Father Gabriel: Knockin on Heaven's Door

[Pete Martell]

I'm one of the few who doesn't hate Gabriel, although it might be down to me seeing Seth Gilliam play a role just like this on Oz about 15 years ago, and never having seen him since (I haven't watched The Wire or Teen Wolf as of yet), so maybe I'm used to it.

 

The character is sniveling and weak and one could easily argue that he doesn't deserve to be alive, but since he is, I'm interested in where they will take him. I sort of liked that we had a character who was terrified of our group, finally realizing their basic decency when they did for him what he refused to do for others. 

 

I hope they avoid making him a generic badass, but also avoid having him continue to make the same mistakes and to be there to be afraid all the time. 

 

I also hope they won't give him too many speeches about faith or humanity. 

[maplebrew]

"Coda" suggests that he's the character who's blundering puts other people at risk. 

[Pete Martell]

"Coda" suggests that he's the character who's blundering puts other people at risk. 

 

I think that may have been done more as a crossroads for the character - he now knows the walkers are dangerous and that he has to be stronger, and that the group is trustworthy - but we'll see.

[maplebrew]

I hope you are right Pete Martell because it would be annoying if I were right. Rick & Co face enough stupid, meaningless death without having Gabriel accidently pushing people backwards into it as his sole purpose. 

[queenanne]

I really don't see what's the point in Gabriel, at this point I almost feel like he's comic relief.  That "Oh heavens!" old biddy careening around being horrified by everything CDB (and we!) take fully for granted about the ZA, like an installation of "Scary Movie".  We also already had a man of faith in Hershel, and I thought he explicated post-ZA religion well enough on his own, where we didn't need another retread.  That said, maybe this means there's going to be some more civilization-building and he will be the man of faith at the center of whatever faith-based initiative exists.

[nodorothyparker]

I sort of liked that we had a character who was terrified of our group, finally realizing their basic decency when they did for him what he refused to do for others.

 

I had a similar thought in the episode thread.  The one thing about him that I've found interesting at this point is also one of the few ideas that I've found genuinely interesting this half season.  Our group is looking damn terrifying to outsiders.  We as viewers know that Rick is more or less a good person because we've watched him now for five seasons.  But Gabriel doesn't know that.  He sees this filthy bearded wild-eyed man leading a group of also very scary looking people, all heavily armed.  Within hours of meeting, they've beaten other people to death on the floor of his church.  A day or so after that they tear hell out of the place and leave, possibly to go kill more people.

 

As silly as his escape through the floor was, I do like that it brought him full circle locked outside pounding on the door for the help that he denied his congregation.  And the scary people let him back in and kept him from being killed. 

Edited December 2, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[CletusMusashi]

Kindest thread title you could have offered him. I personally would have gone with "Why Isn't he Dead Yet?"

The show just seems too crowded to gratuitously make room for an awful character just so he can level up. I mean, we spent all those years putting up with Carl, and now that he doesn't completely suck, he gets like two minutes of screentime a week? And as soon as Eugene realizes that it's even easier to kill zombies than vehicles and allies, they sideline him, too. Tyreese used to be the one who didn't like violence, then he became darker and more pragmatic, and then they suddenly randomly neutered him to level the playing field for New Character #276474838373.

The reason I don't care if Father Pee Pants has potential or not is that he hasn't paid his dues, entertainment-wise. He hasn't earned my interest, to put it mildly. To put it more strongly, he somehow manages to be extremely boring and extremely annoying at the same time.  He's been a waste of screen time that could have been used on characters I was actually already interested in, but the writers don't want to play with their old toys any more. 

Holy crap do they like to play with their old symbols, though. How many episodes until he just happens to accidentally get a bunch of thorns wrapped around his head?

Edited December 2, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[Pete Martell]

The reason I don't care if Father Pee Pants has potential or not is that he hasn't paid his dues, entertainment-wise. He hasn't earned my interest, to put it mildly. To put it more strongly, he somehow manages to be extremely boring and extremely annoying at the same time.  He's been a waste of screen time that could have been used on characters I was actually already interested in, but the writers don't want to play with their old toys any more. 

 

I can see why you feel that way, as it's exactly how I felt (generally still feel) about Abraham.

 

I guess Gabriel doesn't bother me that way because I don't feel like he's taken all that much time from other characters. I feel like he was a way to show different perspectives on the group, and also to show how Michonne and Carl are both trying to bring something positive to the world. I think the problem is that in the airtime he's had, it's often been the same type of scene over and over, and no one really wants to see a character cowering all the time. 

