S03.E02: Sara

[JenMD]

Loved all the comments. Did not particularly like the episode.  SA and EBR brought their A game.

 

Thought it was telling that when EBR showed up to accept the job with Ray she was wearing brown was not wearing glasses and had her hair straight again.  Wonder if her clothes will stay dark.

It was olive green and I think it was more muted than usual because I think she went to QC from the funeral, you can just barely see the dress under her coat (why the change in hair and glasses, who knows).

 

 

I guess I'm in the minority with my lack of shock from Sara's death. Actually, I found the process the team had to go through after her death (what to do with the body, how to deal with the fact that she cannot be burried legaly)

 

But they can bury her legally.  She was alive and well to all of Starling City for the last 10 eps of the season.  There was no reason she couldn't have been treated like a real person instead of a ghost.

[dtissagirl]

The only reason we're supposed to buy it is because of the comics and because we know who Laurel is supposed to become, but otherwise it isn't supported by anything else

 

 

This. My complete inability to connect with Laurel in this episode *at all* boils down to the fact that she is now the bonafide plot-driven character of the show. Her entire future narrative banks on her one day becoming a superhero, and every single thing she did in this episode was related to that, and not to grief. To me, it feels like the fact that Sara died is almost irrelevant to the writers. It was the means to achieve an end. Because Laurel's supposed to be Second Time Around Canary sometime in the future no matter what.

 

This is a particular kind of bad writing that makes me crazy, because it's not about a character reacting to the events that just happened -- it's Laurel reacting in pre-determined ways defined by her future storyline. And I just can't relate to this kind of writing AT ALL.

[Ceylon5]

Ray is hiring her for her IT skills. He was clear about that. 

 

Big point in his favour!  I'm still mad at Oliver for the whole EA debacle.  Felicity is a computer genius - why would anyone hire her in any other capacity (*glares at Oliver*)?

[Gwen-Stacys]

But the larger problem is that the show has been telling us for two years now that Laurel is going to Black Canary, and on her very first outing as Black Canary she was unable to use a gun or for that matter doing anything impressive/useful.

 

 

Yeah, I shouldn't have generalized. My mom and dad were both in law enforcement, and they taught me the ins and outs of gun safety and how to handle a gun (when I was old enough). I can't shoot worth a damn though, and don't have any desire to learn. Still, like I wrote - it's canon in this show that Laurel knows her way around a gun. Someone taught her how to shoot, and she has great aim, since she managed to kill a guy while at the height of her addiction. In more level-headed times, I think she'd have noticed, but I can handwave it.

To both of these comments I still say (and repeat what I said earlier), if you are not familiar with a certain gun (IE it is a gun that you have trained with specifically) it isn't out of the realm of possibility for you to pick it up and not notice the desparity in weight between when it's loaded and when it isn't. Had they shown her actively check the clip and then proceed to shoot anyway then I'd agree with you. But they established that she was being driven on pure emotion and not exactly thinking rationally. Maybe she just grabbed the same gun she took out, slammed the clip back in without even looking at it, and took off. (Fan wank? Sure. But this show also fanwanks people's hacking abilities to the nth degree among other things.)

[bethy]

I think I would be better able to deal with Laurel's grief manifesting as rage and bitchiness if we had any indication that KC or the EPs saw her "butting heads" with everyone and bossing Felicity around and trying to kill innocent people as something other than showing that she's "tough" and "strong" and on her journey.  If when Laurel had said something about almost killing that guy, Oliver's reaction had been, "Yes you did and let me tell you from experience that killing in revenge is not a good path to be on," instead of "But you didn't," when SHE WOULD HAVE IF HE HADN'T TAKEN THE BULLETS OUT OF THE GUN, I think I could handle the Laurel scenes with more equanimity.  But as it is, I just can't stand any scene she's in.

[Primetimer]

It's a shame about Sara, huh? The only way to get over her is to engage in ludicrous motorcycle-based stunt fighting.

Read the story

[Tangerine]

@wonderwall: Can we please send your entire post and points about how Laurel fails as a human being to the writers and EPs? Because they need to read it.

[Writing Wrongs]

What does the new arrow title card mean? What is the design about?

[writersblock51]

A few more follow up comments after reflection and reading others' responses here...

 

Felicity back at QC  - I don't have a problem with it as it played out so far, whereas I had been side eyeing the notion when we first heard it was going to happen.  I think there are a few things at play here - she's safe in assuming that Ray isn't putting her back on the tech floor to help with employee's desktops.  She knows he knows that she hacks.  So clearly, IMO, he has something bigger set up.  My first career was in IT - there is a massive range of what can be done in that industry.  It's not just sitting and coding or fixing someone else's tech problems.   

 

Furthermore, she's coming back on her own terms.  That's huge.  Oliver turned her into his EA against her wishes and better judgement.  Ray hadn't even told her which job he had in mind for her - I think she knows she's going to have a big voice in what she does.

 

Finally, the company under Ray has a far better chance to survive now.  Oliver said as much last week, before he was dealing with the aftermath of Sara's death.  Felicity has consistently cared about the company and it's role as a big employer in Starling City.   She probably thinks she's doing her part to help.  And, I hope, she sees this as a means to keep an eye on the company from the inside - out of curiousity or other motives, we don't know yet.  I think that aspect is icing in the cake.

 

Laurel and the gun - I think she should have known to check it.  It would be nice to know how she knew precisely where it was stored in the lair, too.  She has shown that she knows how to use a handgun as well as a shotgun.  It the gun being empty hadn't turned out to be 'a thing' later on, it wouldn't have mattered. But it did and it certainly didn't help her look like a superhero in the making.

 

Laurel and her destiny - the show is limited in how they can develop her because of her destiny.  We know the ending, much like we knew the possibilities of Roy's (though his has significantly less agency so the limitations aren't as great), and now everything Laurel does feels like it has to be connected to that purpose.  Rather than developing her motive, her skill set, it all feels rushed.  And contrived.  And neither of those conditions seem to be viable for Katie Cassidy to excel in.

 

And, make no mistake, Katie Cassidy must excel in this endeavor - the show has a lot riding on her being able to convince legions of skeptic fans & critics that casting her and killing Tommy and then Sara was worth it.  2 fan favorites are now gone, leaving a lot of resentment at her feet.   She needs to be able to handle all the nuances of being physically and emotionally matched for the role.  Her take on the Black Canary role is going to have to be different, yet similiar, to CL's. 

