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Forum Reorganization

Small Talk: The Bus

Lisin

By Lisin
in Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D.

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Sarahastro

Sarahastro

Hi! I'm Sarahastro. I just joined today after the announcement that TWOP is closing its doors. I've been chatting about AoS over there under the name Sarahjane10784. I'm a fan of AoS, but other than that I'm not that into the MCU or comic books in general, although I have seen some of the Marvel movies after getting into AoS. Other than that, right now I'm watching Brooklyn Nine-Nine, Community, Parks and Rec, and rewatching Star Trek.

Cranberry

Cranberry

Hi guys, and welcome to the forum! Feel free to start threads in here -- we've already got threads for all of the main characters (some are currently on the second page) and for spoilers, but if you want a quotes thread, a ratings thread, a media thread, whatever, go to town!

Once Captain America: The Winter Soldier is released, I'll do a thread for discussion of how that affects/ties into AoS so that we can avoid spoiling the movie in show threads and vice versa.

  • Love 1
Lisin

Lisin

  • Author

The Small Talk topic is for:

  • Introductions
  • Off-topic chatter
  • Having virtual tea with forum buddies

This is NOT a topic for actual show discussion. When you want to talk about the show:
  1. Figure out the nature of the topic you want to talk about
  2. Look for an existing topic that matches or fits
  3. If there is NOT an existing topic that fits, CREATE ONE!


Examples of topics that populate show forums include (but by no means are limited to):

  • Character topics
  • Episode topics
  • Season topics
  • Spoiler topics
  • Speculation topics
  • In the Media topics
  • Favourite X topics
  • ...you get the idea


Happy trails beyond Small Talk!

Grammaeryn

Grammaeryn

Hi, I'm a Marvel universe newbie (no comics, just the movies/TV). I really love getting up to speed and researching things like Kree or Captain Marvel. If you're in the same boat. I stumbled upon a cartoon on Netflix called The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. I know it's a kids cartoon but the writing is pretty good and it's a great way to see the big Marvel universe. They have a prison called The Vault that basically is the exact design for The Fridge. I'm really psyched for the Ant Man and Black Panther movies thanks to this cartoon! Also, the theory 

blue tube alien is the original Captain Marvel makes more sense.

 

  • Love 2
KirkB

KirkB

Oh, Mightiest Heroes was so much better than Assemble it's not even funny. Assemble is a toned down for kids show (not as much as Hulk: Agents of SMASH but still) while MH was almost a love letter to comic book fans. The characters were better, their interaction was much more fun to watch, and even the weakest episodes were a treat, though the series finale was a bit rushed and a waste of Galactus.

  • Love 2
jhlipton

jhlipton

re Heroes and letting Skyler be the main character for more than one season:
 

That goes even more so for Peter Petrelli. He was super overpowered which is why it was originally planned that he would die together with Skylar in the finale. But nooooo they couldn't even let the most annoying character of the whole cast die. With Skylar I can at least understand how it's hard to let him go, but Peter, really?!


But the Bennecellis are the most specialist people EVAH, you h8ter! Gah. next you'll be telling me that Monica Dawson was a great character and didn't deserve to be side-lined!

Miles

Miles

(edited)

re Heroes and letting Skyler be the main character for more than one season:

 

But the Bennecellis are the most specialist people EVAH, you h8ter! Gah. next you'll be telling me that Monica Dawson was a great character and didn't deserve to be side-lined!

To be honest, I remember almost nothing about heroes past season one, despite having watched all of it. I just remember generall annoyance at the badness of it all. I guess my brain just deamed it not important enough to waste space. So I don't remember Monica Dawson at all, even after looking her up. Edited by Miles
Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

The first season of Heroes was great. "Save the Cheerleader, Save the World!" It all went downhill after that. Sylar shouldn't have been around for more than 2 seasons. But that's a problem a lot of super hero shows have. In the comics having the same villain be around for years is fine because of the medium it's in. On screen they get tedious and annoying having the villain magically survive and keep coming back and that in turn make the heroes look less heroic and stupid. They supposedly defeat the bad guy to save the city, then oops they really didn't and bad guy comes back hurting even more people. 

 

I get it, villains are fun to watch and I enjoy seeing them wreck havoc on the heroes, but I see so many times that when the villain is killed, people want them to not be dead and come back. When I want them to stay dead, so we can have a new villain that will hopefully be just as fun to watch. Seeing the same one over and over again gets boring since they either never do anything different or are magically redeemed and the heroes want to be their friend. 

Edited by Sakura12
  • Love 2
Danny Franks

Danny Franks

The problem I found with Heroes was, every time it looked like there might be some sort of development in terms of characters meeting/teaming up/forging relationships... it didn't happen.

 

I can't even remember all the examples of it now, but you had stuff like Peter and Hiro meeting, then Peter and Claire, then Nathan and Ali Larter, and none of it ever really amounted to anything at all. An episode or two later, they'd all just go off in different directions again. There was no sense of progress or growth, just plotline wrangling that made less and less sense. And that was just in the first season. I didn't even make it halfway into the second season.

