Beth: You're going to miss me when I'm gone...

[Pete Martell]

I don't buy the manpain conspiracy. Daryl's actions and reactions were appropriate based on his relationship to Beth. Maggie breaking down over Beth's death is appropriate based on her relationship. About time. When Daryl barely reacted to Carol's banishment, there was some uproar, not because we just wanted to see manpain, but because their relationship warranted more reaction.

 

The only situation I find that might fit a manpain conspiracy theory is Tyrese's pain about Karen's death. But in that situation the manpain bugged because it was out of proportion to the relationship.

 

I just don't see how Daryl killing Dawn in Beth's name is any more offensive than the group killing termites in Bob's name. 

 

For me the problem is that the relationship was created in large part for this reason. Just so we'd see Daryl upset and avenging her and all the rest. In that sense it wasn't about Beth at all. It was never about Beth. We saw Beth on her own with Daryl, we saw Daryl (and Carol) getting the bulk of the searching for her/worrying about her, at the expense of other characters, like Maggie.

 

You could say that Bob was killed to further Sasha's storyline, but even then, Bob got several scenes to say goodbye on his own terms, in his own voice. 

 

I'm not tearing the floorboards in anger. I just think that complaints of misogyny, in this instance, have some validity. I don't think the show hates women or had it out for Emily Kinney. I just object to the way this was handled.

WOW, just wow. This woman is 29 years old, what is the target audience for her song? 12 year olds?

 

So it's sexist and mysoginistic that her character was killed off on a TV show, but it's OK for her to sing a song about her goal of marrying a rockstar and living her life in his shadow. Pathetic.

 

To be fair to Emily, I don't think she has ever accused the show of misogyny or sexism.

[Pete Martell]

I don't see it that way at all.  Prior to the "relationship" with Daryl, Beth was three things and three things only: Herschel's daughter, Maggie's sister, and Judith's babysitter.  Oh yeah, and four - that girl who sang long songs sometimes.  She didn't have a "story".  The time with Daryl gave her a story.  It established her in a non-familial, non-custodial relationship.  It made her real.  It showed what she had to offer.  And then she died... as have many characters before her of both sexes and with backstories of various depth and potential.   Her ability to reach the heart of Daryl was both surprising and a real credit to her as a person.  She went deeper even than Carol.  Her death wasn't about his pain but certainly adds to it.  Daryl cried for his brother as well.  In very simplistic terms, it says something to have someone cry for you when you are gone and it says something that you're being gone has a lasting effect on another character.  I still don't see the misogyny.  Lori's death was hard on Rick and Carl.  But Andrea's death was hard on Michonne.  Herschel's death was hard on everybody.  Rick has mourned as long and as hard for Shane as he did for Lori.  Rick and Carl had many tears for a supposedly lost Judith.  Daryl fell to the ground in tears for Merle and cried in Beth's arms for HER father.  I don't see a set up that is fueled by sexism.  What I see in a show like this, is that SOMEONE will inevitably be the next to fall - male, female, young, old, strong, weak and the true testament of who they were when they were alive is how much they are missed when they aren't. 

 

One other thing - I never thought of Beth as a "woman".  To me, Beth was a child, like Carl, and her role, like Carl's, was primarily to spur the strength of his or her respective protector.  Could you see a scene with Rick if he loses Carl?  He'd promptly kill/gut all the cops and wards in the hospital.  Carry out Carl's body.  Roll around on the ground for days moaning.  Bite the jugular or machete every human he encounters.  Have in depth conversations with the Sherrif's hat.  Run around hugging child zombies, screaming "Carul!!"  It would be a hot mess - worse than Morgan.  Carl gives Rick purpose, and until otherwise replaced, Beth did that for Daryl. 

 

The showrunners have already warned us that this show will never be about a big happy family, sitting around being big and happy.  It's an examination of how to go on in the midst of never ending suffering.

 

If Beth's story was created and ended because of Daryl, that's where I see it as somewhat misogynist. I just wanted her life and death to be on her own terms. I think there were ways to tinker with the ending that would have let this happen. For one, having her be the one to kill Dawn would have went a ways. 

 

When Carol was banished last season, I was relieved that when we next saw her, her story wasn't about how Daryl felt, or Daryl trying to find her, and was instead about her own feelings, her own regrets and strengths and choices. 

 

That's mostly what I wanted to see for Beth, even if it ended in her death. And the material she got in the hospital was about her, but her last moments and the heavy Daryl focus in her last season muddy it a little bit.