 

It still bugs me mightily that Quentin and Dinah weren't told about Sara's death.  Laurel made the decision to rob both her parents of the chance to finally lay their daughter to rest.  It was not her choice to make.  It is completely separate from my concerns about her turning into BC, too.  I blame this on the writers and the EPs more than Laurel.  I liked that Laurel picked up on the wrongness of the funeral conditions.  What I wanted to hear was someone pointing out to her (and the writers!) "This is what you chose!"

 

Someone had asked what was the point of having Tommy in the flashback.  I think it was to emphasize to Oliver, in that time frame, that he had to chose who he needed to be at to survive.  Maseo had told him last episode that a man can't live by 2 names, that Oliver needs to make a choice.  I think Tommy's appearance was to force Oliver to make that choice.    Having Tommy be the target was well done, I think.  Oliver pulling down the cloth that had hid his face, while he stood behind Tommy, really struck me as heartbreaking.  it would be, it turns out, the first time he lied to Tommy - yet another indication of the life he was forced to choose. 

 

I'm glad that Maseo worked with him to pull it off, too.  I think the only highlight of Oliver's Hong Kong adventure will be his tentative relationship with Maseo.  Of course, we haven't actually met Katana yet so.....................

 

I forgot to add to my original review how glad I was that Oliver handled Roy's admission about Thea like a grown up. He looked like he was barely hanging on at that point but it shows growth. And yay that Roy told Oliver the entire truth.

 

All of the spilling of truth tea among the Team Arrow members is a key aspect, I hope, of how they will handle the ups and downs of this season.  Small but important stuff like this only help them. 

 

And wow, the camera blocking between Oliver and Roy emphasized either how much taller Oliver is or how short Roy is.  I know Felicity is small compared to Oliver but he seemed unusally tall in this episode.  Which was ironic when Komodo said to him, "I thought you'd be taller."  Because I'd been thinking the exact opposite by that point, hahahahaha

 

I really hope we see Komodo return.  And do we know if he's working with the LoA or was an LoA rogue?  I was confused by the exposition about him in the flurry of lair discussions.

[apinknightmare]

To both of these comments I still say (and repeat what I said earlier), if you are not familiar with a certain gun (IE it is a gun that you have trained with specifically) it isn't out of the realm of possibility for you to pick it up and not notice the desparity in weight between when it's loaded and when it isn't. Had they shown her actively check the clip and then proceed to shoot anyway then I'd agree with you. But they established that she was being driven on pure emotion and not exactly thinking rationally. Maybe she just grabbed the same gun she took out, slammed the clip back in without even looking at it, and took off. (Fan wank? Sure. But this show also fanwanks people's hacking abilities to the nth degree among other things.)

 

Yeah, we're actually agreeing here. In my original post I wrote that I'd hand wave it as being grief-related, since under normal circumstances I believe she'd check to see if the gun was loaded and/or notice that it wasn't. Over half of this show is fanwank material - I'm hardly going to be nitpicky over this when I'm asked to believe that she somehow managed to carry her dead sister down a full flight of stairs without messing up her outfit. :)

[tv echo]

This was one of the stupidest episodes - if not the stupidest episode - of Arrow ever!  A huge disappointment after "The Calm" (well, the first 48 minutes of "The Calm").  Were the EPs so distracted by their shiny new toy, The Flash, that they weren't even trying for consistency and realism? 

 

The beginning scene with Sara's dead body on the slab in the foundry should have been gutwrenching.  Instead, like others here, I was dumbfounded at the ridiculousness of the show trying to make me believe that Laurel(!) managed to carry Sara's dead body from the alley to the Arrowcave (unless Laurel has been taking secret doses of mirakuru).  Sara probably weighs more than Laurel.  Then the episode ends with Team Arrow burying Sara secretly in her old grave with its headstone that says she died in 2007.  Why is her headstone even still there when there was that big party last season welcoming Sara back from the dead?  The secrecy of Sara's death made no sense whatsoever, considering the whole city knew Sara was alive.  When Laurel finished her wailing in the alley, she should've called her father, the police captain(!), or Oliver.  Sara's death would be out in the open.  She, as the blonde vigilante who saved people last season, could be hailed as a hero without revealing her ties to the League of Assassins.  Then she could be properly buried in a new grave with a new, correct headstone.  The stupidity of this episode makes it a big FAIL for me.

 

As expected, tons of Laurel.  She and Oliver had several emotional scenes, including two hugs, but I still felt little warmth and no chemistry between KC and SA.  I would've found Laurel's grief more believable if I hadn't watched last season.  But the EPs are certainly trying hard to do major retconning on her character - that throwaway line about how when Laurel thought Sara had died on The Gambit, she could only feel anger, felt directed to the viewers who complained about the lack of sisterly love shown by Laurel when Sara turned up alive.  Laurel's little Sara story about the stuffed toy whale?porpoise?, and the later scene with Laurel clutching that toy (while eyeing the jacket), just seemed like overkill.  Instead of feeling touched, I felt like rolling my eyes.  Of course, Laurel reverts to form - she gets past the police guard to see the injured Kelso by threatening the lowly police officers with her father, their boss, the police captain.  What a surprise.  Does Laurel have any ethics as a DA?  And when Lance finds out, he just chastises Laurel for putting herself in danger, not for her name-dropping him in order to bully his subordinates.

 

Felicity is a human being.  She's not a Mary Sue and can be bitchy on occasion. She's still feeling residual bitterness over Oliver's raising her hopes that they could have a relationship and then abruptly dashing her hopes even while kissing her.  However, Felicity realizes when she is being bitchy and apologizes for it.  Laurel doesn't seem to recognize when she's being bitchy and never apologizes for it.  (And before anyone asks, why am I bringing up Laurel here?  Because bitchiness has been a Laurel trait for the past two seasons.)

 

SA and EBR portray grief really, really well.  Oliver and Felicity reacted to Sara's death in different ways but still completely in character.  Oliver shut down again emotionally, but not as successfully as before.  His emotions leaked out to the two people he most trusts - to Felicity when he said that he saw himself dead in the future, and later to Diggle when he said he didn't want to die down there in the foundry.  These moments were especially poignant and heartbreaking because you can tell Oliver feels trapped in a way.  Felicity's reaction was that life is precious and she wants a life outside the Arrowcave.  She is pro-active and accepts a job with Ray Palmer - likely doing all sorts of geeky stuff that will utilize her MIT-trained skills.  Oh, Oliver!  Go, Felicity!

