Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[bettername2come]

Okay, with Caitlin there I'd say we have a greater possibility that we'll get the shocking reveal that MITIM is Ronnie, although I see no reason to keep him alive...unless maybe he wanted to harness the Firestorm powers later. 

 

Or it's Eddie, who comes back from the dead just in time to be a problem for Westallen to overcome, only, ha, just kidding, Iris has totally moved on and it's not just her settling for Barry because Eddie was dead.

 

There really is a Jay Garrick, who looks nothing like Zoom, and dude just stole his name and credentials. I see no reason real Jay Garrick would have to look like Zoom.

[phoenics]

Jay Garrick's flash doesn't have a mask. So if he's Jay Garrick and was the Flash, and Zoom replaced him, wouldn't they have to look exactly alike? Besides - the costume Zoom/Jay wore as Jay Garrick's Flash was the same as his father's uniform - just with wings added to the hat...

Edited April 21, 2016 by phoenics

[bettername2come]

I think maybe The Flash Jay Garrick is just a random dude, but maybe stole the scientist shtick from a real person named that since they said there really is a Jay Garrick.

[zannej]

Maybe the man in the mask is Hunter's father?

 

The whole time remnant thing seemed like a bit of a cop-out to me.

[Trini]

Episode 2.21 description:

"The Runaway Dinosaur"

 

KEVIN SMITH DIRECTS - With Barry gone, the team must figure out a way to handle the return of an old enemy - Girder (guest star Greg Finley). Realizing Girder is retracing his steps from his last attack, Iris volunteers to act as bait to trap him in S.T.A.R. Labs. Meanwhile, Barry fights to return to his old life.

 

Kevin Smith directed the episode written by Zack Stentz.

 

1) Barry "gone"? is he injured and recuperating? Or off trying to get his speed back?

2) Um, isn't Girder dead? doppelganger?

 

I've never seen a Kevin Smith movie (but I know he really likes the show and characters) so I don't know what to expect.

 

EW Spoiler Room:

Barry’s lost his speed! How’s he supposed to fight Zoom now? — Tamara

Now that Barry is without powers, I pondered whether other speedsters may be involved in the hopeful takedown of Zoom in the finale, but Teddy Sears is staying relatively mum. “The final showdown is mano-a-mano, Barry vs. Hunter,” the actor tells me. “Because we haven’t shot it yet, I don’t even have a picture, but what’s on the page, it proves to be epic in the truest sense of the word. It should be very fun and very satisfying for the viewers.”

 

 

TV Line Sweeps spoilers:

PRE-FINALE: Now that Zoom has Barry's speed, "In these last five episodes, the pieces start to fall together and you see exactly what his endgame is," says co-showrunner Aaron Helbing. "There's definitely a method to his madness." For Barry, "It's going to take some adjusting" to life in the slower lane, co-showrunner Todd Helbing says, though the question of somehow reacquiring his speed "is certainly brought up." Elsewhere, Wally has "a different reaction" than others have had to Barry's secret, while Cisco is "hit pretty hard" to discover that his brother is the Earth-Two villain Rupture — though the reveal brings him and Dante closer together over here.

SEASON FINALE (MAY 24): "Last year's [finale] was chock full of emotion and spectacle, and we tried to raise the bar," says Todd. "Grant [Gustin] posted about how insanely emotional the finale is, and emotion really is driving it. But the vastness of the showdown is pretty epic." On a lighter note, "There might be a grand gesture" from Barry-loving Iris, Aaron hints, while as for the Man in the Iron Mask reveal, "You will not see it coming," Todd asserts.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Trini

[nksarmi]

The man in the iron mask better be Eddie - it would make the fact that Eobard Thorne is still alive and that all of season one wasn't erased from existence make so much more sense.

