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S02.E03: Valerie Is Brought To Her Knees

Tara Ariano

By Tara Ariano
in The Comeback [V]

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Mumbles

Mumbles

Kudrow's face while the crew was prepping for the scene was something else. Not saying anything, but her eyes and her facial movement said it all. She's great.

 

Between a horrible hacky sitcom and a "prestige" show that confuses anger/hate with sex and treats female characters like objects, it's safe to say I wouldn't watch any of Paulie G's shows in the Val alt-universe.

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mattie0808

mattie0808

Lord, I'm going to wind up LOVING Seth Rogen because of his fictional portrayal of himself on this show, aren't I? Hell, I already do, essentially. He had me at trying to play off the "first-time director" thing when he saw how Paulie G was reacting to Val (for what was actually not a bad/problematic gift, I thought, certainly better than the flowers/ham!), by the time he saved Val from having to do that scene, well... "I got your back, ginger snaps." It's so amazing what happens when you have someone willing to treat Valerie like an actual human being, even with Paulie G around. Good grief.

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Muffyn

Muffyn

Lisa Kudrow was absolutely brilliant this episode.  Her facial expressions and body posture were so great during such uncomfortable scenes.  I am joining you all in your love for fictionalized Seth Rogen.  

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DrivingSideways

DrivingSideways

Can I marry fictional Seth Rogen?  I absolutely love how he has Valerie's back and I hope that doesn't change.  Painful to see Paulie G become an asshole again.  It is interesting to me that the Seeing Red version of Val is a lot bitchier and has more backbone than what actually went down.

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Muffyn

Muffyn

I loved the wig scene when Valerie was trying to show how different it was than her hair, especially since later you could see just how cheap and tacky the wig looked on her.  Just what she needs - a cheap, plastic looking version of her normal hair.  

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AuntiePam

AuntiePam

It would also be wonderful if Val could learn from him -- he handled Paulie G. brilliantly. 

 

Val needs to learn how to stick to her guns.  Her instincts are good, but when she stands up for herself, she cowers at the same time, like she's expecting to be shot down.  Needlessly apologetic.  The battle is already lost when you start by saying "I'm sorry but . . . "

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LiveFromKevin

LiveFromKevin

Even before he rescues Valerie in the final scene, "Rogan" showed some heroic tendencies. In the scene with the two nude extras making orgasm noises, there was a clear divide between the lecherous stares from the male crew and how obviously uncomfortable it was making Val, Jane, and the older female crewmember they kept cutting to. The actual nude models (and grossly, Paulie G) were they only ones who seemed able to take it seriously. Enter Rogan, and I wasn't really sure which side of the coin he would land on when he joined the scene. Then he says a joke that not only breaks the tension, but humanizes the extras in a way that kind of extends the protection of his star power to them. In a perfectly non-preachy way, he says, "hey guys, remember how these girls are more than just sex objects? Hilarious, but let's not forget that!" Loved the way they focused on the older lady laughing hysterically, you could just tell how much relief she felt.

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hoodooznoodooz

hoodooznoodooz

It would also be wonderful if Val could learn from him -- he handled Paulie G. brilliantly. 

 

Val needs to learn how to stick to her guns.  Her instincts are good, but when she stands up for herself, she cowers at the same time, like she's expecting to be shot down.  Needlessly apologetic.  The battle is already lost when you start by saying "I'm sorry but . . . "

I totally agree!

Well, it is encouraging that she tried to improvise, after watching Seth improvise with the eye/jizz line.  Maybe she will take cues off Seth wrt handling Paulie G also.  [ And I actually thought her improvised line -- why don't you just rape me -- was pretty funny.]

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Skeeter22

Skeeter22

I don't think there's anything Val could do to get respect from Paulie G. The fact that Seth Rogan is a man and a movie star will always give him the upper hand with someone like Paulie G.

I thought that Val' s rape line, while a terrible improv, was a completely honest and accurate reading of the situation between her and Paulie G. He wanted to sexually humiliate her for what? She's annoying and questioned one or two of his shitty jokes?

I thought it was interesting the way Jane interjected in this episode. It'll be interesting to see if she's willing to be confrontational this time around. She probably has nothing to lose.

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Kris117

Kris117

I thought that Val' s rape line, while a terrible improv, was a completely honest and accurate reading of the situation between her and Paulie G. He wanted to sexually humiliate her for what? She's annoying and questioned one or two of his shitty jokes?

