S05.E01: Guess Who's Coming to the White Party?

[Mozelle]

I don't get all the Camille love. Have people forgotten what an entitled, stuck up, you are all so beneath me rich Beverly Hills bitch she was before Kelsey dumped her? He knocked her off her pedestal hard.  I believe that is the only reason she softened up. If she was still with him, she wouldn't have changed a bit. 

 

I don't particularly care for Camille, even after her PR move of seeming not like an ass. I agree with you that the very public divorce and the fact that Kelsey was parading around his mistress/girlfriend softened up Camille a bit, but there still lurks a nasty side. When she was dating the Greek guy, who was going through some sort of custody issue with the mother of his son, audio leaked of Camille on the phone with the woman. I guess the woman said that she'd take her story to the tabloids, and Camille's response was about how she'd "desecrate" the woman if she did so. 

Edited November 21, 2014 by Mozelle

[motorcitymom65]

 

Lisa did tell Brandi she was wrong to do that to Adrienne, she never supported what Brandi did but defended her because of the "lawsuit" threat. That Brandi lied to Lisa and everyone else is on Brandi, not the others IMO.

 

 

For me this is one of the best examples of the way that Lisa sways in the wind of public opinion, which I believe was a point in AnnaL's outstanding, epic post above. 

 

Initially Lisa showed compassion for Adrienne with regard to Brandi's reveal. She was firmly on Brandi's side and reminded everyone again of how hard life was for Brandi in general, but she also said that Brandi had been wrong, and I believe said something like "her heart ached for Adrienne" in one of her TH interviews. Then she became angry at Adrienne because she thought it was wrong of a rich gal to throw her power around in such a way. 

 

Cut to the reunion. We all know that the lawsuit was a big fat lie. The public, however, had spoken. Brandi was right and Adrienne was terrible. Suddenly the compassionate Lisa of the TH interviews was gone. She threw out perhaps the most memorable line of the reunion regarding this when she said "people with secrets shouldn't come on a reality show". No animosity for Brandi in the least. No words that Brandi was wrong. No way Lisa was going to say this when folks were just waiting to throw Brandi a parade. 

 

I will always believe that Lisa knew early on that the lawsuit was a lie. I cannot believe that she never asked to see the letter, especially when Lisa was the one during the whole Taylor/Camille legal rumbling who told Ken that if Russell was threatening to sue Camille over things she had repeated, who knew if Lisa and Ken might be next?  More than that however was the fact that Lisa didn't appear to be upset with Brandi about the lie. Out of everyone involved, Lisa was Brandi's biggest supporter, and the one most critical of Adrienne. It is impossible for me to imagine - placing myself in the same situation - that I wouldn't have been livid at a close friend who lied to me right along with everyone else, and sat by while I trashed folks who had no reason to be trashed.  Lisa is smart, and she would have recognized that Brandi had been using her because she was well-respected and a good voice to get the message out. The fact that Ken and Lisa remained steadfast in their loyalty to Brandi during this process and afterwards, has always made me think that they knew something much earlier than the rest of us did. 

[turbogirlnyc]

I don't get all the Camille love. Have people forgotten what an entitled, stuck up, you are all so beneath me rich Beverly Hills bitch she was before Kelsey dumped her? He knocked her off her pedestal hard.  I believe that is the only reason she softened up. If she was still with him, she wouldn't have changed a bit. 

 

For me, it's the fact that Camille did change. Karma (or whatever) bit her and therefore it's pointless to continue to hate on her. I don't think anyone has forgotten how Camille acted prior to her being dumped. When people are wrong, see the error of their ways (or get knocked down a few pegs) and make an effort to change, it's difficult to hold a grudge. Again, I'm only speaking for myself here. I'm not saying I'm a fan or love her but she's not on my TV screen a lot these days so whatever.

Edited November 21, 2014 by turbogirlnyc

[heebiejeebie]

For me it is simply that Camille has:

 

1.made public amends even if she is a raging bitch on wheels

 

2.removed herself from the show pretty much.  No familiarity, no chance to air my contempt

 

3.used her realization of how she came across season one not just as a modification of her public persona, but has proven to be a rather enjoyable foil when she does interact with the rest of the women.  I think Lisa, Brandi, Kyle and Yolanda all walking a little more wary when Camille is around.  For various reasons.  Or maybe not so much foil as a speeding hazard.  You drive through a neighborhood and you see a sign for one and you slow down even if you don't know where or when you might come across it.

 

But I don't like Camille more herself.  I thought she was heinous the first season and I think she would drive a stiletto through the skull of anyone who crossed her and she thought she could get away with it.  But she not only ate humble pie but she has admitted to eating it.  And that I do admire.  Self awareness associated with anything on these shows can be refreshing. 

 

Plus I so love the shadow of Season 1 Camille making Brandi and Yolanda in particular ever so slightly skittish whenever she slithers around.

[breezy424]

Lisa never said that Mauricio cheated on Kyle, never. Kyle never knew about Lisa's comment to Ken about "never say never" until after filming was over, so for all she knew, the only time Lisa brought up the tabloids was in her kitchen at the beginning of the season. If she was sooooo hurt by comments told to her by Brandi, why take the word of someone that you do not like and that you do not trust over someone that you do like/trust? The only one telling Kyle anything was Brandi or Kim after she talked to Brandi! LOL

Lisa didn't outright say that Mauricio cheated.  But what she did do, to quote Adrienne's comment in season 2, was 'stirred the pot'.  At the luncheon at Carlton's, it was Lisa who said where's there's smoke, there's fire.  It was Lisa who made the 'joke' in Kyle's kitchen.  So, it was more than just trusting Brandi when she declared that Lisa was the one who wanted Brandi to bring the tabloids, Kyle didn't have 100% trust in Lisa at that point because Lisa wasn't being a good friend to say what she said at Carlton's.  Add to that Lisa's comment that Kyle and Mauricio were only being friends with them to get the listing for their house.  Lisa did eventually apologized for that but it is something that's going to be something you don't forget.

[WireWrap]

For me this is one of the best examples of the way that Lisa sways in the wind of public opinion, which I believe was a point in AnnaL's outstanding, epic post above. 

 

Initially Lisa showed compassion for Adrienne with regard to Brandi's reveal. She was firmly on Brandi's side and reminded everyone again of how hard life was for Brandi in general, but she also said that Brandi had been wrong, and I believe said something like "her heart ached for Adrienne" in one of her TH interviews. Then she became angry at Adrienne because she thought it was wrong of a rich gal to throw her power around in such a way. 

 

Cut to the reunion. We all know that the lawsuit was a big fat lie. The public, however, had spoken. Brandi was right and Adrienne was terrible. Suddenly the compassionate Lisa of the TH interviews was gone. She threw out perhaps the most memorable line of the reunion regarding this when she said "people with secrets shouldn't come on a reality show". No animosity for Brandi in the least. No words that Brandi was wrong. No way Lisa was going to say this when folks were just waiting to throw Brandi a parade. 

 

I will always believe that Lisa knew early on that the lawsuit was a lie. I cannot believe that she never asked to see the letter, especially when Lisa was the one during the whole Taylor/Camille legal rumbling who told Ken that if Russell was threatening to sue Camille over things she had repeated, who knew if Lisa and Ken might be next?  More than that however was the fact that Lisa didn't appear to be upset with Brandi about the lie. Out of everyone involved, Lisa was Brandi's biggest supporter, and the one most critical of Adrienne. It is impossible for me to imagine - placing myself in the same situation - that I wouldn't have been livid at a close friend who lied to me right along with everyone else, and sat by while I trashed folks who had no reason to be trashed.  Lisa is smart, and she would have recognized that Brandi had been using her because she was well-respected and a good voice to get the message out. The fact that Ken and Lisa remained steadfast in their loyalty to Brandi during this process and afterwards, has always made me think that they knew something much earlier than the rest of us did. 