[Trini]

Matt's Inside Line:

Quote

Do you know anything about the episode of The Flash that Katie Cassidy will be guest-starring in on May 17th? —Jill
“Like most of the Earth-Two metahumans, Black Siren is under the thumb of Zoom,” EP Todd Helbing tells me. That said, “She’s a very powerful metahuman,” EP Aaron Helbing notes. “She is sassy, strong and capable…. Katie really nailed the performance.”

How was The Flash’s Barry able to “run” to and from Laurel’s funeral (in the Arrow flash-forward) if he lost his speed on The Flash? —Ellen
When crossing over elements between the CW’s DC superhero shows, “Sometimes the schedules don’t line up exactly,” Flash EP Aaron Helbing laments. “Schedules change, and that stuff is out of our control.”

Photos from 2.20, "Rupture".  <-- 1) I assume that Iris decided to look her hottest for her love confession (just in case Barry dies doing the next stupid thing),  and 2) I don't understand why they went so elaborate for the Rupture costume.

[Trini]

EW Spoiler Room:

Quote

Any scoop on Black Siren’s appearance on The Flash? — The Flash Podcast

It’ll be tough for everyone on Team Flash, though we should all remember that Cisco had a crush on Black Canary once upon a time. “Cisco reacts in a pretty unexpected way,” Carlos Valdes tells me. “There’s a little bit of a morbid shock, because the characters have an awareness to the fact that Laurel Lance is dead. That death had some effect on these characters in this world. So to see Black Siren, more than anything, is a shock to the senses. To know that someone relatively close to you is dead and to see a version of them still alive would be harrowing and jarring for anyone. There’s a bit of a disturbance there in terms of seeing her like that again.”

How 'tough' could it be since the Flash team has barely interacted with her? But I agree that Cisco would have the biggest reaction.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Trini

[Trini]

2.22 synopsis:

Quote

"Invincible"

KATIE CASSIDY GUEST STARS AS BLACK SIREN -
After Zoom (guest star Teddy Sears) unleashes an army of Earth-2 meta-humans on Central City, Barry (Grant Gustin) is shaken when he sees their leader is the Black Canary's Earth-2 doppelganger, the Black Siren (guest star Katie Cassidy). Meanwhile, Wally (Keiynan Lonsdale) takes to the streets to help The Flash stop the meta-humans, which worries Joe (Jesse L. Martin). Iris (Candice Patton) and Henry (guest star John Wesley Shipp) are concerned about Barry taking on Zoom.
Jesse Warn directed the episode with story by Greg Berlanti & Andrew Kreisberg and teleplay by Brooke Roberts & David Kob.

[SevenStars]

I'm kind of hopping the writers find a way to keep Black Siren on the show.

[phoenics]

They just put some new deleted scenes on the itunes Flash episodes.  In one of them when they capture Hunter Zolomon - he almost looks like - I dunno - like he's not him?  And then when the cops catch him, he keeps desperately screaming "You can't lock up the darkness!" over and over again... I thought it was so odd that Barry was all "what did you say?" when Zoom said it to him - no real reason for Barry to do that unless the writers wanted us to pay attention to that phrase.

Something else is going on with Zoom/Hunter.  I don't know what it is, but now I'm intrigued about the MiTM.  Maybe Hunter is "sick"?  I think it would be a cop out to make him mind controlled (the eyes going black made me think of Darkseid's mind control) but something is obviously going on... just don't know what.

Edited April 30, 2016 by phoenics

[ruby24]

Are there any Barry/Iris scenes in the deleted scenes this season? I keep wondering if their stuff is getting cut. I know at least a few were.

[phoenics]

The only scene we know was cut hasn't shown up in the deleted scenes stuff released to itunes.  It was way back in 2A - Barry was supposed to be talking with Iris about her mom and comforting her about finding out her mom wasn't dead like she thought.

It's a scene where Iris has on a yellow sweater and Barry has on red.  They cut it (bad choice too because that episode had TWO redundant Patty/Barry scenes that were nearly identical).  I swear I hate The Flash's and CW's PR and editing departments.

