The Writers of OUAT: Because, Um, Magic, That's Why

[Curio]

There are glaring continuity problems between scripts.  I can point two things off the top of my head. Back in 4x11, Hook said that Emma told him about Anna and Belle when he was actually standing right there when Belle came rushing into the sheriff's station.

 

Don't forget when Hook told Belle he hadn't seen the dagger since "Heroes and Villains" when he could clearly see it during "Darkness on the Edge of Town" during the fairy de-hatting scene. Maybe living so long of a life has caused him to start losing his short term memory skills.

 

Oooh, the new writer likes Doctor Who! I'll take that as a good sign!

 

And Breaking Bad. Another good sign.

[Souris]

If she likes Scully AND Breaking Bad, surely she knows of Vince Gilligan. I hope she emulates him.

[Shanna Marie]

The second thing is the whole Apprentice thing.  They should technically all have known about him.  His damned picture was on the board in the library at the start of 4x12. That could also be the prop people, but don't all these people talk to each other?

Even aside from that, they mentioned the old man who got hatted back when they were looking at the board in the library, when Hook was all frantic to undo all the things Rumple forced him to do. Blue was able to de-hat him without a problem when they asked her. So why didn't they ask her before now? Mostly because if the Apprentice had been around sooner, he could have told them that letting the Author out was a bad idea, and he might have had time to do something about Rumple's darkening heart, so it wouldn't have reached a crisis point. But that's Idiot Plotting, where the characters have to be dumb and not do the obvious things that anyone would do in order to make the plot work.

[Souris]

New writer says Vince Gilligan is one of her heroes & every writer she knows wants to eat his brains.

[FurryFury]

Oooh, the new writer likes Doctor Who! I'll take that as a good sign!

Eh, Doctor Who has had so many showrunners and plots and characters that I can't say her liking or hating it tells me anything about her.

Personally, I loved RTD's Doctor Who, warts and all (definitely in my top 5 favorite shows of all time), but I can't stand Moffat's take on it. They are completely different in their approaches.

 

I think it's too early to judge this writer anyway. 

Edited May 13, 2015 by FurryFury

[YaddaYadda]

New writer says Vince Gilligan is one of her heroes & every writer she knows wants to eat his brains.

And sadly that means nothing.  I'm sure A&E are huge fans of Vince Gilligan's too, but look at the way they run their show.

[HoodlumSheep]

The new writer says her favorite Doctor is DT, which is from the RTD era, right? I'm following her on twitter now. I'll shamelessly admit that I'm trying to get a read on her. She seems very nice.

[FurryFury]

Year, Tennant was #10, he and Nine were in RTD's era.

But then, DT is a lot of people's favorite doctor, so no wonders here.

[Camera One]

Only one question is asked during the job interview: "Who is your favorite character."  And yes, there is a right answer.

[stealinghome]

Just chiming in to say that I agree that one new writer isn't going to make a bit of difference in the writing room once way or another--even if she's totally realistic and logical about the show, as the newbie she'll get shouted down. Probably the most we can hope for is that the new writer can generate some snappy dialogue! (And that she's not a total asshole on twitter.)

 

Also, I don't think Kalinda Vazquez is that bad--she has about a 50% hit rate, which on this show isn't bad at all. If we exclude 4B because of everyone's combined crappiness: yeah, she had a hand in Selfless, Brave, and True, which was crap (though I think Robert Hull is an awful writer so I wonder how much of that episode is on him), and Tiny, which was meh. But she also had a hand in Into the Deep, which I thought was one of 2A's most exciting episodes (better than Queen of Hearts, actually), and Lost Girl, which was one of S3's standout episodes. I really enjoyed some parts of Dark Hollow--the Belle/Ariel team-up was to die for!--Kansas wasn't awful and actually had some nice moments (I assume the Regina Is The Lightest Ever crap came from on high, and aside from that the episode was pretty quality), and ditto for Family Business.

