Thunderdome: Glee fandoms

[caracas1914]

As for the comment about Chris, if this is in relation to the comments about him seeming checked out, of which I've stated, I will say that my comment is in relation to the performance Chris delivers onscreen. That's how I interpret his performance.

 

Oh I'm not talking about  that.  Evaluating any actors performance/acting is par for the course.

I'm talking about saying that because his performance in their opinion is lackluster it's  proof he's checked out and not putting out any effort.  

Edited December 27, 2014 by caracas1914

[truthaboutluv]

But hate-watching has degrees and stages, and sometimes it can be fun when people know they're watching a bad show and don't take everything seriously, including their own fascination with it. For example, I loved the Young Americans thread on TWOP.

 

 

My favorite negative TWOP thread was the General Hospital one. I barely even watched the show because I stopped watching soap operas years ago, but I used to check out the thread because I couldn't understand why it had like twice the number of pages of all the other shows. And seriously 90 percent of the comments were negative comments about the storylines, the writers, the actors and man did they hate the head writer/creator. It cracked me up because it was like every day, five days a week there they were watching and ranting about how much they hated the show. 

[fakeempress]

 

My favorite negative TWOP thread was the General Hospital one.

Now when I think of it, there were so many of these negative threads on twop (so hate-watching Glee isn't an exception at all in fandom). My favourite to just revel in the scathing comments since I never watched the shows, were Little House on the Prairie (!!) and 7th Heaven. One Smallville recapper (Omar?) was also pretty funny in his hate. 

Edited December 27, 2014 by fakeempress

[tom87]

 

I get hate-watching, and I put myself halfway into that category in that I hate what Glee's doing most of the time now, but I'll see it through the end (while complaining, lol).

But hate-watching has degrees and stages, and sometimes it can be fun when people know they're watching a bad show and don't take everything seriously, including their own fascination with it. For example, I loved the Young Americans thread on TWOP. When that show was on, I lived for the recaps and the hilarious forum comments. Incidentally, that's the first time I saw Ian Somerhalder on screen. 

Frankly the hate watchers at least those posting to forums such as this seem to take it more seriously to me than those who just go with the flow. Believe me I don't like  a lot of stuff like the entire set  up of season 6  but it is what it is.

 

And talk hyperbole the way some speak about glee you would think it is to blame for  the wars and the social injustices in the world.

 

I still find a little something in glee I enjoy be it a scene or two or a song.   I keep my expectations low so maybe I will be pleasantly surprise with a funny scene or a nice song or two.

 

At one point I loved the snarky fun of TWOP and other places but it seems little by little it was less snark and got a bit nasty.  Add the snark at sites, the blogs, the twitter comments, comment on articles etc  and it just got mean instead of funny.  IMO of course.

Edited December 28, 2014 by tom87

[caracas1914]

Definitely snark can get out of hand, however sometimes I can see it as a reaction to media sites where everything is such blatantly obsequious gushing, places such as  Broadwayworld.com.  Though the constant hate of, say ONTD_Glee, can be unrelenting on one side of the spectrum whereas the fangirling and imposed selective positivity of a place like Glee.Forum( tweeners sobbing over the magnificence of the show) is also a bit WTF.

I do think even hatewatching is a type of fandom, and Glee still pushes the button of posters who claim to be so over the show.

 

I still find a little something in glee I enjoy be it a scene or two or a song.   I keep my expectations low so maybe I will be pleasantly surprise with a funny scene or a nice song or two.

 

Not a bad instructional manual for watching Glee.

Edited December 28, 2014 by caracas1914

[truthaboutluv]

Frankly the hate watchers at least those posting to forums such as this seem to take it more seriously to me than those who just go with the flow.

 

 

Well what's the saying, the true opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. Because if you hate something, it means you're still expounding some energy on it versus simply not giving a damn at all. 

 

I keep my expectations low so maybe I will be pleasantly surprise with a funny scene or a nice song or two.

 

 

I have been doing this since S4, where I tell myself nothing they do will shock me anymore and yet, they still manage to prove me wrong. And I definitely think that's why I care enough to still get frustrated about it. Yes I've missed a bunch of episodes between S4 and S5 because I just couldn't do it but yeah I still care on some level because I'm posting here.

