S02.E02: The Kindred

[Julia]

If it was some average person off the street, no, that's when imminent danger comes in.  But Irving's been arrested for murder, so whatever rights he had are pretty much out the window (or at least, that's my take--but since my law training consists of John Grisham novels and "Law and Order" episodes, I'm probably wrong).

 

If I understand it correctly, he voluntarily had himself committed. That still doesn't mean he has no recourse if the hospital wants to give him ECT, and a police officer has no right at all to be mandating psychiatric treatment.

[catrice2]

I am not loving the Henry story.  The whole, "son" aspect bores me and I am not blown away by the acting. He is just an unnecessary character to me.

[topanga]

 

I am not loving the Henry story.  The whole, "son" aspect bores me and I am not blown away by the acting. He is just an unnecessary character to me.

It seems like the show wants Crane and Abbie to face a human adversary this season in addition to the supernatural forces of evil they continue to fight.

 

Did we ever find out how Abbie got out of the scary Purgatory Dollhouse? Will we ever find out?

[DearEvette]

I think the Sheriff is the human adversary.

 

Henry, imo, represents another type of foe that The Witnesses have to face, and not just because he is War, but because he is Ichabod's son.  Abbie has already expressed her doubts about Ichabod's resolve when it comes to doing what they have to do.  What is he willing to sacrifice?  Right now, the object of her unease in Katrina because we have already seen that when it comes to her Ichabod just doesn't think. But what about when it comes to Henry/Jeremy?

 

We are already seeing how Katrina is trying to win over Henry.  I don't think her motives for staying with Abraham is just so she can be a mole, I think she is also trying to stay in Henry's orbit so she can salvage him.  And I strongly suspect that when/if she gets freed she's gonna try to convince Ichabod that Henry isn't an enemy to try defeat but rather their son to try to reconnect with.

 

Obviously Abbie will not be on board with this because to her is another Horseman, that's it.  He must go down!

 

So who does Ichabod side with?  The wife he seems to have no rationality about?  Or the partner that constantly tries to keep him on task?

 

So by his very existence Henry is a wedge that can be driven between the Witnesses. And in doing so he is creating dissension, just like he is supposed to in ways small and large.  I think in that sense he is a more than just a human adversary but an emotional and psychological one for Abbie and Ichabod.

Edited October 3, 2014 by DearEvette

[kimberella]

So who does Ichabod side with? The wife he seems to have no rationality about? Or the partner that constantly tries to keep him on task?

I have no doubt he'll side with wifey and Henry. It's not about rationality or the lack of it, it's that what he wants is a priority to him, no matter what. 

 

For me the real question is if Abbie will still go along with whatever he decides again or if she'll have the strength to keep a clear head and do what needs to be done. She knows she can't trust Crane. She knows he'll throw her under the bus to achieve his goals and not regret a thing. Her speech to him about her weakness should mean something. She needs to be the way she was in early S1, instead of this docile puppy, that follows Crane around and keeps getting kicked. It's heartbreaking and only makes her look dumb.

[HalcyonDays]

It seems like the show wants Crane and Abbie to face a human adversary this season in addition to the supernatural forces of evil they continue to fight.

 

Did we ever find out how Abbie got out of the scary Purgatory Dollhouse? Will we ever find out?

 

Deleted scenes maybe. Even Abbie having a flashback possibility, but probably not. There are hints that the show changed some stuff, cut some stuff before the final airing, for whatever reason it may be. Certain things that were supposed to appear, that were shown in behind the scenes pictures, never popped up in the episode. So cuts were made, including how Abbie left the dollhouse.

 

So who does Ichabod side with?  The wife he seems to have no rationality about?  Or the partner that constantly tries to keep him on task?

 

Honestly, I think the show has done this deliberately to show some eventual character growth for Ichabod. There is a nice parallel of Ichabod making poor decisions because of his single-mindedness about Katrina. The parallel is when Ichabod told Abraham about Katrina (in Necromancer when Abraham was turned into the Horseman), and Ichabod redrawing the map/Abbie in Purgatory, and the raising of the Kindred, to save Katrina. There has to be a reason that Ichabod told his "best friend" the DAY AFTER he was dumped. It's not what an honourable person would do and Ichabod is an honourable dutiful person. The fact that the writers has Ichabod actually say the words "The next day, Abraham and I set off on a mission" or whatever it was is telling to me,

 

We know that the writers - who had little time - deliberately planted sentences and words into Henry's dialogue that had double-meanings. I think it's the same with Ichabod. Also with Katrina. At one point she says to Headless "that is not the plan for the Witnesses." Oh really? So what is the plan. And maybe you want to tell those Witnesses what the plan is to be. It was a very odd thing for her to say.