 

I realize many fans only ever cared about her because of Daryl, and we needed to see Daryl and other characters react. I guess I just didn't care for how this aspect of her story was handled.

[Milaxx]

For me the problem is that the relationship was created in large part for this reason. Just so we'd see Daryl upset and avenging her and all the rest. In that sense it wasn't about Beth at all. It was never about Beth. We saw Beth on her own with Daryl, we saw Daryl (and Carol) getting the bulk of the searching for her/worrying about her, at the expense of other characters, like Maggie.

 

You could say that Bob was killed to further Sasha's storyline, but even then, Bob got several scenes to say goodbye on his own terms, in his own voice. 

 

I'm not tearing the floorboards in anger. I just think that complaints of misogyny, in this instance, have some validity. I don't think the show hates women or had it out for Emily Kinney. I just object to the way this was handled.

 

To be fair to Emily, I don't think she has ever accused the show of misogyny or sexism.

Honestly I think all the deaths are designed to make use see them as family. The individual groupings are just to see the characters as people and not just some random like Karen was.  So we get Sasha/Bob/Tyreese, Carol/Darryl, even Maggie & Glenn going off with Abe/Tara/Rosita/Eugene was an attempt to make them less cartoon characters and more as people. Hence getting Abe's backstory Tara telling Eugene she won't tell, Maggie taking care of Eugene (and in a way Abe). Even the stupid preacher being saved by Michonne and Carl. It broadened who they are as people, and drew them together so when Rick says, this is his family. It really is hs family. They've decided to stick together as a unit in order to survive. That's their hope and humanity. 

 

I just don't see how Daryl killing Dawn in Beth's name is any more offensive than the group killing termites in Bob's name.

 

Touche and I agree 100%. It goes back to my theory they are family. They all mourned Bob and they will all mourn Beth.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Milaxx

[GreyBunny]

I thought the whole hospital arc was dumb.  Dawn and her henchmen needed to be more threatening; I didn't believe the hold she had over the rest of the staff even if they were weak, were more fearful of the outside world than the goons inside, or had some variation of Stockholm Syndrome. 

 

If Beth's death needed a tweak, then instead of a stabbing with kindergartner scissors, Beth could have given some righteous speech about how it's wrong for Dawn to hold Noah hostage, asking the wards if they want to be prisoners for the rest of their lives, blah-de-blah, Fight the Power!, ¡Viva la Revolución!...and then when a ruckus is started with Woman Cop #2 inciting others to take Beth's side, Dawn shows off how tough she thinks she is by shooting Beth, and then Sasha shoots Dawn. 

 

Then Sasha carries out Beth's body and, despite her injuries, Carol throws a weeping Daryl over her shoulder and carries him out like a sack of potatoes, because she can because she's awesome. 

 

There.  Beth gets her big speech, it's an all girl-power ending, and Beth the redshirt is dispensed with as planned.

Edited December 10, 2014 by GreyBunny

[kikismom]

 , she didn't recoil from it and ultimately drained that festering wound and affirmed his manhood.

 

I've never heard it described quite that way before.

 

 

Yeesh. 

 

I had thought that EK was immature but I had no idea how emotionally stunted she really was.  Danai is not much older than she is and she's trying to bring attention to the problem of human trafficking, Lauren is about the same age as Emily and she can present herself like an adult.  Emily does...this?  EK's dumber than a bag of hammers.  No wonder the Twilight crowd likes her so much.

 

Paul Newman once said that acting is like newsprint; some of it always rubs off on you. I wonder if playing a teenager for several years has made EK become adolescent in her own personality.

Or was it the egg before the chicken---did they cast her because she came off as so immature?

 

That song sounds like a parody that was written for SNL or MAD magazine.

[NoWillToResist]

When Carol was banished last season, I was relieved that when we next saw her, her story wasn't about how Daryl felt, or Daryl trying to find her, and was instead about her own feelings, her own regrets and strengths and choices. 

 

That's mostly what I wanted to see for Beth, even if it ended in her death. And the material she got in the hospital was about her, but her last moments and the heavy Daryl focus in her last season muddy it a little bit..

 

Daryl couldn't even start to find Carol, much like he couldn't start to search for Beth...it was only when he saw the car with the cross that he got motivated. Last season, had they run into some people who said that they'd spotted a grey-haired woman near x place, I'm pretty sure Daryl would have hopped on his bike to look for her.

 

It could have been much worse for us Re: Beth...

