To Subscribe Or Not To Subscribe, That Is The Question: Paid Streaming Services

[meowmommy]

CNN’s new streaming service, CNN Plus, is already shutting down

Quote

Less than a month after CNN launched with great fanfare a $100 million streaming service that represented a massive bet on the future of digital news consumption, new parent company Warner Bros. Discovery has decided to shut it down at the end of April...

Yet the service got off to a slow start, as the cable-news giant found difficulty convincing enough customers to pay the $5.99 monthly cost. On Thursday, new CNN chief executive Chris Licht stunned employees with the announcement it would shutter next week.

Just couldn't see how they were going to get people to pay for news, but yes, it's still surprising that they pulled the plug so quickly.  Wonder what happens to the content, existing and planned?

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, meowmommy said:

Just couldn't see how they were going to get people to pay for news, but yes, it's still surprising that they pulled the plug so quickly.  

I might pay for a news streaming service. If it was doing actual hard investigate news and reporting on important stories. But paying for CNN to report on one or two stories today, and the rest is just their dumb pundits discussing those stories, seems dumb.

[SuprSuprElevated]

Th CNN+ experiment seems like it was an "everyone is doing this streaming thing, we should too" decision, without any real work on how to make it somthing that would appeal to subscribers.  Considering the tepid ratings of the mothership, that was just dumb.

[Kel Varnsen]

8 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Th CNN+ experiment seems like it was an "everyone is doing this streaming thing, we should too" decision, without any real work on how to make it somthing that would appeal to subscribers.  Considering the tepid ratings of the mothership, that was just dumb.

It seems like with today's technology and how crappy CNN's programming is you could probably set up a streaming service that is basically a choose your own adventure kind of thing. Like you pick one of the maybe 4 news stories they cover on any given day and then pick various pundits you want to hear talk and they would just spout off their sides talking points on that story for an hour. When my gym was open and I would go that was the only time I would watch CNN, and it really seemed like the pundits for a given side on a given issue were pretty interchangeable. To the point where you could probably edit one person from one show into another show talking about the same thing without much difficulty.

[meowmommy]

11 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Th CNN+ experiment seems like it was an "everyone is doing this streaming thing, we should too" decision, without any real work on how to make it somthing that would appeal to subscribers. 

I at least give credit to Chris Licht for coming in new, seeing that what he inherited was poorly thought out, badly planned, and just wasn't going to work, and refusing to throw good money after bad.

[Peace 47]

Going back to the Netflix discussion for a minute, now that they are in hot water with investors, I guess Netflix is very serious about “no password sharing anymore” and per this CNBC article, is going to implement on a wide scale their previously discussed plan of charging more for “password sharing.”  I still don’t know exactly how this is going to work, and the end of the article alludes to the fact that it may be difficult to parse a family member “temporarily” living away from home from a password-sharer but they can easily crack down on people with “15 profiles” as suspected password sharers.

Is it going to be like my Spectrum app, where if you are not on your home WiFi, they can tell?  And would they charge you for using a profile away from your home base?  But what if you have a VPN?  Is it just going to be a flat charge on everyone who has more than one (or two) profile?  (But then couldn’t password sharers just decide to collapse viewing onto one profile if they really didn’t want to pay more?  And isn’t the bulk of password sharing just people with 2-3 profiles on their account?)

I don’t know why they missed their subscriber projection so badly last quarter, and it’s obviously not good to see subscriber base shrinkage, but it surprises me a bit how apocalyptic the market treated the event.  I would have thought that Netflix would be in a more mature phase of its business cycle versus other streaming services (having been around longer) and so would not be expected to have the same growth rate, but I guess their massive investments in content require that kind of exuberant growth on a continuous basis.

[shapeshifter]

29 minutes ago, Peace 47 said:

Is it going to be like my Spectrum app, where if you are not on your home WiFi, they can tell?

*cough* not so much *cough*

 

30 minutes ago, Peace 47 said:

I don’t know why they missed their subscriber projection so badly last quarter,

I don't know if they really lost a lot of Russian subscribers (I didn't check to see if it was speculation or fact on Twitter that I saw out of the corner of my eye as I scrolled) but I'm pretty sure a lot of their lost customers are just folks who contributed to their Pandemic windfall and are now back at work and don't want to continue to pay for Netflix they don't have time for, especially if they're paying more at the pump to commute to work. Netflix should have (IMO) not assumed that all those Pandemic sign-ups were permanent.

[SoMuchTV]

Regarding the Netflix subscriber loss drama, I'm pretty sure I heard that the numbers didn't include the lost Russian subscribers.

And I have to admit that my first reaction was, serves them right.  Coming right after a price hike, they come out with a crackdown on shared accounts.  It inspired me to take stock of how much I actually watch Netflix anymore.  I downgraded to the lowest tier plan.  It's still almost twice as much as some other streamers (Hulu, Apple, which I'm actually on free or trial plans now).  Netflix, you're not the only game in town anymore!

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

I still don’t know exactly how this is going to work, and the end of the article alludes to the fact that it may be difficult to parse a family member “temporarily” living away from home from a password-sharer but they can easily crack down on people with “15 profiles” as suspected password sharers.

How can anyone have 15 profiles? The max is 5. 