 

Quiet Minds and Breaking Glass I give her a pass on. For Quiet Minds, she DEFINITELY drew the short end of the episode assignment stick--how the hell do you make that episode's plot work? And it was her first solo script for the show, which imo is doubly unfair a task to put on someone. The problems with Breaking Glass I chalk up to Nimerfro's Regina permaboner, since I don't think Vazquez particularly cares for Regina (which is probably why she left!).

Edited May 14, 2015 by stealinghome

[Serena]

I agree. I actually thought Quiet Minds wasn't bad, writing wise. The Rumplebae sharing bodies thing was ridiculous and not even Shakespeare could make it look good.

[HoodlumSheep]

My main problem with Quiet Minds was the choppiness of it. It didn't flow. As for stuff that happened in the episode itself, I didn't mind it at all.

Edited May 14, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[stealinghome]

I remember thinking the first half of Quiet Minds was actually quite strong--the episode only fell apart when the bodysharing stuff came to the fore. Which, you know. No way to make that play well at all.

[FurryFury]

I know I'm shallow but the thing that I remember the best about Quiet Minds is Belle's awful hot pants. Well, and Neal dying of his own stupidity, of course. And then the show never really treated that as his fault, but Zelena's, which is all kinds of WTF.

[Souris]

The new writer tweeted that it's six days until the Once room opens -- I presume that means when the writers go back.

[Mathius]

Unpopular opinion that's recently solidified for me: this show's writers are actually not an anamoly. There are many, many, many shows both current and past that have had writing teams just as weak as this one. Here's the big kicker: "Game of Thrones" has often been used as an example of a "better" fantasy show...and I think its writers suck just as hard as Once's. Everything successful and brilliant about the show's writing isn't because of the three writers (Weiss, Benioff and Cogman), it's because of George R.R Martin's source material. The deviations and original material written by the actual show writers has gotten worse and worse and worse, very uninspired and unoriginal and generally uncalled for, as of the latest episode many have actually begun to take note of this. So yeah, bottom line: TS, TW may be uncalled for, since "TW" is not a unique syndrome to this show. Sadly, it's everywhere.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Mathius

[Faemonic]

Unpopular opinion that's recently solidified for me: this show's writers are actually not an anamoly. There are many, many, many shows both current and past that have had writing teams just as weak as this one. Here's the big kicker: "Game of Thrones" has often been used as an example of a "better" fantasy show...and I think its writers suck just as hard as Once's. Everything successful and brilliant about the show's writing isn't because of the three writers (Weiss, Benioff and Cogman), it's because of George R.R Martin's source material. The deviations and original material written by the actual show writers has gotten worse and worse and worse, very uninspired and unoriginal and generally uncalled for, as of the latest episode many have actually begun to take note of this. So yeah, bottom line: TS, TW may be uncalled for, since "TW" is not a unique syndrome to this show. Sadly, it's everywhere.

Both GoT and OUaT are basically well-funded fantasy fanfiction. From GoT, I like that Arya gets to have conversations with Brienne and Tywin that didn't happen in the books. From OUaT, I like Warlord Bo-Peep, and werewolf Red Riding Hood, and ex-navy Captain Hook, and Prince Charming being a dad.

 

I am definitely not a fan of all the raping going on and the unanimous response of the writers from both shows basically being, "What is this 'rape' you speak of?"

 

But when it comes to continuity, I have never been as bothered by a show as OUaT. "She poisoned an apple because she thought I was prettier than her" I can let slide because that was the pilot. Emma's age when she gave birth to Henry, I don't think that hard about. I don't think that hard about television shows. I don't. I. Don't. But everything else in OUaT, from the tone of the overall show per episode to the character voices to the most crucial plot points, it's been like having darts thrown at me from blindfolded people on a rotating carousel--and I have never gotten that feeling from any other show that I have ever watched.

[ParadoxLost]

I sometimes think the writer(s) are the reincarnation of Charles M. Schulz,

 

I feel like I'm Charlie Brown and the show is Lucy with the football.  The writers have a tendency to keep chugging along.  They try to convey a redemption or development of the relationship and when the audience doesn't buy in, they just keep going instead of going back and reinforcing the change until the audience gets on board.