Beth could have whined about missing Daryl. She could have sat on her ass and hoped for rescue. I think TPTB were trying to give her something non-Daryl related to do before killing her off. The problem, as I see it, is that I don't think EK could really handle any heavy lifting acting-wise, so I suspect we got the best TPTB were willing to task her with. IMO she didn't even deliver with what little they gave her.

 

I'm trying to imagine putting Beth in Carol's place for the storyline in the Grove and I can't stop shuddering in horror.

[kikismom]

I'm trying to imagine putting Beth in Carol's place for the storyline in the Grove and I can't stop shuddering in horror.

Agreed. Beth would probably sit Lizzie down and sing the Phoebe Buffay song: Things You Shouldn't Do.

 

(Then Lizzie would dress out Beth and Judith and nail them to boards and the last shot would be Tyreese running down the railroad tracks screaming with Lizzie in hot pursuit.)

[Morrigan2575]

When Carol was banished last season, I was relieved that when we next saw her, her story wasn't about how Daryl felt, or Daryl trying to find her, and was instead about her own feelings, her own regrets and strengths and choices.

 

Isn't that exactly what they did with Beth?  Next time the audience sees Beth it's all about Beth, nothing to do with Daryl or the gang.  Hell until the last 5 minutes of the MSF Beth was still all about Beth.  With Carol, her first few episodes back (post banishment) were about Carol, especially The Grove but as soon as she's reunited with the gang, her stuff becomes about the group.  Tyreese saying the others will accept her back after what happened with Mika/Lizzie, Darly pressing Carol to talk and open up, Michonne and Rick arguing over who gets to save Carol because they both owe her.

 

I agree with the poster who said this isn't about Daryl's manpain, it's about the group/family, pulling together and falling apart.  Daryl wasn't the only one crying or upset when Beth died, Carol and Rick were crying too.  In the backhalf we'll most likely see how Beth's death effects Maggie and by extension, Glenn as well as Daryl, Rick, Carol, Noah and Carl who had a major crush on Beth.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[editorgrrl]

If Beth's story was created and ended because of Daryl, that's where I see it as somewhat misogynist. I just wanted her life and death to be on her own terms. I think there were ways to tinker with the ending that would have let this happen. For one, having her be the one to kill Dawn would have went a ways.

The only characters I can think of who got this were Jim, Dr. Jenner, and Jacqui—all during season 1. I understand that Beth struck a chord with some viewers, but she went out like 99.9% of the characters on this show.

[Pete Martell]

I think characters like Bob, and to a degree Lori and Andrea, also had this - they didn't want to die, but their final moments were about them. Beth's were not.

[Mindymoo]

Yeesh. 

 

I had thought that EK was immature but I had no idea how emotionally stunted she really was.  Danai is not much older than she is and she's trying to bring attention to the problem of human trafficking, Lauren is about the same age as Emily and she can present herself like an adult.  Emily does...this?  EK's dumber than a bag of hammers.  No wonder the Twilight crowd likes her so much.

And don't forget Laurie Holden who, while older than EK, was part of Operation Underground Railroad and helped bring down a child sex trafficking ring in Columbia, rescuing 55 children in the process.

[Ocean Chick]

Beth's final moments were about her - someone who couldn't allow Noah to go back to slavehood.  Daryl was nonexistent until after Beth died, when he shot Dawn.  And then we saw Daryl, Rick and Carol ALL crying.  And still crying when they exited the hospital and Maggie started screaming.  And I still have hope that the majority of mourning will be done by Maggie in the 5B premiere, even though the others will be sad as well.  Beth as killed so ALL of them can mourn another dead child.

 

And damn, I wish I hadn't read the lyrics to that song.  I could feel my brain cells dying as it went on.  So she wants to marry a rock star and sit around and wait for him to finish with his groupies and hope he'll let her use his equipment to record her "little poems"?  That's some ambition right there, that is.

[NoWillToResist]

I think characters like Bob, and to a degree Lori and Andrea, also had this - they didn't want to die, but their final moments were about them. Beth's were not.

 

Bob and Andrea knew their time was almost up, so they had the luxury of time to put their ducks somewhat in a row beforehand. Beth did not have any advance notice of her impending death (beyond the fact that Dawn had a loaded gun pointed in her direction). However, before she was shot, Beth had objected to Noah being left behind, hugged him and confronted Dawn. She didn't even acknowledge CDB, so I don't see how the moments leading up to her death were not about Beth.

 

Once the person is dead, it's all about the grief of the people around them, IMO.

