Mr. Selfridge - General Discussion

[jordanpond]

I'm trying to avoid all information about the real life happenings so that I remain unspoiled for any actual events they mix in with the fiction of the show.

Perhaps we need a spoiler thread for discussion of any real life events? Then the spoiled folks could chat about things they know will happen, while those of us who want to remain completely unspoiled could keep out of the spoiler thread and remain spoiler free in all the episode threads.

Edited April 20, 2015 by jordanpond

[maraleia]

Here is your place to talk all things Selfridge that really happened as well as how that compares to the show.

[maraleia]

I'm trying to avoid all information about the real life happenings so that I remain unspoiled for any actual events they mix in with the fiction of the show.

Perhaps we need a spoiler thread for discussion of any real life events? Then the spoiled folks could chat about things they know will happen, while those of us who want to remain completely unspoiled could keep out of the spoiler thread and remain spoiler free in all the episode threads.

Here is the thread for that http://forums.previously.tv/topic/25272-the-real-harry-selfridge-and-selfridges-happenings/#entry1056062

Let's take all of our conversations relating to this topic there. Thanks!

[Jolie]

I was bored last night. Maybe because I don't really care for new the storylines, or the new characters plus Selfridge daughters' American accent grate on me. I also can't stand Loxley either--seeing him makes me miss Lady Mae. I still enjoy the most of the scenes that take place in the store, but there are fewer and fewer of those. 

 

I wish the series stopped at the end of Season 2. It's better to tell a good story and be done with it rather than drag it out. Does anyone know if there will be a Season 4. If there is no end in sight I might have to throw in the towel.

[Ohwell]

Yeah, I don't want to know what the real life story is either, but all I know is that I'm sick of some of the characters.  I can't stand that daughter Violette, can't stand the Russian grifter mama or her son, and now it turns out that the building lady is a crook, too.  Also, it was presumptuous of Harry's mama to invite the woman to live in his home without asking him first.  Can't stand her either.

 

Kitty's breathy, baby voice gets on my nerves and I can't stand to see or hear her either.  I'm sick of her storyline.  Don't care.

 

I also don't like Miss Mardle becoming so chummy with Mr. Groves' wife.  I don't know if she is so desperate to be in Mr. Groves' life that she's decided to befriend his wife, but it's creepy and she needs to butt out of his marriage.

 

The only main characters I like are Mr. Selfridge (faults and all), Mr. Crabb and George.

 

So yeah, I'm about ready to throw in the towel, too.  I'll finish this season but I don't see going on after that.

[maraleia]

I really hope they stop before they get to the Dolly Sisters debacle.

I'm afraid you aren't going to get your wish. Check this out http://metro.co.uk/2015/03/29/mr-selfridge-season-4-spoilers-who-were-the-dolly-sisters-harrys-million-dollar-dollies-5118384/

[Fishy]

I agree with everything OhWell said.  I'm losing interest f a s t.

[LittleIggy]

Does Harry have a Dorian Grey portrait? He hasn't aged since the show began.

[jordanpond]

I have to agree with a lot of what all of you have said. I must say, I did love the scenes of Gordon and Grace. Last season she was spot on when he was struggling to write the condolence letter and she took him to deliver his message in person. This time the stakes are much higher, and I hope she once again has read him correctly and his work in all those different departments will make him a success as deputy. I'd love to see him do well, and for the two of these very nice people to continue their very sweet romance.

But the two of them were not enough. We needed more happiness in the show. So now Doris has had an affair, Nancy has turned out to be a crook, Kitty is being blamed for her own attack, Victor and all his customers can get arrested for obeying the law. It's just bad news all around. The show has changed its tone so much that it's not like the first two seasons of "Mr. Selfridge " at all any more.

By the way, I think that Violette had the potential to have a much more interesting story. She was a teenage suffragette, and in this season's premiere, was someone who wanted to work rather than be idle. For all his relatively progressive ways regarding opportunities for his female staff, Harry's not very progressive with his family, since he made Gordon sole heir to the business. So I do sympathize with Violette. That was probably a very limiting and frustrating gender role for someone to be forced to play at that time. But the young Violette of season one would have been smart and resourceful enough to figure out something to do that would have been interesting to both her and us, the audience. Instead, she is chasing after a man who took great pleasure in being rude to her the first time she visited the bar. That to me is the opposite of independent. And it's far from being interesting.