 

So week to week, I find myself ready to give in out of frustration  to whatever nonsense I've been complaining about for six months and then they move the ball to something I can't accept.  OK, Regina is redeemed.  Why did she just kill a village?  Steal Belle's heart?  OK, Emma and Regina are getting along to co-parent Henry? Now she's Emma's life coach on not going Dark, just no.  OK, Outlaw Queen are twu luv.  And Robin had sex with Zelena posing as Marian days after leaving Storybrooke, never mind.

 

Outlaw Queen are a peculiar case.  They have reset that relationship so many times and they never decide that this time they'll spend time on building up the relationship so maybe someone can get invested in it.  No, its just Robin and Regina get in proximity to each other and they are in love again.

[Faemonic]

KaosAgent wrote on the Operation Mongoose thread:

 

it's so damn hard sometimes to have a conversation about characters' choices/actions when what they're saying is clearly a writing thing and not what the character actually thinks or believes.

 

YES. Yes to this. This is...yes. This ^ THIS ^^^ yes.

 

To put more it in more than two words, some pedantic wannabe-literati part of my brain tells me that the character can only ever be made up of how they are written in a specific body of work, but the biggest problem is that the flaws in the writing suspend disbelief like an iron balloon. That does make it difficult to have a fandom conversation about favorite characters when we keep being reminded that they're merely characters.

 

In somewhat related news, Jill Bearup has

, in the second part she basically sums it up with: "dialogue is very, very important...but so are structure and logic. You can't just have witty banter. You have to have a sequence of events which, when put together, make sense..."

 

With continuity, I'm also wondering about Nealfire's coconut. In one episode, it was a coded star map. In the next episode, it was a coded star map that Hook got David to drink the Fountain Of Youth with by saying that Liam's sextant could decode it. In the episode after that, it's not a star map at all but a shadow-catcher. All Nealfire says about it is that it's not a star map. At all. So...where was the sextant all this time? Did Hook toss it overboard along with everybody's clothes after he burnt the Pegasus sail?

 

I liked the Neverland arc, but it seems to me that the writing could have been tighter? It was also funny how everybody was tolerant of Hook until Hook's Very Special Flashback Episode, which indicated to me that the OUAT Writer's Room just might not communicate a lot with each other...I'm remembering when Nimerfro went #TeamJane Champion of Swan Queen who "fights harder for you than anyone" and A or E stepped in with basically don't listen to Scott there is no fighting in the Writer's Room!

 

Well, I believe them. If there's no butting heads, as the showrunners said, it's probably because there's no meeting of the minds either.

 

I keep reminding myself that these are professionals, as in they've got deadlines and executive notes and twitter kerfuffles to contend with, but as a viewer I'm seeing that even the most general structure is half-baked by the time it's filmed and aired. They're doing well enough with seasons chopped into halves, each with a clear central conflict, buildup, climax, and resolution--but everything more nuanced than that makes little to no sense.

[OnceUponAJen]

I have great hopes for S5A at least because, like in the Neverland arc, I'm hoping that mission #SaveEmma will unite the characters in a common goal like #SaveHenry did in S3. I liked seeing everyone work together to get to Neverland, find Henry and get home. It didn't feel overly rushed to me, and we got some good character moments out of it.

[Shanna Marie]

I keep reminding myself that these are professionals, as in they've got deadlines and executive notes and twitter kerfuffles to contend with, but as a viewer I'm seeing that even the most general structure is half-baked by the time it's filmed and aired.

As a professional with deadlines, editorial notes, etc., I have to agree that the writing comes across as half-baked. They seem to write like they're doing "seat of the pants" writing, without planning or outlining, just writing to see what happens, but you can't do that when you're essentially "publishing" each chapter as it's written. It seems like they need to do a lot more planning and working out the plot in detail before they break it into episodes and start writing.

