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Small Talk: The Quiver

Lisin

By Lisin
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tv echo

tv echo

Barbara and Montoya are just about the worst written female characters I've seen in a long time. Worse even than Laurel. Everything else is working pretty well on Gotham, though.

Barbara is the worst character on Gotham, but her character seems to have disappeared from that show for the time being.  I'm on the fence about Montoya - she's gotten minimal screentime (much less than Barbara), so we don't really know much about her.  

 

At least the Gotham EPs know to minimize their roles on that show and don't set up three-episode arcs centered on their characters.  Barbara and Montoya were both completely missing from this week's episode (which was a great episode).

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I liked Longmire in the first season but after that the manpain took over, for Longmire, for Branch and even Vic's marital problems ended up being about her husband's manpain (a minor recurring character) rather than hers.  I  like the show and I'm glad it got renewed but I think my manpain quota is about used up.

 

The show I really wish had been renewed is Perception.  Apart from being a decent mystery, there are very few shows that get the medicine/psychology right on TV and it was one of the best.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

If they'd initially introduced her [barbara] as weak and wishy-washy, I'd be fine with it. But in the first few episodes, they had her display principles strong enough to go to the press against Jim's wishes, they had her tell Jim she would stand by him no matter what, and refuse to believe he was guilty of what he'd been accused of, they had her state clearly that she would leave her entire life behind if it would keep them safe and together.

 

And then she ran off to fuck her ex. It's such a jarring volte-face that it just feels like they've given up on the character.

 

Her going against Jim's wishes didn't come off as a principled stand to me so much as her dismissing what he said and doing what she wanted. I felt like it foreshadowed the future.   The same thing happens when he tells her to leave Gotham and don't return until he says so.  She decides she has a better way and comes back to "help" but this time ruins everything.  I'm fine in principle with her not blindly following orders but she was way over her head and didn't have enough knowledge to make that kind of choice, but that is another issue.  She promised to stay away and then she changed her mind.  She believed in Gordon until she didn't.  She wanted them to be completely open with each other but she isn't with him, she doesn't want to be kept in the dark for her protection but she can't handle knowing.  She pushed Montoya away until she showed up her door and climbed into her bed.   It's all a part of the same pattern of wishy-washy to me

Yay!  Netflix saved Longmire from cancellation.  Unfortunately, I won't be able to see it.  Boo :(

 

http://www.tvguide.com/news/netflix-longmire-season-4-1089465.aspx

Yay!!   Guess I'll have to sign up for Netflix now. 

 

Why won't you be able to see it? 

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

I finally caught up on Gotham and.. I can't help but wonder if they are writing Barbara like this on purpose. she seem to be hiding something far greater than her past romance with Montoya (which i think Jim already knows of). there's something criminal in her past and i hope that when we find out it will all make sense.

but yea, she seems to be the most hated character in the fandom. personally? while she's not as likable as Iris, she is bound and leaps from Fakanary. since it's Gotham first season i am giving her a slight pass, mostly because her past intrigues me and while the actress isn't meryl streep she far better than KC so.. that's a plus in my book.

 

 

Also, speaking of Iris: how awesome was she tonight in the Flash episode? i continue to grow more and more fond of her. Also KC should learn from DP on how to play angry broken hearted individual.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

I think Danielle Panabaker does fine.

As for Longmire, I have someone who's been bugging me to get into the show, but I didn't want to if it was going to end on a cliffhanger. But now I can try it out.

Edited by Starfish35
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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

So KC should be an even worse actress? 

Personally i think KC is by far the worse actress of the two (at least in terms of their roles on Arrow/Flash). DP is at least getting better and seem to slowly getting a good feel of her character. unlike KC i actually feel and like Caitlin, did from the start and she continues to grow on me, which was my opposite reaction to Fakanary.

Edited by foreverevolving
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Tangerine

Tangerine

(edited)
Personally i think KC is by far the worse actress of the two (at least in terms of their roles on Arrow/Flash). DP is at least getting better and seem to slowly getting a good feel of her character. unlike KC i actually feel and like Caitlin, did from the start and she continues to grow on me, which was my opposite reaction to Fakanary.

 

So KC should be an even worse actress? 

