S05.E04: Slabtown

[Pete Martell]

 I wondered about this too.  I also wondered how did the cop know he was a doctor (there's no other reason she'd be so adamant about saving him) and how Beth final figured out he was a doctor (I thought  doctor #1 would ask her this).  I know the whole hospital crew was effed up, but if they'd kill doctor #1 just because they had another one they're worse off than I thought.  Why would you kill a doctor who's obviously meek and pliable just because you have another one?  A doctor is something good to have a spare of, and you don't know if the other doctor is going to have more of a backbone.  Also, presumably the cop didn't know the other doctor's specialty--which we learned was oncology.  While he would have had full medical training, he probably didn't have as broad practical experience as a general doc working in a hospital (unless they mentioned he was a specialist and I missed it).

 

There was no indication Dawn wanted to kill the first doctor just because they had another one. The first doctor was paranoid about this, which then ramped up even more after he was throwing his weight around with Gorman (essentially saying "I can do what I want [like not let you 'claim' Beth] because what would you do without me?" and Gorman essentially said he wouldn't always be the only doctor around. 

 

Beth has her place in the group.  And I don't mind her in it.  As long as she doesn't sing.  

 

Sometimes I feel like I've missed multiple scenes of her singing on the show. I only remember about three. I thought the first two worked really well for atmosphere and were good song choices. I realize even one is too many if people don't care for her voice. I just don't feel like the show has overused this with her.

[AngelaHunter]

From Broken Remote in the Live Chat thread:

 

Ok, she had the same expression when she's about to be raped as when she tasted the guinea pig. Her kind of go-to 'big eyes and lack of expression' expression.

 

How frickin' true is that?

[Nashville]

I feel the same Nashville. I don't care much one way or another. I certainly don't feel the extreme hate some people seem to have, although I do find her annoying at times. Now Andrea was one I could barely tolerate watching, and I have no idea if it was the writing or the actress - she just irritated the hell out of me. I guess I can understand if some people feel about Beth the way I did about her.

With you 100% on Andrea.  For some reason I could never determine, Andrea seemed convinced hers was the only valid moral compass in the bunch - despite all evidence to the contrary.  Aggravating as hell.

[Jordan27]

Never could figure why the guy cop was scared of Dawn.  He had a gun and was bigger than her.  Also, hard to believe many would put up with basically being slaves.  Wait for a good moment, knock out a cop, get their gun, shoot the rest.

[JenMcSnark]

Sometimes I feel like I've missed multiple scenes of her singing on the show. I only remember about three. I thought the first two worked really well for atmosphere and were good song choices. I realize even one is too many if people don't care for her voice. I just don't feel like the show has overused this with her.

The funny thing for me is that I am Beth.  I like to go off by myself when camping and sing to the forest creatures.  I LOVE singing sad, artsy fartsy songs in the fog.  I would totally be wandering around the ZA singing to myself to keep my spirits up or whatever it does for me.  

 

But it doesn't work for me on this show.  And it's not really EK.  It just...doesn't work.  It seems weird and uncomfortable somehow.  Now if the others had joined in?  Or if she had started a song the others might know? Maybe it would have worked.  

 

I don't mind her mentioning it to the doctor in the context of this episode because I totally agreed with her (loved that Caravaggio btw).  It might have been funny had he started to sing after she said it and she joined in!  But maybe not. 

 

ETA:  But hell, who am I kidding?  It's a fun (and relatively harmless) thing to make fun of.

Edited November 4, 2014 by JenMcSnark

[Pete Martell]

I think Maggie did join her the first time. The other time worked for me because of song choice and the montage - to be honest other than "Clear" and Merle's death it was one of the only parts of late season 3 I actually liked.

 

I think it has the danger to be overused, and I didn't think it worked that well when she sang to Judith in season 4. It's just that if I didn't watch the show and just read boards, I'd think she sang every time she was in an episode. 

 

But I can see why it would bother people, obviously.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Pete Martell

[CletusMusashi]

Maybe her Big Escape will be a musical episode.

[Ronin Jackson]

If they were going to do an entire Beth episode, it probably should have been to kill her off ala Lost.  And not real jazzed that this hospital story isn't done yet.  I'd hoped the swiftness of resolving the Terminus/Termites story was an indicator of things to come.  Oh well.

 

This show seriously needs more Morgan.  Out of the top five episodes of the show so far, three have had appearances Morgan.  And Morgan has appeared in only three episodes.  Not a coincidence I think.

[Nashville]

Didn't Sargent Rape say something like "she was supposed to be for me" about Beth?  I got the feeling they picked her up because she is young and pretty.  I also am suspect of the story that she was being attacked and they saved her.  If she got cut across the face during a zombie attack then wouldn't she be doing the whole fever/turning thing?  I think she may have been killing one, and they came along, saw she was hot, and knocked her out.

 

Oh, the "saved from a walker attack" story?  Total bullshit. 

Go back and look at the funeral home evac scene, when Beth was originally snatched.

When Daryl is looking for her, and runs up on her purse laying on the ground?

How many re-deaded walker corpses do you see laying around - you know, the ones the raper troopers supposedly saved her from?

Here's a hint:

[Turtle]

And not real jazzed that this hospital story isn't done yet.  I'd hoped the swiftness of resolving the Terminus/Termites story was an indicator of things to come.​

 

This was the first episode with the hospital.  If they conclude the hospital stuff in the next episode that shows any hospital stuff (assuming we won't see it next week), the hospital will have been in fewer episodes than Terminus / people in Terminus.  I agree that it'd be best for whatever's going on at the hospital to be wrapped up quickly, though.  But they haven't exactly dragged it out, to date.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Turtle

[GaT]

  But they haven't exactly dragged it out, to date.