 

I thought the line was funny mostly because it also painfully true. While Paulie G has learned to be more cordial and considerate on the surface, this episode made it evident that he is still holding on to a massive amount of hostility towards Valerie, and sees this show as his vehicle to express it while hiding behind the passive-agressive protest that "It's just a show." And, as you say, what did she ever do to him that called for such a response? Her biggest crime in his eyes, though, is being a woman of a certain age rather than a nubile ingenue. 

 

After the nastiness that is Paulie G and the way he treats Valerie, it took me a while to believe that Seth Rogan was being genuinely nice to her. I have to rewatch this episode just to catch all the subtleties of how Rogan picks up on the tension between Paulie and Val, decides whose side he's on, and figures out a way to stick up for Val without making things worse for her in Paulie's eyes. I've enjoyed this season, but this was one of the best episodes in the entire series. 

 

 

Kudrow's face while the crew was prepping for the scene was something else. Not saying anything, but her eyes and her facial movement said it all. She's great.

 

 

God, yes. My heart just bled for her, because the more she learned about the scene, the less she wanted to do it, but the more she felt she had to. She was so brave and fragile, my heart went out to her. And as LiveFromKevin said above, watching all of the reactions to the nude women, especially those of the other women in the room, was memorable. 

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iMonrey

iMonrey

I thought it was hilarious that Valerie went out and bought a $7000 wig that looks exactly like her own hair. I honestly could not see the difference. And then it made me wonder if Lisa Kudrow is actually wearing a wig, because up until now I assumed that was her own hair, tinted strawberry blonde. 

 

What's really funny is that when I saw Seth Rogan, my first thought was that I was having trouble buying the idea that a movie star that big would commit to an HBO television show. It took me awhile to realize the irony because, duh, Seth Rogan is doing an HBO show!

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stanleyk

stanleyk

What's really funny is that when I saw Seth Rogan, my first thought was that I was having trouble buying the idea that a movie star that big would commit to an HBO television show. It took me awhile to realize the irony because, duh, Seth Rogan is doing an HBO show!

 

Ha! I had the EXACT same thought - I was actually distracted thinking "I'm not sure Seth Rogen would do an HBO show..." without realizing what a moron I was being since I was, at that moment, watching Seth Rogen do an HBO show.

 

That episode was so excruciating, and thus perfect. I had to pause it and take a few minutes a couple times since my sympathy embarassment was causing me too much stress.

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txhorns79

txhorns79

I thought it was hilarious that Valerie went out and bought a $7000 wig that looks exactly like her own hair. I honestly could not see the difference. And then it made me wonder if Lisa Kudrow is actually wearing a wig, because up until now I assumed that was her own hair, tinted strawberry blonde.

 

I thought she wore a wig for Valerie.  Just seems like it would be easier than having to restyle her hair everyday to get to Valerie's particular hairstyle.  I did like where you saw her saying she would pay Mickey's salary herself than fire either hair person.     

 

 

I thought it was interesting the way Jane interjected in this episode. It'll be interesting to see if she's willing to be confrontational this time around. She probably has nothing to lose.

 

I agree.  It was weird seeing her insert herself into the scene to offer Valerie advice on how to handle a situation.  First season Jane would never have done that.  Maybe she works directly for HBO, so she doesn't care what Paulie G has to say.  

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CofCinci

CofCinci

Maybe she works directly for HBO, so she doesn't care what Paulie G has to say.

Jane is now an Academy Award winning documentarian.  She ain't got time for that.

 

[ And I actually thought her improvised line -- why don't you just rape me -- was pretty funny.]

Her line was hysterical!

 

What did you all think of the face Valerie while the episode ended as she ducked down between Seth's legs?  I wasn't quite sure how what she was trying to convey to the camera.  A sense of fear?  A "what did I get myself into"?  I'm curious about what others thought.

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annlaw78

annlaw78

(edited)

I did like where you saw her saying she would pay Mickey's salary herself than fire either hair person.

I loved that there exists in Hollywood someone whose entire day's work is placing one wig on one head, which we saw took all of 20 seconds. And then Mickey follows Val around all say incessantly picking it out.

