Ratings And Scheduling: I Can't Do This Alone

[Pete Martell]

I'm just wondering if the move back to Wednesdays means they aren't all that invested in SPN anymore which made me wonder if this is because they won't be back for an 11th season and they just haven't told the fans yet. 

 

If they weren't invested I think they'd be moving the show to Friday or Monday, or even Thursday. Arrow is still a show they have a lot of support for, may even be building more spin-off shows for, so they wouldn't want to put a show they see as dead or over on the same night. 

[kimrey]

If we're using conventions as an indication, how about the fact they've already signed on for cons throughout the end of the year and the beginning of 2016?  I think that gives a pretty good indication of where their heads are at in terms of the show.  If the guys thought the show was ending after this season, I doubt they'd sign on for more cons, some of which aren't happening until over a year from now.  They know how their schedule works, so they know they will be able to do them as long as that sticks.  If they're not working on Supernatural, who knows what their lives and schedules will be like a year from now.  I know they can back out of cons if they need to, but I doubt they plan on doing that.

 

I'm just saying.  It hasn't been said officially one way or the other if Jared and Jensen have signed on.  It's never really been an official thing thats been announced before, it's just information the boys have shared at cons when the question came up.  I don't think the fact that they haven't said the words "we've signed on for this many more seasons" means they haven't.  Who knows, they could bring it up at the next con.  

 

But from everything I've seen (and I follow a lot of the cast/crew/network people on twitter) there is nothing that indicates to me that anyone involved with the show is thinking it will end this season.  Jim Micheals even made a status not too long ago saying almost exactly that.

 

...and with it being the CW's 3rd highest rated show (only SLIGHLY behind Arrow for second), I don't think the CW will be willing to let it go just yet.

 

In conclusion haha...I think something would have to go terribly wrong for it not be renewed.

Edited January 11, 2015 by kimrey

[DittyDotDot]

But where have you heard officially that they haven't signed the contracts?  We only knew before because it came up at conventions.  Just because they haven't said anything publicly yet doesn't mean they haven't signed on.

 

All I know is their previous announced contracts were only through S10. I guess I haven't officially heard they haven't signed new contracts, but they haven't announced that they have either. In the past, they've always announced it, for instance:

http://screencrush.com/supernatural-season-10-cast/

http://screenrant.com/supernatural-season-9-10-padalecki-ackles/

 

They usually announce Misha and Mark signing on too--those are generally in the spring though. If they've signed on for another year, why wouldn't they announce it? Instead they keep saying they'll sign if the quality continues. To me that's suggesting they haven't actually signed on yet.

 

Doesn't mean there won't be another season, but I'm not gonna bank on it until it's actually announced. TV is too wishy-washy and things that seem like a sure bet get canned all the time at the last minute.

[Aeryn13]

Heck, if you wanna go by quality, I think you would need a time machine to go back and end the show a couple years back.

 

However, I believe this recent move has more to do with giving izombie the best show possible. The CW needs new, fresh hits. Aging shows being dependable performer is all well and good but it`s no investment into the future. Flash has been a blessing for them so why not use it in the hopes of launching another hit? 

 

Meanwhile SPN has proved that it worked with Arrow before. The ratings weren`t that much different from where they are now. It`s largely indepedent of a lead-sin or a specific slot so with 100 finishing its run earlier, it`s a good timeslot to move SPN to.

 

As for more years, I think Season 11 will be the last one (at least very, very hopefully so) and then maybe even a shortened one but that could go either way. In terms of contracts, I think the Js have one for Season 11 at this point but likely with the stipulation of even more time off. And I think compared to previous years, they have about a 40 % reduced screentime already so I`m not sure how an 11th Season would look. Maybe we would get the Highlander phenomenon of "cameo by the lead(s)" in its final Season.

 

Anymore beyond Season 11 I find incredibly unlikely. Unless they were only required to put in like 10 shooting days out of 180. 

[kimrey]

Well, this debate is over haha. Supernatural has been renewed for season 11!

 

http://tvline.com/2015/01/11/renewed-arrow-season-4-supernatural-flash-jane-the-virgin/

Edited January 11, 2015 by kimrey

[Aeryn13]

It`s not a surprise but I`m disappointed now like every year. Hopefully, this will be the last one at least for Jensen. Even the mere possibility of seeing him in a good project is better than the certainty of seeing him wasted.

[DittyDotDot]

Now I will bank on it. ;)

[kimrey]

Ha!  :)

 

I actually can't believe they renewed almost everything.  Some of those shows are getting absolutely abysmal ratings.

[catrox14]

I really hope 11 seasons is the end. I want them to go out on top. I want a real ending for the boys. Do you guys think it is at all possible for the show to continue without Jensen or jared?