It just felt that way.

[Milaxx]

It would be nice if we had an actual timeline for this, but given Judith's apparent age (8 months or so) at the beginning of Season 5, I'm thinking it's been more like a year and a half, give or take.

 

I could swear either Gimple or Kirkman said on Talking Dead it has been about 18mths or so. It's late and I'm too lazy to google so I think it's fair to say it's been a year and a half to two years since the ZA started. If there is indeed a Darryl/Beth pairing it needs to be closer to 2 since Beth was 16 when they arrived at the farm.

[kikismom]

 Loved Noah, glad he got away, but how would he hook up with Daryl?

 

Oh, there are a lot of ways if you check out certain websites---oh I'm so sorry I thought you meant something else. Never mind.

Not even to get Noah (who Beth wanted to help) to a safe place and bring back reinforcements

I'm betting he remembers when Rick helped Sophia to a safe place and brought back reinforcements...

 

I must pause for a minute to appreciate your use of the word "finks,"

 

I'm bringin' finky back

 

  And believe me, I've attempted to make my scrubs obvious in my picture (cops don't like to ticket nurses), but it was virtually impossible.

 

Try using your hospital photo ID as an earring. Probably won't get away with it, but nothing ventured nothing gained. :- )

Edited November 4, 2014 by kikismom

[kikismom]

++

Edited November 4, 2014 by kikismom

[NoWillToResist]

 

How the hell did Bethie Poo climb down that sheet rope with a broken wrist?

 

She didn't, IIRC. Noah tied one end around her waist and then lowered her down. He then climbed down. Gotta say, considering it was his plan all along, I'm glad he got out. I'm also very glad that Beth smiled to see him escape. She can't know that Daryl/Carol are likely in the area and thus Noah's escape will lead to her own rescue so it seems like she's just glad for him. And that's really lovely of her.

 

Also figure this is why the cars with the crosses are out in an exposed area...so that Carol and Daryl can lock in on the hospital.

 

I was a little bothered by the fact that, after planning to escape for probably the better part of a year, Noah had no stash of weapons or modified weapons. Just himself and a fucking line of linens. Really? How was he planning on getting past the walkers exactly? Pluck?

 

Also couldn't understand why he relied on the line of linens rather than the massive vertical beam which ran the length of the elevator shaft. He could have shimmied down that and just used the line as a fail safe.

 

Why would Dawn bother to keep the found doctor's i.d.? Did she hang on to it in case she had to justify trying to save him?

 

I actually liked the doctor and didn't blame him for what he did (taking out his potential competition). He knows he's not Dawn's favourite so the moment he can be replaced, he'll either be out on his ass or at the bottom of the elevator shaft.

 

Did Beth ask how long her 'debt' was? I truly can't remember. I remember her saying that she was outta there as soon as she'd worked it off (IMO a stupid move) but seems to me that the more pertinent question would be "so how long does a broken wrist and some stitches translate to?"

 

Many thanks to the posters who clarified that the walkers were being called "rotters". I thought I heard that but it seemed...British-y to me, so I figured I'd heard wrong. I do like that other groups have different names for them; that makes sense in a world where zombie lore apparently doesn't exist....

Edited November 4, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[tv echo]

The hospital group is just a group of people who got stuck in the hospital.  They have no purpose, no mission, because they don't have any strong leaders left, only one weak leader.  So they just fool themselves into thinking they're doing something meaningful when they're just trying to survive.  It's like that gang that Darryl got caught up with, who came up with that stupid "claimed" code.  Just something to hang onto when you're just getting by.

 

Beth is not one of my favorite characters by any means (my faves are Rick, Darryl and Michonne), but I don't think it's fair to fault her just because of her looks - her acting, yes, her singing, yes, but people can't help how they look.  I also don't think it's fair to generalize as to why other fans may like her, esp. in a belittling way.  Everyone has their fantasies, whether it's to be a princess, a superhero, a sports star or a spy.  (Incidentally, the new Disney princesses rescue themselves.)

 

As for Beth having to be rescued, even Rick & his gang had to be rescued by Carol.  At least Beth tried to escape and helped Noah to escape.  I think the point made last season is that no one can go it alone anymore - you need other people to survive.

 

FYI, here's an interview with Christine Woods, the actress who played Officer Dawn Lerner:
Meet the new 'Walking Dead' cop from hell, who claims she is a 'hero'
By Dalton Ross on Nov 2, 2014 at 10:01PM
http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/11/02/walking-dead-dawn-lerner-christine-woods/

[ghoulina]

It didn't even seem like an episode of TWD. Meh

 

Sadly, I agree with you. 

[ghoulina]

Sometimes I feel like I've missed multiple scenes of her singing on the show. I only remember about three. I thought the first two worked really well for atmosphere and were good song choices. I realize even one is too many if people don't care for her voice. I just don't feel like the show has overused this with her.

 

I agree. The first time was when they had just cleared the prison yard and Hershel asked her to sing, which was sweet. Maggie joined in as well, if I remember. The second time was IN the prison, later in season three, while the men folk were debating what to do about the Guv. That time it did seem a little bit random, but I like that song a lot and Beth's singing doesn't bother me like it does others. The only other time I remember was her singing to Judith, and that time it was a lot less showy. It seemed very natural, like how I sing to my babies to soothe them. Honestly, while I don't want her to sing every episode, I much prefer EK's singing to her acting. 

