Mr. Selfridge - General Discussion

[jordanpond]

I don't have a problem with the choice Mr. Grove made. What I had a problem with was how, once again, he made the totally selfish decision,and considered only what was best for him. . He showed no interest in what was best for Billy, or his other kids, or Ernest. He sent that baby out of his house not even knowing if he had a safe crib to sleep in for the night.That's the thing I have always disliked about him and continued to dislike about him after this episode. Everything is about what is best for HIM. He is a completely, utterly, selfish man.

And where does he think he has the right to order Miss Mardle around? She should have walked right out the door. So if he couldn't stand the sight of the child, let him take care of the situation himself.

Edited May 5, 2015 by jordanpond

[Brattinella]

I don't have a problem with the choice Mr. Grove made. What I had a problem with was how, once again, he made the totally selfish decision,and considered only what was best for him. . He showed no interest in what was best for Billy, or his other kids, or Ernest. He sent that baby out of his house not even knowing if he had a safe crib to sleep in for the night.That's the thing I have always disliked about him and continued to dislike about him after this episode. Everything is about what is best for HIM. He is a completely, utterly, selfish man.

And where does he think he has the right to order Miss Mardle around? She should have walked right out the door. So if he couldn't stand the sight of the child, let him take care of the situation himself.

 

That is exactly what I shouted at her!  "Say GOODBYE, and walk out the door!"

[Ohwell]

Miss Mardle allowed herself to be ordered around because she wants to be a doormat for Mr. Groves.  That's why I have no sympathy for her.  When she gets a backbone and some pride, then maybe... 

[AZChristian]

Miss Mardle allowed herself to be ordered around because she wants to be a doormat for Mr. Groves.  That's why I have no sympathy for her.  When she gets a backbone and some pride, then maybe... 

 

She had been demonstrating that backbone ever since Grove got engaged to Doris, but told Josie, "but nothing has to change between US" (meaning their affair could continue).  She dumped him then.  And when she was having the affair with the young musician, she basically told Grove where he could stick his opinion.

 

I think she got roped in by concern for Doris after Doris confided in her, and then the whole thing blew up.  She meant well, but - as they say - no good deed goes unpunished.

[kathe5133]

Yeah, Grove is a dick, but he has been a dick since the beginning of the series. Victor is a spineless piece of shit, and I never had any use for him. Even in the first season he made my skin crawl. I started watching because I loved the story of Agnes and the rest of the shop girls. Then I got sucked in to the rest of the stories. I guess I will keep watching, but I am not as intrigued as I was at the start.

[jordanpond]

Miss Mardle allowed herself to be ordered around because she wants to be a doormat for Mr. Groves. That's why I have no sympathy for her. When she gets a backbone and some pride, then maybe...

I'm just not seeing this at all. In addition to the examples given by AZ CHRISTIAN of how Miss Mardle has come to handle Mr. Grove with a backbone in past situations, this present situation was largely thrust on her. It started the day that Doris came to the store for Roger to treat her for her birthday, and that day Josie saw a man grab Doris' arm (and she was concerned in the wake of Kitty's assault). Later, It was Doris' guilty conscience that led her to confide in Josie about Billy.

I don't see how anything Josie did translated to her wanting to be a doormat. She was kind before the death, and generous in handling the wake (which single women often do to help out a newly widowed man's family.) But doormat? I just don't see it.

Edited May 6, 2015 by jordanpond

[Ohwell]

We'll agree to disagree then.  Next!

[vixenbynight]

I'm just not seeing this at all. In addition to the examples given by AZ CHRISTIAN of how Miss Mardle has come to handle Mr. Grove with a backbone in past situations, this present situation was largely thrust on her. It started the day that Doris came to the store for Roger to treat her for her birthday, and that day Josie saw a man grab Doris' arm (and she was concerned in the wake of Kitty's assault). Later, It was Doris' guilty conscience that led her to confide in Josie about Billy.

I don't see how anything Josie did translated to her wanting to be a doormat. She was kind before the death, and generous in handling the wake (which single women often do to help out a newly widowed man's family.) But doormat? I just don't see it.