1 of Brandi' biggest complaints at the start of last season was that Lisa was distancing herself from Brandi and that it started shortly after the reunion was filmed. It is possible that Lisa learned that what Brandi was telling her the entire season, the "lawsuit" lie, was in fact a lie. If Lisa asked, which I doubt she did, Brandi could have easily said the papers were at her lawyers, which would make perfect sense to most people. Had Brandi been served with a C&D letter, she would have given it to her lawyers immediately, not kept it at home. So it is possible that Lisa did not find out Brandi's story was nothing more than some sick twisted lie until after the reunion, heck, even Kyle was distancing herself from Adrienne by the time they filmed the reunion even though she never supported Brandi's claim all season long.

[WireWrap]

Lisa didn't outright say that Mauricio cheated.  But what she did do, to quote Adrienne's comment in season 2, was 'stirred the pot'.  At the luncheon at Carlton's, it was Lisa who said where's there's smoke, there's fire.  It was Lisa who made the 'joke' in Kyle's kitchen.  So, it was more than just trusting Brandi when she declared that Lisa was the one who wanted Brandi to bring the tabloids, Kyle didn't have 100% trust in Lisa at that point because Lisa wasn't being a good friend to say what she said at Carlton's.  Add to that Lisa's comment that Kyle and Mauricio were only being friends with them to get the listing for their house.  Lisa did eventually apologized for that but it is something that's going to be something you don't forget.

Kyle did not hear Lisa make that comment about Mauricio/RE or her conversation with Ken until after filming was done and the show was aired. LOL When Lisa made the comment at Carlton's house, she finished it up by saying that she did not believe he cheated on Kyle. What more did Kyle want Lisa to do, prostrate herself at Kyle's feet, take an add out in the tabloid refuting the rumor, what could she have done to back Kyle up? And the comment Lisa made in Kyle's kitchen did not mention the word "cheating" at any time, she never said it. So really until the reunion, Kyle had no reason to doubt Lisa other than Brandi, a person she did not like nor trust at all according to her own words. While we see/hear HW A do/say something about HW B, HW B does not see/hear it until right before we do when they get their DVD a few days before it is aired. LOL AND they ALL stir the pot, it is what they get paid to do. LOL

Edited November 21, 2014 by WireWrap

[jaync]

I have to echo how great Kyle looked at the party. Her best ever, that I can recall.

 

Two "kings" on one show? Eh, LVP is still Queen.

 

Mauricio always seems so happy to see Camille. Wonder if he ever imagines her in a cop uniform?

 

All that fuss about GiGi going to college, and she dropped out to model full-time? Also, why would someone put so much time and effort into making a house their "dream home", and take so much pride in it, but then put it up for sale?

 

Adrienne still creeps me out.

 

Brandi's whining...Make.It.Fucking.Stop.

 

If the drama ain't flowing enough for Kyle's taste, then she'll bring up MagazineGate. I give her six episodes.

[KFC]

I don't particularly care for Camille, even after her PR move of seeming not like an ass. I agree with you that the very public divorce and the fact that Kelsey was parading around his mistress/girlfriend softened up Camille a bit, but there still lurks a nasty side. When she was dating the Greek guy, who was going through some sort of custodt issue with the mother of his son, audio leaked of Camille on the phone with the woman. I guess the woman said that she'd take her story to the tabloids, and Camille's response was about how she'd "desecrate" the woman if she did so. 

 

Yeah, I've never believed Camille's post-S1 turnaround at all. I don't hate her, but I find her just as untrustworthy as S1 and even more phony than before. Now she's just more censored and less entertaining.

 

I suspect S1 is closer to a representation of how she is in real life (albeit exaggerated with the heavy hand of editing and her playing up certain aspects of her gilded life in a misguided attempt to portray herself in a certain light), as opposed to the sanitized, "I don't pick sides!" Camille that we've gotten since then. I mean, hiring a PR bigwig like Howard Bragman isn't exactly going to convince me that you're actually a changed person, if anything it shows me you're just as calculating as I first suspected.

[MatildaMoody]

My Camille love doesn't come from her turnaround or anything PR related. My love of Camille was established the day she first uttered the words "The Morally Corrupt Faye Resnick."  Call me easy, but that really is all it took to secure my love forever.

[AnnaL]

1 of Brandi' biggest complaints at the start of last season was that Lisa was distancing herself from Brandi and that it started shortly after the reunion was filmed. It is possible that Lisa learned that what Brandi was telling her the entire season, the "lawsuit" lie, was in fact a lie. If Lisa asked, which I doubt she did, Brandi could have easily said the papers were at her lawyers, which would make perfect sense to most people. Had Brandi been served with a C&D letter, she would have given it to her lawyers immediately, not kept it at home. So it is possible that Lisa did not find out Brandi's story was nothing more than some sick twisted lie until after the reunion, heck, even Kyle was distancing herself from Adrienne by the time they filmed the reunion even though she never supported Brandi's claim all season long.

 

Nope , don't believe it for a second.

 

Lisa said at the reunion that Adrienne shouldn't come to a reality TV show if she had secrets, not one word was said by Lisa about the fake lawsuit. Furthermore, after the reunion there are plenty of times off camera when Lisa and Brandi were together, Brandi was one of the few HW who was invited to events that happened at SUR when they were not filming, there is plenty of photographic evidence about it, Brandi herself has said that Lisa and her spoke for one hour every morning until shortly before the trip to Puerto Rico which was almost at the end of the season.

 

IMO the reason why Lisa started to distant herself from Brandi had nothing to do with Adirenne or the outrage she felt when she found out that Brandi had made a whole fake lawsuit, Lisa is not the naive kind, she is also a busybody so knowing Lisa the first thing that comes to my mind if that Lisa asked first hand to Brandi to see the letter, even if she didn't know since the beginning, she surely had to have an incline when Camille brought it up at that trip. Camille did't stutter when she said to Brandi that the lawsuit/letter was not against her but the letter was against a previous associate of Adrienne, Lisa was right there at the table with them, surely Lisa would have asked Brandi, "What is Camille talking about? who is this person she says is being sued? I thought it was you, could you please show me the letter?"

 

Lisa is not an ignorant person and has lawyers at her beck and call, she could have easily ask one of them to look up if there was a lawsuit as there is also a matter of public record, there was nothing regarding a lawsuit against Brandi, Lisa's attitude with Adrienne at the reunion was not of that person who is sorry this ever happen or that she was misled by a nasty person , IIRC when Lisa was in the position to choose who her real friends were at the end of the reunion she chose Brandi on top of anybody else, the reunion lasted 9 hours , Lisa had nine hours to digest the magnitud of the lie. If a friend of mine would have willingly deceived me and made me look like a fool by making up a lawsuit to justify outting a surrogacy I would be livid, I would demand an explanation. I would have used the platform of the reunion to clarify that I was deceived and in good faith defended a person who had ended up being a liar. There was absolutely no outrage when Lisa chose Brandi as her best friend after nine hours of filming.

 

IMO the reason why Lisa started to distance herself from Brandi (remember the season started and they were still besties, Lisa was still firmly by Brandi's side during the trip to Palm Springs which happened in June, dinner at the Fosters, still best friends, ) is due to the tampon string incident. The backlash against Brandi was so strong that I believe Lisa strategically began to distance herself from Brandi because all Lisa cares is her image and how she is perceived by the viewers. Brandi was being critisized right and left after that and Lisa saw the writing in the wall.  

 

There is one thing that I will always remember and that is when Kyle told Lisa to her face that having her as a friend is like playing chess with Bobby Fisher, IMO truer words have never been spoken in these franchises. Lisa is very smart in her manipulative games and she is also lucky that her other castmembers are on the slow side, she wouldn't have been able to get away with her antics in Atlanta or NY. Lisa is the queen of mind games and manipulations and that is fine, embrace it, stop acting as if you are a wounded dove when one of your srategies backfired on you, that is all I am saying.