 

So I think overall it is a deliberate attempt to show how Katrina affects Ichabod for the worst. This season, he's going to finally realize it and change for the better. Character growth. And he will be the better Witness and partner to Abbie for it.

[moviewhore]

I am underwhelmed already.  I'm sick to death of Katrina and how her being around makes Ichy into a selfish asshole who will throw Abbie under a bus.  Abbie deserves better as a partner than this douche who will never put her interests above Katrina's. 

 

Tom Mison's beautiful but I was bored shitless during this episode. 

[Crackedmuse]

I am underwhelmed already.  I'm sick to death of Katrina and how her being around makes Ichy into a selfish asshole who will throw Abbie under a bus.  Abbie deserves better as a partner than this douche who will never put her interests above Katrina's.

 

Very well thought out and eloquently expressed. Thank you.

[Snookums]

Also I had to laugh out loud with Ichabod's claim that they needed Katrina because she's a powerful witch, when she hasn't done one thing powerful the entire time we've seen her.

 

 

Seriously! The Katrina I've seen couldn't witch her way out of a wet paper bag. 

 

I'm really getting fed up with the whole Irving plotline, because him being in jail, confession or no, is too ludicrous even for this show to sell me. He says he confessed in order to protect his daughter? His fourteen year old, wheelchair bound daughter. Those two men were not shot, as I recall, or even stabbed or anything that a bombastic DA might be able to sell to a jury as possible for a young girl in a wheelchair to do to two grown, ablebodied assailants. The condition of the bodies and the room should have been far and away enough to prove that Irving's child could not possibly have done it, unless the legal system is suddenly admitting the reality of demonic possession and even then she would get off because the demon did it, not her. So when he said that line about his ex getting him a new lawyer, I was all "good, because your last lawyer must have been, literally, a dog dressed up in a suit that scratched private places while in the courtroom and weed on the judge's desk." 

 

And yes to everyone who pointed out that a sheriff cannot get a random person committed; that is for the court to decide. She also would have no say at all in the course of an inmate's treatement.

[moviewhore]

I'd love it if Katrina was evil all along and was playing Ichy from the start.  That she never loved him.  That would put his obsession/devotion to her into a tailspin.  Do something that will shake up him being all about her.  I find Katrina to be a distraction and I hated how it regresses Ichabod. 

 

The only good thing about SH is Noble. 

[Julia]

I'm not a fan of the Katrina character, but I don't think she's at fault for her husband's tunnel vision. I actually think he's in love with the Katrina in his head and his picture of himself as the man she chose rather than the actual woman.

[Crackedmuse]

The only good thing about SH is Noble

 

THIS! All this and more. Cartoon villains rule!

[HalcyonDays]

I'd love it if Katrina was evil all along and was playing Ichy from the start.  That she never loved him.  That would put his obsession/devotion to her into a tailspin.  Do something that will shake up him being all about her.  I find Katrina to be a distraction and I hated how it regresses Ichabod.

 

This was me from the very start. I was sure - SURE - Katrina was evil, because of the lies and deceit and the shadiness. And let's face it, it would be a hell of a interesting character to play. I also fanwanked that she was the daughter of Moloch, since her shadiness and being fine in Purgatory. Maybe my hopes can still come true!?! There is still time show - do it!

 

I'm really getting fed up with the whole Irving plotline, because him being in jail, confession or no, is too ludicrous even for this show to sell me. He says he confessed in order to protect his daughter? His fourteen year old, wheelchair bound daughter.

 

I always thought this weird, because techically, she wouldn't have the strength to crush a grown man's throat. Also, to reach that high, or pull down an adult male and crush the throat. Also, if she were convicted, she would end up in juvenile jail, since she would be tried as a minor. Irving? Would be tried as an adult, has the strength and capacity to commit said murder and could get life in jail, or even the death penalty. My immediate thought was the daughter would be better off in jail, because Irving could stay free and fight demons and the like. I know, terrible.

 

Maybe that's the true over-arcing theme of the show. If you live in Sleepy Hollow, you will make really stupid decisions concerning your family members, which in turn results in evil or bad consequences.

