The Mythological Twistory of Sleepy Hollow

[Iamsweetdee]

See, this is where these apocalypse shows begin to lose me. This one is based on the Book of Revelation as stated explicitly in the show. Well, what are they trying to stop it for? It's supposed to happen. It'g going to happen (for those who believe).  For Christians, they want it to happen. So, Icy and Abbie are kind of getting in the way. Now maybe somewhere along they line they mentioned that this isn't the "right" one, so they need to stop this one and then the correct End of Days will happen, but I don't remember. 

[topanga]

See, this is where these apocalypse shows begin to lose me. This one is based on the Book of Revelation as stated explicitly in the show. Well, what are they trying to stop it for? It's supposed to happen. It'g going to happen (for those who believe).  For Christians, they want it to happen. So, Icy and Abbie are kind of getting in the way. Now maybe somewhere along they line they mentioned that this isn't the "right" one, so they need to stop this one and then the correct End of Days will happen, but I don't remember.

Yes. This has bothered me since the beginning of the show. If Crane and Abbie believe the book of Revelation, and it seems they do, then the things the Bible prophesies are going to happen regardless of what the Witnesses do to try to stop it.  I've been in discussions where people have debated the certainty of prophesy and fate. But for people who believe the Bible, the things written there are supposed to be absolutely certain.

[Julia]

The christian cosmology on this show is completely cracked. Their Purgatory isn't Purgatory, they bury witches in churchyards with grave stones, evil can trick your soul away from you without your consent, the dutch reform church had a Madonna statue...

 

I don't know that you can judge by what any actual christian tradition says. They seem to be actively avoiding it.  

[formerlyfreedom]

A topic that discusses the creative little twists and tweaks that the show does, compared to our own known history; because as you know, the famous saying IS "History is written by the victors." Also included is all the bits of the back story of the Book of Revelations, as well as Washington Irving's The Legend of Sleepy Hollow.

 

 

[HalcyonDays]

Honestly, I think the show is just taking the well-known aspects of Christianity, and twisting it to suit their plot. Like the cursed beads buried with Reverend Knapp, or that fact that I read elsewhere that apparently witches are condemned in the Bible. Something like that. So to have the character of Katrina (apparently) and her Coven working to destroy evil, goes completely against what the actual belief is. I like that they are taking bits and pieces and just messing with it to death.

 

At the same time, they research their history. I mean, I've had to look up half of the stuff the show mentions, because I know little about the Revolutionary War (this show and TURN made me interested).

 

I know we like to laugh at how Crane seems to know everyone and name drops like crazy, but it's not really that strange to me. People like Benedict Arnold, Von Steuben, Benjamin Franklin, Washington of course, Sam Addams, Paul Revere interacted together a lot. They are the founding fathers. They sat in a particular room at Independence Hall (in Philly) together and wrote the Declaration of Independence. For various battles during the Rev War, these eventual famous figures came together in the same place and personally interacted. Crane being there, or somehow involved is not strange.

 

For example, this episode, Crane name dropped Baron Von Steuben, and said he trained under him. Well, this makes sense. Crane was at Valley Forge. The entire regiment wintered at Valley Forge. Washington was there at the same time, as he was leading the army. Baron Von Steuben was also there at the same time. Doing what you ask? This: "During the winter of 1778–1779, Steuben prepared Regulations for the Order and Discipline of the Troops of the United States, commonly known as the "Blue Book". Its basis was the training plan he had devised at Valley Forge."

 

So three different well-known historical people and/or events that are name dropped at different times by Crane. It seems overkill and too much at times, but the connection makes perfect sense. It's like playing Six Degrees of Ichabod Crane.

[green]

Actually not all of these men mentioned above knew each other personally.

 

I don't think Paul Revere ever met any of the other named men then Sam Adams.  He was turned down for a commission in the continental army and served instead in a Massachusetts militia unit in the New England area only and was never in any of the "big name" battles of the revolutionary war.  Never went to Philadelphia either.

 

Von Stuben knew Ben Franklin (who wrote him his letter of introduction while they were both in France) and Washington but none of the others.