[zannej]

Since they said Barry is "gone" I assume he went somewhere or is missing rather than that he's unconscious.

I really hope that whoever dies isn't Joe. I remember seeing one of the BTS pics and it looked like Iris had a blanket wrapped around her while she sat next to Barry.

[ruby24]

I'm like 99% sure they're killing Henry. Which is lame, mostly because is it not the exact same thing that happened to Moira on Arrow, and also at the end of S2? That plus the Wally storyline is obviously Roy all over again, beat for beat. C'mon people, why do you have to repeat yourselves so much?

I think Barry gets lost in the speedforce as a result of the particle accelerator thing. And since we've gotten hints that episode 21 is the big WestAllen episode, he'll probably interact with some hallucinatory version of past Iris in the speedforce and she's what brings his powers back/gets him back to present day. Maybe they'll finally bring up the fact that she's supposed to be his lightning rod?

[Trini]

If they kill off somebody -- and I hope they don't -- I agree Henry is the most likely candidate, but I really, really hope it isn't him! Especially since he barely has had much time to spend with Barry.

Hmm, I like your lost is the speed force theory. Or maybe it just looks like another coma.

But about episode 2.22; can't Cisco close the breach? How did Zoom get an "army" of metas over here?

[Trini]

As to whether Barry and Iris get to kiss this season, I'm going to be optimistic and say they will; on the other hand, TPTB could find a way to ruin it anyway. Last season they kissed but then time got reversed immediately; this season there was a kiss but it was with Iris' doppelganger.

So, if they do kiss, expect something bad to happen. (Seen this in several other genre shows, too.)

Edited May 4, 2016 by Trini

[Trini]

Spoilery international promo. Also has Arrow spoilers.

[TVHappy9463]

I still think the man in the iron mask is Barry's father. 

[ruby24]

Yeah, tonight's episode definitely hinted something about that anyway.

My prediction about Jesse and Wally: they become troublemaking speedsters together next season and a couple, and eventually they bring back Linda to set up a triangle.

I honestly don't mind triangles with other characters as long as Barry and Iris are solidly together, so if they want to move any romance drama to other people, go right ahead, show. Just have Barry and Iris be happy and on the road to engagement, marriage, babies, etc.

[zannej]

Hmm.. Now it's interesting that Garrick was Barry grandmother's maiden name. I wonder if it will turn out that Hunter is somehow related to Barry on Earth2.

I wonder how long it will be before Jesse and Wally start showing that they have powers. While I think the actor and actress have good chemistry, since I am a bit of a stickler to the comics, I would love for Linda to come back and hook up with Wally.

I can't recall whether or not Jesse ever married in the comics. I hope that Harry will eventually get powers so he can join in. I know Tom Cavanagh said he likes getting into the costumes and doing fight scenes.

I'm also hoping that they will bring up that Iris is Barry's lightning rod and ultimately, it will be through her that he is able to make his way back home.

[ruby24]

I heard the next episode is pretty WA heavy, so hopefully there's a kiss in here somewhere. I'm suspicious about Kreisberg's vague, "expect twists and turns on a kiss" statement, though. That makes it sound like there won't be, but why wouldn't there be at least one kiss before the end of the season?

[ruby24]

I think E2 Henry is Jay Garrick somehow. They're obviously going to kill E1 Henry (which was basically confirmed as soon as Barry said he's back for good- yeah, right), but then his doppelganger is the real Jay...but I honestly can't figure out exactly how that would make any sense.

Henry said his mother's maiden name was Garrick, so that means on E2 she must have...nope, I've got nothing. But I'm still thinking that will be what happens. As a nod to the 90's Flash playing their version of Golden Age Flash on this show- that just seems like something they'd want to do. And hey, that would mean they could still use JWS about as often as they use him now, even if they kill Henry.

Whatever they come up with I'll probably buy, but didn't Nora say Barry's dad was at home with her on E2? That's the part that couldn't possibly add up, unless E2 Barry has a stepdad or something, because his parents got divorced (or he thinks his dad died on that earth?) and she remarried. She didn't actually say his name, right, so I guess that's possible.