 

However, the issue for me is that while Glee was never perfect by any means, there was something special about it and for the last three, maybe four years, since the end of S2 going into S3, it just felt like the writers were determined to destroy what they created. And it's like on some level, I kept rooting for them, wanting things to get better or at least just a semblance of good and instead it's just more bullshit. 

Edited December 28, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Sara2009]

The posters on BroadwayWorld seem to hate everything. The reviewers are a completely different story, though.

[caracas1914]

Well yea, I meant the reviewers, I mean they gushed and rave about everything ("Piece of my heart" was practically perfection to them.

 

And it's like on some level, I kept rooting for them, wanting things to get better or at least just a semblance of good and instead it's just more bullshit.

 

   This.

 

What  I don't get  is the "well it had problems even with the praised Season 1 " of course it did, that's not the point.  There is no  denying that for  me Glee , for all it's flaws and weaknesses even in Seasons 1 ,2  and parts of 3, had some things that struck a strong  emotional chord and as a show IMO  that appealed to different folks on different levels.  Both Baby boomers and younger demographics seemed drawn to it.

 

So hope springs eternal, and I watch hoping that intermittently some of the flashes of  the unique mix /comedy/music/drama/dance  that drew me to it can be recaptured, even if fleetingly.    I don't claim it's healthy for me at this point, more like a heroin addict who vainly hopes he can recapture that initial rush/high.  LOL.

Edited December 28, 2014 by caracas1914

[Casual Viewing]

Part of me continues to hope for the return of what drew me to Glee, "that unique mix/comedy/music/drama/dance" as caracas1914 stated. The majority of me has given up and I'm just fascinated/horrified by what the writers have done to a show that had so much potential; so I continue to watch (intermittently) and read the forum daily. I wonder if I will go through Glee Forum withdrawal when the show ends?

[jaytee1812]

I was thinking about the discussion on Stans. To me there are two types, Stans who know they're Stans and people who just think they're always right. 

 

I'm a self-confessed Tina/Jenna stan, I also tend to head in that direction for Harry, Diana, Becca and Jacob. Because of that I tend to tend to ask myself when I respond to a discussion whether I'm just saying it because I like that actor/character or whether I have a point. To be fair that seems to be true of most of this forum. 

 

I can't with people who are just convinced that everyone else is wrong when they don't love their favourite the way they do.

[caracas1914]

I can't with people who are just convinced that everyone else is wrong when they don't love their favourite the way they do.

 

More than that, anymore who doesn't like their favorite is a "hater".  It's the ONLY reason for not thinking they are the bestest ever in acting,singing, dancing.

[caracas1914]

To me what is even weirder are the Ryan/Brad "stans" who think even now their  vision is sheer gold and would rather gnaw their arm off than admit that these show runners have stumbled with the show.   Some Pseudolesbian Klaine fans fall in this category, analyzing every clue to how well written Klaine has been, with psychological insights to the Brad/Ryan's astute writing.  Sometimes I wonder if they should just they list Ryan or Brad's ass  as their address since their nose is wedged up there firmly 24/7.

Edited January 2, 2015 by caracas1914

[jaytee1812]

To me what is even weirder are the Ryan/Brad "stans" who think even now their  vision is sheer gold and would rather gnaw their arm off than admit that these showrunners have stumbled with the show.   Some Pseudolesbian Klaine fans fall in this category.  Sometimes I wonder if should just they list Ryan or Brad's ass  as their address since their nose is wedged up their firmly 24/7.

 

They actually exist?! JFC. I can understand being a fan of Murphy's (sort of) he's created some great shows. But seriously who think this still a good show? Also, I've never watched American Horror Story but I've heard it get criticisms similar to Glee, just not quite as bad. 

[ComfySweater]

More than that, anymore who doesn't like their favorite is a "hater".  It's the ONLY reason for not thinking they are the bestest ever in acting,singing, dancing.

Isn't apathy always an option? I have a fave or two, but everybody else is kind of just there doing whatever it is they do. I can see the appeal here and there with others, but there's no hate. That's too strong for anybody except the writers and producers of this mess.