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I don't know if they really lost a lot of Russian subscribers (I didn't check to see if it was speculation or fact on Twitter that I saw out of the corner of my eye as I scrolled) but I'm pretty sure a lot of their lost customers are just folks who contributed to their Pandemic windfall and are now back at work and don't want to continue to pay for Netflix they don't have time for, especially if they're paying more at the pump to commute to work. Netflix should have (IMO) not assumed that all those Pandemic sign-ups were permanent.

They say they lost 700,000 Russian subscribers. 

3 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

 

Regarding the Netflix subscriber loss drama, I'm pretty sure I heard that the numbers didn't include the lost Russian subscribers.

 

The numbers do include the lost Russian subscribers. They had a net loss of 200,000 users so they did offset most of the damage from pulling out of Russia. However, they are also projecting that the will lose 2 Million more in the 2nd quarter. 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Guest

[JustHereForFood]

And here I just activated Netflix for the first time few months ago. 

I don't quite see a problem with regulating sharing passwords, can't they just disable an option to log in from multiple devices at the same time? I for example want to be able to log in from two devices, but obviously wouldn't do it at the same time.

[kiddo82]

I might just be projecting but I never liked the Netflix binge model and I think that might be a factor in the subscription dip.  Maybe the shine has worn off for some people.  It lessens the shelf life of your season so instead of people talking about it for 8-10 weeks you get 2-4(?).   And I've said this before but it bears repeating, that weekly anticipation (a) drives interest (b) gives your audience a chance to breath to really take in and appreciate what they saw and (c) gives you more of a communal viewing experience and allows those who are behind to catch up.  Nothing feels like a "need to watch" when the conversation has already passed you by.  It's a "would like to watch when I get around to it."  So when I'm evaluating my expenses at the end of the month, of course I'm going to keep the $5.99 service that has the show(s) I NEED to watch and that my friends and I socialize about in real time as opposed to the more expensive service that has a bunch of shows I'll watch when I get around to it.  (Pssst I'm never getting around to it.)

 

And don't get me started on Netflix's original movies.  I don't know why, but with some notable exceptions they just feel like made for TV movies.  And not the good HBO kind.  And there's nothing inherently wrong with that, but I reached a point where I was done paying for it. 

[tessaray]

I'm not a fan of binge watching either. My life makes it hard, no big blocks of time to just park myself in front of the television.

My one single daughter will inhale a Netflix series over a weekend. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

And here I just activated Netflix for the first time few months ago. 

I don't quite see a problem with regulating sharing passwords, can't they just disable an option to log in from multiple devices at the same time? I for example want to be able to log in from two devices, but obviously wouldn't do it at the same time.

They do only allow one simultaneous stream on their basic plan. That’s the trade off for only paying $10 a month. For the other plans, only allowing one person to watch at a time wouldn’t work because it isn’t a single user service but a single household service. They can’t get away with charging $15 to $20 a month and only allowing one stream at a time. 

There is nothing wrong with trying to limit password sharing but Netflix has already done that by limiting simultaneous streams and limiting profiles. If they go any farther they will impact people who are using it correctly. 

3 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

I might just be projecting but I never liked the Netflix binge model and I think that might be a factor in the subscription dip.  Maybe the shine has worn off for some people.  It lessens the shelf life of your season so instead of people talking about it for 8-10 weeks you get 2-4(?).   And I've said this before but it bears repeating, that weekly anticipation (a) drives interest (b) gives your audience a chance to breath to really take in and appreciate what they saw and (c) gives you more of a communal viewing experience and allows those who are behind to catch up.  Nothing feels like a "need to watch" when the conversation has already passed you by.  It's a "would like to watch when I get around to it."  So when I'm evaluating my expenses at the end of the month, of course I'm going to keep the $5.99 service that has the show(s) I NEED to watch and that my friends and I socialize about in real time as opposed to the more expensive service that has a bunch of shows I'll watch when I get around to it.  (Pssst I'm never getting around to it.)

 

And don't get me started on Netflix's original movies.  I don't know why, but with some notable exceptions they just feel like made for TV movies.  And not the good HBO kind.  And there's nothing inherently wrong with that, but I reached a point where I was done paying for it. 

I completely agree. Netflix saying it is because of password sharing is bullshit. They built a model that requires constant high quality programming to make it worth while and are now under delivering on their own concept. When other media companies like Disney and WB started pulling their content to start their own services Netflix needed to compensate and they have done a poor job. Netflix seems to have decided to produce a ton of shows that they cancel after only 1-3 seasons and that is pissing of viewers. That plus the binge model with ridiculously long gaps between seasons is what is causing the decline. 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Guest

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

I don't quite see a problem with regulating sharing passwords, can't they just disable an option to log in from multiple devices at the same time? I for example want to be able to log in from two devices, but obviously wouldn't do it at the same time.

That's their current model for "control." A subscriber can choose to be able to stream/download movies or shows on 1, 2 or 4 devices at at time. 

But that's only an issue with password sharing if more than 1, 2 or 4 different devices are trying to stream at the same time.  So let's say someone has a 2 person concurrent streaming account and they've given out their password to their parents and a couple of friends.  90% of the time there probably won't be an issue.  It only becomes an issue if more than 2 people with access to that account try streaming at the same time.  The third person to try will get booted from Netflix.