 

I'm hoping that now that he trusts the group and knows he has to kill to survive, we'll start to see more sides of the character.

[GreyBunny]

I like the guy...the same way a cat likes to toy with a mouse. 

 

They have a whole band of people who know the ZA score and even Noah, who has been holed up in a hospital most of the time, can manage himself competently.  And then there's this guy, who they'll have to corral on a regular basis. 

 

He's weaselly and snivelly but he entertains me and I can't wait to see what other weird trouble he gets into.

Edited December 2, 2014 by GreyBunny

[RainOnToosdays]

He's weaselly and snivelly but he entertains me and I can't wait to see what other weird trouble he gets into.

I think everyone of them has done something in the past that was stupid or cowardly or morally questionable so I give him a pass because he amuses me, too. 

[CarpeDiem54]

I think everyone of them has done something in the past that was stupid or cowardly or morally questionable so I give him a pass because he amuses me, too.

Plus, he's good looking and reasonably clean.

[nodorothyparker]

Plus, he's good looking and reasonably clean.

 

On this show, that would go a long way.  Especially the reasonably clean part.

[GreyBunny]

That'll change soon.  I can almost imagine them chucking him into a mud pit as an initiation...and for their own amusement.  I would. *devil horns*

[BrokenRemote]

I think it's interesting, this character that's basically dropped from the 'normal world' to the Apocolypse 18 months in because he's been sheltered and secluded. As though someone could have been in Rick's coma for an extended period and just woken up to the end of the world.

It's basically a fluke that he's alive, and we're kind of seeing our heroes and the world they've helped shape through new, untainted eyes. I'm willing to cut the character some slack and see where things are going with him.

I hope they don't turn him into a badass. I prefer if not everyone is a super-awesome killing machine. If they're all the same then it's less interesting for me.

[Mattipoo]

Father Gabriel is the most annoying character to me since Dale in season 1. He just walks around with his bug eyes being scared of everything and running back to the camp dinner bell folks hoping to be rescued. I haven't seen the actor in anything else, but is he really a good actor or is it that playing the Father Gabriel character requires him to give the same expression in every scene?

Edited December 5, 2014 by Mattipoo

[AngelaHunter]

I personally would have gone with "Why Isn't he Dead Yet?"

 

 

Father Gabriel is the most annoying character to me since Dale in season 1. He just walks around with his bug eyes being scared of everything and running back to the camp dinner bell folks hoping to be rescued.

 

I find PP MORE annoying than I did Dale, and he really bugged me. If we have to continue to watch him freaking out, sweating and screwing his face up in a look of terror, he can't die soon enough for me.

 

I don't know why he's so scared anyway. I guess  he doesn't trust his God to protect him after all, although I bet that's what he harped about to his dearly departed congregation. In addition to everything else I hate about him, he's a hypocrite too.

[BrokenRemote]

Yeah, but there are hypocrites and idiots and cowards with annoying faces in the real world.  I guess that's my point.  What's the fun of a group of people all with wonderful personalities, beautiful faces, sterling characters and brave hearts facing off against one evil person after another?  There are people in real life we hate on sight.  So I guess that's the line for me. I can hate characters, but I don't necessarily want to see them off my TV if the actors are good and the character is realistic, even if he's realistically annoying.  And in my mind we haven't seen enough of Gabriel yet to know if the actor is any good or if there's more to the character than pants-wetting fear.  If he goes on to show nothing more of himself in the second half of the season, then he's not realistic and he's badly acted and/or written, and that's a different thing altogether.

 

Plus, who would we make fun of if the characters were all wonderful?

[JBody]

...snip...

Holy crap do they like to play with their old symbols, though. How many episodes until he just happens to accidentally get a bunch of thorns wrapped around his head?

Exactly!! When he got that self-imposed stigmata with stepping on the nail I cringed and looked away from sheer embarrassment for the writing. I don't usually harp on the writing but that was just baaaaaad.

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

Plus, who would we make fun of if the characters were all wonderful?

 

Point taken!;)

 

Actually, there aren't very many I've wanted to make fun of. As I mentioned, Dale got on my last nerve and was part of the reason I stopped watching in Se02, and now I just really hate

 

 

and FPP, so much that I was wishing Michonne didn't hack open the door for him. Instead I wish she had said - as Rick did to the prisoner he locked out in the yard with the zombies - "You better run, Father Pee!"