 

Otherwise, you get stuff like the Author plot, where what's going on with it keeps changing without the characters seeming to notice -- Regina getting it as a wacky idea from staring at the book, and all that talk about it being the Author's fault that she doesn't have a happy ending, that she's a villain because she was written that way, even going so far as to say that the book is actually wrong about her. And then suddenly this turns into something that apparently all the villains have known about all along. But then they create the Author as a character and show that Regina and Henry's plan to rewrite the book is actually wrong, that the Author got punished for trying to do that. And then the ultimate conclusion is that you're responsible for your own happy ending (duh), and it's an act of villainy to rewrite the book -- but nobody even seems to realize that this was actually their plan all along. Rumple just usurped it.

 

It comes across like they got a whim, wrote it into an episode, then later got another idea and added that to an episode, and then created a plot around it for a whole arc, threw in a few more things, then got to the end and realized it didn't work and wrote a different outcome. You can do that with a novel because you can go back to the beginning and make adjustments along the way. Once you get to Regina realizing she wrote her own happy ending and rewriting the book is bad, you can go back and adjust it along the way, like letting someone else with an agenda give Regina the idea or having the other characters question it. But once an episode is aired, you're stuck with what you've written, so you'd better be prepared to carry it through -- or better, have it planned and outlined before you even start. I can't imagine that what we got was the outcome of a plan that was thoroughly developed from the start. If it is, that's even worse.

[kili]

With continuity, I'm also wondering about Nealfire's coconut. In one episode, it was a coded star map. In the next episode, it was a coded star map that Hook got David to drink the Fountain Of Youth with by saying that Liam's sextant could decode it. In the episode after that, it's not a star map at all but a shadow-catcher. All Nealfire says about it is that it's not a star map. At all. So...where was the sextant all this time? Did Hook toss it overboard along with everybody's clothes after he burnt the Pegasus sail?

 

I actually don't see that as a continuity error at all. Hook saw the coconut and guessed it was a star map. Whe he was in the navy, he was the navigator on the ship. As a captain, navigation is important. So, he sees lights on the ceiling and he thinks "star map". Somebody else might have looked at it and seen morse code that needed to be decrypted in order to escape. Somebody else might have seen a pixelated picture of a toadstool and assumed that is what they needed to use to escape.  I actually kind of like that they guessed wrong. I often have to suspend disbelief when people find a clue and instantly know what it is.

 

As for the sextant, Hook out-and-out admitted in the episode that he lied about the entire thing. He had the piece of leather in his jacket as a momento and simply tossed it on the ground. He cooked up the crazy story about the sextant (which fit with his guess about the star map). He needed a way to get David to come unprotestingly with him and Hook had figured him out enough that he knew that David would be willing to go on one last mission to save the group (and die away from his family). Hook may still have the original sextant or it broke and he has a new one now. Maybe he threw it overboard when he finally escaped Neverland for good and no longer needed to navigate by those stars. He did have a sextant in Season 3 when he tried to teach Henry how to use one (when Henry had no memories) and Henry asked if it was like a GPS - although, it is implied in the show that different sextants use different stars - I thought they used the sun and that's why navigators tend to go blind over time).

 

Anyway, the sextant could have been a magical bean for all it mattered. Hook just needed something believable that would get David up that mountain.

[Faemonic]

 I actually kind of like that they guessed wrong. I often have to suspend disbelief when people find a clue and instantly know what it is.

There was Snow White guessing that it was a miniature colander, which was a wrong guess but at least was a different guess. After Emma and Hook decided that it was a star map, everyone just seemed to agree that that was what it was, and didn't even ask Nealfire if they were right. They don't have to instantly know what it is, but they didn't wonder...and it didn't end up even mattering what it is. The only explanation that Nealfire provided for it was 1.) it wasn't a star map, and 2.) Hook's ship is magic so this coconut can be magic too.