One thing I guess they could do is force people to replace passwords every 3 months.  That might cut down on people who got a password at one time while visiting someone and never logged out.  You'd have to be in contact with the original account holder. 

11 minutes ago, Dani said:

Netflix seems to have decided to produce a ton of shows that they cancel after only 1-3 seasons and that is pissing of viewers. That plus the binge model with ridiculously long gaps between seasons is what is causing the decline. 

I really think it's hard to pinpoint unless they do a study.  It could just be that increasing prices overall (goods and services) has caused people to reevaluate just how often they watch a service and aren't going to carry them passively any longer.

It could be binging. It could be the fact that they don't create shows that'd hold up to weekly viewing.  It could be the fact that they cancel things too soon because they've decided their business model is on constantly increasing accounts but there are only so many people in this world.  And they don't value popular shows with their current subscriber base unless it's also increasing accounts in other parts of the world.

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

I might just be projecting but I never liked the Netflix binge model and I think that might be a factor in the subscription dip.  Maybe the shine has worn off for some people.  It lessens the shelf life of your season so instead of people talking about it for 8-10 weeks you get 2-4(?).   And I've said this before but it bears repeating, that weekly anticipation (a) drives interest (b) gives your audience a chance to breath to really take in and appreciate what they saw and (c) gives you more of a communal viewing experience and allows those who are behind to catch up.  Nothing feels like a "need to watch" when the conversation has already passed you by.  It's a "would like to watch when I get around to it."  So when I'm evaluating my expenses at the end of the month, of course I'm going to keep the $5.99 service that has the show(s) I NEED to watch and that my friends and I socialize about in real time as opposed to the more expensive service that has a bunch of shows I'll watch when I get around to it.  (Pssst I'm never getting around to it.)

 

And don't get me started on Netflix's original movies.  I don't know why, but with some notable exceptions they just feel like made for TV movies.  And not the good HBO kind.  And there's nothing inherently wrong with that, but I reached a point where I was done paying for it. 

It does lessen discussion, but I generally prefer the binge option for shows. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Irlandesa said:

I really think it's hard to pinpoint unless they do a study.  It could just be that increasing prices overall (goods and services) has caused people to reevaluate just how often they watch a service and aren't going to carry them passively any longer.

It could be binging. It could be the fact that they don't create shows that'd hold up to weekly viewing.  It could be the fact that they cancel things too soon because they've decided their business model is on constantly increasing accounts but there are only so many people in this world.  And they don't value popular shows with their current subscriber base unless it's also increasing accounts in other parts of the world.

I think it’s a combination of all of the above. Increasing prices, losing content to other services, declining quality, the binge model encouraging churn and irritation over cancellations leading to people not seeing value in the service. Blaming password sharing is passing the buck.

I tend to subscribe to Netflix for short periods of time when there is something I want to watch so I really only pay attention to the buzz around Netflix. What I am noticing lately is mostly people unhappy about various shows being canceled or the price increase and the new season of Bridgerton. The overall reaction to Bridgerton seems to be mostly negative. I will probably resubscribe when the new season of Umbrella Academy is out.

[meowmommy]

2 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

I might just be projecting but I never liked the Netflix binge model and I think that might be a factor in the subscription dip. 

They're pretty silly to do a binge model, especially for their most popular programming, if they want people to come back week after week, month after month.  I for one can't watch anything at all on a binge, which for me is anything more than one, or I am up half the night with my half-asleep head replaying and reworking everything I've seen.  That has happened to me repeatedly, and it doesn't matter what type of programming it is.

The other half of that problem is how short seasons have become.  Network shows used to run continuously from about September to April or May or so, and now some "seasons" can be as short as eight episodes.  I know that's how they snag some of the big name stars who don't want to be tied down to episodic television, but if you want people to stick with your channel, you have to offer something to watch.

We recently gave up Netflix, and the original plan was to drop it for a month, but we're in the second month now.  Asked DD if she really wanted me to bring it back at $15/month, and she said not really.  What's a little surprising is that the first time I dropped Netflix, about ten years ago, they begged me to come back, and this time, they were like, ok, fine, not another word.

As far as password sharing, not sure how they're going to combat that.  Where I live, many of my neighbors are snowbirds, so they have a second home back North.  If they're Netflix subscribers, are they going to have to pay extra to use the service when they go home for the summer?

[Bastet]

All of my access to paid streaming services comes by way of someone else's account; there are things on them I like to watch, but not enough to pay for any of them.  Netflix is the one I watch most and I still have a huge backlog of things on there I want to watch, so I'd miss it if the next price hike had my parents peacing out, but I still wouldn't pay for it -- I don't use it enough to justify that cost with how much it has gone up. 

And I heard A TON of complaining about their last price increase, from my parents, friends, and coworkers, when that had never filtered through to me before, but this time it was everywhere.  So laying this all at the feet of password sharing is ridiculous.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

One thing I guess they could do is force people to replace passwords every 3 months.  That might cut down on people who got a password at one time while visiting someone and never logged out.  You'd have to be in contact with the original account holder. 

I think it's fair to require new passwords every few months, maybe every 6 months.
Sometimes people share a password with someone who then shares a password with someone etc. 
I realize it can be difficult for some people to deal with changing passwords, but, to me, if it keeps costs down, it seems fair. 