 

Arnold wasn't a delegate in Philadelphia.  He was off leading his own small command early in the war.  He and his men (including Ethan Allen's Green Mountain Boys) captured Fort Ticonderoga, invaded Canada etc.  Later he served under General Gates at Saratoga.  He and Washington both had egos though.  Two A Types for sure.  Arnold was the better battlefield general and Washington the better strategic leader.  They were both considered the equal twin heroes of the war right up until Arnold's decision to turn.

 

Arnold was screwed at the battle of Saratoga by the military politics when he helped save the American side from a complete disaster and turned it into America's biggest victory to date which lead directly to the French alliance.  Yet Gates, who almost caused a major defeat in that battle, got the credit and Arnold wasn't even mentioned in the dispatches.  He had been continually passed over for promotions as well.  He was badly wounded in that battle and when at home recovering and stewing in his own jealous juices he met a loyalist woman he would later marry and ended up contacting British Major John Andre and the rest is history as they say.

 

And when I refer to their military abilities I tend to think of Arnold as the George Patton of the day.  Aggressive, daring and tactically brilliant.  But always sticking his foot in his mouth and ruffling feathers.  Washington, also personally brave, was more the Eisenhower type "working well with others" and taking the long view strategic approach while holding together the armies under him.  Arnold melted down from the wrongs done him but Washington held on to the final goal.  Otherwise American history books would have been talking about both men as pretty much equal heroes of the Revolution.

 

Good choice of Arnold for the Judas coin storyline since it was a weakness already within him that lead to his fall from grace.

Edited October 8, 2014 by green

[HalcyonDays]

I guess my point was that the show has Crane mention many times these now famous historical figures that he knew, and many people think it sounds odd or convenient that he knew these people, but I think in some cases, it isn't.

 

I was in Philiadelphia for a couple of days this summer (I'm not an American) and in walking the few blocks around the historical district, I viewed the ruins of Washington's house, went into Betsy's Ross's house, viewed the ruins of Benjamin Franklins house, saw that grave of Franklin, went into Independence Hall, into the room where the founding father's all sat together to draw up their independence documents, etc. So for me, it's not a stretch to say that if Crane himself just happened to be in Philiadelphia for a certain period of time, he would probably have come across these people (since he was Washington's darling). Washington and Ross both belonged to the same congregation (Christ Church), so of course would have met.

 

So again, it's not a stretch for me to imagine the show writing the scenario like this: Washington, accompanyed by some other people, including Crane, go visit Betsy Ross, the most talented seamstress in town and ask her to sew a flag. Crane and Ross's eyes meet and boom, they are attracted to each other, therefore explaining Crane saying he knew/dated her.

 

Anyway, many of them did interact at various times, so having Crane knowing them as an extension of that surprisingly isn't that farfetched, but to us it might seem to be.

 

And when I refer to their military abilities I tend to think of Arnold as the George Patton of the day.  Aggressive, daring and tactically brilliant.  But always sticking his foot in his mouth and ruffling feathers.  Washington, also personally brave, was more the Eisenhower type "working well with others" and taking the long view strategic approach while holding together the armies under him.

 

green, are you a historian or just someone who loves history? I've read that also about Arnold. Also that his arrogance and demand for being recognized and promoted angered him and pushed him to the other side. Too much pride I guess.

 

I wonder if the show is going to eventually reveal that Sleepy Hollow is some sort of pinpoint/coming together point for all evil. Like the Hellmouth in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Everything evil seems to happen around the town. Also, when are angels going to make an appearance. Someone else mentioned that angels from the Bible tend to cause bad things to happen also, so it will be interesting to see SH's take on it.

[topanga]

I wonder if the show is going to eventually reveal that Sleepy Hollow is some sort of pinpoint/coming together point for all evil. Like the Hellmouth in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Everything evil seems to happen around the town. Also, when are angels going to make an appearance. Someone else mentioned that angels from the Bible tend to cause bad things to happen also, so it will be interesting to see SH's take on it.

Great points. And that makes me think that Captain Reyes knows more about the supernatural aspects of Sleepy Hollow than she lets on. We don't know Lori (is that the mom's name?) Mills' entire story yet, nor do we know anything about Abbie and Jenny's father. But if their mom repeatedly talked about seeing demons, it's very likely that she had encounters with actual demons. And I think Reyes was smart enough to recognize that. Much like she said that Irving being in Tarrytown might be the safest place for him.