Jolie, as much as it pains me to say it, I think you may be right in that the show should have concluded after season two. The combination of having bad things happen to most of the old characters, while focusing so much on new characters that have boring stories isn't a good formula for success this season. I thought that the one really interesting addition to this season's cast was Nancy. And now they destroyed what made her so compelling. (It appears to me that she is fictional. If not, they do have to go with what really happened, but could have given some of the fictional characters like George some happier story lines to balance things out.)

Edited April 21, 2015 by jordanpond

[SonofaBiscuit]

I wish that they would get Miss Mardle out of Mr. Grove's orbit (difficult, I know, since they work at the same store and all).  He was a gigantic jerk to her, so I don't ever want those two to end up together again.  I thought that the Florian/Miss Mardle relationship was an interesting story, but then they had to go and kill the poor guy off :(

 

I do not like Victor, I'm so happy that Agnes did not end up with him, and unfortunately, I really hate Victor with Violette.  I think that she's the literal worst.  The other two Selfridge siblings seem like much nicer people, why can't we spend more time with them?  The poor girl that is married to the prince (I don't even know her name!) isn't even an active participant in her life!  The entire story is about her shady husband and mother-in-law.  Gordon is just lovely, I like all of the stuff with him and Grace, and I hope that he continues to step up as he takes on more responsibilities.

 

I think that it's time to add some new, interesting characters and get rid of the ones whose storylines have run their course. 

[Ohwell]

I forgot to add that I also like Gordon. 

 

I'll miss Henri and Agnes.  I'd like to think that wherever they went, their marriage will survive and they'll have beautiful babies. 

[scootypuffjr]

We needed more happiness in the show.

 

This sums it up perfectly for me.  Of course, you need some drama to keep things interesting, but this "all drama all the time" business is just tiring and depressing.  I will keep watching, but I do hope they will drum up some less stressful story lines soon.

[izabella]

Yes, I want to see more fun and less angst.  It seems the show is going in the opposite direction, though.

[StrictTime]

Even though I spend most of each episode rolling my eyes, I can't quit Selfridge. Probably because I love costume dramas in general. And because I think Mr. Grove is the sexiest thing on TV right now. Something about him just gets me. Almost nothing else interests me anymore, except for the clothes and Mr. Crabbe's face. Violette -- horrible. Loxley--horrible. The "Prince" and his mother--horrible. Nancy--horrible. Agnes was awesome and now she's gone. Henri was gorgeous and looked like he smelled fabulous and he's gone. Lady Mae was fun and wicked and now she's gone.

But I will watch until the bitter end. And from the way it looks, it's gonna be very, very bitter indeed.

[Quilt Fairy]

The actor who plays Gordon has an American accent in one scene and a British accent in the next. It's driving me crazy!

[LittleIggy]

I was hoping someone at the party would recognize Miss Webb. I knew no good would come of Harry selling part of his shares. The preview confirmed my fear of who would buy the shares.

[Blackie]

In Season 1, Miss Mardle was so frumpy and dowdy and looked way too old to be with Mr Grove,i never believed their affair.  Now they have let the natural beauty of the actress come through and she is very beautiful.  I hope she doesn't get back together with MrGrove but I imagine that is what will happen.

When they first showed Doris's baby I thought he looked so much like Mr Grove, I thought maybe the baby was his in real life. 

Too bad Henri and Agnus had to leave, they had a compelling story line, all the rest is meh.

 

ETA;Just looked up the actress who plays Miss Mardle, Amanda Abbingotn.  She is 10 years younger than me!  I thought in season 1 they had her looking like she was in her late50's.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Blackie

[JudyObscure]

I've been expecting poor Doris to die in childbirth since the day she married Mr. Groves, but I didn't expect this gruesome, run down by a vehicle, thing. Poor mousey girl, I never believed her character would have the gumption for an affair. I guess I think Mr. Groves has been punished enough, I want to see him and Miss Mardle back in the tub together.

Listen up ladies of Selfridge! Just because you can wear lipstick now doesn't mean you need to use the entire tube in one go! Plus there are other shades besides, "Moonlight Maroon."

It's amazing how quickly Nancy went from pretty to ugly in my eyes. Her evil is showing through.

[Quilt Fairy]

Victor has always been hot to me!

Especially with that lovely Welsh accent he has in his personal interviews!

[SonofaBiscuit]

I hope that they didn't kill Doris so that Miss Mardle can get back together with Mr. Grove.  He is such an ass!  The crap he pulled with getting Gordon to unknowingly sign off on the "racy" window design was just really underhanded.  I'm glad that it actually backfired.  