About the binge model: It's interesting that the majority of the posts upthread do not like the binge model for the same reasons I don't. I seem to recall being pretty much alone in my anti-binge stance a few years ago, even on these boards.

Nevertheless, I understand that binging can be an affordable way to see content (signing up just long enough to binge).
And since I lost access to, for instance, HBO Max (my daughter and her husband just canceled it), I will probably wait until the end of the seasons of Barry and The Flight Attendant to sign up and do a week-long binge, then cancel. 
I will miss out on the most active discussion, especially if I wait until Perry Mason's new season is over (it doesn't begin until August).
Worse, I will probably be contributing to HBO's own cash flow issues.
IDK.
Meanwhile, it's been 2 years since the last episode of Better Call Saul aired.  I've decided that rather than signing up for AMC now, I'm going to wait another year or 2 until it's on Netflix. 
Netflix, heh, yeah. Circle of Life[time]? Kidding.
 

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, Dani said:

Blaming password sharing is passing the buck.

I don't think Netflix is blaming password sharing for the drop in subscribers.  They're looking at curbing password sharing as the solution.  Just as they're looking at offering an ad supported tier.  I want to know what happens when they simply can't grow.  Have they considered those consequences?

2 hours ago, Dani said:

The overall reaction to Bridgerton seems to be mostly negative.

The second season is the most watched English-language show (first 28 days rating) and has overall higher audience scores on Rotten Tomatoes and IMDb.  I know some people didn't like it but there's no indication that it's any less of a wildly popular hit compared to the first season.

But more importantly, it's the kind of offering that drives people to Netflix because it's unique content that can't be found elsewhere.  Period pieces are out there in abundance but adaptations of pure regency romance books?  Nope.  That publishing genre often gets ignored.

3 hours ago, meowmommy said:

The other half of that problem is how short seasons have become.  Network shows used to run continuously from about September to April or May or so, and now some "seasons" can be as short as eight episodes. 

There's a television critic who talked about about the burgeoning "crisis" or what have you in short seasons and short runs in that  part of the benefit of a long running series is that people who start as writing assistants eventually move up and learn about the process of writing episodes and writing a series. That's a negative for short runs.

A negative for short seasons, which I don't mind, is that series have become so married to the idea of a "six or ten hour movie" without consideration to telling episodic stories. Networks who had to tell 22 hour long episodes would make room for interesting side stories or arc behind the main drama to pump up the episode count.  Instead of coming off as fluff, however, they'd be interesting enough as stand alone episodes. 

Limited series or short series don't allow for that room and instead they try to tell one story over 6, 8 or 10 episodes even if their story doesn't merit that many episodes. Pacing on Netflix shows is often terrible.

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't think Netflix is blaming password sharing for the drop in subscribers.  They're looking at curbing password sharing as the solution.  Just as they're looking at offering an ad supported tier.  I want to know what happens when they simply can't grow.  Have they considered those consequences?

They mentioned password sharing 12 times in their letter to stockholders. They are definitely blaming it for their inability to continue to grow. Reading the letter it sounds like they think they have reached the point they simple can’t grow due to how well they have penetrated the market and password sharing. They did not put anywhere near enough focus on improving content in my opinion. 

38 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

The second season is the most watched English-language show (first 28 days rating) and has overall higher audience scores on Rotten Tomatoes and IMDb.  I know some people didn't like it but there's no indication that it's any less of a wildly popular hit compared to the first season.

I am just going by what I am seeing in social media. From my standpoint rotten tomatoes and IMDb are meaningless. The area of booktok that I am seeing does not make me want to watch. The overall impression of Netflix right now is a negative one. 

38 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

But more importantly, it's the kind of offering that drives people to Netflix because it's unique content that can't be found elsewhere.  Period pieces are out there in abundance but adaptations of pure regency romance books?  Nope.  That publishing genre often gets ignored.

It is a genre that is often ignored. I am just talking about why I am not watching it because I think it speaks to public perception of Netflix and not about any specific shows quality. If I kept Netflix all the time I probably would be watching because it is the type of show I like. As soon as season 2 was released I saw posts by people who have similar tastes to me talking about everything that worked and didn’t work. The things they hated were things that I hate and it seriously diminished my interest. That combined with price hike has kept me from subscribing to watch. I guess what it boils down to is I don’t have a lot of faith in Netflix at the moment and I don’t think that I am alone in that. More importantly, Bridgerton is the only show I am seeing discussed right now. I literally have no clue what other new content they are releasing.  

Edited April 24, 2022 by Guest

[Guest]

Netflix is finally going after password sharing. Here's how it's likely to work

Looks like we have an answer to how they are going to address password sharing. They aren’t going to crack down on it. They are to charge extra for each sub-account. They have already started testing this in some markets. I have so many questions about how this is going to work. 

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

A negative for short seasons, which I don't mind, is that series have become so married to the idea of a "six or ten hour movie" without consideration to telling episodic stories. Networks who had to tell 22 hour long episodes would make room for interesting side stories or arc behind the main drama to pump up the episode count.  Instead of coming off as fluff, however, they'd be interesting enough as stand alone episodes. 

Limited series or short series don't allow for that room and instead they try to tell one story over 6, 8 or 10 episodes even if their story doesn't merit that many episodes. Pacing on Netflix shows is often terrible.