 

I don't know, other shows I've watched that have magic items and a big reveal about the nature of it can get this reaction from me: "Of course! Oh, no!" Or, if it's a good thing that it's really got so-and-so function, "Of course! Hurrah!"

 

In this case, it was a slow, "...o...kaaay...?" And the feeling that there wasn't much cohesion.

 

 

Which was fine, because characterization still made sense back then and was more important anyway. 'Scuse me a mo. (Offscreen mournful wail.)

Edited May 28, 2015 by Faemonic

[Dani-Ellie]

I used to have this little mini-planetarium contraption that projected the night sky on the ceiling in a dark room. Before I went to sleep at night, I used to like looking at the stars and trying to spot constellations (or even find some of my own ... I was a kid). When Neal said the coconut wasn't a map, I assumed it was something he fashioned for himself along the same idea as the mini-planetarium I had or even the glow-in-the-dark plastic stars kid tack to the ceiling in their bedrooms, since he was a kid when he did it.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Dani-Ellie

[Rumsy4]

Aww... that's such a sweet headcanon. So many missed opportunities in the Neverland arc.

[Shanna Marie]

When Neal said the coconut wasn't a map, I assumed it was something he fashioned for himself along the same idea as the mini-planetarium I had or even the glow-in-the-dark plastic stars kid tack to the ceiling in their bedrooms, since he was a kid when he did it.

That would make sense. Would he have known about trapping a shadow when he made it, or did he use something he had handy to trap the Shadow? And if it was a trap, why was it still in his cave when he must have used it to get away? Or was that his spare Shadow trap?

 

I didn't see the map/Shadow trap thing as a continuity issue. It was more like Hook guessing it was a map that was coded because he was the one who taught Bae, then them running into Neal and asking how he got away, thinking it had something to do with the map, and him telling them he trapped the Shadow.

 

There have been so many other continuity issues with this show, but that one makes some sense (aside from the question of why the thing he used to trap the Shadow so he could escape would still be in his cave).

[yeswedo]

Folks, please take continuity discussions to the Continuity and Nitpicks thread. Thanks.

[KAOS Agent]

When I say that the characters say stuff that's more writing/plot issue than actual character thoughts, I'm talking more about the stuff a character says that's used to mislead us into thinking something that within a few episodes is shown to be completely false or nonsensical given the character's actions. Rumpel is often used in this misdirect role since he's so often all seeing/knowing or a part of the scheming that's going on.

 

For example, there's this conversation in "Enter the Dragon"

Rumpel: When war hits Storybrooke, everyone's gonna have to pick a side including Regina.

QOD: And what war is that?

Rumpel: Oh, the one we're about to start. And tonight... We're gonna throw the first punch.

 

The whole plan in 4B is Rumpel's creation. He knows exactly what's going to go down. So what the hell is this "war" he's talking about? It's nonsense. It's only there to create some sort of drama in the audience. It's why you can't ever parse what Rumpel in particular says about a plan because it's so often false. Or take his conversation with Ingrid in "Rocky Road"

 

Rumpel: Did Miss Swan remember you?

Ingrid: No.

Rumpel: That's good for you. Because it could happen. And you wouldn't want that now, would you?

 

Two episodes later, Emma finds out about Ingrid and the following morning, Ingrid plants all of Emma's school stuff and cards for her to find. Her whole plan involved Emma remembering her and the good times. She wanted to recreate her loving sisters. The writing was done to make it seem all ominous and that it would be really bad if Emma remembered. The reality was completely opposite. And Emma knowing or not didn't make a whit of difference to Ingrid's plan or the story at large.

 

Red herrings or misdirects are one thing, but the way a lot of the dialogue is written to be deliberately wrong renders a lot of the early episodes worthless. None of the information contained in them is correct. There's no need for Rumpel to say incorrect things to the people he's talking to in the above situations, so it should be presumed that what he's saying is the truth. That he's not is a huge writing issue. It makes the things that happen later come out of left field and leaves you with more of a Wtf? than an Aha! moment. 