[zoeysmom]

One of things that didn't make it to air last season was Lisa went to Kathy Hilton complaining about Kyle and demanding Kyle defend or support her.  Lisa was very angry over the media calling her, Brandi and Yolanda bullies over bringing up the Mauricio rumors on camera at Carlton's. Kyle was very upset over that move by Lisa, it is one thing to talk to  other cast members about show issues and entirely another to bring family into the fray.  Lisa also said on camera that Kyle had no friends.  That is just not something that is true but once said is hard to refute.  My guess is Kathy Hilton refused to discuss it on camera as she severely limits herself to gratis on camera exposure.

 

Kyle was supportive of Adrienne and Paul because  there are just areas you don't go into.  Brandi has the show and anything she can snag as a result of it for the Nassif/Maloof they had careers and business interests that didn't need to take any hits from Lisa or Brandi.  The fact that ultimately Brandi admitted that Lisa could get her worked up over another RH just went to the essence of why some people found Lisa manipulative.  I do think a large part of Yolanda's unhappiness had to do with Lisa not filming her naturalization scenes or the silly painting party.

 

The reason there is essentially a stalemate between Lisa and Kyle and the tabloids is Kyle had the story confirmed by production and knowing how the show works-production won't break a tie.  It is up to the viewers to decide who to believe. http://allthingsrh.com/brandi-glanville-says-producers-saw-lisa-put-tabloids-suitcase/  I don't usually believe Brandi but if production confirmed it to Kyle I could see why Kyle wanted an apology.  I also think the whole thing was brought up in Puerto Rico for the sole reason that Brandi didn't have any air worthy  grievances with Lisa other than Scheana and I don't think anyone other than Yolanda was all that upset because they were aware if the production's desire for the cross-over.  Once again it was dim Kim who brought it to a head and dim Kim who ran Ken and Lisa off at dinner in her desperate attempt to try and ramp up sympathy  for herself by mentioning once again that Lisa and Ken had not attended the frigging graduation party.  Had there been a reasonable chance for discussion sans Kim there would have probably been a different result.

Edited November 21, 2014 by zoeysmom

[quinn]

1 of Brandi' biggest complaints at the start of last season was that Lisa was distancing herself from Brandi and that it started shortly after the reunion was filmed. It is possible that Lisa learned that what Brandi was telling her the entire season, the "lawsuit" lie, was in fact a lie. If Lisa asked, which I doubt she did, Brandi could have easily said the papers were at her lawyers, which would make perfect sense to most people. Had Brandi been served with a C&D letter, she would have given it to her lawyers immediately, not kept it at home. So it is possible that Lisa did not find out Brandi's story was nothing more than some sick twisted lie until after the reunion, heck, even Kyle was distancing herself from Adrienne by the time they filmed the reunion even though she never supported Brandi's claim all season long.

Brandi did not start complaining about Lisa distancing herself until much later in the season, at the beginning of the season Brandi complaint about Lisa was the opposite which was that Lisa was mothering her.

 

I guess I will have to take your word because I refuse to follow that site and they said I reached my limit for visiting this month, I looked a 2 other stories there, so it will not let me view the video! LOL

Link to season 4 trailer, at 0:55

Edited November 21, 2014 by quinn

[copacabana]

Wow!  The depth of research and analysis here is pretty great.  Makes it hard to get other things done for sure. 

 

Camille I like to see prosper and survive because she so reminds me of Jackie Collins' potboiler "Hollywood Wives."  In Camille's case, so far she is doing just fine -- wish fulfillment too for anyone trapped in a lousy marriage with children, regardless of wealth. And I like her offbeat looks.  She's done a lot with what she's got going on.  Her delicious craziness and various malapropisms in Season One helped cement the show.  I don't even mind her calling out Kelsey on WWHL, even though it is bad form.  It gets filed under Good to Know. 

 

It's ironic too because among other ladies whose looks Lisa V has been inspired by is none other than Jackie Collins in the 80s.

 

Most all these women have been witchy and nasty to one another.  I always say:  more time looking at food and the city involved for sure but no one ever ever listens to me.  I feel sorry for exactly none of them and the first one to say that she can't be bothered with apologies and explanations at this point gets my vote. I want to know what they look like in pajamas and what they had for breakfast lunch and dinner.  And what any vacation houses may look like. 

[breezy424]

Kyle did not hear Lisa make that comment about Mauricio/RE or her conversation with Ken until after filming was done and the show was aired. LOL When Lisa made the comment at Carlton's house, she finished it up by saying that she did not believe he cheated on Kyle. What more did Kyle want Lisa to do, prostrate herself at Kyle's feet, take an add out in the tabloid refuting the rumor, what could she have done to back Kyle up? And the comment Lisa made in Kyle's kitchen did not mention the word "cheating" at any time, she never said it. So really until the reunion, Kyle had no reason to doubt Lisa other than Brandi, a person she did not like nor trust at all according to her own words. While we see/hear HW A do/say something about HW B, HW B does not see/hear it until right before we do when they get their DVD a few days before it is aired. LOL AND they ALL stir the pot, it is what they get paid to do. LOL

 

I know that the Ken/Lisa conversation wasn't heard until the show aired.  As I said, it was the other things that Lisa said about Mauricio regarding the selling of their house.  At the season three reunion, Lisa said that Mauricio and Kyle dropped Ken and Lisa after Mauricio got the listing for their house and implied that their friendship was based on getting real estate listings.  Lisa also said at that reunion that the only reason they were friends with Adrienne was to get the listing on their house.

 

The problem with Lisa saying after she stated where there's smoke there's fire that she didn't believe it, is that she puts it out there.  She stirs the pot.  That's not being a friend.  Lisa is very calculating.

 

Kyle's blog at the end of the reunion:

 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/season-4/blogs/kyle-richards/kyle-its-still-out-there

[copacabana]

My problem with all the pearl clutching about Mo cottoning to the Maloofs because he was interested in selling their house is that, while obviously super bitchy, it is EXACTLY the kind of thing any of these wenches, including Kyle, should understand and basically support -- Because, darling, this is Beverly Hills (tm Ken Party Man).  What is the big problem?  These folks are all about securing the wealth, making it in the biz, whatever that biz happens to be, and playing the game well.  I mean, come on, look at most of these houses and lifestyles. Kim and Brandi are on the fringes -- the rest of these folks are where they are by virtue of the fact that they are good at playing the game and bending the rules and no doubt drinking the blood of the innocents.

 

If Kyle weren't such a perpetual complainer, she'd have laughed it off on camera and commended Mauricio for his commitment to the profession to the exclusion of ALL else--and pointed out that Mo isn't interested in taking sides because of course in Bravoland acting like an idiot who can't secure her own best interests seems to be confined to the womenfolk.  That's the Bravo expectation -- men, we are told, largely exist on a higher plane.  Unless they are the men we love to hate or hate to hate and we all know who they are. 

 

Many moons ago, Kyle shoud have found a way to point out, with sweet nastiness, that Lisa V has pimped herself out a thousand times over to promote her crappy restaurants with their tacky and generic, sexy decor and that the proof of that is you know what, airing on the same channel on another date and time. I do believe that the reason Kyle hasn't found her way to this obvious rebuttal is because she was told by her masters not to.  

 

Kyle has little wit and resents Lisa for having more than most--or at least that's the script.  It doesn't make either of them right or wrong and certainly doesn't make them monsters.  I'd actually rather live in Kyle's house than Lisa's.  I'd rather have Lisa's wit (grammatical errors aside) than Kyle's hair.  It's just the ways of Babylon they're fussing over.  