Edited January 11, 2015 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

I think going out on top is utterly impossible at this point. IMO you can only do this before you reached a significant part of the bottom. At this point I just pray for no second exact same Suck Song. It`s been five years and I still seethe when I think of it. If the series actually ended with another shitfest like Season 5, I`d probably explode. ,  

[Pete Martell]

Heck, if you wanna go by quality, I think you would need a time machine to go back and end the show a couple years back.

 

If we went by quality, I'd say the show should have ended after season 2, as it's never been the same since. As that didn't happen, I don't mind them going on, because each season has generally had material I like along with material I don't care for.

 

Now that they know they're coming back hopefully that means they can let the story arcs (what there are of them...) this season play out at a decent pace and they can give a good cliffhanger (and a good season premiere! I haven't been thrilled with most season premieres in recent seasons).

 

I have to say I'm shocked at all those shows getting renewed. I wonder if some will just be summer burnoffs, like what BATB has become? And doesn't this also make it less likely they'll pick up any new shows? I was hoping they might do an SPN spinoff, which now seems even more unlikely, but I've seen fans talking about rumors of a Ray Palmer or Suicide Squad spinoff for Arrow. With this many shows coming back that would be a tough task.

[catrox14]

What I mean by go out on top is that they have had resurgence in viewers and a really good premise with Dean and the MoC. I want them to go out on their own terms and not fade away or die from cancellation. I don't want it to become a show where the leads have negotiated so much time off that we end up with a different show. I want an epic ending. I kind of hope now that we know there will be a s11 that maybe Carver resurrects demon Dean.

[Aeryn13]

 

Now that they know they're coming back hopefully that means they can let the story arcs (what there are of them...) this season play out at a decent pace

 

Heh, since I don`t see any set-ups for any story-arcs whatsoever - no myth, no Big Bad, nothing really at this point - I imagine them scrambling to try and stretch out virtually nothing for even more episodes. Maybe they`ll make something up.  

 

I was shocked at all those renewals, too. Some could be legitimately considered bubble shows. I wonder if they`ll give some shortened Seasons and have them share a time-slot. It`s basically what is happening with the 100 now. It will make room in March for izombie.

 

Also, isn`t 2016 when the original contract with the affiliates come up for the CW network? It remains to be seen what happens then. I was shocked back in the day when the WB went under. And they had renewed shows even days before, SPN for Season 2 was one of them.   

[kimrey]

Yeah, I was just reading something about the CW's contract being up in 2016.  So, it'll be interesting to see what happens with that.

Edited January 11, 2015 by kimrey

[catrox14]

Oh I had forgotten about the affiliate renewals. That makes sense to renew as many as possible. What worries me is that Arrow was getting hammered by the CW affiliates that also show basketball and baseball which was often o Wednesdays. t was preempted several times by that. So on SPN will fall e the same problem which I think was a lesser concern for Tuesdays.

[DittyDotDot]

Also, isn`t 2016 when the original contract with the affiliates come up for the CW network? It remains to be seen what happens then. I was shocked back in the day when the WB went under. And they had renewed shows even days before, SPN for Season 2 was one of them.   

 

Oh, that's a good point, I had totally forgotten about that. Hmmm. All the renewals are making sense now.

[SueB]

There was something in the news regarding Tribune (the big CW affiliate) and contract negotiations later in 2015.  So, I think they have made their 2015-2016 commitments regardless of affiliate status.

 

But YAY!!!! Supernatural S11.  I know not everyone shares my opinion but this is EVENT TV for me.  I was afraid after moving from binge-watching to live-watching I'd get tired of the show. But nope, it's been 1 & and half seasons and I'm still glued to the set on SPN night. And immediately anxious for a re-watch. I DO notice that my opinion of the episode almost universally improves on second viewing.  I think first viewing I'm just reacting and second viewing I'm paying attention to the little things.  And for me, SPN does a great job with many of the little things (from character moments to props to music cues, etc...). 

 

So, this is a big thumbs up from me for Supernatural S11.

Regarding how long, I have to say I'd be surprised if they signed Jared and Jensen for anything LESS than 2 years.  As far as I know that's pretty standard.  I would think that if they had signed for something LESS, that would have slipped out at some point.  Because any whiff of "ending" is just not evident.  And Pedowitz wants a spin-off.  The news reports from today seem to indicate he's getting nothing from Carver & Co.  Maybe Carver is too busy with his other project.  Maybe he want to finish his original 3-year plan (this year) and THEN think about new directions.  I don't know. 