Edited May 29, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[Shanna Marie]

Red herrings or misdirects are one thing, but the way a lot of the dialogue is written to be deliberately wrong renders a lot of the early episodes worthless. None of the information contained in them is correct. There's no need for Rumpel to say incorrect things to the people he's talking to in the above situations, so it should be presumed that what he's saying is the truth. That he's not is a huge writing issue. It makes the things that happen later come out of left field and leaves you with more of a Wtf? than an Aha! moment.

Those are those scenes that are almost like they're written for the trailers and promos rather than written for the actual episodes and having anything at all to do with the story. There's no reason within the context of the episode for Rumple to be giving the "Regina's going to have to pick a side in the war ... that we're about to start!" speech. There was no war at all. He wasn't planning a war. The QOD never asked when that war he promised was going to start. There wasn't even really anything all that much generally adversarial about what they were going to do. But take the scene out of context and it makes a great moment for a trailer.

 

I also think there's a difference between continuity issues and bad planning. I don't actually think the starmap/Shadow trap is a continuity issue. The various timeline problems are continuity issues. But stuff like the Author plot and the way it zings all over the place without making much sense strikes me as bad plotting, where they didn't work it out in detail before they started and ended up making it up as they went, totally disregarding what they'd already said about it.

[KingOfHearts]

Oh, yes. Don't forget...

Rumple: "Better seek shelter... it's getting quite frosty out."

Ingrid: "And Sidney - get a warm coat. Things are going to be getting a bit chilly around here."

What were they even talking about? Ingrid never froze Storybrooke over. There wasn't even a blizzard.

Edited May 29, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I had to laugh reading these posts.  It is very true that a lot of the dialogue seems to be written solely to create a sense of mystery but is never followed up on.  The way the writers decide to parse out information seems random and nonsensical.  I'm thinking of the 4B premiere when they had this conversation with Blue (sorry about the transcription... some of the lines stated as Regina may have been Henry or Emma).

 

 

 

BLUE: Where did you get this?

REGINA: The sorcerer's mansion.Henry found dozens of these blank books there.
BLUE: The sorcerer is here?

REGINA: Well, his house is, but we haven't found him yet.
BLUE: You're looking for him?

REGINA: Well, I was hoping he could Write me a happy ending.  But that book seems to have great power.
BLUE: Oh, it does.
REGINA: So I thought if he rewrote it... I know it sounds crazy.
BLUE: It's not crazy at all.  But you're looking for the wrong person.  Although the sorcerer is a very powerful wizard, you should be looking for the author.
EMMA: Aren't they the same person? Why would the sorcerer have the author's books?

BLUE: That is a quite perplexing question.  And I'm afraid I do not know.  But I do know that they are two very different people.  

REGINA: So You know who the author is.
BLUE: No. But I do know he exists.  I mean, if he is a "he.  " I've never actually seen him.  In fact, no one has.  Not for many years.

 

This conversation seems designed to make it seem like it's all a big mystery when I am not convinced Blue wouldn't have known more, given what we saw later in 4B (the Author walking around in the Enchanted Forest, bumping into Snow and Charming... that's not all that long ago).  The dumb Apprentice was visiting and sharing info with Lily and August, for pity's sakes.  

Edited May 29, 2015 by Camera One

[sharky]

Matt Weiner talked a bit about this on a recent Nerdist podcast. He believes you don't have to always stuff things with the element of surprise but when you do plant those things, they have to have a payoff, which doesn't always happen with this show.

Also, I've been checking out the new writer Brigitte's Twitter feed. Ah, what a breath of fresh air compared to Scott. She posts pictures from there office and when a fan asked about a map on the wall for Steveston, she actually said she would check if it's possible to get a bigger version. She just seems giddy about being there so far, which makes me wonder when her soul is going to get crushed and if it will be done by A&E or the fans. Also, she's a Mulder/Scully shipper so yea, I like her.

[Souris]

I just saw a giant Hook board pic in her office and her showing her fangirling out and now it's gone.

 

I still see it.