 

Diggle names his baby girl Sara (eye roll).  At this point, I hope that little Sara Diggle grows up and becomes the Black Canary.

Edited October 16, 2014 by tv echo

[ostentatious]

This was one of the stupidest episodes - if not the stupidest episode - of Arrow ever!  A huge disappointment after "The Calm" (well, the first 48 Diggle names his baby girl Sara (eye roll).  At this point, I hope that little Sara Diggle grows up and becomes the Black Canary.

 

Oh! And then when Connor becomes the Green Arrow....!!!

 

Headcanon established.

 

Okay so, when Oliver was jousting, Laurel kept insisting to Felicity that she needed to see.

 

See what? Why? What did Laurel need to see?

Edited October 16, 2014 by thecatbastet

[KenyaJ]

Thought it was telling that when EBR showed up to accept the job with Ray she was wearing brown was not wearing glasses and had her hair straight again.  Wonder if her clothes will stay dark.

 

She still had her glasses. But I liked her outfit and her hair being down. Like someone said upthread (sorry I can't remember who), it matched the assertive step she was taking in her life.

 

Really, the worst thing about Laurel being around...I hate to use the word "shoehorn" but Laurel comes in and everyone has to start acting OOC, because otherwise she couldn't be there. Oliver has always become an asshole in her presence, so at least he felt realistic. Yeah, a bigger problem for me than the fact that he ignored the woman he's supposed to love when she was grieving a friend is that he used her as a release valve for his frustration again. Not okay. Less okay than her reacting to him being a jackass to her, for which she apologized. Did he? Can't remember.

 

Yeah, right after she pointed out what an ass he was being, he apologized. I liked the symmetry with her "feelings" comment and subsequent apology to him.

Edited October 16, 2014 by KenyaJ

[tv echo]

Okay so, when Oliver was jousting, Laurel kept insisting to Felicity that she needed to see.

 

See what? Why? What did Laurel need to see?

She wanted to see Oliver, so Felicity turned on the surveillance camera feeds so she could see the video of what was happening with Oliver in the field.

[dtissagirl]

Diggle names his baby girl Sara (eye roll).  At this point, I hope that little Sara Diggle grows up and becomes the Black Canary.

 

Ding ding ding. Winner comment, @tv-echo!

[slayer2]

Thea!!!! Epic intro! Honestly the most interesting part of the show for me was Laurel, Laurel and her Dad, seeing baby Sara with Diggle and Thea. (Who knew?) The rest? Don't care. Although I was a little irritated at Felicity telling Ollie how to grieve and that he had no feelings. Uh, when you first met Sara and for a good month after you were basically snarking her out of existence. Don't tell Ollie how to feel about her or grieve for his on-off girlfriend and basically best friend and partner. Thanks.

On another note, I can't wait to see what they gave in store for Thea. I haven't seen the previews but I hope next episode is major Corto Maltese, it'll be nice to see Thea transition from whiny victim to owning her self and her own power and being self-reliant. Willa can be so much fun to watch (she was amazing on Gossip Girl) a real force of nature so I can't wait to see them write to her strengths and give her something worthwhile to do. I'm actually looking forward to the inevitable meet-up with Roy too. I hope she keeps her alter-ego identity a secret from Ollie so she can still emotionally support him about Sara.

I just feel so bad for Ollie, his life has been so shit,W I can related to the emotional rut he's in and I hope they don't consider him to be like Angel paying his penance. Ollie wasn't that bad a guy by any stretch of the imagination and he deserves some happiness.

Oh Sara, I hoped they'd take your body to Lazarus Pit. Maybe Nyssa will still find it. Oh Nyssa, please hurry back.

Edited October 16, 2014 by slayer2

[KirkB]

Okay, where to begin?

 

Put me on the long list of people whose reaction to the others walking in on Laurel and Sara in the foundry was being pulled completely out of the scene. "How the hell did she get her down there all by herself?" I'd have a hard time wrapping my head around that if Sara had been killed in the alley behind Verdant.

 

Everyone's reaction to Sara's death was different, as it should be. Not everyone grieves the same, and it bugs me when someone tells me I'm not sad enough. People also don't always think clearly when someone they cared about dies peacefully in their sleep. It's a little more jarring when the loved one has been shot with arrows and thrown off a roof. So Oliver or Felicity snapping or saying rude/cruel things? I'll give them some leeway.

 

KC doing her damndest to be emotional and sad. I'll give her A for effort. D for results. The way she cries looks...off to me, somehow. I'm not sure what it is. Now her anger on the other hand, that works. I legitimately bought her being pissed at the guy in the hospital. As for the gun, someone upthread said that as the daughter of a cop she ought to be more well versed in gun use. Maybe, but Quentin's a smart guy and he might have decided keeping Laurel as far away from guns as possible is a better idea for all concerned.

 

Speaking of Quentin, I liked Laurel deciding she needed to tell her father about Sara. Of course she did. It's his daughter! Then the ridiculously contrived timing of his medicinal alarm going off at that exact moment? Come on show. Yes, Quentin has a bad heart. Yes, finding out Sara is dead again (for real this time) might very well do him harm. But letting him continue believing she is 'safely' off somewhere, killing people alongside her girlfriend, just so he can find out the truth at a more dramatically appropriate time (like perhaps when said girlfriend comes looking for her) isn't going to do him any favors either.

 

How in the world was there was supposed to be any drama about whether or not Komodo killed Sara, when the EP's already told us the search for her killer was going to drive the first half of the season? Okay, for the average viewer who doesn't come to boards like this and thus may not have that info, it may have been more of an issue. But did anyone really expect them to find her killer that quick? An episode later?

 

Thea! Willa and John are going to have so much fun together. And frankly, so am I watching them.

 

Ray didn't creep me out like he did last episode. I think it has to do with the smarminess got toned down really quick when he realized Felicity was in some kind of pain. He doesn't know the woman besides her resume and whatever he might have picked up from QC but he takes look at her and recognizes something was hurting her and offered to help. Even Oliver doesn't always do that.