I don't know why his name over there would be Jay though. Unless it's like a code name? An alias he used maybe?

Edited May 4, 2016 by ruby24

[Potanical Pardon]

3 hours ago, zannej said:

I can't recall whether or not Jesse ever married in the comics. I hope that Harry will eventually get powers so he can join in. I know Tom Cavanagh said he likes getting into the costumes and doing fight scenes.

She marries Rick Tyler (Hourman II). And they are the annoying PDA couple who never talks about anything except their relationship or relates whatever is going on, no matter what it is, to themselves. They were cool before they got married, though. It had to be intentional to write them as that kind of couple, once married, and we were supposed to be annoyed by it like the other characters, but I don't really know what it added to any story nor character development.

[Trini]

Maybe the Man in the Mask is the real Jay Garrick, who is Earth-2 Barry Allen's ... grandfather? uncle? It shouldn't be E-2 Henry since he was with E-2 Nora*; but on the other hand, the whole mask thing is there because it's probably going to be a face the audience will recognize.
*But they didn't say that explicitly so yeah, there might be wiggle room.
 

8 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I heard the next episode is pretty WA heavy, so hopefully there's a kiss in here somewhere. I'm suspicious about Kreisberg's vague, "expect twists and turns on a kiss" statement, though. That makes it sound like there won't be, but why wouldn't there be at least one kiss before the end of the season?

It looks like Barry is in Speedster Purgatory, with 'people' who look like people he knows -- a kiss could happen there, but that'd be a big cop-out.

[Trini]

*Season 3* info: Kevin Smith to direct another episode.

[Trini]

Photos for 2.21, "The Runaway Dinosaur": Nora! WestAllen! Barry's Tears!

It's looking like next episode will have ALL the Feels.

[DeadZeus]

I have a question, dno if this was brought up but it just popped in my head.

Zoom has blue streaks and Jay has yellow/red.

Since when can he decide what streak he leaves behind?

[zannej]

11 hours ago, DeadZeus said:

I have a question, dno if this was brought up but it just popped in my head.

Zoom has blue streaks and Jay has yellow/red.

Since when can he decide what streak he leaves behind?

Good question. I assume that maybe Zoom was supplementing with some sort of velocity serum or that he has enough control over his speedforce to the point that the blue lightning is what is generated when he's using his max speed or something. It could also have to do with the suit. Remember that Eobard seemed to be deriving at least some of his power from charging his suit. And I'm not sure if Eobard's lightning was red by coincidence or if he somehow chose red.

[Trini]

Vague season finale (2.23) synopsis:

Quote

"The Race of His Life"

THE FLASH VS. ZOOM -
After Zoom (guest star Teddy Sears) reveals his true plan, Barry (Grant Gustin) vows to do whatever it takes to stop him.

Antonio Negret directed the episode written by Aaron Helbing & Todd Helbing.

[bettername2come]

Zoom has a plan?!!

[Trini]

Extended promo for "The Runaway Dinosaur"; Iris!!! Lightning rod!!!!

[Trini]

Photos for the next episode, "Invincible" (2.22)

It's probably only for one scene, but I'm glad to see more of Reverb.
The costume department relies way too much on (black) leather. But it's nice they managed to put a little netting into Black Siren's costume.
Did they tint all those photos? Everything looks yellowish.

---

They've made a point of killing off Earth-2 metahumans, so while Black Siren looks fun, she's probably going to end up dead.

[bettername2come]

The Black Siren costume is really pretty though. Way better than Black Canary's. I assume Reverb and Killer Frost are flashbacks.

[zannej]

I wonder if Cisco and Caitlin dress up as their E2 counterparts to try to pull a fast one on Laurel. But, it would be too far-fetched for them to be able to get the costumes. I agree that it is likely a flashback of some sort.