 

I also think it miffs VanderPump that while she's been the Queen Bee in every other single respect, Kyle's husband has been considered Mr. Sexy.  I also got the distinct vibe from Lisa V that she would gladly hop into bed with Harry Hamlin.  Can't blame her for that. 

[CatMomma]

 

Unfortunately, some people don't age well due to many factors. I think Ken and Lisa look far older than they really are. That is not a good thing at all.

 

The thing is, I think Lisa has aged well. I remember seeing her in rehearsals for DWTS. She was wearing very little makeup and dressed to work out.  She looked absolutely gorgeous and youthful.  It's her clothing choices and the pounds of makeup that she wears that ages her.  If she would tone down the makeup, get a new hairstyle and not dress like a soap opera diva from the 80's she would shave about 10 years off of her age.

 

I feel the same way about Kyle.  She is actually very slim and tiny, but she insists on wearing clothes that don't fit her properly, so she ends up looking chubby.  She seems to be dressing a bit better, so hopefully she has learned to wear better fitting clothes.

[CatMomma]

Oy vey.  Kyle and Kim mocked Lisa's fainting and health problems.  Kyle said that Lisa preys on the weak.  She said absolutely nothing when Adrienne made the tabloid accusations.  She never apologized for any of these statements.  Not once.  I never really saw her acknowledge that the things she said were hurtful. In season 3, Lisa tried to explain to Kyle why she was hurt.  Rather than acknowledging Lisa's feelings, she went on about how she felt at the time. 

 

Lisa apologized for the statements she made about Mauricio. Tit for tat can be argued ad nauseam.  This is why Lisa said they just need to move on and start over.  They can continue to demand apologies for every hurtful thing each has done to the other or just move forward.  But, Kyle still felt the need to whine about the fact that Lisa can't admit fault.  She can't seem to accept that she has done things to hurt Lisa as well.  

 

Lisa seems to understand that neither of them will be able to give the other what they want, so it's time to just move on.  Unfortunately, Kyle can't seem to let it go.

At this point, I'm just over the "Lisa can't admit fault" storyline these women seem obsessed with at the moment.  

[Mozelle]

Oy vey.  Kyle and Kim mocked Lisa's fainting and health problems.  Kyle said that Lisa preys on the weak.  She said absolutely nothing when Adrienne made the tabloid accusations.  She never apologized for any of these statements.  Not once.  I never really saw her acknowledge that the things she said were hurtful. In season 3, Lisa tried to explain to Kyle why she was hurt.  Rather than acknowledging Lisa's feelings, she went on about how she felt at the time. 

 

This completely overlooks what happened between Kyle and Lisa as season two aired and before they started filming the reunion for that season. I really think that a lot of the hurt (on Kyle's end) stems from that--from Lisa's bending in the wind to fan reaction about Game Night to whatever it was that happened between the ladies that caused Kyle not to refute Adrienne's claims about the tabloids at the season two reunion. By the time that reunion was taped and aired, a change had occured in Kyle's and Lisa's friendship. That leads to Kyle's poor choice of words with Taylor about Lisa maybe preying on the weak, for example. 

 

My problem with all the pearl clutching about Mo cottoning to the Maloofs because he was interested in selling their house is that, while obviously super bitchy, it is EXACTLY the kind of thing any of these wenches, including Kyle, should understand and basically support -- Because, darling, this is Beverly Hills (tm Ken Party Man).  What is the big problem?  

 

I mean, I don't know. How well would someone really take to being called a user or having it implied that a friendship wasn't genuine?; that a relationship was cultivated based solely on what party X could get from party Y? I really don't see too many people being all, "Yeah, I was only your friend for your connections. What's the big deal?" Like, that seems so over-the-top, bad movie villain-y/scheming as to be unreal. 

Edited November 21, 2014 by Mozelle

[copacabana]

I'd like to know what David Foster and Ken and the other HoMen like for lunch when they are not filming and whether or not they eat at home and who presents and supervises their menus.  The David and Yolanda thing amuses me to no end.  Does she call him for lunch in the kitchen or bring him a tray?  Does she bring it herself or does the maid?  Same for Ken.  But David even more so because he comes across, bless, as that guy who never really stops working.  Good for him.  I think that Yolanda expects SO damn much from her girlfriends because she's learned to live as an afterthought to his activities and career.  She has my sympathies there.  I'm still hoping to see her out and about more now that she's feeling better.  She's the long, tall blonde of secret low self-esteem, I suspect. 

 

The other great series that Bravo will alas never get to would be the Real Servants of Beverly Hills.  How great would it be see where these people live, who their children are, where they came from and what they want out of life -- and to hear them talk about what their daily work lives are like.  

 

A girl can dream -- I'd love to know.  I'd also love to have all the HW rooms bugged to hear about what they really think is going on in this country.  That would be gold right there. 

 

The show could tweak itself in any number of new and rresher ways.  I wish it would. 

[CatMomma]

 

This completely overlooks what happened between Kyle and Lisa as season two aired and before they started filming the reunion for that season. I really think that a lot of the hurt (on Kyle's end) stems from that--from Lisa's bending in the wind to fan reaction about Game Night to whatever it was that happened between the ladies that caused Kyle not to refute Adrienne's claims about the tabloids at the season two reunion. By the time that reunion was taped and aired, a change had occured in Kyle's and Lisa's friendship. That leads to Kyle's poor choice of words with Taylor about Lisa maybe preying on the weak, for example.

 

That isn't what happened.  Kyle said Lisa preys on the weak the same season as Game Night, so it was said long before fan reaction to game night. In addition, Lisa became close to Brandi during the Hawaii trip, so this also happened before Lisa knew what the fan reaction would be to game night. In fact, Lisa had not yet seen the game night fiasco during the time of filming.

 

Season 2 was game night, Lisa preys on the weak, the ambush of Lisa at her tea party, and the beginning of Lisa's friendship with Brandi.  This all happened long before fans had seen the show.

 

ETA: Kyle said that Lisa preys on the weak even before she became close with Brandi.  It was said early in the season.

Edited November 21, 2014 by CatMomma

[Trooper York]

I have actually met Kyle in person in Atlantic City and she is tiny and very thin. TV puts a lot of pounds on you so she looks thicker than most when in fact she is quite petite. Just sayn'

[FozzyBear]

I have actually met Kyle in person in Atlantic City and she is tiny and very thin. TV puts a lot of pounds on you so she looks thicker than most when in fact she is quite petite. Just sayn'

She doesn't look heavy. She never did. She just dresses badly and won't shut up about how a size 4 is Beverly Hills fat.

[copacabana]

Kyle only flat out said that Lisa preys on the weak because the other, more common and kinder expression is something that escaped her.  She was trying to console what's her name, Oklahoma, and it came out wrong.  Both Richards sisters were used and abused by that horrid mother of theirs to such an extent that they are barely educated and have little access to even most basic expressions.  Having to laugh at myself because in my dotage I can't recall what the phrase is.  Someone will.  It's the thing she should have said. 

 

Kyle's the representative, we're meant to be told, for all the good American suburban housewives out there.  Okay.  

 

By the time all this pans out and is mercifully over, the Umanskys, I predict, will be at the top of the money heap, due to his efforts and career and her ability to do what she does.  

[CatMomma]

 

Kyle only flat out said that Lisa preys on the weak because the other, more common and kinder expression is something that escaped her

I dunno. Deflects uncomfortable situations with humor? I just remember hearing it and thinking, "Wow. That was pretty harsh."

 

I don't know what I kinder phrase would be in that situation.

[WireWrap]

Brandi did not start complaining about Lisa distancing herself until much later in the season, at the beginning of the season Brandi complaint about Lisa was the opposite which was that Lisa was mothering her.

 

Link to season 4 trailer, at 0:55

LOL, That was NOT the entire conversation but a clip/snippet of it. I still remember Yolanda starting that "quote".