 

Oliver said the League doesn't target their own. Which is nonsense considering the assassins who came after Sara last season. They were ready to kill her if she refused to come back in spite of her being the beloved. I somehow doubt (though I could obviously be wrong) that it was Ra's himself who killed her, though he could have ordered it done to make a point, perhaps TO Nyssa. And there is no way it was Nyssa. But I could easily see it being Talia, Nyssa's sister and Ra's other daughter. Some people have said it sounded like a modified woman's voice. The question then, would be was she doing it on her own (in which case she would have to answer to Nyssa and Ra's) or on Ra's order (in which case she would only have to answer to Nyssa). Siding when Team Arrow against her family and the League would offer some great drama for Nyssa.

Edited October 16, 2014 by KirkB

[slayer2]

The Ray/Roy thing is already confusing me. Oh dear, I hope they make snarky meta-reference to it.

Edited October 16, 2014 by slayer2

[Carrie Ann]

Oliver said the League doesn't target their own. Which is nonsense considering the assassins who came after Sara last season. They were ready to kill her if she refused to come back in spite of her being the beloved.

 

Yes, this made absolutely no sense to me. Of course they would come after her, if she'd betrayed them or gone AWOL again. Silly reason to disregard the most obvious answer.

[slayer2]

I see that Oliver is back to being a dick again. That didn't take long.

Not happy to see Laurel in the Arrow cave giving people orders ("put him on speaker" and "I need to see what's happening.") Not happy to see her at all, actually. Too much fucking Laurel. Please go away.

Felicity crying while waiting for the elevator really got to me :( At least Ray understood enough to back off at that point.

Oh, that was hilarious when Oliver wanted to go to the morgue and find a Tommy doppelganger. In Hong Kong. He is such an idiot sometimes.

When Felicity told Oliver, "I am sorry if I have feelings, but if you did too...I'm sorry that was mean" I imagined how completely bitchy that would have sounded coming out of Laurel's mouth.

Hardly any significant Felicity/Oliver interaction in this one. That sucks. Is this what I get to look forward to with Laurel's increased presence?

Felicity looked absolutely gorgeous at the end when she went to talk to Ray Palmer. Oliver is an idiot.

To summarize: Fuck off, Laurel.

IMO it sounded entirely bitchy coming out of Felicity's mouth. I hate it when people tell other people how to grieve. Ollie's grieving standards for someone he's known since childhood were not up to par for the perfect Felicity. Gah! Did not appreciate it. The shine on Felicity is wearing off really fast for me. I hope Thea eats up some of her screentime. Also, where's Sin? Shouldn't somebody alert her to this. I hope that Ollie or Laurel or Diggle or Roy or Felicity or all of them look after her. Sara promised. :( Edited October 16, 2014 by slayer2

[apinknightmare]

IMO it sounded entirely bitchy coming out of Felicity's mouth. I hate it when people tell other people how to grieve. Ollie's grieving standards for someone he's known since childhood were not up to par for the perfect Felicity.

 

Or maybe she was concerned that he was shutting down and not dealing with it as he has a tendency to do? Everyone does grieve in their own way, but Oliver's had a lot piled on him in the last few months, and while her method of calling him out on it was bitchy and I'm glad she apologized, it came from a well-meaning place.

[Nanrad]

Olliver bottles up. He thinks he's being strong, but he's just being miserable and making other people around him even more so. But, a fun observation: each time Laurel went for a hug, he reacted as if he was trying to keep her as far away from his body as possible. Even when he patted her head, it was terribly distant. As if I was watching to shop manequins hugging, with their joints not well oiled.

 

And that's one of the things that took me out of the scene each time: it was obvious KC was going in for a hug and Oliver was going through the motions of hugging her, but not into comforting her. SA was distant and that's because he doesn't connect with Laurvier as a ship or even a friendship. And KC just keeps overselling it...with an unwilling partner.

 

Another thing: I think this Sara story line happened to fast, which is why Felicity which featured a lot. The writers are still trying to juggle the Ray story line AND the romance/friendship/partnership of Oliver and Felicity. Why couldn't they've have waited a couple of episodes or something?

 

That Gambit line pissed me off...ugh.

[dtissagirl]

And that's one of the things that took me out of the scene each time: it was obvious KC was going in for a hug and Oliver was going through the motions of hugging her, but not into comforting her. SA was distant and that's because he doesn't connect with Laurvier as a ship or even a friendship. And KC just keeps overselling it...with an unwilling partner.

 

I always have a feeling that nobody on the planet is more acutely aware of the lack of chemistry blackhole of suckitude than Amell himself. And it's like since he can't do anything about it, it only feeds the blackhole even more.

[KenyaJ]

Thea!!!! Epic intro! Honestly the most interesting part of the show for me was Laurel, Laurel and her Dad, seeing baby Sara with Diggle and Thea. (Who knew?) The rest? Don't care. Although I was a little irritated at Felicity telling Ollie how to grieve and that he had no feelings. Uh, when you first met Sara and for a good month after you were basically snarking her out of existence. Don't tell Ollie how to feel about her or grieve for his on-off girlfriend and basically best friend and partner. Thanks.

 

Imagine if she'd welcomed her home by throwing barware at her? Yeah, this is me not really giving a damn about Laurel's "grief."

[Guest]

IMO it sounded entirely bitchy coming out of Felicity's mouth. I hate it when people tell other people how to grieve. Ollie's grieving standards for someone he's known since childhood were not up to par for the perfect Felicity. Gah! Did not appreciate it. The shine on Felicity is wearing off really fast for me. I hope Thea eats up some of her screentime.

 

It was bitchy but wasn't that the point? It was entirely the wrong thing to say but people say things in the heat of the moment, especially when they are wrapped up in grief. And yeah, I don't like it when people think the only way to grieve is by crying but IMO Felicity was coming from a place of love. The man she loved was slowly shutting down and she doesn't want that to happen and was trying to get a reaction out of him. Sometimes when you're grieving and you see someone closed off and seemingly unemotional you just want to see if they are feeling the same way - if they are feeling anything - and you lash out. You lash out at those you love the most. I thought it was a pretty human reaction tbh and I like that they are showing Felicity isn't perfect. She makes mistakes too.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Guest

[Orion]

 Although I was a little irritated at Felicity telling Ollie how to grieve and that he had no feelings. Uh, when you first met Sara and for a good month after you were basically snarking her out of existence. Don't tell Ollie how to feel about her or grieve for his on-off girlfriend and basically best friend and partner. Thanks..

 

Can you remember any lines specific to when you felt Felicity was snarking Sara for a month? I remember her telling Sara that she was glad she wasn't dead and accepting the fact that Sara was a killer with the we all had clubs we wished we hadn't joined then later, of course, when Felicity felt jealous of Sara's skills she didn't take it out on her and she did take a bullet for Sara. I don't remember any snarking but maybe I'm forgetting something?