[camussie]

Some Pseudolesbian Klaine fans fall in this category, analyzing every clue to how well written Klaine has been, with psychological insights to the Brad/Ryan's astute writing.

 

 

There are a couple of Finn/Rachel fans who think season 2 was a well written story and overall their story was beautiful and I for the life of me can't process that POV.  I am a Finn/rachel fan and Finn stan but their story sucked in season 2 and Finn was a jackass for a lot of it.  As for season 3 I am actually not one who minded the concept of them being engaged since it was made clear at every turn that it was a huge mistake for them but I wish it had been structured better.  

 

Still i ship them, not because their story was well written nor root-worthy but rather because I felt the actors had great chemistry and on the rare moments when RM and team just let them be rather than throwing in conflict after conflict I thought the characters clicked.  To this day Barbra the Christmas pig makes me smile because I felt it showed Finn knew how to roll with Rachel's dramatics (I know some are going to say but Rachel is a vegan but really was that ever supposed to be taken seriously given that we saw her eat meat and cheese more than once.  I always thought we were supposed to take that as Rachel saying she was a vegan because she thought that is what serious artists did rather than it being a lifestyle she was devoted to).  Anyway I unabashedly ship them but I also fully realize their story was badly written.

[jaytee1812]

There are a couple of Finn/Rachel fans who think season 2 was a well written story and overall their story was beautiful and I for the life of me can't process that POV.  I am a Finn/rachel fan and Finn stan but their story sucked in season 2 and Finn was a jackass for a lot of it.  As for season 3 I am actually not one who minded the concept of them being engaged since it was made clear at every turn that it was a huge mistake for them but I wish it had been structured better.  

 

I can sort of get passed season 2, since I always thought it wasn't about Finn/Quinn liking each other it was about capturing the 'glory' of being popular. Him realising that wouldn't work and going back to Rachel worked for me, sort of. It was dreadfully written, but in the giant scheme of things it sort of worked. 

[camussie]

i think that is what they were going for and originally planned on doing that story with Finn/Santana given, to me, that is where all the anvils were but at the last minute switched it to Finn/Quinn which muddied the whole issue and made Finn look like a giant hypocritical jackass.  Like I said I am a Finn stan but I have no illusions on how badly he was written at times.

[fakeempress]

They actually exist?! JFC. I can understand being a fan of Murphy's (sort of) he's created some great shows. But seriously who think this still a good show? Also, I've never watched American Horror Story but I've heard it get criticisms similar to Glee, just not quite as bad. 

Oh, writer stans exist, and I mentioned upthread other shows where I have come across them. The writer stans see themselves as a special bunch who have deep insight into the show because they see the writers' "vision" and convince themselves the writers have a "plan". They see themselves as basically the inner circle, even when they don't know any of the writers personally - and some will make efforts to establish contact, it happened on Veronica Mars with the group around one of the biggest fansites meeting Rob Thomas and then basking in the glow of their direct email contact with the head honcho. On Glee, RIB don't oblige with this kind of contact, but others on the crew do, so we have "cameraman stans".  I've come across at least one such individual who stalks the location shoots, has talked to and tweets regularly to  our intrepid cameraman. I believe it started in search for spoilers but has evolved into stanning and a feeling that as part of the "inner circle" they have the most accurate handle on the show.

 

Even when they are truly shocked (negatively) by the genius of RIB, as with the Blainofsky twist, and even if they are about to flounce, they invariably make peace with it and start explaining it away. Some of them are the so-called meta baters, they'll meta away any inane plot twist and find 10-feet deep meaning in the most random thing. 

 

Of course, they also rant regularly against the hate-watchers.

[whyme]

The camera guy , the Klaine fans love him.  Is that person you are talking about from Gleeforum, who goes to most of the location shoots? And the camera guy asks her not to give spoilers and she won't because then he would know it was her who gave them.  Who is the camera guy going to tweet with once Glee if over?

[fakeempress]

I know mostly the writer stans on tumblr, there is such a person there so maybe is the same one. There are others who stalk the shoots but for other reasons, spoilers, seeing the actors, getting selfies, but this person is definitely one of the biggest writer stans. I wonder how they find the time, unless they are students.