[GreatKazu]

I think Lisa has aged well. I remember seeing her in rehearsals for DWTS. She was wearing very little makeup and dressed to work out.  She looked absolutely gorgeous and youthful.  It's her clothing choices and the pounds of makeup that she wears that ages her.

Precisely my point. Watching Lisa on this show, she is always wearing so much make-up, and her dresses and gowns have all those gaudy jewels on them not to mention how she looks overall in a lot of her dresses and gowns. They add years to her, which is why I posted there are factors that cause Lisa to look older than her actual age.

 

That was NOT the entire conversation but a clip/snippet of it. I still remember Yolanda starting that "quote".

Yep, that stupid website only offers you a few chances to view their site. I am not joining their VIP site for shit. Nope. Not gonna happen. 

 

You are right, as I noted that it was Yolanda who started the convo by saying, "You know, there are stories that are put out there" and Lisa jumped in to say, "What you are saying, where there is smoke, there is fire" and Yo quipped, "Exactly.

Edited November 21, 2014 by GreatKazu

[WireWrap]

I know that the Ken/Lisa conversation wasn't heard until the show aired.  As I said, it was the other things that Lisa said about Mauricio regarding the selling of their house.  At the season three reunion, Lisa said that Mauricio and Kyle dropped Ken and Lisa after Mauricio got the listing for their house and implied that their friendship was based on getting real estate listings.  Lisa also said at that reunion that the only reason they were friends with Adrienne was to get the listing on their house.

 

The problem with Lisa saying after she stated where there's smoke there's fire that she didn't believe it, is that she puts it out there.  She stirs the pot.  That's not being a friend.  Lisa is very calculating.

 

Kyle's blog at the end of the reunion:

 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/season-4/blogs/kyle-richards/kyle-its-still-out-there

They are paid to stir the pot, all of them. LOL Kyle sites 3 times Lisa's comments "offended" her and she was present for only 1 of those times and she was the 1 one that brought up the tabloid stories, not Lisa, but of course she neglects to mention this. As for the other 2 times, she relies on the word of someone that she still does not trust but I guess that is ok to do as long as it is Kyle doing it.   Lisa is no more calculating than Kyle is but I guess it ok for Kyle to do it. LOL

[jinjer]

I think production stirs the pot too and probably ran to Kyle and told her what Lisa said to Ken about "who knows what really happens."

I loved season 1 Camille for word-dropping pernicious and book dropping, "The Art of War," for her Jesus complex in Hawaii, for her 4 nannies, kissing Nick on the lips every time she saw him.  Ahh good times.

[CatMomma]

LOL, That was NOT the entire conversation but a clip/snippet of it. I still remember Yolanda starting that "quote".

Here is the entire conversation. Brandi brought up the tabloids. Lisa did say "without smoke there's fire" when Yolanda was struggling with the right term.  However, in context, Lisa was not the person alluding to the tabloid's being true. The first thing Lisa says is to ignore it and that she doesn't believe it. It was Yolanda and Brandi who hinted it may be true.

 

http://m.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/season-4/blogs/kyle-richards/brandi-can-do-no-wrong?page=0,3

 

Somehow, this became about Lisa playing puppet master to Brandi and Yolanda.  I might, MIGHT buy that she manipulated Brandi. But Yolanda?  Please.

[PhilMarlowe2]

IMO the reason why Lisa started to distant herself from Brandi had nothing to do with Adirenne or the outrage she felt when she found out that Brandi had made a whole fake lawsuit, Lisa is not the naive kind, she is also a busybody so knowing Lisa the first thing that comes to my mind if that Lisa asked first hand to Brandi to see the letter, even if she didn't know since the beginning, she surely had to have an incline when Camille brought it up at that trip. Camille did't stutter when she said to Brandi that the lawsuit/letter was not against her but the letter was against a previous associate of Adrienne, Lisa was right there at the table with them, surely Lisa would have asked Brandi, "What is Camille talking about? who is this person she says is being sued? I thought it was you, could you please show me the letter?"

 

IMO the reason why Lisa started to distance herself from Brandi (remember the season started and they were still besties, Lisa was still firmly by Brandi's side during the trip to Palm Springs which happened in June, dinner at the Fosters, still best friends, ) is due to the tampon string incident. The backlash against Brandi was so strong that I believe Lisa strategically began to distance herself from Brandi because all Lisa cares is her image and how she is perceived by the viewers. Brandi was being critisized right and left after that and Lisa saw the writing in the wall.

 

Well, I think also mileage varies on the whole lawsuit thing. Yes, Brandi was obviously being hyperbolic when she said Adrienne was suing her since there was no law suit, but I do personally believe Brandi's explanation at the reunion that the letter said something to the effect of, "If certain demands (for silence) aren't met, we will sue Geneva and Brandi." IIRC, there was talk of Maloofs demanding sit-downs and non-disclosure agreements signed and the the threat of a lawsuit if those terms weren't met. I do believe it is very possible Brandi had to spend money dealing with that. So, I do think Brandi was indeed exaggerating and being dramatic, but I personally wouldn't say she was faking the whole thing per se, and I could imagine Lisa feeling similarly as her friend. I also think Lisa probably sided with Brandi because she likewise knew/believed that Adrienne had been planting stories about Brandi being a bad mother etc prior to the third season.

 

All that said, I think Lisa distanced herself from Brandi, yes, because of the tampon incident, but also because she could see how horrible Brandi was being to Joyce. I think it was a combination of Brandi's real-time media antics and her behavior in the unfolding season. Lisa got a whiff of which way the wind was blowing (didn't Brandi say that Lisa said to her, "You're losing your audience?") and started making her preemptive chess moves. In that regard, I don't blame Brandi for being hurt and angry. But I do blame her for being so juvenile about it and trying to make it into something more with the dumb Schaena/tabloid/Calabassas thing.

Edited November 21, 2014 by PhilMarlowe2

[quinn]

That isn't what happened.  Kyle said Lisa preys on the weak the same season as Game Night, so it was said long before fan reaction to game night. In addition, Lisa became close to Brandi during the Hawaii trip, so this also happened before Lisa knew what the fan reaction would be to game night. In fact, Lisa had not yet seen the game night fiasco during the time of filming.

 

Season 2 was game night, Lisa preys on the weak, the ambush of Lisa at her tea party, and the beginning of Lisa's friendship with Brandi.  This all happened long before fans had seen the show.

 

ETA: Kyle said that Lisa preys on the weak even before she became close with Brandi.  It was said early in the season.

My theory all along was what made Lisa throw Kyle under the bus over Game Night was the one-two punch of the Game Night and Spa Day episodes airing and its fallout and then hearing Kyle make the "preys on the weak" comment. The "preys on the weak" comment aired a couple episodes after the Spa Day episode.

Lisa firmly backed Kyle and Kim during filming and started getting heat for being part of the Mean Girls group that iced out and mocked Brandi on Spa Day. When Lisa got heat on her Bravo blog, other blogs and social media, Lisa's response (via her Bravo blog) was that she backed Kyle and Kim so vigorously because Kyle misrepresented what happened on that night. Now my response to that is that Lisa had ample information to know that Brandi was not the only one who acted out that night. Kyle admitted that Kim said she does not want Brandi on her team and that when they were playing a game, Kyle said "you first," to which Brandi responded, "bring it bitch!" which totally scandalized delicate Lisa. Furthermore Adrienne had spoken to Brandi and conveyed that Brandi felt she was treated horribly, but Lisa was having none of it, Kyle was her girl at that time and therefore Kyle had her backing even though Kyle and Kim acted out that night as well.

I don't buy that Brandi and Lisa became close in Hawaii, rather that Lisa was icing Brandi out before Hawaii and when they got there she interacted with her, and yeah they did have a couple of laughs but I don't think Hawaii represented the beginning of a true friendship, rather it was the end of Lisa icing her out and accepting her as a member of the cast.