I appreciated how "Seth" sized up the situation and wielded his power -- huge popularity, massive success, maleness (ugh, Paulie G) -- for good. Beyond refusing to pile on/bully Val, the character also just had good instincts (better than newly minted director Paulie) about the show, the scene, and the relationship b/w Mitch and Mallory. He and Mallory's earnest professionalism may make this show a success.

What did you all think of the face Valerie while the episode ended as she ducked down between Seth's legs? I wasn't quite sure how what she was trying to convey to the camera. A sense of fear? A "what did I get myself into"? I'm curious about what others thought.

I thought it was just awkwardness. Her face is jammed in his crotch while he's making sex noises. Edited by annlaw78
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SFoster21

SFoster21

Jane is now an Academy Award winning documentarian. She ain't got time for that.

Her line was hysterical!

What did you all think of the face Valerie while the episode ended as she ducked down between Seth's legs? I wasn't quite sure how what she was trying to convey to the camera. A sense of fear? A "what did I get myself into"? I'm curious about what others thought.

You ask me, Valerie has unguarded moments when the facade falls and there's clarity. Agreeing to do this show was a move only someone with her insatiable need for a show biz career would make.

If you recall, she stormed HBO to announce her intention to sue, then was flattered into reading and, once "awarded" the role, took it as a victory. She has to know that the show trades in an extremely unflattering representation of her because she objected to it in the first instance.

She has been "brought to her knees" in every way possible and there are times when even she can't spin it otherwise.

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Milburn Stone

Milburn Stone

(edited)

Back in 2005 I thought Lance Barber killed it as Paulie G. Then I kept looking for him to show up in something else, because he's so good, and he never did. So I'm glad to see him working again! I hope whenever this round of The Comeback is done (and I hope it gets more than a season) his career will have legs.

 

Paulie G is such a disagreeable character that it's easy to feel about Lance Barber, "I don't want to see that!" But we shouldn't forget that the reason we loathe Paulie G as much as we do is that Lance Barber is giving a great performance.

Edited by Milburn Stone
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pasdetrois

pasdetrois

I was prepared to be slightly uncomfortable with this episode, but I was quite sad instead. I had a lump in my throat as I watched Valerie struggle to control her humiliation as they prepared for the scene. Kudrow was brilliant.

 

Agree that Lance Barber is killin' it as Paulie G. The portrayal is dead-on - the colleague whom you know loathes you, you're not really sure why, and there's nothing you can do about it. It's such misery.

 

Seth Rogan has the best voice in the business.

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hoodooznoodooz

hoodooznoodooz

(edited)

Oh, good. I am relieved to learn that I am not the only one who thought Valerie's rape line was funny. I guess I was surprised by this website's recap: "This riff...does not work"

I may have imagined it, but I also thought that Valerie exhibited a little bit of child-like joy, realizing that Seth Rogen was looking out for her, suggesting that they frame the shot in a way that was less humiliating for her.

I am curious to know how that Mitch dream/fantasy sequence would ultimately look when broadcast.

I love Seth Rogen's voice! Also, his laugh.

Edited by hoodooznoodooz
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Saph

Saph

First off, I just want to say: I love this show--both old & new incarnations.

 

Upon viewing the final scene, & how Seth so graciously engineered to have Valerie appear off-camera during the fantasy "blow job":  I almost thought that Valerie was torn after Seth's suggestion.  On one hand, she saved herself from further degradation & humiliation from Pauly G's machinations.  But on the other hand, she gave up an additional chance to be on-camera during that "lap" scene, which then took the focus off of her & her narcissistic "comeback" role.  Did anyone else feel that way--that she was maybe having mixed-feelings as she knelt in Seth's lap & then the production crew told her to get her head out of camera frame? That she somehow maybe just slightly regretted the scripting change? Or am I just reading way too much into it?

 

Either way, it was an awesome, brilliantly crafted episode.  I repeat:  I love this show. 

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AuntiePam

AuntiePam

Valerie was visibly uncomfortable when she was simply standing between two naked women, so I don't think she regretted being out of the blow-job scene.  She wants screen time, but she has limits. 

 

In S1, she hated the track suit -- it made her look ridiculous.  She'd look even more ridiculous with her head bobbing up and down in Rogen's lap.

 

 

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SFoster21

SFoster21

First off, I just want to say: I love this show--both old & new incarnations.