[seamusk]

I thought this was a great episode.  More character depth than most episodes in fact.  And it provides a nice contrast against which the presumably "on the road" events can be presented.  I think Emily Kinney was fine as well.  And I liked the new characters.  I'm a little skeptical that every organized group they run into is despotic in some cooky weird fashion.  It's just hyperbolized that every group would have same insane secret, rather than a fair amount of them having your standard run of the mill secrets and harsh realities that our group faces.

[Timetoread]

Just because a young female character is not a machete wielding super hero does not mean they are a weak link or a liability.  Also Beth is a young character.  Growth seems likely.  I am not comfortable rationalizing away what occurred in this episode in terms of Beth trying to escape due to a predetermined hostility towards the character.

Just to clarify.  I don’t have a predetermined hostility toward the character.  Truthfully I’ve never wished her ill.  I was one of the few who felt that she might perhaps BE a good match for Daryl.  I am one of those who is bothered that the show hasn’t written concern for her welfare into any of the main characters other than Daryl.  And her sister’s dismissal of her is particularly disturbing to me.  I was even quite angry with Daryl for being so rough with her before his own meltdown.  It’s not the idea of the character Beth that I dislike.  It is the execution, or lack thereof – which I believe is a twofold failure.  First, the writers (who frankly suck at writing female characters in general) haven’t, in the course of 4 + seasons, done anything compelling with her.  She’s sings, she babysits, she puts on bandages, she writes in a diary, and occasionally hugs random male characters for no apparent reason – but she’s not a fleshed out person, she’s an archetype.  She IS the princess in the tower.  Even the tower princess has potential, though – keep in mind, once saved, that chick will be the queen.  But the writers do very little with her.  They show us what Beth DOES but don’t show us who Beth IS.  And then on the few instances when they have attempted to showcase her, it’s fallen flat because the actress doesn’t have the gravitas to infuse her character.  Take for instance, JB as Shane.  Shane was supposed to be a one season villain but JB made him so human and complex (using body language, pregnant pauses, looks in the eye) that it warranted an expansion of his character and he delivered a performance so compelling that we still argue about him to this day – three seasons after he died off the show. And it kick started a blossoming career on the big screen.  Emily doesn’t seem to know who Beth is either and therefore can’t tell us who she is.  When watching the episode I actually pictured the same scenario with a different actress (for example Shonequa) and I could see clearly that this could have been a very intense episode.  But it felt amateurish - like community theater.  Honestly I could write a better Beth.

 

Hmm, I consider someone who properly cares for an infant; has rudimentary nursing skills (talking about taping up Michonne's ankle injury at the prison, not necessarily what happened at Grady Hospital); is able to keep up with Daryl while running from the prison; knows enough to collect items like a broken sideview mirror which she later uses to light a campfire and hubcaps for a walker early-warning system; and learns to shoot a crossbow as relatively useful. But that's just me.

Beth babysits Judith that is all – somebody else is going on the runs to acquire the supplies needed to keep Judith alive.  Judith stays with her father at night.  And when danger comes, it is someone else killing walkers or PEOPLE to protect the baby.  For what it’s worth I was an in demand babysitter, caring for infants, when I was 12 years old.  Taping up an ankle can be and is learned in Girl Scouts.  Keeping up with Daryl isn’t that hard when a) you are young, in shape, and literally running for your life and b) Daryl is actively protecting you – as in he’s not going to outrun her by a mile to leave her to the zombies.  Collecting items is something the whole group did as a survival MO.  Carl knows how to forage as well.  I call BS on that crossbow stuff though.  I have a coworker who is basically Daryl and he let me try his crossbow.  I couldn’t, using every ounce of my strength pull that thing back.  NONE of the females present could.  When I saw Beth do that I was like “No freakin’ way!”  My point is there is not a skillset that she brings to the table.  She is just there, doing as she’s told – which is fine for the most part, it doesn't make her a bad person, but it's not necessarily the portrayal of a compelling character. 

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here. But I thought we did see that. I thought she was kind of wary of the place from the start. She spent a good portion of the episode getting a feel of the place, observing the going on's, and getting a vibe from the people there. When she realized the hospital was not a place she wanted to be any longer, she made an active plan to get out. I didn't see her playing dead. She told that lady cop to her face that she believed she was strong and not a burden to anyone. To me, that sounded like someone who wanted to survive. By the end of the episode, I thought the show made it pretty clear that she was over everyone at that hospital and was going to do what she could to get out. Now that Carol's there, hopefully they can put together a successful plan.

I think we would have seen that with a better actress.  What I saw was Emily Kinney looking wide-eyed and providing the ear for all the other bit actors who looked excited to read their lines on a popular television show.  And for the record, she did not make the plan to get out.  She went along with Noah’s plan.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Timetoread

[SlothLoveChunk]

I've never read the comics, so this is pure speculation, but...

I find it very interesting that every single person that hospital group has brought in has been injured, and mostly severely. Rick and his group run into people every once in a while, and MAYBE 10% of those people are actively injured. This group meets 100% injured people, people that have survived in a ridiculously messed up zombie world for 2ish years. Coincidence? I think not.

Also, I like to believe that Carol and Darryl figured out a little of what the hospital group was into, and Carol is undercover right now. Legitimately knocked out unconscious at the moment (see earlier paragraph), but that it's not so coincidental that she's suddenly at the same hospital as Beth.

While this episode wasn't nearly as good as the previous ones so far, I didn't find it as horrible as many are stating here. I wish a few more questions were answered and it didn't end on a cliffhanger (I have NO interest in the Abraham episode next week), but overall it kept me reasonably interested.