 

 

So she wants to marry a rock star and sit around and wait for him to finish with his groupies

 

But she's not worried about groupies getting their claws into her baby because apparently he's only interested in people who are "Twitter Verified". Now whether that means she's cool with him cheating on her as long as it's with someone who's deemed important enough to be certified by Twitter (rather than some random nobody) can be left to debate... ;)

Edited December 10, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[Ronin Jackson]

Holy crap... I had no interest in watching that in the first place but now I know to avoid it like it's Walmart on a Black Friday.

[Nashville]

Haven't seen the video yet - but just reading through the lyrics I thought it was funnier than hell. Of course, that's me reading it as a sarcastic send-up of wannabe rock star girlfriends - poking fun at someone whose total life ambition is to marry someone Rich&Famous, then enjoy the lifestyle and immerse oneself in the delusions necessary to maintain it ("Of course he's not going to screw around on me while on tour! He doesn't know those girls - and besides, he loves ME! He texts me goodnight every night; how could that NOT be love? And if he gets horny on the road, we can ALWAYS have FaceTime F**kTime....").

[NoWillToResist]

The thing that kills me is that her voice is nice and the melody/tune is kind of catchy. If the lyrics were better, I could see myself liking it but the lyrics are SUCH a turn off. It's a shame.

 

I wonder what it would sound like if the lyrics were removed and replaced with "mmmm"s. ;)

 

For the video, I wish she had chosen to just have herself sitting on a stool in a cafe or something, playing that song. Her constant preening/posing for the camera was annoying and the dance moves and arbitrary inclusion and removal of other people was weird and distracting.

Edited December 10, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[HalcyonDays]

Kissy heart emoji do you need sexy Facetime

Never worry about a local groupie trying to take a ride

My lover only likes ladies Twitter verified, like me

 

What. On Earth. Is THIS?  These lyrics...I think the direct correlation of singing these lyrics are brain cells dying. The subject material too..wow. Yeah, your rock star hubby will never cheat on you, only be satified with "kissy heart emojis"...Oh honey, you'd better worry about those groupies I tell you...

 

I watched the video for about 30 seconds - muted - and had to stop it, due to second hand embarrassment. And she's 29 years old. Is this for sure? She looks and acts 16 in the video, but I'm going to give 16 year olds the benefit of the doubt that some of them would be offended by these lyrics. I hate to be judgemental, because I cannot sing or dance at all but still...

[Nashville]

Haven't seen the video yet - but just reading through the lyrics I thought it was funnier than hell. Of course, that's me reading it as a sarcastic send-up of wannabe rock star girlfriends - poking fun at someone whose total life ambition is to marry someone Rich&Famous, then enjoy the lifestyle and immerse oneself in the delusions necessary to maintain it ("Of course he's not going to screw around on me while on tour! He doesn't know those girls - and besides, he loves ME! He texts me goodnight every night; how could that NOT be love? And if he gets horny on the road, we can ALWAYS have FaceTime F**kTime....").

Ok - just watched the video, and I stand by my previous remarks. The song is 100% SATIRE, pure and simple, in the same vein as Tracey Ullman's "They Don't Know" back in the '80s.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Nashville

[Ocean Chick]

Well, the lyrics are right up there with her other huge hit, "I'm Humping My Blankie (Cause You're On The Road With Your Groupies)", so there ya go.

[NoWillToResist]

What. On Earth. Is THIS?  These lyrics...I think the direct correlation of singing these lyrics are brain cells dying. The subject material too..wow. Yeah, your rock star hubby will never cheat on you, only be satified with "kissy heart emojis"...Oh honey, you'd better worry about those groupies I tell you...

 

Well, in fairness, this is my translation of the lyrics; I may have misheard. If others are feeling brave and wish to double check, I will make corrections as need be.

 

All I know is that I officially retract my mocking, years ago, of that girl who somehow managed to create a song entirely about lip gloss. The beat was strong, but I remember thinking "WTF? Who writes a song about motherfucking LIP GLOSS?" Anyway, retroactive apologies one-hit-wonder chick from years ago...

 

 

Ok - just watched the video, and I stand by my previous remarks. The song is 100% SATIRE, pure and simple, in the same vein as Tracey Ullman's "They Don't Know" back in the '80s.

 

I would believe it's satire if not for the totally earnest line delivery and video. I would have loved this song if the music video had shown EK watching some young girl display such behaviour, and began mimicking/mocking her with this song (complete with eye rolls). Because clearly I'm a bitter old crank who likes to make fun of the young 'uns with their tunnel vision and their rose-coloured glasses... :D

Edited December 10, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[Timetoread]

I just watched the Rockstar video. ....Um.....I got nothing.