Upon viewing the final scene, & how Seth so graciously engineered to have Valerie appear off-camera during the fantasy "blow job": I almost thought that Valerie was torn after Seth's suggestion. On one hand, she saved herself from further degradation & humiliation from Pauly G's machinations. But on the other hand, she gave up an additional chance to be on-camera during that "lap" scene, which then took the focus off of her & her narcissistic "comeback" role. Did anyone else feel that way--that she was maybe having mixed-feelings as she knelt in Seth's lap & then the production crew told her to get her head out of camera frame? That she somehow maybe just slightly regretted the scripting change? Or am I just reading way too much into it?

Either way, it was an awesome, brilliantly crafted episode. I repeat: I love this show.

ITA. The brilliance of the show is in the layers, and I totally believe she regrets the loss of any camera time. "Jane, are you getting this?"

Be careful what you wish for.

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iMonrey

iMonrey

You're not aware that Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey did HBO?

 

The show they did was a one-hour drama with a limited run. (I know it's coming back and they're still producers but they won't appear in the second season.) They didn't commit to something that could potentially turn into a long-running comedy show, which is what "Seeing Red" is supposed to be (and I'm not sure if it's supposed to be an hour show or a half hour show). That's why I thought, well, someone like Seth Rogan who has such a prolific movie career probably wouldn't commit to a TV series. 

 

Which makes me wonder where they're going with "Seeing Red." So far, it doesn't look like it would be a very good show. If it turns into a big hit, how long can they stretch it out? It's based on a situation that took place over the course of a freshman sitcom that got cancelled after one season.

 

I think the most likely scenario is that the show won't do well which will set Valerie and Paulie G up to blame each other for its failure.

 

What did you all think of the face Valerie while the episode ended as she ducked down between Seth's legs?  I wasn't quite sure how what she was trying to convey to the camera.

 

Hard to read. Most likely some relief that Seth had sort of stood up for her and shielded her from greater humiliation, but still an awkward and somewhat uncomfortable position to be in.

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Muffyn

Muffyn

I don't think it;s a huge stretch for a movie star to appear on a cable channel sitcom or other type of show - Don Cheadle on House of Lies and William H. Macy on Shameless come to mind.   Obviously Seth Rogen on this very show.  It's usually a much a shorter commitment per season than a network show, keeps them in the public eye, allows them to build a character in a different way than in a film  Even if it was totally unheard of, I'm too happy with Seth Rogen this episode to care.  Although I do doubt the quality of Seeing Red and how that would be a draw for an actor.  I guess the chance to play a junkie - that's Emmy bait. 

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Kris117

Kris117

I thought it was just awkwardness. Her face is jammed in his crotch while he's making sex noises.

 

I thought so too. She's got her head jammed in Seth's lap, but when she tries to put a little bit distance between her head and his crotch, she is in the shot, so she has to set her head down again. She also looked as if she was trying very, very, hard not to move at all or even breathe. 

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Cramps

Cramps

I didn't catch the credits, but I'm pretty sure the older woman in the crew whom they showed laughing, is the brilliant Winnie Holzman, who created My So Called Life and wrote the play for Wicked.

And considering that Seth did two TV shows before he became a movie star, a few appearances on this aren't such a strange thing.

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millamant

millamant

(edited)

 

I didn't catch the credits, but I'm pretty sure the older woman in the crew whom they showed laughing, is the brilliant Winnie Holzman, who created My So Called Life and wrote the play for Wicked.

 

Yup, that was the lovely and talented Winnie Holzman (aka Mrs. Paul Dooley).

Edited by millamant
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Pluto

Pluto

I don't think it;s a huge stretch for a movie star to appear on a cable channel sitcom or other type of show - Don Cheadle on House of Lies and William H. Macy on Shameless come to mind.   Obviously Seth Rogen on this very show.

Don't forget Glenn Close, she did one season of The Shield and then starred on Damages for five years.

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missy jo

missy jo

What did you all think of the face Valerie while the episode ended as she ducked down between Seth's legs?  I wasn't quite sure how what she was trying to convey to the camera.  A sense of fear?  A "what did I get myself into"?  I'm curious about what others thought.

 

I thought that her expression showed that the situation was still awkward, even though Seth thankfully toned it down from what it was originally supposed to be.

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Muffyn

Muffyn

A better director and one who cared about her would have cut the scene when her head went below the site line and let her leave.  Seth could act out receiving a blow job without having her head on his lap.  So there was still plenty of humiliation even though Seth lessened it, especially in terms of how it will appear on film.

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