YES. There's a lot of shows like that on streaming services nowadays, where they'd make for a great two-hour documentary/movie or something, but that's all the more time they need. And then the bloat of the episode running time doesn't help, either. If you want to make a movie, then just make a movie. Quit trying to turn TV series into mini movies. 

I also agree that a lot of series that are actually meant to be series, like sitcoms and some dramas, the seasons are too short. The stories barely have enough time to build before it's all over, so they're either cramming in too much too soon, or they're leaving a lot of stuff left dangling, with no guarantee that they'll get another season to expand on it. I'm not saying that every show needs to have a 22 to 24 episode season, the way many network shows do (or used to, at least, as even a lot of network series are shortening up nowadays), but I do think it wouldn't hurt some of them to expand beyond the 8 to 10 episode model a bit. 

And I agree that the weekly release method is easier in terms of creating a lot more buzz and discussion. The problem is, though, that with streaming services, not everyone may have enough money to subscribe to a service for multiple months on end in order to see the show. It might help to have more affordable options allowing people to subscribe to a service for at least a full year, so that they have more time to explore all the shows they want to see, and don't have to worry about figuring out how many months' worth of subscription they can afford. 

And I know DVDs aren't as big nowadays as they used to be, but if there's a show on a streaming service I do like, to the point where I'd want to rewatch it, it would be nice to have a physical copy of the series for me to enjoy on my own time. I don't know what kind of effect, if any, that would have on boosting streaming services' finances or prominence or whatever, mind. Just stating a personal preference. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

It might help to have more affordable options allowing people to subscribe to a service for at least a full year, so that they have more time to explore all the shows they want to see, and don't have to worry about figuring out how many months' worth of subscription they can afford. 

It depends on what is considered affordable but most of them do have a yearly subscription at a discount. I actually signed up for Disney+ using their preorder three year deal so I haven’t paid a dime since before the launch.

Netflix is one of the only ones to not have that option which I think is a mistake. 

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, Dani said:

It depends on what is considered affordable but most of them do have a yearly subscription at a discount. I actually signed up for Disney+ using their preorder three year deal so I haven’t paid a dime since before the launch.

Netflix is one of the only ones to not have that option which I think is a mistake. 

Oh, wow, I didn't realize that Disney+ had that preorder deal. That sounds nice. I'm not well-versed in most of the streaming services, the only ones I'm currently subscribed to are Paramount+ and Hulu, and I did a year deal there. But if other services do have yearly subscription offers, it'd be good to advertise those more.

And yes, the fact that Netflix doesn't have one is very odd. That would definitely help with some of their subscriber issues as well. 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Dani said:

Netflix is finally going after password sharing. Here's how it's likely to work

Looks like we have an answer to how they are going to address password sharing. They aren’t going to crack down on it. They are to charge extra for each sub-account. They have already started testing this in some markets. I have so many questions about how this is going to work. 

This language

• "They'll start with serial abusers," said LightShed Partners media analyst Rich Greenfield. "If you have 15 people using your account, it's pretty easy."

is pretty adversarial if Netflix’s goal is to cultivate customers.   
It sounds like Netflix should start with an internal audit of the effectiveness of their own employees, especially in PR. I realize LightShed Partners isn’t Netflix, but Netflix is using the LightShed Partners service and Lightshed is essentially speaking for Netflix here. And wow. Not a good look.  

Edited April 25, 2022 by shapeshifter

[Mittengirl]

I like binge-watching on streaming because I don’t want to pay for month upon month of service.  I just subscribed to BritBox and have been watching back-to-back-to-back episodes of the mysteries I like because I don’t want to pay for another month.  (Only 6.99 a month.).

I cancelled my winter sub to Netflix April 6 and the next day, and for several day after, I got an email trying to get me to resubscribe.  No sale price, though.  Offer me a deal in a few months and I may consider it.  Otherwise, I will probably wait until a few weeks into the next  season of Great British Bake Off.

If you have a library card, check out what they may offer for free.  I get access to Hoopla & Kanopy.  My tax dollars at work. 😀

Edited April 24, 2022 by Mittengirl

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

This language

• "They'll start with serial abusers," said LightShed Partners media analyst Rich Greenfield. "If you have 15 people using your account, it's pretty easy."

is pretty adversarial if Netflix’s goal is to cultivate customers.   
It sounds like Netflix should start with an internal audit of the effectiveness of their own employees, especially in PR. I realize LightShed Partners isn’t Netflix, but Netflix is using the LightShed Partners service and Lightshed is essentially speaking for Netflix here. And wow. Not a good look.  

LightShed Partners has no relationship with Netflix. They are a media analysis company. He wasn’t speaking for Netflix. 

[shapeshifter]

24 minutes ago, Dani said:

LightShed Partners has no relationship with Netflix. They are a media analysis company. He wasn’t speaking for Netflix. 

My mistake. Thanks. I edited my post a bit.

Still, Netflix will probably want to respond to the spin by Rich Greenfield of LightShed Partners that some Netflix customers are “serial abusers.”
That language may be appropriate for IT people to use in reference to users who indiscriminately share passwords to content.   
And “serial abusers” may accurately describe some Netflix customers.  
But this is not the time for Netflix to allow any subscribers to feel they are not valued by Netflix.  
Likely somer over-sharers of passwords will feel deserving of something more akin to appreciation for having recruited new Netflix subscribers by giving them a taste of the content for longer than a typical trial period, and with no strings attached and no personal information yet shared.