[GreyBunny]

I want to see a scene where Gabriel, Eugene, and Tyreese are sat down and made to take a remedial zombie killing class.  Taught by Carol.

[Ocean Chick]

Heeeeeeee.  I'd pay money to see that scene.  With Carl as teacher's assistant.

[CletusMusashi]

Plus, who would we make fun of if the characters were all wonderful?

In my opinion, characters we can make fun of are not exactly in short supply.

Edited December 6, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[kikismom]

In my opinion, characters we can make fun of are not exactly in short supply.

If anyone never understood the phrase "an embarrassment of riches", you get it now.

[editorgrrl]

From the Entertainment Weekly recap of Season 5, Episode 12, "Remember":

Father Gabriel is nowhere in this episode. (Did anyone see him? I didn’t. I’m also not sure if this is ominous, or if perhaps Seth Gilliam just wasn’t on set that day and they tried to cleverly conceal it.)

[Nashville]

From the Entertainment Weekly recap of Season 5, Episode 12, "Remember":

Perhaps even more significant - the ambiguity of FPP's presence had absolutely no effect on the story line whatsoever.

[CletusMusashi]

Until next week, when we find out he was near an open gate, saw a herd of zombies 2000 feet away,and was so scared that he climbed a tree and left the gate open. Much as I like having him out of my sight, I don't trust him out of my sight. He's worse than Carl used to be.

[Nashville]

Until next week, when we find out he was near an open gate, saw a herd of zombies 2000 feet away,and was so scared that he climbed a tree and left the gate open.

No no no no no.

That's not FPP's MO at all.

FPP would push the gate open (injuring himself in the process, of course) then run/hobble inside screaming - leaving the gate open, and drawing the herd inside with him in the process.

[festivus]

I guess this is the best place to ask: Where did Father Pee Pants come from?  I think it's funny when I read it but I have no idea why he's called that.

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

Where did Father Pee Pants come from?

 

It came about because his default position is terror - of everything - to the point of wetting his pants. See below for example.;p

 

 

I didn't even realize we didn't see hide nor hair of him this episode, unless he's learned to camouflage himself to the point of invisibility, or he was hiding in the bathroom.

[mandolin]

Just re watched. Saw FPP in the background when they go in the gates and once in the house. Harder to spot him without the collar. He just kind of blends in.

[AngelaHunter]

Harder to spot him without the collar.

 

And when he's not puking or crying or  peeing in fear.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

And when he's not puking or crying or  peeing in fear.

 

Or sneaking out just to look at a pack of playing cards and pieces of Bob;  moronically endangering himself and defenseless babies in the process.

[Pete Martell]

Just re watched. Saw FPP in the background when they go in the gates and once in the house. Harder to spot him without the collar. He just kind of blends in.

 

I noticed him once and mostly thought he looked kind of hot...the anguished "my shirt is open just a little because I'm no longer worthy of God" look suits him.

[festivus]

Thanks. I totally didn't notice that he peed himself. I was thinking maybe the name came from an old role of the actors and I've never seen any of his previous work.

[Pete Martell]

I don't think he ever actually wet his pants. The name does make me laugh though.

[Constantinople]

I'm wondering what job Deanna will give him

 

1. Town minister - Not sure if they need one or already have one.  I'm also not sure it would be a full time job in Alexandria.

 

2. Guard duty - He may not be a good shot, but he sure knows how to lock things out.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I'm wondering what job Deanna will give him

 

1. Town minister - Not sure if they need one or already have one.  I'm also not sure it would be a full time job in Alexandria.

 

2. Guard duty - He may not be a good shot, but he sure knows how to lock things out.

 

... while singing softly, "I hear you knockin' at my back door, but you can't come in"

[Nashville]

... while singing softly, "I hear you knockin' at my back door, but you can't come in"

More like That's the night that the lights went out in Georgia....

[kj4ever]

Father Gabriel is the most annoying character to me since Dale in season 1. He just walks around with his bug eyes being scared of everything and running back to the camp dinner bell folks hoping to be rescued. I haven't seen the actor in anything else, but is he really a good actor or is it that playing the Father Gabriel character requires him to give the same expression in every scene?

Father Gabriel makes me yearn to have Dale back, and I HATED him.  It was funny on The Talking Dead asshat Kirkman seemed genuinely surprised that people did not like FPP and was incredibly defensive of his character.  Just shows how out of touch that man is.