Agreed.

Just like I'm not seeing how supposedly Josie is "scheming" to get Groves back into her bed.

She was trying to help Doris, but I guess that's just too simple. Josie just has to be seen by some as this sad creature, desperate to get a man back, who treated her horribly.

[jordanpond]

Time for me to give credit where credit is due: I really liked Violette this episode! It was great seeing her really involved in the estates project, and I liked that she showed her independence in a fun way with Victor when she insisted on taking the wheel on the drive back.

I was so glad that George did not give in. He really has quiet strength and it's making him become a more interesting character than he was before. He's still got that naive exterior, but he's very self assured. I don't know what will happen to him now, but he surely couldn't stay at the club any more.

I'm hoping for some more Gordon and Grace really soon. And Mrs. Crabb.They always pick me up.

Edited May 7, 2015 by jordanpond

[Brattinella]

It seems like everything and everyone in this show is turning to shit.  It's just depressing and sad, and it was SUCH a joyful show in the beginning!  I miss it.

[duVerre]

 

I've gotten used to Jeremy P's over the top portrayal of Selfridge, too. I think it may be due to watching that long documentary, last year, about the Roosevelts. Teddy had the same grinning, loud, over-enunciated delivery and I've come to think of that as the hearty manner of the turn of the century American man.

 

I didn't expect to like his performance but I do. Those big flat prairie vowels of his sort of "clang" amid the British ones, but that's appropriate. His teeth are too white, his smile is too broad, he walks with his chest out, and he booms when he talks. Well, I'm not sure I would use the word "talks." Maybe it's better to say that he announces and pronounces. But then, this is a man who is used to giving orders, and carries himself as though he's always campaigning.

 

 

Teddy [Roosevelt[ had the same grinning, loud, over-enunciated delivery and I've come to think of that as the hearty manner of the turn of the century American man

 

Yes, that's perfect!

 

 

Jeremy Piven is the producer of the show!

 

Was he signed on as a producer at the time he was cast, or did that come with season two or three? I ask because it's very common for the star of a show to start getting producing credit--see Sarah Jessica Parker/SATC, K. Grammar/Frasier, Jon Hamm/Mad Men, Bryan Cranston/BB, etc. The rationale is that they are so identified with the show's brand that the series would now be impossible without them, and so they deserve another title and another way to benefit financially. On the other hand, I seem to recall, very faintly, some story about Piven producing this.

[jordanpond]

So last year we decided to add a flowering crabapple tree to the middle of our garden. At that time, it was in full bloom, so this spring is the first time we're getting to enjoy the full blooming process. The tree has these beautiful, deep pink buds, and each day new pink flowers are popping out all over. So what does our crabapple tree have to do with Selfridge's?

My husband nicknamed it "Mr. Crabb Apple." I like getting to see good old Mr. Crabb Apple every day of the week.

Edited May 10, 2015 by jordanpond

[treeofdreams]

 

Considering that he risked her job during their secret affair during his first marriage, then unceremoniously dumped her for a younger model as soon as he was free to marry again, then tried to shame her out of petty jealousy when she found love again with the young hot Belgian guy,

 

Plus he wanted to continue his affair with Miss Mardle after he was married to Doris.

 

Also when they were discussing the new deputy job he basically told her she wasn't qualified for it, because he wanted the job.

 

And let's face it, he didn't love Doris, he just wanted children and thought she would be a sweet pliable wife. 

 

Just all selfishness, all around.

Edited May 10, 2015 by treeofdreams

[Brookside]

All I could think of when Victor and that obnoxious girl were in the car with the scarf was Isadora Duncan.

[Brattinella]

Me, too!   What a tragic end she had.

[jordanpond]

It seems like everything and everyone in this show is turning to shit.  It's just depressing and sad, and it was SUCH a joyful show in the beginning!  I miss it.

Yes! Season one was so full of fun and risk and adventure.

And even though Season Two covered more serious themes like the death of soldiers, the mystery surrounding Henri, and the threat to Harry's reputation, we also had tango parties and lively concerts and a sexy chocolate demonstration and flirty romances. And lots of funny moments.