[DearEvette]

For me the real question is if Abbie will still go along with whatever he decides again or if she'll have the strength to keep a clear head and do what needs to be done. She knows she can't trust Crane. She knows he'll throw her under the bus to achieve his goals and not regret a thing. Her speech to him about her weakness should mean something. She needs to be the way she was in early S1, instead of this docile puppy, that follows Crane around and keeps getting kicked. It's heartbreaking and only makes her look dumb.

 

I agree with this so much.  I love Abbie.  She's the reason I watch.  She is smart and resourceful, this is shown time and time again in the show.  Unfortuantely, I think Abbie's steady good sense and smarts gets lost amongst the more showy aspects of Ichabod's nature.  And I think the writers are doing her a disservice by letting her forgive Ichabod so easily.  She let him off too easily with the map and now again, against her better judgement she gave in to him when it came to the Kindred.

 

Ichabod wanting to resuce Katrina makes sense.  He has only been separate from his wife for something like six months.  So it would seem odd that given the possibility her rescue he wouldn't attempt it. I can't bring myself to like Katrina, but that doesn't mean that I don't understand why Ichabod acts the way he does. I don't like it, but I understand it.  And for the record, I think Ichabod is an arrogant asshole sometimes, sexy blue eyes and a dreamy British accent doesn't blind me to his faults.

 

But Abbie does not have to fall in line.  I need the real conflict to come not just because of Katrina or Henry's machinations, but because Abbie is simply not having it.  I need to see her holding him accountable and I need for it to not just blow over because he cajoles her to his side.

Edited October 3, 2014 by DearEvette

[sinkwriter]

 

I also loved The Kindred's "I got this" look to Abby.

 

That nod the Kindred gave her (like "I got your back, jack"), Crane's credit card rant, and his expression when he realized the pen was chained down... those were my 3 favorite moments from this episode. Good stuff.

[Fosca]

That nod the Kindred gave her (like "I got your back, jack"), Crane's credit card rant, and his expression when he realized the pen was chained down... those were my 3 favorite moments from this episode. Good stuff.

 

I have to admit it's the stuff like this that I watch the show for.  I'm not really that invested in the whole seasonal arc and Watchers and Armageddon stuff; I just want to watch the acting and directing choices (shirtless Headless is one of my favorites--I just was not expecting that at ALL, but in a way it makes perfect sense!) and Crane being snarky about pretty much everything.

[sinkwriter]

The pen thing is something so small, but it really cracked me up. Tom's expression was like, "Are you fucking kidding me with this pen chain? Seriously? You don't trust your customers and you're chaining this pen to the table??" (Only he'd use more formal language, of course. LOL.) It was just this classic look of "this is the very last straw and I cannot believe it" and it made me laugh.

 

I love little moments like that. I know they have to stay focused on the overall witnesses story and Headless and War and Death and all that stuff, and that can be interesting sometimes, but it's the character details that really fascinate me. I wish we could see more of Crane's development in that area, how he slowly learns to adapt to all of modern life's oddities and compares them to how it was "back then." It amuses me.

[wanderingstar]

This paragraph was my favorite part of the NYT recap.

 

And another head-related musing: When Frank told Abbie that the head was stored in a safe-deposit box at a bank, I had a brief image of some future “Storage Wars”-like reality TV show. Abandoned safe-deposit boxes go up for auction. Some unsuspecting schmo buys the one containing the Headless Horseman’s bean. All hell breaks loose, possibly literally. …

 

[jhlipton]

From the recap:

Abbie rushes in tell Crane they've got to go, only to find that Katrina isn't coming with them, thus defeating the purpose of the entire adventure. She gives Katrina a "whuh?" look.

That, along with "Franklinstein" (LOL) was the best part of this ep.

I'm hoping that Irving knows that you don't sign in blood and h faked his signature..

[Indi]

I am underwhelmed already.  I'm sick to death of Katrina and how her being around makes Ichy into a selfish asshole who will throw Abbie under a bus.  Abbie deserves better as a partner than this douche who will never put her interests above Katrina's. 

 

Tom Mison's beautiful but I was bored shitless during this episode. 

 

Except for the Tom is beautiful part, I agree with everything. The thing that gets me is that it looks like the powers that be are sabotaging their own show by focusing even more than ever on the stalest and most awful relationships and characters, even though they knew people disliked. It's mindboggling.