[Kel Varnsen]

7 hours ago, Dani said:

completely agree. Netflix saying it is because of password sharing is bullshit. They built a model that requires constant high quality programming to make it worth while and are now under delivering on their own concept. When other media companies like Disney and WB started pulling their content to start their own services Netflix needed to compensate and they have done a poor job. Netflix seems to have decided to produce a ton of shows that they cancel after only 1-3 seasons and that is pissing of viewers. That plus the binge model with ridiculously long gaps between seasons is what is causing the decline. 

Even in Canada where the options are more limited, the streaming competition has gotten crazy over the last few. Disney+ here basically has most of the Disney produced Hulu stuff. Plus a bunch of shows that were on FX like Sons of Anarchy and The Americans. If I had to pick one service only it would be hard to give up all that they have. 

As for binging, I like it when it is something I'm really into, but I also find with those long waits between seasons it makes shows super forgettable. Because if a show comes out and I watch the whole season in a week all the episodes blend together. And then if the next season takes 2 or 3 years to come out I can barely remember more than the major plot points if I am lucky.

[kiddo82]

If I was Netflix I'd experiment with a la carte premium rentals for non subscribers.  So for example you have a high profile movie coming out like the Knives Out sequel.  You advertise that for a limited time, maybe the first month of it's release, non subscribers can opt for a 48 hour rental of the movie for $20-$30.  No extra cost to subscribers.  One of three things will happen:  1, a person or family wont rent or subscribe and you lose nothing.  2, a person or family will opt to rent and you are guaranteed that $30.  3.  The person or family will subscribe to watch the movie at the cheaper subscription price and you take the gamble that they will remain on as a subscriber for the subsequent months.  (This of course is all contingent that the person or family isn't the beneficiary of password sharing or simply wont go over to a buddy's house to watch the movie.)  Part of the reason I like this idea, especially if one opts to rent the movie at the premium rate, is you can actually put a number on what a certain movie is brining in.  Yes, maybe a lot of people did really watch Red Notice, but how many of them simply watched because it was there and on a service they were already paying for?  How many of those people would have ventured out to the theater or spent extra money on it?  There is no way of knowing how much a movie or show is truly bringing in on its investment. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, kiddo82 said:

If I was Netflix I'd experiment with a la carte premium rentals for non subscribers.  So for example you have a high profile movie coming out like the Knives Out sequel.  You advertise that for a limited time, maybe the first month of it's release, non subscribers can opt for a 48 hour rental of the movie for $20-$30.  No extra cost to subscribers.  One of three things will happen:  1, a person or family wont rent or subscribe and you lose nothing.  2, a person or family will opt to rent and you are guaranteed that $30.  3.  The person or family will subscribe to watch the movie at the cheaper subscription price and you take the gamble that they will remain on as a subscriber for the subsequent months.  (This of course is all contingent that the person or family isn't the beneficiary of password sharing or simply wont go over to a buddy's house to watch the movie.)  Part of the reason I like this idea, especially if one opts to rent the movie at the premium rate, is you can actually put a number on what a certain movie is brining in.  Yes, maybe a lot of people did really watch Red Notice, but how many of them simply watched because it was there and on a service they were already paying for?  How many of those people would have ventured out to the theater or spent extra money on it?  There is no way of knowing how much a movie or show is truly bringing in on its investment. 

Why would anyone choose to pay $20-$30 to rent a movie for 2 days when you can pay $10-$20 to watch for a month? Besides anything high profile is probably getting a theatrical release like Red Notice and the Knives Out sequel. 

[kiddo82]

7 minutes ago, Dani said:

Why would anyone choose to pay $20-$30 to rent a movie for 2 days when you can pay $10-$20 to watch for a month? Besides anything high profile is probably getting a theatrical release like Red Notice and the Knives Out sequel. 

That's why you experiment with it.  Honestly, I know me and I would actually save money by paying the premium rental price because it will take me forever to unsubscribe, which is what the streamer will be counting on.  A win for them is getting the person to sign up for the service and keeping them.  And why would Netflix give Red Notice or Knives Out a theatrical release?  Their brand is exclusivity.  They will do a limited NY/LA area release for the two weeks necessary to get their movies awards eligible, but there is not motivation to do any more than that.

Edited April 25, 2022 by kiddo82

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, kiddo82 said:

That's why you experiment with it.  Honestly, I know me and I would actually save money by paying the premium rental price because it will take me forever to unsubscribe, which is what the streamer will be counting on.  And why would Netflix give Red Notice or Knives Out a theatrical release?  Their brand is exclusivity.  

That’s a question you’d have to ask Netflix because Red Notice did get a theatrical release and Knives Out is getting one. They moved to this model a few ago. My guess it was to be considered for awards.

As an aside, you can sign up for Netflix, immediately unsubscribe and still get the full month. The same is true for most streaming services so there is no reason to get stuck continuing to pay if you only want to watch one show or movie. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Guest

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, kiddo82 said:

They will do a limited NY/LA area release for the two weeks necessary to get their movies awards eligible, but there is not motivation to do any more than that.