 

With Glee writer stans, I feel sometimes they have invested so much into fandom and have such an emotional investment in the show that they refuse to accept the reality of what the show has become. It's like it's going to render their years of personal investment meaningless, so they rather drown with the sinking ship. 

Edited January 2, 2015 by fakeempress

[LeeLeePanda]

I wonder where I fall in Glee fandom? I still watch the show because it's still entertaining to me. I like some characters, and dislike other. I'm indifferent to most ships, though I do like Samcedes.

It's not the same show that it was in season 1, and I'm ok with that. I still think it has some humor and heart, even though the quality of the show has gone down.

I also wonder if there are other fans out there like me. It feels like to be a Glee fan you either have to love it all, love certain characters/relationships while hating the rest, or hate everything about it and watch because everyone loves a train wreck. Where are the people who watch the show, warts and all, because they actually still like Glee?

[ComfySweater]

Where are the people who watch the show, warts and all, because they actually still like Glee?

It pulled a .6 for the finale. Best of luck finding them. I'm not even hate watching. I'm just checking in for the lols every now and then. It is funny if you stopped caring ages ago and just want to see what they ruin next.

[LeeLeePanda]

It pulled a .6 for the finale. Best of luck finding them. I'm not even hate watching. I'm just checking in for the lols every now and then. It is funny if you stopped caring ages ago and just want to see what they ruin next.

I agree that the ratings are in the hole, and many people just gave up on it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I honestly think that most of the people still watching and enjoying are teens. I checked some of the comments on the Glee facebook page, and there were so many kids posting about how sad they were that Glee is ending, and how they grew up with the show. Then again, they could all be bots and fake accounts created by Fox to drum up attention. Who knows.

[ComfySweater]

 Then again, they could all be bots and fake accounts created by Fox to drum up attention. Who knows.

I doubt it. That takes money. The show is already cancelled. They're not doing much more than the minimum anymore. Fake facebook fans are for the new shows that also flopped or are about to. They'll blame everything on the fired guy anyway, but nobody's spending on a cut season of a dead show. The shareholders wouldn't understand.

[LeeLeePanda]

I doubt it. That takes money. The show is already cancelled. They're not doing much more than the minimum anymore. Fake facebook fans are for the new shows that also flopped or are about to. They'll blame everything on the fired guy anyway, but nobody's spending on a cut season of a dead show. The shareholders wouldn't understand.

Well, then I guess the people who still love Glee are teenagers...and me ;)

[fakeempress]

I don't find it a problem if you still like and enjoy Glee, especially in case of the teens who grew up with it. There are fans who do, and also the GA who watch and presumably enjoy without a deeper involvement. I think what we've been discussing here are the more extreme or idiosyncratic parts of fandom. 

[phoenixrising]

I'm in the love/hate camp.

I used to be invested in most of them, even though I had my favorites, but they've destroyed a lot of characters for me as time went on.

It also helped me get through some of my personal crap, so I love it for that, but man, most of the decisions they make are terrible.

Also, probably the most interesting thing about this forum is that people seem to like Will? I haven't really encountered that anywhere else. Certainly Matt is talented (although I struggle to see it with the awful things they make him do), and everyone has had terrible writing, but I've always found his the least redeemable.

[Sara2009]

They like Will well enough at GleeForum.

People here don't save for a few of us. I like him(or at least sympathize with him much of the time), but I'm fairly certain that I'm in the minority. A lot like Matt(or at least his work) but not Will.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Sara2009

[SevenStars]

They like Will well enough at GleeForum.

People here don't save for a few of us. I like him(or at least sympathize with him much of the time), but I'm fairly certain that I'm in the minority. A lot like Matt(or at least his work) but not Will.

 

I like Will but I don't enjoy him as a ND Director. I think he was a bad Director and was too bluntly bias. 

[Sara2009]

I like Will but I don't enjoy him as a ND Director. I think he was a bad Director and was too bluntly bias.

I can definitely understand that. I just still like him despite all of that. I think his heart is in the right place most of the time, which goes a long way for me. I'm sort of easy.