  • Love 1
KirkB

KirkB

The whole "Save the cheerleader, save the world" thing never made sense to me anyway. Claire was in no way integral to stopping Sylar or Peter. If she had been able to be killed and died earlier in the story the finale would have played out exactly the same. 

 

Honestly I thought the whole Heroes premise was flawed from the start. What I thought they were going to do was a new story with new characters each season, at most with someone like Mohinder as a through character. Instead they powered down Peter, bumped Sylar up to be the star (which only worked for me because of how much fun I had watching Zachary Quinto), ran Claire in circles and tried (and failed) to find stories for Matt and Nathan. The writer's strike cutting the season in half certainly didn't do them any favors either. 

  • Love 2
Miles

Miles

The whole "Save the cheerleader, save the world" thing never made sense to me anyway. Claire was in no way integral to stopping Sylar or Peter. If she had been able to be killed and died earlier in the story the finale would have played out exactly the same.

Taking Claire's power gave Sylar super healing which made him basically unstopable. Thus saving Clair would save the world, since Sylar could be killed before he turned nuclear. Or at least that's what Hiro thought. It made sense, even though the plan might have been flawed.
Malbec

Malbec

Oh, Heroes.  So much potential.  Flaws and all, I still have a ton of affection for the first season.  The five-years-in-the-future episode was everything comic book TV should be.

 

But yeah -- the show aggravatingly NEVER developed any relationships among the characters.  Remember when Peter and Mohinder became kinda-friends?  Yeah, neither did the writers.  Also, unpopular opinion, I came to really dislike Noah Bennet.  Jack Coleman was great in the role and gave the character a lot of complexity, but I couldn't really get past the fact that he repeatedly had his wife's memories wiped without her consent or knowledge, giving her massive brain damage in the process, and the show/fandom pretty much gave him a pass for it.  I understand his motives for doing it, but the "husband knows best and is hurting wife for her own good" thing just creeped the shit out of me.

  • Love 2
Kalliste

Kalliste

Oh, that is an unpopular opinion? I never liked Noah.. He felt like he could just wipe away his mistakes and not have any consequences. I'm currently up to season 3 in my rewatch and I really cannot stand Claire. Oh man.. she is just so annoying! I felt myself wishing Sylar had killed her when he took her powers. And didn't mention she was special.. ugh. 

 

I also really enjoyed the Hiro story in season 1 but the later seasons he was so wasted (well the Kensei stuff was cool). I mean he can travel through time! Why not make him do awesome things!

Malbec

Malbec

Oh, that is an unpopular opinion? I never liked Noah.. He felt like he could just wipe away his mistakes and not have any consequences. I'm currently up to season 3 in my rewatch and I really cannot stand Claire. Oh man.. she is just so annoying! I felt myself wishing Sylar had killed her when he took her powers. And didn't mention she was special.. ugh. 

 

I also really enjoyed the Hiro story in season 1 but the later seasons he was so wasted (well the Kensei stuff was cool). I mean he can travel through time! Why not make him do awesome things!

Ha... it felt unpopular back in the day, but maybe I was just hanging out in the wrong fandom corners. Bennet definitely seemed to be St. Noah who could Do No Wrong in some quarters. 

 

I agree with you SO much about Hiro being a wasted character.  I think he was too overpowered for the writers to adequately know what to do with him.  His & Ando's friendship was one of the best relationships on the show.

 

I have to admit that I quit watching when D.L. died.  Not that I was particularly attached to the character, it was just such a stupid death that it was the straw that broke the camel's back as far as my frustration with the writing.  I did hear the show got better later on, though.

Kalliste

Kalliste

Oh man, DLs death WAS so stupid! Of all the ways to die... he could have let that bullet move through him and if they wanted to kill him off make it through his job! Something at least a bit plausible.

 

I'm not sure it does get better.. the last season is terrible! And it ends really badly because they didn't know they were getting cancelled.

KirkB

KirkB

(edited)
Taking Claire's power gave Sylar super healing which made him basically unstopable. Thus saving Clair would save the world, since Sylar could be killed before he turned nuclear. Or at least that's what Hiro thought. It made sense, even though the plan might have been flawed.

 

 

Especially since it wasn't Sylar who would have gone nuclear and destroyed the city, it was Peter. Honestly, while it wouldn't work as a tagline, they would have been better off saying save Ted Sprague save the world. HIS death gave the nuclear power to Sylar, which in turn gave it to Peter.

Edited by KirkB
Ghost of TWOP Past

Ghost of TWOP Past

Sorry if this is the wrong spot to ask, but people keep telling me this show got better. (I gave up on it mid-first-season.) Is there anyplace I can catch up on the back episodes without having to pay because 1) I am cheap and 2) I'm still not convinced I'll like it? Hulu wants me to subscribe, cable ondemand only has the current season, and ABC's own site doesn't seem to be working (I can't click on anything). 