It’s gone beyond that. Red Notice was still a limited release but Cinemark also showed it and my local regional chain theaters were both showing it and I am not in NY or LA. In the past Netflix’s releases were limited by the theaters instance on an exclusive theatrical window. That has changed post-Covid and more theaters are willing to show movies without the exclusivity guarantee. Regal and AMC are still refusing to budge for the moment but Knives Out should open on similar scale to Red Notice (750 theaters).

Edited April 25, 2022 by Guest

[meowmommy]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

Why would anyone choose to pay $20-$30 to rent a movie for 2 days when you can pay $10-$20 to watch for a month?

You can buy the disc for less and then watch it to your heart's content, forever.

[shapeshifter]

On 4/21/2022 at 11:52 AM, proserpina65 said:

I pretty much always got a deep discount on HBO every time I called to activate it

Do you activate and pay for HBO independently of any cable service? I’m wondering if I do sign up for HBO to see a season of a show that already ran its first episode tonight (Sunday) whether I’d be able to still watch that episode or not?

[Peace 47]

4 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

As for binging, I like it when it is something I'm really into, but I also find with those long waits between seasons it makes shows super forgettable. Because if a show comes out and I watch the whole season in a week all the episodes blend together. And then if the next season takes 2 or 3 years to come out I can barely remember more than the major plot points if I am lucky.

I think the long gap between seasons is my personal biggest problem with prestige streaming TV, but I think that problem is independent of whether the show was available to binge or was only available week-to-week.  We’re talking about shows that have 6-10 episode seasons, and then are gone for years.  I do get that limited work commitments are the way to attract talent, and some of these high-concept sci-fi shows need extensive time and money to insert SFX because they’re not, say, using cardboard to portray a rocky cave anymore, but when I have to wait more than one year for a new season, it definitely tempers my enthusiasm for the return of all but my most beloved of shows.

I remember the buzzy TV shows of the early Aughts, like my personal favorite, Alias, or one that more can probably relate to, Lost, and there was chatter and discussion and dissection and speculation all through the hiatus that kept going continuously through to the next premiere.  Now, you’ve got a show like Loki that did air week-to-week and had some juicy possibilities to speculate on (that will almost certainly disappoint, lol), but what can drive a conversation for the 1.5+ years between seasons that it is likely to be?  (Season 1 ended Summer 2021 and Season 2 isn’t even in production, possibly not even in pre-production.)  

Re: the subscriber drop at Netflix, the only thing I know for sure is that no one with very young children dropped it because “Cocomelon” is like catnip to little kids.  My nephews will go into an absolute trance broken only by a laugh at something funny onscreen whenever that is on the TV.  😆

Edited April 25, 2022 by Peace 47

[Irlandesa]

7 hours ago, Dani said:

They mentioned password sharing 12 times in their letter to stockholders.

I feel like we're talking about different things.  Yes, they blame password sharing when it comes to the difficulties they're having with revenue growth but I thought we were talking about why people are leaving Netflix. They're not blaming password sharing when it comes to why people dropped their Netflix accounts.

7 hours ago, Dani said:

I am just going by what I am seeing in social media. From my standpoint rotten tomatoes and IMDb are meaningless. The area of booktok that I am seeing does not make me want to watch. 

I only brought in IMDb and Rotten Tomatoes to address the claim that there's an overall negative impression of Season 2 precisely because social media is such a curated experience and I didn't want to rely on where I go where it has been pretty well received.

3 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

If I was Netflix I'd experiment with a la carte premium rentals for non subscribers.  So for example you have a high profile movie coming out like the Knives Out sequel.  You advertise that for a limited time, maybe the first month of it's release, non subscribers can opt for a 48 hour rental of the movie for $20-$30. 

I know Disney+ did this but they've seemed to really pull back quite a bit.

 

47 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I’m wondering if I do sign up for HBO to see a season of a show that already ran its first episode tonight (Sunday) whether I’d be able to still watch that episode or not?

Yes.  Once you're an HBO subscriber, you also get access to HBO Max and they have all current HBO shows there as well as Max content. 

This reminds me of something else I heard about what might be going on at Netflix, especially in comparison to HBO Max.  Netflix releases so much content that the next thing is coming right away whereas HBO Max releases less content but it stays visible for longer because it's not being pushed out by something new.

Speaking of account sharing, I think YouTube TV is pretty smart about it.  They build it into the model and even encourage people to set up their own accounts/profiles to be attached to a main account (up to 6.)  I wonder how long they'll do that.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Do you activate and pay for HBO independently of any cable service?

Is it possible to subscribe to HBO independently? I thought that HBO Max was the only option outside of cable, satellite or a live tv streaming service like YouTube Live. 

 

1 hour ago, Peace 47 said:

Re: the subscriber drop at Netflix, the only thing I know for sure is that no one with very young children dropped it because “Cocomelon” is like catnip to little kids.  My nephews will go into an absolute trance broken only by a laugh at something funny onscreen whenever that is on the TV.  😆

Cocomelon isn’t a Netflix exclusive. It’s started on YouTube and you can still watch it there. It’s also on Amazon Prime and Hulu. 

49 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I feel like we're talking about different things.  Yes, they blame password sharing when it comes to the difficulties they're having with revenue growth but I thought we were talking about why people are leaving Netflix. They're not blaming password sharing when it comes to why people dropped their Netflix accounts.