[SevenStars]

I can definitely understand that. I just still like him despite all of that. I think his heart is in the right place most of the time, which goes a long way for me. I'm sort of easy.

 

I agree with you about his heart always being in the right place, and that's the reason I continue to like him too. But I have always preferred Sue as ND Director over Will. 

[Sara2009]

I actually think the two of them as co-directors would be the best option. In season 3 Sue was overly harsh before Will reined her in.

[Myrna123]

I didn't start watching until Season 2 and Will came across as weak, incompetent and kind of pointless. But I've pretty much fast forwarded through every scene Matthew Morrison has ever been in, so I haven't seen the whole catalogue of his work.

[Sara2009]

I thought he was actually nuanced and interesting in the first half of season 1. But of course the writers ruined that.

[caracas1914]

I had issues with Will, especially after Season 1. but I bow to no one in my admiration of the skills of Matt Morrison the actor/performer.

[RealityCowgirl]

I work in a college of education, where we prepare new teachers, teacher leaders, school counselors, and school administrators. I have a pretty good sense of the overwhelming expectations placed on real-life educators and the commitments they make.

I also had both a powerful high school choir teacher, who demanded and got excellence from her students, and a mentor (HS journalism teacher) whose impact on my life is felt 40 years later.

I've always been insulted by the character of Will Schuster. A competent teacher? Puh-leeze. A role model? Pffft. That, and the cartoons made of the other adult "teacher" characters (except Beiste - so far), are some of the biggest reasons dragging this mess back to Lima will never, ever work for me.

Kids come and go. Great teachers are the missing thread in the story RM claims to cherish above all else. We've had anything but great teachers, in the choir room or anywhere else, at WMHS.

Just one of a zillion reasons that this "return to Lima" mess is a horrible, horrible mistake.

Edited January 3, 2015 by RealityCowgirl

[camussie]

I may not have always liked will but I have always said Matt Morrison was the one true triple threat in the cast.  I also say it annoys me to no end that starting with season 4 RM said he always believed the choir room was the heart of the show yet starting with season 2 he completely degraded Will's role.  If he always believed that then Will should have remained a lead.

[Sara2009]

Unfortunately, I think the writers tend to fall back on the " adults are useless" trope when it comes to the teacher characters.

[Glorfindel]

I've always been insulted by the character of Will Schuster. A competent teacher? Puh-leeze. A role model? Pffft. That, and the cartoons made of the other adult "teacher" characters (except Beiste - so far), are some of the biggest reasons dragging this mess back to Lima will never, ever work for me.

Kids come and go. Great teachers are the missing thread in the story RM claims to cherish above all else. We've had anything but great teachers, in the choir room or anywhere else, at WMHS.

As a music teacher and former choir director myself I can completely agree with this. However, I can't stop rooting for Mr. Shue, simply because I want him to be a good teacher, even though the show has made him horrible and irredeemable. Call it representation if you want.

 

I was so happy there was a show which had a music teacher/choir director as its main lead, someone like me, and the first couple of episodes I loved Will. But then he started making stupid decisions, favoring some kids while neglecting others and all the other stuff he's pulled over the years. And even in the upcoming season he's going to do something I utterly despise (

sabotaging his own choir's confidence to help Rachel boost ND's

).

So I 'hate' Will for all that (and my fave got neglected the most by him), and as a teacher myself I'm offended, but I know his heart is supposed to be in the right place and I simply wanted him to be better than he was shown just so he could be the teacher I hoped he'd be at the start (and who he was meant to be if RIB hadn't messed up so much).

 

I also fully realize that Will's actions and decissions in the choir room were made a lot worse by RIB choosing the singers for the songs, without giving one iota of thought to how those singers choices would reflect on Will's teaching and certain earlier promises he made in the choir room, not to mention how stupid some of those decisions were music technical wise, making Will look stupid too, and biased as hell, having his favorites (when it was really RIB having favorites).

I also blame RIB for being so lazy assed that they never bothered to write scenes that showed ND properly preparing for their competition performances weeks in advance (they even made meta jokes about that), which made Will look very incompetent on top of being stupid and biased.