Now we're lucky if we get two or three moments per episode that actually makes us smile.

[LittleIggy]

I wish Ms. Mardle, when Grove mentioned Doris breaking her wedding vows, had said "Well, you did, too!" He's such a sanctimonious douche.

[Ms Lark]

For the first few seasons every time Grove came on screen, I'd think "Dick."  Then Loxley came around and I couldn't call them both "Dick" so now Grove is "Big Dick" and Loxly is "Little Dick." Want to have a slap-a-thon on both of them and hope they bugger off next year. At least Grove did something less dickish this week, but I can't help but think Earnest will still get short shrift from him. At least his siblings will take up the slack in that department, he's loved by them.

 

Oh, dear. Is Nancy-the-grifter really going to marry Mr. Selfridge? Isn't she already married to her partner in crime? I wonder if Marie will out her in some way? Takes one to know one!

[Brookside]

Ms Lark -  her partner in crime is her brother.

[AZChristian]

Yep, they're brother and sister, but did anyone else pick up some really weird vibes between them?  First he yells at her because she's STOPPED sleeping with Selfridge, and then they do that hug/almost a dance step.  That whole scene set off my "yuck-o-meter."

[SonofaBiscuit]

Yes, Mr. Grove continues to be a giant A-hole.  At the beginning of the episode, I was wishing they would just kill him off.  They tried to redeem him there at the end, but too late!  I still hate him.

 

Miss Mardle needs a man like George (why did they have to kill off Florian?!)...a man who is good and sweet and caring.  I never really paid much attention to him until last night's episode, but he's pretty great.  Seriously do not want him back with Kitty EVER, though.

 

Poor Grace.  She isn't wrong that she comes from a very different world than Gordon, and I'm not sure Harry would approve of the relationship, but Grace and Gordon are better people than the whole lot of Selfridges/their significant others.  Harry was an adulterer, his girlfriend is a con artist,  Vioelette is SUPER obnoxious, Victor is into a bunch of shady stuff, and Rosalie's husband started the season as a gigantic jerk (btw, I just discovered that the actresses who play Rosalie and Violette are real-life sisters Kara and Hannah Tointon.  Would have never guessed that).  Basically, Gordon should do what he wants and be happy with Grace. 

[AZChristian]

Miss Mardle needs a man like George (why did they have to kill off Florian?!)...a man who is good and sweet and caring.  I never really paid much attention to him until last night's episode, but he's pretty great.  Seriously do not want him back with Kitty EVER, though.

 

Poor Grace.  She isn't wrong that she comes from a very different world than Gordon, and I'm not sure Harry would approve of the relationship, but Grace and Gordon are better people than the whole lot of Selfridges/their significant others.  Harry was an adulterer, his girlfriend is a con artist,  Vioelette is SUPER obnoxious, Victor is into a bunch of shady stuff, and Rosalie's husband started the season as a gigantic jerk (btw, I just discovered that the actresses who play Rosalie and Violette are real-life sisters Kara and Hannah Tointon.  Would have never guessed that).  Basically, Gordon should do what he wants and be happy with Grace. 

 

George:  Back at the beginning of the series, I had the feeling that George was a little slow, and that Agnes got him the job on the loading dock because it was just about all he could handle.  He has grown as a character, and was just awesome last night with the Ernest situation.  Obviously very wise, too, based on his conversation with Mr. Grove. 

 

Gordon and Grace:  Why would Harry have a problem with it?  He "married up" when he married Rose, and they seemed to be pretty happy.

 

Violette and Rosalie:  Thanks for the info that they're real-life sisters.  When looking at them last night, I had the thought that it was nice that they hired two actresses who actually looked like they could have been sisters in real life.

[Ohwell]

Yep, they're brother and sister, but did anyone else pick up some really weird vibes between them?  First he yells at her because she's STOPPED sleeping with Selfridge, and then they do that hug/almost a dance step.  That whole scene set off my "yuck-o-meter."