[rumidha]

Buzzfeed had an article this morning called 51 TV Writers Reveal Their Favorite Thing They’ve Ever Written.

 

Eddie and Adam are 31 and 32. I've included it below for people who don't want to have to scroll, or are not in the mood for a picture of ridiculously adorable 10 year old Henry.

At the very end of the pilot episode of Once Upon a Time, there is a moment when our 10-year-old protagonist, Henry, stares out the window of his bedroom at the Storybrooke town clock tower. It’s been frozen since the cursed town came into existence years earlier. As he stares at it in the wake of the arrival of his mother, Emma, the clock finally comes alive and ticks. Henry smiles. That small moment encapsulated everything the show was about and still is to this day: hope.

We consciously decided that we didn’t want to end the pilot on a traditional “cliffhanger” or “twist” — we hoped there were enough turns in the story to have engaged the audience already. Instead we really wanted to focus on the “feeling” we hoped to leave with our viewers. In many ways it was a direct descendant of a moment we wrote years earlier on Lost, in an episode where Hurley found an old VW Bus on the island. The story simply became about starting the van — but it was really about hope. The catharsis Hurley felt, and by extension the audience felt, when the impossible happened and the ancient van revved to life was an important epiphany for us as writers. Since then we’ve always strived to find a well of emotion in the simplest of moments. For Once Upon a Time, it has now become our ongoing mantra to keep the show unabashedly hopeful and uncyncial. To always search in every episode for what we call our “clock tick” moment.

 

 

 

[daxx]

Ok, I'll give them that one. To this day that scene always gives me chills. It was very well done.

[Camera One]

Since then we’ve always strived to find a well of emotion in the simplest of moments.

 

And these simplest of moments requires the most convoluted setups imaginable?

 

To always search in every episode for what we call our “clock tick” moment.

 

That clock hasn't ticked for a very long time.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Camera One

[Selina K]

This works if by simple moments they mean juxtaposing Rumple's 300 years of plans revolving around a Rube Goldberg level of complexity against the simple plan of Hook outruning the curse and trading his ship for a bean to decide who wanted to get to the land without magic more.

 

 I will give them credit for Hurley's van.  That was an awesome feel good moment in Lost.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Selina K

[KingOfHearts]

Henry's clock moment was a very good ending to the pilot. It was a scene that combined character development (Henry's hope) and plot movement (the clock moving) in a seamless way. They've completely forgotten how to write like that. Now plot gets in the way of the deepest and most intimate of moments.

Without going off too far on a tangent, S4 had this problem throughout. You had Regina and Henry discussing how she feels about her past, then it's interrupted with the August revelation that got its "segway" from frosted donut crumbs. What was going on with the characters and what happened in the plot had no relevance with each other. Another time was when Belle and Henry were finally talking to each other about stuff in their lives, only to quickly stumble upon the gauntlet before covering any real ground in their family dynamic. There was also that scene where Emma and Hook were talking about August, then the sleeping spell comes over them to show what it was doing. The list goes on.

You don't have to sacrifice the plot to include character development. Rather, the characters drive the story. They should be what keeps things going. Random findings like crazy gauntlets should be used sparingly.

[Curio]

This works if by simple moments they mean juxtaposing Rumple's 300 years of plans revolving around a Rube Goldberg level of complexity against the simple plan of Hook outrunning the curse and trading his ship for a bean to decide who wanted to get to the land without magic more.

 

Here's the thing—seeing the visual of a dove (hello, symbolism!) flying onto the Jolly Roger while the audience got to actually see Hook's reaction to reading Neal's letter would have been a brilliant "clock tick" moment. So why was that summed up in 10 seconds of dialogue, writers? (Sorry, but I'm never letting that one go.)

 

I thought the section from Damon Lindelof talking about Lost was interesting, considering both Adam & Eddy's history on that show:

Carlton (my co-writer) and I had just finally won the battle to have ABC announce an end date to the show (albeit three years out), which finally allowed us to break from the monotony of character flashbacks (we had one that explained where Sayid had his hair styled all lined up) and launch into flash-FORWARDS.