[blixie]

 

I think this Sara story line happened to fast, which is why Felicity which featured a lot.

 

Yup, the AV Club review really nailed it:

 

 

This is where Arrow has to do the best it can with the realities of asymmetrical character development: The show has one character who has a strong connection to Sara and one character who is fleshed-out enough to do some serious emotional heavy-lifting, but they aren’t the same person.

 

Felicity is the character the audience actually cares about so even though it didn't make a ton of sense for her to be this profoundly grief stricken by Sara's death, however shocking and horrible, so we spent a LOT of time on her feelings at least as much as we spent on Laurel's and Laurel's feelings and actions were hamstrung by the fact Sara is only dead to make her Black Canary, so she had to spend at least as much time proving she's a legit Vengeance Demon as she did proving she is a grieving sister.

[Chaser]

I would expand that to all of Team Arrow. Objectively it makes perfect sense that Laurel takes lead in this episode because she is Sara's sister. However, Its hard to grieve Sara thru Laurel because there is a lack of connection with Laurel and the audience. The moments between Oliver and Laurel, while decently written, failed to hit home because the audience doesn't see any depth between them. The only moments that felt genuine in my opinion where between Oliver and Felicity/Diggle.

 

The whole episode just fall flat. It makes me bitter.

[SmallScreenDiva]

My thoughts about this episode were so jumbled, but morning brought a little bit of clarity. I did not hate this episode, but neither did I love it nor even like it. There are three parts I love, but I doubt I'll be watching them over and over again because they are just too painful. You probably already know which: Oliver and Felicity foundry scene, Ray and Felicity by the elevators (not the entire scene, just that part when Ray drops the "smarminess" and sees Felicity's grief, and the "I don't want to die here" scene.

 

There are other heartbreaking scenes: When Capt. Lance calls the Arrow and he says "You look like someone peed in your cornflakes." Then he gives Oliver the file and says something about "dropping bodies." I almost sobbed. Then later, Felicity and Roy are cleaning up Sara and, I guess, gathering evidence, and Felicity gives probably the only eulogy for Sara. However much I hate "Time of Death," I always appreciated that the show never made Felicity jealous of Sara over Oliver. Here, too, she says she was jealous of Sara whom she called an "Amazonian warrior" because she thought her "invincible."

 

Like many of you, the opening scene just jolted me and the questions just poured out. Beyond the obvious "how the heck was she able to carry Sara's body all the way from wherever down to the lair," I also had "No one so her lugging a dead body around town? She has the security code for the lair?" I guess I can hand wave that the foundry is in such an isolated area of the Glades that nobody would see a woman in a pantsuit dragging the body of a woman with three arrows still sticking out of her chest. I need a cable to suspend my disbelief, though.

 

Except for the three seasons I mentioned at the beginning, this ep didn't quite have the emotional punch for me. It may be because I couldn't quite connect with Laurel, the "main" character of this ep. Why? Because of S2. Because the show didn't really develop the bond between the sisters. A few scenes here and there and a hug last ep wasn't enough to fix how badly the writers botched this sibling relationship. Also, like someone upthread, all I could see was the actress acting; I couldn't feel the actual grief and anger. (BTW, I found it interesting there were two sorta competing hashtags on Twitter last night: #WhoKilledSaraLance [which was tweeted by either the writers or CW Arrow, can't remember exactly which] and #TheRiseOfLaurelLance [tweeted by KC's fans and later used by KC herself] Neither trended.)

 

My initial reaction to Laurel being at the lair again was "Nooooooo!" But I thought there was a different tone in her voice this time. When she said, "I need to see what's happening," it was almost pleading. Almost makes up for the "Put him on speaker" order. Almost. I did like the contrast between Laurel's and Felicity's reactions to Oliver fall off his bike. Laurel is all "Ollie, get up!" and go after the bad guy, while Felicity's main concern was whether he was OK.

 

The part with Oliver dismissing the thought somebody from the League of Assassins could have targeted Sara was ludicrous because, hello, that's exactly what happened in "League of Assassins." They DO target their own. Sara. Malcolm Merlyn who is still on run from Ra's al Ghul. I swear, sometimes it feels like these writers don't watch their own show.

 

I was about to go off on Roy "hacking" the FBI database when I realized Felicity didn't say hack, she said "accessing." Considering how much Felicity probably uses that database, she's probably already created shortcuts to get in it. So I guess that's another thing I'll hand wave in this ep.

 

The motorcycle "jousting" was both ludicrous and awesome. As well as the flying out of windows bit with Komodo and the Arrow. Thought it was funny that Roy got left behind. He and Oliver probably haven't gotten to "jumping out of windows" in the how-to-be-a-superhero curriculum. Speaking of Komodo, I guess we're going to see him again? He didn't seem to be particularly well-used or developed here.

[NumberCruncher]

It was bitchy but wasn't that the point? It was entirely the wrong thing to say but people say things in the heat of the moment, especially when they are wrapped up in grief. And yeah, I don't like it when people think the only way to grieve is by crying but IMO Felicity was coming from a place of love. The man she loved was slowly shutting down and she doesn't want that to happen and was trying to get a reaction out of him. Sometimes when you're grieving and you see someone closed off and seemingly unemotional you just want to see if they are feeling the same way - if they are feeling anything - and you lash out. You lash out at those you love the most. I thought it was a pretty human reaction tbh and I like that they are showing Felicity isn't perfect. She makes mistakes too.

 

This.  It was pretty necessary that she say it because although cruel, it was true.  Oliver ALWAYS defaults to closed-off robot mode when something bad/tragic happens.  Sure that may be how he grieves, but the show has gone out of its way to demonstrate that his go-to reaction NEVER leads to anything positive or constructive.  I view Felicity's jab as trying to bitchslap Oliver out of his bad habit.  She has abided his mopiness in the past by trying to comfort and support him but even she has finally had enough.  Good for her.  Also, I find it funny that one of the biggest complaints I've heard up until this point was that Felicity is too nice and too perfect so I have to laugh that when she finally does say something bitchy and angry people get upset.  Personally, I was cheering her on because she was dropping a badly needed truth bomb.  Plus it's not like she didn't immediately realize she was too harsh because she apologized immediately.