The actress who plays the grifter is interesting because that's the same type of role she played in "Hustle" (except that she and her fellow grifters only conned the "bad" or "greedy" people).  And again, she worked with her brother and I thought they had a rather creepy relationship because the brother was always jealous.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Gordon and Grace:  Why would Harry have a problem with it?  He "married up" when he married Rose, and they seemed to be pretty happy.

 

Mainly, I think that Harry would discourage Gordon from dating one of the girls from the store because of how that might look to the other employees.  Maybe more of a business issue than anything else.  Like, it could lead to resentment against Grace if the employees thought that she was receiving special perks since she was involved with the boss.  I'm not sure if Harry would have a problem with the fact that Grace isn't a member of the same "social class" (or whatever you want to call it) as the Selfridges.  He obviously thought Rosalie was marrying well, but I'm not sure if he expects his children to marry money or not. 

[JudyObscure]

I thought Nancy just told Harry the partner in crime was her brother, but he's actually her lover. Can't say where I got that idea, though.

Everything is so hopelessly messed up right now. Harry is throwing away his store. Mr. Groves is improving but still not good enough for Miss Mardle who seems to be an incorrigible one man woman. The parasite old woman is now spreading gossip about one of the Selfridge daughters. I want her and her slimy son tossed out on their ears, new baby coming or not! Victor keeps going downhill toward big time racketeering. George is going to fall for Kitty's sister, while I think he and Kitty actually love each other.

Only Mr. Crabb remains saintly with his magazines about housekeepers and nannys.

[Ohwell]

I thought Nancy just told Harry the partner in crime was her brother, but he's actually her lover. Can't say where I got that idea, though.

Now that you mention I, I think I heard that, too, but I don't remember when.  (She still was icky with her brother in "Hustle" though.) 

 

So I guess there'll be more drama if /when Ernest's father seeks custody?  Not looking forward to that.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Only Mr. Crabb remains saintly with his magazines about housekeepers and nannys.

 

And his little wind-up motorcycle and knitted cardigan/matching hat set.  Adorable.  

[jordanpond]

 

Poor Grace.  She isn't wrong that she comes from a very different world than Gordon, and I'm not sure Harry would approve of the relationship, but Grace and Gordon are better people than the whole lot of Selfridges/their significant others.  Harry was an adulterer, his girlfriend is a con artist,  Vioelette is SUPER obnoxious, Victor is into a bunch of shady stuff, and Rosalie's husband started the season as a gigantic jerk (btw, I just discovered that the actresses who play Rosalie and Violette are real-life sisters Kara and Hannah Tointon.  Would have never guessed that).  Basically, Gordon should do what he wants and be happy with Grace.

Agreed! Grace and Gordon are the only romantic couple in Harry's family in which I like both people in the couple. All season long, they've gotten so much less screen time than Harry and Nancy, Rosalie and Serge, And Violette and Victor. And now they've split up, despite seeming to me by far the most well suited of these couples! This show just doesn't make any sense any more.

[jordanpond]

About Nancy ' s partner in crime: I didn't think they ever explained who he was. When we first see him, Nancy introduces him to Harry as "Mr. Gerrard, the architect." Earlier in the season Nancy told Harry she had a brother, but I don't think the show ever indicated that Mr. Gerrard actually was her brother. So, I think it remains a mystery.

[AZChristian]

About Nancy ' s partner in crime: I didn't think they ever explained who he was. When we first see him, Nancy introduces him to Harry as "Mr. Gerrard, the architect." Earlier in the season Nancy told Harry she had a brother, but I don't think the show ever indicated that Mr. Gerrard actually was her brother. So, I think it remains a mystery.

 

I've done a little more googling.  I believe you're right that there is no official word that Gerrard is her brother, but sentiment seems to run about 50/50 that he is.  Guess we'll have to wait and see.

[zoey1996]

Gordon and Grace:  Why would Harry have a problem with it?  He "married up" when he married Rose, and they seemed to be pretty happy.