 

Gordon continues to be sweet and lovely.  I thought it was cute when he asked Grace to be his girl, and she said that she needed to think about it.  Paraphrasing here: "Okay, I've thought about it, and the answer is yes."

 

I'm wondering if they are thinking about putting Kitty back together with George (I think they dated briefly, right?).  Hope not for his sake...don't think that he has the right type of personality for someone like Kitty (I know that she's married, but her husband has been involved in some shady stuff this season).  

[Brattinella]

Wow this has gotten so depressing!  I REALLY don't want sweet Miss Mardle to take back that back-stabbing piece of crap Mr Grove EVER!!  I am now starting to hate Violette, and Victor is a wussy for backing down.  I think the thugs should have a go at Nancy! (Miserable mood, me) And, last and most definitely least comes Loxley, who should drown in boiling excrement forever.

[Ohwell]

Well.  Miss Mardle has another shot at Mr.Groves now that his wife is out of the picture.  I'm sorry, but I never liked Miss Mardle meddling in the marriage and while I know she's not responsible for the death, I just don't like her anymore. 

[treeofdreams]

 

In Season 1, Miss Mardle was so frumpy and dowdy and looked way too old to be with Mr Grove,i never believed their affair.  Now they have let the natural beauty of the actress come through and she is very beautiful.  I hope she doesn't get back together with MrGrove but I imagine that is what will happen.

 

I was just thinking last night about the change in Miss Mardle.  It is not only how they have dressed her and made her up; there is a significant change in her demeanor.  She used to be very mousy and kept her eyes lowered when she spoke to Harry or to any of the other men (even though she ruled the women in her department with a firm hand!).  But now she has an air of confidence about her, and she speaks directly to the men, as an equal; she was even considering applying for the deputy position.  Perhaps it was her affair with Florian that is part of the change; perhaps it is partly that she is now independently wealthy and doesn't need the job.  At any rate, I think it adds greatly to her attractiveness.

[Brookside]

I was just thinking last night about the change in Miss Mardle.  It is not only how they have dressed her and made her up; there is a significant change in her demeanor.  She used to be very mousy and kept her eyes lowered when she spoke to Harry or to any of the other men (even though she ruled the women in her department with a firm hand!).  But now she has an air of confidence about her, and she speaks directly to the men, as an equal; she was even considering applying for the deputy position.  Perhaps it was her affair with Florian that is part of the change; perhaps it is partly that she is now independently wealthy and doesn't need the job.  At any rate, I think it adds greatly to her attractiveness.

If they continue her character development as it's been going, I think she's grown too much backbone to get back with Mr Grove.

Still can't stand "Master" Gordon's moustache.

[treeofdreams]

If Miss Mardle marries Mr. Grove (which I assume they would do, rather than just having a relationship) she would have to give up her job to stay home and take care of the children.

 

There is another possible scenario involving them: with Doris dead, the baby daddy of #5 may want custody of his child and will tell Mr. Grove about the affair; Grove will also find out that Miss Mardle knew about it, and will be far too angry with her to get back together.

 

At any rate, I do hope she doesn't wind up with him again.

 

On another note, kudos to the princess for her solution for her son: Don't be her husband, be her lover.    Which is working for the moment, but may be threatened with his sale of Selfridge stock to Loxley.

[LittleIggy]

I might give half a flip about Violette if the actress who plays her wasn't so awful. That flat nasal "American" accent kills it for me.

[Brattinella]

And I always thought Kitty and Frank were delicious together!  I do hope they can fix it.

[jordanpond]

deleted erroneous post

Edited April 29, 2015 by jordanpond

[JudyObscure]

And I always thought Kitty and Frank were delicious together!  I do hope they can fix it.

I always did, too, but now Frank seems to be letting her down while George, of all people, has become her strong protector. He's changed so much from the shy, nervous boy who first loved her. Whatever happens, the Kitty-story is my favorite one this season.

[jordanpond]

Okay, so I tried to quote multiple posts and it was a disaster. So, I'll chat with you one person at a time.

Ddawn23, I've been really enjoying Mrs. Crabb, too. And I agree with you that early on, she wasn't the type of person to shop at Selfridge's. But I think her current enthusiasm isn't

really a contradiction, but rather a gradual "winning over" of her to the fun of browsing. I recall that during the war she came to Selfridge's as part of her massive hoarding of merchandise. And I'm not sure, but I think she also attended the king's visit or some other major event and bought herself a hat. Between all the beautiful merchandise, and the fun of sharing tea in the Palm Court with Mr. Crabb, I think she just gradually transformed from the old-time "necessities only" shopper into the "Selfridge" shopper who is there to have fun. She is far more interesting and fun than the other senior women (Lois, Marie) and I wish she were on more often.