 

I also agree with the people, who dislike Abbie's treatment here, both from Ichabod and the OOC characterization. This supposedly intelligent woman let this asshole throw her under a bus for nothing twice! It's bordering on insulting now. The writing has never been worse.

 

And I think the writers are doing her a disservice by letting her forgive Ichabod so easily.  She let him off too easily with the map and now again, against her better judgement she gave in to him when it came to the Kindred.

 

So much this. He's not that charismatic, he's just an old cranky bloke, who only seems to be able to whine about everything modern and complicate her life. There is no reason for her follow him blindly. Their "bond" is still one-sided and extremely damaging for her. It's gross and no amount of chemistry between the actors can overcome such weak writing. 

 

The one interesting thing coming out of this mess, at least for a possible future plot, is the monster Ichy created. I think he just gave Headless his biggest chance to get his head back. If Death becomes whole again thanks to Ichy, I will laugh forever at this flop Witness. But the real question for me would be, what will the Head do? It imprinted on Abbie, didn't it? What if Death gets contradictory orders from Moloch and Abbie. Now that would be fun.

[M1977G]

 

I also wish the showrunners stopped insisting that their favorite special snowflake is worth the sacrifice of black bodies. Let her shitty husband do that on his own for once.

Yes.  With the entire setup with Abbie & Ichabod, and a relatively diverse cast, this show has had a lot of potential to go against dominant racial and gender patterns in popular culture.  One of the things that I found most important about their relationship, in regards to this potential and to the arc of their story, was Ichabod's unwavering loyalty to a black female character.  It's not every day that a TV show suggests that saving the nation and the world rests in the relationship and fortitude of a white man and a black woman--for a long time, the dominant narrative about this was that such a relationship would actually spell the downfall of American civilization.  But I fear that the gravitation towards more focus on Katrina and Ichabod is a sign that the writers are consciously or (even more likely) unconsciously foregrounding the white characters' love while being willing to sacrifice or disregard characters of color.  That New York Times piece posted above certainly points out that at least some audience members willingly foreground the plight of the white hero and cannot even regard Abbie as a leading character.  I hope others are right in their prediction that Ichabod's wack weakness for Katrina now is to set up his character growth and greater commitment to Abbie and his role as a Witness. I would find it totally unacceptable if our heroine just caves to the will of the leading white male, even if he is the dashing and charming Ichabod Crane.  That would do nothing to advance a story of two Witnesses, and it would do even less to disrupt the ideologies or narrative patterns of white patriarchy, which the show seems to want to challenge but doesn't always know how--or if it really wants to.

[Danny Franks]

So Katrina is still boring, even when prettily displaying cleavage and looking worried. Not doing her any favours really, writers. I get that I'm supposed to think she's brave and plucky, choosing to stay with Headless and pretend to fall for him but... yeah, that's tedious. I don't care because there's no jeopardy. She's not going to end up falling for him, and she's not going to end up dead (or at least I'd be stunned if she did). Taking the one character who was isolated in the first season and isolating her again in the second season seems a really odd choice, to me. 

 

I get that they don't want her all up in the Ichabbie relationship, because it would reduce the amount of fun those two are, but there must be something better than this. It's like, they're trying to raise the stakes by pointing out how much Ichabod cares about Abbie, but it's an empty threat. Because there's no real romantic tension between them, and no sign that Ichabod's feeling for Katrina are wavering. I also don't see the show ever committing to making Katrina turn on Ichabod. So it just ends up being, 'how do we keep Katrina on the show but not have her too involved?'

 

Not a fan of the new captain, because I get annoyed with rational, non-believing, 'I will get to the bottom of your odd behaviour' killjoy characters being added to a show, just to make things awkward for our heroes. I don't want to see Ichabod and Abbie have to dance around and hide from their mean new boss, I want to see them enjoying each other's company, making fun of Ichabod's cantankerous attitude to the modern world, and combat demons and monsters every week.

 

So far, I think the show has lost a bit of the creepiness of its first season. Only two episodes in, but we're mired in the greater story, and that's all we're getting. Where are the monsters of the week, like that Sandman demon, or the possessed tree thing? Those sort of storylines, while tangentially connected to Moloch, do so much to enrich the fabric of this world. Hopefully we can get back to them soon, because all Headless/Henry, all the time, will get old.

 

Also, as has been pointed out, focusing on Ichabod's personal vendettas makes him act more like a dick than normal, which in turn casts a shadow over his friendship with Abbie. Imagine how badly the X-Files would have collapsed if we'd spent every bloody week with Mulder looking for his sister!