 

Responding in Mind Your Surroundings thread.

Edited by Tangerine
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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

Yay!!   Guess I'll have to sign up for Netflix now. 

 

Why won't you be able to see it? 

 

Well, I live in a fairly rural area where affordable internet options are limited.  My internet service provider only allows me to download 250 MB of data in 24 hours.  Pretty sure I couldn't even watch one 42 minute-long episode without going over that limit.  I tried to watch an episode of The Good Wife once...took me three days to see the thing without using up my data allowance.  So, sadly Netflix is not an option.  It's a bummer too, because I want to see the last season of The Killing, season 4 of Longmire, and seasons 2-3 of Orange is the New Black.  Oh well :(

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Well, I live in a fairly rural area where affordable internet options are limited.  My internet service provider only allows me to download 250 MB of data in 24 hours.  Pretty sure I couldn't even watch one 42 minute-long episode without going over that limit.  I tried to watch an episode of The Good Wife once...took me three days to see the thing without using up my data allowance.  So, sadly Netflix is not an option.  It's a bummer too, because I want to see the last season of The Killing, season 4 of Longmire, and seasons 2-3 of Orange is the New Black.  Oh well :(

I feel your pain.  I'm semi-rural (my backyard backs into a cow pasture).  Pre digital Tv I had like 3 separate antennas set up just to get the regular broadcast channels (one on the roof, one a UHF, and one that plugged into the wall and used the whole house as an antenna - each time I changed the channel I had to swap out cables)  I'm now beholden to Dish for any channels.   As for internet, I don't have it as bad as you but the only time I'll be able to watch anything on the internet without it pausing to buffer ever three minutes is if I stay up in the wee hours of the morning when the rest of the users in my area are asleep. 

 

I guess worst case scenario is to wait until it hits DVD.  I still do that for Dr. Who. 

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

I finally got up to date with Gotham. Normally I hate children on shows but I'm really digging the interaction between babyBat and babyCat with the added bonus of their interaction with Crazy babyIvy. 

 

Barbara's the Laurel of the show, but as long as she stays away most episodes she's still more tolerable than Laurel. 

Edited by Sakura12
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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

I finally got up to date with Gotham. Normally I hate children on shows but I'm really digging the interaction between babyBat and babyCat with the added bonus of their interaction with Crazy babyIvy. 

 

Barbara's the Laurel of the show, but as long as she stays away most episodes she's still more tolerable than Laurel. 

 

Honestly, why do so many shows have a Laurel, these days? These ruinous characters that just make me want to stop watching. Barbara on Gotham, Katrina (and Hawley, but he's more pointless than actively annoying) on Sleepy Hollow, Coulson on Agents of SHIELD, Gina on Brooklyn Nine Nine (though that show's so good that not even she will stop me from watching it). Why is it impossible to make everyone appealing, or if not appealing, at least inoffensive?

 

I have no interest in Kid Bruce Wayne on Gotham, but I really like Kid Selina. The actress is great, and Selina Kyle has always been one of my favourite Bat-characters.

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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

(edited)

I've been enjoying Gotham for the most part (I do think it gets more hate then deserved in some circles), but I do think that Barbara is the worst.  It's like they're not even trying to make her a good character.  I suspect it will even be worse in the second half, where Morena Baccarin is going to show up as a potential love interest for Gordon, and if they even attempt to make it a love triangle, I'm just going to be like "Come on, Jim.  This is the easiest choice ever."

 

Anyways, in my Netflix news: I've just started watching Nikita for the first time ever, and while I'm only ten episodes into the first season, it is completely owning me.  The fight scenes are badass (like Arrow, those stunts deserve Emmys), love the locations, enjoy all the twist and turns, and, of course, the women are so awesome.  I already love both Nikita and Alex both together and apart, and Amanda is always a treat whenever she shows up (credit to the costume department for the awesome dresses they find to put on Melinda Clarke.)  Not that the male characters are a bust or anything; Percy is a good antagonist, Michael's got the whole deep, raspy-voiced agent thing going for him, and I'm intrigued over the new sinister character played by Peter Outerbridge that was introduced in the 8th episode; but, the women pretty much run and own the show.  Only real negative I have a the moment is that I feel like the Jayden character is just there to be obnoxious and a thorn in Alex's side, but since it's early, I'm hoping it improves. Looking forward to seeing where this goes next!

