val and would have dated David still. We would have had the whole Kelly, Dylan and Brenda thing again and I do not think we would have had Ray tbqh. 

If Donna was a real life person, she would have ended up with Joe. But given that they dated during season 6 and he wasn't a main character, they were never gonna end up together. Oh and he was a snooze fest to watch.

I liked Celeste too, more than Janet actually. Celeste was never really given a chance as a character.. but she accepted Steve for who he was and was nice and out of his league. Janet annoyed me for the most part. Claire and Steve were ok in the beginning, but by their second season together, they were like watching a car wreck over and over.

I think if Brenda stayed on the show, the show would have focused a lot more on Dylan going back and forth between the two. I also think the show would have continued to destroy Brenda's character and make her as unlikable as Kelly ended up. I think the show needed Val.