 

As for the actual storyline of the episode, there is so much wrong with the idea that Ichabod thought raising a monster to fight a monster was the right thing to do, that it boggles the mind. The moment that became a possibility, everyone knew it was a bad idea. Even Ichabod, but he shouted down the Mills sisters because he wants Katrina back. Sure, the Franklinstein's Monster (love that, by the way) hasn't turned on them yet, but I don't see how having a demon made of random corpse parts and another demon's head running around Sleepy Hollow can possibly be an improvement on their situation.

 

As a sidenote, it saddens me so much that the idea of Abbie and Ichabod in a relationship is something that even warrants mention as being unusual, to so many Americans (I say Americans, because while I'm sure there are people in all cultures who frown upon such interracial relationships, it seems to be peculiarly American that this is a taboo subject). It's not that I even want them together, but I just don't get why two attractive people being attracted to each other should be unsettling for anyone. And anyone who doesn't think Nicole Beharie is stunning and worthy of any man on the planet, is frankly crazy.

[ABay]

I'm not sure who your last paragraph refers to, Danny Franks, but for my part I've become a virulent anti-shipper since fandom hit the internet. Not just fandom as in those of us gathered here and in other fannish spaces, but the entertainment websites that pander to the shipper parts of the fan community, like TVLine with its semi-regular column called "ShipShape".

 

In the years BI (before Internet), it didn't bother me so much* but now I feel like there is no space anywhere to just like a show and want to discuss it without being mired in shipper drool. It just devours fan spaces. I now long for shows that manage to show men and women working together and being friends without them ending up in Twu Wuv. WTF is wrong with friendship? I loved Eureka because Carter and Jo were never a couple and I am now and will forever be in denial about the last few minutes of Warehouse 13 because I loved Pete and Myka so much as partners. At least they held off until the very end of the series and had none of the ghastly will-they-won't-they tripe before that. I dislike Shawn and Jules on Psych because it ate the show, which is what a romantic plot tends to do, but at least it didn't destroy Shawn & Gus's friendship. I was OK with Michael and Fiona on Burn Notice because...well, I'm not entirely sure, but their relationship was so different it might be unique.

 

But I digress.

 

And so...I deeply appreciate that Sleepy Hollow presents Ichabod and Abbie as it does.

 

*Although I am still pissed off about Mulder & Scully. That was right on the fan/net boom.

[Danny Franks]

I'm not sure who your last paragraph refers to, Danny Franks, but for my part I've become a virulent anti-shipper since fandom hit the internet. Not just fandom as in those of us gathered here and in other fannish spaces, but the entertainment websites that pander to the shipper parts of the fan community, like TVLine with its semi-regular column called "ShipShape".

 

It's not the shipping or lack thereof that bothers me, it's the idea that some people believe the idea of a mixed race couple to be wrong. The fans who don't want them together because of story or character reasons, or because they just don't care for romance stories? Fine. I can understand that, and I might even agree (not made my mind up yet). The fans who don't want them together, and indeed don't want Abbie to be considered a lead character, because Nicole Beharie has more melanin in her skin than Tom Mison does? Fucked. Up. But for what it's worth, I haven't seen anyone one this site who has espoused that view.

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's go ahead and get back on topic here, folks; this is the episode discussion topic for Season 2.Episode 2 The Kindred. Thanks!

[Happytobehere]

A rewatch of the episode highlighted something I did not catch upon live viewing. As much as I hated the new captain. On rewatch, she is actually kind and supportive of Abby (her compliments about getting into Quantico, making sure Abby understood her sanity comments were not directed at her, overlooking Abby allowing Jenny access to the archives). Her disdain is the for the rest of the gang. While this might mean she is in league with the forces of evil, it could simply be that having interacted with Abby as a child and seen what her life was like, she might have a soft spot for her and is in her own wrongheaded way trying to separate Abby from those she believes to be a negative influence upon her.

The more I see Katrina, the more I am troubled by her stay in purgatory without any side effects. Was she kept sane because of Moluch's promise to Headless, or is there more to the story? This is not a shipper issue because as I noted upthread, I think old Icchie is a d..k, who is unworthy of the awesome sauce that is Abby. I think he and Katrina are a perfect match.