[NoWillToResist]

. ....Um.....I got nothing.

 

Maybe that'll be the title for her second single? ;)

[Nashville]

I would believe it's satire if not for the totally earnest line delivery and video. I would have loved this song if the music video had shown EK watching some young girl display such behaviour, and began mimicking/mocking her with this song (complete with eye rolls). Because clearly I'm a bitter old crank who likes to make fun of the young 'uns with their tunnel vision and their rose-coloured glasses... :D

That's part of what convinced me - it was too over-the-top earnest. That wide-eyed ingenue delivery? The selfie poses? The finger-flutters to the base of the throat? C'mon now - no WAY they're playing that straight.

I'm a smartass from a long and distinguished line of smartasses AND I have two twentysomething daughters, so trust me when I say my mockery detection skills are honed to a sharpness razors only wish they had in their wildest, most fervent razor dreams.

[CletusMusashi]

The worst is yet to come.

You know it's only a matter of time until somebody posts a new video for it using footage of her and Daryl.

[NoWillToResist]

That's part of what convinced me - it was too over-the-top earnest. That wide-eyed ingenue delivery? The selfie poses? The finger-flutters to the base of the throat? C'mon now - no WAY they're playing that straight.

 

I thought her "wide eyed ingenue" schtick was her default expression. She used it all the time in TWD as Beth.

[kikismom]

Ok - just watched the video, and I stand by my previous remarks. The song is 100% SATIRE, pure and simple, in the same vein as Tracey Ullman's "They Don't Know" back in the '80s.

But with Tracey Ullman you know it's satire. Same as Sarah Silverman singing "I'm Fucking Matt Damon".

EK also does many other pictures and poses for press release wearing baby doll dresses and wide-eyed expressions; she must like faking Earnest Airhead all the time.

[PunkyMouse]

Ok folks. I did it. I transcribed the lyrics to the best of my ability:

 

I’m gonna marry a rock star. Gonna move downtown

Loft a bed above his practice space. Guitars hanging all around

He’ll wake up while I’m whispering “babe, it’s almost noon”

We can kiss all day in this tiny room

We like to walk wearing matching black Converse shoes

instead of diamond rings we’re getting new tattoos.

Instead of walking down the aisle it’s a backyard gig

Just an ice cream cake and the people we dig

Oh yeah. Yeah yeah yeah yeah (repeat)

 

I’m gonna marry a rock star. Go to every last show

Nod my head to the bass drum. From the very front row

I help my baby move his gear to the stage from the van

I take pictures on his phone for his Instagram

He’s gonna make it big. He’s gonna sell so many tracks

Through the ups and downs, I’ll be the lover that lasts

Oh yeah. Yeah yeah yeah (repeat)

 

I don’t mind picking up the bill

It won’t be long until

A studio in the hill

A souped up mixing board (?) sometimes he’ll let me record

The little poems I write then we go out at night to the satellite

 

He plays key guitar for so many bands

He’s got talented, tough, rock ‘n’ roll type hands

I feel ‘em on my back, on my neck, on my face

Every chord progression makes my heart just race

When he sees me in the crowd, when he blows me a kiss

I don’t know how life can get much better than this

Oh yeah. Yeah yeah yeah (repeat)

 

I’m gonna marry a rock star

And when he’s touring ‘round the world

I’ll send him unreleased Walking Dead episodes

So on the plane he’s not bored.

He sends a picture of the buildings in each new city

He texts me every afternoon just to say <???>

Before I go to bed, miss you baby goodnight

Kissy heart emoji do you need sexy Facetime

Never worry about a local groupie trying to take a ride

My lover only likes ladies Twitter verified, like me

Yeah yeah yeah (repeat)

 

Gonna marry a rock star.

We got a love you can’t doubt

Wrinkle right up next to each other

Get all the stains out (?)

Oh yeah. Yeah yeah yeah (repeat)

 

END.

 

I think my brain just revolted. I don't know whether to be impressed or horrified that she somehow included "instagram", "Twitter verified", "emoji" and "Facetime" in her lyrics. Dropping TWD in the lyrics though? Damn...maybe that's why she was so upset that her character was killed off? ;)

 

I need to lie down.

 

Oh, holy hell! I... I... just... I have no words.