Edited by thuganomics85
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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

The stunts were great on Nikita because Maggie Q did her own stunts too (she was Jackie Chan's protégé after all). I also think I read an article where she brought in her own stunt coordinator to make the stunts slightly more realistic.

Her and Caity Lotz need to a show together where they just play two badass women that kick ass and take names.

Edited by Sakura12
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manbearpig

manbearpig

I never understood the love for Alex on Nikita. For me Alex was not remotely believable as a spy and the actress is, in my opinion, not very good. I liked that the show was built around two women, but I was never a fan of Alex. I didn't care for much of the supporting cast, though. Honestly outside of certain episodes (All the Way, Power), it just made me want to rewatch Alias.

 

However, I could have watched Nikita and Amanda do literally anything though. They were great together. Melinda Clarke is always amazing though and I'll definitely be looking out for Maggie Q's movies as I don't think I'll be watching Stalker. I did stop watching during season three though because the show as a whole got really tedious and I was never that invested outside of the Nikita/Amanda relationship. I still have the DVD so I could always try again because I only got four episodes into season three.

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Tangerine

Tangerine

(edited)

The stunts were great on Nikita because Maggie Q did her own stunts too (she was Jackie Chan's protégé after all). I also think I read an article where she brought in her own stunt coordinator to make the stunts slightly more realistic.

Her and Caity Lotz need to a show together where they just play two badass women that kick ass and take names.

 

In my mind, Maggie Q was always how I pictured a real-life Cheshire. I would have loved her on Arrow. Or maybe even as Lady Shiva fighting against/alongside Lotz's Canary. Oh, what could have been.

 

Ok, with that cross handed lightsaber I take back EVERYTHING I have said about impractical weapons on Arrow.

 

It's SO impractical. But it's such a cool visual and I loved it. I guess I'm easy.

Edited by Tangerine
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

Seeing the Millennium Falcon again made me so happy.

I know the new movies won't follow the Extended Universe which kind of stinks because I love the Timothy Zhan Trilogy. At the same time, subsequent writers turned Mara Jade into a Mary Sueish character so I'm rather happy I won't have to deal with her.

That being said, I wonder if Force Awakens might "borrow" from the extended Universe? In the EU Han/Leia had a set of twins and then a younger son (Anakin), I stopped reading before it happened but I believe one of the boys goes darkside (I want to say Anakin since in the books he was the most powerful). Long story short, what if the Dark/Light mentioned in the trailer are Han/Leia's twins, the girl is the light side, while the boy has fallen to the darkside? The darkside awakens?

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

I think Daisy Ridley's character is supposed to be Han and Leia's daughter, and that teaser suggests she's not exactly living it up in palatial style, so I do wonder how the original trilogy's heroes lives have progressed since ROTJ. But I'm one who hopes they discard all the extended universe stuff, and write a completely new chapter in Star Wars lore.

 

The prequels suffered hugely because they relied too much on what was destined to happen in the original trilogy, and I think the same could easily happen if there was too much baggage carried over into these new movies. I even hope that Ford, Hamill and Fisher are only making extended cameo appearances.

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WaitandHope

WaitandHope

As much as Arrow has been trying my patience lately and The Flash hasn't quite caught my heart yet, I'm hoping these guys get big ratings on their Crossovers. The promotion has been tremendous and it seems like it couldn't happen for two nicer hard-working guys than SA and GG. Seriously, I hope it's the best ratings in CW history and beat some network shows for the night. I love TV in all it's forms, but there's something to be said for the pure pop fun that CW puts out with shows like this. It never has made much sense to me that people simply can't find these shows on the netlets or somehow denigrate them for their network - yet they go the theater to watch whatever superhero production is playing that weekend. So even though I'm down on the spoilers and frustrated by the direction rumored at the first of the year, I'm hopeful they turn it around in quality ... And for their sakes and those of us who actually like to simply be entertained, here's hoping the ratings blow the roof off!