Edited November 21, 2014 by quinn

[jinjer]

Here is the entire conversation. Brandi brought up the tabloids. Lisa did say "without smoke there's fire" when Yolanda was struggling with the right term.  However, in context, Lisa was not the person alluding to the tabloid's being true. The first thing Lisa says is to ignore it and that she doesn't believe it. It was Yolanda and Brandi who hinted it may be true.

 

http://m.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/season-4/blogs/kyle-richards/brandi-can-do-no-wrong?page=0,3

 

Somehow, this became about Lisa playing puppet master to Brandi and Yolanda.  I might, MIGHT buy that she manipulated Brandi. But Yolanda?  Please.

But Yolanda has da Lyme brain.  Easily manipulated ya know?

 

All that said, I think Lisa distanced herself from Brandi, yes, because of the tampon incident, but also because she could see how horrible Brandi was being to Joyce.

ITA about the tampon incident, but Lisa was laughing about Joyce and didn't like Joyce much because I think Lisa thought Joyce was trying to make conflict over the hair incident that we never got to see.

[quinn]

LOL, That was NOT the entire conversation but a clip/snippet of it. I still remember Yolanda starting that "quote".

She did not.

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/season-4/videos/is-mauricio-faithful-to-kyle

Edited November 21, 2014 by quinn

[copacabana]

Doesn't suffer fools gladly is what I think Kyle meant to say instead of "preys on the weak."  I don't know which is worse actually and I kind of doubt that Taylor would've known what the first one means.  Whatever it is that Kyle said, I'm sure that if she'd been encouraged to do so she might have found a better way to make the point on either count. 

 

I'd love to see a showdown like at the end of Twilight Breaking Dawn Part 2 ... On one side the RHBH, past and present, and on the other all the posters of various message boards ... And, at the end, good old Alice would bring it all back to a choice and Michael Sheen would walk away back into the woods. 

 

And, PS, I don't think that LisaV suffers fools gladly and suspect she might prey on the weak.  But Kyle, bless her, is still a huge phony and I do believe that she and Mo stole old Kim's house.  I suspect that if they hadn't snatched it Kim would have lost it up her nose but Kyle is as grasping as any of them. 

[CatMomma]

 

Doesn't suffer fools gladly

That's it! Awesome.

[Almost 3000]

My Camille love doesn't come from her turnaround or anything PR related. My love of Camille was established the day she first uttered the words "The Morally Corrupt Faye Resnick."  Call me easy, but that really is all it took to secure my love forever.

but, but, but Camille can be quite per·ni·cious.

[WireWrap]

She did not.

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/season-4/videos/is-mauricio-faithful-to-kyle

Ok, she did say it but she did not say it as it were "her" opinion/feelings but that they were Yolandas. That is why I feel she was finishing up what Yolanda said. You did hear Lisa say that the cheating stories were lies right before that and Kyle pointing out that the same "cheating" rumors were written about Lisa/Ken? Then Yolanda starts in on "there has to be a little bit of truth to these stories" and then Lisa says the "where there's smoke...." in response to Yolanda but not necessarily in agreement with her. I took her, Lisa, saying that as nothing more than finishing off Yolanda's thought. It was Brandi that then used the Eddie cheating rumors turning out to be true as a "warning" to Kyle that it may be true about Mauricio. I found it odd that Brandi even thought that Kyle had not seen or did not know about the tabloid stories, "I wanted to give her a heads up about the tabloid stories", she doesn't think Kyle ever goes to the store herself?

[zoeysmom]

I dunno. Deflects uncomfortable situations with humor? I just remember hearing it and thinking, "Wow. That was pretty harsh."

 

I don't know what I kinder phrase would be in that situation.

How about with your incessant whining you leave yourself vulnerable to Lisa's humor?  Taylor had been subjected to some pretty nasty barbs, disguised as humor.  I am still waiting for an example of Lisa's self-deprecating humor.  Closest she came was her creaky beavers comment in Colorado-and that was more of a group insult than particular to Lisa.

[quinn]

Ok, she did say it but she did not say it as it were "her" opinion/feelings but that they were Yolandas. That is why I feel she was finishing up what Yolanda said. You did hear Lisa say that the cheating stories were lies right before that and Kyle pointing out that the same "cheating" rumors were written about Lisa/Ken? Then Yolanda starts in on "there has to be a little bit of truth to these stories" and then Lisa says the "where there's smoke...." in response to Yolanda but not necessarily in agreement with her. I took her, Lisa, saying that as nothing more than finishing off Yolanda's thought. It was Brandi that then used the Eddie cheating rumors turning out to be true as a "warning" to Kyle that it may be true about Mauricio. I found it odd that Brandi even thought that Kyle had not seen or did not know about the tabloid stories, "I wanted to give her a heads up about the tabloid stories", she doesn't think Kyle ever goes to the store herself?

I am responding to assertion that somewhere out there is a footage of Yolanda saying all or any part of the phrase "where there is smoke, there is fire," there is not. However when Lisa said it, Yolanda replied, "exactly." When this discussion first came up, my assertion all along was that Lisa said the entire phrase, which has been confirmed multiple times, but that there are different views as to what it signifies. Was Lisa merely helping an ESL friend complete her thought, or perhaps the Dream Team had been discussing this matter and Lisa, playing both sides, wanted to get that sentiment expressed and quickly jumped in to vocalize "the money shot."

ETA:

I found it odd that Brandi even thought that Kyle had not seen or did not know about the tabloid stories, "I wanted to give her a heads up about the tabloid stories", she doesn't think Kyle ever goes to the store herself?

According to Brandi she had gotten a heads up that another story was coming out and she brought it up at Carlton's luncheon to be a "girls girl" in case Kyle wanted to try and squash the story. Presumably this was the story that came out the day they were traveling to Palm Springs and was in the tabloid that Brandi accused Lisa of telling her to pack. Edited November 22, 2014 by quinn

[PhilMarlowe2]

I took her, Lisa, saying that as nothing more than finishing off Yolanda's thought. It was Brandi that then used the Eddie cheating rumors turning out to be true as a "warning" to Kyle that it may be true about Mauricio. I found it odd that Brandi even thought that Kyle had not seen or did not know about the tabloid stories, "I wanted to give her a heads up about the tabloid stories", she doesn't think Kyle ever goes to the store herself?

 

And after Brandi makes the comment about Eddie, Lisa is all, "Right, right" or some other term of agreement. To me, it is without question that the Dream Team brought this up to rub it in Kyle's face and Lisa masqueraded her part by simply "responding" to the others and "dismissing" it all in turn. As for Brandi's "heads up" comment, it's just more bullshit - the Dream Team wanted to look like they were being concerned/supportive when they were really just being bitchy. How Lisa escaped this season with so much viewer sympathy is truly beyond me.

[jinjer]

I am responding to assertion that somewhere out there is a footage of Yolanda saying all or any part of the phrase "where there is smoke, there is fire," there is not. However when Lisa said it, Yolanda replied, "exactly." When this discussion first came up, my assertion all along was that Lisa said the entire phrase, which has been confirmed multiple times, but that there are different views as to what it signifies. Was Lisa merely helping an ESL friend complete her thought, or perhaps the Dream Team had been discussing this matter and Lisa, playing both sides, wanted to get that sentiment expressed and quickly jumped in to vocalize "the money shot."

ETA:

According to Brandi she had gotten a heads up that another story was coming out and she brought it up at Carlton's luncheon to be a "girls girl" in case Kyle wanted to try and squash the story. Presumably this was the story that came out the day they were traveling to Palm Springs and was in the tabloid that Brandi accused Lisa of telling her to pack.