[weightyghost]

That whole thing took me for a ride. When I first heard she was releasing a single, I thought okay - something like Parting Glass. Folk-Indie stuff she sings on TWD. Her voice fits it.  Then I saw the screengrab of the video of the black/white, the beanie, the loft,  and thought okay, maybe like indie NYC, a little hipster, that's still okay. Then "Rockstar" and was like hmm, okay maybe like Taylor Swift, attempts to be tough, but at least she's owning her music, that's fine. But then... oh that video. That melody. Those lyrics. Not what I was expecting at all. I always thought she had a fine enough voice, but dear lord. There's nothing to that song. The 'yeahs' were obnoxious. The dancing was just....it reminded me of when my friend and I were attempting to make dance moves to Miss Independent in high school. We thought we were cool but it was basically just a lot of hand motions. 

 

Oh, and the lyrics that was missed was from NOWILLTORESIST great translation was "texts me every afternoon just to tell me "I'm pretty"" so. I mean. Cmon Emily. Be the rockstar. Dont date the dirty hipster rockstar that will only date you for your celebrity status? which is what I'm getting from that twitter verified line?

 

I feel so old. Back in my day... music wasn't that much better, but it wasn't that.

[NoWillToResist]

Oh, and the lyrics that was missed was from NOWILLTORESIST great translation was "texts me every afternoon just to tell me "I'm pretty""

 

Thank you! I just could NOT make out what she was saying there. I re-wound (wow, showing my age there) but I just couldn't get it. I eventually gave up, figuring my ears were trying to protect me. And they were, bless them.  ;)

 

It may be the cynic in me talking, but if a guy is texting you the same message every day, I'd start to think it wasn't a genuine sentiment at all. ;) 

 

There's just so much naivete in that song and, since it's coming from a 29 year old woman, it really sticks in my craw.

 

I mean, she's his biggest fan, she works for free, she supports him financially, and she trusts that he won't cheat on her just because he texts her when he's away? And the sum interest that he shows in her and her life is "wanna get off via FaceTime with me?" Not even a preliminary "how was your day, dear?" That's a keeper!

 

*whispers* I think he might be using you, honey.

[kikismom]

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/8396980992/hD28998E6/

[GreyBunny]

Ok - just watched the video, and I stand by my previous remarks. The song is 100% SATIRE, pure and simple, in the same vein as Tracey Ullman's "They Don't Know" back in the '80s.

 

I would hope so because if she's sincere that would be pathetic.  Even so, Weird Al she ain't.

 

 

The 'yeahs' were obnoxious.

 

It could have been worse.  There could have been more actual lyrics.  

 

The video was pretty bad, though the guy dressed up as an ice cream truck driver bouncing around in the back cracked me up.

Edited December 11, 2014 by GreyBunny

[MrsRafaelBarba]

After watching that video, I'd like to advise Emily to keep her  day job.

 

Oh but ummmmmmmmm, yeah...

 

 

[Bongo Fury]

To be fair to Emily, I don't think she has ever accused the show of misogyny or sexism.

 

You missed my point completely. If you are going into something looking for sexism/racism/ageism you can find it in anything. And if you have a preconceived notion of support for someone/something, you can ignore its obvious flaws. I think that is what is going on here, people WANT to see sexism in Beth's death to soften the blow of their favorite red shirt's death. So they are creating sexism where it doesn't exist. And as fans of Beth, they are ignoring her own sexist actions. Let me create an example.

 

The climatic scene in the MSF of TWD was incredibly racist and the TPTB should be ashamed of themselves. In the final confrontation at Grady Rick and Daryl are standing in front while Shasha and Tyrese are left standing behind them. The symbolism is unmistakable. They might have just come right out and said, 'fuck Rosa Parks, niggers get your asses to the back of the bus where you belong and let the white folks do the talking'. How could there be any other interpretation of that scene, it's overt racism.

 

That is an utterly absurd interpretation of what actually occurred, but if your goal is to read racism into that scene, it is at least plausible.

[Portia]

I finally worked up my courage to listen to the song, and . . . y'all. That is the worst song ever written.

[Pete Martell]

You missed my point completely. If you are going into something looking for sexism/racism/ageism you can find it in anything. 

 

Sorry for missing your point.

 

Yes, you can find whatever you want if you look at it a certain way. I don't think that necessarily means the other view is wrong. It just depends on the viewpoint and how it's expressed. For instance, last season some fans felt the show was pushing Carol aside because of her age, and TWD was against women who were over a certain age. I didn't feel that was true, but I couldn't tell them they were wrong, because their own experiences and concerns were playing into that. I don't believe that the show is always sexist or against women. So does that mean my finding "Bethyl" and Beth's death sexist mean I'm desperate to find misogyny in the show? No, not really.