LittleIggy, I know that a few Chicago area posters have said that the Violet and Rosalie accent is pretty accurate. So I wouldn't be having such a problem with it if that had been the sisters' accent in prior seasons. But the sisters' accents from seasons one and two were much less pronounced. So I'm completely with you that it's now really annoying, especially since Violette is always shouting. It's as annoying as a goose honking.

Even though Rosalie's accent is slightly less pronounced, and she doesn't shout all the time, I'm having a really hard time buying this actress as Rosalie, because she sounds, looks, and acts completely different than the old Rosalie. There's nothing the same at all. The season is more than half over, and she still feels like some Selfridge cousin who joined the show. Not a shred of the season one/two Rosalie at all.

So I guess both Selfridge sisters are disappointments for me, each for an awful lot of reasons.

Edited April 30, 2015 by jordanpond

[jordanpond]

So I forgot to write but what I liked this episode. I thought that rotating display of all the autumn toned merchandise was wonderful! The color combinations were gorgeous, and it was one of those great slices of 100 years ago that the staff was giggly with excitement over the new technology of it all. Three cheers for Gordon's little bit of budding artistry to put together that all the missing things were in the same color scheme, even if the word "brown" offended Miss Mardle ' s sensibilities about the burnt sienna garment and Kitty's sensibilities that tortoise shell was a blend of colors. Equally funny was that his second success regarding the bloomers was a a complete accident. Not a bad start for our new and earnest deputy,

The fundraiser for the soldiers' furniture looked like great fun. Great music and costumes and dancing.

Prior to Doris' tragic death, I was thinking that the solution to the baby Earnest situation was handled so nicely by all parties involved. That was another of those little "slices of life" from 100 years ago that we can still relate to today. No lawsuits or threats, just some decent people who made a mistake and are trying to come to a way to make everyone happy. They looked like they were on their way to a pretty happy future. The outcome was tragic, of course, but I thought the whole course of events was very well done.

George was wonderful.

I hope Kitty and Frank turn out okay, but he did let her down in several ways, including sometimes putting his needs above hers. But Kitty is Kitty, and a big part of being Kitty is being taken to restaurant, so I guess their little lunch date upon hearing the good news was the best possible start she could take toward a new beginning. Fingers crossed for some happiness for Kitty!

Edited May 1, 2015 by jordanpond

[SFoster21]

Truly great clothes in this ep.

[Brattinella]

Truly great clothes in this ep.

 

I do miss Lady Mae's extravagant wardrobe!  So wonderful!  And the Russian Princess mother-in-law, too.  Swoon!

[jordanpond]

I guess I think Mr. Groves has been punished enough, I want to see him and Miss Mardle back in the tub together.

I think you broke my heart a little there. I think that would be a very sad step backwards in self-esteem for Miss M. to ever entertain romantic thoughts for him again . I don't wish any thing bad for him , I just don't think he deserves a woman as good as Josie and didn't think he deserved Doris, either (knowing that he was hoping to cheat on Doris from the start.)

[JudyObscure]

You're so right, Jordanpond, I lost my head there for a minute. Just my own selfish desire to see two sexy actors in the bath.

[LittleIggy]

I wanted to punch Groves! That baby is your son not a piece of junk for you to throw out! Poor little guy. Explain his absence to his siblings, asshole!

[Ohwell]

I think Groves was right to let the son go to his father.  Groves knew that he could never love the child the way he loves his own, and at least his real father will have his own child.  

 

Miss Mardle--I have no words for her.  She was acting like Groves's prospective new wife when she was involved with the funeral arrangements.  I'm glad he tossed her out with the baby,   

[JudyObscure]

I agree that the baby should go with his real father at this point but how he's going to explain it to those children who just lost their mother is beyond me.  I just want Miss Mardle to be safely away from the whole situation.  She has given so much of herself to this man and he has never appreciated her.  I had thought that he probably regretted his hasty marriage to Doris and the way he hurt Miss M, but apparently not.  He was only too eager to lash out at her for trying to help andblame her for things that weren't her fault.

 

Who is there to like these days?  Victor had no excuse to be so hurtful to George.  Vee-o-lette is a pushy idiot who really should go home and quit spending the night in bars. Kitty seems almost ready to cheat on Frank with George and that can't have a happy ending.  And Harry!  Harry has surrounded himself with con-artists and parasites and put his family and his life's work at risk.  Where is the smart man who built a retail empire?