However, I want more baby Judith!

[mightysparrow]

Just to clarify.  I don’t have a predetermined hostility toward the character.  Truthfully I’ve never wished her ill.  I was one of the few who felt that she might perhaps BE a good match for Daryl.  I am one of those who is bothered that the show hasn’t written concern for her welfare into any of the main characters other than Daryl.  And her sister’s dismissal of her is particularly disturbing to me.  I was even quite angry with Daryl for being so rough with her before his own meltdown.  It’s not the idea of the character Beth that I dislike.  It is the execution, or lack thereof – which I believe is a twofold failure.  First, the writers (who frankly suck at writing female characters in general) haven’t, in the course of 4 + seasons, done anything compelling with her.  She’s sings, she babysits, she puts on bandages, she writes in a diary, and occasionally hugs random male characters for no apparent reason – but she’s not a fleshed out person, she’s an archetype.  She IS the princess in the tower.  Even the tower princess has potential, though – keep in mind, once saved, that chick will be the queen.  But the writers do very little with her.  They show us what Beth DOES but don’t show us who Beth IS.  And then on the few instances when they have attempted to showcase her, it’s fallen flat because the actress doesn’t have the gravitas to infuse her character.  Take for instance, JB as Shane.  Shane was supposed to be a one season villain but JB made him so human and complex (using body language, pregnant pauses, looks in the eye) that it warranted an expansion of his character and he delivered a performance so compelling that we still argue about him to this day – three seasons after he died off the show. And it kick started a blossoming career on the big screen.  Emily doesn’t seem to know who Beth is either and therefore can’t tell us who she is.  When watching the episode I actually pictured the same scenario with a different actress (for example Shonequa) and I could see clearly that this could have been a very intense episode.  But it felt amateurish - like community theater.  Honestly I could write a better Beth.

 

Beth babysits Judith that is all – somebody else is going on the runs to acquire the supplies needed to keep Judith alive.  Judith stays with her father at night.  And when danger comes, it is someone else killing walkers or PEOPLE to protect the baby.  For what it’s worth I was an in demand babysitter, caring for infants, when I was 12 years old.  Taping up an ankle can be and is learned in Girl Scouts.  Keeping up with Daryl isn’t that hard when a) you are young, in shape, and literally running for your life and b) Daryl is actively protecting you – as in he’s not going to outrun her by a mile to leave her to the zombies.  Collecting items is something the whole group did as a survival MO.  Carl knows how to forage as well.  I call BS on that crossbow stuff though.  I have a coworker who is basically Daryl and he let me try his crossbow.  I couldn’t, using every ounce of my strength pull that thing back.  NONE of the females present could.  When I saw Beth do that I was like “No freakin’ way!”  My point is there is not a skillset that she brings to the table.  She is just there, doing as she’s told – which is fine for the most part, it doesn't make her a bad person, but it's not necessarily the portrayal of a compelling character. 

 

I think we would have seen that with a better actress.  What I saw was Emily Kinney looking wide-eyed and providing the ear for all the other bit actors who looked excited to read their lines on a popular television show.  And for the record, she did not make the plan to get out.  She went along with Noah’s plan.

 

Good comment!  I could care less about Beth.  But I resent every moment I have to spend watching an incompetent actor stink up the screen.  Beth was obviously redshirt material, so I guess tptb didn't care if the person playing her wasn't any good.  She just sort of hung around in the background for four seasons and was never called on to do any heavy lifting.  Then I guess they decided to throw Emily a bone because she was nice and they liked her.  And for whatever reason (I have my own ideas) the character blew up. 

 

It makes me smile when I read a complaint about how mean some of us are towards Beth/Emily.  I don't think any of the critics of the character or actor have been as busy as her fans.  They're the ones who have literally changed the direction of the show.  A bunch of people moaning online about a basic cable tv show about zombies doesn't hurt anybody.  Criticizing Beth or EK hasn't resulted in millions of people sitting through something like what happened on Sunday night.  Beth was never written to be a central figure and she sure as heck was never played that way.  What pisses me off is that tptb decided to cater to the fangirls instead of thinking about the show and the story they were telling. 

 

If anyone can tell me what the point of 'Slabtown' was and how it contributes to moving the story forward, I would be very grateful.  Because everything about the episode looked like it was thrown together.  From the sets to the script to the performances, it looked like NOBODY put any real thought or effort into it.  I spent an hour watching some jacked up, thrown together shit and that's an hour that I'll never get back.  I gave TWD the most valuable thing a person can give; my time.  And they WASTED it. 

Edited November 4, 2014 by mightysparrow

[Pixel]

Try using your hospital photo ID as an earring. Probably won't get away with it, but nothing ventured nothing gained. :- )

 

I keep mine on my rearview mirror. It's gotten me out of 5 tickets, and counting. I have a lead foot.

Eh, I liked seeing some different scenery. It was fun being in a cityscape for a while. I wouldn't want to ever permanently leave Rick and Co., but I didn't hate this episode. I did find EK's acting a bit lacking, but not enough to ruin it for me. I did find myself thinking how much better it could have been had it been ANY other member of the gang in her place.

[AngelaHunter]

I don’t have a predetermined hostility toward the character.  Truthfully I’ve never wished her ill.  I was one of the few who felt that she might perhaps BE a good match for Daryl.

 

I was neutral towards her since in her mostly minor interactions with the other characters, her lack of acting skills was not very noticeable.

 

When I thought she was going to be paired with Daryl, intimately, I was kind of like, "Oh gross" until I watched a YT fan video and I swear I nearly teared up and thought, yes, I can see that. Obviously I am more of a big ol' sloppy sap than I realized. Dont' hate me for it!