 

Yes, but Harry may be concerned that Grace is "marrying up" just for the money and prestige.  It may be more usual for a woman to marry up than for a man, so it's logical to me that Grace would be involved with/marry Gordon, and there does seem to be a genuine mutual attraction there.

[AZChristian]

Did anyone see Jeremy Piven on Today this morning?  He was being interviewed as a character he plays in a movie (Ari Gold), He referred to a show called "Mr. Selfie" starring an actor named "JPiv."

 

Would have been a lot more fun if Matt Lauer wasn't doing the interview.

[morakot]

So Mr. Grove sent away the boy he reared as his only son -- in the night, with only the clothes on his back, in the arms of the woman he used when cheating on his first wife.  Lucky he never thought about adopting. The boy's lucky to be rid of a parent who is only interested in his own sperm -- and his sisters should be considering running away to someone who will actually care about and for them,

[txhorns79]

After watching the episode, I think my main question is how Harry ever became a successful store owner.  His decision making abilities seem to veer between somewhat good and almost comically reckless with little in between.   

 

George:  Back at the beginning of the series, I had the feeling that George was a little slow, and that Agnes got him the job on the loading dock because it was just about all he could handle.  He has grown as a character, and was just awesome last night with the Ernest situation.  Obviously very wise, too, based on his conversation with Mr. Grove.

 

I had thought George was portrayed as slow at the beginning of the series too.   They kind of dropped that plot point. 

[treeofdreams]

George also helped Kitty resolve her situation.  Perhaps he has simply grown up; I don't know how old he was at the beginning of the series.  He had been abused for years by his father; now that he is free of that, and has had a successful job at Selfridge's handling responsibility, his confidence level has increased tremendously. Plus he fought in the war, which is, sadly, another growing experience.

Edited May 13, 2015 by treeofdreams

[Ms Lark]

Ms Lark -  her partner in crime is her brother.

Ah, I did not pick up on that. They seemed a little too close for comfort!

 

I've done a little more googling.  I believe you're right that there is no official word that Gerrard is her brother, but sentiment seems to run about 50/50 that he is.  Guess we'll have to wait and see.

Yep! It'll be interesting how it all plays out.

[jordanpond]

With all the Grove kids, I almost missed that Mr. (Arthur) Crabb's godson was Ernest's older brother, Arthur. It was nice to see little Arthur finally receive his wind up toy.

Once again, George was amazing. And so was Mrs. Crabb, even though she was off screen again. I miss her! Wow. That's pretty sad when you think about, that one of the best things done in the episode, the little knit outfit, was produced by someone the producers didn't even bother showing in the episode.

i did find the new promotion very exciting. A good mix of the traditional Selfridge's with a modern twist.

I didn't get why Connie just dropped by for magazines without arranging it first with Miss Mardle. That scene seemed pointless. To tell you the truth, even though I like Connie, the amount of responsibility she, a former dock worker, is given seems very unrealistic. There are probably a dozen women in fashion ahead of her, and they're treating her like a first assistant. Her story isn't consistent with how they've always shown us how things work at Selfridge's.

Elsa's goldish outfit at the club was gorgeous.

Edited May 14, 2015 by jordanpond

[AZChristian]

According to IMDB, the architect is definitely Nancy's brother.

According to IMDB, the architect is definitely Nancy's brother.

[Ohwell]

I knew she wanted to get back with Mr. Groves.  I just knew it.  That's why she couldn't stay out of his life.

 

So Nancy and Gus were brother and sister, just like the role the actress played on "Hustle."  I think it's rather creepy that she likes to play these roles.

 

I'm glad Gordon chose love over a job.  And even though I haven't liked Violette, I'm hoping things work out with the Frenchman. 

 

The Russian mama redeemed herself somewhat.  I thought she was lying about the jewels, so I was glad to know she was telling the truth, and offered to repay Selfridge.  She's still got some grifter in her though because it didn't take her long to be onto Nancy and Gus. 

[LittleIggy]

I liked Harry ripping Nancy a new one. Ms. Mardle and Grove together again? Ugh! Shrimpy Lord Douchebag looked so funny with his great big minion.