 

Can you remember any lines specific to when you felt Felicity was snarking Sara for a month? I remember her telling Sara that she was glad she wasn't dead and accepting the fact that Sara was a killer with the we all had clubs we wished we hadn't joined then later, of course, when Felicity felt jealous of Sara's skills she didn't take it out on her and she did take a bullet for Sara. I don't remember any snarking but maybe I'm forgetting something?

 

Yeah I don't remember any snarking going on between her and Sara either.   I'd be interested to know as well.

 

Now that I've had a night to sleep on it, I realize what has been bothering me about the new season (and this episode was yet another example)--the writers/producers are trying to accomplish too much and aren't giving the storylines or the characters a chance to breathe.  I'm getting some serious whiplash after watching each episode.  For instance, I've made it no secret that I was willing to give Laurel a chance to catch my interest this season, but I think I would have perhaps been more invested in the character during this episode if she hadn't been all over the place.  We essentially got one scene of her grieving before she was suddenly hell-bent on vengeance and assaulting/murdering men who weren't even responsible for Sara's death. Clue to the writers: if you want me to care about Laurel's motivations, you need to sell me on how deeply her sister's murder is affecting her. Also, if you want me to see the wisdom in Laurel becoming a badass vigilante, you need to show me she's emotionally capable of being one. Right now all I see is someone recklessly flying off the handle, looking incredibly foolish while doing it, and nearly killing innocent people in the process. The pacing problem isn't solely limited to Laurel though, but since this was her episode, I included it here. Suffice it to say, I have a feeling I'll be carrying my gripes about the issue over to the bitterness thread quite a bit this season. (Sigh)

Edited October 16, 2014 by NumberCruncher

[KenyaJ]

I would expand that to all of Team Arrow. Objectively it makes perfect sense that Laurel takes lead in this episode because she is Sara's sister. However, Its hard to grieve Sara thru Laurel because there is a lack of connection with Laurel and the audience. The moments between Oliver and Laurel, while decently written, failed to hit home because the audience doesn't see any depth between them. The only moments that felt genuine in my opinion where between Oliver and Felicity/Diggle.

 

Not just a lack of connection with Laurel and the audience, but a lack of connection between Laurel and Sara. People in this forum have previously and eloquently expressed all the problems in the way their relationship had been portrayed on the show, but it's hard to reconcile "I'm smiling like an idiot because you've decided to go back to the LOA" with "It's not fair, we just got her back." The show cast an intentionally negative light on their relationship before having them bond so Sara could die, and as a result I'm not invested in Laurel's pain. In fact, if I had to name the reactions to Sara's death I was most interested in seeing, Laurel's would only be seventh on my list (after Quentin, Oliver, Nyssa, Felicity, Diggle, and Sin). 

[slayer2]

Or maybe she was concerned that he was shutting down and not dealing with it as he has a tendency to do? Everyone does grieve in their own way, but Oliver's had a lot piled on him in the last few months, and while her method of calling him out on it was bitchy and I'm glad she apologized, it came from a well-meaning place.

I see what you're saying. Makes good sense, I just get my back up over Oliver because I feel like (like you said) they put the dude through too much. I almost wish they'd do a FoTW so he could get some relief from the endless parade of tragedies. That "I don't want to die down here." line was the saddest thing I think I've ever heard on this show.

[bethy]

Right now all I see is someone recklessly flying off the handle, looking incredibly foolish while doing it, and nearly killing innocent people in the process.

 

 

This right here. They seem to be in such a hurry to get to what they consider the good stuff, they're leaving those of us who aren't so sure in the dust.  

[hogwash]

I liked this episode. No one got shafted. The story moved along really well. Though I thought the Tommy flashback would be more significant.

I liked the contrast between Ray and Oliver's reactions to Felicity's grief. They were both great scenes. Ray doesn't know Felicity very well and (presumably) has no idea what happened but came off very genuine. I actually liked him, which is good cause I didn't like him at all in the premiere or in any of his other scenes during this episode.

Did the confrontation between Laurel/Oliver and Komodo come off like a skit to anyone else? Something was very off about it. Komodo was fine but I have no idea what the hell Oliver and Laurel were supposed to be doing.

Laurel was better in 301 but I only found her grating in a couple of the scenes. Also, I think I'm way too scarred from their s01 hookup and the unexpected Oliver/Sara hookup to be OK with Oliver and Laurel hugging that many times in one episode. I may have visibly flinched the first time it happened. You can't just spring that on us SHOW! I've barely gotten past the point of seeing every interaction between them as proof that they were happening. Lauriver better stay DEAD!

And, of course, THEA!! I'm so excited! I'm going to completely ignore that she called Malcolm dad and the 'Thea killed Sara' theories and focus on what's important. THEA(!!!) is getting the badass training/storyline she deserves and probably could (and hopefully will) kick Roy's butt. I'm so happy!

[dtissagirl]

My initial reaction to Laurel being at the lair again was "Nooooooo!" But I thought there was a different tone in her voice this time. When she said, "I need to see what's happening," it was almost pleading. Almost makes up for the "Put him on speaker" order. Almost. I did like the contrast between Laurel's and Felicity's reactions to Oliver fall off his bike. Laurel is all "Ollie, get up!" and go after the bad guy, while Felicity's main concern was whether he was OK.

 

The only reason Laurel was at the foundry in this scene was so she could learn the dude in the car accident existed -- it's the entire point of her asking Felicity for the camera feeds.

 

But what I got from this scene was Felicity being über competent at her job while Laurel just stood there not knowing where to stand [there was a moment Laurel had to get out of the way so Felicity could slide her chair towards a different screen]. And not gonna lie, that just made me point and laugh at her narrative uselessness.

 

Now that I've had a night to sleep on it, I realize what has been bothering me about the new season (and this episode was yet another example)--the writers/producers are trying to accomplish too much and aren't giving the storylines or the characters a chance to breathe. I'm getting some serious whiplash after watching each episode.

 

From the moment 3x01 started 'til the end of 3x02 it's been what, 5-6 days tops? These people haven't slept in a week while being piled on with a lifetime worth of traumas. No wonder all of their life-changing decisions are so super dumb.

Edited October 16, 2014 by dancingnancy

[TVHappy9463]

It's a shame that they had to kill off Sara so Laurel could become Black Canary, I know it is cannon but Katie Cassidy is so annoying, and clearly has no connection with the other actors when she is on screen.  She is absolutely the weakest link in the show. I would totally be able to suspend disbelief if the show somehow figured out how to make her have an accident and when the bandages come off she looks exactly like Caity Loitz. 