 

I often think the fanvids are better than the show. Here's the one I mean: ("Don't you think that's beautiful?") hehe

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26_CblE7GBo

 

 

[AndySmith]

I wouldn't say I hate watch this show. But, it is entertaining, at least, the same way a car crash is. It's bad, but you can't just stop watching. This was the first episode in a while that just bored the crap out of me. Even moreso than than the second-half of the last season. At least most of those episodes had enough plot and action to keep thingsmoving along. I do appreciate their effort for "world building" with the hospital, but, zzzzzzz.

Now that Carol, AKA Mrs. Rambo, is here, thing might get more fun. Granted, I'm not as in love with her as the writers apparently are, but at least she gets stuff done.

Edited November 4, 2014 by AndySmith

[kelnic86]

 

I think we would have seen that with a better actress.  What I saw was Emily Kinney looking wide-eyed and providing the ear for all the other bit actors who looked excited to read their lines on a popular television show.  And for the record, she did not make the plan to get out.  She went along with Noah’s plan.

Ah, okay. I had a feeling that's what you were talking about. And fair enough on the Noah made the plan comment. Even if Beth didn't come up with the plan, my point was that she did plan on getting out. But I understand what you're saying.

[nachomama]

I watched a few of the webisodes from season 1, they had the backstory of bicycle girl, etc and this episode felt like that. Team B went in and shot this, even the effects weren't as good. 

 

In the beginning I don't think they beat us over the head with EK singing. Around the campfire felt kinda natural. Maybe tinkling on a found piano at the funeral home wouldn't be a stretch if you hadn't seen one in a while, but I keep remembering episodes of Happy Days and Laverne and Shirley that all of a sudden held a talent show or some weird variety show and everyone broke into song and it was so bizarrely thrust at us. I dont think they've gotten there yet with Beth but I don't want them forcing it down our throats. 

[aA0009]

I'm missing the charm of the first two seasons. OK, I prefer the core group - Rick, Daryl, Michonne and that bunch. I miss Rick's intensity and heart. I liked the two part Governor storyline cause I found the character interesting but when they base whole episodes to marginally OK characters who marginally can act and are marginally appealing, it's unfortunately a snooze. The last show bored me because of the central Beth lead. Yeau, the storyline had potential and nothing against it but Beth is a secondary person who is fine in a supporting role (though I cannot understand why Maggie barely mentioned her). And I never thought I'd find the Walking Dead boring.

 

No matter WHAT storyline they never forget to fill in token zombie slashing gore fest moments that are getting more boring as they are predictable. So far we're breezing through some tragic human interest stuff that barely make a ripple because I'm not invested. Of great potential was the "tainted meat" angle with the cannibals. Not so, and we're off and running somewhere else so if they do address that scenario later we've all lost interest. Is it cost cutting that is regulating episodes to one or two central characters? Doesn't work for me. Things are becoming scattered and the heart of the show is sinking. Except for the exceptional episode 3, very disappointed with this season. 

[AndySmith]

 

Is it cost cutting that is regulating episodes to one or two central characters? 

 

I don't think it is that. While most shows do get expensive over time, that can be countered by the fact that this show is one of the few where ratings get better each season. Costs are going up, but so is the revenue. And this show is HUGE overseas, so that is another big revenue stream.

 

[Timetoread]

Good comment!  I could care less about Beth.  But I resent every moment I have to spend watching an incompetent actor stink up the screen.  Beth was obviously redshirt material, so I guess tptb didn't care if the person playing her wasn't any good.  She just sort of hung around in the background for four seasons and was never called on to do any heavy lifting.  Then I guess they decided to throw Emily a bone because she was nice and they liked her.  And for whatever reason (I have my own ideas) the character blew up. 

 

It makes me smile when I read a complaint about how mean some of us are towards Beth/Emily.  I don't think any of the critics of the character or actor have been as busy as her fans.  They're the ones who have literally changed the direction of the show.  A bunch of people moaning online about a basic cable tv show about zombies doesn't hurt anybody.  Criticizing Beth or EK hasn't resulted in millions of people sitting through something like what happened on Sunday night.  Beth was never written to be a central figure and she sure as heck was never played that way.  What pisses me off is that tptb decided to cater to the fangirls instead of thinking about the show and the story they were telling. 

 

If anyone can tell me what the point of 'Slabtown' was and how it contributes to moving the story forward, I would be very grateful.  Because everything about the episode looked like it was thrown together.  From the sets to the script to the performances, it looked like NOBODY put any real thought or effort into it.  I spent an hour watching some jacked up, thrown together shit and that's an hour that I'll never get back.  I gave TWD the most valuable thing a person can give; my time.  And they WASTED it. 

 

LOL.  Honestly I wouldn't have minded if the acting and story were better.  If you showed me on paper : Bob spends an hour dying and Sasha is upset.  I would have been like "Really, can't we have some Rick, Michonne and Carl instead?"  But the actors sold the hell out of it and it was very touching to me.  Sonequa was surprisingly riveting and I'd like to see more of her.  Emily never leaves me wanting more.

[AngelaHunter]

Of great potential was the "tainted meat" angle with the cannibals. Not so, and we're off and running somewhere else so if they do address that scenario later we've all lost interest

 

I wish the Cannibals vs Our Guys could have been played out a little longer. While I loved the climax of this story arc, I felt it to be too rushed and there wasn't quite enough time spent on the cat/mouse game to build up much dread or suspense. And then this latest episode, right on the heels of the last one felt like it dragged on forever. 