I'm also wondering what Hunter will think about the articles about Barry's mother being murdered.

[bmoore4026]

Cisco's vision on this week's episode,

Spoiler

was that The Crisis?

 

And my guess for the man in the iron mask is

Spoiler

the real Jay Garrick, who will be freed and he and bunch of good metahumans will form the Justice Society to police the bad metahumans.

Edited May 18, 2016 by bmoore4026
Because I got my Flashes confused

[Trini]

Finale promo photos -- which feature a lot of standing around...

Uh, not the time for heels, Flash costume department!

[cambridgeguy]

Come on ladies, just admit you're shorter than the guys on the show and wear some sneakers.  Do you really want to be running for your life in heels?  Oh, and Cisco really should design a more comfortable helmet for Barry.  The man takes it off ALL of the damned time even though we can see enough of his face to make Grant Gustin earn his money.

I guess Zoom kidnaps Joe (good thing Barry has multiple dads to use as leverage) to convince him to race.  To be honest all of the non geniuses (the Wests, basically) should have been put into the equivalent of witness protection immediately

[ruby24]

You know, I'm wondering now if the lack of Geoff Johns' involvement this season is what has led to the change in tone. He was much more involved with the show last year, and I just saw an interview with Grant Gustin at upfronts where he admitted he doesn't know how closely he's even involved in the show anymore.

Maybe he was largely responsible for maintaining that fun, lighthearted feel that's been all but lost this season (except for a couple of episodes) and Barry's attitude shift from being funny and sweet and adorable to just having to wear this "weight of the world," Oliver Queen-lite nonsense and being so mopey. Kreisberg may have just fallen back on the Arrow train of focusing on a big scary villain and causing doom/gloom non-stop for the hero instead of the superfun show it was in the first season.

[DeadZeus]

I have a question about the Speedforce.

If it loves Barry so much, then why does it also grant power to the likes of Zoom and Thawne?

[CabotCove]

Quote

You know, I'm wondering now if the lack of Geoff Johns' involvement this season is what has led to the change in tone. 

Yes, I feel his absense has something to do with it. And  at the start of the season I head about Gabrielle Stanton, becoming the new showrunner for season 2, likely co-running  the show with Andrew. Not only was Geoff no longer working on the Flash  but Greg too was out working on a million projects, and Andrew is now splitting his time with Supergirl. At least thats what I think happened and has caused this season to be such a hit & miss, correct me if Im wrong. I really feel a lot has changed for the worse this season. Im all for new showrunner/s but if they are making the show worse, then they maybe not be the right fit for it. And Andrew is either overworked or maybe he works better when Geoff/Greg are around, IMO. Either way, this season is like a ghost ship steering without a captain. 

 

Quote

If it loves Barry so much, then why does it also grant power to the likes of Zoom and Thawne?

Maybe because they stole it, and maybe there are evil forces within the speedforce who help evil people to keep their speed? Just a wild thought. 

Edited May 23, 2016 by WildcardC

[ruby24]

Yeah, and Gabrielle Stanton isn't even there anymore- she left the show after this season's first 7 episodes. Now I think the Helbing brothers are the ones doing the day to day, while Kreisberg was split between this and Supergirl.

So yeah, it may be suffering from a lack of stewardship, but I do kind of think Geoff Johns not being involved has led to a big difference in terms of that happy, optimistic, light and funny tone/atmosphere. Especially in regards to Barry's attitude. Two episodes this season had people (Iris and Diggle) bemoaning Barry as always carrying the "weight of the world" on his shoulders, and both times I was thinking, what the hell? That stupid cliche is the exact opposite of what the show was celebrating last season, with Barry as the guy who loved being a superhero and Central City being fun and sunny all the time. He's not suppose to be a guy with the "weight of the world" bullshit. He sees things differently, in spite of his mother's death.

That kind of stuff makes me think they're simply falling back on old tropes that affect every other superhero, including Arrow, while Barry is supposed to NOT be that. Purposely.