[Constantinople]

Father Gabriel may not win the ZA Humanitarian of the Year Award, nor, so far, has he been particularly useful.

 

But he's one of the few Episcopalian priests on TV -- the only other one I can think of is on Gracepoint, and that's only because Gracepoint was the American do-over of Broadchurch Season 1 -- so I'll take whatever I can get.

[editorgrrl]

"We are so blessed to have you!"

How long before Deanna finds out what happened to Fr. Gabriel's last congregation? Then again, he behaved just like Aiden, Nicholas & Tobin—panic, save your own ass, and the hell with everybody else.

[Pete Martell]

"We are so blessed to have you!"

How long before Deanna finds out what happened to Fr. Gabriel's last congregation? Then again, he behaved just like Aiden, Nicholas & Tobin—panic, save your own ass, and the hell with everybody else.

 

I almost wonder if that's why they had him going on about how he was supposed to be there, that he was "good" like them.

 

The writing for this character is just AWFUL. I have no idea how I am supposed to feel about him. Is he projecting his own sins onto the group? Or is he just scheming? Is he supposed to be our heavy-handed reminder that many in the group are no longer "good" people?

 

Having this drop in out of nowhere after 3-4 episodes of being all but MIA really did the character and story a huge disservice. 

 

I've tried my best to defend this character, but I can't defend that type of cowardice, especially since it's so poorly defined and so confusing. It just feels like they realized someone had to make Deanna even less trustworthy of the group, so he got the role.

[Constantinople]

Father Gabriel, you may be one of the only Episcopalian priests on TV, but you've gone too far.

 

I'm excommunicating you.

[CletusMusashi]

At the beginning, all I could think while he was tearing up that bible was "Wow, Sinead O'Conner's really been hitting the tanning beds."

At the end, all I could think was "Kill him right now! Worry about Pete next week."

Shane had an interesting story. Season 3 Brillip had an interesting story. Hell, even Lori sort of had an interesting story.

FPP is not only an albatross, he's a kind of a boring albatross. Yes, he slows the heroes down, and being slowed down can be dramatic, but the same could be accomplished by having a rainstorm make the ground really muddy. I don't want to watch people struggling every week to pull their boots out of the mud, and I don't want to watch them struggling every week for the dubious privilege of sharing a series with Father Pee Pants.

Oh, if he dies, I will miss the nickname. But it's a fair trade. Kill him immediately please.

[Nashville]

At the beginning, all I could think while he was tearing up that bible was "Wow, Sinead O'Conner's really been hitting the tanning beds."

 

Damn.  that was good.

[CletusMusashi]

If he's going to be a crazy doomsayer, can't they at least let him be a little more meta?

"I know They seem kind, but you must understand. The lord has a special plan for them. We're living in the third book of the bible right now, and They are his chosen people. And the rest of us... aren't. Every place They go, horrible things happen immediately, because that's God's way of testing Them. Have you ever heard the story of what happened to Job's servants? No? Well, I ripped that page out of my bible this morning and stomped on it. Don't ask. But, basically... you remember those guys on Star Trek who had the red shirts? That's everybody Rick and his friends come in contact with. He doesn't mean to bring death and suffering, but it follows him everywhere, because apparently that's the story God wants to tell. Why do you think your generator broke as soon as those people even looked at it?"

[Nashville]

If he's going to be a crazy doomsayer, can't they at least let him be a little more meta?

"I know They seem kind, but you must understand. The lord has a special plan for them. We're living in the third book of the bible right now, and They are his chosen people. And the rest of us... aren't. Every place They go, horrible things happen immediately, because that's God's way of testing Them. Have you ever heard the story of what happened to Job's servants? No? Well, I ripped that page out of my bible this morning and stomped on it. Don't ask. But, basically... you remember those guys on Star Trek who had the red shirts? That's everybody Rick and his friends come in contact with. He doesn't mean to bring death and suffering, but it follows him everywhere, because apparently that's the story God wants to tell. Why do you think your generator broke as soon as those people even looked at it?"

Throw in a Black Hitler reference or two, and you're good to go.

[maplebrew]

I don't think the FPP nickname is too harsh anymore. 

[CletusMusashi]

Why do you think we didn't see him for so long? It took that long to wash the urine smell out of his holy-pants,

[Nashville]

Why do you think we didn't see him for so long? It took that long to wash the urine smell out of his holy-pants,

 

Echo echo.  The gold stains clash with the black.  Unless you're a Vandy fan.