As usual the writers never thought about the bigger picture: they simply wanted a song sung by a certain singer so they put it in the show, but they never stopped to think how this affected the other ND kids or Will in the canon. And if you purely look at that canon instead of taking these bts shenanigans into account then most of the times Will came out being the bad guy, when he never consciously 'did' anything.

 

Regardless of my feelings for Will I don't think anyone can deny that Matt Morrison is a true triple threat, very talented, and shamefully wasted on Glee. I'm really glad he's returning to Broadway after the show is over.

[fakeempress]

Can we take further comments about Will to the other thread and keep this about fandoms?

[Pink ranger]

The thing is though when the show did a storyline featuring an open competition based casting process for a show, the west side story school play, World War 3 broke out in the fandom. Characters have fans who want to see them succeed and not be told " flaws" by third parties. Kurt fans hated that he was though of as too feminine for Tony. In the real world producers make casting choices, rightly or worngly based on similariy subjective factors. That's one of the harsh and ugly sides of showbiz.

If every time a competition came up they showed the kids auditioning for the lead parts in songs and Will was shown to choose A B and C to the detriment of D E and F for whatever reason then I don't think that his popularity in parts of the fandom would have been helped either.

[Hana Chan]

The problem is that the show regularly set up these characters to be in competition with one another for leads and solos, yet it's always the same few characters getting those solos, regardless of the other storyline elements. Kurt, Mercedes and Santana were never given realistic opportunities to compete against Rachel. In fact, more often then not, they weren't allowed to. Rachel often got her solos for reasons that had little to do with her proving herself to be the most talented (like season three Nationals, when it became about giving her another bite at the NYADA apple). By not giving the other talented students even a chance to put themselves into consideration, it reflects badly on Will since he's supposed to be concerned about all his students. Not just showcasing the same one. So I find it understandable that fans of characters other than Rachel would have hard feelings about how unfairly things were handled.

 

As for the West Side Story auditions  -  Unfortunately it is something in the real world that actors who don’t fit neatly into common gender norms face every day. It’s not at all unusual for exceptionally talented performers to be passed over for less talented actors who more easily fit the image of what people assume that character would be like in the real world and Glee was right to address it.

And it wasn’t only Kurt who was affected in this storyline. Mercedes proved that she was at least as talented as Rachel and per canon, outperformed her in the Maria auditions. But just like Blaine getting the part of Tony because he looked more like what the directors thought Tony should be like, Mercedes got passed over because Rachel looked more like Maria to them. It’s a harsh reality for minority actors, that unless the part is specifically written for their race that they often lose out on parts to white actors. Lupita Nyong’o spoke about how despite winning an Academy Award that she doesn’t get the same acting opportunities that someone like Jennifer Lawrence gets.

 

Where Glee went wrong was that they brought up this unfairness but didn’t really address it or resolve it. They just let it slide once Blaine got cast and Mercedes refused sharing the part with Rachel. The unfairness was allowed to continue, and the directors were never called out on their prejudices. That Artie, a guy who was ignored as a possible soloist because he was in a wheelchair, and Beiste who was tormented over not being seen as a proper woman would mock Kurt as “too much a lady” and not be called out by anyone about it was especially distasteful for me.

[Glorfindel]

If every time a competition came up they showed the kids auditioning for the lead parts in songs and Will was shown to choose A B and C to the detriment of D E and F for whatever reason then I don't think that his popularity in parts of the fandom would have been helped either.

FWIW: I wasn't talking about how Will's decisions might upset the fandoms or not, but purely about him making promises or remarks in canon that never materialized in the solos for the competitions or other songs they did in the choir room. Like promising Mercedes a song to "dip in chocolate" but then not giving her one, or saying that Kurt could do things with his voice noone else could and praising him several times as one of the best singers of ND but never featuring him in a competition.

But that discussion indeed probably belongs in another thread.

 

Bringing it back to fandom talk :

Lbr: there will always be fans who constantly scream for their favorite to sing all the songs all the time and thinking they're better than everyone else. And I agree that having numerous auditions on the show would only stir the different fandoms each time if their fave would lose. But in the show there should also be some fairness to be considered, and Glee never did that.