I am sure the "dream team" had a few chuckles over lunch how Kyle would just die if it ever came up on camera.  And cue Brandi once the cameras started rolling, "So Kyle what do you think about the tabloids saying Maurcio cheated?" or whatever she said.  This is what I think Brandi meant.  Lisa never told her to say anything, but I can totally see Brandi thinking she would win big brownie points with Lisa by doing shit like this.

 

As for Brandi's "heads up" comment, it's just more bullshit - the Dream Team wanted to look like they were being concerned/supportive when they were really just being bitchy. How Lisa escaped this season with so much viewer sympathy is truly beyond me.

I think this statement was a function of Bravo editing.  IIRC, Brandi had a friend that worked at the magazine and gave Kyle a head's up off camera/before they started shooting that the tabloid was publishing the story.  I think that statement was about that and Bravo put it in the show in relation to the luncheon.

Edited November 22, 2014 by jinjer

[vrocotamy]

Well, I think also mileage varies on the whole lawsuit thing. Yes, Brandi was obviously being hyperbolic when she said Adrienne was suing her since there was no law suit, but I do personally believe Brandi's explanation at the reunion that the letter said something to the effect of, "If certain demands (for silence) aren't met, we will sue Geneva and Brandi." IIRC, there was talk of Maloofs demanding sit-downs and non-disclosure agreements signed and the the threat of a lawsuit if those terms weren't met. I do believe it is very possible Brandi had to spend money dealing with that. So, I do think Brandi was indeed exaggerating and being dramatic, but I personally wouldn't say she was faking the whole thing per se, and I could imagine Lisa feeling similarly as her friend. I also think Lisa probably sided with Brandi because she likewise knew/believed that Adrienne had been planting stories about Brandi being a bad mother etc prior to the third season.

 

All that said, I think Lisa distanced herself from Brandi, yes, because of the tampon incident, but also because she could see how horrible Brandi was being to Joyce. I think it was a combination of Brandi's real-time media antics and her behavior in the unfolding season. Lisa got a whiff of which way the wind was blowing (didn't Brandi say that Lisa said to her, "You're losing your audience?") and started making her preemptive chess moves. In that regard, I don't blame Brandi for being hurt and angry. But I do blame her for being so juvenile about it and trying to make it into something more with the dumb Schaena/tabloid/Calabassas thing.

 

ITA. This post is perfect. I don't think the "lawsuit" story was fabricated out of thin air. There was probably the threat of a lawsuit if terms weren't met (and I would have probably threatened to sue Brandi too in Adrienne's situation, if I had Adrienne's resources.) However, there's a big jump on Brandi's part from "Adrienne threatened to sue me" to "Adrienne's suing me." A lot of what Brandi says is "truthy", it isn't the truth. She's the Fox News of RHOBH (apologies if that's too political.) Brandi's "truth cannon" moments are based on fragments of true events, which are then magnified and distorted to serve Brandi's (and production's) purposes. Her personality off-show is too continuous with her personality on-camera - and she's not smart enough - for me not to believe she's actually like this.

 

Adrienne and Lisa had an enmity/rivalry from the get-go, magnified in Season 2 when Lisa, in Adrienne's view, stole camera time (and money) from the Palms by holding Pandy's bachelorette party at the Hard Rock, its rival casino. Brandi had developed a fan-base and became both useful to Lisa's larger strategies on the show, in terms of developing her own fan-base and her ancillary projects. In addition, helping Brandi paint herself as Adrienne's victim was a way for Lisa to get back at Adrienne. Lisa distanced herself Brandi when she was "losing her audience" after the tampon incident and her bullying of Joyce.

 

I don't mean any of this to say Lisa is some sort of Svengali with magical powers of manipulation, like Brandi now likes to claim. I do think she is smarter and plays the Housewife game better than others, as most do. Most of the threads recently have ended up turning into discussions about Lisa; in short, whether or not she really is as fake/manipulative/disingenuous as the other women claim or the other women are just jealous of her success and fan favorite status. I think elements of both are present in the other HWs' resentment of Lisa. The emotion displayed on RHOBH is often real, I think, but the reasons behind it are not the reasons we're given. The real reasons would break the fourth wall. In particular with Yolanda, as zoeysmom said, attributions of stolen camera time are behind her admonitions (remember her inexplicable ire at Kim not doing the master cleanse with her in Season 3?)

 

I also don't think the other women - in particular Kyle and Kim, both actors - are as dumb or devoid of strategic ambitions as they're often presumed to be. They're just not as good as Lisa at making production's needs meet theirs. In other words, they're not as good at advancing their own interests - whether those are professional, in their on and off screen relationships with other cast members, or in cultivating a fan-base - while keeping production happy. They do, however, have strategies.

 

Kim's "truth cannon" moments - telling Paul and Adrienne about Brandi's surrogacy-reveal and helping to blow up Kyle's anger over Tabloid-gate in Puerto Rico, or even her unwarranted anger at Ken and Lisa for not attending her daughter's graduation party - are probably performances of direct instructions from production. She's drawing on actual emotion: she wanted to get back at Brandi  and she never liked Lisa or Ken much (and probably didn't appreciate the notion that Lisa was trying to humiliate Kyle; the sisters don't like it when outsiders try to humiliate them, even if they can do it to each other.) I also think a lot of the convincingly "wacky" Kim in Season 4 is good acting on top of lots of pills. It's a production-and-Kim creation. The "real Kim" is probably most similar to the quasi-functional alcoholic, intermittently charming nervous wreck of Season 1, before she became a walking medicine cabinet with a script.

Edited November 22, 2014 by vrocotamy

[WireWrap]

I am responding to assertion that somewhere out there is a footage of Yolanda saying all or any part of the phrase "where there is smoke, there is fire," there is not. However when Lisa said it, Yolanda replied, "exactly." When this discussion first came up, my assertion all along was that Lisa said the entire phrase, which has been confirmed multiple times, but that there are different views as to what it signifies. Was Lisa merely helping an ESL friend complete her thought, or perhaps the Dream Team had been discussing this matter and Lisa, playing both sides, wanted to get that sentiment expressed and quickly jumped in to vocalize "the money shot."

ETA:

According to Brandi she had gotten a heads up that another story was coming out and she brought it up at Carlton's luncheon to be a "girls girl" in case Kyle wanted to try and squash the story. Presumably this was the story that came out the day they were traveling to Palm Springs and was in the tabloid that Brandi accused Lisa of telling her to pack.

Didn't she get that info, about another story, from her friend that works at the tabloid? But it is/was all Lisa's fault! LOL Again, I do not think Lisa is innocent, she plays the HW game very, very well but she is no Svengali either. Brandi did what she wanted to do because she needs a storyline each season and uses the other women as her storyline and then turns on the HW that helped her the following season. Brandi and Kyle are already snarking about each other after only 1 episode. Brandi repeating her MO with another HW that believed her BS!

[Mozelle]

Thanks, jinjer and Cat Momma, on the season two "preys on the weak" drama. I thought it happened during season three.

Regarding the Palm Spring house business, I don't believe that Kim was duped out of it by Kyle and/or Mauricio unless I'm willing to believe that they also managed to dupe Kathy, a 1/3 owner of the house, as well.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Mozelle

[WireWrap]

And after Brandi makes the comment about Eddie, Lisa is all, "Right, right" or some other term of agreement. To me, it is without question that the Dream Team brought this up to rub it in Kyle's face and Lisa masqueraded her part by simply "responding" to the others and "dismissing" it all in turn. As for Brandi's "heads up" comment, it's just more bullshit - the Dream Team wanted to look like they were being concerned/supportive when they were really just being bitchy. How Lisa escaped this season with so much viewer sympathy is truly beyond me.