 

I'm just watching for Mr. Crabb now.

[AZChristian]

The Grove thing was weird for sure.  He seems to have given Ernest away (and "unfriended" Josie) out of anger.  Yet, maybe it's better - and more fair - to give Ernest to his birth father, who wanted him and will love him.

 

But how DO you explain it to the older children?  "Your mother is dead, and I gave away your brother."  They must be terrified that he'll give them away, too.

[JudyObscure]

Maybe they will think Mommy left them and took the baby?  It's all just horrible isn't it?

[AZChristian]

But he had already told the older kids that Mom was dead.  So they know she didn't take the baby.

[LittleIggy]

I didn't say it wouldn't perhaps be right for the baby to go to his biological father, but not way Groves did it.

[Ohwell]

I don't know if there was any other "correct" way for Groves to give the baby away to his father.  I do wonder how he'll explain it to his children though.  Maybe tell them the truth, that he isn't the father, but put the mother in the best light possible?  Your mom made a mistake with another man while I was away, but she was a wonderful person and I loved her?  

 

She has given so much of herself to this man and he has never appreciated her.

In my mind, she meddled, hoping to get back into his life.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I imagine that Mr. Grove will find another wife very soon because he's certainly not going to stay home to watch all of his children (although, now apparently he'll have one less since he's going to just give that one back).  I know that the last boy isn't biologically his, but who raises a child they think is theirs, finds out he's not, and then just says "Well old chap, we had some good times, but farewell!"  It's just crazy to me that a parent wouldn't fight to keep their child, biological or not.  Run Josie, run!  Your future will be incredibly bleak with this man.  Sadly, I didn't really care much about anything else that was happening in this episode.  I miss Agnes and Henri, but I believe that the actors wanted to leave, so I think that's the end of their story.

[StrictTime]

Ugh, this show. Now with super cheesy soap opera music. There is not one story line that is interesting to me--all so melodramatic.

I always watch "Call the Midwife" and MS back-to-back, which is a mistake. The exquisiteness of the story-telling in CtM just makes MS look so so much worse.

Just two weeks ago I claimed I couldn't quit Selfridge. Now, I can't see myself watching ever again.

[cattykit]

So Roger can cheat on his sick wife for years with Josie, but...hypocrite much?  Especially considering he dumped Josie precisely for her lack of brood mare capability, it's odd that he would toss the baby back to his father.  Notice how he immediately depersonalized the baby by calling him "it" and "the child?" 

 

Josie should be so, so grateful.

 

The rest of the story, including Loxley showing up to twirl his moustache, was beyond predictable.  Yawn.

[Ohwell]

No.  I predict she'll try to get him back.  And whatever grief she gets from him from now on is on her.  I still say she shouldn't have meddled.

[lark37]

 

I know that a few Chicago area posters have said that the Violet and Rosalie accent is pretty accurate. So I wouldn't be having such a problem with it if that had been the sisters' accent in prior seasons. But the sisters' accents from seasons one and two were much less pronounced. So I'm completely with you that it's now really annoying, especially since Violette is always shouting. It's as annoying as a goose honking.

 

I have lived in the Chicago area my entire life, and I've never heard accents like that.  Maybe people are a little nasally in some areas of the south side (think da Bears), but I think you hit the nail on the head with Violette, its the shouting.  Jeremy Piven is from the Chicago area (although he grew up in the upscale North shore) and he tends to shout many of his lines too. Did he give the actress "how to sound like you're from Chicago" lessons lol!   Either way, they should have used the same actress they used in previous seasons for Rosalie and casted another actress to play the grown up Violette.  And, what happened to the other daughter? I thought there were three Selfridge daughters!  

[lark37]

 

 

In my mind, she meddled, hoping to get back into his life.

 

Perhaps I remember it incorrectly, but I thought Doris unburdened herself to Miss Mardle.  I think Miss Mardle, although she certainly has her faults, was genuinely trying to help Doris not meddle to get back into Mr. Groves' life.  What she ever saw in him though in the first place is beyond me!  Poor baby Ernest will hopefully be better off with his father than a man who would always resent him.

[Ohwell]

Yes, I believe that Doris did unburden herself to Miss Mardle, but she could have gently recused herself.  My feeling is that she didn't want to.

 

I agree that the baby is probably better off with his father, and I also think that Groves knew that he would always resent the child.  So he did the right thing.