Most of the auditions we actually saw on the show were very obviously skewed to make one character appear better than the other, and certain favoritism/bias and prejudices (that indeed happen in real life) were never properly addressed and/or pointed out as being wrong. Maybe this pissed off those characters' fans even more than their favorites not getting to win the audition itself.

 

Coming back to Will for a moment (but related to fandom) :

Fandom reaction is quite predictable as each fan wants their favorite to sing, so the writers can never win when it comes to that, but that has nothing to do with the writers at least trying to remember what was actually said in canon, which they themselves wrote. If fans of a character get their expectations raised about something that has promised for their character in canon and then it never materializes of course fans get pissed after a while.

For instance: the canon had Will saying multiple times that Mercedes, Kurt and Santana were just as talented as Rachel, but their talents were hardly ever acknowledged and used in ND (not untill Emma confronted Will with it, and then next competition it was back to the same solo singers again). And when RIB tried to correct that they wrote the quite unfair imo Troubletones deal (giving them a song per competition) which pissed off the fans of the other neglected singers who had stayed loyal to ND, as Rachel still was going to get her solo too so only 1 song was left for the rest of them (and that often featured Rachel as well).

 

I think that when it comes to the song distribution, in ND with mr. Shue or in the show in general, if the writers had divided the songs just a little bit better among the supporting characters (and I'm not saying that each character should have sung the same amount as e.g. a lead like Rachel, just each getting their modest but fair share of the pie every once in a while) that the majority of the seperate Glee fandoms would probably have been a lot more lenient and considerate when other characters than their fave got their turn.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Glorfindel

[ComfySweater]

I think that when it comes to the song distribution, in ND with mr. Shue or in the show in general, if the writers had divided the songs just a little bit better among the supporting characters (and I'm not saying that each character should have sung the same amount as e.g. a lead like Rachel, just each getting their modest but fair share of the pie every once in a while) that the majority of the seperate Glee fandoms would probably have been a lot more lenient and considerate when other characters than their fave got their turn.

I think that's fairly true. I never heard Quinn fans scream about song distribution the way Kurt, Puck or other fans did. She got her featured number in competition and most moved on to wondering why she was made to be insane every other episode instead of worrying about her singing opportunities. I don't think it would have taken much to make things less obviously unfair.

[SevenStars]

Where Glee went wrong was that they brought up this unfairness but didn’t really address it or resolve it. They just let it slide once Blaine got cast and Mercedes refused sharing the part with Rachel. The unfairness was allowed to continue, and the directors were never called out on their prejudices. That Artie, a guy who was ignored as a possible soloist because he was in a wheelchair, and Beiste who was tormented over not being seen as a proper woman would mock Kurt as “too much a lady” and not be called out by anyone about it was especially distasteful for me.

 

Responding in the episode thread.

[Hana Chan]

I think that when it comes to the song distribution, in ND with mr. Shue or in the show in general, if the writers had divided the songs just a little bit better among the supporting characters (and I'm not saying that each character should have sung the same amount as e.g. a lead like Rachel, just each getting their modest but fair share of the pie every once in a while) that the majority of the seperate Glee fandoms would probably have been a lot more lenient and considerate when other characters than their fave got their turn.

 

Part of the problem was that the show offered very few performance opportunities for ND outside of the competitions. We rarely saw ND perform for assemblies (twice, that I can remember) or for public showcases. Outside of performing in the choir room, or for the self-indulgent stage performances without an audience, the kids didn't have an opportunity to get a lead or solo away from Rachel. And even in their rare non-competition singing opportunities, Rachel still tended to get the soloist spot. She got the lead in WSS despite the fact that vocally, Tina would have made a much better Maria and in canon, Mercedes outperformed her in the auditions. In Night of Neglect, she immediately grabbed for the closing song performance and only relented because Mercedes wouldn't give up fighting her for it. I don't think that the unfairness part of so many fans' brains would be so outraged if characters like Kurt, Mercedes, Tina and Santana were given other performance opportunities outside of the competitions.