The rest of the episode was great, each character's level of grief was appropriate to how they have been written, Oliver silent pain, Felicity all emotion and Diggle right in the middle.  

Really liking the addition of Brandon Routh, lots of anvils last night, possible Felicity paring, possible big bad.  

Looking for forward to next week.  

[apinknightmare]

I see what you're saying. Makes good sense, I just get my back up over Oliver because I feel like (like you said) they put the dude through too much. I almost wish they'd do a FoTW so he could get some relief from the endless parade of tragedies. That "I don't want to die down here." line was the saddest thing I think I've ever heard on this show.

Yeah, I think she just lashed out at him as a way of imploring him to feel something. Because she's seen him do this time and again, and it's never good. And yeah, poor Oliver. He does some incredibly stupid things, but I'm rooting for him. Enough is enough. And I agree about the "I don't want to die down here" line. It was perfect and poignant and SA really knocked it out of the park.

[Chaser]

I will say this: As many scenes as Oliver and Laurel had in this episode, as many emotional scenes as they had, I never picked up on any hint of an Oliver and Laurel romance. I was quite relieved about that because with all of KC's interviews, I was seriously concerned.

[Password]

I could genuinely see the difference in Oliver when he comforted Laurel and when he talked to Felicity. There wasn't anything romantic with Laurel because, at the end of the day, who is going to comfort her?

OK that is it. Did ANYONE think Ray, before the sweet moment, came across as someone who uses their money and power to get what they want? Tumblr is mostly positive about him but I just cannot get over the buying Felicity's company so she works for him indirectly. Agh please, I loved that scene but if the stalker, smarminess isn't rectified I'm going to have sincerious problems.

[KenyaJ]

Clue to the writers: if you want me to care about Laurel's motivations, you need to sell me on how deeply her sister's murder is affecting her. 

 

Yes, this. I think the sisterly relationship we saw on screen sucked, but if Laurel had mentioned feeling guilty that they hadn't had a closer relationship, I would have responded more positively to her scenes, I think.

 

I would totally be able to suspend disbelief if the show somehow figured out how to make her have an accident and when the bandages come off she looks exactly like Caity Loitz.

 

Scoot over and let me join you.

 

ETA:

OK that is it. Did ANYONE think Ray, before the sweet moment, came across as someone who uses their money and power to get what they want? Tumblr is mostly positive about him but I just cannot get over the buying Felicity's company so she works for him indirectly. Agh please, I loved that scene but if the stalker, smarminess isn't rectified I'm going to have sincerious problems.

 

I'm hopeful that now that he's gotten what he wanted, he'll dial it down a bit and act like a normal human being. I think his character has promise, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed (I know) that the writers can find the right balance with him.

Edited October 16, 2014 by KenyaJ

[slayer2]

apinknightmare He really did, and there were some really nice moments in the show buy I'm not sure why the Tommy flashbacks were there? It really pulled me out of everything. Sara flashbacks would have been more appropriate, I don't need a Tommy gets nearly killed by Waller flashback to get that Oliver shuts down over horrible circumstances in his life. I also didn't need to see yet another thing the poor guy has to pay for nor did I want a reason to dislike Waller. Why couldn't they just be frenemies like Sinbad and that evil princess who held him captive. Gah! Why show?

I'm also not buying that Thea killed Sara. She's a brat for sure but she's not evil and her will is too strong to succumb to Jedi mind tricks. She'd never kill someone Ollie loved. I'll go on record with that, unless of course she didn't know it was Sara but I doubt Thea would go arrows blazing without all the facts, she's no drone. I'm glad she's got someone in her family who's solely fixed on only her. Maybe now she'll stop whining and I'll get to see her true personality (which looks as though it may be pretty badass).

I'll tell you one thing this episode did do wonderfully though...motivate me. I need to hit the gym like a vending machine that stole my potato chips. No more slacking.

Edited October 16, 2014 by slayer2

[Chaser]

I'm interested in Ray and Felicity's storyline. I really want to know what his interest in her is all about, there has to be so much more there.

 

I'm still against them being a serious thing. I don't see it all. I like there chemistry and banter, but no to romance.

 

BR is walking a line with him for sure. Creepy and Charming. Entitled for sure. He really does think he is flattering her. I personally find it entertaining as long as Felicity never stops rolling her eyes at him.

[NumberCruncher]

OK that is it. Did ANYONE think Ray, before the sweet moment, came across as someone who uses their money and power to get what they want? Tumblr is mostly positive about him but I just cannot get over the buying Felicity's company so she works for him indirectly. Agh please, I loved that scene but if the stalker, smarminess isn't rectified I'm going to have sincerious problems.

Yeah, in a shocking turn of events, I've actually been pleasantly surprised by Brandon Routh's acting choices on the show. Anyone who knows me is aware that I've absolutely loathed his acting in the past, so for me, that's HUGE. That being said, I dislike Ray...a lot. For the very reasons you mentioned. It sends a terrible message to have a smart, competent female character like Felicity first rebuff an egotistical male character who has demonstrated predatory behavior towards her, then willingly go work for him because she's fed up with another man who broke her heart. Ugh, just NO.

Edited October 16, 2014 by NumberCruncher

[Chaser]

Did Felicity question why he was so interested in her working for him that he spent all that money?

 

I know she was going through a hard time, but I'm thinking its a good question.

[Password]

It sends a terrible message to have a smart, competent female character like Felicity first rebuff an egotistical male character who has demonstrated predatory behavior towards her, then willingly go work for him because she's fed up with another man who broke her heart. Ugh, just NO.

 

It bothered me immensely. It definitely seemed, the more I think about it and watch it, like she's so fed up with Oliver she just made that decision. I would love to know her reasoning because she was very much against it. Now she's carpe diem, YOLO, you snooze you lose.

[Guest]

I could genuinely see the difference in Oliver when he comforted Laurel and when he talked to Felicity. There wasn't anything romantic with Laurel because, at the end of the day, who is going to comfort her?

OK that is it. Did ANYONE think Ray, before the sweet moment, came across as someone who uses their money and power to get what they want? Tumblr is mostly positive about him but I just cannot get over the buying Felicity's company so she works for him indirectly. Agh please, I loved that scene but if the stalker, smarminess isn't rectified I'm going to have sincerious problems.