 

Regarding Wednesday night - not thrilled but not tearing my shirt.  American Idol may no longer be a juggernaut but it's still a viewer drain.  Still, I think Pedowitz has plenty of faith in Supernatural. To some extent I think he sees it as a workhorse that will perform well and needs no coddling.  I was disappointed that the boys weren't at the TCA's but they really dominated the fall TCA's AND got renewed so... meh. 

[FlickChick]

 

What I mean by go out on top is that they have had resurgence in viewers and a really good premise with Dean and the MoC. I want them to go out on their own terms and not fade away or die from cancellation. I don't want it to become a show where the leads have negotiated so much time off that we end up with a different show. I want an epic ending. I kind of hope now that we know there will be a s11 that maybe Carver resurrects demon Dean.

Unfortunately, I think that additional time off for the boys has already begun. I'm seeing a lot of time designated to guest stars and the other two regulars in the show. I'm also afraid that the MoC story will be basically over in a couple of weeks, leaving us with who knows what for an arc for the rest of the season. Your hope is mine as well - I want an epic ending too. But I want the story that takes us there to be epic as well. Unfortunately, I have little faith in the current staff of writers or our so-called showrunner who has shown very little at that position imo.

[supposebly]

I'm happy for those who are still glad that the show goes on.

 

I'm unfortunately not one of them. I've been live-watching since the end of season 2, so it's been almost 8 years of my life and overall, the quality has just gone down, the excitement has gone down and while I still adore the Winchester brothers, it's been a very long time since my heart was broken by a scene like it was at the end of season 3 or during the fight in Metamorphosis in season 4.

I think it does a disrespect to the story when it ends with the sentiment that I can't wait until it's over. Especially when it is accompanied by repetitive drama and major retcons.

 

Season 8 for me was when I thought, this was not at all worth my time any more and I can't be bothered to re-watch except for the last three of four episodes and even then I just forward through most of it. I still haven't bought any DVD after season 7.

 

I might get season 9, but I find season 8 alternating between boring and outright terrible. Overall, I feel like I've been lowering my standards of what I still find acceptable from this show and at the same time, I experience a high degree of indifference with bad episodes. All not good signs.

[Pete Martell]

Heh, since I don`t see any set-ups for any story-arcs whatsoever - no myth, no Big Bad, nothing really at this point - I imagine them scrambling to try and stretch out virtually nothing for even more episodes. Maybe they`ll make something up.  

 

I get the feeling that Metatron will be the Big Bad in some of the second half (maybe he will finally be killed off), unless it ends up being Crowley and Rowena, or it's another season where the main enemy is the internal conflict of the main characters. 

[catrox14]

I'm holding out my own stupid hopes that Dean becomes the Big Bad.

[Pete Martell]

I think it does a disrespect to the story when it ends with the sentiment that I can't wait until it's over. Especially when it is accompanied by repetitive drama and major retcons.

 

I think it depends on who feels disrespected. If the show had ended the way they'd planned to end season 5 (some type of murder/suicide on top of two straight seasons of excessive fatalistic angst), I would have felt disrespected, yet that's what many fans seem to see as the ideal era of the show. The show has been repetitive since season 3 and has been doing major retcons since season 5, so I think if they were going to end on that basis, they should have ended long ago. 

 

I tend to see it as viewers having the choice whether to keep watching or not. Many have. Others have kept watching, or have started watching, enough to where the CW and Jensen and Jared still want to keep going. I think the time is probably close where they decide to end it. I'd be surprised if it's not next season. 

 

Some of my favorite shows stayed on a year or two too long, sometimes many more than a year or two, but I just take away what I liked and ignore what I didn't, unless the last years are so destructive that I can't do that. For me, that hasn't been the case with SPN - Dean is still pretty much Dean, Sam was heavily damaged such a long time ago that I've learned to live with it, and Cas has never been consistent. So I just take the good with the bad. There are areas I wish they'd fix in these last few seasons (allowing the characters to grow and have a life, better pacing, more energy, shaking things up in a way that doesn't mean blowing up a house or killing off a recurring character), but I'm not really expecting it. But I think there's still enough potential to try. When SPN tries, it isn't like anything else on TV.

[catrox14]

 

But I think there's still enough potential to try. When SPN tries, it isn't like anything else on TV.

 

This is such a great description of the show. It really isn't like anything else on TV right now and for that reason alone I want it to go out on it's own merits. 

[Pete Martell]

Unfortunately, I think that additional time off for the boys has already begun. I'm seeing a lot of time designated to guest stars and the other two regulars in the show. I'm also afraid that the MoC story will be basically over in a couple of weeks, leaving us with who knows what for an arc for the rest of the season. Your hope is mine as well - I want an epic ending too. But I want the story that takes us there to be epic as well. Unfortunately, I have little faith in the current staff of writers or our so-called showrunner who has shown very little at that position imo.