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Did anyone watch Sleepy Hollow tonight?  I've just been reading the episode thread, and there is a lot of hate for Katrina stealing the show from better liked characters, attributing it to the producers love for the character.  (And I agree, a character I don't like and who gets way too much screentime.)   Felt a lot like reading about Laurel.

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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

I actually wasn't aware of some of the behind the scenes drama, but after reading about it, it almost scarily similar to how I feel about Arrow as well.  It sounds like on Sleepy Hollow, the original creators (Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman) aren't participating much this season due to other projects (I think Scorpion), and this Mark Goffman dude who is now running the show, and seems to be the guy behind the Katrina push.  It just reminds me of Arrow, and how I feel the quality dropped once Greg Berlanti focused more on The Flash, leaving Marc Guggenheim as the man in charge more or less.  Now, I'm not saying Orci/Kurtzman and Berlanti are perfect or anything, but I do wondering if their absences are playing a part in why I feel both shows have lost some of their luster.

 

Now that I really think about it, Mark Goffman?  Marc Guggenheim?!  OK, I think I'm going to start side-eyeing projects from guys with the initials M.G....

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SleepDeprived

SleepDeprived

(edited)

Did anyone watch Sleepy Hollow tonight?  I've just been reading the episode thread, and there is a lot of hate for Katrina stealing the show from better liked characters, attributing it to the producers love for the character.  (And I agree, a character I don't like and who gets way too much screentime.)   Felt a lot like reading about Laurel.

 

I watched the SH mid-season finale. And I wouldn't say Katrina stole the show from the better liked characters, or was given an inordinate amount of screen time, in this episode, specifically. Well, maybe Katrina had more exposure than Jenny did but definitely not Irving and Abbie. Both Abbie and Irving got very significant moments of awesome while Katrina was, mainly, just there. But my recollection of which characters got shafted in favor of another, tonight, might be unreliable since I kind of spaced-out/got distracted whenever I got a whiff of the Crane family drama in scenes.

 

Now, if you mean all the S2 episodes, so far, then yes, SH has been somewhat skewed toward Katrina (and Henry and Ichabod) plots/developments. And, yep, other much-loved characters have been feeling more like afterthoughts (at times, even Abbie!) compared to how much the show has been focusing on the exasperating Crane family drama. Also, they have a new toy named Hawley so he's been getting lots of writers/producer attention, too (though not too much in the mid-season finale, thank goodness). This season, I only really liked the "Mama" episode because the Mills sisters are my main reasons of keeping this show on the DVR list. Ichabod is a distant third, tied with Irving.

Edited by SleepDeprived
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tv echo

tv echo

I watch Sleepy Hollow and my fave characters are Ichabod and Abbie - the show needs to go back to focusing on these two as a team.  I don't like Katrina and think she's the weak link on that show, but I don't hate her as much as many posters on the SH forum.  I'm actually thinking of quitting the SH forum because there's so much OTT hatred for the Cranes there.

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

(edited)

Did anyone watch Sleepy Hollow tonight?  I've just been reading the episode thread, and there is a lot of hate for Katrina stealing the show from better liked characters, attributing it to the producers love for the character.  (And I agree, a character I don't like and who gets way too much screentime.)   Felt a lot like reading about Laurel.

 

So, I was just coming here to talk about this!  Absolutely, the hatred for Laurel in this thread isn't a unique thing.  Go to the OUaT forum and you'll see plenty of hate for Regina, or go to the Sleepy Hollow forum and you'll see the same for Katrina.  I know that it probably sucks for people who like these characters, but I don't get why I'm supposed to feel bad about despising a fictional person.  If I don't like something, I'll snark and bitch about it.  I mean, of course I praise the things I love about the show, but I'm not here to just stroke the EPs egos.  If I don't like something, I'll continue to talk about it in hopes that maybe the people in charge will finally get the fucking message. 

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
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catrox14

catrox14

So I'm kind of annoyed that neither Arrow or my boys on SPN were nominated for a Satellite genre award but Grimm was. I mean I love Grimm but last season was pretty meh.  And I thought both Arrow and SPN did some really great things.  Sigh.  Why do all the shows I love get overlookde at awards time.  BSG, SPN, Arrow, Angel.  