IRL, Violette (she lived to be 99!) married and divorced the Frenchman and Gordon didn't get married until he was 40.

[AZChristian]

Did NOT want to see Miss Mardle back with Mr. Grove.  She deserves better, and he deserves to stew in his juices.

[Micks Picks]

How depressing this was.  I really enjoyed the first few seasons, but this season was a downer all the way.  

[Ms Lark]

Not terribly keen Miss Mardle took Grove (aka Big Dick) back, but if she's happy, I guess that's all that counts. I had hoped she'd be stronger than that.

 

Knew when they said the Prince was gambling with two dancers it was time for the Dolly Sisters to show up. Unfortunately, Loxley (Little Dick) was correct when he said Harry has his weaknesses. I have a feeling next season will be much sadder than this one, especially since it's the last one.

[kittygirl]

Has to be sad next season. IRL, Selfridge came to a sad, penniless end. But he changed the way we shop and was quite the character. I think Jeremy Piven has done a good job with the role.

However, the Grove - Marble storyline is a dud, IMHO.

[Micks Picks]

You mean to tell me there is a next season?  I loved the opening of the store, and how employees were treated, and the way the shopping experience was changed, as was women in the workplace, loved the whole darned thing.  But this is just going chug even further into the despair of Harry, flat broke and buggering every gold digger around?  I got the point already, and it's dreadful.  Even though I knew at the beginning how he ended up, it would have been great not to go there in cinema.

[SFoster21]

Zoe Wanamaker is so great, chewing up the scenery left and right with fabulous clothes!

[kathe5133]

Really........ I know I am late to the party, but, really? I honestly had to force myself to watch this season. Grove and Mardle? How sad. Victor is dumber than a box of rocks. And Harry? No words. I like Gordon and like George, I will tune in next season to see what happens to them, but this show is really missing Agnes and Henri, not shell shocked, drunken, sobbing mess Henri, but the man from the first season. The show is missing Lady May and Rose is missed the most!

[SonofaBiscuit]

Mr. Grove is such an ass.  The entire time I was wishing he would die in a fire.  He's the worst.  I hate how he is completely horrible, and then all is expected to be forgiven because he is nice for two seconds.  Now I can't even enjoy Miss Mardle's story because I hate that they ended up together.  So, now is she going to quit her job to take care of Mr. Grove's children when she just said an episode ago that she's lacking maternal instinct and she couldn't wait to get back to work after watching baby Ernest for one weekend?  NO!!!

 

George is really a sweetheart.  I'm liking him more and more each episode which is surprising since he was kind of forgettable to me in the first two seasons.

 

I'm glad that Gordon chose Grace over his job, but I wonder if that's going to stick.  I hope so since it's one of the few enjoyable storylines left on this show.

[apgold]

Having watched the finale, I’m of mixed feelings of Grove and Josie.  He obviously needs her more than she needs him but I suppose he makes her happy when he’s not being an ass.  I suppose he needs her to call him on his BS and she needs to take care of him. She won’t be his doormat and I hope he realizes that he can’t treat her that way.  I think she is my favorite character at the moment.  If only Florian hadn’t died in the war…

 

Happy for Gordon and Grace, although Pa won’t be happy about it.  Same for George and Kitty’s sister (forget her name), they are cute together.

 

Overall, this season was darker and more depressing with a few brighter spots.  Obviously Harry is on a downward spiral and will probably be taken advantage of by women (as Nancy warned him).

 

I would love Lady Mae to come back with her new husband next season and stick it to Loxley.  He’s such a miserable vindictive little man.

 

I won’t miss Violette, she was far too annoying.  I kind of miss Agnes, though but I think her storyline is done.

Edited May 20, 2015 by apgold

[txhorns79]

Overall, this season was darker and more depressing with a few brighter spots.  Obviously Harry is on a downward spiral and will probably be taken advantage of by women (as Nancy warned him).

 

Yeah, if I remember the history right, the Dolly sisters ruin him, or, at least, help him on the road to destroying himself. 

 

I'm deeply disappointed in Miss Mardle.  She deserves so much better, and really just has terrible judgment in men.