 

Same. I didn't get any romantic undertones/implications from O/L at all. He had to be the one to comfort her because no one else knew Laurel (or Sara) the way Oliver did. I understood that.

 

I disliked Ray immensely. Buying the company so she would be forced to work for him was so grossly manipulative it worries me that people can't see that. They should have just left it as him bothering her with job offers but using his money/power turned me off completely. I have no interest in seeing them two work together right now. And IMO BR is a pretty wooden actor. I didn't feel this amazing chemistry between them either.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

It bothered me immensely. It definitely seemed, the more I think about it and watch it, like she's so fed up with Oliver she just made that decision. I would love to know her reasoning because she was very much against it. Now she's carpe diem, YOLO, you snooze you lose.

 

I'm probably in the minority, but it didn't really bother me? She took that crappy Buy More job to be flexible for her Arrowing (why else would she say she wasn't looking for another job?), so I saw it less about her turning to Ray because she was pissed at Oliver and more about realizing that she's coasting along in life not living up to her potential, at a job she's miserable at. Sara's death opened her eyes to the fact that her life could be over at any time, why not be happy? She's not happy professionally, and Ray is handing her an interesting job and a ton of money on a silver platter. Why not take a chance and grab it? What's the worst that could happen? She knows first hand he may or may not be up to something, and that he's a little skeezy, so she's going into it with her eyes open. Maybe that's part of the reason she IS going into it, because SHE wants to find out if he's up to something (and if she can get paid for it, why not?).

 

Plus, after the events of the last ep, I can see how she would think it's good to get a break from Oliver. He is-by virtue of her committing herself his mission-her life. And he just stood there and told her that this thing she's committed to helping him with is going to end with him being dead. It's good for her to get a break, and I see it as being all about healthy choices for her, not about Oliver or Ray.

Edited October 16, 2014 by apinknightmare

[hogwash]

I wasn't sure if I should respond in the relationship thread or here, so sorry if I picked the wrong thread. I definitely don't see Lauriver happening again and I didn't see anything romantic about the hugs. But that's the rational side of me. The irrational side of me doesn't can't to see them that close to each other without thinking about the s01 hookup, which I never saw coming, and the weird hugs Laurel gave Oliver after learning his identity.

Ok, back to Felicity in 302. I get the feeling that the breakup with Oliver and everything with Sara's murder forces Felicity to realize how isolated being a part of Team Arrow makes her. Everything with the exception of Laurel--Roy canvassing/sidekicking, Diggle using ARGUS resources, Felicity searching through databases, Oliver going after Komodo--feels the same. But it's not. Felicity seems like only one who really shows that it bothers her or brings even it up. Sara's dead and her parents have no idea and it's unlikely that they'll ever know the full story. She doesn't even get a proper burial (YAY! Laurel actually makes a good point). That doesn't end with the whole bury her in her old grave thing. They can barely take the time to mourn for her. Everyone (including Sara's sister) is on mission. Outside of that, Diggle has his own life , Roy exists, Oliver refuses to be an option. The only person who reaches out to her is a smarmy dick she hates. And he (presumably) has no clue why she's sad and it's all she can do to not break down in front of him. It's a lot to take. It forces her to reevaluate.

What I don't get is why this leads to her accepting a job from said smarmy dick under circumstances suspiciously similar to 202. Maybe she goes for it because presumptuous dick #2 seems to appreciate her skill set? Going from a secretary for a crap CEO (sorry Oliver!) to a sales associate at a Best Buy knockoff must suck. Maybe to her, it's better than having nothing outside of Team Arrow? To me, it's ugh, NO, WhY?!

[NumberCruncher]

I'm probably in the minority, but it didn't really bother me? She took that crappy Buy More job to be flexible for her Arrowing (why else would she say she wasn't looking for another job?), so I saw it less about her turning to Ray because she was pissed at Oliver and more about realizing that she's coasting along in life not living up to her potential, at a job she's miserable at. Sara's death opened her eyes to the fact that her life could be over at any time, why not be happy? She's not happy professionally, and Ray is handing her an interesting job and a ton of money on a silver platter. Why not take a chance and grab it? What's the worst that could happen? She knows first hand he may or may not be up to something, and that he's a little skeezy, so she's going into it with her eyes open. Maybe that's part of the reason she IS going into it, because SHE wants to find out if he's up to something (and if she can get paid for it, why not?).

 

Plus, after the events of the last ep, I can see how she would think it's good to get a break from Oliver. He is-by virtue of her committing herself his mission-her life. And he just stood there and told her that this thing she's committed to helping him with is going to end with him being dead. It's good for her to get a break, and I see it as being all about healthy choices for her, not about Oliver or Ray.

 

I guess for me it's not so much that she's taking charge of her life.  I applaud her for doing that, but why does it have to be with a (IMO) problematic character like Ray?  Obviously they're doing it for contrived plot purposes because he's in control of QC, but the writers did consciously write him as a stalker whom she chooses to align herself with as she takes ownership of her career/life path.  They even gave Felicity multiple lines pointing him out as a stalker.  Now they expect me to buy that the first person she turns to after decides not to work in the Arrow cave is her stalker.  Another "WTF?" moment for me, but clearly I'm in the minority, so...

Edited October 16, 2014 by NumberCruncher

[calliope1975]

Not just a lack of connection with Laurel and the audience, but a lack of connection between Laurel and Sara. People in this forum have previously and eloquently expressed all the problems in the way their relationship had been portrayed on the show, but it's hard to reconcile "I'm smiling like an idiot because you've decided to go back to the LOA" with "It's not fair, we just got her back." The show cast an intentionally negative light on their relationship before having them bond so Sara could die, and as a result I'm not invested in Laurel's pain. In fact, if I had to name the reactions to Sara's death I was most interested in seeing, Laurel's would only be seventh on my list (after Quentin, Oliver, Nyssa, Felicity, Diggle, and Sin). 

 

Yep. I don't believe Sara and Laurel were close sisters, and one or two conversations isn't going to cut it. That scene of Laurel gleefully sending off Sara with the people who recently tried to murder her killed any sense of a bond I might have believed they had. Maybe if the director had told KC to tone it down, that scene could have been really heartfelt for Laurel. But they didn't, and one conversation after Sara being away for 5 months isn't going to sell it either. 

 

How much more poignant would it have been if Sin had found her? The sister she created by bond not blood. The girl she shared at least part of her LoA time with and felt comfortable enough to not lie to. That would have been heartbreaking. What we got? Not so much for me.