[Timetoread]

I wish the Cannibals vs Our Guys could have been played out a little longer. While I loved the climax of this story arc, I felt it to be too rushed and there wasn't quite enough time spent on the cat/mouse game to build up much dread or suspense. And then this latest episode, right on the heels of the last one felt like it dragged on forever. 

 

I wish that they weren't just out and out villains and posed a true philosophical question about what it means to "survive" and even what it means to be truly hungry enough to turn to cannibalism.  I would have had it play out for a while and climax with them cornering Bob and the tainted meat being what kills them.

[Gwen-Stacys]

I think we would have seen that with a better actress.  What I saw was Emily Kinney looking wide-eyed and providing the ear for all the other bit actors who looked excited to read their lines on a popular television show.  And for the record, she did not make the plan to get out.  She went along with Noah’s plan.

IDK, I disagree. I think EK is competent enough that people understood where Beth's headspace was by the end of the episode. (Heck, my dad and my male co-workers all understood it and they never get anything.) And while it was Noah's plan, he would've died without Beth's assistance. Between the two of them, she was the only one actively pushing them forward and killing zombies. Her shooting got lead them to the exit since Noah dropped the flashlight. So while, yes, there are more competent killing machines in the Grimes' expanded family group, Beth isn't exactly a slouch either. Babysitting and staying behind aside.

 

Like she said, she's not a Michonne, Maggie, or Carol but she's still there and that says something. Especially since the other "weak" members of the group have been killed off already.

 

I've never read the comics, so this is pure speculation, but...

I find it very interesting that every single person that hospital group has brought in has been injured, and mostly severely. Rick and his group run into people every once in a while, and MAYBE 10% of those people are actively injured. This group meets 100% injured people, people that have survived in a ridiculously messed up zombie world for 2ish years. Coincidence? I think not.

Also, I like to believe that Carol and Darryl figured out a little of what the hospital group was into, and Carol is undercover right now. Legitimately knocked out unconscious at the moment (see earlier paragraph), but that it's not so coincidental that she's suddenly at the same hospital as Beth.

While this episode wasn't nearly as good as the previous ones so far, I didn't find it as horrible as many are stating here. I wish a few more questions were answered and it didn't end on a cliffhanger (I have NO interest in the Abraham episode next week), but overall it kept me reasonably interested.

However, I want more baby Judith!

 

I thought the same thing! Someone else posted the same theory further up thread somewhere. I think they just happened to see Beth, hit her over the head, and snatched her up. it would also correlate when taking the entire scene into context, IE Daryl chasing after the car. The most definitely saw him and that's why they took off so quickly.

 

There's never enough Judith.

 

I didn't mind this episode so much and I liked that they touched on a subject that most likely would happen in a scenario like the ZA. People's base natures going unchecked leads to unsavory happening, like women and children being raped and passed around... sometimes weaker men too.  Also how things like that could wear on decent people who allow it to happen because they don't feel like they're strong enough to stop them or it's an unspoken bargain to maintain a terse order.

[Watcher0363]

This episode was a study in the chain of command structure. Because so few people serve in the military these days that structure is not well understood. The basic principle is that you respect the position above all else. The secondary aspect of respecting the person in the position is not necessary but can be helpful. When you maintain a clear power structure the group can weather much more ups and downs. Having no structure can and will lead to chaos. This played out in earlier seasons with the main group only for Rick to decide that they needed to set up a council. But even that council set up chain of command protocols.

 

This is often played out in post apocalyptic dramas. Take Battlestar Galactica. would Adama follow the orders of the Secretary of Education, would he respect the rights of the non warriors. Would Adama follow the orders of Admiral Cain. In the end the thing that would save them is a clear chain of command which everyone or enough people respected. So that order and focus on surviving could be maintained. Remember what Admiral Cain allowed to happen to her Six, to help maintain a better control on power, also how she treated her civilians. You were useful are you were not, and she had no place for useless people in her command.

 

They were so far out when they came across Beth because they had a lead on a weapons cache. Could have been Morgan's.

 

All things considered the hospital operation was running and working better than most compounds in the ZA. She was looking for useful people, making people work for what they took. But more importantly she was not over extending her resources. She used the fact that rescue was coming someday and all they needed to do was survive long enough for that day.

 

The one thing that has been shown on this show in complete stark terms with no middle ground has been sex. It is either in a loving environment or some harsh rape culture. The fact is that sex has always been able to find a middle ground through out history in the best and worst of times. I do not know if it would be nice to see a woman or man offering up sex for some kind of luxury item, whether that item be food or shelter or security, it would be very realistic however.

[NoWillToResist]

 

If anyone can tell me what the point of 'Slabtown' was and how it contributes to moving the story forward, I would be very grateful.  Because everything about the episode looked like it was thrown together.

 

Yeah, I got nuthin'. Nothing new, anyway. New people are crazy, sadistic, rapey, abusive, cannibals...any and all of the above. It's getting a little ridiculous at this point. Granted, perhaps time will tell but I will not be particularly surprised if the hospital is a grim memory if/when Beth and Carol get out. Then we move on to the next big bad meanies.

 

It's a shame because I think it would have been far more compelling if the evil, rapey cop stuff was something that emerged at the end of the ep or had been hidden from Dawn. Like, maybe the hospital group was a recently cobbled together group of survivors. The cops go off on supply runs and are selective of who they 'rescue'. Meanwhile the doctor and Dawn are unaware of the cop's nefarious plans for the ladies; they genuinely want to help and ask/guilt people into staying and helping out. They're trying to build this little society etc. Near the end of the ep, the cops decide they deserve a reward for their hard work and expect the ladies to put out...some rebellion happens in the hospital, cue Beth and Noah's opportunity to escape, but it ends the same.