 

I haven't felt like there's a huge increase in airtime for people not named Sam and Dean. I guess there's been some decrease as other short arcs outside of them air (Cas/Hannah, Crowley/Rowena), but the show's format and the fanbase who lash out at anyone who is a threat to the brothers' airtime makes that difficult. I think if we get anything it may be more of things like the episode with Donna and Jody, where they had a number of scenes on their own before Sam and Dean arrived. 

 

I remember the last year of Alice, where Linda Lavin was so sick of the character that she directed episodes and had Alice go away for entire episodes to further her singing career. Lavin instead played a little old lady who rented an apartment to some of the characters. 

 

Alice had enough of an ensemble cast to do this.

 

SPN really doesn't. Cas and Crowley are the only two characters who are allowed to take some airtime away from the brothers, and even that is limited.

[SueB]

I haven't seen a single sign of the boys phoning it in. In fact I'm constantly impressed with how they continue to deliver nuanced performances.

[catrox14]

I don't think the boys are phoning it in at all. I think the writers do.

[FlickChick]

 

I don't think the boys are phoning it in at all. I think the writers do.

Ditto!!!! I believe it will be the poor writing that ruins this show in many fans' hearts. I've been watching since the Pilot, and will until the end, but it's sad to witness the show's decline.

[Demented Daisy]

I'm holding out my own stupid hopes that Dean becomes the Big Bad.

 

I can't even begin to describe how disappointing that would be to me.

[catrox14]

I can't even begin to describe how disappointing that would be to me.

I figure it this way. I was destroyed when they assassinated his character by making him a demon and a serial killer/mass murderer as a human. I would rather he have power and become a badass villain that might be the Big Bad and have something interesting to do than end up dead by Cas or in prison or relegated back to being Sam's babysitter again. I would also really love to see Jensen reprise Demon!Dean with a purpose now. I would settle for Dean being Big Bad adjacent.

Edited January 12, 2015 by catrox14

[rue721]

Yay! I'm unequivocally happy about the renewal. They can keep making the show forever, as far as I'm concerned.

 

The quality's gone down in a lot of ways (though I find it more like the show has been massively uneven from S3-Present, rather than just in the midst of a straightforward downward slide), but there are still many good things about the show, and I actually think there's still potential for more.

 

I agree that the weak spot is the writers -- which I find especially sad because I think the writing in the first couple seasons was remarkably polished and well done. What's strange is that I think there are plenty of good ideas! But not so much good execution of those ideas, imo.

 

I would settle for Dean being Big Bad adjacent.

 

This cracked me up.

 

I think Dean needs to be the Big Bad of the season, because won't Demon!Dean overshadow *any* other Big Bad they could introduce? Who could they introduce who'd be more threatening and/or interesting as a villain?

[Pete Martell]

Ditto!!!! I believe it will be the poor writing that ruins this show in many fans' hearts. I've been watching since the Pilot, and will until the end, but it's sad to witness the show's decline.

 

I think to many fans it's less about writing and more about emotional connection. For instance, some fans would tell you the show was ruined when Cas showed up. Yet I don't really believe every episode since "Lazarus Rising" has been badly written.

 

Other than Knots Landing, it's tough for me to remember any shows that lasted this long that didn't have serious writing declines. I just wish the show was more consistent or focused, more than anything else. 

[catrox14]

Oh it's definitely the emotional connection that keeps me coming back. That said, IMO the writing is problematic when it destroys characterization which is where my emotional connection lies. But this is probably not for this thread so sorry for the diversion.

[Pete Martell]

I agree, but for me the most destructive characterization by far happened years ago (aside from Sam in season 8). So if I was that upset by it, I would have walked away after the end of season 4.

[DittyDotDot]

Well, I'm glad that cast and crew have jobs for another year, but I was pretty conflicted about the renewal. I certainly can't seem to stop watching, but sometimes I really wish I could and the only sure-fire way to accomplish that would be cancellation--which is really more my fault than the show's.

 

I think the problem with the decline isn't that its all been terrible, there's still one or two bright-spot episodes a season and usually at least one moment in every episode that I find appealing even if the overall episode falls flat. Its just that its been so uneven for years now and its getting increasingly frustrating to wade through the nonsense. However, I agree Pete Martell, when Supernatural tries, it's like nothing else out there and I never tire of Misha, Jared and Jensen's behind the scenes antics, so I'm sure I'll be still watching this time next year.

Edited January 12, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[rue721]

I think to many fans it's less about writing and more about emotional connection.