 

I think there's a way to be upset by how a scene or story comes across without accusing the show of blanket sexism or bigotry. And I think that's what some of the people who are upset about the scene are doing.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Pete Martell

[Bongo Fury]

So does that mean my finding "Bethyl" and Beth's death sexist mean I'm desperate to find misogyny in the show? 

 

When you slam the show for sexism, while failing to also slam EK for the sexism in her video, yes, it does indeed show that you are desperate to find misogyny in TWD. In my personal opinion.

[Pete Martell]

I haven't seen her video or listened to her song. To be honest, I don't care about Emily Kinney's music career. I care about TWD, and other than the actress playing a part on the show, it has nothing to do with TWD. There are lots of songs and shows I don't care about that have sexism. I'm not mentioning them either. 

[Bongo Fury]

I haven't seen her video or listened to her song. To be honest, I don't care about Emily Kinney's music career. I care about TWD, and other than the actress playing a part on the show, it has nothing to do with TWD. There are lots of songs and shows I don't care about that have sexism. I'm not mentioning them either. 

 

If you haven't seen the video i was commenting on, and have no interest in it, then why did you comment about my opinion about it? 

[Pete Martell]

I commented because I thought you were saying Emily Kinney had criticized the show for sexism so she was somehow a hypocrite. Otherwise I wasn't sure what her video had to do with Beth or TWD.

[Bongo Fury]

I commented because I thought you were saying Emily Kinney had criticized the show for sexism so she was somehow a hypocrite. Otherwise I wasn't sure what her video had to do with Beth or TWD.

 

Thank you for confirming that you post about things that you don't fully understand. 

[Ronin Jackson]

Okay, the satire speculation inspired me to check out the video to see for myself.  Honestly, it doesn't seem savvy enough to be treading the line between a song that would appeal to the schoolgirl groupie subculture and one that is mocking it.  I mean, something like "What Does the Fox Say" starts out earnest and takes an opportune moment to jump into full on absurdity and satire.  I don't think I buy the argument that this Rockstar song is somehow more clever by never taking that leap.  If it was intended as satire, it should have made that leap.  The fact is there's probably young girls listening to that taking it seriously... I'd say it's a song meant to appeal to them not satirize them.  I'd love to believe there's no way something that absurd can exist, but frankly, things this absurd do exist.  Look no further than the Bring Back Beth petition gaining steam...

[Pete Martell]

If you mean I don't understand what Emily Kinney's music video has to do with Beth or TWD, other than a derail into whether or not fans are somehow hypocrites, fine by me. I'd rather talk about the actual show and character.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Pete Martell

[GreyBunny]

Article: "When Walking Dead Fans Go Wild - Beth’s Fans Get Ugly"

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/dawng4e32fa213/when-walking-dead-fans-go-wild-beths-fans-get-u-16eql

 

Like a child throwing a tantrum when they are refused a toy, these fans are turning against … well, everyone now their prize has been taken from them. And like a child, it seems the more attention their tantrum gets the worse their behaviour becomes. Babysitter Beth wouldn’t encourage that behaviour, and neither should we.

Edited December 11, 2014 by GreyBunny

[duckseason]

From that link:

 

Some weeks ago a group of Carol fans began a charity fundraiser to raise funds for a domestic abuse shelter, to honour the character’s on-screen journey. (carylbyob.tumblr.com) The drive coincided with an episode which explored Carol’s troubled past, and featured a shelter where Carol and her daughter had stayed in an attempt to flee from her violent husband. Carol fans rallied around the drive and over $1,700 was raised and handed over to the charity last week.

 

Suddenly this week, with the media attention on the Beth’s fans successful petition, this charity drive became a bone of contention. Beth fans mocked the amount raised, in comparison to their 40,000 signatures, calling it “miserable and insignificant”. Carol fans were sent anonymous messages telling them Beth had beaten them, as their petition had “won” over the charity drive. They were told if they had been nicer to Beth perhaps Beth fans would have supported the charity and helped them, and worst of all, Carol fans who shared their own stories of abuse were sent mocking and abusive messages from Beth fans, calling them weak.

 

That is some fucked up shit right there.  Don't tell me that killing off some pretend redshirt is sexist when those who are crying sexism are mocking real life women who survived domestic abuse.  You want to find sexism?  Go look in the fucking mirror.  