Probably. When I said that blaming password sharing is passing the buck I meant that they are focusing on the lack of revenue growth rather than the larger problem of people dropping their accounts. They appear to be focusing on increasing revenue rather than on making people want to stay. It shows a lack of willingness to address the real problem by shifting the blame on to a relatively minor issue and penalizing their own customers in the process. By primarily talking about password sharing they create a perception that the are blaming it for the problem even if they never explicitly state it. 

This goes back to my point about Bridgeton in that the truth is often secondary to what is perceived. As you said social media is highly curated so when I see a focus on the things that are wrong about the season it impacts my perception and the fact that audiences generally loved it really doesn’t matter. I am still not going to watch. Netflix has a negative perception problem and they are making it worse. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Guest

[Irlandesa]

22 minutes ago, Dani said:

They appear to be focusing on increasing revenue rather than on making people want to stay.

I read the shareholder letter once you mentioned and they do have a line that mentions increasing quality content on page 3.

I'm sure you're reassured now. ;)

[GaT]

3 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

I think the long gap between seasons is my personal biggest problem with prestige streaming TV, but I think that problem is independent of whether the show was available to binge or was only available week-to-week.  We’re talking about shows that have 6-10 episode seasons, and then are gone for years.  I do get that limited work commitments are the way to attract talent, and some of these high-concept sci-fi shows need extensive time and money to insert SFX because they’re not, say, using cardboard to portray a rocky cave anymore, but when I have to wait more than one year for a new season, it definitely tempers my enthusiasm for the return of all but my most beloved of shows.

I remember the buzzy TV shows of the early Aughts, like my personal favorite, Alias, or one that more can probably relate to, Lost, and there was chatter and discussion and dissection and speculation all through the hiatus that kept going continuously through to the next premiere.  Now, you’ve got a show like Loki that did air week-to-week and had some juicy possibilities to speculate on (that will almost certainly disappoint, lol), but what can drive a conversation for the 1.5+ years between seasons that it is likely to be?  (Season 1 ended Summer 2021 and Season 2 isn’t even in production, possibly not even in pre-production.)

I don't think you can count the wait between seasons for the last 2 years. Covid really screwed up filming movies & TV shows, & there's nothing anyone can do about it. There are still delays from covid, & who knows when, or if, they will ever end.

Edited April 25, 2022 by GaT

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, GaT said:

I don't think you can count the wait between seasons for the last 2 years. Covid really screwed up filming movies & TV shows, & there's nothing anyone can do about it. There are still delays from covid, & who knows when, or if, they will ever end.

It was a problem long before Covid.

[Kel Varnsen]

5 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

I think the long gap between seasons is my personal biggest problem with prestige streaming TV, but I think that problem is independent of whether the show was available to binge or was only available week-to-week

That is probably true. I just find it worse for shows that you can binge. Because instead of it being spread out over possibly months and the episodes being kind of distinct, you can watch a season in a weekend and the episodes all blend together and become less memorable. And since you watch it in a weekend it means it will be an even longer wait before the next season comes out.

[Cloud9Shopper]

18 hours ago, tessaray said:

I'm not a fan of binge watching either. My life makes it hard, no big blocks of time to just park myself in front of the television.

My one single daughter will inhale a Netflix series over a weekend. 

It took me three years to watch ER on Hulu part because of this and yet I know people blowing through multiple seasons or the whole 15-season series within months. I also generally get bored after 3-4 episodes of something and need to switch it up. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Well, I binge watched the series 1883 over the weekend and I think I got my money’s worth from Paramount+.   I don’t think there’s much else I want to see on it right now though.  

[peachmangosteen]

15 hours ago, Dani said:

Netflix is finally going after password sharing. Here's how it's likely to work

Looks like we have an answer to how they are going to address password sharing. They aren’t going to crack down on it. They are to charge extra for each sub-account. They have already started testing this in some markets. I have so many questions about how this is going to work. 

When this happens, I likely will get rid of Netflix. And it's been the only one I keep month after month.

[meowmommy]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Do you activate and pay for HBO independently of any cable service? I’m wondering if I do sign up for HBO to see a season of a show that already ran its first episode tonight (Sunday) whether I’d be able to still watch that episode or not?

I had HBO Max independently, and then I got it through my cable service.  HBO asked me if I wanted to merge my accounts, and I said yes.  I can either watch it through the HBO Max app on my Roku, through the HBO Max app within my cable service, or through the cable guide channel for HBO. 

Any episode that's already dropped will be available through the app, and likely available on-demand through the cable channel.  They retain the episodes indefinitely, except for shows they don't hold the rights to any more.  I still wish they would rerun Dream On, but I expect the licensing fees for the embedded video clips would bankrupt them.

[Irlandesa]

HBO Max is also one of the few streaming channels that lets you watch "live."  So if it's an HBO channel show, like Barry, you can immediately start watching it on HBO Max the minute it starts airing on broadcast TV. You don't have to wait a day until it goes live on the streaming site like I think you have to do with many Hulu shows that air on network TV.

[kiddo82]

16 hours ago, meowmommy said:

You can buy the disc for less and then watch it to your heart's content, forever.

I am in agreement with that and yet people were still willing to pay monthly in perpetuity simply to watch The Office.