 

Being presented that their little society had been ticking along for over a year just did not work on any level for me. They have plentiful food, water, electricity, sewage disposal...how??? They toss those they can't save down the elevator shaft and, after a year, it was, what....ten bodies?

 

And having Dawn be complicit in the rape of young women was just...ugh. Bored of the rape, people! GOD! I got the sense that Dawn had served her time as sexual currency and that's why she was down with it happening to others. Like, if you move up the chain of command, you too can earn a 'get out of rape' card!

 

They really had a chance here to do something DIFFERENT and compelling and I feel that they dropped the ball BIG TIME...

Edited November 4, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[CletusMusashi]

Actually, I got more of a 1970s-80s "Women's Prison Warden" vibe off of Dawn. If the show were on HBO instead of AMC... hell, maybe even if it were on FX, she'd be giving Beth the same exact lectures that she did, but Beth would be naked and shackled from the ceiling and Dawn would be wearing fishnets and a Nazi hat while beating her with a riding crop. This has me worried about Carol, though. The older mentor convict tends to gets killed off in the middle of those stories for pathos.

[Pete Martell]

I think if they'd had Dawn totally unaware, people would have just said that was unrealistic too.

 

If I could have changed something I would have had less of other characters telling us that Dawn meant well or was trying or was in a difficult position, and actually showed us this instead.

 

I don't know if the show is really trying to say all outside groups must be awful and terrible and that this is the only source of drama. I think they were trying to parallel Beth's journey to the group's journey in Terminus. It just feels redundant because it's 4-5 episodes in a row of this with The Governor not too distant of a memory.

[ladyrott]

I wonder if the nurses were among those deemed too strong to live? If deadly Doctor killed off the other doctor because he presented a threat to him, what would he do with a competent nurse?I wonder if the nurses were among those deemed too strong to live? If deadly Doctor killed off the other doctor because he presented a threat to him, what would he do with a competent nurse?

 

 

I am not a nurse, but many in my family are so I will say this is perfectly plausible to me.  We all know who does the REAL work in a hospital.  ;)

[CletusMusashi]

As far as other groups go, they're kind of damned if they do, damned if they don't. They've met so many others already, in a small area, that it's obvious there are other survivors all over. To suddenly just never see them any more would be like if all of a sudden nobody ever wandered through Gilligan's Island.

People tend to form larger, more organized groups.

If they encounter a group that's wonderful, they might not want to leave, so that leaves us with groups that are obviously worse than life with Rick.

Seriously, what if Terminus hadn't been evil? Abraham's group would be driving to D.C. and everybody else would be drinking soy lattes with Gareth. 

No thank you.

There's a trope called "Failure is the Only Option." It refers to shows that are not allowed to really progress during their run, because if they do they're over. Gilligan can't leave the island until the end. Voyager can go through as many wormholes and time portals as it wants, but it's still going to be stuck out there in deep space again next week, until the finale. And Rick will never have a safe, sane, happy place to settle down until the end of the series. Until then, he and his followers must wander the metaphorical desert enduring hardship and encountering heathens on all sides. Those are the rules, and if they ever do decide to have them settle down in a rebuilt city with jobs and complex society and reasonable authority figures, everybody will scream that the show has jumped the shark.

Edited November 4, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[ChipBach]

I'm with the "meh" crowd on this episode...  Not sure it is a story worth telling in such detail.  Beth was captured, we found her, oh yeah, we picked up a doctor, Noah, and a security guard named Dawn who is a real tight-ass...

 

The only thing I could think of when Beth and Noah hit the bottom of the elevator shaft was "good, they are covered in dead goo, they are safe to wander aimlessly through the dead hoard"...  Alas, the "guts" defense, which was remembered by Carol two episodes ago, was forgotten by Beth the Bubble-head...  Seemed like kind of an important tactic to forget given how far they could have shambled in cloaking device mode...

Edited November 4, 2014 by ChipBach

[AngelaHunter]

Actually, I got more of a 1970s-80s "Women's Prison Warden" vibe off of Dawn. If the show were on HBO instead of AMC... hell, maybe even if it were on FX, she'd be giving Beth the same exact lectures that she did, but Beth would be naked and shackled from the ceiling and Dawn would be wearing fishnets and a Nazi hat while beating her with a riding crop.

 

Holy shit, yes. I knew she reminded me of someone, and that someone is "Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS".

 

May I say that the posts here are much more entertaining than the espisode?

[Pete Martell]

I'm with the "meh" crowd on this episode...  Not sure it is a story worth telling in such detail.  Beth was captured, we found her, oh yeah, we picked up a doctor, Noah, and a security guard named Dawn who is a real tight-ass...

 

The only thing I could think of when Beth and Noah hit the bottom of the elevator shaft was "good, they are covered in dead goo, they are safe to wander aimlessly through the dead hoard"...  Alas, the "guts" defense, which was remembered by Carol two episodes ago, was forgotten by Beth the Bubble-head...  Seemed like kind of an important tactic to forget given how far they could have shambled in cloaking device mode...

 

They didn't really have time to camo themselves to that degree, as the cops were after them. 

[CletusMusashi]

Does Beth know the camo trick? Rick and Glenn used it way back in Season 1, and I don't remember seeing it since then, at least until Carol brought it back.

Of course Carol remembers it. She's the one who had to do their laundry afterwards.

But Beth didn't meet them until Season 2.