 

I think that at this point many people (including me) watch for the emotional connection and despite the writing.

 

No idea why the writing is such a weak link, though.

[amensisterfriend]

I'm in total agreement with those who are somewhat ambivalent about the renewal, though overall I'd always prefer that a show be renewed for the sake of fans who are eager to keep watching. My key to still enjoying (at least some aspects of!) this show is to keep my expectations comfortably low. It keeps me from being disappointed! And occasionally, like with much of S7, I'm happily surprised by how much I can still enjoy and even mildly obsess over this show. If I genuinely like or love even a few episodes per season and a handful of individual scenes along the way, I now consider my expectations met :) 

Edited January 12, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[Demented Daisy]

The decline for me is definitely in the writing, but I think that's a result of the show not having the focus it did in earlier seasons.  (I'll explain more in All Seasons.)

 

Unless the show does something unforgivable (not sure what that might be), like Ditty, I'll probably be around 'til the end.

[supposebly]

The acting is never the issue for me. I'm often surprised how much they still put out there on the screen after all this time. But that also reinforces my wish that I would like to see them in something else. Good actors should be seen in many things. That's how they get better.

 

I just find the writing has become somewhat lazy and repetitive. Demon!Dean feels like a weird rehash of DemonBlood Sam, with about a similar degree of thinking-it-throughness. I still don't know if it was necessary for Sam to drink all that demon blood at the end of season 5 or whether it was not necessary based on what Ruby said at the end of season 4. Never mind the clumsy addiction angle. I'm not quite clear on that one with the MoC here either.

 

I think they've run out of themes and topics and it shows. The pacing of the seasons has always been pretty bad but it feels like it's gotten worse over the years with squishing season arc resolutions into one or maximum two episodes at the end with fillers in between.

 

I finish watching no matter what, I even watched X-files season 9 eventually but the problem is, with every season, I enjoy it less or I become more indifferent and I don't like feeling like that about my biggest TV obsession beside the X-files. This season and season 9 feel a lot better than season 8 but that is damning with faint praise. All I hope for right now is not getting another season 8.

 

 

No idea why the writing is such a weak link, though.No idea why the writing is such a weak link, though.

 

I think it was really never all that great with some gems here and there but the problem is, when it you start from somewhat lower level, going down is....really going down.

Edited January 12, 2015 by supposebly

[rue721]

I think it was really never all that great with some gems here and there but the problem is, when it you start from somewhat lower level, going down is....really going down.

 

Taking it to the Writers, Directors, and TPTB thread.

[FlickChick]

What brilliant person decided to schedule the return of Supernatural at the same time as the US President's "State of the Union" address. Of course it is preempted and scheduled to run later at night, but who knows if it will be on schedule. Thanks CW.

[Pete Martell]

Didn't it get higher ratings than usual when it went against SOTU last season? 

[catrox14]

What brilliant person decided to schedule the return of Supernatural at the same time as the US President's "State of the Union" address. Of course it is preempted and scheduled to run later at night, but who knows if it will be on schedule. Thanks CW.

I don't think it will be preempted. The CW doesn't air the SOTU. It has been preempted for basketball though.

[SueB]

I'm pretty sure the CW won that bet last year. They call it counter-programming if memory serves. 

[kimrey]

Yeah, it's usually a good thing to go against the address since every other network is airing it, people looking for anything else will stop on the CW.  It usually works in our favor.  Our highest rated episode ever is Route 666 because of this haha

[catrox14]

Yeah, it's usually a good thing to go against the address since every other network is airing it, people looking for anything else will stop on the CW.  It usually works in our favor.  Our highest rated episode ever is Route 666 because of this haha

Wait. WAT??

[kimrey]

Yup.  Route 666 had 5.82 million viewers and a 2.6 in the demo when it was up against the State of the Union address back in 2006.  It still remains the show's highest rated episode and I still laugh about it.

Edited January 16, 2015 by kimrey

[FlickChick]

Well our affiliate in Chicago decided it was time to cover the address, so Chicago is out of the ratings for Tuesday's show.

[kimrey]

As long as it still airs that night, which is looks like it will, it will be counted for the ratings.

[rue721]

Do the ratings even really matter right now? SPN is a known quantity at this point, it's a really consistent performer. Plus, it just got renewed.

 

I think they'll show a new SPN because they're likely showing a new Flash at 8, aren't they?

[catrox14]

Supernatural held steady from the fall finale:  However the Flash was down but that is probably all due to the SOTU address.

 

CW  Supernatural  1.0/3  2.53

 

Supernatural garnered a 1.0 adults 18-49 rating, even with its midseason finale.