DeLurker

DeLurker

Ghost of TWOP -This section of PTV might have some suggestions that would work for you.

 

I've got a Netflix account and my son has been able to set it up when he was away for the summer so we were using the same account in two different locations.    I've also tapped into my account to watch while I was housesitting for my brother.  Perhaps a family member would let you use their account temporarily to binge watch S1? 

ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

Calvary is the hill upon which Jesus was crucified.

Cavalry, in the modern sense, refers to soldiers in armored vehicles (originally, French soldiers on horseback), and this is May's nickname.

It's a really common mistake to mix the two up (and I understand since they're so close). David Boreanaz, who is Catholic, once said calvary instead of cavalry on Bones.
Raja

Raja

It's a really common mistake to mix the two up (and I understand since they're so close). David Boreanaz, who is Catholic, once said calvary instead of cavalry on Bones.

I think it comes with the American accent, it was only the abbreviated Air Cav which is pronounced correctly. Things would have been much easier if the US Army stuck with Dragoons for its mobile infantry. Especially since compared to European armies the US never had proper cavalry.
FurryFury

FurryFury

I hate everything connected to WW2 (I'm Russian and this topic is unbelievably played out here, even more than the rest of the world). I don't care about period fiction generally, and also about the origins of SHIELD and the history of MCU. But I loved the show. It was the best superhero-inspired TV show I've seen, actually. It's just so much more than the sum of its parts. It's a story about grief and letting go, about a woman in a men's world, about trust and danger and spies and agents and friendship. Seriously, try at least the pilot. It's awesome.

  • Love 4
BeatLA24

BeatLA24

If any of you have a PS4, I highly encourage you to play Until Dawn. It's a horror game where decisions you make in game will have an effect on the survival of the eight characters stranded on a mountain lodge with someone/something pursuing them. It is very tense and suspenseful. It's very cinematic, and the characters are look just like their voice actors. The cast includes Hayden Panettiere, Peter Stormare, Rami Malek, and AOS's own, Brett Dalton. His character, Mike, started off as the jerk; but by the end, he had become my favorite.

jhlipton

jhlipton

(edited)

I specifically wanted to look at how common death, torture, and kidnapping were in men vs women and white people vs people of color. The graph at the bottom has the rates of death by number of appearances.

Just out of curiosity, how did you decide whether a character was "of color" or white? Did you put Daisy and/or May in the "of color" category? One more subdivision that may be interesting to look at is breaking "of color" into light vs dark skin. There have been several dark men, including Tripp, a main character, but the darkest woman I can think of (at 2 AM, granted) was Raina.

Your analysis is very interesting,but unfortunately not surprising. Women of color, especially darker ones, are notorious by their absence from SF&F shows, to the point that the only black female main characters (with the loss of Minority Report, and now Sleepy Hollow) are on AMC: Michonne on TWD, or SyFy: Roberta Warren on Z Nation and Naomi Nagata on The Expanse.

Edited by jhlipton
kitlee625

kitlee625

Just out of curiosity, how did you decide whether a character was "of color" or white? Did you put Daisy and/or May in the "of color" category? One more subdivision that may be interesting to look at is breaking "of color" into light vs dark skin. There have been several dark men, including Tripp, a main character, but the darkest woman I can think of (at 2 AM, granted) was Raina.

Your analysis is very interesting,but unfortunately not surprising. Women of color, especially darker ones, are notorious by their absence from SF&F shows, to the point that the only black female main characters (with the loss of Minority Report, and now Sleepy Hollow) are on AMC: Michonne on TWD, or SyFy: Roberta Warren on Z Nation and Naomi Nagata on The Expanse.

 

In answer to your question, I went as broad as possible and defined someone based on the actor playing them unless explicitly stated otherwise. So, May and Daisy are women of color, as are Kara Palamas/Agent 33 and Robert Gonzalez. It might be interesting to further split up the categories; however, I think that might be difficult because the biggest limitation in the analysis is just how few women (overall) and men of color there are. Only one white woman made it >5 episodes in seasons 1-2 (Victoria Hand), and she died. After season 3 we can add Rosalind Price to the list (also dead). Similarly, while 25% of women of color with >5 appearances did survive, that's a single person (Anne Weaver). The other three (Kara, Jiaying, Raina) all died.

  • Love 1
jhlipton

jhlipton

(edited)

Only one white woman made it >5 episodes in seasons 1-2 (Victoria Hand), and she died. After season 3 we can add Rosalind Price to the list (also dead). Similarly, while 25% of women of color with >5 appearances did survive, that's a single person (Anne Weaver). The other three (Kara, Jiaying, Raina) all died.

That is so depressing.

 

Gathering the data might be difficult, but an analysis of all SF/F shows on the "Big 5" (ABC, CBS, CW, FOX and NBC) might be interesting.  I think you'd get similar results.

 

You should also post this in the Race and Ethnicity thread...

Edited by jhlipton

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