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

So, I was just coming here to talk about this!  Absolutely, the hatred for Laurel in this thread isn't a unique thing.  Go to the OUaT forum and you'll see plenty of hate for Regina, or go to the Sleepy Hollow forum and you'll see the same for Katrina.  I know that it probably sucks for people who like these characters, but I don't get why I'm supposed to feel bad about despising a fictional person.  If I don't like something, I'll snark and bitch about it.  I mean, of course I praise the things I love about the show, but I'm not here to just stroke the EPs egos.  If I don't like something, I'll continue to talk about it in hopes that maybe the people in charge will finally get the fucking message. 

 

It's becoming more and more apparent that it's 'wrong' to dislike/hate/not care for Laurel. At least, that's what I've been getting seeing comments like "she doesn't deserve all this hate" or just the over all condescending attitude towards the people who don't like her deeming them to be 'shippers' therefore their opinions don't matter. It's not like people don't like Laurel for a no reason and I find it quite grating when opinions get brushed aside because of this whole idea that it's not right to criticize a character. It's just ridiculous.  As long as comments are respectful I see nothing wrong with it. 

Edited by wonderwall
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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

I think most show runners seem to think that if they keep shoving their favorite character at the audience we'll eventually love them as much as they do. When it usually results in the opposite. 

 

Regina has become a joke of her former self. Her poor I'm the victim thing just makes everyone look stupid. It's ruining the other characters. 

 

Katrina like Laurel is just useless and unnecessary for the story being told, yet keeps being shoved into the storylines and taking screen time away from more useful characters. Hawley is doing the same thing. He serves the same purpose as Jenny but she's getting pushed into the background for him. Why'd they bother making her a regular if she wasn't going to be written into the episodes? 

Edited by Sakura12
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Starfish35

Starfish35

I remember how much hate there was for Jennifer Keller on SGA, and I think one of the writers/EPs even said something like - the more people complain about her the more they pushed her. Kind of a "you're not going to tell me what to do" attitude I guess.

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quarks

quarks

Slayer2, muscavado sugar is just slightly stronger flavoured brown sugar. At least here they stock it in the baking section.

 

Advocaat is a bit harder to track down in U.S. liquor stores.  I found a recipe on Google, but TEN EGG YOLKS?  My arteries are all for Xmas indulgence, but...

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

Yay!! Thank you! One question, what's muscavado sugar and can I substitute it with brown sugar or no?

 

quark answered the brown sugar thing. I just used dark brown sugar. you can get muscavado in the US, but it's not as common as in europe. i think Amazon carries it, but it can get a bit expensive.

 

you don't really need the Advocaat, it's just for the cream on top or something (i think it's a recent edition cause the original recipe i have on my computer doesn't ask for it), also the cake is soo delicious on its own!

 

This is the video from the show.

http://www.cookingchanneltv.com/videos/holiday-hot-cake.html

Edited by foreverevolving
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Starfish35

Starfish35

From spoiler thread:

Than I've met a couple of texans, pointed this out to them, they were nice enough not to bite my head off and just explained that there's a reason Texas is called the "lone star state" and that no self respecting Texan would ever see himself as only 100% american. I think it has something to do with the war and the south vs. north of something related. I'm not even an American so I think it's odd, but also adorable in a weird way. to each their own i guess- i guess as long as they are not rebelling and live by US laws and constitution so what.

I think it's more to do with Texas winning its own independence from Mexico and being its own Republic for a few years before being annexed by the U.S. I don't know. It's a thing. :).

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Sakura12

Sakura12

I know some of you don't like Agents of Shield, but most shows have been disappointing me this season and that show is not. It's pretty much the only show I actually look forward to watching live. It's improved greatly since last season. I think I like it because the Team acts like a team. They joke around, help and actually talk to each other like teammates would. 

 

Coulson has also been pushed in the background a bit more and I'm more interested in Skye's storyline than anyone else. Which are big changes from last season. And I can get to see a baton twirling badass again that has the right name so I don't have to worry about her being replaced by the 2.0 version.  

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Starfish35

Starfish35

Oh oh. Let me ask you....how was "The Things We Bury?" I've been stalling on watching it, because it seemed like it was going to be a Ward episode, and I just don't really like Ward. I don't need detailed spoilers....just, what did you think about it?

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