[ChipBach]

Yabut - I gotta believe, when you are sitting around a lonely prison for a few months, sharpening your kitana, camo tactics would come up at some point.  Especially if Carol is teaching 8 years how to stab brains and stuff, the near adults would have some "Zombie Apocalypse Orientation" classes along the way.  

[Nashville]

Did Beth ask how long her 'debt' was? I truly can't remember. I remember her saying that she was outta there as soon as she'd worked it off (IMO a stupid move) but seems to me that the more pertinent question would be "so how long does a broken wrist and some stitches translate to?"

No - and I was watching like a hawk for it from Dawn's first "you OWE us."  In the end, though, it doesn't really matter; Beth will never get her debt worked off.

 

In Grady, Dawn and her compatriots have set up a stereotypical "Company Store" operation, and they are the Company.  The idea behind the Company Store, of course, is to keep you beholden to the Company - forever.  How?

1. The Company unilaterally sets your initial obligation ("so how long does a broken wrist and some stitches translate to?").
2. The Company also unilaterally sets your "wages" - how much certain types of work count toward reducing your obligation.  Dutch-ruddering Rapey Lou And The Boys In Blue, for example, may "pay" more than washing the skidmarks out of their skivvies, for example.
3. The Company also unilaterally sets "store prices" - how much sustenance and/or luxury items (such as meals) increase your obligation.
4. Obligations, wages, prices - none of these are negotiable.  Attempts to negotiate are ignored, at best, or punished at worst.
5. There is no appeals process.  The Company's word is law.  "Employees" who have an issue with this can refer to the Negotiation process cited in #4.

 

The point is - the game is rigged, in the House's (or the Company's, in this case) favor.  The catch is #3 - the Company Store prices.  Doesn't matter what you start out owing, or what your wages are - the prices will always be so high you have no chance of getting out from under. 

 

Say your "wage" is each day of service, and your initial obligation is one month ("work for us as an orderly for a month, and we'll call it even").  Great! 

• But then you need to eat during that month - and the price for each meal is an additional day of service.  Okay - I'll just eat every other day, That has you up to a month and a half of service - suckier, but still manageable.
• But wait - you mean you want water too?  Well, clean water's hard to come by - that's another extra day of service for a day's water ration.  Stretch out your ration and drink every other day?  Ooo-kay... but now you're up to two months before you're free and clear.
• Oh, by the way - did we mention the Security Tax, for keeping you safe from the rotters on the ground floor who are constantly trying to get in?  That's an extra week of service each month you're here.  So now you're up to two and a half months.
• But wait - now you're talking two and a half months of food and water, not the month you originally started out with....

 

You can see how it goes.  Doesn't matter WHAT you do - even if you're polishing every police baton in the place, another "cost" will pop up to keep you in the hole.  No pun intended.

 

Which is why a busted leg kept Noah in this place for over a year and counting.

 

ETA:

P.S.: Every time one of Dawn's beatings or slapfests busts someone's stitches open, or opens up a new gash, or breaks an arm or leg, etc., etc. - reckon the hapless victim gets "charged" for the medical attention required to put them back together?

Edited November 4, 2014 by Nashville

[Ouisch]

The only thing I could think of when Beth and Noah hit the bottom of the elevator shaft was "good, they are covered in dead goo, they are safe to wander aimlessly through the dead hoard"...

 

 

But the doctor or Prison Matron Dawn always stabbed the brain before tossing the dead patient down the elevator shaft, thus preventing them from turning. They tossed down warm corpses for the Walkers to feed on. Thus, the corpse blood/guts that Beth and Noah fell on was like catnip for the Walkers, and not stinky icky "Hey, you smell like us!" Walker guts. Also, I'm presuming that because the Walkers chow down on the Dead Patient Treats, that's why there wasn't a huge build-up of bodies at the bottom of the shaft.

[CletusMusashi]

So... Beth and Carol are being held by an evil group that has a a big zombie pit that people can easily be dropped into.

Anybody else see a Bond climax coming?

I'm thinking either Carol gets tossed in there alive and comes back with a combination halberd-chainsaw-flamethrower-machine gun that she made out of zombie bones...

or the heroines end up sending Dawninatrix down the shaft instead.

[ghoulina]

The only thing I could think of when Beth and Noah hit the bottom of the elevator shaft was "good, they are covered in dead goo, they are safe to wander aimlessly through the dead hoard"...  Alas, the "guts" defense, which was remembered by Carol two episodes ago, was forgotten by Beth the Bubble-head...  Seemed like kind of an important tactic to forget given how far they could have shambled in cloaking device mode...

 

My husband said the exact same thing! He was like, "Oh, perfect, they can camouflage themselves in all those guts". But alas, he was just as let down as I was about them bypassing all the cars. 

[CletusMusashi]

It seems to me that a force competent enough to get in and out of Atlanta on a regular basis would be smart enough not to leave their keys in the ignition.

The keys are probably kept locked up most of the time, and only issued to the lollicops for specific official business.

Seriously, if you were in charge, would you trust Gordon not to get his keys stolen?

Edited November 4, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[ghoulina]

It seems to me that a force competent enough to get in and out of Atlanta on a regular basis would be smart enough not to leave their keys in the ignition.

The keys are probably kept locked up most of the time, and only issued to the lollicops for specific official business.
Seriously, if you were in charge, would you trust Gordon not to get his keys stolen?

 

Yea, I wouldn't leave my keys in the car, ZA or not. But they didn't even check. That was what bothered me. They know those cars are in use, not just abandoned. I would have at least given a quick look through the windows, to see if I would have an easier escape method.