 

Or just spread the competition solos out a little bit. I can get wanting to showcase Rachel in the biggest performances, but it was idiotic for her to often have the solor or duet, and then the lead in the group number. I wouldn't grouse so much if they let someone else have the solo, and then give Rachel the lead in the group and save her big solo for the Nationals performance (when would make sense to bring out their big guns). Or let Kurt and Mercedes do the duet for a change (since they sounded great together). When you consider that Rachel got all but two duets and/or solos for three years, there's just no way to justify that given the deep pool of talent that ND had.

 

And in the real world, Rachel wouldn't have been given every single competition solo. When I was in choir in high school, there were no automatic leads and our choir leader didn't pick material to suit one particular performer. We had the material and anyone who was interested had the chance to audition fairly and prove that they were the best suited to perform that particular song. And for a kicker... in order to keep things fair and to keep the same two or three people from dominating every performance (so that the other members didn't lose interest), if you got a solo in one performance, you couldn't audition for the next. Sure, there were those who got more solos than others, but no one felt like they didn't at least have a fair shot if they wanted it.

[Glorfindel]

The idea that out of the 3 songs a show choir has at a competition (in Glee universe) there has to a solo song and (often) a duet, so that's 2 out of 3, is already stupid.

 

RIB should have resisted on letting Rachel sing yet another solo at most competitions (and a Finchel duet), as she had enough songs already outside of those ND performing opportunities, and they should have left the competitions to the choir, with little solos here and there.

It's telling that it took Rachel getting suspended before the competition was a true group effort.

 

And as Hana Chan said the fans of the characters cared most for the competition solos that were given out (or not given) because these competitions were indeed one of the few times the minor characters had an opportunity to sing and shine, and also because the core of Glee in the first seasons was that glee club and what they achieved, so it was important that all characters (and therefore their fans) got some recognition and satisfaction out of that.

[jaytee1812]

The idea that out of the 3 songs a show choir has at a competition (in Glee universe) there has to a solo song and (often) a duet, so that's 2 out of 3, is already stupid.

 

RIB should have resisted on letting Rachel sing yet another solo at most competitions (and a Finchel duet), as she had enough songs already outside of those ND performing opportunities, and they should have left the competitions to the choir, with little solos here and there.

It's telling that it took Rachel getting suspended before the competition was a true group effort.

 

And as Hana Chan said the fans of the characters cared most for the competition solos that were given out (or not given) because these competitions were indeed one of the few times the minor characters had an opportunity to sing and shine, and also because the core of Glee in the first seasons was that glee club and what they achieved, so it was important that all characters (and therefore their fans) got some recognition and satisfaction out of that.

 

My favourite competition performance is Sectionals in Season 3, particularly ABC. Because my favourites then were Tina, Mike, Kurt, Puck and Quinn. I squealed at the screen when it opened up with Tina singing (honest I am an adult). And I'm sure that's true for others with The Troubletones.

[dizzyizzy01]

The song distribution certainly needed to be more balanced for New Directions for their competition numbers, but it's not Canon that Mercedes outperformed Rachel for WSS. Only Rachel said that when she was being insecure, the people casting the show did not. They thought both of them were good.

[phoenixrising]

Even though I stan pretty hard for Santana/Naya's singing voice, I will say, I thought it was utterly ridiculous when she came back for Rizzo. Have Tina, Unique, Kitty, anyone actually AT the school do the stupid part. Although I thought the actual song was gorgeous, it was really stupid. 

 

Honestly, all I ask on the show is fairness. I get that Rachel is the lead (as much as anyone will be on the show), but it needs to be spread out more evenly (at least among the more talented singers--I actually like Brittany, at least when she's done well, but Heather Morris should not have had so many songs in season 4). And boy, do my eyes roll in the back of my head whenever I hear Blaine or Rachel fans complaining about how they don't have a song/solo/whatever. And that eyeroll increased 5 fold when Klainers complained about not getting a Klaine duet in PUC, because Brittana has only had three duets, ever. Quick, 1 (in season 5). After Finchel, they definitely get the most. 

 

Generally, the entitlement of certain fans is bad. I certainly think every character has had really awful treatment in some way, and obviously people are more likely to notice it with their favorites, but I still solidly say Tina has gotten the worst deal.