It could be easily seen as Lisa agreeing to Brandi's story about herself, not to the stories about Kyle. It plays both ways IMO. I just don't see Lisa and Yolanda conspiring to go after Kyle, I just don't see that happening especially since they all ended up going after Lisa. It could be said just as easily that Kyle set this all up with the others to teach Lisa a lesson and to bring her down a peg or 2 or 3. LOL

[FozzyBear]

Thanks, jinjer and Cat Momma on the season two "preys on the weak" drama. I thought it happened during season three.

Regarding the Palm Spring house business, I don't believe that Kim was duped out of it by Kyle and/or Mauricio unless I'm willing to believe that they also managed to dupe Kathy , a 1/3 owner of the house, as well.

I think the 3 girls inherited the house equally. Kathy may not have had an interest in having a vacation home in PS and sold her share to Kyle and Kim or gave it in exchange for a larger part of something else in the estate. So Kyle and Kim owned the house and at some point Kim needed money and was looking at the PS house for any equity she could get out of it and decided to pull on her part of it. Kyle and Mauricio say ok. Then all hell breaks loose over what that means with Kim saying she borrowed against her share of the house and Kyle and Mauricio says she sold them her share of the house. That's my guess anyway.

[zoeysmom]

I think the 3 girls inherited the house equally. Kathy may not have had an interest in having a vacation home in PS and sold her share to Kyle and Kim or gave it in exchange for a larger part of something else in the estate. So Kyle and Kim owned the house and at some point Kim needed money and was looking at the PS house for any equity she could get out of it and decided to pull on her part of it. Kyle and Mauricio say ok. Then all hell breaks loose over what that means with Kim saying she borrowed against her share of the house and Kyle and Mauricio says she sold them her share of the house. That's my guess anyway.

Here is the explanation.  Kim of course gives none because she would be robbed of victimhood.  http://stoopidhousewives.com/2013/12/06/from-the-sh-archives-october-2011-kim-richards-you-stole-my-house-explained-directly-by-kim-and-kyle-Richards/  Big Kathy owned three houses in the same development-these were not Bob Hope size estates just regular old family homes.  When Kim approached Kyle and Mauricio with the $20,000.00, she claimed she wanted to be a partner-which was kind of lame as she and her adult child were allowed to use the home at any time, at no cost and were not exactly good houseguests leaving the place dirty.  Mauricio and Kyle did not want to partner up with Kim, who at the time was moving from place to place and Mauricio and Kyle, as well as Rick and Kathy were having to support Kim.  I think it just part of the entitled drug and alcohol haze Kim lives in.  One thing is for certain Kim alienated Mauricio for a very long time with her baseless accusations.

 

I don't know if Kyle and Mauricio still own the Big Kathy property but this past year they bought quite a nice spread in La Quinta.  http://www.zillow.com/blog/kyle-richards-buys-golf-retreat-154868/  With six bedrooms there is always room for Kim.  Something tells me Kingsley is off the guest list.

 

 

ITA. This post is perfect. I don't think the "lawsuit" story was fabricated out of thin air. There was probably the threat of a lawsuit if terms weren't met (and I would have probably threatened to sue Brandi too in Adrienne's situation, if I had Adrienne's resources.) However, there's a big jump on Brandi's part from "Adrienne threatened to sue me" to "Adrienne's suing me." A lot of what Brandi says is "truthy", it isn't the truth. She's the Fox News of RHOBH (apologies if that's too political.) Brandi's "truth cannon" moments are based on fragments of true events, which are then magnified and distorted to serve Brandi's (and production's) purposes. Her personality off-show is too continuous with her personality on-camera - and she's not smart enough - for me not to believe she's actually like this.

 

Adrienne and Lisa had an enmity/rivalry from the get-go, magnified in Season 2 when Lisa, in Adrienne's view, stole camera time (and money) from the Palms by holding Pandy's bachelorette party at the Hard Rock, its rival casino. Brandi had developed a fan-base and became both useful to Lisa's larger strategies on the show, in terms of developing her own fan-base and her ancillary projects. In addition, helping Brandi paint herself as Adrienne's victim was a way for Lisa to get back at Adrienne. Lisa distanced herself Brandi when she was "losing her audience" after the tampon incident and her bullying of Joyce.

 

I don't mean any of this to say Lisa is some sort of Svengali with magical powers of manipulation, like Brandi now likes to claim. I do think she is smarter and plays the Housewife game better than others, as most do. Most of the threads recently have ended up turning into discussions about Lisa; in short, whether or not she really is as fake/manipulative/disingenuous as the other women claim or the other women are just jealous of her success and fan favorite status. I think elements of both are present in the other HWs' resentment of Lisa. The emotion displayed on RHOBH is often real, I think, but the reasons behind it are not the reasons we're given. The real reasons would break the fourth wall. In particular with Yolanda, as zoeysmom said, attributions of stolen camera time are behind her admonitions (remember her inexplicable ire at Kim not doing the master cleanse with her in Season 3?)

 

I also don't think the other women - in particular Kyle and Kim, both actors - are as dumb or devoid of strategy as they're presumed to be. They're just not as good as Lisa at making production's needs meet theirs, in terms of public perception. Kim's "truth cannon" moments - telling Paul and Adrienne about Brandi's surrogacy-reveal in Season 3 and helping to blow up Kyle's anger over Tabloid-gate in Season 4 in Puerto Rico, or even her unwarranted anger at Ken and Lisa for not attending her daughter's graduation party - are probably acting out instructions from production. She's drawing on actual emotion: she wanted to get back at Brandi in Season 3 and she never liked Lisa or Ken much in Season 4 (and probably didn't appreciate the idea that Lisa was trying to humiliate Kyle, even if she can speak of Kyle as she wishes.) I also think a lot of the convincingly "wacky" Kim in Season 4 is good acting on top of lots of pills. It's a production-and-Kim creation. The "real Kim" is probably most similar to the quasi-functional alcoholic, intermittently charming nervous wreck of Season 1, before she became a medicine cabinet.

 

I don't know if this would be considered manipulation but twice last season I saw Lisa try and keep an argument going.  The first occurred when Brandi stormed out of SUR after losing her battle with Michael and Joyce-Lisa seem perturbed that Yolanda "had let Brandi go".  Yolanda I think acted as a good friend but the resulting conversation afterwards made the entire table sans Joyce and Michael look like fools with all their Brandi excuses.  I kind of enjoyed Brandi having to dodge the likes of Martin and Mohamed at this year's White Party-what a difference a year makes.  The second time I saw Lisa try and keep the battling factions going was at the Mauricio/Ken birthday party, after Carlton had said she didn't care if it was Mauricio birthday and continued her verbal barrage, Lisa went after her and her husband and asked them to stay and work it out.  A third example may be in Lisa pulling Brandi aside and asking her to congratulate Scheana on her engagement.  I don't know that Lisa considers it manipulation but the continuation of either fight may have made for good TV.  Both instances are also good examples of playing the RH game and ending up looking rather ridiculous.

[ScoobieDoobs]

She doesn't look heavy. She never did. She just dresses badly and won't shut up about how a size 4 is Beverly Hills fat.

 

 

Honestly, I often got the impression Kyle was kinda chunky.  If I saw her in person & saw (as someone else described her) that she's actually quite petite & thin, I'd be surprised.  This was discussed extensively on TWoP.  She very often wore outfits which made her look sorta short-waisted & just didn't flatter her at all.  Not sure if she's choosing a much improved & more flattering wardrobe or she lost weight, but she is looking infinitely better.

 

I know this is kinda mean -- and this is merely my own observation, but in the past whenever I saw Kyle & Mo together, I always thought it was a hot man & his frumpy/dumpy wife.  Sure, she always had the great hair, but her clothes made her look like a frump.  She's lookin' much better now & they don't look like such a mismatch as a couple (to me, at least) anymore.

Edited November 22, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[ScoobieDoobs]

And Kyle, make an effort to find some great bags.  Chanel is a lazy choice.