I really, really hope they figure this out before the third season. All I can do is cross my fingers, because we know Geoff Johns is gone for good.

[zannej]

So, Tom Cavanagh said something about a scene he's had in his back pocket for awhile and that they wrote it in to the finale so he was happy.

Not sure what it was though.

Another spoiler was that someone will double-cross Barry unexpectedly.

I wonder if those two things are related. Although, I'm fairly certain that any double-cross will be done with good intentions.

As for why the speedforce chose Barry but others still got powers: Barry needed some foes to make him faster and stronger. He needed Eobard to teach him and he needed to learn some life lessons from Zoom as well. Plus, Hunter did teach him how to throw lightning. Because he has competition, he has to get better and stronger so he will be able to do what is necessary when the time comes to save more people.

Of course, it is entirely possible that the entire speedforce interaction thing was simply a manifestation of Barry's subconscious and was his way of helping himself move forward.

[pookat]

If this spoiler article http://tvline.com/2016/05/18/the-flash-spoilers-season-2-finale-photos-zoom-captures-joe/

is to be believed, then OMG, no! I am already bored with the season finale. Does Zoom not have any moves beyond kidnapping and/or killing loved ones? Wells/Thawne was much more creative. This means that we either have lazy writing or a very lazy villain.

I am also irritated that of Zoom's many kidnappees, only Caitlyn gets damseled. PTSD is very real, but I really hate seeing TV and movies put women in the position of being victimized and suffering emotional distress afterward. Even Jessie whined about leaving her friends after being held in Zoom's cell for months while Barry and Wally both seemed to come out of being kidnapped with a desire to be even more heroic. Get it together when writing women, show!

[zannej]

I actually thought that Jesse came out relatively unscathed. After being held for *months* she should have seemed more affected by what happened. But apparently they weren't planning to keep her around quite as long as they have and it looks like she could be returning next season. Caitlin already had several emotional blows and then was held for several days by Zoom-- vs Wally being held for a few hours at most. Same with Barry. Neither one were held for a prolonged time. So, Caitlin being traumatized makes sense and I don't think it has to be about gender. Eddie was pretty shaken by his ordeal with being held by Eobard-- so much so that the felt the only way to be a hero was to kill himself. That's pretty depressing.

[Trini]

This week's DC All Access; new universe next season? Carlos seemed to tease that.

[Trini]

Is it weird we haven't heard anything from the producers/etc. about next season by now? Not even any comments about that potentially universe-changing cliffhanger. (And there weren't any producer previews for the last two episodes either.) I wonder if there's some shuffling of the crew going on behind the scenes....

Edited June 3, 2016 by Trini

[SevenStars]

7 hours ago, Trini said:

Is it weird we haven't heard anything from the producers/etc. about next season by now? Not even any comments about that potentially universe-changing cliffhanger. (And there wasn't any producer previews for the last two episodes either.) I wonder if there's some shuffling of the crew going on behind the scenes....

I hope see. Because I think we need new and better writers. This season was really bad except for a few episodes,  imo.

[Trini]

Finally, some casting news:

Quote

Question: Any hints on The Flash‘s Season 3 Big Bad? I’m hoping Mirror Master is introduced! —Mike

Ausiello: I’m seeing nothing firm (yet) on Mirror Master being introduced, but here’s a curious new breakdown to wrap your noodle around: For Season 3, the CW hit is casting the major recurring character of Barry’s slightly older, slightly geekier contemporary, a guy who is as smart as he is intuitive. As such, this newcomer doesn’t buy Barry’s nice guy routine and sets out to learn what he’s hiding — all while concealing some secrets of his own….

So a new CCPD officer? This better not be another secret villain.

-------

I'd really like to know if Wally is still going to be a regular next season.

[Maverick]

 I'm guessing a secret hero, kinda like the ATOM didn't like Green Arrow at first.  Not that The Flash would ever try to rehash an Arrow story or anything.