Seeing as Headless and War are connected to Ichabod, I wonder if the remaining horsemen will have a connection to Abby. Or will Ichabod and his connection with Katrina provide the source material for the four horsemen. I wonder if Ichabod will ever take note of the fact that two of the forces of evil that threatens humanity are both connected to him via his involvement with Katrina.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Happytobehere

[topanga]

 

On rewatch, she is actually kind and supportive of Abby (her compliments about getting into Quantico, making sure Abby understood her sanity comments were not directed at her, overlooking Abby allowing Jenny access to the archives). Her disdain is the for the rest of the gang. While this might mean she is in league with the forces of evil, it could simply be that having interacted with Abby as a child and seen what her life was like, she might have a soft spot for her and is in her own wrongheaded way trying to separate Abby from those she believes to be a negative influence upon her.

But she made some down-right mean comments to Abbie about her mother and her childhood. How was she being supportive?

[HalcyonDays]

Her disdain is the for the rest of the gang. While this might mean she is in league with the forces of evil, it could simply be that having interacted with Abby as a child and seen what her life was like, she might have a soft spot for her and is in her own wrongheaded way trying to separate Abby from those she believes to be a negative influence upon her.

 

Based on some comments I have read elsewhere, I am wondering if Reyes is going to be Abbie's Guardian Angel. Angels haven't appeared on the show yet. We have demons, need some angels. If Reyes is trying to block out any negative influences to Abbie (Jenny, Crane, whoever), then it would make sense if she's the Guardian Angel. She DID say she helped out the Mill's family when Abbie was a kid.

 

Seeing as Headless and War are connected to Ichabod, I wonder if the remaining horsemen will have a connection to Abby.

 

I would like this and it would make sense. The first two are intimately connected to the Crane's. Once they delve into Abbie and Jenny's backstory, then the next two Horseman should be connected to Abbie. We've just haven't seen the characters yet, I suspect.

[ABay]

The way she treated Irving rules Reyes out of angel hood, IMO. Maybe she's the next horse(wo)man. It could be Irving, but I think he'll be the new Andy.

[lucindabelle]

I enjoyed the episode but I too miss he monster of he week. Hope it comes back soon. The best parts of the show are definitely the off the wall bits, like headless making dinner, icky ranting at the bank teller.

[johntfs]

The way she treated Irving rules Reyes out of angel hood, IMO. Maybe she's the next horse(wo)man. It could be Irving, but I think he'll be the new Andy.

 

I don't know.  Utterly ruthless in the pursuit of good sounds very much like an angel.  Angels aren't exactly like Roma Downey or Michael Landon.  Whenever God wanted to nuke a city or slaughter the firstborn, He sent an angel...

[formerlyfreedom]

We have a brand new shiny topic that you can discuss further the idea of the background of the show, the 'Twistory' if you will. Some posts were moved over there, so take further discussion on The Mythological Twistory of Sleepy Hollow over there!

[catrox14]

Supernatural's angels were mostly dicks, so that is precedence in the genre

[millennium]

The show is just feeling repetitive now. Feels like its running out of steam

This. Yup.

The novelty has worn off. If the show's to survive, it will need an actual plot that consists of something more than conveniently occultizing every significant figure in colonial American history.

I'm not sure who your last paragraph refers to, Danny Franks, but for my part I've become a virulent anti-shipper since fandom hit the internet. Not just fandom as in those of us gathered here and in other fannish spaces, but the entertainment websites that pander to the shipper parts of the fan community, like TVLine with its semi-regular column called "ShipShape".

In the years BI (before Internet), it didn't bother me so much* but now I feel like there is no space anywhere to just like a show and want to discuss it without being mired in shipper drool. It just devours fan spaces. I now long for shows that manage to show men and women working together and being friends without them ending up in Twu Wuv. WTF is wrong with friendship?

Yes! Yes! And fucking yes!

Best part of this episode?

The uncredited shout-out to the legendary H.P. Lovecraft in the spell to raise the Kindred. The first couplet,

That is not dead which can eternal lie.

And with strange aeons even death may die.

is from Lovecraft's short story "The Nameless City," in which it appears as a quote from the Necronomicon. The same lines are repeated in his more famous story, "The Call of Cthulhu."

Btw, don't let the name fool you -- there was no shipping in Lovecraft.