 

Even by Season 3, the head guys on Lost realized how monotonous the flashbacks were getting and decided to switch it up. So why didn't Adam & Eddy learn from their experience on that show and apply it to Once? It's Season 5 now and the flashbacks are still (for the most part, there are some exceptions) rather monotonous. Yes, it's sometimes okay to show an occasional Enchanted Forest flashback if the plot calls for it, but we've gotten to the point where it's ridiculously repetitive and they only focus on the same people over and over or dig too deep into a villain's backstory who disappears by the end of the season anyways. Lindelof might have been joking about creating a storyline explaining Sayid's hair style, but the sad thing is we've basically hit that equivalent on this show with Regina in several of her flashbacks. We had the one unnecessary flashback this season explaining her jealousy over some horse riding ribbons, and then another episode that showed her father brushing her hair—a literal moment explaining the Evil Queen's hair style. Are Adam & Eddy too blinded by their own creation to not notice these obvious things, or what?

Edited June 9, 2015 by Curio

[Camera One]

LOL, why did A&E answer the question together.  They were in the only ones in the entire article.  Hey, at least they didn't say their favorite moment was when everyone rejected Regina's lasagna.  

[KingOfHearts]

LOL, why did A&E answer the question together. They were in the only ones in the entire article. Hey, at least they didn't say their favorite moment was when everyone rejected Regina's lasagna.

Obviously that was a close second. ;)

[Serena]

LOL, why did A&E answer the question together.  They were in the only ones in the entire article.  Hey, at least they didn't say their favorite moment was when everyone rejected Regina's lasagna.  

I think because they're basically a writing team? I don't think they've ever written a script NOT together.

[Rumsy4]

I think because they're basically a writing team? I don't think they've ever written a script NOT together.

Yup. Even in LOST, they were always credited together.

[Serena]

I randomly fell into a vortex of reading old articles about Smash and I found a quote about the writer's attitude towards one of the characters that is, IMO, basically what the problem is with Regina:

 

 

 

Rebeck based the character on herself, and yet wouldn’t allow Julia to have a good arc that would satisfy or endear her to the audience.
If the writers wanted to give Julia something to do that was hard and that she would eventually get through, “Theresa would say, ‘It’s not a struggle! She doesn’t have a problem! She’s the hero! She saves everything!’” said someone who witnessed this oft-repeated discussion.
Another source added: “The writer had such a strong identification with that character that she couldn’t actually write well for her, or allow interesting stories to develop. The writers were trying to push into more interesting territory for that character, and Theresa blocked that creatively.

From here.

 

Basically, the fact that they love her too much is stopping them from giving him actual interesting storylines and character development.

[sharky]

So happy Brigitte Hales is on Twitter. Instead of tweets about girls making out, she tweets stuff like "Episode one is looking good. You're going to feel all the feels." I don't care if that doesn't even end up being true. I'm just happy we get tweets like this from her.

[YaddaYadda]

I suppose episode one should pack some emotional punch since they've either been looking for Emma and haven't found her if there's a time jump or it if it picks up right after the dagger falls to the ground which would probably mean I'll need cake around the house.

[KingOfHearts]

I really am hoping there's a time jump. That would have more emotional impact than going right back to the dagger scene and immediately starting Operation Emma. I want to see the mains miss her and realize how empty their lives are without her. If it were several months or even a year, I'd be happy.

Edited June 10, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[daxx]

I really am hoping there's a time jump. That would have more emotional impact than going right back to the dagger scene and immediately starting Operation Emma. I want to see the mains miss her and realize how empty their lives are without her. If it were several months or even a year, I'd be happy.

Can you imagine how wrecked Killian would be after a year with Emma missing, again?

[sharky]

From Jane's Twitter.

Edited June 11, 2015 by sharky

[Souris]

Katmtan got sassed hard by Adam for saying she heard Once wasn't going to be at Comic Con.