[TallulahBelle]

Yes, I've seen those posts and just had to shake my head.  The vitriol on tumblr between Caryl and Bethyl fans is out of control (not all Caryl fans and not all Bethyl but certainly enough that's it's not at all hard to find).  Bethyl fans are claiming that the LeBron photoshop was done by a Caryl fan who has created a fake account and is trying to undermine them and of course, the Caryl fans are saying it's clearly a Bethyl-er (oy, those portmanteau's hurt my fingers to type).

 

The harm is that fans of JUST Beth and JUST Carol, who don't give a hoot who Daryl ends up with, are caught in the crossfire.  And if we want to talk about sexism and misogyny - based on tumblr ID's, it's mostly woman on woman internet violence.  For these reasons and to get back on the topic, I am glad Beth is gone. I don't care how badly written it was or OOC (which . . . it was and it wasn't, really, arguments can be made for both sides IMO).  I want the characters on tv to deal with her being gone, not MMB and Gimple.

[Pete Martell]

That's terrible. I've been spending less and less time looking at TWD material on tumblr because of the toxicity of the Daryl Appendage Wars. I'm sorry that something so important was mocked this way. I'm also sorry whoever wrote that article named the person's tumblr, as they will likely get even more hate now.

[ghoulina]

Dear God WTF did I just watch?!

The song: atrocious.

The lyrics: cringeworthy.

The "dancing": embarrassing.

It's like something put together by a bunch of high schoolers, not a 29 year old woman with a professional production crew. And the "Walking Dead" line is opportunistic and tacky.

 

Oh my gosh, are you in my brain??? Give or take a word, this is literally what I was going to post. WHAT DID I JUST WATCH??? I was embarrassed FOR her, and I felt like I was spying on my 13-year-old sister dancing around her room with her friends. Yikes. That was just awful. And I've actually always liked her voice, but she should stick to a capella Tom Waits covers. 

Edited December 11, 2014 by ghoulina

[Timetoread]

I finally worked up my courage to listen to the song, and . . . y'all. That is the worst song ever written.

 

Actually the WORST song ever written goes: "Who dat is? Dat's just my baby daddy!"  So awful that the dj's eventually refused to play it.  This one definitely qualifies for second worst though.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Timetoread

[NoWillToResist]

 

LeBron James, what does he have to do with it? Well, with the increase media attention on their petition came an increased sense of validity in their outrage, to such an extent that they co-opted LeBron’s recent stand against the murders of unarmed black civilians by police officers, for their own cause. Fans photoshopped LeBron’s “I can’t breathe” t-shirt, to say “Bring Beth Back” and tweeted this image out to official Walking Dead accounts, with the enticing declaration that you too could buy this t-shirt to support their cause.

 

I...I can't even.

 

To co-opt an image meant to bring attention to a REAL problem - racism in policing in America - and use it to promote wanting a fictional character to be brought back from the dead? That's a level of tacky I didn't even know existed.

 

Combine that with harassing people who raised money for a good cause...and I just...fuck, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

I know it's not really her job to do so, but could Emily Kinney please speak up on this? I know that I'd be fucking HORRIFIED that people are behaving this way in my name. Christ.

 

That said, does anyone else see the irony in Buzzfeed saying "it seems the more attention their tantrum gets the worse their behaviour becomes. Babysitter Beth wouldn’t encourage that behaviour, and neither should we" after they wrote an entire fucking article highlighting said bad behaviour?

Edited December 11, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[HalcyonDays]

To co-opt an image meant to bring attention to a REAL problem - racism in policing in America - and use it to promote wanting a fictional character to be brought back from the dead? That's a level of tacky I didn't even know existed.

 

That is utterly terrible, to reduce such a serious statement/concern down to something so trivial. It's a character on a TV show. I get worked up over stupid story lines, but the person is not REAL. I know that some celebrities want to maintain their privacy, which I heartily support them for, but maybe this would be an opportune moment for Kinney to tweet something in support of that Carol charity helping victims of domestic abuse and ask fans to donate to that worthy cause. She can even add extra emoji's and hearts and kissy faces to enhance her request. It would be a positive PR move for her, if anything.

 

Showing my age, but this song/these lyrics seem so appropriate right now, just as they were back in 1993...

 

There's something wrong with the world today

I don't know what it is

Something's wrong with our eyes...

 

We're seeing things in a different way

And god knows it ain't his

It sure ain't no surprise...

 

-  Aerosmith - Livin' On The Edge (released in 1993)