[millennium]

I just don't understand how/why this show has done such a terrible job with the Katrina/Ichabod lovestory.   I watched the pilot of Forever the other night and in about 3/4 flashbacks they had me awwing over the 60 year old love story between the main character and his long-dead wife.   It was just done so beautifully.  Their first meeting, a few of their conversations, etc.  They just felt real and connected.  I don't think it was because the actors had better chemistry unlike TM and KW, although I do think it was better, or because TM and NB have better chemistry than their leads, because, again, it was only the Pilot. It's just that they managed to make me *feel* for that back love story and that's something that in 15 episodes, I've yet to feel or believe about Ichabod and Katrina.   I just feel the SH writers haven't written anything real, created a mood, I don't know how to put it, with K/I, but whatever it is, they just haven't done it.   Although, as Forever showed, it clearly *can* be done.

 

The recent incarnation of Spartacus pulled it off, too.   Spartacus's wife appears only in the first episode, as I recall (other than one or two flashbacks later), but his devotion to her is present throughout the series, to the very end.

 

It worked, I think, because there wasn't another female co-star in any position to become a serious love interest for Spartacus, so the storyline was able to remain focused. 

Edited October 9, 2014 by millennium

[millennium]

I don't know.   I just think Abbie's too much of a distraction (as far as the Ichabod/Katrina storyline goes).  

[topanga]

 

 

I disagree that it's that, though, because Abbie and Ichabod weren't intensely established in the Pilot that much more than the guy in Forever and his female "partner."   And that was my point.  You could literally correlate the two.  The only difference is that in SH, Katrina is still very possible to come back because she's only in purgatory, not dead/dead.   Two attractive leads brought together, backstory of this love and I bought it completely with about 2 minutes (maybe?) of screen time on Forever and I didn't in the Pilot between TM and KW, and she's a main cast member.   My point is that it CAN be done, and SH writers just haven't done it.

I don't know.   I just think Abbie's too much of a distraction (as far as the Ichabod/Katrina storyline goes).

I agree that Abbie has become somewhat of a distraction for the Ichabod-Katrina epic love story (rightttttt.....), partly because Abbie and Crane have a more natural and intimate friendship than Crane and Katrina do. But this wasn't always the case. In the Pilot, Crane and Abbie bantered and shared a similar dry humor, but their relationship was founded on the reality of Abbie thinking Crane was crazy but also on the possibility of Crane being able to explain some of the weird things happening in Sleepy Hollow. Crane was presented as a married man from the very beginning, and his friendship/partnership with Abbie was not introduced as a potential love triangle.

 

I think that Ichabod and Abbie's friendship wouldn't be so remarkable and wouldn't be compared to Crane's marriage if Crane and Katrina's relationship revealed just a little more warmth and intimacy between the two characters. And it's not from lack of trying. Both the writers and the actors have created scenes with long kisses, longing stares across crowded rooms, and heartfelt declarations of undying love. I don't know why their efforts are largely falling flat. Tom Mison and Katia Winter are beautiful, talented, and focused actors, so I can't figure out why they aren't believable as passionate lovers who will (literally) go to the ends of earth to save the one they love.

 

My overall point is that I don't think Sleepy Hollow was created for viewers to start rooting for a Crane-Abbie hook-up at the expense of Crane's marriage--or Katrina's life. It's something that just kinda happened. (And I know that everyone doesn't share this opinion. I'm simply talking about what's trending within the fandom).

[cheyz]

I think the new captain is acting like a real life new captain. Seriously, a mental patient wandering around a police station with a bag of guns? A history professor consultant? She thinks Orlando is faking, that is why she was so hard on him. Even Abbie showed up late with no excuse and blew off roll call.

 

She has to come in tough and then soften once she knows who she can trust. Headless bodies to her means drug cartels, not something supernatural.

 

Katrina is not the only one isolated. Ichabod and Abbie are isolated from all their support crew: Jenny is in jail, Frank is in the sanitarium, Henry is evil, even Cho is stuck in purgatory (and his own show).

 

The writers have more or less cleaned up the cliffhangers from last season, now they are setting up season two.

 

Katrina and Ichabod are from a different time, when family meant everything. It's going to take more than a handful of episodes for them to give up on Jeremy. He is their son, the only one they will ever have. Not only do they feel guilty, but they haven't had a long period of seeing him go bad and trying to fix him, let alone trying tough love. They aren't just going to write him off.

 

Even though Ichabod only recently found out Katrina is a witch, she is the one who put him in a 200-year sleep to save his life. That does make her a powerful witch. He hasn't had time to realize she hasn't done anything powerfully witchy since (aside from survive purgatory).